>Snyder Superman literally only has 43 lines of dialogue in BvS
>there are still people on /co/ willing to defend Snyderhttps://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/4f9ivz/superman_only_has_a_total_of_43_lines_of_dialogue/
Jesus was it really that bad?
I feel bad for Henry
People in costumes talking is silly.
Wow, that's really fucking shameful.
>>81983376
All I hear in my head is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1o3koTLWM when I see that pic
>>81983603
He should resign and appear on CW shows.
It's really sad because he could probably pull it off under a better director
>>81983376
Batman is the main character, of course Superman doesn't have as many lines
Snyder didn't make Batman V Superman, he made Batman: featuring Superman
Batman vs [Entry Missing]
>>81983376
Doesn't surprise me, the movie is about Batman, with Superman as a plot device.
>>81983727
Have him cross companies and play Hyperion.
>>81983376
How many lines did Batman have? Or, say, Iron Man in the first Iron Man movie?
How many lines did Supes have in MoS?
What sort of autist judges the amount of lines a movie character has?
I swear, its very fascinating how much greater scrutiny capeshit undergoes than most movies. Very intriguing that someone who could give zero shits about a movies production, director, rumors, reshoots, budget, etc. all of the sudden becomes an expert on those things when capeshit is the subject line.
By intriguing and fascinating, I mean asinine and ignorant
Nothing in the superman "character" requires him to talk the character is all action but it doesn't matter the character and the movie sucks.
>>81983376
i was going to argue that even silence acting can be a good thing, but looking at these lines...they are really short as well
i still think the movie is decent, but damn..
>>81983830
Obviously, the amount of lines a character has is relative to the film's overall quality.
Hawkeye has fewer than sixty lines in "Avengers: Age of Ultron", and therefore the movie sucks.
Batman V Sir Not Appearing in this film
>>81983753
It's over, he's tainted like Routh was.
>>81983830
Only DC capeshit because DC characters are more iconic.
>>81983830
>What sort of autist judges the amount of lines a movie character has?
When the character is in the title and is fucking Superman?
Everyone with sense.
>>81983830
BvS is fractally awful. All that's happening is people have grown bored of addressing the surface level problems and are starting to find problems at the every level of the production and story.
>>81984096
>factually
And now it's not, kinda dumb of you to say that really.
>>81983832
Half of superman's fucking character is the short pithy noble sentiments or simple moral of the story stuff.
Him having so few lines of dialogue on top of having to say LOL funny stuff and DEEP stuff is a deathblow.
But the whole movie centers around him and his actions so who gives a shit?
>>81984142
It is pretty fucking bad though.
>>81984142
Fractally.
>"No one stays good in this world."
This was a line they thought was acceptable for Superman to say.
>>81983376
43 lines isn't that bad...
But Snyder a shit.
>>81984211
It was actually pretty good.
>>81984220
I think Superman's parents are written far worse than he is.
>>81984058
By this logic all silent films are horrible.
>>81984264
I mean, if you're retarded or entertained by garbage, sure.
>>81984220
It was a moment of weakness and it's not like that was the last line he said even in birthright it was worse he was going to run away while metropolis was being invaded before Lois slapped his shit
>>81984096
Snyder, it's all Snyder. They have no real comic guys making themselves heard.
>>81983832
>Nothing in the superman "character" requires him to talk
Except the whole idea of his persona as a public hero and role model. People love Superman because he helps people. He's a superHERO, not a crimefighter. He's considerate, charismatic, and personable. That's as integral to his character as the S on his chest or the dead planet. He's not just the cape, he's a good fucking PERSON.
>>81984244
>43 lines isn't that bad for a title character in a movie over 2 hours long
>>81984220
>context is everything
A line spoken at his lowest, when it seemed that all of his efforts to save this world is futile.
>>81984293
>all silent films
>all
>all of them
>every one
>not having lines of dialogue
Are you illiterate?
>>81984293
Most silent films have dialogue.
And shit it's not as though this is the one overriding reason why the movie was bad. At this point we're just listing symptoms. BvS is a huge confluence of errors and you think pointing out that any one of them isn't so bad in some other context is a valid defense.
>>81984293
they may not have audio, but they still have lines you know
>>81983376
How many did Batman get?
>>81984142
Not that guy but fractally and factually are two different words.
So are no and now, by the way.
>>81984293
You know silent films have dialogue right?
>>81983376
>Character has fewer lines than he should.
>Going after the actor and not the writers/director.
>>81984455
That was a Typo but whatever.
>>81984432
Twice or Thrice most likely. Dude was chatty.
>>81984392
>this movie is bad
But it's not.
>>81984582
When Batman is more chatty and Superman you know something is fundamentally wrong
>>81984487
Welcome to the internet, where people's field of view extends to their nose on things they bitch about and who they bitch to.
>>81984487
>Going after the actor
He isn't. Read the OP post again
>>81983376
This is the biggest thing. Cavill clearly has the charisma and charm necessary to play Superman, but Snyder doesn't give him a chance to focus it.
>>81983727
>and appear on CW shows.
Flash is the only consistently good one on there right now. I'd take a million Snyderverses over OrganicMan and Mericle getting their hands on Supes.
>>81984345
>Except the whole idea of his persona as a public hero and role model. People love Superman because he helps people. He's a superHERO, not a crimefighter. He's considerate, charismatic, and personable. That's as integral to his character as the S on his chest or the dead planet. He's not just the cape, he's a good fucking PERSON.
That's Christopher Reeve's Superman.
Golden Age Superman wasn't like that.
Silver Age Superman wasn't like that.
They were both dicks.
>>81984487
>>81984622
>didn't even read the OP
>>81984651
iZombie is better than Flash m8
>>81984704
It's where all the good white women went.
>there are still apologists, even in this thread, trying to convince everyone that this film was anything but shit
Please, go back to /tv/ where you belong.
>>81984455
Good to no.
>>81984736
Those apologists can actually defend their position though.
>>81984651
>I'd take a million Snyderverses
No.
