What's wrong with making him an analogy for Jesus?
It fits really well.
It's a bit hack.
>>81603556
what is Jesus's kryptonite?
It's lazy. It's arguably the laziest thing you can do in a story.
>>81603586
Nails
>>81603556
Wasn't Superman originally a Moses type character?
Superman is a Moses analog, not a Yeshuah analog
>>81603591
Superman is a lazy character you dummy
>>81603607
>>81603632
Originally, yeah, but you can't argue that he's become rather messianic, especially after the Donner films
>>81603607
>>81603632
What's the difference?
>>81603676
Moses doesn't die at the end
>>81603556
Jesus loves the people he saves. The Superman analogy would work better if Snyder didn't leave that part off
>>81603556
If you want him to be space jesus, why also portray him as murderous psychopath?
>>81603556
Jesus was a real person and Superman is imaginary.
>>81603556
No it doesn't
Superman doesn't die to redeem people from their sins. Sins can't be forgiven by punching or lifting things.
Jesus doesn't get physical except once, and was outwardly an ordinary guy. Superman gets physical most of the time, and is a super-man most directly because of physical abilities.
>>81603717
Jesus murdered people
>>81603556
Not when it's done by an unsubtle hack
>>81603778
He killed some pigs indirectly and ruined people's livelihoods but that's it.
>>81603695
moses does die at the end, just not killed brutally by the Romans(or by his own people, depending how much of ignorant shit you are.)
moses got pissy at God, smashed his god cane into a rock to produce water, making God upset, saying that he'll never see the Israelite becoming rulers of the Promised lands.
Dies before the Victory at Jericho.
>>81603778
i dont believe Jesus existed in the first place, but the biblical jesus didnt murder or condoned revenge
It'd be interesting to see Superman portrayed like the Miltonic Luficer. Krypton/space is Heaven and the Earth is hell.
I'll never forget the part of the Bible where God says, "Stop, my Son, they're not worth it." And then Mary goes, "Yeah, you don't owe these people shit."
>>81603556
Jesus let himself get killed to save the world.
Superman let his dad get killed to save himself.
>>81603777
>Superman doesn't die to redeem people from their sins
Would have been nice if asked first. Really kind of patronizing on his end if you ask me.
>>81603808
Not to mention really gave it to that one fig tree
>>81603556
>Mr. Snyder, for his part, deploys signifiers of importance without having anything much to say. Yes, there is a lot of talk (mostly stuffed into poor Mr. Eisenberg’s mouth) about Good and Evil and God and Man, and there is also a lot of religious symbolism. (Note the crucifixes dotting the landscape near the end.) There are murky shadows and muddy nightscapes, all redolent not just of ordinary danger but of metaphysical darkness. There is Mr. Affleck’s existential brooding and the stoic dimple on Mr. Cavill’s chin.
>For fun there are shots of the heroes shirtless and of Lois Lane in the bath. But the point of “Batman v Superman” isn’t fun, and it isn’t thinking, either. It’s obedience. The theology is invoked not to elicit meditations on mercy, justice or sacrifice, but to buttress a spectacle of power. And in that way the film serves as a metaphor for its own aspirations. The corporations that produce movies like this one, and the ambitious hacks who sign up to make them, have no evident motive beyond their own aggrandizement. Entertainment is less the goal than the byproduct, and as the commercial reach of superpower franchises grows, their creative exhaustion becomes ever more apparent.
>>81603840
that's in the Gnostic bible.
>>81603827
He died, but it was 40 years after the cool shit went down.
>>81603711
I really hate how the only people Clark really cares about in these movies is Louis and his mom. It makes him really unlikable. The fact it's implied he'll go full injustice if anything happened to them doesn't help.
>>81603888
Trips confirms STOP MY PRODIGAL SON
>>81603777
I agree with trips. Trips of a biblical number.
>>81603929
Characters being likable is so unrealistic, man. What you think things like good upbringing and kindness exist? Man fuck that gay bullshit. The world is shit and everyone's just a bunch of posers.
