>Captain America
>Daredevil
>Nightcrawler
>Gambit
>every single latino superhero
Why is Roman Catholicism the most popular religion among Marvel superheroes after Judaism /co/?
>>81294455
Their ethnicities where associated with the religion.
Captain America isn't Catholic.
>>81294455
Cap decends from irish stock, mostly catholic country.
Nightcrawlers german, raised catholic.
Daredevil wasn't originally but it made good reading since he was themed on the devil but was a religious man really. It's kinda like batman going bat-themed to scare villains. Matts catholic so the devils coming for you idea means a lot to him.
>>81294455
Catholicism is the only interesting christian religion the others are either
Meh, gods cool be a good person and your cool too
or
GOD WILL STRIKE THEE DOWN WITH FIERY VENGENCE unless you send me 9.95
>>81294455
There are plenty of Jew characters too.
>>81294455
Probably because catholism is the most recognizable christian religion also it's easy as fuck to write since it's probably the most laid back religion western religions, whereas with many protestant brands of christianism you have different set of rules for pretty much everything depending on the cult of your chosing
>>81294455
european ancestry/ background
>cap=Irish immigrant parents
>daredevil=irish ancestry
>nightcrawler=german (catholicism is easier to write than lutheranism, probably)
>gambit=french ancestry
>latino speaks for itself
>>81298160
South Germany is all Catholic.
>>81298207
true, i never knew where exactly he was from until i just looked it up
>>81294455
Cap isn't catholic
there isnt many but most of thier stuff is set in NY theres loads of jews and christfags there
>>81298346
he was raised by irish so it's 99.999% probable that he is Catholic, althought with all the shit that Marvel's heroes have seen I can't fathom why would anyone still believe in the traditional sense of god, from a realistic standpoint if they were still believers they would probably be pantheists or something like that
It's more aesthethic than protestantism and the concept of guilt goes hand in hand with the idea of the hero/villain
Frank was gonna be a Catholic priest before going to 'Nam
(Most) cathloics are (usually) okay with being portrayed fictionally. A lot of christian stuff in the 60s and 70s was seen as a risk to publish because some people'd get pissed at fiction stories trivializing god.
More pertinently, Marvel's offices were also in new york, where you had big cathloic and jewish neighborhoods. It was exotic enough to stand out to the reader but local enough that you felt safe using it.
>>81298446
>>81298346
cap said his parents were irish immigrants, being from ireland i can guarantee the chances of his parents being both immigrants and non-catholic are practically impossible, and if they are it is terribly shitty writing
>>81298446
Hasn't Spider-Man met God at one point? And the Fantastic Four too, when they went to Heaven to get back the Thing, God was Jack Kirby or something.
>>81294455
Cap in the MCU is protestant according to his ID tags.
>>81298550
>Irish
>Protestant
someone's getting bombed
>>81298550
Cap in the Cancerverse worships the Many-Angled Ones, what's your point?
Because Catholic Guilt makes for one hell of a storytelling device.
>>81298539
Kirby is The One Above All in the Marvel universe. Whenever you see that term get mentioned it's honoring his legacy on everything in Marvel.
>>81298928
TOAA was a hobo when Spider-man met him
>>81294493
He is, Irish senpai
>>81298550
Really? That's serious failure on their part.
>>81298473
>and the concept of guilt goes hand in hand with the idea of the hero/villain
what about the concept o forgiving and giving the other cheek?
>>81298530
Well they could be from Northern Ireland.
This is actually a good post about MCU Cap's religion:
https://historicallyaccuratesteve.tumblr.com/post/92559081749/protestant-steve-rogers-v-catholic-steve-rogers
Although yeah, I think it was just the prop team being lazy. He should be Catholic.
>>81297952
Not to mention the fundamentalists in the Bible Belt tend to be on a hair trigger temper when it comes to people writing about them.
I wonder if there are any Mormon superheroes.
>>81298550
Meh the movie props and background info always has some type of error (like Bucky's birthday or his family info) and if the characters don't outright say anything it shouldn't be considered canon.
Steve believes in the Christian God in tge MCU and that's all we know.
>>81298445
Jews, Catholics and Muslims are the three biggest religious groups in NYC. Surprisingly they all get along rather well.
>>81299148
northern irish immigrants would still be catholic, it isn't anywhere near a protestant majority up there, not only that, protestants could actually get jobs, it was much harder for a catholic
>>81299386
because they all have to deal with the MTA and that bonds people more than any religion
>>81298599
"Catholic Guilt" is just having a sense of personal responsibility. Beats the hell out of "white guilt".
