Does anyone else just want to skip past the Elektra and Matt scenes? Jesus Christ, I feel like they're just there to stop the fun. It feels like they wrote half a season with Frank, didn't know what to do and just padded it with the Hand and muh ancient evil being awoken.
>>81588017
Unfortunately, no you're not.
Just wait for the Punisher show and stop your bitching.
I didn't watch Daredevil, only scenes with Frank. Moment he's not on screen, fast forward.
>>81588017
Can anyone make a Punisher story viewing order? I don't want to watch the ninja shit.
>>81588017
Honestly? Kind of, yeah. I was hoping it'd all tie up together in the end with Frank, Matt, and Elektra storming the place for one last battle, but in the end all he did was shoot a couple of guys off a roof.
It's not like it was a complete waste, or something, but they were probably the weakest parts of the season.
>>81588038
Not bitching. I've got 5 times more Daredevil comics than any other hero/team. It just seems like the show lost its direction half way through.
Punisher fans are cancer, the show is called Daredevil, not "Boring asshole shoots gunz."
>>81588118
It's called Daredevil, not 'Ninja Guys, Elektra and Lies'.
>>81588017
It's a problem i have with all the Netflix Marvel shows.
The main characters are boring as fuck compared to the antagonist. King Pin, Killgrave, at least in DD season 2 they made Punisher and Electra more interesting.
>>81588288
I think that only applies to Jessica and Darkie.
>>81588288
>Killgrave
He was just as boring as Jessica was
No, I really liked Elektra. Actually this show is the only time I've ever given a shit about the character. Didn't hurt to have a smoking hot actress in the role.
Sad she killed Moon Knight's pilot tho.
>>81588468
>She killed Moon Knight's pilot tho
What?
>>81588118
>hurrrr super powers make a character
fuck off to death battle, casual
>>81588145
Daredevil fights ninjas all the fucking time in the comics you dumb casual.
>>81588468
wuh?
>>81588529
It doesn't mean it's ever interesting.
He's not fighting Ikari or something, he's taking on some gooks in clothes too big for them.
When was the last time he fought ninjas that was a great story? Last time I can remember him fighting ninjas is Bendis run when he took on 50 of them in the rain after becoming the Kingpin himself.
>>81588529
And Punisher is probably the most important other major Marvel character to him other than Spider-Man in the comics, what's your point
>>81588017
Fuck that. The Daredevil parts were the best part of S2. The garbage trial and the idiocy with the blacksmith sucked
>>81588491
The French guy she fought in the airport hangar identified himself as Jacques Duchamp. MK's pilot is Jean-Paul Duchamp. It was close enough that I got real excited until I remembered correctly.
MK would be perfect for a Netflix show. His rivalry against Bushman would be beautifully brutal.
>>81588616
Daredevil fighting ninjas is a bread and butter story.
>>81588526
Aside from the rooftop scene Punisher was just not an interesting dude and he didn't really accomplish much
>>81588685
Punisher is more important to Daredevil lore then Elektra
>>81588145
Those are literally Daredevil characters retard. I knew /co/ didn't read comics, but this is just sad.
>>81588097
>I've got 5 times more Daredevil comics than any other hero/team
I'm curious. What Puncher books do you have?
>>81588750
Punisher or Puncher?
>>81588713
That's not true. Frank has always been a cameo in Daredevil stories. Elektra is an integral part of the character.
>>81588713
Not true.
>>81588731
Okay.
>>81588770
You know what I meant.
>>81588145
>This is something that was posted on /co/ unironically
>There are people who actually believe this
>>81588713
I disagree. Also, you're an idiot.
>>81588776
Elektra is a side arm, a piece of ass, not a character
Frank is a character
>>81588694
I haven't even watched this show, I don't support Disney. I'm just saying you're an idiot for saying Punisher is a "boring guy with guns" cause he isn't a cape, who in actuality, are typically very boring
>>81588812
>>81588770I actually meant Daredevil but typed Puncher (sic) by mistake.