>>81603827
Moses didn't get pissy, he was developing a God complex over the Israelites and was growing egotistical. Yahweh killed Moses because he was performing miracles claiming the power was his to command rather than given to him by God. When he split the rock, he was declaring himself a God to his people
>>81604182
truth be told, it has been awhile since reading Exodus and Deuteronomy.
>>81603556
Jesus is fucking played out as fuck and there are a million better mythological characters they could pull frim
>>81603598
>>81603586
>>81604007
The problem with that is that the movie actively wants you to root for him. That he's trying to be a hero but the naysayers won't let him. Yet the way it's presented in the movie makes me agree with the naysayers which in turn makes the parts of movie that try to make us care for Supes really annoying.
>"IF YOU LOVE THESE PEOPLE, YOU CAN MOURN THEM!"
>"STOP IT!"
>"Never".
>...
>Dies on the cross
>"FORGIVE THEM FATHER, THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO!"
>>81603586
Common Sense
>>81603591
But it adds nothing and takes nothing away. It's not like the script relies on it. It's just a nod.
>>81606073
>just a nod
More like beating your face in with a bible.
BvS did something right about the Jesus analogies in comparison to MoS: They are used to show how some people in-universe perceive Superman, instead of to show the audience and the audience alone that he is a Jesus.
One of the themes of the movie is what people project on Superman versus what Superman really is. Lex and Bruce see him as a monster they have to personally overcome, some people find him suspicious and invasive, and a lot of the people he saves see him as a miracle, something godly and worth worshipping.
But the truth is simply that Superman wants to help and he just happened to be an alien with powers. So he looks dissapointed when people treat him like a Jesus because it distances him from them instead of making him closer to them.
>>81603556
It's tacky and overdone. You are essentially making an OC re-color of Jesus.
It's not just that they're making him an analogy for Jesus
It's HOW they're doing it, like >>81606203 said, it's like getting hit in the face with a bible.
>>81603556
Nnnnnooo....they are kinda substantially different if you think about it. Of course, Jesus wasn't this great character who belonged to a corporation and subsequently got turned into a cash cow. Imagine the years and decades of Jesus stories that would have been printed every month. Imagine the bible reboots. And the crossovers.
If you're going to do it, do it. Jesus wasn't detached from humanity. Jesus was a man of the people. Jesus went around giving speeches on how to be a better person.
Snyderman can't get in front of people and talk without the building blowing up because "herp derp I can't take it serious when he talks in costume"
>>81605842
Because analogies to one specific thing are shallow and basically worthless. You want a work to have some room for interpretation, to promote discussion, and to be applicable to lots of real-world things.
When it's "He's like Jesus" you get none of that.
>>81603556
Kryptonians are just people,
Yes they have superpowers, but they only "divinity" that Superman would have is only what people project onto him.
Trying to force big religious parallels onto Superman is just being a mongoloid that doesn't get the nuanced idea that he's just a nice guy with powers, and a far more developed level of empathy and ethical thought.
>Lex's entire obsession with Superman in BvS
The worst part of the movie, the only remotely redeeming aspect was the subtext that he was actually talking about Darkseid.
Lex is deep on the autism.
>>81603586
Christians
or >>81603598
>>81603676
In the movies or what? The only Moses analogy to Superman is the journey as a baby in a spaceship, to Moses and the Nile river. Superman is far more Christ like.
>>81609380
Also why Blomkamp is a hack.
>>81603598
Jesus was a carpenter, and metal goes through wood, so it works.
>>81603556
>What's wrong with making him an analogy for Jesus?
it's really uninspired because every messianic figure gets turned into an analogy for jesus by default. A fresher script would combine analogies for Apollo, Moses, and Samson
>>81609661
Carpenters aren't made of wood.
>>81609677
I get Samson/Hercules, Moses but what's the analogies for Apollo except the sun?
>>81603556
Because he is a better analogy for St. Michael.
It's not a coincidence that the super "S" has become a symbol taken up by secular humanists. He is a figure that is moral and optimistic, but is up front about being fictional and open to interpretation by reader and writer alike. Superman tells people to be a good person, but being good not necessitated by a reverential obedience. It is a god totally in the service of humanity, and not the other way around.
