Ok, I hadn't seen the movie until now, and I seriously tought that you guys were overreacting like always, but:
>Batman killing anything that moves, and literally ROLLING OVER PEOPLE WITH THE BATMOBILE
>Superman doesn't care about anyone as long as Lois is safe
>The overuse of meta shit
>FLASH TIME TRAVELING INTO A DREAM
>Wonder Woman is sudenly the smartest human being on earth
>Bruce just going crazy town banana pants the WHOLE FUCKING MOVIE
>And sudenly everyone have become friends
What the flying shit did I just watch?
At least Alfred was good...
>>81724944
It wasn't a dream. Ever read Flashpoint? That was Bruce seeing an alternate future, a vision caused by Flash's time travel.
>>81724944
Batman didn't kill everything. Most of those guys in the warehouse are able to say they survived the Batman.
>>81725505
Oh right, silly me. That makes the scores even when he dragged a card and threw it into another, all of them with the badguys still on it.
>>81724944
Wonder Woman isn't a human and she wasn't that smart. Couldn't even decrypt the drive.
>>81725677
She doesn't have a freaking Batcomputer.
>>81725571
Don't forget the guys he tricked into ramming a tanker truck, that exploded.
>>81724944
>>Wonder Woman is sudenly the smartest human being on earth
What?
>>81725868
Probably killing an inocent truck driver who was about to finish his shift.
I liked that batman killed people, I thought it fit his character in the movie very well. He was an angry, betrayed, and bitter dark knight.
People need to let go of the unreasonable visions they have of certain characters and just enjoy shit.
You mother fuckers are so jaded.
>>81724944
I liked it. Honestly those criticisms are extremely forced. It's at least as good as any other capeshit out there. One of my faves already.
>>81725869
I have no idea what he's talking about
>>81725806
If she's smarter than Batman why doesn't she make a Wonder Woman computer?
>>81724944
I was weirdly okay with Batman doing that.
Superman you can honestly never have enough of Superman being actually heroic
>meta shit
Like what exactly?
Flash was pretty cool.
Where did it ever imply that about WW? And she ain't even human.
I loved this about Bruce. Older and crazy Bruce is one of the bests Bruces.
>last point
Yeah that was pretty forced but it was really only Batman's side of it that didn't make sense.
>>81724944
>Crazy Town Banana Pants
Slott pls go
>>81726348
Why does no one understand that Bruce in his moment of crazed rage realized what he was doing was stupid? This is worse than the martha memes
>>81726435
>Bruce in his moment of crazed rage realized what he was doing was stupid? T
Because the "moment" is over two hours of the movie's runtime. We don't see a "lucid" Bruce until the very end, and by then it's too little too late.
>>81726435
I dunno, I could go either way on it. With the logic that Bruce for the first time realized that Clark has a family and is basically human. Then it's cool. But the fact that he never considered that in the years of him absolutely hating Superman.
BEHOLD, KAL-EL, I HAVE DEFEATED YOU ACROSS THE MULTIVERSE. YOUR AUTHORS ARE MY SLAVES, YOUR STORY IS THE STORY OF ANTI-LIFE. YOU HAVE FAILED. YOU WERE ALWAYS DESTINED TO FAIL. ALLOW YOUR LAST GLIMMER OF HOPE TO FADE FROM MIND.
THE REPOSITORY OF EARTH 33 HAS SUBMITTED TO ANTI-LIFE. WITNESS HOW THEIR MAGICIAN COULD NOT SAVE THEM. THEY TOIL AND DIE FOR DARKSEID NOW. THEIR PEOPLE KILL, LIKE THEIR HERO SUPERMAN. THEY SIT ALONE IN THEIR ROOMS, OBSESSED WITH MONEY AND DEATH, MASTURBATING TO HARLEY QUINN ON COMMAND. YOUR TRINITY IS IN TATTERS, THE MULTIVERSE DEFENSELESS.
DARKSEID COMICS HAVE PRODUCED THE ULTIMATE MEMETIC WEAPON. ANTI-LIFE MEDIA BROADCAST WORLDWIDE SIMULTANEOUSLY TO THE PEOPLE OF EARTH 33, ATTACKING THE CORE MEANING OF YOUR SIGILS ACROSS 52 DIMENSIONS.
YOU WILL SUBMIT TO ANTI-LIFE. KILL. FUCK. DIE ON COMMAND.
DIE! DIE FOR DARKSEID.
This movie sucked a mountain of dicks.
>>81726539
And "He has a family that can be held in hostage to force him do to bad things and if he loses them he'll turn into a murderous despot" should have the opposite effect when you actually think about it. That's not reassuring. That's even scarier.
>>81726512
He was lucid up until supes broke his toy.
>>81726539
But that motivation for batman exists in several comic storylines, why is it so unbelievable now when supes literally causes people to die and his company to suffer?
>>81724944
>Batman killing anything that moves
Wrong, but hey, hyperbole, I get it, babby's first criticisms
>Superman doesn't care about anyone as long as Lois is safe
There was literally a sequence of him saving people other than Lois
>The overuse of meta shit
What does this even mean? At least try to make sense
>FLASH TIME TRAVELLING INTO A DREAM
Speedforce
>Wonder Woman is suddenly the smartest human being on earth
How so?
>Bruce just going crazy town banana pants the WHOLE FUCKING MOVIE
How so?Did you forget Bruce IS fucking crazy?
>And suddenly everyone have become friends
It wasn't suddenly, it was through development. But hey, your criticisms for a movie too big for little minds is fitting
>>81726654
While we do know that's part of the Injustice storyline, and literally teased in the movie itself, in reality he actually tries to persuade batman. Batman attacking him forces him to react in combat.
>>81724944
>Batman killing anything that moves, and literally ROLLING OVER PEOPLE WITH THE BATMOBILE
>MUH BATMAN
>>Wonder Woman is sudenly the smartest human being on earth
what the fuck are you even talking about
>>Bruce just going crazy town banana pants the WHOLE FUCKING MOVIE
and it was the best part about him. batman should always be a little crazy and having nightmares
>>81724944
I'm not sure why you're suprised, it's just another earth in the multiverse, We already established it was different with Superman's Origin.
I don't get how people keep getting surprised when we already know it's not gonna be New Earth continuity
>>81726678
>He was lucid up until supes broke his toy.
Not lucid enough to gather intel on his target.
>But that motivation for batman exists in several comic storylines, why is it so unbelievable now when supes literally causes people to die and his company to suffer?
Because those comic storylines have context and better characterization.
>>81726732
>in reality he actually tries to persuade batman.
When he's pushed to desperation. His first impulse is a dick waving contest.
>>81726749
And this movie has no context? The beginning literally starts with context. Clearly the movie didn't want to waste time characterizing one of the most popular superheroes of all time, with good reason.
>muh lucid
He spent 75% the movie stealing intel and kryptonite from Lex
>>81726730
>Defending this shitty movie
DCuckage knows no bounds
>>81726772
Not unlike Superman's character if you ask me. How many of his bouts began with cocky misunderstanding straight into haymakers.
>>81724944
>>Batman killing anything that moves, and literally ROLLING OVER PEOPLE WITH THE BATMOBILE
im glad. hes killing the murderers who are trying to smuggle in weapons for a crazy arms dealing psycho and who are totally down for burning women to death
>Superman doesn't care about anyone as long as Lois is safe
he was saving people the whole movie you dipshit
>Wonder Woman is sudenly the smartest human being on earth
because she can do some hacking?
>And sudenly everyone have become friends
how the fuck are you whining about this of all things
>>81726818
Not him but I've never seen the movie, but is it a bad movie because it's a bad movie or is it a bad movie because it's a movie about DC characters?
>>81724944
hi /tv/
>>81726818
Avenger memegeek detected
>>81726818
>>81726895
please both go die, I want /co/ back
>>81724944
So for people who have seen the movie, which is better? The Movie Batman or the Batman we have now?
