Did nayone here actually like Eisenberg's version of Lex Luthor?
>>81475910
>nayone
Shit, I meant anyone.
>>81475910
I actually liked the beginning of the scene when the Senator comes to his house to tells him she's blocking him from getting the Kryptonite.
It's the only scene where Eisenberg successfully conveys the menacing instability he was going for but it's quickly ruined when he starts doing that stupid The Red Capes are Coming!!! shit.
He was good except during the Galla, I was hoping he would have more public charisma.
>>81475910
The basketball scene was alright.
Wish he had played Lex as a cool young guy instead of a spaz.
I liked it, I went in knowing he was "not muh Luthor" so I wasn't mad. I liked the idea that this Lex was autistic. Would have preferred a take more similar to StAS, but I'm fine with what we got
Him feeding a dude jolly ranchers was so weird I couldn't help but like it
Why wasn't his head shaved
Probably there are but I did not and you can argue to me all you want about his portrayal but I hated it and will never like it
If he were The Riddler like it was originally thought of, it probably could have been great
>>81475910
The part where he starts flicking those photos in Superman's face before leaning over him and smirking really made me happy.
And the party scene where he slips up and gets furious when revealing how he feels so inadequate right now 'knowledge without power which is parodoxical' was good too.
I liked him. He was a bit too manic at times (that meltdown at his library fundraiser was a bit much) but he still had that core aspect of Lex, i.e. hating anyone who he viewed as having power above his.
The scene on his tower with Supes was classic Lex the entire way through.
>>81476742
It was at the end.
>>81475910
Yes. But then again, I never really cared about comic book Luthor, so I couldn't possibly be upset about them changing his personality.
I thought Eisenberg's take on him was more interesting than a generic (even though genius) businessman would've been. We already had Pierce in Winter Soldier and the antagonists in Iron Man, Ant-Man were pretty close to this archetype as well.
Luthor making it rain with photos of Clarks roughed up mom was possibly the greatest moment of villainy in any superhero movie to date.
actually i disappoint with his potray as lex, but i like him in basketball scene and scene when lex threaten supes
>>81475910
Thought he was a funnier Lex than Gene Hackman.
>>81476885
>possibly the greatest moment of villainy in any superhero movie to date
Seriously?
The real shame is that he's the most entertaining character in the movie, and his theme is excellent.
Too bad he's too unhinged.
>>81476911
It's a very low bar to clear considering most comic book movie villains are total Garbo. It was both completely monstrous and was some gleeful scenery chewing. It was good.
>>81476704
Fag detected.
>>81476885
>>81476958
Clark literally quaking with rage sold it. Luthor hit him where it would hurt, and you could feel it in that "WHERE IS SHE?!" roar.
>>81476958
>It was both completely monstrous and was some gleeful scenery chewing
It was, but Joker's switch of Dent and Rachel in TDK was arguably the most brutal.
Better than normal lex boring ass they gave him personality it would of sucked getting normal lex.
Did anyone else feel like the dialogue of lex made him seem like lex jr with lex luthors brain in him?
>>81476958
I didn't really love it. It was fine but just typical villain shit to me. Ajax leaving Deadpool in that chamber for the weekend then asking him "What's my name" after seeing his face was great. Ajax was a beautiful villain in that movie even if he was changed some from his comic counterpart.
>>81475910
I did, up until the prison scene, because I was under the impression that all the stuttering was an act, ando he'd pull out his deadpan serious voice with Batman.
Then I realized he really was just Jesse Eisenberg chewing scenery and collecting a paycheque.
>>81476885
That was honestly the best part of the whole movie. It was a scene ripped straight from a better film.
>>81476885
>>81477000
I liked that whole scene, starting with Lois being brought to the tower.
>>81477061
Dude, learn English. I had to read your dumbass post 3 times to understand it.
>>81476805
>The scene on his tower with Supes was classic Lex the entire way through.
Because it captured what Lex is all about: A normal, determined human being bringing Superman to his knees by exploiting Superman's humanity.
>>81475910
Me, from the beginning to the very end.
>>81476885
>Not Jar of Piss scene
You failed me, anon.
>>81475910
I liked the way his Luther has to constantly prove he is superior to everyone around him. The quirkyness was part of that to me.
>>81475910
I did, thought it captured well what Luthor was all about. Minus the whole insanity thing and he does lack a certain degree of class
>>81475910
Loved it. I don't mind when they mix it up a bit.
I really liked it, he seperated himself from other versions but stayed true to the core character. And the scene of him getting access to the scout ship was amazing
>>81476885
>>81477442
Meme-troll Lex is great as a villain. I honestly had no problems with this.