You aren't disallowed to say that superman is like Jesus, but if you do, you are necessitated to say that Jesus is just as fictional and mutable as the last son of Krypton. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't fool yourself into thinking you're making superman a Christian parable. You're actually turning the bible into a superhero story.
>>81609601
I was asking what's the difference between Jesus and Moses since I don't know my basic christianism, but reading the thread I got it
>>81609677
>Samson
>Super-strong as long as he never cuts his hair
>Some chick tries to find out his weakness
>He trolls her and keeps easily beating whatever came up against him.
>Eventually gives her his real weaknesses because..?
>Mopes about it for a bit
>talks to God, gets his powers back, wrecks shit
I'd be down for a SuperSamson.
Not only do I disagree with the analogy, it's also cliche. Not even All-Star Superman was safe from it.
>>81609843
>some chick
kek prostitute.
>>81609825
Michael is Batman
>>81609896
>Red Cape and Blue armor
>The Beast (Darkseid) at his feet.
Nah, if Batman was an angel. He would be either Metatron (man who becamen an angel) or Raziel (angel of divine secrets, holder of the weakness of the supers).
>>81609843
>Samson has to die because God has a hair fetish.
Fuck you God. Dude should have survived that shit.
>>81609825
Ironically, the etymology of the name Michael refers to a battle cry "Who is likened unto God?" which is a rhetorical question asked to someone who has a God complex, most notably seen when the archangel Michael cast Lucifer from heaven and shouted it at him as he fell. Michael is the name of figures who humble people trying to identify as Godlike beings
>>81603556
Supes is an adolescent power fantasy made by a kid who probably practiced christianity to some degree (maybe all he did was pray before dinner but he still had those archetypes floating in his head) so yeah way too obvious and easy
>>81609987
Like every single time Supes punches Darkseid or Mongul or Luthor? Hell, Luthor became a god once and he got his power punch out of him.
>>81610007
>Supes is an adolescent power fantasy made by a kid who probably practiced christianity to some degree
Jesus dude.
The main issue in this concept is people as a whole, even Jews and Christians, barely have ever read or understood the Bible in any capacity. Zack Snyder can't make an allegory to something he doesn't understand to begin with
>>81609601
>Superman is far more Christ like.
The only Christ parallel is that he was sent down to earth to help us. But Jesus didn't get his powers on Earth, or come from a place where he wouldn't have had them, nor was he from his conception, someone who fights bad people directly as Superman was. Nor has he ever aspired to be Humanities savior, or said that only through his example can people become better. He's only got one or two real similarities with Christ, and I'm almost sure the Jews who thought him up didn't intend them, so any Christlike elements were pasted on later, and don't really fit that well. Besides Moses, there were some comparisons by the creators to Samson, and Greek demigods. That seems more fitting really.
>>81610007
>Supes is an adolescent power fantasy made by a kid who probably practiced christianity to some degree
Zack Snyder didn't create Superman, Anon.
>>81610007
That is some delicious bait.
>>81610048
Yes, and that really is the core of what this idea needs to be expressed as. Superman isn't God but a humble servant of God. He isn't an antichrist figure
>>81603836
Seems like a good elseworlds story.
>>81609943
>Metatron (man who became an angel)
I always forget about that bit. Uriah, wasn't that his name?
Also, I can't help but notice he's the only named angel without El at the end of his name.
>>81610065
Yahushuah was a social revolutionary who lead the revolt of the spiritually downtrodden slaves of the times. His disciples are the last people you would expect, thieves, degenerates and outcasts of society who were given salvation. Yahushuah had a following of thousands upon thousands that threatened to uproot the principles of civilization as they were understood. It was this massive gathering under a Messianic Jewish King growing outside the walla of Rome that lead to the crucifixion. Superman really has very little parallel with Yahushuah.
>>81610288
Metatron is the angelic name given to Enoch after he was initiated into the realms of Heaven and was transformed. Some scholars speculate that Uriah was the name of the angel that would later be known as Lucifer before the rebellion
It's really lazy and not that interesting. Pretty much everything that needs to be said about Jesus has been said, you really don't need to hijack a story about a funnybook character to give your personal take on it.
