Where were the establishing shots?
Where was the pacing or narrative flow?
What is this, fucking amateur hour?
>>81344787
For real, it messed up shit I expect A level film students to get right. It's embarrassing.
Even Fan4stic had fucking establishing shots. Jesus Christ.
Sitting through the batmobile chase like
Shut up Bob
damn. didn't know movies are required to have establishing shots
>>81344787
On the editing floor, along with the plausible character development and any indication that Superman is actually more than just a one dimensional Christ allegory.
>>81348850
You do know that the Christian imagery is there not because Superman is supposed to be Jesus Christ but because all the other characters are worshiping him, right?
>>81348760
Of fucking course they are. This is a huge, triple A movie, with several million dollars poured into it, not a student film. Of course they needed establishing shots.
>>81351331
Sure it was, buddy.
That's why Snyder recreated actual renaissance paintings of Christ for his death scene when there was literally nobody around who worshiped him.
I swear, the fans of this move are as dumb as its director.
>>81351442
It serve for the audience as well. Everything in the movie is trying to make Superman to be either God or a Devil. That's why all the imagery to nudge your perception.
>>81344787
>amateur hour
>hour
>singular
I fucking wish
>>81351508
Which is why he's so one dimensional and unrelatable.
>>81344787
Right? Talk about ADD. The Lex introduction and the knightmares came out of fucking nowhere with zero segway
>>81351564
I won't disagree with you on that.
>>81344787
>>81344837
>>81351378
Fucking hell this is cringeworthy. No, you don't need establishing shots. Not in the least. There are many ways of setting a scene.
Have any of you fucks- actually, it's probably a samefag- studied film? Or have you just watched a lot of RLM videos and browsed Reddit a lot to repeat what they say, thinking it means you know all about the medium?
Fuck you, you dumb piece of shit.
>>81351651
>There are many ways of setting a scene.
Is cutting to a scene directly into dialogue without a difference in filter or lighting to know where the fuck you are?
Did they teach you that at film school? Are you that guy from the other thread that knew film? Does anyone else remember him?
>>81344787
I just loved how out of nowhere, nearly 2 hours in, they establish that Gotham City and Metropolis are separated by a freakin harbor.
>>81351651
I have studied film, you fucking moron, and there are other ways of setting a scene, which is funny, because this movie did none of them. Hastily smash cutting from one scene to the next with no sense of consistency, creativity, or continuity isn't setting a scene, and keeping the same shitty gray filter over everything doesn't help matters.
>>81351651
>There are many ways of setting a scene.
If it serves a purpose, there is.
Establishing shots are among the very basic tools of narrative film.
Unless you have a good reason not to use them, you should.
You also don't need to properly light a set or add folly in post, but usually you gain nothing by it apart from a film that seems ugly or unfinished.
Did anybody else find this movie hilarious at certain points.
I just want to show people the jar-of-piss-cripple-spontaneously-combusting scene completely out of context. It'd be surreal.
Hell, I laughed my ass off, even knowing what was going on.
>>81352165
I didn't get why it took her so long to notice what it was. I don't remember who brought it, either, but wasn't it opened? How could she not smell it?
>>81352165
For all it's faults, it is a pretty funny movie. The long succession of poor creative choices almost makes it seem like a Tim & Eric sketch, or a parody of a Batman v. Superman movie.
>>81352165
I was so confused about that piss jar
>>81352261
The whole fact that Batman and Superman fight in a dirty toilet and Batman knocks him out with a sink is another part where I was basically grinning like an idiot.
The only way that could have been better if he had literally tried to drown him in one of the toilet bowls.
>>81352228
That's one of the reasons it's so fucking funny.
>Holly Hunter does her horrible Kentucky accent
>looks at piss
>stops talking
>looks at Superman
>tries to say something
>looks at piss again
>gaps with her mouth open
>keeps staring at piss
>looks at cripple
>Superman also looks at cripple
>cripple is so uncomfortable with the whole situation, that he explodes in shame
>Superman stands in burning wreckage with the expression of someone who just stepped in dogshit
It really seems like a bit from an absurdist sketch.
>>81352537
It wasn't even Edge or Extreme. It was just boring and depressing. It wasn't 90's shit, it was early 00's evanescence emo bullshit.