>>81983727
He wouldn't get paid anything like as much for that. Even if he earned $250,000 an episode and was one of the lucky few whose series ran and ran, he'd only be making a maximum of around $5.5m annually from his acting - and he'd have to be on set, every day, five days a week, thirty weeks of the year, for whatever hours are necessary. It's not usually as bad as movie hours - where you've got a couple of weeks to do everything - but if you've got to film the bulk of an episode in one week, there's still a huge pressure to get it right.
The mean SAG-AFTRA salary was around $50k a few years back; that includes movie and tv actors. The median is probably more like $1,000 annually - one thousand dollarydoos. Before tax. Because most actors don't earn shit from their acting work, and do it because they enjoy acting. At the top end, yes, there are those earning seven or even eight figures through various deals - and especially when you consider they're supplementing that with non-acting work like modelling or brand association - but they are the extreme minority. Even big names you've heard of probably aren't getting a huge amount for appearances - Samuel L. Jackson reportedly works for scale just to keep himself in work (which is something a lot of actors like to do), though I imagine he also takes a big fat paycheck when he's offered it.
It's true some big names also get closer to $1m an episode for live action tv, but again - these are valuable names working on valuable projects. It would be extremely surprising if anybody were to offer Henry Cavill that much - he's not a proven headliner by any standard and his acting skills are... debatable. He's more likely to be on the Girls Scale - about $150k/episode if they think he's good enough, $15k to $25k if they think he isn't. There's no real inbetweens.
>>81983827
Imagine a 90-page average movie script. You get ~25 lines of dialogue/page; a principal usually has the lion's share of that. RDJ certainly did.
>>81984840
A million Snyderverses is infinitely superior to any form of Guggenverse. Arrow S3/4 are complete abominations that make BvS look like TDK or TWS.
>>81984211
it was great
>>81984785
They really can't.
I've seen the most hilarious arguments parroted by them over and over, and not one of them actually supports the film being good. At best, they can successfully argue that there is a lot of symbolism, which is apparent to anyone with eyes.
>>81983878
Ensemble cast of like 7 people is different than a movie with about seven characters who actually matter.
>>81984345
>He's a superHERO, not a crimefighter.
He's a superhero who is a crimefighter.
>>81983830
That's kinda missing the point something fierce. A common criticism of the film, from the beginning, has been that Superman doesn't get much character development in favor of just having him quietly mope his way through scenes.
(Just for comparison, this is just over double the lines that Aurora has in Sleeping Beauty - a character in a film of half the length, who spends most of it in a coma).
>>81984866
>25 lines per page
You must read scripts on some big ass pages.
>>81985018
They actually can. I've seen people who tried to claim
>Batman's motivation doesn't make sense
>Lex's motivation doesn't make any sense
>Superman hates being Superman
>the Martha doesn't make any sense
And these are kinda the main arguments you get when you're dealing with BvS but that's not a problem with the movie, it's a problem with the audience.
>>81985018
This really.
I mean I have nothing against people who liked the movie, everyone has their taste and I suppose the action is decent enough to enjoy with popcorn.
But personally when I want to see bi fights with tons of Jesus symbolism and a dark outlook, I'd much rather pop in the Matrix trilogy.
>>81985107
Because the barrier between a good character portrayal and a bad one is some arbitrary amount of lines
Shut the fuck up
God discussing this movie isnt even fun anymore
They probably just cut a lot of Clark's shit. The bluray will have a extra 30 minutes so let's wait and see.
>>81985162
Assume for a moment that BvS is brilliant.
Film making has a lot of steps.
Choosing your target audience, and then making sure your message gets through to that target audience are among these steps.
The movie either failed on the fundamental level of choosing the wrong target audience, or on understanding its target audience.
Both options make it a failure.
>>81983830
It shows that the main character doesn't play a significant role in his own film
>>81984605
it quite factually and mathematically is
>>81985162
Batman's motivation makes sense.
Lex's motivation is inadequately explored. No, blink-and-you-miss it throwaway line about his dad is not enough.
Superman totally does hate being Superman in this film. He is a sad mopey angry sack of shit throughout the entire story. The intention is that he is disturbed by mankind's adulation of him and finds it burdensome, but ultimately what that results in is a mopey Superman that hates being Superman. It's also totally inconsistent - you don't actually see any deification of Superman besides in the opening. After that everyone seems to hate him like Marvel citizens hating on muties.
Martha makes no sense considering how Batman has been characterized up until that point in the film. It's also just generally stupid.
>>81983878
To be fair, the movie isn't called "Hawkeye and friends: Age of Ultron."
>>81985215
The 30 minutes is probably going to be
>batman being more violent
>extended Lois bathtub scene
>extended Knightmare
>more Lex shenanigans
>>81985308
But we know that he does have a significant role, his actions create wakes the move the plot forward.
>>81985214
It's not. Christopher Walken's character in Pulp Fiction doesn't get many lines, but he's still a memorable part of the film. But when you have a character who is ostensibly the title character and protagonist of a movie that's really long, and he's, purely numerically, not given a lot of time to actually define himself... then yes, that is a failure of the film. One of the biggest problems people had with it was that Superman felt too formless and undefined, and this is proof that they had a lot of room to flesh him out and give him more than curt observations, the occasional bout of blubbering, and quietly moping his way through the scenes of him saving people's lives and helping others.
>>81985308
Since film, well capeshit, criticism is now a numbers game....
Calculate Superman's total screentime in the movie divided by the runtime, then compare that to spoken line total percentage
This will tell us if the movie is bad or not of course
Report back to me on the results, email me at www.fuckoffretard.com
>>81985405
>Amy Adams' nipples in the director's cut
>>81985392
Lex and Batman's motivation are one and the same.
>Superman's existence has emasculated me
They rationalize as Superman being a faulty god who will destroy the world but in the end Superman just made them feel small.
>>81983651
Must be even sillier with a mask that blocks all facial expression, and a wig.
>>81985452
Then we need to subtract the dream sequence and subtext percentiles in order to establish a baseline relevant portrayal index during which the character is being directly presented to the audience.