Besides apparently he's also a Moby Dick analogy, a Lancelot analogy and whathaveyou, because symbolism+references=depth.
>Writers keep trying to make him Jesus
>None of them want to make him Christian
Unless you're Garth Ennis.
>>81610632
Wasn't he methodist in the comics?
At least his early self?
>>81603556
Anything is bad in excess, anon.
>>81609962
He was a barbarian, and as a barbarian, his temp hit points went out at the wrong time.
>>81607483
>So he looks dissapointed when people treat him like a Jesus because it distances him from them instead of making him closer to them.
The issue here (to me) is that Superman, when facing this problem in comics, relies on his social skills and talking to people to humanize himself to others, showing to them that he's not a God, he doesn't just frown with deep gonzern.
>>81609186
>Of course, Jesus wasn't this great character who belonged to a corporation and subsequently got turned into a cash cow.
Well... the Bible is still the #1 best seller of all time and churches are pretty rich corporation analogues. Just saying.
Just happens Jesus is in public domain.
>the crossovers.
You should read Saint Young Men.
>>81609825
I've never really read the bibl, but is Michael suppose to be a badass?
>>81603556
because he's more of a Moses analogy
>>81610808
he solo's a satan without breaking a sweat
>>81610808
he's so badass some christian sects concluded he surely must be Jesus's angel form
>>81610808
Anytime an Angel gets involved, some shit's about to go down.
>>81604182
>Moses didn't get pissy, he was developing a God complex
Moses is described as the most humble man alive. He died because of his or the Jews lack of faith, depending on the source; it had nothing to do with a god complex.
>>81603556
Does any story actually take it further than the most shallow level of "savior of mankind" or "dying for our sins"?
I guess that would require actually reading the Bible, but still.
>>81610956
The Bible itself or the Allegory?
Generally speaking , Jesus and the Apostle's works are told during 5 books: the Gospels and the book of Acts.
I don't know about the Allegory though.
>you will never wrestle an angle for a blessing
>>81611068
I meant stories described as Jesus allegories are usually extremely shallow allegories that show the author probably isn't familiar with Christianity beyond a vague sense.
Though obviously making shity allegories even out the gospel itself has a long history (re: Good Samaritan)
>>81611231
well in that case, almost anytime Jesus Allegory happens, it's pretty shallow.
best example is the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
or the animated Transformers movie though that's a bit of a stretch.
>>81610808
He is the sword and the battle cry of God. He is given great power, but he is also a humble and obidient servant who's nature is to be eternally faithful. He is the humbler of evil.
Lucifer portrays himself to those rebellious angels that would worship him as the bearer of true knowledge about the nature of God's creation, that it is a cruel fate made to imprison them, that he was God's slave and by his own will become the radiant liberator and righteous rebel to an unjust authority, and if they would love him as they would have be made to love God, he will lead them to salvation from the chains of Heavens. Michael is the power that shatters the illusions of Lucifers lies, who is trampled under Michaels heel , exposing the true nature that he masks, that of a vainglorious, self important and ill tempered brat who throws spiteful fits and only wants to make everyone else share in his misery.
>>81611318
>best example is the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
That was for children though
The author of Narnia was one of the most influential apologists around, so if his jesus allegories seemed shallow, that's because FOR CHILDREN
Richard Donner did it better
>>81610757
That's very valid.
But at this point I'm taking from the movie what I can get.
A lot og anons are talking about Moses and all I can think is
https://youtu.be/byAfC5yW_hw
>>81611584
Red Cape, blue armor... yeah, it makes sense. The image of Darkseid being shown as the devils falling from the sky got me hyped, maybe the DCEU wont be a mess.
>>81611584
Damn, that sounds a lot like Superman's relationship with Luthor.
It's so fitting now I regret more than ever the Jesus paralels. They have something great right here.
>>81603586
Jews
>>81603586
Jesus is his own biggest enemy. He literally killed and tortured himself.
>>81610050
Yeah, Supes is Jesus Dude. That's what this thread's about.
>>81614889
This is the right answer, not nails. He wouldn't have been vulnerable to the nails if he didn't want to be. If we're talking about Biblical Jesus and not Historical Jesus then he died of his own volition.