I didn't like him but he was still more memorable than Supes and Lois.
>>81475910
I liked him. I didn't think his plan made much sense story-wise. But I Jesse's Performance was great.
Especially on the rooftop when he's telling Superman how god never heard his prays when his father beat him as a kid.
>>81475910
Loved it. My favorite yet. A few times I even cheered for him, because you can really see how he is the hero of his own story.
>>81475910
You just know a few contrarians liked him. But for me, he was annoying as opposed to threatening. Eisenberg's portrayal of Mark Zuckerburg was scarier than Lex was.
I just found this. Thoughts?
I loved him, perfect mix of Silver Age Luthor and Hackman Luthor with modern day motivations and goals.
>>81476805
I understand why people didnt like the fundraiser scene, but I kind of loved how he hated superman SO MUCH he couldn't even finish a speech.
>>81475910
I enjoyed him. Good Luthor in my book, hope to see him again, and I hope to see him over the films become a more traditional Luthor. But if he's in jail now, that seems like a bit of a dead end for several areas for him. That's my one complaint.
I know people were expecting Azzarello Luthor to monologue about the end of human potential, but instead we got Lex Luthor: The Pettiest Man Alive.
I loved it.
I personally liked the autistic angle he went for in his performance. It shows how he could be far more eloquent if he really tried but his inadequacy of living in the same world as Superman makes him stammer and go off on rage induced tangents.
He was Luthor stripped of the charisma with added autism.
Loved it.
I liked it. He was a petty asshole and stealing 40 cakes would be in-character for him. Although, I don't think he can do iconic Lex stuff, like the "You are my nightmare" page from Lex Luthor: Man of Steel.
>>81478423
The first dinner movie ended with him in jail. Hell he goes to jail every other week in the comics, what's the difference now?
>DCfags the thread
Only an ass parted, ready for the DCDick loser would praise this Luthor. You'll eat up any pile of shit as long as it has that DC logo on it.
>>81476622
>I was hoping he would have more public charisma.
My biggest problem with him right here. I wanted a Luthor with a calm but intimidating exterior, his madness only showing through a little instead of him flipping out all the time. I thought he was alright during his early scenes with the politicians.
>>81475910
No.
>>81475910
Introduction scene showing him as a new wave CEO that plays Basketball and treats the entire building as his office was fantastic, and I wished that they'd continued with that aspect of the character. It wouldn't have saved the movie but it'd certainly be better than the autistic charisma-less manchild that we got
>>81476885
Isn't that rather a Joker kind of stunt?
>>81476885
Isn't this a bit of the wrong character? Shouldn't this be a move by the Joker or Riddler?
>>81478631
>Only my taste is the right taste
Okay, /tv/, Time for your nappy-wappy!
Would you like me to sing the For You song to help you sleep?
>>81475910
Yeah, so long as it was the basis for the character and he is developed after he goes through prison.
Could have sworn Snyder or Eisenberg mentioned the character goes through a transformation.
Swole, charismatic Lex might be in the cards.
Me
>>81475910
he was the best part of the movie for me. the introductory scene with him, holly, and the other senator was great. the party scene with luthor coming to grips with how small his is compared to supes was terrific, the bit with him and holly in his dads office was creppy and him on the rooftop was the best encapsulation of luthor we've ever seen in a film.
>>81478320
good shit
>>81478746
Begin of the Movie-Luthor: Hank Scorpio
End of the Movie-Luthor: Frank Grimes/Sideshow Bob
I liked it everyone going on about it being "not muh lex" is retarded.
>>81476622
This was my only problem with him.
>>81475910
I actually really like him.
>>81475910
Too smart for dumb audiences.
>>81475910
I did. He's the most memorable part of the movie for me. Just an autist with too much money.
There was an inkling of brilliance that was ultimately brought down by unimpressive writing and Eisenberg's excessively maniac performance.
I do like the rooftop scene, though.
>>81475910
I am yet to watch the movieillegally.
>>81476622
Yeah that scene threw me too. But there are two points I can make in defense:
>It's obvious he doesn't give a single shit about it and didn't bother to prepare a speech
>everyone else in-universe is just as weirded out by it as the audience
>>81478497
That pretty much sums up my feelings too. I loved Eisenberg's Lex for what it was, although if I was in charge of the movie I would've gone with a more traditionally suave Lex who oozes buckets of charisma.
I thought he was fine, though I did roll my eyes at:
>WOULD YOU LIKE TO ASSUME CONTROL
>Yes. Yes, I would. MMM! Yes, I would. MMM!
>>81475910
I do.
I liked him because he was the only person who gave an actual performance in the entire movie. It was weird and not really appropriate, but Eisenberg went so far out there that it became entertaining on pure strange spectacle alone.