>>81588812
I didn't haha! I thought you were implying I didn't know shit or something.
I've got bugger all. Always meaning to collect Ruckas and Ellis' runs, but I always end up just downloading them.
>>81588826
Daredevil is more than Frank Millers run decades ago.
>>81588876
Oh right haha. I've got:
Daredevil 1-119 of Volume 2
Skipped Shadowland
Daredevil 1-36 of Volume 3
Daredevil 1-whatever it ended on Volume 4
Dark Nights 1-3
I've got End of Days HC and Yellow in trades too.
>>81588850
>I'm just saying you're an idiot for saying Punisher is a "boring guy with guns"
not the homie senpai.
>I haven't even watched this show,
Your opinion is very valuable in this matter then
Pretty much. Eventually I zoned out whenever they were doing Hand shit.
>>81588940
Frank Miller's Daredevil is what made Daredevil Daredevil.
>>81588083
The episodes are in chronological order you dumbfuck, just skip through scenes without Frank.
>>81588969
Not denying that.
>elektra arc starts with matt already having had a relationship with her, knowing she's bad news, and really not liking her at all and telling her to piss off and get out of his city at every opportunity
>ends with boo hoo I lub you elektra :(
>all while he's just starting a romance with the blonde, apparently just to cause drama
it sucked. good thing the frank scenes were there or the season would've been a total wash.
>Daredevil has too many Daredevil plotlines!
>The whole thing should have been the Frank show guest starring Daredevil!
I hate casuals
>>81589074
Nobody is saying that. I'm saying it should be Daredevil vs Punisher, not Punisher, Elektra, Her Friends: Guest starring Daredevil.
>>81589074
>Ugh, I hate Matt this season, he's so self-destructive!
He's vigilante-lawyer! Who would've thought man like that would be full of contradictions. Are these peopleblind?
>>81589069
Their relationship wasn't believable at any point.
>>81589103
>Nobody is saying that
Maybe not here but I hear it all over when I try and discuss this season
>not Punisher, Elektra, Her Friends: Guest starring Daredevil.
Fair enough
>>81589148
Karen or Elektra? I thought Karen and Matt were quite organic this season. I even liked her scenes with Frank. I preferred her to Foggy.
>>81589194
>>81589069
Karen was annoying this season with her investigations wasting time and her whole "but frank is just a misunderstood hero" shit
>>81589074
it SHOULD have been the Fisk show with guest stars Matt and Frank.
prison scenes were the best.
>>81588017
I skipped all the scenes that weren't relevant to Frank.
That made the ending really strange where I watched Frank gun down ninjas and some woman died.
>>81589148
oh, I agree. it was just stupid that they felt like they needed to manufacture that to add more stupid drama to the already stupid elektra arc
>>81589268
You are cancer.
>>81589284
The Elektra arc could have been good if they just left Frank's story at the graveyard and focused on writing and pacing it good.
>>81589248
I thought it was a nice way to get some shit outta Frank that Matt wouldn't. Really, Matt should be doing this but he's up to his knees in ninja pussy.
>>81589293
I was the same with Jessica Jones. Instead of 13 hours of bullshit, I ended up with like 3 hours of decent Tennant stuff.
>>81589293
Nobody watches Daredevil for ninjas or shitty Law and Order. They watch it for Frank
>>81589293
Don't really like capeshit other than Frank.
>>81589360
Nega-Whedon.
>>81589353
Season 1 generally generated more positive reviews than season 2.
>>81589360
Frankfags are 2nd world Batfags.
>>81589247
But she was A: the main plot-mover and B: had an understandable internal conflict that helped show the audience who don't know Frank WHY Frank is a possible hero.
The only "bad" characters this season were Foggy who just repeated everything he did in S1 despite now knowing DD's identity, Elektra who is just a smug unlikeable fuckface we're given no reason to empathize with, and Stick who just went out of his way to fuck with DD because the writers weren't ready to actually tell us what's going on with The Hand.
>>81589360
You need to be over 18 to post.
