For most of the 2000's, Disney's animated films were pretty rocky - they moved away from the Renaissance/Broadway Musical-ish movies of the 90's, and tried a lot of different styles instead. Do you think any of these were worth it? Some were successful (Lilo), some were failures but are now seen as good movies by others (Atlantis, etc.), while others are widely viewed as shit (Home on the Range, Chicken Little).
Do you enjoy the movies from this era? Do they hold any nostalgia for you, or were you "too old for Disney" around the time they came out, as many who were kids during the early years of the Renaissance I think were? What direction do you think Disney might have taken with these films to make them better?
>>81456624
You don't like Bolt so you shove it in that era? It was a fine movie and marked Disney's turning point. Tangled only did better because it was a princess movie.
Emperor's New Groove was hilarious - I know a lot of people wished it was Kingdom of the Sun, but I still find it the funniest movie Disney's ever made. LIlo and Stitch was also great, and I enjoy Atlantis and Treasure Planet and consider them under-rated.
I found Dinosaur boring though, Brother Bear could be good but Phil Collins ruins it (ironic since he's one of the best parts about Tarzan), and of course Disney just turned into complete shit from 2004 through 2006, finally redeeming itself with Robinsons in 2007.
>>81456711
OP here, I did not make that graphic, it's just from the only general post I've ever seen delineating eras. And in general I see most people start the Revival with PATF. Disney themselves do start it with Bolt though apparently, and I personally would argue it starts with Meet the Robinsons. I'd like the discussion to focus more on the earlier movies in the image though.
Lilo, Atlantis, Treasure Planet, and Emperor's are all great.
Fantasia was also good, but not as good as the original. Rhapsody in Blue is GOAT.
Robinsons is also remembered pretty fondly, from what I remember.
The others were pretty bad.
>>81456772
Someone bought me Dinosaur when I was little, and it was just weird. I still remember most of it, but it's just not that good.
>>81456855
I agree with this mostly. Bolt is pretty good tho.
>>81456624
My household just watched Treasure Planet last night. Gorgeous movie, really humanizes and complicates the relationship between Jim Hawkins and Long John Silver.
Stream on as part of a M-W-F Disney/Pixar marathon. Shorts on now, first movie in about 10 minutes. Tonight is The Emperor's New Groove, Monsters, Inc., and Atlantis: The Lost Empire
live stream dot com slash oakshappyfuntime
>>81456624
There's not a single film in there i would dare call above average. Treasure Planet and L&S are pretty close though
>>81457165
The music alone from Lilo and Stitch put it above average.
Not as good as most of the Renaissance songs, but still head and shoulders above most others.
>>81456624
>disney eras
when will this meme going to end?
>>81456624
>2 okay movies followed by 4 great movies followed by 3 trash movies followed by 2 okay movies
I guess that's a net positive?
>>81457339
I'd say Brother Bear was okay. It's real fuck up was deciding to have Phil Collins sing over the emotional climax of the movie instead of just letting it play out.
>>81456855
>Treasure Planet
Anon, we need to have a talk
>>81457485
I'd put both Atlantis and TP in the upper good/lower great range. It's a lot of personal preference at that point.
>>81456624
Lilo and Stitch and Emperor's New Groove are GOAT.
Atlantis and Treasure Planet were both pretty great.
Dinosaur was weird.
Haven't seen the rest.
>>81456624
can we just call it 'before Disney figured out how to market Barbie characters as the west's version of waifus' era?
Of the ones I saw:
>Lilo and Stitch
Very meh.
>Treasure Planet
Good. Not sure why it bombed, it really shouldn't have.
>Brother Bear
Okay. Not much more.
>Chicken Little
Shit.
>Meet the Robinsons
Pretty good, but it didn't feel like a Disney movie. Hard to explain beyond that but maybe that's what hurt its appeal. It was too quirky, I'd call it.
>Bolt
Okay, but nothing particularly amazing. Felt like it could have been better.
I think the only one that's worth looking back on and learning from would be Treasure Planet, but I guess that's mostly from being based on the book, and not entirely on its own merits.
>>81456624
What is Meet the Robinsons even about? I remember the trailers explained nothing about about the movie and left me with no desire to see it
>>81456624
Lilo and Stitch is one of my favorite disney movies. I view it as just a bit worse than Beauty and the Beast. Atlantis and Treasure Planet were both good. Emporer's New Groove was good too.