I enjoyed him the same way I enjoyed Jeremy Irons in the D&D movie and Kenneth Branagh in Wild Wild West. When you know you're in something that shit, you may as well have fun on set even if no one else is.
It's sad when you're watching a Batman v Superman movie and going "I wish this film was about Lex Luthor v Holly Hunter, because they're the only ones having anything close to the ideological and philosophical conversations Snyder kept promising this movie would be about."
His personality probably made the movie better than it would have been if he had been like a regular serious Luthor. The movie is easier to find interesting if there is some variation in the variation of the main characters.
>>81481022
well yeah, the philosophical stuff between Batman and Superman was all done via imagery.
Batman being consumed by the bats in his first dream, then the batmonster in the next dream, and finally the knightmare scene where his paranoia and fears of Superman are shown in their logical extreme.
Superman constantly being willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good, such as when he lets the US nuke him (not knowing if he would survive or not), being willing to let Batman kill him if he would save Martha, and finally sacrificing himself to defeat Doomsday.
They represent the all powerful vs all good thing Luthor talked about. In batman's quest to become all powerful in the face of a god, he lost his good, and in Superman's quest to be all good he ultimately loses his power (he dies).
>>81481129
>being willing to let Batman kill him if he would save Martha
I didn't take it at that, but he was begging for his mother's life instead of his own when Bats was about to shank him.
My cousin thinks BvS is a film classic and that people who dislike it are "delusional reactionary haters". I didnt even bother with respond.
>>81481265
yeah exactly, I meant it more that he wasn't really worried about his safety, but always worried about the safety of others.
Also as an aside, Superman never killed that terrorist leader. He punched the walls out himself and didn't throw the guy through them.
>>81481129
All of which was incredibly surface level.
The "all powerful/all good" dichotomy could have been interesting if it wasn't introduced in the last half hour of the movie. Usually it's a good idea for the villain to explain why he wants to kill the hero before the third act of the movie starts.
>>81481298
It is really good though. People who hate it tend to not have understood everything. The common complaints being Luthor had no motivation and Batman was a killing machine for no reason when all of these things were explained in the movie.
Luthor had plenty of motivation, Batman had only recently started having no regard for his enemy's lives and goes back to normal batman by the end. That was his fucking arc.
>>81481298
I think the movie gets unfairly shit on and does a lot of interesting things with its major themes and character arcs, but it's got some pretty huge flaws so I understand why not everyone ennoyed it.
>>81481328
>if it wasn't introduced in the last half hour of the movie
What? The movie OPENS with Superman being called to question his authority and someone claiming that he doesn't answer to anyone "not even God".
There's a theme of him being seen as a deity/messiah figure by the public when he doesn't want that title in the first place, and it runs through the entire movie.
>>81481328
Don't be obtuse, that isn't surface level if it is happening throughout the entire movie.
Batman's struggle with power and good happen from the beginning. With Superman you can see it happening as early as the courtroom scene when he doesn't exercise his power and a bombing ends up happening.
Also Luthor's motivation is shown from the second we see him. He is literally hates superman so much he can't finish his speech about Prometheus. But I'm sure the thematic significance of that speech went over your head.
And there is plenty of other deeper, much subtler thematic threads with the consistent Paul Revere imager that is punctuated with the FDR/JFK/Unknown Soldier funeral, or how they do a whole 5th World thing with the story of Herod, John Babptist, and Jesus.
>>81481366
>>81481359
I guess i should say, the movie could be good. I don't know. I just know he's stubborn with his opinions, and every opinion that doesn't match his is wrong.
>>81481595
Well it seems like everyone who hated BvS feels the same way, at least on /co/
>>81475910
Sure, it was a bit strange at first because it was drastically different take, but ultimately he was just a more modern version of Lex, with all the vital Superman hate, megalomania and inherent superiority complex hidden behind a slightly different facade. His evil speech with Lois and Superman near the end was pure classic monster Lex, where his true nature is finally entirely visible.
>>81481433
>The movie OPENS with Superman being called to question his authority and someone claiming that he doesn't answer to anyone "not even God".
Too bad the movie undercuts all of its won themes by having Luthor be behind everything. The movie is too cowardly to actually explore the ideas it sets up, so instead of Superman actually being called out for his actions it's Lex moving chess pieces around with no rhyme or reason.
>>81481471
> But I'm sure the thematic significance of that speech went over your head.
Mmm, the 2deep4u argument, always a good sign.
>And there is plenty of other deeper, much subtler thematic threads with the consistent Paul Revere imager that is punctuated with the FDR/JFK/Unknown Soldier funeral, or how they do a whole 5th World thing with the story of Herod, John Babptist, and Jesus.