That's the key really.
>>81985392
>you don't see any deifification of Superman
But isn't the meme that Synder is obsessed with jesus?
>>81983376
Who the fuck want to see Superman talk
We want see him to do cool stuff. Like fucking battle Lobo or Darkside.
>>81985592
He means in-universe.
Outside of the montage, all the people shown fear him.
Without even scrolling down to read this thread, I'm willing to bet there's at least one jackass going "You're just mad he doesn't quip every other second".
>>81985452
I feel you're getting hung up on the fact that someone counted the number of lines and believe (wrongfully) that they think that the number of lines CAUSED the movie portrayal of superman to be bad.
Rather, the point of this was to (in a somewhat humorous way, given the lines counted included pointless sputterings and shallow conversation) illustrate just how little Superman was given to work with in the movie. Anyone could watch the movie and know that Superman just seemed like a mope and had the charisma of a damp sponge, but it's another thing to looks at what his role was away from the veneer of costumes, advertising and CGI and see it bare-bones.
And that role was to be a plot device that didn't develop, didn't draw you into his story, and didn't make audiences give a shit.
>>81985706
>Outside of the montage, all the people shown fear him.
Shit, even in the montage Superman appears solemn and grim, as if helping people is some huge burden.
>>81985513
And unfortunately, that is not portrayed well at all. It works with Batman, because we actually get to see his motivation crystallizing at the start of the film, but not with Lex.
This is primarily because Lex is a TERRIBLE character in this adaptation. Seriously, he's a non-stop cringe train to listen to. His dialogue is just awful. He never gets any real development, just constant rants.
>>81983376
The film is about the world's perception of Superman, with the first and a half hour focusing on establishing Batman and Lex's motivation. I know people wanted Superman to give a preachy speeches for three hours but that doesn't make BvS bad.
How many lines does Superman have in a typical single comic book?
>>81985976
This, basically. One of the reasons the Byrne Man of Steel still holds up is that it manages to show the beginning of Lex's hatred of Superman in a beautiful way - Superman made him spend a night in jail. Same with Superman TAS, which showed Lex's frustration with Supes's incorruptibility unfold onscreen. They didn't just go "oh I don't like Superman because mumble mumble god mumble devil."
>>81986028
>I know people wanted Superman to give a preachy speeches for three hours but that doesn't make BvS bad
Then I guess it must be fucking everything else about the film.
>>81983376
43 is a lot.
>>81986028
>The film is about the world's perception of Superman,
And they did it poorly. Just because they were trying to do something doesn't automatically mean they succeeded.
I don't think a lot of the BvS defenders get that. You can understand what a filmmaker is trying to do and still think they failed, 2deep4u is not a legitimate argument and never has been.
>>81986028
Are you seriously defending BVS on the basis of "it didn't have preachy speeches"? The movie that featured an entire montage of people making speeches about how Superman is basically Jesus?
Fuck's sake, I'm not asking for a speech. Maybe cut out the newscaster stuff, and instead have him reassuring people while he rescues them instead of silently ripping off La Pieta. Maybe let him give that speech before that one guy goes suicide bomber. The entire first two hours of the movie is talking, broken up by at most two action scenes. A few more wouldn't hurt.
>>81985592
technically snyder is obsessed with bashing jesus, fedora-tipping randroid and altruism-phobe that he is.
>>81983376
they get Hack Snyder the fuck out they still have a chance, but that damage control has to be on point.
So basically this is Batman's movie and Superman is a plot device.
Gosh what a surprise.
>>81983830
Lines of dialogue aren't all, but the shooting script doesn't appear to develop him at all well, judging by what we've been shown so far. It's a movie that's two and a half hours long already - that script must be over a hundred pages long. It's probably 150+, which is incredibly bloated.
The trick with screenwriting is to say everything you need to say and nothing you don't, but it's not a trick they appear to have mastered on this shoot. It would be surprising if even in that bloated script there's a huge amount for Cavill to do or work with, unless he's such a terrible actor they just couldn't use the majority of his scenes. But that in turn would imply the script was more like 250 pages, which is obscene.
>>81983939
Routh's major problem was that like Spacey and Bosworth he kind of looked the part but couldn't pull off the voice or the acting range. The Jimmy they had was pretty damn close, the Perry not so much, and all the gentle humor was gone.
>>81985476
pls snyder, I'll take it all back if this is the case.
>>81986028
People just wanted Superman to be a complete character.
And not constantly be a sad cunt. Would it really have killed Snyder to actually have a character progress over the course of a film, rather than having Clark's entire disillusionment unfold in a tiny montage segment at the very beginning?
Clark has no agency, no personality, and no real development in the film. He just sort of mopes around doing nothing but filling space, until the end where he suddenly perks up and we're supposed to accept that, yes, Superman has learned his lesson and overcome something (specifics of which vary from apologist to apologist), and that's how character building works folks!
>>81986085
Someone who has a supes floppy nearby should report with a number. I'm guessing 20.
>>81984293
You're fucking retarded.
It didn't need be said but I still wanted to say it.
>>81985110
Really short lines.
You can get a lot in.
Longer paragraphs from loquacious characters who need their actions to be explained as they talk? Not so many.
Most are short.
>>81986392
Superman doesn't really overcome anything, the entire third act is focused around Batman for the most part.
>>81986286
Pretty much. Superman is just the reason Bats turns good again. He died to develop Bruce. Kryptonians in refrigerators.
>>81986085
I'll take that challenge. Superman: Lois and Clark #2. He has to share screentime with Lois and his son, so it should be fair.
Not counting internal monologue, he speaks thirty-seven sentences, and a lot of them are wordier than Clark's dialogue in BVS.
>>81986468
I fucking hate how now it's going to be Batman forming the Justice League. Fuck you, Snyder, Batman should never fucking be the one to form the Justice League. I'll see Justice League when one of my friends rents it, Warner Brothers isn't going to get a fucking cent of my money.