>>81352569
>Superman stands in burning wreckage with the expression of someone who just stepped in dogshit
I can't wait for the edits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyZDZCGQJf8
>>81352581
>the Gentry trying to deprive people of fun
THE HYPERCRISIS IS REAL
>ITT: Professional directors, cinematographers, writers, actors, artists, businessmen, economists, etc. who just happen to post regularly on a faux-Jap jpeg board give expert advice on a movie, cartoon, comic, etc.
>>81353427
I don't need to be a world-class chef to know I've been served shit on a plate instead of a burger.
>>81353499
And yet you'd still would make a worse dish if you did it yourself.
>>81351817
>Out of nowhere
what are those colorful picture books about guys in pajamas called? i think the idea came out of one of those.
It's like writing an essay without an introductory paragraph. Not all of them need one, but you're going to have to make something amazing to defend that stylistic choice.
Snyder didn't do that. The establishing shots were simply taken out to shove more useless shit into the movie.
>>81353570
Probably, that's why I'm not hired to make food, but it doesn't excuse it for being shit.
>>81353570
Sweet deflection, Maryann. Guess that means there's nothing wrong with BvS.Though it is annoying that all of /tv/ just parrots RLM's complain about establishing shots. They were in there and Jay was too fucking stupid to pay attention to them.
>>81344787
>I need a conventional action flick narrative flow or else I cannot follow it
Is this the fucking pleb hour?
>>81353691
The complaint came way before Half in the Bag. It's still not an invalid one, and most of the crucial scenes didn't have it. The 1st hour only has a couple of them.
I have to admit I felt several parts of the movie where involuntarily funny. Probably because the movie tries so hard to make every moment epic.
>Batman's awkward position when the police officers find the handcuffed man
>Batman slowly grabbing a bathroom sink, going over to Superman and smashing it on his head as operatic music plays.
>The entire Capitol scene.
>Lex Luthor's prison freakout. Especially because he had snot running down his nose the entire time.
>Straddling with Zod's naked rotting corpse to put him in the Kryptonian pool of magic, then caressing his face, crying and saying "You flew too close to the Sun".
Just heard a buddy ramble on about why he hated the movie and how another buddy that went along with him, while wearing his Captain America shield/backpack, was disgusted by the movie.
The biggest problem with this movie is that people go in expecting another Marvel popcorn movie, if you ask me. It's flawed for sure, but also shows great depth in its heroes at the same time. It requires you to pay closer attention than your regular Marvel hero movie. One thing that saddens me greatly, and perfectly illustrates what I mean, is that a common complaint is that the "Martha" scene is dumb and ridiculous. This while to me, it was undoubtedly a very powerful and meaningful scene.
I can't say enough how much I like this movie, and hope the director's cut does away with most of my qualms, but it's unfairly being put in the same box as movies that are completely different beasts, like Age of Ultron.
>>81353747
Even The Dance of Reality has establishing shots, you're the pleb
Drama is inherently superior to comedy
Since Batman v Superman is a mediocre superhero DRAMA and Age of Ultron (and most Marvel flicks) are mediocre superhero COMEDIES that makes BvS better than most marvel movies.
>>81353865
>shows great depth in its heroes at the same time
Fine, I'll bite. Where?
Why do movies NEED anything? Why does any form of medium NEED anything besides the basic requirements to fit inside if that medium.
How fucking boring do you have to be to think people should follow a set of rules or commonplace techniques to make a movie? It's an expression of art, not a textbook.
I'm not even going to defend the movie. I enjoyed it but the editing was extremely questionable in how close it came to feeling like flipping pages. Interesting but probably a bad choice. Lots of off the wall filmmaking ideas went into this that may have worked and might not have.
This thread is still extremely retarded for claiming there needed to be any kind of specific shots or techniques. Push the boundaries a little, faggot. You should feel bad about yourself.
>>81344787
>muh handholding
goddamn retards
>>81353865
The problem is that while it may seem deep at first, the more you think about it, the worse it gets. The characters, and frankly the story in general just doesn't make any sense. It seems like it's deep, and if you don't think about it too hard, it does display more depth than the average marvel movie, at least for the first hour or so. Soon after, the writers give up on any actually interesting parts and default back to Doomsday and Superman punching each other, as an depth they might have had or been building completely vanishes in favor of more of Snyder's trademark mediocre, gray action.