And all of that is meaningless, it's just random visual references with nothing behind them. It's as empty as the Excalibur reference in the Doomsday fight, it's just there because Snyder thinks it looks cool.
None of it adds up to anything. For all the Nolan Trilogy's problems, at least he understood that the ideological fight of Batman vs The Joker should end in the actual war of order vs chaos. Snyder wants to play around in the big-boy pool while also ending his film with a half-hour fight with Shrek that's entirely pointless beyond driving home the Christ parallels and setting up Justice League bullshit.
This whole time I thought you guys kept posting a picture of Adam Sessler, I didnt even realize it was this dude bald.
>>81481630
Oh for sure. He's got the same tendencies, albeit with different opinions on a lot of matters. See: feminism and blackening of characters.
>>81481739
Lol its not meaningless, but I guess you just didn't get it. Here let me explain to you.
So the Paul Revere speech Luthor gives mentions how the Senator is like Revere in that she is here to warn us about an outside invading force (the Kryptonians/Superman). Before that, in the opening Metropolis scene with Batman, there is a lone, empty horse in the rubble, representing how we had no idea, no real warning of all the destruction that would come. Then after the capitol building explosion the first image we see is a cop on a reeling horse, showing us that we the audience, and the senator, had every warning from Lex about what was going to happen (the piss jar, him finishing up peeing right before talking to the senator, him giving the cripple the new chair, etc.) This is finally turned on its head at the end where they give Superman the same funeral they gave FDR, JFK, and the Unknown Soldier of Vietnam (note they even go as far as to recreate a famous shot from FDR's funeral of a crying blackman). This shows us that Superman was not a foreign threat, but has finally been accepted as an American and a hero to the people. You can even take it a step further with the Unknown Soldier parallel say its mean to show that Superman died in a pointless battle caused by our own fear (just like Vietnam)
>>81481926
And again, none of that means anything. It's not exploring anything interesting about Superman or Batman as characters.
It's all empty references. Just because you semi-quote Paul Revere and add horse imagery does not make that imagery inherently interesting. If The Human Centipede had visual and dialogue references to The Odyssey in it, that would not make it inherently more artistically valuable.
>>81481739
>>81481926
>>81482115
Shit I pressed submit too soon, well let me continue with the Herod stuff. Classically Herod is directly involved in the deaths of Baptist and Jesus, asks for John Baptists' head on a silver plate (there is a famous painting about it) and Lex asks Superman for Batman's head on a silver plate. Just like John Baptist came before Jesus, Batman came before Superman. And Herod, like Lex, inherited his power from his father who was known for rebuilding his kingdom (in the Turkish Airline ads they specifically mention how Lexcorp rebuilt Metropolis). But see this is where things change, Superman and Batman succeed where John and Jesus failed, they defeat their Herod.
Now with the Excalibur stuff, we first see an Excalibur poster in the opening Batman origin flashback (which also takes place the year Excalibur came out). Batman is the black knight, just like lancelot. And Batman will bring together the knights of the round table (Justice League). Lois Lane gets the spear out of the water, just like the Lady of the Lake gets the spear for King Arthur in Excalibur. But she can't bring it all the way out herself. Superman has to go down and get it, and he struggles to get out of the water. This is Superman's baptism which only happened because Batman made the spear (just like how Baptist baptized Jesus). This shows his purification of character, how he has chosen all good over all powerful (the spear literally taking away his power). And then the final scene of him stabbing Doomsday also perfectly mirrors the scene in Excalibur where King Arthur is stabbed to death while also killing his enemy. Also this perfectly mirrors how Zod killed Jor-El
>>81482115
>>81482115
>none of it means anything
But I just fucking told you what it means. The entire time its informing us that everyone thinks of Superman as a threat, and outsider, but in the end we accept him as a hero and one of us. Stop being so goddamn dumb. It is visual language that re-enforces what is happening both actually and thematically.
And before you go on about how the excalibur and jesus stuff doesnt mean anything READ CAREFULLY this time.
Jesus, I guess this movie really WAS too deep for you, and you are stubbornly going to hold on to your ignorance and insistance that it doesnt mean anything.
>>81482115
>again, none of that means anything. It's not exploring anything interesting about Superman or Batman as characters.
Well I guess we agree to disagree because I thought it was an interesting stab at a morality play.
>>81482235
ignore Vash, he is a namefag, and a terrible namefag at that. What kind of idiot wants social capitol via username on an anonymous image board
>>81481739
>Too bad the movie undercuts all of its won themes by having Luthor be behind everything.