>>81986392
>Would it really have killed Snyder to actually have a character progress over the course of a film
There is an arc, by the end Superman has come to terms with the role of being a superhero. He's no longer conflicted, he's content and ready to sacrifice himself on the job if need be.
>>81986718
Oh man. You realy shouldn't listen to Snyder's interviews.
>>81986734
Well they shouldn't bothered with that, no one wants to fucking see that. They want THE Superman.
>>81984272
I really have no idea what they were thinking in the Smallville scenes of MoS. There wasn't a single reason for Clark to give a shit about anyone on Earth given what we were shown.
The main takeaway here is that in the DCEU, Superman has already been established via Man of Steel. Supes had a hell of a lot more dialogue there; his characterization is pretty well established by the end of that film. In contrast, Lex and Batman get plenty of dialogue because their characters are just being introduced in this universe. If you saw BvS before seeing MoS, you done goofed - BvS takes the Superman established in MoS, adds some development, and rolls on.
That said, in the interim between MoS and the filming of BvS, we were told that the controversial decision of Superman killing Zod - and how Supes dealt with it - would have a big effect on the development on him, and would be explored going into the future. I think they missed the mark on that in BvS. The Congress scene would have been a great opportunity for that: Superman gives a moving opening statement that touches all, including the unwitting crippled pawn who originally was going to testify against him, and then the bomb goes.
>>81984349
>A line spoken at his lowest
But that wasn't even the worst situation he's been in, the Zod shit was much worse not to mention he doesn't even try to kill Batman so the line doesn't make sense, he would have died good.
>>81986713
Ooh, they released the first issue of the old Superman/Batman comic for free on Comixology. I'll check that.
He got thirty-three sentences, again, not counting internal monologue. And it's Superman/Batman, a comic where about three quarters of the dialogue is color-coded internal monologue. Add in that, and it's another thirty-two sentences.
Superman has significantly more dialogue in the comic rereleased to tie into the film than he does in the film itself.
>>81984487
Stupid Tripfag.
>Supes is a sad fuck
>Clark seems like your average Joe with his high and low points
>they kill Clark
Why
>>81986237
>they did it poorly
I think they did it very well.
>>81986191
Its a two and half hour movie and Superman is supposed to be the main character.
Thats practically 1 line every 4 minutes.
Fuck you.
>>81983819
id be happy with that.
Or jesus christ even better if Marvel got the rights back to the shiar empire and he appeared in infinity war or gotg 3 as gladiador.
>>81987003
May not be the worse but it's certainly disheartening for Supes to know that saving the world isn't enough.
>>81987069
You know, let's take another shooting script. How about Corporal Hicks, from Aliens? He's not the protagonist; hell, he's barely the tritagonist. This should be an easy win.
He gets over seventy lines of dialogue.
>>81986851
>, Superman has already been established via Man of Steel.
Bullshit. I got three years of "This is only the start of his journey the sequel will cover it!"
Now suddenly we're supposed to ignore that because OH LOOK BATMAN AGAIN.
>>81987554
But on the other hand,
>Aliens
>zero lines of dialogue
!!! THE MOVIE IS CALLED ALIENS !!!
>>81985405
Whatever was cut sent the movie from an R to PG-13. My bet is on more violent Batmurder.
>>81987575
MoS was the start, BvS is the end of the journey for settling in to the role of Superman and learning the good and bad that comes with it.
>>81987688
Why the fuck do you need two movies about that.
>>81987688
Except we already got that shit last movie.
I thought it was v and not vs because it was a deep and introspective legal preceding that was a clash of ideologies. Was that bullshit after all?Yes. Yes it was.
>do you bleed?
>well you will
This wasn't even a good/cool or funny line. It almost seems like an outtake
>Superman essentially smashes Batman's toy
>you're grounded Batman
>d-do you bleed
>says literally nothing
>w-well you will
It was pathetic. Nothing worse than a character saying a dramatic/serious line then have it followed by dead silence and a cough from the audience
>>81987843
It gave me flashbacks to the "I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast" line from Happy Gilmore.
>>81987575
I think MoS Clark Kent was spot on. I like it when people say Superman doesn't angst or brood because Yoing Clark kent is full of angst and he does most certainly brood about his place in the world.
>but MoS did it to an excessive
Bullshit it did.
MoS gave us a faithful adaption of a young clark kent on the cusp of Supermanhood but Cavil lend such a sense of stoicism to the dramatic moments that for some people it feels like brooding.
>>81984487
Reading is not supposed to be difficult. Stop making it harder for yourself and then you can interpret concepts and meaning easily.
>>81987992
> I like it when people say Superman doesn't angst or brood because Yoing Clark kent is full of angst and he does most certainly brood about his place in the world.
Cite something other than Earth One.
>>81987992
The problem is that this was the stuff that this movie was supposed to get us past. Birthright has Superman angsting and trying to find his place in the world, but in Birthright, he has agency. In Birthright, he chooses to wear bright colors and no mask because he wants to be seen as approachable. He works past his angst in clear, visible ways, and he just seems like a decent person. When he saves people, he talks to them and reassures them. He's a nice guy who's seen some shit, not a brick with a sad face drawn on it.
>>81987725
MoS was just Clark's first day on the job. BvS is him facing the reaction to his superheroics and accepting his own limitations now that he's gone through his learning curve. He can't always save everybody and thus please the world by always being perfect but he will keep protecting the world. Not because he feels obligated, but because he wants to. He finishes grown into the role in BvS
>43
That's more than twice the age of Henry Cavill's girlfriend!
>>81984785
The thing i've heard most is
>W-well at least DC films aren't all the same as Marvel ones!
Despite the only two DC films in the universe so far are the exact same shit.
>>81988638
How eloquently put.
>>81988638
The exact same shit as Marvel films, or as one another? Just clarifying, I doubt it's the former.
The thing about Marvel films that makes them tick is that they tend to prioritize a likeable, solid cast and giving those characters opportunities to interact. That's what gives them their appeal to mass audiences, because even if the plot winds up being kinda threadbare, you're still going along with the story of the characters and you don't really mind the shooting blue stuff.