All I kniw us that Stan Lee avoided mentioning certain character's religion in order to keep them more open and relatable to his audiences (and also because Stan Lee is agnostic) there were exceptions like Ben Grimm but that character had some stuff that was based on Jack Kirby, Cap most likely was one of them especially since his Irish heritage wasn't added until later and it was either Nicieza or DeMatteis who came up with it (I don't remember).
In the MCU we don't have any indication of Steve being Irish and his childhood is slightly different from the comic since he grew up in Brooklyn instead of the Lower Eastside and he had Bucky instead of Arnie, his father died serving during WWI and Steve never got to meet him instead of watching him beat his mother and drink himself to death.
Comic Steve moght have been raised Catholic but his religion or belief system never comes up in the comics, like the only exception is when he's discussing with Bernie Rosenthal how their future children were going to celebrate christmas and hannukah and that Bernie's parents weren't going to be happy about her marrying a goyim, so at least we know Steve isn't Jewish in the comics.
He could have been Protestant in the MCU, all we know is that he believes in God but other than thay we don't have any info.
As for Matt Murdock, Frank Miller was the one who made him Catholic because he saw story potential there, and it worked.
>>81299671
>personal responsibility
this meme again
>>81299671
In the Catholoc religion every little shit you do or think about is sinful and the Church always reminds you that you're a sinner and you need to repent to be forgiven but they also remind you that you most likely will sin again anyway so you'll have to confess for that.
It makes everyone feel like shit which is were Catholic guilt comes from, hell catholic wealthy people who are about to die tend to confess and will their shit to the Church just to be forgiven and they have been doing this since forever it's also in part how churches and the Vatican mantain themselves.
>>81299712
>Frank Miller was the one who made him Catholic because he saw story potential there, and it worked.
He also got Matt's ex girlfriend hooked on smack and killed Electra.
>>81299914
I don't really see how that's relevant to his decision to make Matt Catholic
and he created Elektra, you nonce
>>81299764
I don't care what your guidance councilor said, anon, certain things are just your fault.
>>81299898
>In the Catholoc religion every little shit you do or think about is sinful and the Church always reminds you that you're a sinner and you need to repent to be forgiven but they also remind you that you most likely will sin again anyway so you'll have to confess for that.
And? People should be more careful about their thoughts and deeds. You just sould like your mad because Catholic morality gets in the way of your p[personal desires.
If you entertain the idea of causing harm to someone, that's a sin, and you should repent of it and try to do better. Compare that to certain fashionable liberal ideals. if you're white, there's nothing you can do about it, nothing you dan do to try and better yourself, you're just a FUCKING WHITE MALE, and need to constantly apologize for things you never did.
>It makes everyone feel like shit which is were Catholic guilt comes from
Then why are Catholics statistically happier than the general population? Hell, they have better sex too.
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/07/17/devout-catholics-have-better-sex
>hell catholic wealthy people who are about to die tend to confess and will their shit to the Church just to be forgiven and they have been doing this since forever it's also in part how churches and the Vatican mantain themselves.
Everyone confesses on their death bed, it's a great comfort to people. The Vatican uses that money to open schools and hospitals worldwide.
>>81297178
clearly you have never read Mormonism's version of the after life
>>81294455
Al does it better than Matt
>>81300470
>Spawn
>doing anything better
Todd Macfarlane is a dumb Canadian who abuse religious symbolism worse than Anno.
>>81297178
>Catholicism is the only interesting christian religion
it's pretty damn boring
It's history is interesting but as a faith it's a pure snooze fest
>>81300519
Because you're used to the watered-down, Vatican II version.
>>81300407
> The Vatican uses that money to open schools and hospitals worldwide.
No, it helps to relocate pedophiles worldwide.
>>81300519
Nah, bro, nah.
Why is there religion still in the marvel universe? Isn't their ultimate being The One Above All?
>>81298486
>father, I have sinned
>BANG
>>81300470
>>81300501
This just hit me:
Batman vs Superman would have been a better Spawn movie.
>>81300609
Rumors say he had a problem with forgiveness.
>>81300566
And that's what the west has anon hence it's boring
>>81300595
That hardily has anything to relate to that faith abroad.
>>81294455
Something, something, New York City, something...
http://www.gothamgazette.com/index.php/demographics/3881-a-religious-city
>>81300597
I wonder if any superheroes get into arguments over whose god is the one above all and whose is just another alien.