>>81354006
Talent and a truly creative mind can allow you to not use many of the basic conventions of films. Snyder has neither.
>>81353795
Nothing tops Supes' Spearing Double D.
It's the single most retarded course of action he could possibly take but damned if the movie isn't going to play it up like he's sacrificing himself for our sins.
>>81353951
Tsk, come on man, you're better than that. Look how he sets up by association that people who did not enjoy this movie are
a. Idiots
and
b. Marvel fans
Hell, his image literally leads you into this.
Play smarter, not harder
>>81354030
This. Wrapping shit up in some so-called symbolic shots and brooding ambience doesn't make it deep. Fuck, it's like anime fans and evangelion all over again.
>>81354006
>batman vs superman
>two superheroes brawling it out
>one who hasn't even been established in the DCEU and obviously doesn't hold the ideology as other cinematic Batmans
>ART
lmao, yeah Zach "Sucker Punch" Snyder truly is an artist
>>81353865
>great depth
>FUCKIN PISSED Batman
>Just kind of constipated Superman
>>81354030
This is the most retarded pseudo-intellectual post I've read in a long time. You sound just like your description of Snyder. At least he knows he's making movies/longform music videos about superheroes punching things. You're posting the kind of tripe you wasted thousands of dollars learning in some sheltered college on an anime image board.
>>81353691
>4ch parrots opinions from the makers of Space Cop to try and sound smart.
Yeah, sounds like something this place would do.
>>81354190
>longform music videos about superheroes punching things
>It's an expression of art
:^)
>>81354190
Jesus Christ, is it possible that I just enjoy talking about films?
>>81354141
I would easily say Sucker Punch is art. It's film at it's purest expression as an audio-visual sensory experience. No story or characters to care about but beautiful imagery, shots, people, and music filling the screen for an hour and a half.
It's a different kind of art but that makes it art in it's own right.
>>81354228
Not that guy, but there are some fantastically artistic music videos.
I think we can all agree that this scene was GOAT.
https://twitter.com/CinematicEX/status/716049747597926400
>>81354272
I mean, every movie Snyder's ever made is art, that's the thing about art, you can't say what is and isn't art. As long as it emotionally effects somebody, somewhere, it's art.
>>81354279
Yeah, I liked when Batman blew a guy the fuck up
>>81352165
>Did anybody else find this movie hilarious at certain points.
>I just want to show people the jar-of-piss-cripple-spontaneously-combusting scene completely out of context. It'd be surreal.
I've been thinking the exact same thing ever since I saw that scene. I can't wait till I can get an HD rip of it and make it a webm
>>81354272
>Sucker Punch is art
Well, we're officially through the looking glass on Snyder's career
>>81353951
>>81354053
Not that anon, but the movie is full of imagery, references and associations. I find it strange that people here fellate Morrison for this shit but make fun of Snyder for doing the same.
>>81354030
Doomsday's an extension of everything that happened before, though. Seriously. It's a slugfest catharsis to close the third act, but the metaphorical is made literal.
How can you ignore that?
>>81354314
>being this triggered
Why don't you go write a blog post about it.
>>81354464
Because the metaphor isn't deep or interesting. It's the most basic analysis of these characters and plots you can get.
>>81354146
>>81354314
Not MUH complaint, seriously?
>>81354353
This. The movie is like a Morrison comic in live action with the way it flows and the way themes are presented.
Morrison was hated by a lot of people for this for a long time.
>>81354489
I thought that it was interesting.
Doomsday was a dark mirror of both Superman and Batman and the embodiment of everything Lex tried to do throughout the movie.
For a pleb like me to see a big baddie show up like that for the big hero fight was neat. It was like Ryu and Ken beating up Gouki. It isn't deep or anything, but it's a very neat idea.
>>81351517
>pic
As a Christian, I shouldn't be laughing, but I am
This movie is pure unadulterated capeshit at its finest. People just weren't ready for it. Not saying it's good, but it's certainly the most comic booky comic book movie ever made aside from maybe Sin City.