>>81589394
>Frankfags are 2nd world Batfags
This is true and it makes me angry, especially since 2/3rds of the casuls watching DD are just looking for Batman 2.0
>>81589394
>Frankfags are 2nd world Batfags.>>
But Daredevil is just red Batman.
>>81589460
Batman is Black Daredevil.
>As soon as Frank becomes popular /co/ doesn't like him
People talk about this kind of thing, its nice to be able to observe this one as its happening for a change.
>>81589498
Literally everyone but the tripfags itt loved Frank in this season, stop being a retard
>>81589498
There are no such things as bad character, only bad writers. Well, excluding Carol Danvers.
>>81589526
>Literally everyone but the tripfags itt loved Frank in this season, stop being a retard
You're a retard. I'm the only one here and I didn't say shit about Frank. He saved this season.
>>81589498
I don't hate Frank, I hate "Le Frank Franked the Frank Frank Frank" shitters who then proceed to shit on DD's lore. They are basically Muslim trash in European countries. I don't remember ever having good discussion about season 2 of Daredevil in /co/.
>>81588647
Just making up shit and trying to pass it off as truth doesn't make it true. Marvel never filmed a MK pilot!
>>81589498
Honestly They should have just skipped Matt and had Frank's blacksmith plotline take up most the episodes. That way we can get two seasons of Frank
>>81589618
Franks always had an unusually large and surprisingly insular following on /co/, when it comes to cape characters he is pretty unique compared to a character like Daredevil or Elektra.
I don't think it should be that surprising that Punisher fans don't care about other heroes lore.
>>81588616
>the punisher
>that important
The punisher is 90's antihero distilled. He had his prime but please stop acting like he was relevant recently before this show.
>>81589815
I don't think he is as interesting or as unique as Daredevil (blind lawyer-vigilante in media that relies on visuals), but it's my opinion. This "insular following" started to get loud only when Punisher was announced for DD. Before that it was just Frank faces in edited images threads and Ennis storytimes.
It's really too bad that the rest of season 2 never reached the highs of the first four episodes. By the time episode 3 finished, I think it was pretty clear that the rest of the season wouldn't be able to raise the ante.
>>81589247
Karen is feeling a lot of guilt for murdering Wesley, her main motivation for pursuing Frank is that she wants to believe that someone can be a good person even after killing people.
Im still mad frank didnt frank those "hundreds" of ninjas that were shown in the roof with the mother frankin minigun.
>>81589974
>I don't think he is as interesting or as unique as Daredevil (blind lawyer-vigilante in media that relies on visuals)
Daredevil is still closer to the norm for cape characters was my point. He fights for noble ideals, doesn't kill and generally falls closer to the superhero mold when compared to someone like Frank, who has no problem killing, tones down on the ridiculousness inherent in the superhero genre and who's greatest asset is his ridiculous willpower.
Within the context of cape comics, Frank is an oddity compared to Daredevil.
Its also not really surprising that the following for Frank got loud when something big was happening with Frank in it.
>>81588089
>but in the end all he did was shoot a couple of guys off a roof.
That was the biggest disappointment.
>previous episode has a scene zeroing in on minigun
>next episode just has Frank sniping a few guys
>>81590186
Just an anti-hero.
Also
>Daredevil
>Doesn't kill
I think the main problem is, as you watch, you kinda expect Matt and Frank's subplots to eventually converge into a single mega story, but far as I can tell, they're kept mostly separate, which creates a tonal clash.
I may need to sit down and re-watch the last few episodes, but the whole Blacksmith stuff kinda went off the rails.
>>81589951
>but please stop acting like he was relevant recently before this show.
You don't read comics do you? People who do don't care about this "show"
>>81589815
>Franks always had an unusually large and surprisingly insular following on /co
He's a popular character in general, one of Marvels most popular...he is THE anti-hero. They sell Punisher t shirts at fucking Walmart, he's an icon. His top status is debatable now that the MCU has made casuals into capeshit and made b c and d listers like the Avengers popular, but Punisher is and always had a huge following of fans
>>81590413
Punisher's image was popular, yes, but no one really knew the Punisher, they just thought skull on a shirt looks edgy.