>>81726925
I must live to see the Justice League movie
>>81726818
I'm more of a Marvel guy anyway so whatever
>>81726862
The editing in the first act is pretty bad/not the best, but the criticism is definitely exaggerated. All this shitposting and company wars doesn't help either
>>81726803
See, usually when they do these stories, they have Bruce be the one that does the legwork. He gathers the intel, he makes a Kryptonite ring, he sets all the traps. We get inside his head and we see his motivations. That's what I mean about context and characterization.
Here Lex does most of that work. He HAS to because the resolution to the conflict is such a gimme that if Bruce had all the information and was allowed to make an informed decision there wouldn't BE a conflict. That's because the resolution and his motivations are that shallow.
"Superman was humanized" is NOT a proper counter argument to the "Superman's level of unchecked power is scary" It CAN'T be, because the movie goes to great lengths to say that humans can go crazy, can be evil, can be jerks, can be exploited, can't be trusted and are generally kind of shit.
>>81726939
God's work, anon
>>81726969
>The editing in the first act is pretty bad/not the best, but the criticism is definitely exaggerated. All this shitposting and company wars doesn't help either
Well I was considering it and the idea that batman is literally the punisher wearing a batsuit is really appealing to me.
People complained about him not killing anyone because trauma, why be mad now?
>Snyder says in interviews that Batman kills people because he did in The Dark Knight Returns
>Batman didn't actually kill anyone in The Dark Knight Returns
Maybe he should have read that comic he loves so much.
>>81727033
My main isue with Batman killing is that it's just an integral part of his character, and you CANNOT (or, well, should not) present a new version of the character that contradicts previous interations without at least providing SOME clear context as to why the character is darke and shit.
I know there's some Alfred dialogue, and the shot of the Robin suit, but that shit's way too vague. The worst part of this is that all it took is literally 1 line: right before the cops encoutner Batman (or after, whatever), the rookie cop would make a comment about Batman being broodier and darker than expected, and then the other cop would say something like, "yeah', he's grown darker after what the clown did to robin" or whatever the fuck.
Such line would have made the transition from the estalbished Batman to a more darker, crazier Batman.
But Snyder sucks so...
>>81726995
You fall apart at the HAS/CAN'T/BE/NOT. They chose a direction to make the movie and went with it. It's not weak because you think Bruce should know more than Lex. Lex has about a little of a notion of Superman's humanity than Bruce.
Your argument about Superman being humanized is honestly nuanced. Clearly for Batman him being humanized reduces him to an equal that can be interacted with, rather than an unstoppable force that he already thought was corruptible.
>>81727222
It's such bull. He said that Batman shot that mutant "right between the eyes." The comic didn't convey that at all.
>>81726562
Top kek.
>>81727226
Well I see your point, but I would consider it an alternate universe in of itself. One where Jason got wrecked and Tim didn't safety net bruce at all. Or Dick in general never left to make room for Jason and the first and only Robin got killed. I mean sure an exposition line would probably be great but seeing the lack of a new robin and the suit as it is in images.
I just assume every cape movie is never going to follow the main timeline ever so I was pretty open right from the beginning. I suppose it sounds like it could have used to proof reading, but even then we've seen it done before, I'm sure some bits could be acceptable.
>>81726562
I would gladly die for Darkseid after seeing this shit movie.
>>81727437
This. Watching Man of Steel should have already prepared someone to see a Justice League very different from the comics.
>>81726562
>DARKSEID COMICS
>DC
I know this joke has probably been done before, but that's pretty gud.
>>81726730
>There was literally a sequence of him saving people other than Lois
That sequence was so saturated and moodily performed that it managed to be completely devoid of heroism.
>>81727378
>You fall apart at the HAS/CAN'T/BE/NOT. They chose a direction to make the movie and went with it.
And you failed at reading. I fully recognize that the movie goes the way they're going because that's the decision they make. My argument isn't that Bruce SHOULD know more than Lex but rather that the line of logic that the movie puts forth can only work if he doesn't.
There is no version of the events in BvS that allows for Bstman to have that information before the climax, because the climax hinges on it. That's fact. If you do a version where he knows and doesn't care, then how does that not necessitate a change in events with the whole "Save Martha" thing? The context completely changes. It can't not.
Bruce can't know Clark's secret identity, because then he knows Clark has a mother, and the fight goes out of him half an hour into the movie.
And do you mean "reasoned with" rather than interacted with? Because punching someone in the face is an interaction.
>>81727574
>That sequence was so saturated and moodily performed that it managed to be completely devoid of heroism
I don't agree. It conveyed how even though the world fears him and may not want his help, he is still trying and there's still people out there who believe he is doing the right thing.
>>81727576
>the line of logic that the movie puts forth can only work if he doesn't.
So the movie fails because it logically follows what it put forth? You failed at comprehension
>There is no version of the events in BvS that allows for Bstman to have that information before the climax, because the climax hinges on it.
Again, though erroneous, why does this matter? Bruce didn't have the means to find Superman's identity at any point in the movie, besides the cliche glasses bullshit.
>>81725463
It'd sure be nice if they explained that. Because lets face it, outside of here, most normies have not. To the average asshole with an ass in the seat, if they know who flash is, then they are wondering why and how he time traveled into a dream.
>>81727677
Fuck normies. Marvel teases Thanos and the infinity gauntlet and normies read yahoo news and facebook trending to find out. Who cares.
The scene was very much worth it and cool if you knew about Injustice and Flashpoint
>>81727654
>So the movie fails because it logically follows what it put forth? You failed at comprehension
Show me where I say the movie failed. You're so busy trying to defend this thing that you're seeing criticism where there wasn't any.
What I'm saying, ALL I'm saying, is that the movie's characterizations are engineered for its climax and can't be compared to any other stories or contexts. What works in other stories won't work here, because those literally aren't the same Batman and Superman. If you put those Batman and Superman into this story in place of the ones we got, it changes enough that the plot no longer works.
>>81727749
it didn't look like flash at all to more than half of my DC loving friends they just sort of agreed that it HAD to be him because who else would it be?
it was shit storytelling and presentation
Unbias cold hard fact, Gal Gadot ruined Wonder Woman and the movie.
>>81724944
>Bats-crazy
What was wrong with that? Made perfect sense and entirely in-character.
>>81727818
you're saying it's bad because YOU didn't realise it was Flash? you're just a dumb cunt
>>81724995
I dare you to name even ONE time Alfred has been bad. Comics, movies, cartoons, whatever. Alfred was even good in ASBAR. The man is immune to bad writing.
Literally every one of those things is good.
He really did take the comics and copy paste them on screen. If it was any good, that's up to you.
But if you like collect comics you should have loved every second.
Every character except maybe lex was perfect.
>>81727755
You're right, I just don't understand what you're getting at.
>What works in other stories won't work here, because those literally aren't the same Batman and Superman.
Ok
>If you put those Batman and Superman into this story in place of the ones we got, it changes enough that the plot no longer works.
In a way yes and in a way not really.
Again, why does this matter?
>>81727823
This is true.
>Pa "Maybe you should have let them die" Kent
>Martha "You don't owe them anything so fuck'em" Kent
How did Superman get any of his heroic morales with such shitty role models for parents? They literally set him up to be a huge egotistical asshole.
>>81727818
>it HAD to be him because who else would it be
>it was shit storytelling and presentation
I don't get it
>>81726654
>He has a family that can be held in hostage to force him do to bad things
Except he doesn't. The first thing he does is try to talk to Batman and get his help, him you fucking mongoloid.
>>81727629
> It conveyed how even though the world fears him and may not want his help, he is still trying and there's still people out there who believe he is doing the right thing.
Preach brother!