The rest I didn't enjoy. Haven't seen Fantasia 2000 though.
>>81457933
Genius orphan boy goes to the future and meets an awesome family. Time shenanigans ensue.
>>81457933
Time travel and the main character hanging around with his future family (MILF wife included).
>>81456624
>>81457848
I think part of the failures of this era might have been that people were feeling fairly cynical about Disney as a whole.
This is most strongly seen with Treasure Planet and Atlantis which were both good movies but often accused of being painfully derogatory. I remember reading a scathing critique on Treasure Planet about how "the latest literary master piece to sent to the Disney slaughter house for butcher is Treasure Island, now done as a campy science fiction with teenage angst".
I stopped reading about there, it seemed like the critique had formed their opinion on the movie well in advance of seeing it and only sought out its flaws and then put them under a magnifying glass while glossing over anything good about it.
>>81457933
It's a pretty good, feelsy time-travel comedy about a young orphan boy genius inventor having to move on his obsession with discovering his birth parents.
Problem was the marketing focused way too much on the goofy dinosaur that only shows up at the end of the second act. Second act in general is where most of the weird family stuff is and turns some people off, but it's essentially what the movie's original source material (a William Joyce storybook) was.
All this positivity about Meet The Robinsonsand the review Mr. Enter did of itis getting me somewhat interested in watching it.
Explain to me exactly how Chicken Little and Barnyard and Home on the Range are experimental?
Both seem exactly like straigh to TV movies nowadays, whereas they both probably would have sufficed as feature length films about five years prior to their release date.
>>81459240
I think the experiment was giving those "straight to TV movie" ideas a larger animation/marketing budget to see if they'd sink or float.
>>81456711
Bolt wasn't terrible, but still felt like a Dreamworks envy movie, Tangled was the true turning point for Disney to return to top dog
>>81459240
not sure about Home on the Range but Chicken Little was Disney trying to copy Dreamworks
>>81459313
That doesn't seem all that experimental to me, it just seems more or less like throwing shit to the wall and seeing what sticks.
Lilo and Stitch or Emperor's New Groove seemed somewhat more experimental than that, in that they had purpose behind their differences. A made-for-movie-TV is not in and out of itself all that drastically different from a blockbuster release, they are just in general made much more sloppily.
I do not think that those ideas exactly count as experimental in the sense that they were playing around with orthodox formats or ideas which had previously been untested, but rather were just derivative of older films about animals.
>>81459240
>Chicken Little
Eisner asking "Can we do our own Shrek?"
But really, the "Experimental Age" term gets used because almost everything deviates from typical Disney formulas and a lot of it is Disney trying to find its ground after the end of the Renaissance.
Or just a more polite term then "Second Dark Age" or whatever.
>>81456624
Emperor's New Groove, Atlantis, Lilo & Stitch and Treasure Planet are fucking incredible.
I think Brother Bear gets too much guff.
>>81459442
I didn't make up the term, man.
Take it up with whoever did.
>>81459556
Not your fault guy, frankly I don't think Disney's "Animated Canon" can cleanly be divided into eras. There are certain distinguishing features between some of the films, but I do not think its really all that helpful or useful to categorize Disney film by any sort of time period other than decade.
Brother Bear was far from perfect but, I still find it to have the best portrayal of familial bonds than any other Disney movie that I've watched.
It just bugs me that it gets shit on so often while the lovely looking but, ultimately MOR Big Hero 6 gets, comparatively speaking, a lot more praise.
>>81459836
Even the most accurate, the 90's Renaissance, has the Rescuers sequel, which is pretty wonky and doesn't fit the other films.
>>81459981
I kind of don't get the affection for Big Hero Six, although it was essentially a kid's blockbuster, so I can understand the appeal. I even like the film (more so than either Tangled or Frozen), but I don't think it was exactly spectacular.
It winning an Oscar made that year pretty bad for animation though.
I'll admit to being neutral at best on Brother Bear. Appreciated the setting and the characters, but for some reason never got a FUCKYEAR reaction from me.
>>81456624
Fant 2K had it's shinning moments but is mostly forgettable.
Dinosaur was more of the same moses story and a slog.
Groove was a humorous pleasant surprise given it's troubled production but hardly a classic. And I'm okay with that.