>>81590292
I'm not trying to insult Daredevil, all I'm saying is that Frank clearly fills a niche that doesn't really have a lot of crossover with other cape characters, whereas thats less true with Daredevil.
>>81590500
I wasn't insinuating that you were insulting Daredevil, I was pointing out that Daredevil is not above killing and I actually have zero clue why they gave him "ABSOLUTELY no killing" meme in S2. Honestly, at this point I am sure they did that not because Frank was supposed to oppose Daredevil, but because they wanted Daredevil to oppose Frank. I think difference is subtle, but it's there.
>>81589709
They meant the character who flies Moon Knight around, not a pitch episode of a Moon Knight show.
It's bullshit either way, but...
rewatching the second season holy shit that is so much fun
>>81592859
What's so much fun, bro?
>>81592947
the fact that you tripfuck think you are relevant for anything
fuck off retard
>>81592982
Is that you Foggy? Why are you always so hostile?
>>81592982
>Forgetting the correct response to tripfags
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlKao_Pox5A&ab_channel=NinetyPercentofEverythingisCrap
>Why can't the guy who has almost no fucking arc be the focus of the Daredevil show instead of Daredevil and other characters prominent in Daredevil comics?
>Why do they have to put in all this ninja shit...what do they think this is a show about Daredevil?
Honestly people if you wan't 'Frank the tank starring Daredevil sometimes' don't watch Daredevil. I'm glad the people who make this show don't listen to the non fans of the character who just want 'more shootin gangsters!' and actually focused on the Character from the comic book dealing with the shit he deals with in the comic book.
The fact that people think Franks story should have taken up more time than it did blows my mind.
>>81593130
It's not that they used ninjas and Elektra, it's that they're boring in the show.
>>81593175
I disagree. I loved seeing Elektras struggle, as well as the threat the Ninjas posed pushing Matts sense of morality and purpose. It actually gave him a decent arc with him realizing this is something he doesnt just do out of a sense of duty but in fact loves and casting aside his high minded moralistic bullshit when the situation required.
But the fact is nobody says 'oh ninjas were boring heres how they coulda been more interesting'
They all just wanted less ninja shit and more punisher shit as if somehow stretching what little arc there is to the punisher out through 13 episodes would somehow work at all. Because honestly most people don't give that much of a shit about DD it seems beyond his show being about the best capeshow on tv. But ooh if punisher is showing up yeah more and more of him.
Why not introduce Bullseye in season 3 and then kill Elektra off? Seems silly to kill off a character that was just introduced. And don't tell me that Nobu was supposed to be Bullseye.
>>81590468
>but no one really knew the Punisher, they just thought skull on a shirt looks edgy.
You didn't, other people did.
Just because you were a casual little faggot doesn't mean the rest of us were.
The idea of her being the only one in his life who understands why he needs to be Daredevil was interesting, but they fell into the pit that almost every writer falls into, feeling the need for the MC to be a metaphorically revolving door for all other prominent female characters on the show.
I almost dropped it when Matt and Karen got together because it was entirely unnecessary in every way. Nothing even fucking came of that. They kissed twice and that's fucking it.
I didn't mind Elektra's scenes with him because for the most part unil the end-ish she just pissed him the fuck off, which I loved because bafflingly enough Daredevil is my most hated character on the show.
>>81588017
>implying punisher's origin being a conspiracy was good
>implying that blacksmith asspull wasn't terrible
lmao, Elektra was the best part
>>81593175
Elektra was boring even though she was a good actress. The ninja shit was cool and I'm looking forward to see where they're going with it. Only problem was that it was an abrupt shift in focus after episode 4 or 5 that it just felt like it was another show all of a sudden. It was jarring.
Punisherfags remind me of Stannisfags somehow.