>>81344787
>muh establishing shots
there were plenty of them and it worked when there weren't any.
i really feel sorry for anyone who was incapable of keeping up with this movie.
>>81354591
See, but my problem is that if they wanted to have Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman team up to fight Doomsday, they didn't need all this basic "depth", the heavy-handed Christ symbolism, the fake political drama, it was all unnecessary. If they'd just had a simple, basic plot, I would have easily shilled out money for it, because I'd be perfectly happy with a simple movie where Superman and Batman fight, then team up and fight Doomsday. That sounds great, but they shoehorned this plot that tried to be way more deep than it was.
>>81354519
At least the imagery in Morrison comic serves some sort of purpose. Snyder just throws stuff in because it looks cool
>>81354663
>only smart people will understand this movie ;^)
>>81354697
>I don't want my superhero movies to try to be anything more than shitty multicolor exploitation films
You're part of the problem.
>>81354737
not so much that. you're just a fucking moron if you can't keep up with it.
honestly, it wasn't difficult.
>>81354751
Fuck off.
> This movie's too deep for you!
> Wait no, it's just a fun comic book movie.
> What the fuck, you just want a comic book movie, you're part of the problem!
>>81354697
>See, but my problem is that if they wanted to have Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman team up to fight Doomsday, they didn't need all this basic "depth", the heavy-handed Christ symbolism, the fake political drama, it was all unnecessary.
The fuck? What makes something necessary or unnecessary?
I like that the movie tried show the consequences of someone like Superman existing in the world and how people deal with that kind of power. I like that Lex manipulated the whole world against Superman by spreading fear and hate - almost like if he was spreading the anti-life equation, i liked how they showed Superman struggling with adoration and hate, i like all the imagery calling back to myths, literature and other comic book movies.
Was it necessary? I don't know, but i liked that it was there.
>>81354707
>Snyder just throws stuff in because it looks cool
They served a purpose, man. Stop trying to dismiss shit without putting any effort to engage it. Shit was pretty blatant even.
>>81354821
I felt it dragged down the movie, it wasn't well written enough to really feel like it belonged, and it distracted from what was clearly the main focus of the movie, the action.
You obviously disagree, and that's fine, but I felt it was unnecessary, and only served to bog down the film.
You know, I'm really pleased that Snyder was able to sneak both MoS and BvS - two of what is arguably the most pure DC style capeflicks - through to us. I think the rest of the DC films (we'll see on Suicide Squad) are going to be much lighter in tone and less artistically stylized in order to appeal more to the general audience and to pull in more cash. But for now we have these two gems that I have little doubt will age like wine and will be discussed and dissected for years to come. I really can't wait for the director's cut.
>>81354821
of course it was necessary. it's part of the bloody subtext which makes it necessary by virtue alone.
if they want a brainless, action/comedy film Civil War comes out in a couple months.
>>81354868
Please go back to /tv/, or actually try to read a comic.
>>81354908
>Please go back to /tv/, or actually try to read a comic.
No.
>>81354867
>main focus of the movie
>the action
where there's your problem, champ.
>>81354868
I will forever attest that Superman killing Zod is the greatest scene in any comic book movie for the amount of emotion and tension jammed into thirty or forty seconds.
Not to mention it was the most surprising thing I've ever seen in a theatre. Pure impact.
>>81354867
>I felt it dragged down the movie, it wasn't well written enough to really feel like it belonged, and it distracted from what was clearly the main focus of the movie, the action.
I completely disagree. The action was there because this is a capeflick and the movie need it catharsis so all the themes in the movie are turned physical and punched away, but i still found the themes well done.
>>81354928
Are you honestly trying to imply that Snyder cares about anything other than the action?
>>81354908
What are you even saying? Pulling the nerd card is really low. Care to elaborate?
>>81354976
The movie certainly showed otherwise. There are very few fights in the movies, they're all very short and they all serve either thematically or emotionally.
If Snyder only cared about the action the movie would be nothing but non-stop action.
>>81354989
I don't find Snyder's films to be at all faithful to real DC comics, sure, they might be similar to some elseworlds story, but to the actual comics themselves, they seem to represent the exact opposite. They're more something I'd expect from early 2000s Marvel.