Atlantis was an overloaded pulpy feast for the eyes stargate rip-off adventure and I loved every second of it.
L&S was of course is this era's MVP. Gorgeous, touchy, funny and weird.
Treasure, you victim of the times, you. You broke the mold and they never tried to recreate it again. Bold, heartfelt, innovative and no wonder it sunk like a rock.
Bear, the only one I can't look at objectively and have seen. Fucking can't stand that li'l shit.
Home On the Range, like most anyone with common sense, I have not had the pleasure.
Chicken, Robinsons and Bolt were alright. Good enough to catch on a live broadcast and sit through the rest of it. Just charming enough.
>>81460240
>Fantasia 2000
I'll admit, I love it solely for James Earls Jones and the buildup to a joke about flamingos.
That and whales.
>>81457165
If you think that Emperor's New Groove was anything less than an 8/10 there is something seriously wrong with you.
>>81459442
>it just seems more or less like throwing shit to the wall and seeing what sticks
Oh you mean like, EXPERIMENTING?
>>81457154
Credits rolling on ENG. Monsters, Inc. coming up.
Emperor's New Groove, Lilo&Stitch, and Bolt I like from this group. I actually think Bolt kicked off Disney's revival in animated features.
Dinosaur is just a fucking downer of a movie.
>Fantasia 2000
Way too short. Even re-using The Sorceror's Apprentice, its runtime is pitiful compared with the original.
>Emperor's New Groove
It's a miracle that a production that troubled could produce a movie that was even watchable, let alone as fantastic as it is.
>Lilo & Stitch
Most heartwarming movie they've made in the past 30 years.
>Bolt
Uh, well...they pissed Sanders off so he went to Dreamworks and made HTTYD so...does that count?
>>81460853
The movie Sanders wanted wouldn't have worked. The director of Zootopia could have thrown the same shit-fit when they basically told him to change the entire movie. But he didn't.
>>81460898
>The movie Sanders wanted wouldn't have worked.
Says who? John "Cars-loving retard" Lasseter?
>>81460853
>It's a miracle that a production that troubled could produce a movie that was even watchable, let alone as fantastic as it is.
Tell me more about this troubled production.
I would like to learn more.
>>81460413
No, experimental films at least have a focus and intent. Those seemed more or less like people taking the most common denominators of prior successful movies and sticking them together in a ball and hoping that they were hitting the correct marketing notes. That's clearly not meant by purposeful experimenting in film format or subject matter.
Some other anons have forwarded pretty compelling reasons why you would consider Chicken Little "experimental" insofar as it was an attempt to understand how to make a Dreamworks style hit like Shrek, and although that might be investigating a certain style of filmmaking I'm not entirely sure it's what you would call exactly trying something non-standard.
>>81460980
Watch The Sweatbox.
It's one of those Alien 3 "oh shit we pissed away half the budget on crap that will never make it to the screen" type deals.
>>81461033
>Watch The Sweatbox
I mean, it's an hour and a half long, can you just tell me about it?
>>81461146
Christ man, you really think he can summarize everything in a 1000 word post?
>>81461146
Here comes the airplane.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sweatbox
>>81461295
All those lost songs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAt9ovvKgCU
Hold on, I have something buried in my/frz/folder for this.
>Lilo and Stitch and Emperor's New Groove
GOAT-tier. Off beat, but surprisingly charming. What do I need to say about the movies that gave us Pacha and Based Sanders?
>Fantasia 2000
Pretty good. The "Firebird" sequence was really impressive. Reusing "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" was disappointing given the short run time.
>Atlantis and Dinosaur
Okay, but not great. Atlantis seems like Disney trying to be all dark 'n edgy, but it has some moments and the characters can be interesting. Dinosaur has quite a few similar moments to "The Lion King" and ends up being kind of forgettable, but the animation was really good for the time.
>Brother Bear
I actually think this one is underrated. The animation is beautiful, the voice acting is great for the most part, and it isn't afraid to tell a grim, unconventional story. Yeah, Phil Collins wasn't the best choice, but most other things hold up well.
>Bolt
S'alright. Interesting take on the Truman Show. Good for a chuckle.
>Treasure Planet and Meet the Robinsons
Haven't seen these, actually.
>Chicken Little and Home on the Range
Shameful. The movies that guaranteed Pixar's dominance for the rest of the decade.