>>81727677
fuck you dense fuckers complain about everything
if they do explain it yall complain about
DURRR SHOW NOT TELL IDIOT SNYDER
>>81727872
>Again, why does this matter?
Within the context of this thread, it matters people are trying to make sense of the movie using irrelevant data. In the grand scheme of things, Why does any of this matter? It's just a stupid movie.
>>81727896
>They're teaching him to be more human vs teaching him morals.
This is actually pretty funny.
I think what they taught him was perfect.
>>81727552
>>DARKSEID COMICS
>>DC
>>52
>>52
>>52
FFffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
>>81727844
>>81727898
It looked like a hobo stole Flash's suit
>>81727903
>The first thing he does is try to talk to Batman and get his help,
Second thing. First thing was "The Bat is Dead!" which then means it should be obvious that the whole asking for help thing wouldn't fly,
>>81727896
Morals and motivations aren't the same. He got his motivations from necessity at first, and eventually from Jor-El and Zod, I'd say.
It wasn't that bad. I thought it was pretty interesting.
>>81727896
I find Martha's to be particularly insulting because this version of Superman ESPECIALLY owes the Earth something. Zod's arrival was a DIRECT RESULT OF HIS ACTIONS. He damn well better make up for that.
Never mind that he went to public schools, used public libraries, and generally benefited greatly from having one a functioning goddamn society around him while growing up. Hell, I bet the Kent farm was even government subsidized. Point is, nigga owes.
>>81727844
Deflect as hard as you want DC shill, that shit wasn't clear at all to at least 7 people who pick up DC comics every week and were hype as fuck for the movie
I knew it was Flash since I knew who the ladyboy that is going to play him looks like, that's probably the only reason, also Timetravel=Flash.
The movie was shit, move on
>>81727898
it was a bad movie written and directed by retards
>>81727896
I'll give you Pa but you need to kill yourself if you disagree with what Martha said to him.
She's right and in the movie they still showed him picking the right thing to do.
He doesn't owe Earth shit, even after Zod. You wouldn't either if you were him.
>you're not even from here but you need to put your life on the line for the whole planet, half of which hates you because of some stupid faggots like this poster.
With great power comes choice not responsibility. Uncle ben was a fucky retard and so are you if you think Superman HAS to be Superman.
>>81727931
You're getting too meta. I'm just trying to shill this movie.
>>81727966
That I can agree with
>>81728080
>I'm just trying to shill this movie.
Well stop. Go do something constructive.
>>81724944
A train wreck.
>>81728036
That's not fair, Zod coming to earth was something else entirely. He didn't owe anything to anyone, especially since he had no power over anyone but himself. Zod was gonna do what he was going to do anyway, the fact that the earth wasn't entirely terraformed by the end of the movie absolves him of any responsibility in general.
>>81728039
holy shit confirmed retard
>>81728097
I spend all day doing that, now's my time to relax
>>81728069
Superman is supposedly a hero so the whole "fuck them who cares you don't have to do shit" isn't a very heroic viewpoint for his mother to take
>>81728116
lol he mad! Cry more faggot maybe Snyder will make a good DC film someday? Make sure Goyer writes it too you double nigger
>>81728113
I'm not saying every death is on his head. I'm saying the planet is worse off for his existence. If he has any shred of human decency (and this movie seems to be trying REALLY HARD to prove that he doesn't) then he should at least feel some obligation to try and make it right.
>>81728167
Well is the planet really worse off for his existence? You have to remember prior to everything else he was just a dude job hopping and saving things whereever he was. Zod was the instigator of the whole fight.
I don't think that's specifically clark's fault.
>>81726562
>MASTURBATING TO HARLEY QUINN ON COMMAND
I cum for Darkseid!
The Flash was the absolute worst thing in this movie. The motherfucker didn't even TRIED to look like Barry, he had the same fucking "hipster tranny" look he had in EVERY SINGLE OTHER MOVIE HE HAS BEEN IN. Barry Allen, the fastest gay hobo alive.
Goddamit I'm mad.
>>81725986
My guess is he started losing it when his Robin died, and lost it completly after Metropolis.
I thought it fit well with this Batman too.
>>81728226
>Well is the planet really worse off for his existence?
YES! Absolutely! 100 fucking percent.
If we can't at least agree to that, I don't really see any point in discussing this. Snyderverse-Earth would have been fine if Kal-El had never landed there.
>>81728120
Except nobody who matters thinks he's a hero.
He's just some guy with powers who is very clearly confused about what he should do. He himself doesn't think he is a hero, he doesn't have any heroic morals. He's trying to help because he can, it doesn't mean he should and Martha tells him the best thing she can tell a son who is lost. That either way he will be okay and that he doesn't have to carry that weight if he doesn't want to. That he has a choice.
Jor El was the only one who wanted him to be a god hero in the first place.
>>81724944
MARTHA!!!!!!!
>>81728298
Clark didn't do anything substantial by himself to earn an outright negation of his existence. The whole thing with Zod was out of his hands, maybe if kryptonians had a death penalty instead of phantom zone things would have been better in general.
>>81728226
>Well is the planet really worse off for his existence?
For his existence, yes, for his presence, no. There's a weird and subtle distinction there. Like, if he had all the same powers but a different origin, then it'd be a net gain for humanity. But because they decided to tie his very genetic code into the villain's motivation let alone have him unwittingly summon Zod, that murkies things up for audiences.
>>81728338
No I mean the character of Superman, who you should at least try to emulate when making a movie about him.
I'm all for creative vision but if you corrupt core values of those characters in your movie then congrats you should have just made a movie with your own original characters instead
>>81728339
speaks
>>81728373
Zod came to Earth FOR THE GODDAMN CODEX. As dumb a plot point as that was, that's why he came. Negating Clark from the equation is the fastest solution. Jor-El presses launch button. Ship blows up on pad. Zod and company eventually die of old age in space because they're too retarded to fuck. Earth is fine.
The end.
>>81728298
>Ship already on Earth before Kal
>Some human stumbles upon the ship and activates it
>the military was already investigating it
>that was the whole reason he even knew to go there as a lead
>Zod comes
>no superman to save planet
Yeah no, fuck yourself you stupid piece of shit.
>>81728390
That's true, but I suppose that's his dad's fault for giving him the genetics of all the krytonians ontop of the kryptonian court system for not having a death penalty. Circumstance is shit and I can understand that.
But I mean like saying "Superman shouldn't exist because everything else is working against him" is silly.
>>81728439
>they're too retarded to fuck
I don't actually believe that, I'm fairly sure they would surely fuck as it's already known they don't do it anymore but the knowledge isn't lost.
![latest[3].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/XP1Plwr.jpg "latest[3].jpg")
>>81728439
>"hey kal-el, it's me, zod, can I have the genetic information of our entire race? You're not really planning on doing much with it but I think it'd be possible to rebuild our species using it, we got this nice terraformer so we'll just be off and find a planet and you can come visit every now and then if you like to see some of your own people and what not, I know me and your dad had some beef but that's nothing to do with you and I'm ready to put that in the past lol, I was a damn crazy fool then huh? well anyway, let me know what you choose to do, nice to meet you."
I probably would have preferred that to MoS probably.
It's got an "idiot plot" , the movie that requires it's main characters to be idiots in order for the plot to work and zod is just evil because he's a bad guy.
>>81728406
Not him but isn't that specifically why the multiverse exists as a thing?
The characters don't have to be faithful to the main timeline ever, it's literally the different ways in which superman could be that isn't the main timeline.
>>81724944
AVGN knows whats up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3iEn5rzMnw&feature=youtu.be&t=781
>>81727980
>First thing was "The Bat is Dead!" which then means it should be obvious that the whole asking for help thing wouldn't fly,
Yes, that happened earlier, but it had nothing to do with kidnapping Clark's family for blackmail whatsoever. That was just Clark being manipulated by Luthor.