>>81354976
obviously you dolt. you were just complaining about him bogging the movie down with philosophical themes about gods, myths, literature, and their manifestations in modern pop culture.
>>81355044
That's a good point, thanks for bringing it up.
>>81355035
Terrio wrote a political thriller, and Snyder's directing style didn't fit with it
>>81355038
>I don't find Snyder's films to be at all faithful to real DC comics
What real DC's comics? The ones from the 1938-1940 period? The ones from the 1951-1960 period? The ones from the 1970-1986 period? The ones from the 1986-1994 period? The ones from the 1994-2006 period? The ones from the 2006-2011 period? The ones from the Imaginary Tales or Elseworlds? The All-Stars? The Earth Ones? Which ones?
It's really fucking weird to see a DC fan talking about the "real" DC comics when the company biggest asset is the idea of a multiverse of stories and interpretations.
>>81355099
You can tell where Terrio's script ends and Goyer/Snyder's shit begins. It's when the bomb goes off at the senate hearing.
>>81355099
I disagree. Snyder's visual style helped the script in regards to the mythical and fantastical feel the story was trying for.
>>81354928
Snyder is an action director through and through. He turned Watchmen of all things into an action movie somehow. BvS doesn't work because he was handed a political thriller script and he couldn't say no or he would lose his lead actor
>>81351817
This is how little you fucks pay attention. They said it early on.
>>81355214
The movie is a lot more than a political thriller. It's much more a modernized mythical about power, morality and divinity/humanity.
>>81355214
>He turned Watchmen of all things into an action movie somehow.
Not really. He lengthened a couple action scenes, but that movie is still very dialogue heavy.
>>81355161
Yep, all of those
BvS is so disconnected from the comics beyond names and some superficial panel recreations (where have we seen that before with Snyder), the mind boggles
>>81355099
I saw zero problems with the directing. Quite the contrary.
I also saw a very unconventional and experimental editing style. This seems to be causing problems for some people.
I work in a comic shop. Almost everybody is liking this movie. The worst I've heard is "it was okay" or one guy who was really mad at it because "there was too much Wonder Woman and not enough Batman." He was clearly a retard. The best thing about the film is that I have heard more interesting and intelligent conversations about it than anything else in the eight years I've been working there. Topics ranging from action composition to philosophy and everything in between. Everybody has something to say and everybody adds to the conversation. That alone is enough to claim it a massive success for comic book films and film in general.
The most I've ever heard people talk about with cape films before this was how Batman lived at the end of TDKR or which actors would play which Marvel characters.
There's that part where the people are on the roofs of their homes in a katrina style flood, and they're all reaching out a begging for help, and Superman is just floating in the air staring at them, looking very cool and iconic, but also totally not helping them.
I interpret it as a style over substance thing where Snyder doesn't care how the cool visual impacts the narrative, but I suppose you could also see it in an Alan Moore kinda way where you realize Super Heroes are stupid and we shouldn't be invested in this fantasy shit bc it can't help us.
I'd rather be tortured than see this movie again.
Mind bogglingly bad.
>>81355331
What all those? They're all vastly different interpretations of the same characters. Golden Age Batman is very different Silver Age Batman who's a bit different from Bronze Age Batman because they were trying to reconcile the Silver with the Golden, and the three are very different from the Modern Age Batman who's different from the Post-Infinite Crisis Batman who was a schizophrenic call back to everything from before and that's very different from the New Batman that is a very dumbed down version of the Post-Infinite Crisis Batman.
People also ignore that BvS Batman is going through an arc that reflect the thematic struggles of the movie and in the end he's very much like some of the classical versions of the character.
>>81355331
I really don't understand how anyone who has been reading DC for even a couple years could say this. It looks like a comic, feels like a comic, is written like a classic DC man vs myth story, sounds like the comics sound in my head, and sets up future events in a simar way to how DC has been doing it since Crisis.
>>81355473
And somehow BvS was miles away from all those interpretations
>>81355379
>There's that part where the people are on the roofs of their homes in a katrina style flood, and they're all reaching out a begging for help, and Superman is just floating in the air staring at them, looking very cool and iconic, but also totally not helping them.