>>81460456
Atlantis starting in a few minutes.
>>81456624
What's the first image?
I feel like I should know what it is but I can't remember.I loved Dinosaur
>>81466079
First image is Fantasia 2000 - the Firebird sequence in particular.
>All these people liking Treasure Planet
You guys are pretty cool
On a side note, I always liked Meet the Robinsons. Maybe it was just the 50's retro-futurist aesthetic they went for, but I thought it was pretty solid otherwise as well.
This seems like the best thread to ask this in.
What are the rankings of all the CG Disney movies from Toy Story to Moana?
>>81466595
Moana's not out yet but,
Zootopia = The Lion King
Moana = Pocahontas
Once again Disney put faith in the wrong movie.
>>81466812
>Moana's not out yet
This is /co/, nobody's seen it but we already know how good it is
>>81456711
Bolt is sort of stuck in limbo between this 2000's-era stuff and the more modern stuff, partially because it was in development as one of these 2000's era-stuff, and then was significantly reworked into something that is ALMOST the modern stuff, but falls just a bit short.
I really love Bolt, actually, but I'm not certain where I'd put it. In terms of development and that vague notion of "whatever the fuck it is culturally viewed as", it certainly belongs with these, though the end product I would agree belongs with the modern stuff. At the end of the day I still would put it with this era because I like Princess and the Frog as the first one in the modern era- PatF was consciously and deliberately a return to form for the animation department, and really laid the groundwork for the modern successes they've had. Bolt was an "experimental era" film that was bandaged up.
Anyway, RE: The films
Lilo & Stitch is, imo, unambiguously one of the best films Disney has ever put out, and they haven't topped it since. It is original, charming, funny, weird (in the right way) and emotional, and it all comes off as a completely effortless, natural endeavor. When I see people suggest that it is anything less than this it makes me wonder what they're missing.
As for the rest
>The Actually Good Movies
Emperor's New Groove (one of my favorite Drunk With Friends movies), Bolt, probably Fantasia 2000 but I haven't seen it
>I want them to be GREAT but held back by big flaws
Atlantis, Treasure Planet, Brother Bear
These three get a lot of good will from me because I think they have some great ideas involved but at the end of the day they don't quite work. Great example of the fact that the execution is just as important as the idea.
>Better than I expected but that isn't saying much
Meet the Robinsons
>Bad
Dinosaur, Probably Home on the Range
>>81456624
>Fantasia 2000:
It's not as good as the original, which so happens to be one of my all time favorite Disney movies. F2 did have some pretty stellar animated segments, each one having it's own style. That CG segement with the nutcraker and jack-in-the-box was pretty good, and I distictively recall getting teary-eyed as a five year old seeing that "Firebird" segement, just because I saw volcano's magma kill "mother nature." The cameos were pretty stupid and pointless, there were some fun segments for the kiddies, but those ended up being my least favorites.
>Dinosaur:
Boring. Hardly remember anything about this film, which is a shame because the animation for early 2000's was pretty impressive, even predating Shrek!
>Altantis: The Lost Empire:
This one tends to get panned by a lot of people because
>it's a Pocahontas rip-off
Meh, it is a similar idea, but what they do with this movie makes even forget that I was watching a Pocahontas clone. The characters were all fun, but I do wish they had a little more personality, the animation style is pretty neat. I loved the ancient creatures that they fought when they were in the sub-marine. Pretty good film imo.
>Lilo and Stitch:
This movie totally nailed human characters, and while the whole alien sage is pretty silly, I loved just about everything else. Solid Disney movie, also my sister's favorite.
>Treasure Planet:
This movie was okay. I didn't fun this movie all that memorable, nor delightfully appealing, and it might have to do with the fact that all of the colors were an orangy-tint. It just seemed passable, but not enough for me to recommend to anyone.
>>81456624
>Best Tier
ENG and Lilo&Stitch
>Great Tier
Meet the Robinsons, Atlantis and TP.
>Good Tier
Brother Bear, Bolt and Fantasia 2000
>Meh Tier
Chicken Little
>Shit Tier
Home on the Range
Emperor's New Groove and Lilo and Stitch both deserve to be amongst Disney's best. They are both incredibly funny and L&S is quite touching. Treasure Planet
Meet the Robinsons is an under appreciated movie that is charming and funny. The animation isn't quite Pixar quality, but it is still quite good. Atlantis often gets ragged on for being a rip off of Nadia or Stargate, but it is a great pulpy ride with memorable characters and wonderful Mic Mignola visuals. Treasure Planet is an interesting adaptation of Treasure Island. Like Atlantis the characters are memorable and the relationship between Jim and Silver works wonderfully.