>>81300705
Find a Latin Mass church, or one of the Eastern Rites.
Moon Knight's costume is so tight, you can tell he's circumcised.
>>81300747
Well its not Odin or Zeus.
>>81300609
I want to see Father Castle napalming some poor schmuck for eating meat on Friday.
>>81294455
Because Roman Catholicism is a pretty popular religion in the western world. I wager some posting in this thread are as such and relate better to said heroes
You might as well ask why the majority of heroes are white and have girl drama.
>>81300407
you sound like someone who's only read about Catholicism and wasn't raised Catholic
Cathedrals are more dramatic. Not much you can do with a final showdown in the Christian Science Reading Room.
>>81300860
I'm Polish. Can't get more Catholic than that.
>>81300949
the Italians would probably take issue there
>>81298325
Mind you, Kurt was raised by a witch in a traveling circus, so him having a Catholic OR Lutheran education is a bit weird anyway.
>>81300993
We'll just send them more Syrians.
>>81300860
And you sound like a teenage fedora with a superficial knowledge of religion.
>>81301048
tell that to the 12 years of Catholic school
>>81301123
So you're a typical atheist who decided to stop believing in high school because "fuck rules, man!"
>>81301286
I still consider myself a believer, but I don't go to church
>>81298550
>Son of Irishmen
>Protestant
how can someone fuck a background that much
>>81301327
i don't believe and still go to church
>>81301327
Are you an American? You seem to but an undue importance on your own self-esteem like most Americans do.
>>81298599
"Catholic guilt" is a stupid term coined by atheists, no catholic I've met (and I've met alot since I'm catholic) has ever had a sense of catholic guilt, that shit is just being responsible for our actions and suffering the consequences and putting yourself in the hands of god throught the experience... atleast that's what the church teaches every sunday
>>81301471
It's a term used mostly by lapsed Catholics to justify themselves. they don't like the idea of living by a moral code, so they pretend everyone else has a guilt complex.
>>81299898
that's mostly how we did it a hundred years ago, and its more focused on the forgiveness angle than the suffer and repent angle these days.
i.e. "Confess your sins to get them off of your back. You'll fuck up again, you're human, so the door's always open."
Obviously there are some old holdouts like any religion, including a crazy fucking sect of crazies who think that any pope since the 60s has been an antipope and that they're the only true Catholics.
>>81300891
Underrated post.
>>81300589
It honestly disgusts me that we haven't managed to cut out that blight properly despite knowing about its continued practice for decades now. Fuckers should be excommunicated.
>>81301752
>"Confess your sins to get them off of your back. You'll fuck up again, you're human, so the door's always open."
You know some of the best help I've gotten came from priests in confessional. Sometimes you can't afford a shrink and you need someone to talk to.
>>81300860
>>81300407
I'm Catholic, raised Catholic and I can vouch for what the anon said, also pretty much no one cares about how everything is sin, we know and you just go to the priest and say "forgive me father I have sinned" and voila and even then most people just go to the priest when they have really fucked up and use confession more like psychological therapy
No catholic I've met feels bad because "everything is sin" if anything catholic morality is what makes us not go up blowing abortion clinics or shooting up schools
>>81301834
Catholicism: At least we're not Protestants
>>81301471
>"white guilt" is a stupid term coined by blacks, no white I've met (and I've met alot since I'm white) has ever had a sense of white guilt, that shit is just being responsible for our actions and suffering the consequences and putting yourself in the hands of fate through the experience... atleast that's what the schools teach every day
You're welcome,
Sincerely
Your Friends in Satan
>>81300431
What's the telestial kingdom??
I am genuinely interested
>>81294455
How is Judaism the most popular religion among Marvel superheroes? I thought it was just Kitty and Thing.
>>81301890
white guilt is also fucking stupid since being white is something you can change, no one should feel guilty for being white, black, brown, chink or alien
>>81300501
>current year
>possible for atheists to abuse religion in any way, shape, or form
>>81301824
Yeah, a priest who knows what he's doing is a blessing. A lot of them are trained councilors I think?
The Church finally embracing modernizing again after a couple popes's worth of letting the Cardinal's college run amuck's really helped, I think, as far as getting Catholics trusting their parish priest again.
>>81301890
>No Laveyan Satanist superhero.