Well it is a Superman movie. But seriously speaking, I disagree. Just like with Batman fears concerning Superman, while there is certain validity to everything they explore about questioning Superman's lack of accountability and non-existent legislation based authority to intervene in crises and world events, the point is that modern day cynicism makes us ask all the wrong question. It should not be a question of how can we trust a beign like Superman, it ought to be why shouldn't we trust a man who repeatedly is shown to selfishly devote his energy to help us, asking nothing in return? Why do we automatically need to suspect foul play in true form of benevolent altruism?
>>81482183
>And Herod, like Lex, inherited his power from his father who was known for rebuilding his kingdom (in the Turkish Airline ads they specifically mention how Lexcorp rebuilt Metropolis). But see this is where things change, Superman and Batman succeed where John and Jesus failed, they defeat their Herod.
Except Eisenberg's Luthor is clearly Superman's Pontious Pilate, a disbeliever obsessed with tearing down the messianic figure of Superman. That's literally what that entire terrible speech on the roof is about.
>>81482217
>And before you go on about how the excalibur and jesus stuff doesnt mean anything READ CAREFULLY this time.
I did, and all you're doing is going "A means B which equal reference C." It's the thematic equivalent of a Scary Movie sequel, just empty references that don't add anything of value to the story being told. None of it is explored in the film itself.
>>81482324
>Why do we automatically need to suspect foul play in true form of benevolent altruism?
Considering his benevolent altruism goes away the second Lois disappears, that doesn't hold much water. Making Lois be the key to all this(she's a funnier character then we've ever had before)was a god-awful idea.
>>81482324
>Why do we automatically need to suspect foul play in true form of benevolent altruism?
Because in the DCU there have been two different hostile alien invasions of Earth carried out under pretenses of being humanity's saviors.
Joking aside, you're right, Superman tries time after time to convince people of his intentions through his actions and people second-guess and project motivations he doesn't have onto those actions regardless.
>>81482520
>Except Eisenberg's Luthor is clearly Superman's Pontious Pilate, a disbeliever obsessed with tearing down the messianic figure of Superman. That's literally what that entire terrible speech on the roof is about.
>not seeing the Herod parallels
>being this dumb
>implying people can't be metaphors/parallels for mulitple things
dude everyone is disagreeing with your idioticness you stupid namefag. Just admit you are wrong.
>>81482520
Catholic bro here, that's a misreading of Pulate's character in the passion narratives. Pilate's biggest problem is that he knows Jesus is innocent of the secular, civil charges being brought forth, but fails to understand the cosmic, religious aspect of the conflict in regards to the serious nature of Jesus' own claims. It's because he fails to grasp that side that he's willing to sacrifice one eccentric dissident to the mob to prevent a riot in Roman-occupied Jerusalem.
>>81481739
>Too bad the movie undercuts all of its won themes by having Luthor be behind everything.
The point is that Luthor is swaying public opinion behind the scenes to force the world to see Superman as he views him.
>>81475910
Yes. They replaced his dignity with some mania, which wasn't the greatest idea, but other than that I can see a core of Luthor in there.
But I think I might be too forgiving, in a "I'm fine with it as long as later he becomes the real Lex" way. I shouldn't give Snyder tha much credit.
>>81482607
>Pulate
PILATE, fuck, stupid phone keypad.
>>81482628
Luthor didn't sway jack shit, he merely capitalized on that mindset already present.
>>81476885
I couldn't take it seriously. Felt way too much like a parody of a Nolan-film.
>>81482567
You seem like one of those people that thought Sucker Punch was deep and meaningful.
>>81482607
I was speaking in generalities, but fair enough. I'm not going to pretend I know more about scripture then an actual Catholic, it's just the reading I took considering Superman is such a messianic figure and Luthor is portrayed as the loudest and most obsessive sceptic.
>>81482628
>The point is that Luthor is swaying public opinion behind the scenes to force the world to see Superman as he views him.
And they sure showed that real well by having the movie start with a bunch of people loving Superman and hating Superman, and then post-Senate bombing showing equivalent numbers of people loving Superman and hating Superman.
>>81482770
>You seem like one of those people that thought Sucker Punch was deep and meaningful.
Well I didn't, and you sound like an imbecile who refuses to believe anything other than his own opinion. You're also a name fag on 4chan so....
>>81478968
Lex Luthor is an extremely petty man.
>>81482770
Yes Anon, Sucker Punch sucked, we get it. Just because a Director makes one crapfest doesn't mean he's a bad director.
>>81482770
>loudest and most obsessive sceptic
Ah, the Pharisees!