>>81593313
>Punisherfags
Batfags are so obnoxious. Do you guys just have an app or something that alerts you to whenever a punisher thread pops up?
>>81593297
The shootout in the park is still a mystery, they can retcon into anything that sounds betteror worse.
>>81593130
The most common complaint I'm hearing is that people didn't like the shift from relatively sane, grounded stuff in the first season and with Frank to undead ninja magic bullshit, in addition to the Frank fans who just want more Frank.
>The Punisher should be louder, angrier, and have access to a time machine.
>Whenever The Punisher isn't onscreen, the other characters should be asking, "Where's The Punisher?"
>>81593563
HAHAHA
what's the best Punisher comic?
i've only read Born.
>>81593770
Punisher kills the Marvel universe
>>81593278
Cute, you still have faith in humanity.
>>81593795
wasn't that Deadpool? or is there a punisher one too?
>>81593977
>>81589409
>Foggy
Agreed
>Elektra
Mostly agreed
>Stick
Fuck off, he was perfect.
>>81593313
>He thinks Stannis is wrong
Let me guess, you haven't read the books.
I liked all of DD S2. The Hand is very prominent in Daredevil comics. When he's not facing Kingpin or Bullseye he's facing off against The Hand & having a love-hate/on-off relationship with Elektra.
As for Elektra in S2, she was perfect. Even though she was assigned to Matt, she understood him the most. She's the one who knew about his vigilantism and encouraged it. Karen was left in the dark and probably would be on Foggy's side and tell Matt to "let others handle it".
I don't get why Foggy is all upset, he knew Matt was DD. He knew that his law practice came second. Also how did they blow through all the money Elektra gave them?
I hope Punisher gets his own show or even a Netflix movie. Just have him blowing up and shooting bunch of criminals. No plot really needed.
>>81593297
His origin wasn't a conspiracy,the DA's coverup of the sting that caused it was, though. However, I agree that the blacksmith reveal was a total ass-pull.
>>81593875
Uh, no, I know because I knew the Punisher. Me and my friends grew up with the 80s movie and thusly got into the comics.
Hell, I knew even casual Punisher fans who knew enough about him from the later movies and video games. You're just a fucking idiot who thinks his worldview = the worldview. You didn't know anything about Punisher so you think nobody else did because you're a fucking gay baby.
>>81588406
And a complete bitch at that
>>81593563
- Got home
- Dont understand why this bad blood on the thread.
- I'm bugging off to Win0
>>81588017
Man I kinda hated this big punishing hard on that the writers had
i mean he beat matt in hand to hand combat which is just bs
>>81588017
I was fine with them. Only part I was honestly annoyed about was Foggy being such a bitch.
>I don't care that your psycho ex-girlfriend is stalking you!
>Stop saving all these innocent people from crime and gang violence!
>It's all your fault Frank franked the case!
But at least now he's gone. And everything can be right with the world once more. Born again here we come.
>>81593563
I think the point OP is trying to make is that the fact that he feels this way is a sign that the show is bad. In a good show, the bits with Frank will be fun and something you always look forward to. In a bad show, Frank is the only thing to look forward to.
>>81589618
Shitting on DD lore is bad, sure, but not being able to appreciate Frank in all its forms is a sign that your Frank never Franked you enough as a Frank.
>>81590165
Yeah what the fuck was up with that? We see like 200 fucking ninjas running over the rooftops, and then suddnely it's down to like... six when Matt and Elektra bust out of the door.
>>81602778
>six when Matt and Elektra bust out of the door.
You only remember six because some of them held back from doing shit (under Nobu's orders and because they probably knew about that giant Black Sky jar) while others got killed by Elektra (who couldn't even fight properly because they were mainly trying to restrain her).
>all this ninja hate
NO ONE ESCAPES DESTINY
Is anyone else surprised they didn't bring up the fact that Karen killed somebody? I thought thats what they were heading towards with both Frank and Elektra constantly telling Matt that being a moralfag sucks and that argument Matt and Karen had about the Punisher. I think it would be interesting to see what happens when Matt (and Foggy) find out innocent little Karen killed a dude
not saying she didnt have a good reason but thats a plot point I thought there was no way they would pass up
>>81588017
>I don't understand that a series need a diverse set of storylines to appeal to a larger audience
Good luck with your autism.