>>81728589
Didn't he already get warned off of Zod by his hologram dad before then though?
>>81724995
I'm gonna be really stupid and lazy hereyes, i can just google but whateverWas Alfred Ironman?
>>81728627
zod doesn't fucking know that, the first thing he does is try and get the entire world to start a manhunt for him.
He didn't even fucking try just asking for it.
>>81728589
>
It's got an "idiot plot" , the movie that requires it's main characters to be idiots in order for the plot to work
Batman v Superman has the worst case of this since Prometheus. The entire 2.5 hour long story relies on Batman and Superman never talking, and in fact none of the characters ever talking to anyone at any point pretty much.
>>81728698
So he's clearly a soldier that comes from a race that produces babies from cloning and terraforms planets regardless of that planet's inhabitants so they can live there themselves, and he seems to not know diplomacy.
It's true to his character and I really don't see an issue behind zod being like that.
>>81724944
>there are seriously people ITT defending Snyder and this utter travesty of a movie
>>81728591
Of course, magic timestamp anon, but the moment we accept the multiverse as the canon reason for the DCEU's plot we must then immediately acknowledge the accompanying conclusion that the only path for redemption for these characters, as established by decades of continuity, is to be defeated by the real Justice League and learn humility.
>>81727677
I said it in another thread a week ago, this movie was not made for normies.
>>81726995
>he makes a Kryptonite ring
Traditionally, Superman first gives Batman the Krypronite ring as a sign of friendship and then Bruce uses it against Clark in a later story.
>>81728777
I haven't even see BvS but I'm not seeing what went wrong when it's established as a multiverse movie. Like the only valid complaint I've actually read is that the first act was weak. Someone please tell me something.
>>81728775
It can be true to his character and still be dumb, it just means he's a dumb character.
It's a completely unsympathetic mustache twirling villain with not a hint of subtlety about him, him trying to lazer a generic nuclear family unit is the snyder equivalent of taking candy from a baby and laughing about it.
>>81727226
>My main isue with Batman killing is that it's just an integral part of his character, and you CANNOT (or, well, should not) present a new version of the character that contradicts previous interations
Live action Batman has always killed, even '66 accidentally killed henchmen in the movie.
>without at least providing SOME clear context as to why the character is darke and shit.
But they do present you context. Robin died, Bruce lost hope, he's become increasingly brutal and vicious, he thinks defeating Superman might be his one thing that might make a difference in the world, he's manipulated throughout the movie to go to the deep end...
>>81728794
>plot we must then immediately acknowledge the accompanying conclusion that the only path for redemption for these characters
There doesn't need to be redemption though, the idea that some people thing they're garbage or not can't taint what the mainstream is/was.
All I've seen all thread is people going on and on about how "This Superman and Batman are not my Superman and Batman, haha clark's parents told him to kill everyone".
When it's literally they can't be seriously held to the standards of the main timeline.
>>81727855
How about back when he was a just fat, bumbling wannabe Sherlock Holmes whose job was to be a comedic relief. Or when he died, came back to life as the Outsider, only then to get cured of his evil supervillainess.
>>81728936
Not redemption in the "they're shitty" sense.
Redemption in the "they're supervillains" sense.
How come no one cares when Jor El and Han Solo kill people?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8oDgViJAxtw
>>81725505
Well, remember that poor old innocent refueling truck driver who get blown up by Batty recklessness during car chase?
>>81728893
I think that's more of a crucial failing to his character in general, not a flaw.
He is straight up a villain villain with the mindset of "I want what I want" and it makes him "predictable".
He gonna demand the thing and when he doesn't get it he's gonna kill everyone. Yeah I could see that from a mile away but that's literally his skill set.
>>81728589
Why does /co/ want to forget that Zod is a lunatic?
>>81724944
You can thank Snyder to give us an autistic Superman who is unable to communicate with common folks. You hardly see him talking and interacting with the crowds. No wonder they see him as a menace.
>>81728965
Oh well, I understand then, but I have some objections of tainting the main timeline with anything DCEU.
>>81728601
Theoretically Flash could "time" travel back into a dream. That isn't what happened in the film because you still see all the papers shuffling after Bruce wakes up but whatever
>>81728970
Because Han Solo kills Greedo within his first minute on screen?
A BIG part of Batman's character is not killing. That doesn't mean that no hero can ever kill anyone in a movie.
>>81728832
Good luck getting any legitimate criticism, especially when there's an autistic anon here hating on the Flash scene because he's too dumb to realise who it was
>>81729038
>>81729026
Ditto, but if Cavill wants to make a short YouTube clip in his spare time of beating himself up on a space greenscreen wearing different costumes, that would instantly redeem everything going on right now.
>>81728970
>How come no one cares when Jor El and Han Solo kill people?
How come no one cares when Godzilla kills people. How come no one cares when Hannibal Lector kills people? How come no one treats all characters like they're exactly the same?
>>81729069
Is that Odessey. That's just cheating
>>81728623
>Yes, that happened earlier, but it had nothing to do with kidnapping Clark's family for blackmail whatsoever.
I didn't mean to imply it did, sorry. I mean like, if you rip the hood off a guy's car and then wave your dick in his face, what do you THINK he's going to do when you come back the next day asking for help? No shit he's going to tell you to fuck off.
>>81728970
Because Jor El and Han Solo aren't exactly bound to a moral code. One coming from a race of conquerers and the other being a smuggler in general.
>>81728484
That's kind of the problem with writing from the ending backwards; contrivances happen way more frequently that way.
>>81729009
I'm a little worried that every character acting nonsensically is a result of them being insane. Bruce is insane, Lex is insane, Zod is insane.
It doesn't give me a lot of hope for Darkseid being any different. So far the only non "he's insane" antagonist in this universe is Doomsday.
Really think about that for a second.
>>81729069
I would pay all the money to see Zack Snyder adapt Odyssey.
He couldn't make it any more confusing, at least.
>>81729140
Other people have done it before, it's not the first and is definitely not the last, but I don't take all batman I see as the main timeline batman.
See >>81727437
>>81724944
THANK YOU!
My dad said it was amazing; I then asked him to tell me what was so great. He couldn't piece it together and my dad and I have been DC fan's for a long ass time. He as a kid till now in his 50's and me as a kid till now in my 20's.
but this movie was an abomination and everything about it was just nonsense.
The biggest reason this movie got off the ground is cause everyone in the world that loves DC the slightest, even our ages, want to see a live action JLA. We've wanted this for ages, we've wanted the right people and we've wanted a good script.
Good thing:
We are not like Japan and make almost every anime a god damn live action show if we can
Bad thing:
We are not like India and make 10xs more movies a year and 99% of them are just awful fanfiction like writing
Neutral thing:
Atleast we want something and willing to put an effort into it, but this could of worked back during the dark knight times
Batman doesn't kill
superman wouldn't atk someone like that for no reason
I don't remember Diana ever having an accent like that
The story was all over the place
The dream sequence made no sense
Lex was alright but they made him basically joker crazy
The acting was amazing, I like Batflack however, I didn't like the movie
>>81726862
Here's the truth behind it all what people want to say but their too afraid on /co/:
Everyone here has been wanting to see a Batman Superman movie since the dawn of DC comics. They wont admit to that this movie was a tragic mistake of writing and want more of it but know it's actually a giant piece of garbage. That's the biggest problem.
>>81727222
this is called "covering my ass" and he never actually did shit, what if Synder was in the thread and he's doing all this
>>81725986
Pretty much this.
>>81728450
>Ship already on Earth before Kal
>Some human stumbles upon the ship and activates it
They can't. Clark was only able to because of his space key. They can't even synthesize it because the movie specifically tells us that the means of activating the ship is made of elements that don't exist on earth.