Judas would actually be Batman in this allegory. Once a believer but unable to accept or understand Jesus's claims of divinity, now seeks in his own mind to stop a dangerous radical, instead of having faith in his teacher.
>>81475910
I liked the idea but he was literally all over the place. It came kff as nonsensical, could not even get a good read on his character or motivations, all he did was sperg off about god all the time. He seemed legitly insane, not comic.book crazy
It's an awful representation of the character that ignores more interesting ideas about who Luthor is, in favor of making him a fairly one note cliche. I can understand the argument that he's entertaining by simply being the most lively character in a dour film, but he acts so ridiculous and believable that it ruins any chance of him being compelling.
>>81482880
>all he did was sperg about god all the time
>failing to understand how the Problem of Evil forms the basis for all the major character conflicts in the movie
This is why Theology classes need to be mandatory in college liberal arts programs again.
>he seemed legitly insane
That was, in fact, the point.
>>81482861
Snyder's an awful director.
>>81480919
That isnt traditional dude.
>>81482183
>But see this is where things change, Superman and Batman succeed where John and Jesus failed, they defeat their Herod.
That's pretty misleading. Neither John nor Jesus even attempted to defeat Herod. He wasn't part of their agenda. The only reason they came into conflict at all is because Herod felt threatened by their influence over the Jews.
>>81483058
I meant "traditional" in the conventional image of Lex in modern comics. I'm going off of DCAU or Johns' Lex. Sorry to not clarify.
>>81481359a
The movie isnt bad because people dont get it, the movie is bad because its poorly acted paced edited and plotted and covers it all in college freshman pretension
>>81483094
Well yeah, but they werent killed by Herod is the point. It is not a 1:1 parallel, but is a interpretation of the story for the modern age using modern characters.
>>81483094
In fact comparing any superhero to Jesus is misreleasing because the one most striking (and contradicting with traditional Jewish understandings of the Messiah) feature was his pacisim and passivity in face of persecution and eventually even an unjust trial and death. There's a reason why he is represented as a lamb so often in Scripture and other religious imagery.
>>81483128
its not though, again I think the people that say that just didn't actually understand the story. If they actually saw where the story starts (instead of people claiming luthor only accounces his plan in the last half hour) they would see its paced fine, and the acting was great
>>81483158
The Bible is full of other characters that make for better fits though. Snyder makes the Jesus parallels to hold up Supes as the highest ideal of "good" for humanity, and while Supes HIMSELF fights against that messianic perception in the movie, he winds up fulfilling it regardless with his death.
Too often people try to force one-to-one allegories of Biblical stories or digures instead of recognizing the context of that imagery within religious tradition itself, or even within the work in question.
>>81483158
Then how is that a parallel at all?
>>81483128
In other words, it wasn't fun, colorful and your ass couldn't stay focused on the actual story.
>>81475910
first time i have taken luthor as a villian seriously. the way he calmly leaves in his helicopter after besting superman was amazing.
>>81483316
No he's right about it being poorly edited. But I don't get how people say that the characters aren't developed or there's no clear theme in this movie. The major character arcs, parallels and foils and interactions between Batman, Superman and Lex are pretty fucking obvious.
>>81475910
Liked him better as the Facebook dude, he was a better villain there.
>>81483193
I understood why Batman killed, it just didn't feel earned or well portrayed. As for Luthor's plan, it's full of several illogical moments, and daddy issues are a lame motivation.
The plot isn't even my biggest issue, it's the horrible depiction of Superman that undercuts the central conflict.
>>81483166
The Jesus stuff is stupid in the first place because there's really not much to it besides the obvious comparison. That and Snyder goes for Jesus symbolism, yet his Superman comes across as a distant and all powerful, more like old testament god than a man of the people.
>>81483407
the jesus stuff was set up to be subverted, superman's sacrifice shits on the common meaning people ascribe to that death
but really, beyond that, BvS specifically takes savior/dying and rising myths as a whole. the jesus imagery gives people a frame of reference
>>81483385
There are character arcs, they are just super extremely simple in Batman's case, barely there in Superman's case, or confusingly repetitive in Lex's case.
It was better than Mos because it wasnt as boring and generic as possible. But it wasnt good. Tolerable is a better term for it. It wasnt actively unpleasent to watch it.
>>81483407
>more like old testament god
Yeah you're just making me think you haven't properly read the old testament
I couls see the parallel between Jesus and an OT prophet though, maybe Jonah or Isaiah, someone who has a huge important duty and constantly doubts his ability or worthiness to see it through. (also see: Elisha immediately after Elijah is assumed into heaven on a fiery chariot)
>>81483193
Everyone gets the film, its just very very VERY basic and poorly put together.