The closest thing that BVS has to a likeable cast of characters working off each other is Bruce and Alfred, and maybe Bruce and Diana if you squint. And whaddaya know? They were one of the few parts of the movie that just about everyone seemed to enjoy. Everyone else is either stolid and boring, barely has time with the others, or played by Jesse Eisenberg.
>>81987843
So what do you want Supes says as a comeback?
The silence and his leaving right after that showing his uneasiness after Batman said that line.
>Superman shoved aside in what was supposed to be a Man of Steel sequel
>Batman in Suicide Squad
>Batman will be the one putting the Justice League together, he'll show up in the other movies as well
>Booyah Begins will become a reality
>>81986734
As apposed to before? He was always willing to die
>>81983603
Don't you just wanna kiss him?
![ae9a1121a1a06381-dc_comics_superman_christopher_reeve_desktop_1024x768_wallpaper1073650[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/8HcLrKV.png "ae9a1121a1a06381-dc_comics_superman_christopher_reeve_desktop_1024x768_wallpaper1073650[1].png")
Shall we relive the good days?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk1aQx9hTaE
>In the decade of the 1930s, even the great city of Metropolis was not spared the ravages of the worldwide depression. In times of fear and confusion, the job of informing the public was the responsibility of the Daily Planet, a great metropolitan newspaper whose reputation for clarity and truth had become the symbol for hope in the city of Metropolis...
>>81985281
But It did get thru to the target audience.
The people that wanted this dark tortured Superman enjoyed the film.
THIS AND HIM DYING IN THE MOVIE MAKES ME MAD REEEEEEEEEEEEwhy is it always batman who takes the spotlight , give Clark some Steve Rogers scenes ;-;how does my fellow supesfag deal with this heresy ;-;
>>81986462
He puts the world's concern over his motives and morals to rest by sacrificing himself twice to save it, first with the nuke & then the spear.
>>81986819
You can be taught not to talk to strangers and still be taught to care about people.
>>81989280
Yes, and people who like the idea of someone shitting in their mouth would love The Human Centipede, but that doesn't make it a good film. If nothing else, the word of mouth and sharp drops in box office are a strong indication that the general public doesn't want a dark tortured Superman.
>>81989107
The fundamental difference is that previously he was an accidental hero who rose to the occasion, now he consciously CHOOSES to be that hero and seeks out threats that is endangering people's lives.
>>81983819
God, what a twist of the knife that would be...
>>81986462
>Superman doesn't really overcome anything
He overcomes his own self-doubts about his role and impact on the world, the world's bias against him as well as redeeming Batman.
>>81989312
>how does my fellow supesfag deal with this heresy ;-;
Because I have DCAU and Captain America
>>81988300
>but because he wants to.
So why's he look so miserable about it.
>>81989312
>why is it always Batman that takes the spotlight
This. Even in the Lego movies it's always Batman.
>>81985405
Don't forget
>Barbara Gordon most likely through some reference to The Killing Joke
>>81983832
This. Faggots in here can't understand visual storytelling.
>>81989566
This you can always have him reflect that hes bothered by the deification in conversation with lois. Just have the dude smile and tell a victim theyll be ok.
>>81985476
Three hour long rated R Superman movie with female nipples. Never thought I'd see the day.
>>81989566
He isn't miserable in the end, that's the turning point. Before he's understandably having doubts when he and the world is played by Luthor and his smear tactics, making look like all the good he does only results into more chaos and suffering later on. Superman would feel shitty about that. Having doubts is nothing new to Superman as a character.
>there are actually people legitimately defending bvs and treating it like it's anything more than garbage
I want /tv/ to leave and stay the fuck out
>Any movie that isn't Marvel Quipshit is bad.
>>81989707
But he was miserable a long time before Luthor's smear campaign. Again, montage of him saving people. He carries civilians like they're the corpse of his dead dog.
>>81989312
>>81989434
Yes but it was a good film. And a film doesn't have to have 100% mass audience appeal to be good.
>>81989712
I just thought it was mediocre. Like a 5/10 or 6/10. It had some pacing/editing problems which I recognize are a thing but I don't really care about them that much.
>Zack Snyder humanizes Superman and gives him a sense of defeat and frailty
>People complain
Niggers.
>>81989626
And Superman will go fascist in the Justice League movie. Take that, Superman fans! HAHAHA! He's the villain in the games and now in the movies.
>>81988813
A big problem is that Snyder doesn't grasp the concept of Darkness Induced Audience Apathy. There's nothing wrong with being serous, but everything is so grim and maudlin that it's hard to care when a character dies because it's like "Good riddance to that asshole. One down, a dozen more to go".
There hasn't been a single death in either of these movies that's actually felt like a loss for me yet. Not even Superman's
And the worst part is, it's not even risky or new. Their grand idea was to make everything as Batman as possible and wank that one tone and character archetype of the tortured loner driven by tragedy even more than they already were.
>>81989726
We're in the age of comic movies. I DEMAND another Dragon Ball movie, just make it good this time.
>>81983753
Dude, Cavill is charming as fuck and the few stuff I've seen him in shows great depth of acting talent.
He is literally wasted in Snyder and these poorly directed pieces of garbage.
>>81989799
You're not part of the problem. The people who ignore the movie's flaws or even interpret what are objective flaws as "smart film making" for the sake of being contrarian only to attract the kinds of people who actually believe what they're saying are the problem.
>>81989858
Viz just signed a development deal with a production company. We're getting one soon.
>>81989712
I want selfish petty campfags who think they and only they should be catered to to get the fuck out but that ain't gonna happen so suck it mother fucker.
>>81989760
If he was smiling like an idiot he'd come off as a sociopath. His serious look is due to the gravity of the of the situation.
>>81989859
I'm so sorry he's not your all-American Mary Sue and now he's actually relatable and interesting.
>>81989804
>>Zack Snyder humanizes Superman and gives him a sense of defeat and frailty
>Humans are mopey assholes all the time, no exceptions. The only time you're allowed to be happy is when you're flying.
No wonder the sequel has an airline as product placement.