So at best, they'd be able to reverse engineer the technology by taking it apart, which wouldn't send a beacon for Zod to pick up.
>>81729012
Man Of Steel honours Superman for what he is and was, but without stagnation. Having him open on a fishing boat was great, and a good way to show Superman as the every-man he's always been, but gave us a Clark Kent that was more relatable; if you take the nostalgia-goggles off and watch Reeve, it's a little weird. No one talks or acts like that any more (if they ever even did - as someone who grew up rural, Reeve-Superman was less "salt of the earth" and more "what Hollywood writers think salt of the earth is." Reeve-Kent is more of a 'character' than any person who you might potentially believe could exist) and having Brandon Routh come back with that same sort of persona was a bad call - I don't fault either actor for it, it worked for the time with Reeve and they were trying it again with Routh. But it was a mistake, I think, it return to that aggressively-asexual, grinning aloofness.
MoS gave us a more realistic Clark, and also probably the best Lois we've ever gotten, at least in live action. Finally, Lois is no longer a victim, no longer just a love interest, no longer the plaything of an invulnerable alien (seriously! He gets her pregnant, wipes her mind, and leaves! How do people worship these movies?!) Amy Adams' Lois is smart, capable, and demonstrably a good reporter. I've seen a lot of people say they want to see a Batman movie really show Batman as a detective, and I agree. And seeing a Lois who figures out who Superman is instead of depending on his magnanimity to show himself when he feels like it was a small taste, I think, of what that would be like. I'm not one to normally care about "women's representation in the media," but I loved to finally see Lois as a character; still beautiful, still slightly googly-eyed by this chiseled god-man, but not totally vacant and devoid of a personality.
>>81729216
Relax, Anon. Darkseid isn't insane, he's intortus.Because he's a cloud.
>>81729278
OKay so you say something like this
>Here's the truth behind it all what people want to say but their too afraid on /co/:
>Everyone here has been wanting to see a Batman Superman movie since the dawn of DC comics. They wont admit to that this movie was a tragic mistake of writing and want more of it but know it's actually a giant piece of garbage. That's the biggest problem.
And I think I can understand but then you say things like
>Batman doesn't kill
>superman wouldn't atk someone like that for no reason
>I don't remember Diana ever having an accent like that
and I just don't understand. Because it has very little relation to the characters you're actually thinking of.
>>81729278
When I saw the thumbnail I thought I saw a pile of hotdogs. When I clicked it I was disappointed to find DEET DEET DEET instead of hotdogs.
I thought the time traveler was Rip Hunter. Would've made more sense.
>>81729309
Anon, do you think deep down, people are basically good and just want to live their lives, or that deep down, people are naturally predisposed to being assholes?
>>81729309
I will just say the common retort against MoS is "Superman is supposed to be a symbol." To that, I kind of disagree. If "being a symbol" means inspiring people (in-universe and in the real world) and so forth, than absolutely. But I don't think that was ever meant to come between him having a personality, being someone you can actually relate to.
Secondly, a symbol is only powerful if it works and resonates with people. MoS is a Superman for a post-9/11 America, for a world where there is less idealism and more cynicism, for a world that isn't coming out of WWII but rather now has experienced wars that span a decade or more, with vaguely defined victory conditions. Truth and Justice? Truth is relative nowadays, and justice seems arbitrary, at least to many. Now, I'm not saying what Superman represents needs to change (and I don't think it has), but how he represents it did, and MoS has started to do that. DoJ looks like it will take it further.
We live in a world where teens, 20-somethings, and 30-somethings are more likely to idolize Deadpool, the Joker, or Harley Quinn than Superman. If we keep showing the world a joke, then Superman has lost all efficacy as a symbol, and, indeed, undermines the very things he is supposed to be symbolizing.
In summary, a new Reeve Superman fails because it is desperately grasping at a cultural milieu that no longer exists, and tells a story that no one, save nostalgic fans, even wants to hear. MoS may have had problems in execution (I totally disagree with that, but it's a popular notion), but at least it wasn't beating a dead horse.
>>81729418
9/11's greatest evil is not the people it killed, but how it ruined movies forever. I'm so fucking bored and miserable with 9/11 and Bush administration shit in movies.
I'm sorry how do people get mad at this batman for killing people not understand that being mad about that is like being mad about this batman being a nazi because the regular batman isn't a nazi.
>>81729418
>But I don't think that was ever meant to come between him having a personality, being someone you can actually relate to.
The thing is, even when he's at his most boy scout, that doesn't mean he doesn't have a personality. It doesn't mean that no one can relate to him. I mean hell, I *was* a boy scout, so I can relate to Clark being a boy scout.
Having said that, I also find it strange how after two movies of Clark intentionally being alienated and removed and shut off from humanity in order to further his outsider status, people are still saying that he's "relatable". He isn't, and he's intentionally not.
>ut how he represents it did, and MoS has started to do that. DoJ looks like it will take it further.
...Wait. This is copypasta, isn't it? Because DoJ is already out, didn't do that, and has been branded a failure by those same Deadpool fans you're blaming for the failure of Superman.
>>81729370
Maybe it's cause I liked the cartoons/animation more than movies. But as my dad said, don't think of the movies and the comics as the same universe, you're just going to have a bad time.
>>81729522
Don't ever let the SJWs see this
>>81729278
>Batman doesn't kill
Please, that's new testament batman, old testament batman wasn't a bitch. Maybe Snyder is a bigger fan then you think.
>>81729582
>But as my dad said, don't think of the movies and the comics as the same universe, you're just going to have a bad time.
/co/ has never learned and never will learn this lesson when it comes to adaptations.
>>81729582
>But as my dad said, don't think of the movies and the comics as the same universe, you're just going to have a bad time.
This is exactly the issue I'm having because I'm trying to see whether or not it's a decent movie but everyone is complaining about how it compromises the characters that are NOT EVEN APART OF THE MAINSTREAM
>>81725571
You get that this was essentially Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" cynical, completely disillusioned Batman, and that interacting with Clark and witnessing his bravery was the beginning of his redemption arc, right?
"You're not brave. Men are brave."
>comes to see him as a man
>witnesses his bravery
>>81729140
"Cheating" my ass.
>>81724995
I thought he was too young. Or Batman was too old. Alfred is supposed to be like his father, but Bruce and him looked the same age in this. They were more like brothers.
>>81726562
So, is there no masturbation outside Earth 33?
>>81729593
Almost in anything, he has made a point not to save someone, but he's not killed them.
Letting someone die is not the same. But I don't remember a time where Batman took a gun to someone. I mean the amt of times he's had the chance to just off the Joker but not, that should tell you something
>>81729615
>>81729618
the issue is that most of us want a 1:1 ratio with anything comic book related. To compare, in HP, (I don't remember which book. I think the 6th or 7th) when the Weasly's house was blown up, that never happened in the book, it was made to be more interesting. Question is why?
But at the same time, it's like in Arrow when Diggle said to Olive"You actually understood a Harry potter reference"
"Yeah I read the books"
"I figured you'd seen the movies"
"There's movies?"
As comic book fans, we will always want to see a very close relative to this. Even if it's off a little, it's still to say that we need something that will work out in the end. It's really stupid, but hell, you know, it's like seeing 10 different versions of the same characters, like the what if series.
>>81729593
>>81729648
Y'all mothafuckas need to go rewatch the final episode of Batman The Brave and The Bold right now. Matter of fact, I'm gonna join you.
>>81729654
A strange choice to start the Justice League and cinematic universe with a graying Bruce.
>>81729012
They cut all the fucking scenes where Clark goes out as a reporter investigating Batman or the scenes where Superman talk with reporters,
This shit just... i don't know what kind of decision making the editor went.