My memories of Brother Bear are hazy. I remember liking the setting and visuals, but hating the moose. Bolt is an interesting premise and his relationship with the cat is great, but the movie faulters several places. Most notably in Penny, whom is so boring her life being put in danger is about as interesting as watching paint dry. Fantasia 2000 is just an unnecessary sequel.
A lot of people treat Chicken Little as horrible beyond redemption, but I think it is a perfectly watchable movie. Nothing too special or too shitty, just sort of there.
Home on the Range is a movie I could see working if they had put some effort in it, but ultimately it is a lazy piece of shit.
>>81468615
Who the fuck considers Atlantis a Pocahontas ripoff? Besides, when people bitch about Atlantis being derivative, it's whining about how Disney ripped off their Chinese cartoons
>>81468615
>(Cont.)
>Brother Bear:
This movie was not that good as I remember. It has some interesting set ups like how it centers around Native American culture (ironically outdoing what Pocahontas probably could have been). The Phil Colins sountrack was pretty obnoxious, the side characters don't really offer that much other than a few silly gags for the kids. It's probably in the same category as Treasure Planet as "passable"
>Home on the Range:
This was probably the first time a Disney movie legitimately pissed me off! Annoying characters and the story and animation gives me that 40's/50's cartoon vibes that was already dead long ago. I hope Disney never decides to do something like this again.
>Chicken Little:
Liked this movies 10 years ago in theaters, and now I hate it. This may sound like an overrated opinion, but good lord this main character go shit on pretty hard, even when his faults were just accidental. The animation was also pretty stuttery, but that's probably because this was Disney's attempt to do a full-length CG movie that focused on being primarily cartoony. Pretty bad movie, and one of my least favorites of all time.
>Meet the Robinsons:
Unlike Chicken Little, this one was decent. Lots of fun unique characters, the villain was probably my favorite.But oddly enough, there isn't too much I can remember off the top of my head other than that there's some pretty cliche storytelling with the whole time travel plot, but it never get grating enough that I have to stop watching. This one's also passable.
>Bolt:
This movie is pretty fun. I love how the other house pets as constantly messing with the main character because he's so convinced about the life he thinks he's actually living. Good movie, but not great.
>Meet the Robinsons
>Bolt
Had no idea these were even Disney movies, I could've sworn they were from dreamworks or some indie studio
>>81468724
Apparently tons of people. I didn't necessarily see it as a rip-off either, but like I said before, there was a lot to like that stopped me from thinking in the ways that others considered terrible.
>>81468784
Oh shit I forgot Emperor's New Grove.
This movie was pretty enjoyable. I loved the art style, the quick deadpan humor, and the villains were pretty funny. That movie loads of David Spade sass.
I loved Bolt and I was in college when it came out, but a lot of that was heavy nostalgia for Homeward Bound + having had a cat with a history similar to Mittens.
>>81456624
5 of these movies were GOAT
Which are they?
Dont get it wrong
>>81456855
>Rhapsody in Blue is GOAT.
Yeah.
I found Treasure Planet a bit boring when it came out, probably because they stuck too close to the Island book.
>>81468955
Atlantis
Treasure planet
Emperor's new stand
Lilo & StitchDinosaurs
How many era's of Disney Animation have there been? As I can see it's the Walt era, the Post-Walt era, the Dark era, the Renaissance era, the Experimental era, and now we're in the Second Renaissance era.
>>81456624
>Fantasia
Good just to appreciate the beautiful art and animation
>Dinosaur
It's the first movie I remember being disappointed in
>Emperor's New Groove
Hilarious, first and only Disney movie that has me laugh hysterically from beginning to end >Atlantis
Good
>Lilo & Stitch
Amazing, one of my favorites
>Treasure Planet
Pretty cool
>Brother Bear
Meh
>Home on the Range
Never saw it because it looks awful
>Chicken Little
Bad
>Meet the Robinsons
Surprisingly good
>Bolt
Ok
>>81469259
That about covers it. I wonder what the next era will be.