But seriously the problem with "Snyder humanizes Clark" is that Snyder doesn't seem to have a good view of humanity as a whole. There's more to humanity than its flaws, and not having Clark recognize, be exposed to, or celebrate the benefits of humanity makes him a dis-likable character and calls into question why he's even bothering.
>>81989889
>If he was smiling like an idiot he'd come off as a sociopath.
He still does for most people.
>>81989897
You forgot to say he's "realistic"
>>81989888
>i am 13 years old and want everything as dark and gritty as possible
No but seriously, where did I bring up campy movies in my post? I said nothing about wanting the movie to be more lighthearted, I said the movie was shit.
>>81983704
top kek, underrated post
>>81989864
But their are no real objective technical flaws.
I went in seeking them out having resigned myself that it would be a lesser film.
And I saw virtually none.
>>81989946
Ignore it. He's one of those edgelord teens that thinks that in order for something to be taken seriously it has to be greyed out and everyone is screaming all the time. The only acceptable colors other than grey are red and black.
>>81989701
We better get some Super Dong in the r rated cut.
>>81989864
I fully admit there were flaws but think ultimately it is was still perhaps the best capeshit movie since The Dark Knight. The Deep Sleep is one of the cinema history's most famous incomprehensible movies where the story makes no sense at all but it's still a great picture and people like it despite the glaring flaws.
>>81983704
>BvS as an episode of Curb
>Batman and Superman doing the stare off
I want this.
>>81989889
He doesn't have to be smiling, but he's literally saving people's lives and he's treating it like UGGGGH SUCH A BURDEN WHY MUST I DO WHAT I DO. Real-life firefighters who actually risk their lives don't act like that. He doesn't even say goodbye or reassure the people or do anything. Just telling them they'd be okay would do a lot to show him actually caring.
>>81989897
If he's so relatable and interesting, then why am I not at all intrigued by his story? Comics Superman is a guy I can see myself having a conversation with, or even having a good time with. I can't say the same for DCCU Supes; he feels like he'd spend the whole thing staring at the wall.
>>8198995
Thank you for this explanation. Superman saving people is a burden to him. There's a missing piece that a MoS sequel could've fixed, like instilling hope to the people and living up to his family insignia.
>>81989905
>People that endure the abuse and bad side of humanity are unlikable bad guys.
Victim blaming much faggot?
>>81989515
>>81989442
>>81986734
How though? Why?
Why does he overcome his doubts about heroics, what made him change (besides the plot needing him to sacrifice himself)?
>>81984487
of course you're black
>>81989979
>But their are no real objective technical flaws.
I'm willing to bet you don't actually know what constitutes an objective technical flaw and that you've dismissed any explanations as such over the years as "I liked it, what's the problem?" or "That's just not to your taste, it's subjective!"
In fact I'm also willing to bet you're also the guy that keeps trying to say that the movie's tone is because it's "sci-fi" because you don't know what the actual definition of the term or breadth of the genre.
>>81990025
He did instill hope. He instilled hope in Batman, the bat turned good because Superman. And then Superman died for your sins in the Doomsday fight. He's pure hope.
>>81989946
>I'm a 7 year old that can't deal with anything darker then a episode of the disney channel and am so selfish I can't imagine a company making a product for someone other then myself.
The film wasn't shit in almost anyway if you have no problem with the tone.
>>81990077
A freak coincidence instilled hope in Batman. Nothing he did. Then he got impaled, but not really.
>>81989983
>perhaps the best capeshit movie since The Dark Knight.
But even Memepool was a better movie
>>81990030
Assuming I agreed with your interpretation of the character that just makes the "and calls into question why he's even bothering" thing I said. That you ignored. Because obviously reading isn't something that Snyderfags are capable of. Better to just zone out thirty seconds in and say something is deep and epic and serious.
It's no wonder you're okay with Clark only having 43 lines if you can't make it through the five of my post.
>>81990056
Ma tells him that it doesn't matter what other want of him, it's up to him to decide whether or not he keeps being a hero. Pa's anecdote makes him come to terms with the fact that he cannot always control the outcome of his actions. Combined together they help Clark resolve his own doubts and be Superman on his own terms rather than let the world dictate it for him.
>>81989980
False, I can take the MCU films seriously despite their best atempts to the contrary, I am mearly defending people that have the fucking honor to no destroy their entire plot line, sense of weight, gravity or suspense with slap stick.
>>81990056
In before someone accuses you of needing spoon feeding and tells you to rewatch it.
>>81989804
>humanizing Superman
>by having him barely ever talk to other humans and generally seeming completely distant from them
I mean sure, autists are human but come on.
>>81983819
He already is playing Hyperion
>>81990121
Clark proving Bruce's fears to be false instilled hope in Batman.
>>81987575
BvS is NOT a MoS sequel
>>81989983
I think you mean the worst since Catwoman.
It's a dead-locked three-way between BvS, ASM2 and Jonah Hex.
>>81990181
Eat shit, plenty of serious movies have moments of levity in them.
The Witch was en times more intense then BvS could ever hope to be and even that had small jokes in it. I'm pretty sure even Se7en had more levity in it then Batman v Superman.
>>81988203
Nearly every season of Smallvile
>>81990181
>I am mearly defending people that have the fucking honor to no destroy their entire plot line, sense of weight, gravity or suspense with slap stick.
>honor
Okay for future reference because everything you said was bullshit and I know you're just screaming buzzwords in an attempt to attribute some quality to a shitty movie, here's a word you can use.
"gravitas"
That way you don't have to say "sense of weight, gravity or suspense". The word you're trying to claim the movie has is "gravitas" It DOESN'T, because the characters are so woeflly unlikable that it's hard to give a shit about them, and the dialogue is so forced and hackneyed that it looks back around into being funny because of how gratuitous it is, and because all that shit goes out the window immediately in order to do things Snyder thinks is "cool" or "symbolic", but at least you'll sound a little smarter and less try-hard by using the right word!
>>81990240
>Clark proving Bruce's fears to be false instilled hope in Batman.