>>81724944
>Batman killing anything that moves, and literally ROLLING OVER PEOPLE WITH THE BATMOBILE
Batman kills in literally every other movieapart from Batman & Robin
>Superman doesn't care about anyone as long as Lois is safe
What? He saves a bunch of other people during the movie and literally gives up his life to save the world. Name a single instance where he let other people come to harm in order to save Lois
>The overuse of meta shit
What? Do you mean Meta-humans? Sure the cameos/teases where incredibly out of place but how can 2 minutes be called over used?
>FLASH TIME TRAVELING INTO A DREAM
It wasn't a dream. It was that possible future bleeding into Bruces memory as a side effect of Barry coming back to him.
>Wonder Woman is sudenly the smartest human being on earth
What?
>Bruce just going crazy town banana pants the WHOLE FUCKING MOVIE
Batman has always been crazy, he's a grown ass man that dresses up like a Bat. This version is just a little more crazy because he's been through some more shit.
>And sudenly everyone have become friends
Congratulations. You managed to make a single actual criticism that's correct.1/7 is pretty bad though anon.
I just saw the movie for the first time and I went in pretty much knowing what to expect. The one thing that I hadn't seen mentioned was how pivotal Supe's ship was to the plot. I mean after the first MoS movie it was clearly shown that the ship was amazingly powerful to the point where it could basically recreate a nearly perfect hologram of Jor El. You'd think Supe's would want to keep the ship somewhere safe and explore all the information in the computer to learn more about Krypton. I mean Supe's even states at one point in the movie that Krypton is his home. Instead it's like he loses track of the ship or something, like its almost as if he forgot the ship even exists. Even within the movie's own internal universe logic the idea that Supe's would just blow off his own ship like that makes no sense.
>>81727408
Well, he definitely shot him, and given that the next panel is that guy slumped on the floor with his blood staining the wall behind him, I'd say the implications are pretty clear.
>>81729792
It was obvious to me that the government took the ship and Superman didn't felt like forcing his hand after everything that happened.
>>81729708
I can see where you're coming from and I see it differently I guess.
I'm alright with crazy bullshit happening because I've accepted the multiverse as a way to spice up the dc line up with bullshit that generally wouldn't fly with the characters.
If the acting was shit, I would understand, if the cinematography was bad I would understand, if the story in of itself was rife with contradictions I would totally understand.
But absolutely none of it means anything if the basis of the criticism is the comic lines they come from and not the actual movie. It means on a fan level you hate it and therefore it's a shit dc movie for standards that it can't meet because it's not trying to meet those specific standards whatsoever.
The Last Airbender fails not only as a Avatar film but as a movie in general because it was bad all around. But no one is unbiasing themselves and saying where it fails as a movie.
Fucking look at
>>81729270
>>81727437
>>81729069
I would love to see movies of those knowing full well they are not main continuity, are people going to be mad seeing more batman movies where he kills someone? They should know it's not even the batman they're thinking about.
>>81729777
>Batman kills in literally every other movie
Wrong. That doesn't happen.
>Name a single instance where he let other people come to harm in order to save Lois
Every single time he saved her instead of fighting Luthor/Doomsday
>ow can 2 minutes be called over used?
Proper use would have been 2 seconds.
>It was that possible future bleeding into Bruces memory as a side effect of Barry coming back to him.
That's absolute shit. It's presented as a dream and never explained.
>Batman has always been crazy
You're an idiot.
Just wanted to add:
>MARTHAAAAAAAA
I think i'm going mad here or maybe i'm just forgetful, but to me Batman didn't killed anyone directly. He was more like "Is up to God" in the way he did things. For example when he went to save Superman's mom. He didn't shoot KGBeast in his face, he shot the canister and then covered Superman's mom with his cape already counting on KGBeast stupidity. Then when KGBeast tried to burn them the canister exploded taking him out. So technically Batman didn't kill him, KGBeast killed himself.
Or else why didn't he used guns, then? Because he didn't wanted to directly kill. He wanted just to... sorta kill. Is up to God, after all.
Kinda like a more cynical Christian Bale''s Batman. YOU KNOW THAT RA'S SHIT WAS BULLSHIT. NO, BALE, YOU KILLED RA'S!
>>81729925
>Every single time he saved her instead of fighting Luthor/Doomsday
You mean in the last fight, when Wonder Woman was keeping DD at bay?
>>81729887
>are people going to be mad seeing more batman movies where he kills someone?
Why didn't he kill the Joker?
>>81729925
>Wrong. That doesn't happen.
Batman killed in...
BATMAN
BATMAN RETURNS
BATMAN FOREVER
BATMAN BEGINS
THE DARK KNIGHT
THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
And i think that he killed a few henchmen in the Adam West's Batman show. I'm not sure.
>>81729935
He's still using lethal force.
>This movie is choosing to take the character somewhere new and different!
>Batman has killed in every movie. Batman loves to kill. Here he goes killing again.
Pick one.
>>81729654
Alfred is just four years older than Bruce. Just imagine what this was like when Bruce's parents were killed and he was left with like a thirteen year old kid to raise him.
>>81729944
Who knows?
>>81729967
no
he
didn't
What the fuck is wrong with you?
>>81729982
Both statements are true.
>>81729982
>my dead mom's gonna freak
>>81729982
As far as what made batman able to kill people I'd say it's different. They all had different motivations, but this new one where Dick/Jason dies and there's no new Robin is better.
It's the what if Tim never stepped in scenario.
>>81730003
He did, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psVIG7YvdjM
>>81729887
>It means on a fan level you hate it and therefore it's a shit dc movie
It's worse than that. DC and WB chose to give us what are essentially Superman: Year One and Two set within the context of the "Returns" universe and let us see him grow into the icon we know and love slowly, over the course of several movies, exploring what his role is and how he fits into society, while struggling to sidestep the god hood humanity keeps offering him on a silver platter, and the majority of complaints reduce to "not muh Superman."
That's the entire point.
Starting with morally infallible, supremely confident Superman leaves you with no story to tell beyond boring, generic escapism of the worst sort.
>>81730003
Not him, I'm pretty positive he killed in Batman+Batman Returns, can't say for the rest honestly.
>>81730003
>no
>he
>didn't
Not him but he literally pushed a guy off a tower in the first movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psVIG7YvdjM&nohtml5=False
>>81730021
Superman stopped Batman from killing the Joker in Death in the Family, for example. Then Tim Drake made Batman mellow out when he became too brutal and suicidal from grief.
Wonder woman had her armor and sword in her carry on bags on a plane.
>>81729887
>not meeting the standards
It's not that, I got over the fact of the Flash where they made the West's black and Jimmy in Supergirl black. IDC about that any more
But in this, the story was a jumbled mess, there was no point for batman to kill, he ran people over, he shot people, he didn't really use his bat weapons at all, cept a handful. At that, it's like seeing the Flash use some sort of running thing to speed up when he's fast as fuck but saying"yo know I don't want to waste my energy, so instead, I'm going to do this instead"
I wouldn't mind the concepts of these heroes here if they at least made some since as to why what was going on in the first place
>>81730056
So this is a universe where neither Superman nor Tim are there to pull Bruce back, which makes this an instantly different way to go.
>>81730051
Christian Bale pissed me off because he was constantly going on about the goddamn his no-kill rule despite dropping niggas dead left and right.
Michael Keaton was full psychopath. So i don't hold it against him. The dude was honest. He killed with a grim on his face.
Bale, thought? He planned Ra's death and then "I don't have to save you". That's pure bullshit. The dude is a ninja but there are limits. No way Ra's would survive that collision. Then he killed Two-Face. Then he killed Talia's goon.
Fuck, Bale killed a goddamn dog in TDK. A fucking dog. Fuck him.