>>81475910
I liked his character as long as viewed it as something not Lex Luthor. Disregarding the not muh, it was fine
>>81483580
Isn't Old Testament God's entire thing that he's all powerful but his motivations are cloudy as fuck to humans because he's such a weird fucking asshole. Snyder's Superman is about the same, makes no effort t explain himself to society is they either live in fear or worship him.
>>81482520
>Except Eisenberg's Luthor is clearly Superman's Pontious Pilate
don't remember luthor ever washing his hands and being confused as to why anyone would want to kill superman
>>81483673
He's vanilla Dr Manhattan by other name, same as Bats was Rorschach lite.
>>81483673
Nope.
OT God pretty clearly instructs his followers what his expectations are, and regularly assures them of his power and protection, including performing massive world-bending miracles.
He's wrathful, but only because DESPITE all of that his chosen people constantly either fuck up, or lose faith in him and turn away.
I loved it.
I mean Luthor has always been a guy who just fucking hates Superman for not entirely rational reasons. In the comics he's more suave and controlled yes but that always fell away as soon as he would start sperging out about Superman.
This movie just made that writ large. He's got serious authority/daddy issues, it seems likely that he killed his abusive father, and so the whole idea of Superman just pushes his buttons. He has an insatiable desire for power, just look at his feeding jolly ranchers to that guy, and hes smart enough to get it.
I also liked his ramblings. He was really convincing as being a guy whose just so used to being so, so much smarter than everyone around him that he's just stopped giving a shit.
The Lex Luthor character has always been defined by his solipism and I think the movie version really nailed that.
>>81482770
>Luthor is portrayed as the loudest and most obsessive sceptic.
i think it's more accurate to sort of strictly interpret him through the promethean faustian lens
satanic even, in how normally people think of satan as someone who saw god and wanted to be narcissistically wanted to be like him
and of course, tie this up with all the power play going on in the movie and you pretty much understand what is going on when lex is moving his hand over a superman that is on his knees
>>81483814
Thank you anon for saying pretty much exactly what I was going to.
The OT can best be describes as "God continually tries to reveal himself to his chosen people and they keep fucking everything up each time"
>>81483262
i think it's also important that savior myths are a trope and that jesus isn't the only death of his kind, aside from the connection to judaism.
although shit, "i am the way" could really be argued to mean anything
>>81483814
Okay, that's fair, I'm admittedly not a religious person. Nonetheless, the Jesus comparisons feel misguided to me. Isn't humanity a large part of Jesus's character? He spends time with the invalids and prostitutes and doesn't judge them for example. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Snyder depicts Superman as so cold and anti-social in a way that completely misunderstands the character in my opinion.
>>81483738
Dr. Manhattan is an extremely compelling character, due to all the human traits he lost when he gained his powers. His inability to perceive time chronologically, and feel things like other people make his detachment from society understandable and interesting. I still remember that line about "Never being able to feel a cold beer on a hot summer's day ever again" years after reading the book. None of that really applies to Superman at all.
>>81484137
>None of that really applies to Superman at all.
exactly my point, fucking Snyder!
>>81475910
Hated him. Worst thing in the movie.
>>81484137
On that, you're pretty on the mark.
A simple way to look at it is that God is an honest judge presiding over the charges of a child he loves. Humanity has committed crimes for which they are guilty. God has to make sure that justice is carried out, but simultaneously, he loves humanity with all his heart; he doesn't want them to be condemned despite their guilt.
Jesus is the solution to that. The ultimate expression of God's justice AND loving mercy in one package. Because Christ was human, he qualifies to "serve our sentence" as it were (suffering, death, etc) and because Christ is also God, and thus perfect and blameless, he's able to bear the guilt of the entirety of the human race.
He comes down, shows love to those who need it most, rebukes those who are leading people astray, and suffers and dies in our place. And then he doesn't stay dead, because he's God and can't be killed, and in doing so proves to man that the price has been paid and that as long as we don't turn our backs on him, it doesn't matter how guilty we are, we'll still be welcome in his kingdom.
So the narrative goes.
I agree that the DCEU Superman doesn't really fit as a Christ parallel except in the most superficial sense. Some versions of him fit more so (particularly those times when he's humbling himself and hanging out with the average Joe's) so the comparison isn't fundamentally wrong... It just doesn't fit so well in this case.
>>81475910
I liked the scene when he and Lois are on top of the building. I don't remember why it's just it was funny as hell when he pushed her off. I saw it coming miles away and it still suprised me when it happened. It's just stupid how Lois wasn't picking up on how crazy he was until he did that. Wow
>>81484137
>Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Snyder depicts Superman as so cold and anti-social in a way that completely misunderstands the character in my opinion.