He didn't actually do that. There's no actual addressing of the 1% problem. If anything the movie raises the percentage.
>>81989983
Are you really comparing a 1940s Film Noir to a 2016 Hollywood action blockbuster that was advertized as the greatest gladiator match of all times?
It's fine if you want to do kino, just don't do it in a way that screams "flick".
>>81990309
>Nearly every season of Smallvile
Man I WISH we got a Jonathan as good as the Smallville one.
>>81990157
Gotta agree there. Pretty much every character is either a maudlin, miserable victim who's practically given up, a naive fool in the process of becoming the above, or a crazy jerk who's trying to ruin the world. That Superman tries to save humanity feels less like a noble but difficult struggle and more like the protestings of a beaten spouse.
>>81990060
People on a podcast I listened to claimed the editing was bad, scenes were random and that the final fight was indecipherable.
I've seen bad editing before, in movies were the action was to close up and quick cut, Nolan's fight scenes in BB/TDK are a example of this.
Nothing like that was in the film.
Only like 2 scenes in total came off as random, everything else seemed to build up to the eventual senate explosion.
And I followed the final fight and the characters within perfectly fine.
Not sure what your talking about in regards to sci-fi but I do believe such was believable here thanks to them handling it in a mature manner rather then basically being meta and saying we know this is stupid silly bullshit but believe it anyway the way say the first GI Joe did.
>>81990377
>that was advertized as the greatest gladiator match of all times?
This movie couldn't even decide how it was going to be in advertising. The title and a bunch of stuff beforehand wanted it to be an introspective clash of ideologies, and then like maybe six months before release they realized "Wait nobody give a shit about that! We'd better advertise the fuck out of the action instead! Gladiator match of the century! Are you not entertained?!"
It's never a good sign when your movie's commercials are so weighted at the last 20 minutes of a 2 and a half hour movie.
>>81990269
>It's a dead-locked three-way between BvS, ASM2 and Jonah Hex.
Except all 3 of those are better then any of the fantastic 4s and Electra.
>>81990119
>responding to the joke part of the post
>thinking that "anyway" means the same thing as "any way"
Anyway, you're still the only one pretending the tone of the movie has anything to do with what I said. When something as fundamental as characters and a story completely fail in your motion picture, you have a bad motion picture. I'm going to commit a cardinal sin of arguing my point to a DC fan, but I'm going to use Marvel movies as examples to prove my point. Look at Spider-Man 3 and Amazing Spider-Man 2. Both of these movies tried desperately to cram as many characters and plot points into a movie as possible because executives saw just how profitable these superhero movies were getting and wanted to pump out as many sequels as humanly possible. The movies suffered for it and they are pretty much considered a joke among superhero movie audiences, Marvel fans and DC fans agree with this alike. But when BvS does the exact same thing, why is it suddenly forgivable? How is it not a flaw to shamelessly cram in characters that have zero business being in an already bloated movie? If adding more characters and story arcs into an already unnecessarily convoluted movie for the sake of practically advertising for a sequel isn't an inherit flaw, I don't know what is. And before you accuse me of being a Marveldrone and say "BUT LOOK AT CIVIL WAR" let me say that I am not confident that Civil War will be able to pull off what I essentially just described, adding in too many characters and all. Pretty much every Marvel movie is also guilty of doing the whole "the movie is basically an advertisement for the next movie" thing which is something I'm getting pretty sick of, but I'm just jaded towards superhero movies in general.
>>81990405
>I've seen bad editing before, in movies were the action was to close up and quick cut, Nolan's fight scenes in BB/TDK are a example of this.
That's largely a matter of choreography, not editing. There's more to a movie, even an action movie, than its fight scenes.
Then again I kind of think that's part of the problem. A lot of you guys go "What? He flies and he's strong! That's totally Superman!" because powers and action sequences are all you look at, and not the actual characterization.
>>81990462
Tranktastic barely qualifies as a movie.
Elektra is just a lame TV pilot pretending to be a theatrical film, it's boring but not aggressively awful.
>>81990171
That doesn't seem like the type of stuff that would convince you that being Superman and sacrificing yourself is the right decision, just that it's a decision that you can make or not.
Also fuck this Randian shit, we get it Snyder, being gifted is a burden because people expect things from you, boo fucking hoo.
>>81990269
ASM2 at least had Gwen being cute and the GOAT spidey costume.
>>81990323
Unlikable TO YOU.
I find mos's Clark to be incredibly sympathetic.
And Bruce isn't meant to be likable here.
>>81990382
I dont think Costner's is too far off from the same tone. He's a simple man who loves his family, and - while realizing the incredible potential in his son - also fears that people wil reject Clark for his gifts. He's protecting his son from the world
>>81990358
>There's no actual addressing of the 1% problem.
Because that was pure senseless paranoid ranting. The world does not fucking work in absolutes like that, especially people. Superman proved to be a good man despite all of Batman's fears. He could have killed him any time he wanted if Batman was right, but he didn't. He then even goes and sacrifices his life to protect Earth, despite the world turning against him after the senate bombing.
>>81990396
>That Superman tries to save humanity feels less like a noble but difficult struggle and more like the protestings of a beaten spouse.
I don't even think it's a matter of stockholm syndrome. That would be interesting. I think that Snyder went "He saves people! See?!! Stop complaining! Stop saying I don't know!! I totally know!!" damage control and left it at that.
Clark's goodness and willingness to save people and sacrifice makes very little ense and requires a LOT of metatextual justification and cajoling to even approach feeling organic. Clark is an optimistic humanist, being written by an cynical objectivist. They just don't mix well, so we have to pretend shit like "Jonathan went back for the dog!" is explanation enough for Superman being Superman..
(Even if that was intentional and what they were going for, that makes humanity the dogs in this metaphor. Superman shouldn't see humans as lesser, he's got more respect for them than that. Hell, by this argument that means he's guilty of bathtub bestiality.)
>>81990544
I would of liked this a lot better if Batman wasn't quoting Dick Cheney.