>>81730094
>Bale killed a goddamn dog in TDK
MY
DUOOGS
ARE
HUN-GRAYYYY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF6TMoTRfNU
>>81729925
>Wrong. That doesn't happen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn_FMsoTkGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psVIG7YvdjM
He literally kills with a smile for fun in the Burton films
>Every single time he saved her instead of fighting Luthor/Doomsday
But Bats and Wonder Woman were keeping him occupied. Not a single person was killed or hurt while he was saving Lois there, plus he got the spear which ultimately stopped Doomsday at the same time.
>Proper use would have been 2 seconds.
Because cape movies never have cameos/teases. The only thing wrong with those in BvS was how out of place they were.
>That's absolute shit. It's presented as a dream and never explained.
Not if you were actually watching. There were papers flying everywhere.
>You're an idiot.
Do actual think Batman is perfectly sane? So what you're saying is you've never actually read a comic?
>>81726435
>This is worse than the martha memes
Can someone expain to me once and for all why some people think that's a good scene that people just don't understand?
How? What's more to get than "he realized Superman was a human like him"?
And yes, the trigger they used to make him realized that was that their moms have the same name.
What's the brilliance I'm missing here?
>that editing
>that dialogue
>that lack of establishing shots and over reliance on quick cuts
>that blatant theft from The Dark Knight Returns
Even without going into "not muh" this movie was a disgrace. FFS nobody's hair gets ruined in the Doomsday fight.
>>81730032
>>81730053
>>81730051
Calling BS on this. 99% of that was questionable at best.
Snyder fanboys please go.
>>81730069
>But in this, the story was a jumbled mess, there was no point for batman to kill, he ran people over, he shot people, he didn't really use his bat weapons at all, cept a handful. At that, it's like seeing the Flash use some sort of running thing to speed up when he's fast as fuck but saying"yo know I don't want to waste my energy, so instead, I'm going to do this instead"
Batman pretty much said that he left his no-killing rule and compared himself to a criminal. He even stated that his mission was a lie, that nobody remained good in Gotham, that criminals were like grass and so on and on. The movie gives you everything you need to understand that this is a Batman that lost his way.
Also the Flash was using a cosmic treadmill.
>>81730046
It's a moot point because it doesn't follow the same line of thinking since his "parents" didn't teach him to be morally infallable.
Because his parents tried to have him adapt to blend in and be more human rather then out himself as something more. That was the entire basis of why this superman is different from the normal superman.
I'm hard pressed to believe that being a fan of normal superman isn't getting in the way of seeing this superman as just another version of superman. Sure you can dislike this superman, but don't hold him to the standard of normal superman and claim that's specifically why everyone else shouldn't like him.
>>81730139
He attaches a bomb to a guy and throws down a hole in Batman Returns, that's fairly explicit.
>>81730139
>99% of that was questionable at best.
HE PUSHES A MAN OFF A TOWER WITH NO REMORSE.
>>81730094
The Bane kill was a total fucking cop out as well.
>>81730139
Burton's Batman was definitely a deliberate killer
Schumacher's killed in self-defense
Nolan's unintentionally killed due to a fuck up,and also killed in very circumstances where he was forced into doing it but had reprecussions.
>>81730134
Honestly? I don't get the "he realized Superman was human like him".
In my opinion he just finally realized that he had become his worst villain: Joe Chill. That's what the scene is about to me. Superman is laying there like Thomas Wayne and uttering Martha's name and Batman is on top of him with the murder weapon and Martha is going to die all over again and is because of him this time. That hit Batman like a brick and to me that's why he spared Superman and jumped on the chance to save a "Martha".
>>81729887
>But no one is unbiasing themselves and saying where it fails as a movie.
Come on man, people have done that for BvS, and people just respond whit "you're nitpickking" or "do you want to be spoonfed"
Like specifically, if you make note of the lack of establishing shots, which are a necessary film thing in order to reset the audience and to scene transitions properly, there are BvS fans that will bite your head off and rant about how *they* understood things perfectly and didn't need to be spoonfed and the movie was just too smart for people. I can literally go into the archive and find the exact posts that do this if you want.
There are absolutely people trying to be unbiased and objective about this film's quality. It doesn't fucking matter. NONE of the legitimate film flaws seem to matter because that of that one Batman scene.
>>81730127
No, I don't read comics, just like most everyone else.
>Do actual think Batman is perfectly sane?
Batman is not an unhinged lunatic barely keeping it together. He's got issues; that doesn't mean he acts like a fucking maniac.
>>81730134
>What's more to get than "he realized Superman was a human like him"?
Did you miss the flashback to his parents murder? He had become the man standing over his victim with the gun.
>>81730139
Anon, do you even know how to do percentages? Even if we were just to count only one of those as being an actual kill, that's still well over 1%.
>>81726562
if Darkseid brings me close to my waifu i will die for him
>>81730196
>i cannot into hyperbole
>>81730145
after you watch it 3 times, then you finally get the idea of what's going on. FLCL made more sense than this. It was still very confusing
>cosmic treadmill
Yes, I know that much, I'm saying AS he runs. The treadmill only makes him a little faster compared to like walking braces
>>81730191
>No, I don't read comics
>Batman is not an unhinged lunatic barely keeping it together.
How the fuck can you say those 2 things in the same comment? You admit you know nothing about Batman then try to say what Batman is. Try actually reading some comics. Check the /co/ recs
The movie spends a ton of time setting up that Batman hates Superman's guts, and that he's batshit insane, right? And you're telling me he doesn't kill Superman because he said his mom's name? I ain't buying it.
>>81730046
>Starting with morally infallible, supremely confident Superman leaves you with no story to tell beyond boring, generic escapism of the worst sort.
Except that's not even a little true. Starting with that Superman gives you the context for a hero's fall story rather than just skipping to that. Hell, you know how people are comparing this to Injustice? Injustice does just that. Birthright too. They build up Superman and THEN have something big happen that causes either him or the public relationship to him to sour.
You're arguing that starting with a morally fallible Superman allows him to grow into the classic model, and that's absolutely right. BUT it's riskier because you have to have an audience willing to stick around for the now at bare minimum 3 movies to get there. And even if you have that (all signs point to this not being the case but in theory it's sound) the inverse is still inverse is equally true.
Starting with an incorruptible Superman means he can be corrupted, and then he can be redeemed of that corruption. There's arc potential in both and it's really easy to see.
>>81730232
Batman doesn't exist solely in comic books you stupid fuck.
So... we all accept that this is just a straightforward supervillain origin story universe?
Okay. I'm fine with that. Does anyone have a problem with that?
Decent flick then.
>>81730148
Not to mention that his parents tells him that it is his choice and in the end Cavill's Superman still choose to be a hero.
I understand wanting the classic Superman where Jonathan Kent tells him to be a hero with his dying breath and Superman goes into the world trying to save everybody and change the world both because he's good and because he has a mora obligation, but...
I still like that in MoS and BvS the choice is entirely of Superman. People give him shit, Lex tried to turn the entire world against him, Batman wanted to kill him and yet he still chose to be a hero despite all that.
That's pretty Super to me.
>saw movie with friends
>they love it say its mature and fuck marvel amarite?
>ask my opinion
movie was shit.SHIT.too much plots,too long,too dark for he sake of being dark.the trailer was better than the movie and everyone was a terrible character in this movie except for wonder woman who was just OK but came out of nowhere in the last fight. i came here for BATMAN v SUPERMAN with some hints at the justice league not the ultimates vs abomination.the death of superman and the justice league teasing were beyond lazy and batman was the fucking punisher. what was even lex motivation?being an atheist?this movie.
>>81730242
It's not straightforward at all. The movie is a fucking mess.
>>81730189
I wish this had become the meme defense instead because while the movie doesn't frame it properly, it's at least more interesting and doesn't have as many flaws in it as the "he was humanized" non-counter-argument..
>>81730242
If this was Midnighter v Sentry, it would explain some stuff. But it's still a pretty bad movie regardless.