You're correct in your reading of Jesus' humanity, and while I don't think it was intended to him to be so stone-cold stoic in the movie, I do agree that Superman's portrayal in BvS is one of the big problems I have with it despite me enjoying the movie overall.
>>81475910
I enjoyed him but wanted to see more of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TReIozZ1b10
Seeing Lex helping rebuilding the city would have been a bonus plus for me
>HURR, LOOK AT ME, I THINK I'M PLAYING THE JOKER
>OH, I'M NOT PLAYING THE JOKER
>HURR, LOOK AT ME, I'M GOING TO SEND DOOMSDAY TO DESTROY THE WORLD
>HURR, I'M CALLING DARKSEID TO COME DESTROY THE WORD
>WHY DO I WANT EARTH DESTROYED? CAUS I'M FUCKING CRAZY
>OH, I FORGOT I WASN'T PLAYING JOKER
>this character has nervous tics and a flamboyant theatrical presentation
>hurr durr he must be the Joker
Shut up. Lex has always been a petty psychopath.
I really liked the part where he was talking to Louis and then casually throws her off the top of the building. That part felt like lex, everything else? Not so much.
BvS wasn't a good movie. It's sad, since most viewers can probably see how it 'could' have been good given there are some compelling and exciting things happening throughout. Affleck's acting was great. Other actors are decent, some kind of poorly cast (Luthor), but they do a good job anyway. The story was interesting in it's broad strokes. The themes are interesting too; particularly Supes being a 'flawed God' and Batman being a man who wants to destroy Supes because he represents the Batman's conception of an unjust and morally ambiguous God who let his parents die in front of him (allows for the world to have evil). There are lots of other nice tidbits here and there.
Unfortunately, these positives are bogged down by a long list of problems. Some specific narrative choices are nonsensical or out of place: sexy bathtub scene that wasn't actually sexy just silly and hamfisted (my girlfriend is experiencing ptsd and other traumas, give I'll her the dick that will fix her!), Lex blowing up Capitol hill (basically just showed Lex is a bad dude, but frankly didn't fit into his plans except to show he was an asshole to the audience and also as a shocker), the resolution of Superman and Batman's fight "Martha?!" (was stupid and just lazy as far as narrative resolution goes). These are just to name a few. The editing was god-awful - it felt like the movie was edited to appeal to people with 30 second attention spans, and not even done half-decently like some of the marvel movies. Despite the movie's long run time (which in itself is not a bad thing), major characters were somehow left undeveloped (Wonder Woman, Lex, and even Superman). Sure, I get that Wonder Woman needs to get that photograph, but that's basically it, I know shit-all else about her. It is pretty lazy to forego character development and end up with these one-dimensional characters with no depth. A lot of these problems can be chalked up to bad direction.
Hope this has cleared things up guys.
He was the best thing in the entire movie.
>>81475910
This is Alexander Luthor, the son of Lex Luthor. He was actually spot on for who he was portraying.
It was kind of a weird take but he definitely had the mega petty asshole willing to go to absolutely absurd lengths just to fuck with Superman part of Lex down.
I really enjoyed him giving the Crippled guy a Wheelchair... Just so he could use him to sneak a bomb into the Capitol when Superman was there to fuck with him.
>>81478497
Luthor being an incredibly Petty guy IS a pretty central part of most takes on him though. Even the more cerebral ones that get into his self-justifications more.
>>81479134
Maybe eventually, considering he's in jail now I think the next step is Mad Scientist Lex.
>>81483609
well obviously they don't, look at Vash here struggling to understand the basic themes
>>81483609
it wasnt basic or poorly put together, get off your pretentious high horse. It was more compelling than any other superhero movie.
>>81483574
you're wrong
>>81483290
Its a parallel in that Herod/Lex asks for John Bat-ist's head on a Silver Platter. Its a parallel in that Herod/Lex has a hand in the attempted demise of both Bat-tist and Super Jesus. Only in the bible they die, in this movie they dont. Stop being so goddamn literal and learn metaphors.
>>81483262
I agree, but I think the Herod/John Bat-ist/Super Jesus thread is definitely there, even if it is just one of many.
>>81475910
I thought he was excellent actually, a neurotic yet unsettling guy obsessed with power, and a tech billionaire of course, which I thought was a funny if blunt take on what today's equivalent of Lex would be. He's basically a separate character to comic Lex.
>>81488179
Tdk is the most comoelling superhero.
Bvs watched like an okay college play
>>81475910
Lex was my favourite character in the movie. I love that everyone is concerned with his facade, meanwhile he manipulated all events from the international intervention of superman at the start to the death at the end.