>tfw movies will NEVER move on from 9/11 and Bush administration analogies
>>81990512
It's not about being right or wrong, it's about accepting the consequences of your actions, good and bad, and being able to keep moving rather than being burdened by your failures and doing nothing, or worse, stop trying. You learn from mistakes and do better next time, you don't call it quits after an unforeseeable consequence because ultimately, as Superman are helping people on a daily basis and giving people hope in their darkest moments.
>>81990405
I think what people refer to when they say bad editing here is the way the scenes flow with each other and the order they decided to put them in. Which honestly is more of a script problem than a real editing problem.
>handling it in a mature manner rather then basically being meta
But the movie is extremely meta (being entirely about how the audience perceives Superman, and by extension gifted people like those movie geniuses they think they are) and not particularly mature either. Gritty is not inherently more mature than silly.
Does looking sad count as a line?;_;
>>81990477
ASM2 I haven't seen.
But SM3 gave too little screen time to both Harry & Brock for them to be particularly good villains and then killed them off eleminating any chance for them to be expanded on.
And in my experience people still like SM3 reasonably well beyond a poor choice for Brock & the emo dancing.
BVS's craming was only the JL cameos and such should have been placed earlier in the film as it disrupted the tension around that scene but it was a fine if unsubtle way to set up the universe.
And the apocalyptic scenes were amazing & haunting to behold and furthered Bruce's fears.
>>81990529
>I dont think Costner's is too far off from the same tone
Let's do a comparison.
When Snyder Clark has an instance of powers in public, Snyder Jonathan says to put a lid on that and hide because the world isn't ready.
Compare that, to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtUEd25FojA
When Smallville Clark has an instance of powers in public, Smallville Jonathan takes him out back, and says "You need to practice. We need to learn and understand your gifts, both for your safety and the safety of others".
Do you see how those two are different? They're both "I love my space son and want him to be safe" but one is much more cynical and fearful than the other.
>>81990501
No I am looking at the characterization, I just disagree that he has to be smiling every second of everyday to be likable.
>>81990652
If anything, people can perhaps finally start to process the Bush era properly now and then put it past them rather than trying to willfully ignore as much of it as possible and hoping its effects go away on their own.
>>81990706
It's not about the audience perception you self entitled fanboy, it's about how the world would perceive Superman and how his existence would wpuld shake even the most powerful men to their very core.
>>81990218
In movie medium it shows that he doesn't really open up except for his trusted and loving ones, that makes it understandable if the world doesn't really understand himself. He is a quiet, serious, but good-natured type. I think it's normal for a human to have that personality. It's imaginable that he surely would talk a little to people he saved, just like what a serious police does.
>>81990752
There's also a giant age gap between the two.
>>81990766
>implying the Bush era is over
>>81983376
Does it include dialogues as Clark Kent?
Maybe the R rated extended cut has more dialogues
>>81983830
>By intriguing and fascinating, I mean asinine and ignorant
You don't have to say that in text, you can just go back and change it.
>>81989712
You realize /tv/ is being incredibly ironic about this movie right
Everyone there knows its shit
>>81990544
>Because that was pure senseless paranoid ranting.
No, it really wasn't. MoS Superman is fucking scary. His existence has brought with it a hell of a lot of death and destruction. No, he didn't cause all of it, but there's still no net gain yet, and he's been used as a blunt instrument for humanity's end at least twice now.
>The world does not fucking work in absolutes like that, especially people.
You really don't get the point of that quote, do you. The fact is that Clark's existence brings more trouble than he's made it worth.
>Superman proved to be a good man despite all of Batman's fears.
No, he's proven to be human. Easily swayed, corruptible, and driven by the same pettiness, fear, and paranoia as the rest of humanity in this universe. If you want to say "Clark is human! Problem solved!" you can't have all the humans being assholes for 2 movies beforehand.
>He could have killed him any time he wanted if Batman was right, but he didn't.
You don't get points for that. Especially in a batwank movie.
> He then even goes and sacrifices his life to protect Earth, despite the world turning against him after the senate bombing.
You have to be for something before you can turn against it. And no, a "the daily planet said he was an okay guy once" in passing is not enough to establish he had good PR going into this movie.
>>81990513
>ASM2 at least had Gwen being cute and the GOAT spidey costume.
BVS has...
>Great outfits for all 3 of the trinity.
>Best Batman & Bruce Wayne in live action.
>Best Batman fight scenes in live action.
>2 great sacrificial Superman moments.
>Sexy Lois bathtime.
>Fun Perry.
>Great flashback to mos from Bruce's point of view.
>Great Wonder Woman fighting moments.
>>81990834
Yup.
>>81990699
That's some pretty weak shit. Those are reasons why you don't stop doing good, not reasons to do good to begin with (which again, I don't think he's given a lot throughout 2 movies).
It is about being (subjectively) right or wrong, Superman should think doing good is right, otherwise I don't see why he does it.
>>81990852
Is this movie going to get any dank memes, anything even approaching baneposting?
>>81990811
Was there?
I honestly can't tell because the lighting of these movies makes the characters look way older than they're probably supposed to be.
>>81990855
>Best Batman & Bruce Wayne in live action.
>Best Batman fight scenes in live action.
Nope.
>>81990899
Dude, the movie IS a dank meme.
>>81990855
Bruce looks like a fat dork in his costume. He looks much better in suicide squad.
>>81990706
Sorry meta was the wrong word.
It treated it's sci-fi like something that could actually happen on the real world, rather then making a cartoon world to accommodate the sci-fi.
>>81990834
It does, but the dialogue is just Clark and Bruce asking "Where's Felicity?"
>>81990854
>corruptible
How can you misread a movie like this? How can you honestly say that Clark was shown to be corruptible when the opposite was so clearly shown?
>>81990782
>It's imaginable that he surely would talk a little to people he saved, just like what a serious police does.
Then why doesn't he?
>>81990764
>I just disagree that he has to be smiling every second of everyday to be likable.
You can fuck right off with that hyperbole. Asking for a balanced character isn't unreasonable and you fucking know it.
>>81990899
MMM BOYS