That scene, in my opinion because fuck discussing author's intent, is about Superman feeling very conflict with the impact he's having on people because of the way that people on the rooftop called for by painting his symbol like a goddamn sigil. The scene shows Superman almost like a divinity with people treating him as an angel and you can see that Superman is not please by that.
But like i said that is just my opinion.
>>81355331
I think you have this movie mistaken with the MCU.
>>81355498
even Batman comics generally have color
>>81355379
Did you really not realize that scene was Superman struggling with his role as humanity's saviour? He clearly saved the people after, that was fucking obvious, we don't need to see that. What we saw was a man who grew up on a farm in Kansas feeling conflicted about basically being a God.
>>81355473
Dead on with the point about Batman.
>>81355538
I disagree. We're shown a Batman who's old, lost people that he loved and see an unchanged Gotham. He lost faith in himself and the world. You can very much see that this Batman was someone who was like the classical Batman but that has been beaten by the circunstancies. So he's lashing out.
But then by the end of the movie he's redeemed and his no-kill rule is back. He's more hopeful again.
>>81355538
I hate to break it to you, but his is by far the most comic accurate Batman ever put in a movie.
>>81353747
It's not a fucking David Lynch film, you twit
>>81353865
Marvel isn't the only company that has released comic book movies. For instance, Dredd, The Hellboy series, History of Violence, and Sin City. Each of those is a better, more capable film than BvS, without falling into the usual Marvel cliches.
>>81355547
>>81355617
Ah you know what, that's me fighting the plot, bc I wanted the story to be about something other than what it was, and kind of ignored the obvious. Thanks for the explanation!
>>81351517
I'm surprised that no one has criticized that whensupermen dies and they're bringing his body down from the rubblethey replicated the decent from the cross. They even wrapped around his body with his cape and they had this angle. I wish I had a screenshot of it. That was the first time that I ever face palmed in a movie theater.
>>81354519
Please, Morrison makes esoteric allusions, reference to decades of comics history, and has a deep understanding of and affection for the characters. Don't compare this shallow blockbuster bullshit to his work.
>>81356100
Hey, man. I wanted a more uplifting story too, but i get what they were going for. Superman struggling with the world either idolizing him or vilifying him, and the Lex Luthor cunt spreading negativity like a cancer putting the whole world against Superman.
Luthor in this movie was basically Glorious Godfrey. Maybe that would've worked better instead of Lex, now thinking about it.
>>81356138
Snyder did the same shit, but instead of referencing decades of comic history he did with past movies.
>>81356195
>]
You know, I'm not even that much of a Morrison fan, but the guy is leagues beyond Snyder in terms of storytelling ability, understanding of the source material, and ability to elicit emotion from his audience. All Star Superman is everything people love about the character distilled into one comic. MoS and BvS don't even understand the character.
>>81356328
You're comparing two entirely different things. All-Star Superman was a love letter to Silver Age Superman. MoS and BvS isn't trying to do that. The movies are about Superman struggling to find his place in nowadays world. It's a new take on the character.
I don't see what so wrong about Henry's Superman other than the fact that he's inserted in a world full of cynicism where his every action has enormous weight and are magnified then times over because everybody is desiring for him to fail and looking all to twist everything he does. To me he's still the classical Superman. He's just inside a malevolent world. But the actual character is still great.
>>81351651
Well, yes, there are many ways to establish a scene in a movie.
I would've loved it if Snyder used any of them at somw point.
>>81356484
I disagree, they're simply two very different interpretations of the character. One inspires those around him and has genuine compassion for people, the other lets a malevolent world bring him down. Superman's whole schtick is being able rise above the problems in the world and find a solution, while still holding onto his humanity and sense of hope. You take that away and it isn't even the same character.
>>81357396
>Superman's whole schtick is being able rise above the problems in the world and find a solution, while still holding onto his humanity and sense of hope. You take that away and it isn't even the same character.
That happens in BvS.
>>81351517
>the sombrero
>>81354006
The movie flowed like a very dreamlike way and that fits since we're in such a crazy comic world. Zack tried something wonderful here and it really clicked with me. But it's not Marvel so it's bad.
>>81353578
I hate the idea of Gotham and Metropolis being that close to eachother in the old comics. I don't give a fuck if they are in the nu ones.
>>81354037
No one else who could have killed Doomsday was close enough to the spear, dummy