>>81730232
He's a sheltered idiot that thinks the watered down child friendly version in the cartoons is the only valid interpretation of Batman anon.
>>81730190
I am seriously open to real criticism, all I've been saying it stop talking about how batman kills people, stop talking about superman's motivations.
When people say that alongside "The storytelling was bad" I can immediately say they, more then likely, are mad because of the characters doing things they don't like them doing. and because people can't accept a premise like "It's not new earth" it's generally tainting what is coming out as a verdict for the movie..
>>81727749
Marvel TEASES obscure comic book stuff without making it at all necessary to be familiar with it. If you recognise Batroc the Leaper in TWS, then great; if not, all you need to know is he's fighting Captain America, enjoy the kung-fu.
BvS keeps throwing obscure comic stuff in your face, with no explanation of what's going on or what the fuck it has to do with anything in the movie. Don't know why The Flash shows up to yell at Bruce in a dream? Tough titties, the movie will never tell you and it'll never make sense.
>>81730242
Superman isn't a villain and Batman was a hero once and probably will be a hero again after Superman's death.
>>81727226
Honesly Snyder's filmmaking reminds me of the short films me and my friends made a few years back. They all ended up being incomprehensible messes for anyone not scrutinizing them to death because we were trying too hard to not spell things out, thinking that made or shit subtle and artistically impressive.
Thing is, that's not what subtelty is, subtlety is not presenting incredibly broad themes through references and symbolism instead of actually making a movie where things happen and the narrative itself spells the themes out.
Sure, show don't tell, but if you're going to do that make your show evident, you're not here to confuse your audience.
>>81728970
Its almost like Han Solo doesnt have the moral code and superhuman durability of Superman.
>>81730264
>while the movie doesn't frame it properly
It did. They even replayed the Waynes death flashback.
>>81729038
>Because Han Solo kills Greedo within his first minute on screen?
That was self-defense. Greedo pulled a blaster on him.
>>81730279
You're missing the whole point.
>people can't accept a premise like "It's not new earth"
It's not a matter of people "not accepting it" like you're saying. We get it. It's different. We just don't -like- it.
>>81730283
Speaking of which, why was Bruce in a dream when Flash talked to him? The Flash doesn't have dream powers as far as I know. Couldn't they have had Barry (or Wally) travel back in time?
>>81730240
No, but it's his source. It's where the VAST VAST majority of his stories come from. How can you even attempt to argue that you understand his character when you've only seen 1% of stories? and even that 1% is is nothing but watered down interpretations.
>>81730148
>his "parents" didn't teach him to be morally infallable
No parent can teach that. Jonathon and Martha give him a good moral compass and teach him to be ready to face the consequences, both good and bad. The main reason Jonathon didn't want him to reveal himself wasn't just because the world wasn't ready for him, but because Clark wasn't ready to step into the responsibility that the world would thrust upon him.
Jonathon spared us from "child star Superman" and "Bieberman" by allowing him to mature emotionally.
>>81730301
Superman only killed Zod.
>>81727896
Jor-El.
Which is stupid as fuck.
>>81730353
>Let's kill him off!
>Wait no, bring him back, we need exposition and lines for the trailers.
Man of Steel was stupid as hell.
>>81730279
Well then you might be the exception and commendable, but honestly whenever I personally, or see other people point out story construction flaws or points that don't make sense PURELY within the context of these movies and not without relying on any outside source material, I get a bunch of of really empty flack in response that boils down to "You don't read comics like I do" (an irrelevant counterargument), "do you need to be spoonfed" courtier's reply criticism" or "It made perfect sense".
The overwhelming majority of hits movie's defense is ad hominem in nature. Granted it's 4chan, but still. The metric for "Real criticism" also seems to be pretty nonexistent as more often than hot there's a few anons going "Name a REAL flaw, except for all these well reasoned arguments that have been put forth, which I will dismiss as straw-manned versions of themselves. See that? You can't!"
I don't think that, even if I ignore everything else I know about Superman and Batman, that this movie gives enough time to Clark for us to get a sense of his ideologies, whatever they may be. I think that him saying he's not a god to Lois runs too counter to all the savior imagery (which itself is trite as hell) to be effective. I think the supposed "goodness" of Clark is inorganic to his origins as they were portrayed, and that frankly the movie is so down on Superman and unwilling to explore or grow his character that it makes a strong case for the villains even as it claims they're the ones in the wrong.
But again, none of that ever counts "real criticism". Whereas "Batman was scary as fuck in that warehouse scene". That's somehow "real praise" of merit.
>>81730327
>No parent can teach that. Jonathon and Martha give him a good moral compass and teach him to be ready to face the consequences, both good and bad. The main reason Jonathon didn't want him to reveal himself wasn't just because the world wasn't ready for him, but because Clark wasn't ready to step into the responsibility that the world would thrust upon him.
>Jonathon spared us from "child star Superman" and "Bieberman" by allowing him to mature emotionally.
THIS. The fight in the car between Clark and Jonathan was to show that Clark wasn't mature yet to face the responsibility of shouldering the world. Jonathan worried not only about Clark, his son, but also the fate of the world.
He believed that Clark some day would be good. He had faith. The final scenes of the movie show you this. He just thought that at that moment Clark wasn't ready to face the world. And he was right.
Because in the movie Clark took the wrong lesson to heart. He thought that his father believed that the world wasn't ready for him when IN TRUTH Jonathan thought that CLARK wasn't ready for the world.
Wasn't it cyborg time traveling?
>>81730323
A lot of us are thinking that they're going to limit the Flash's OP time travel by limiting him to the old "cosmic treadmill," making it where the Flash has to run at top speed just to power it up and immediately snaps back to his origin point when he stops. Also betting that in addition to being responsible for Bruce's "flashforward," Bruce was half-awake for the second part of the dream.
>>81730370
Jor-El's Ghost is a big part of Superman mythos since the Richard Donner's movie. It is basically a replacement for all the time-travel stuffs from the silver age where Superman would travel to Krypton's past to hang out with Jor-El.
>>81730390
Funny enough, one of my friends thought that Flash was Red Hood for a minute.
>>81730325
Because no one cares about the unrelated peripheral stories from the comics. We know the important parts, and you can jerk off to zebra suit Batman off on your own.
The fact is you're the minority, so you don't matter. Deal with it.
>>81730318
No you're missing the point.
It's literally a bias that's been going on all thread on holding characters to a standard set by fans of the comic counter parts when it's not to be held to those standards.
You can hate the movie, go for it, I've literally not seen it and have been asking where it failed as a movie before I go watch it so I can pick it apart myself. Is it Avatar where is fails as a fucking movie? Or is it just The Dark Knight where it fails as a DC movie but passable as a normal movie?
This >>81730293 is literally an honest opinion on the movie without a bias of "THEY FUCKED UP MUH BATMAN"
>>81730370
>>Wait no, bring him back, we need exposition and lines for the trailers.
Because Jor-El has never existed as a computer AI before MoS....
>>81725571
What is this? Twisted Metal?
>>81730306
They replay the Wayne death flashback, yes. I'm saying they could do it in a way that makes it more obvious which role Bruce is in that context, but they kind of don't.
You're probably going to HATE me bringing this up but there's an MCU supercut trailer that frames Civil War Cap with Pre-Serum Cap and has them juxtaposed to show how similar the two situations are. If something similar were done in that scene it would've gone a long way towards delivering on the symbolism and the idea of the role reversal.
>>81730417
He had a robot face like Iron Man
>>81730421
>It's literally a bias that's been going on all thread on holding characters to a standard set by fans of the comic counter parts when it's not to be held to those standards
People have been going on and on this whole thread about how this SO CLOSE TO THE COMICS IT'S LIKE WATCHING A COMIC BOOK PANEL.
You see how you're full of shit?
>>81730448
His mask did have a Red Hood vibe going on though.