>>81602994
>season 1
>tells Kingpin he "knows a guy" that can take care of Daredevil
>mid fight, the mask rips
>its him
Why didnt he just say that he would do it? This cracks me up every time I think about it
>>81603087
It's never directly stated but>>81590093 is a plausible reason she was obsessed with the Punisher.
>>81603250
He felt shy talking about his ninja hobbies.
>>81603375
agreed, I theorized as much about why she was so hellbent on proving he isnt a monster, but I expected it to hit the surface and be a major plot point but it wasnt
oh well
>>81603375
Yeah I'm pretty it was one of the main reasons why she even sympathized with him at all. She makes points about Frank being justified in what he does and every Matt says "No, killing is a no-no", Karen freezes up. The fact that it was even emphasized when Frank asked if it wasn't her first "rodeo" with a gun made it pretty obvious that it was what they were going for with Karen's angle.
>>81603460
>I expected it to hit the surface and be a major plot point but it wasnt
Well my guess is that they're also foreshadowing her backstory more than anything for next season (the whole "Teen Fatality" thing in the newspaper). Which I didn't mind, given how jam-packed the story already was.
Why did Matt go to prison to meet with Fisk if he already knew that he orchestrated the escape? He just made himself a bigger target than he already was when Fisk is released. If he was right about Fisk controlling the prison (and he was certain once he learned that Frank went to the same cell block), there's no way he'd be able to make him talk.
>>81602965
So the goal was to overpower Matt and Elektra, capture Elektra, and kill Matt... and so he decided to wave off 194 of the 200 ninjas on the roof thirty seconds ago.
>>81589248
>more prison scenes
Hell yeah
>>81588017
The worst parts were all the secret identity bullshit going on with Matt, Foggy and Karen. It was the worst part of season 1, and somehow got even worse in season 2.
Even though Foggy was great in season 2, pretty much all the drama between him and Matt was shit.
>>81603250
What, why would he?
>>81588017
Any scene with Karen or Foggy I skip, literally why the fuck does Karen's character even exists? Watching her dig through filling cabinets? wow!
>>81588145
>It's called Daredevil, not 'Ninja Guys, Elektra and Lies'.
So, Daredevil.
>>81593507
Undead ninja magic was hinted at in the first season. It also had blind men that could see with their other senses, an allusion to something that appears to be a child being some kind of demonic being which gets killed with a bow and arrow, and an old woman with superstrength who is hinted at being from an ancient mystical other-dimensional city. Goddammit, this season had problems, but I wish people didn't have to say stupid shit to criticize it.
>>81602078
>i mean he beat Matt in hand to hand combat
You mean by pulling out a gun, or when he took him down after Matt was reeling from his head injury because of said gunshot?
>>81605811
well before he shot matt frank certainly had the upper hand
>>81589460
Daredevil's more Batman than Batman t b h
>>81606010
I'm not totally sure on that. Frank looked like he was tiring, and definitely felt the need to use a firearm to even the playing field.
>>81603889
The guy had a huge ego and wanted to kill Matt himself (there were even a bunch of mooks standing around just watching them). It was stupid but most of the fault definitely falls on Nobu's arrogance.
>>81605730
This. People forget that when Stick came in, he was already doing weird shit and all of this heavily foreshadowed in the first season.
>>81589353
Actually, the main reason I love Daredevil is because he's a lawyer. I enjoy watching him work on both sides of the law to make sure that he protects as many people as he can. It's fantastic.
>>81610735
This. The interesting part about Daredevil is the general dichotomy inherent in his concept. He's a lawyer and a vigilante, a Catholic who embodies a devil symbol. Hell his entire premise plays on the notion of "justice is blind" being turned on its head.