>>81301747
exactly, I don't know why living by a moral code (which by the way catholic morality is pretty much the most relaxed religious moral teaching in the western world) is so difficult for people
>>81301917
He's going to say that Superman's a Jew even though he's not, and Batman's a Jew because money, and Wonder Woman is a Jew because Gal Gadot
Congrats on taking the bait
>>81301752
>that's mostly how we did it a hundred years ago
Actually, it wasn't even true then. The "Catholic Guilt" stereotype started with the Protestant Reformation in an attempt to discredit the Priests.
>>81301890
Except there's a fundamental difference between doing something wrong and feeling bad because it violates your moral code and just feeling bad because you're a white cismale.
>>81301955
most priest have training in counceling, I think it's part of their seminar studies along with philosophy
>>81294455
>after Judaism
Wat? I can't think of a single religious Jewish character in Marvel. Meanwhile, you've mentioned a bunch of religious Catholics, and still forget the Punisher.
>>81301890
You know Satan you were way more interesting when you did evil instead of just having sex and writing essays on how to find your true self in the denial of God.
I'm just saying dude maybe put a little spice back into this eternal war for humanity's soul.
Hugs and kisses,
T.O.T.H.A.C.
>>81301956
>His name is...
>Whatever, Man
>>81302033
You know this is true. I can't think of a single practicing Jewish superhero.
Ethnically Jewish yes, religiously Jewish, not really.
>>81302046
>The Otherkin That Have A Cunt
>>81299610
This, hatred of New York City brings New Yorkers together.
>>81302083
I'm pretty sure Ben Grimm is practicing
>>81302117
fuck me i laughed.
>>81302083
I remember a solo Kitty story by Claremont where she mourns her father "jewishly"
>>81299712
>In the MCU we don't have any indication of Steve being Irish and his childhood is slightly different from the comic since he grew up in Brooklyn instead of the Lower Eastside
Wasn't Cap from Brooklyn in the comics, too?
>Bernie's parents weren't going to be happy about her marrying a goyim
Singular is "goy", "goyim" is plural.
>>81302083
Meanwhile, one of the very few Jewish characters calls himself "Wiccan", and another has an Egyptian god is his head.
>>81298572
>>81301361
Maybe they were from Northern Ireland?
>>81301471
I've been raised by Irish immigrants and surrounded by Irish people all my life. Catholic guilt is a real thing. The repression brought on by the Irish-Catholic fate is culturally deep rooted as fuck.
>>81302379
immigrants from Northern Ireland are still pretty likely to be Catholic since it really sucked being Catholic in Northern Ireland
>>81302415
>The Irish are sad
Surprise, surprise.
>repression
The opposite of indulgence is not repression, anon. Just because you don't give into ever whim doesn't mean you're repressed. This may be difficult to understand, but not everyone who chooses not to be fisted by a male hooker in a Nightwing costume does so because they are horribly repressed. That's a modern, Freudian idea.
>>81302427
My grandparents came over in the 1950s from County Kerry to find work. Maybe Steve's parents came over from Tyrone for similar reasons? I don't know.
>>81300609
there was the axe murderer from one of the pre-max runs by Ennis
>>81302501
That's an extreme analogy there, anon. Have you seen the movie Brooklyn that just came out? It characterizes the Irish Catholic guilt pretty strongly. It's really hard to explain, but it's the anguish and guilt that comes from everything. I'm a big fan of Daredevil because it captures of the essence of that perfectly.
Cap's protestant isn't he? but i guess Irish makes Catholic likely
I want a Matt and Kurt team up really bad.
>>81302572
This is true. Daredevil captures Catholic guilt in the same way that Spider-Man embodies Jewish guilt.
>>81302572
>It's true
>because I saw it in a movie
The Irish were much livlier when they were Catholic. Now that they're an apostate nation, they're a bunch of self-pitying sad sacks.
>>81302714
>Responsibility is now guilt
That's what's wrong with people these days.
>>81302572
Brooklyn was more about the hardships of being an immigrant in a new country. The church was shown to be a positive, encouraging force in the main character's life.
>>81302729
No, I was just using it as an example. A media representation of something I was referencing. Irish Catholic guilt isn't the main theme or driving force of the film, but it is prevalent. Again, having been raised by Irish Catholic immigrants and surrounded by Irish people all my life, it's something I've seen from personal experience
>>81302596
That would be cash.
>>81302889
Can you give me a practical example? This all sounds too anecdotal.
>>81302889
It seems to have more to do with being irish than being catholic. I've never heard the Mexicans or the Polacks talk about "Catholic Guilt". From what I can tell it's a stereotype cooked up by American liberals.
>>81302083
Ragman is the first one that comes to mind, but god knows where he is nowadays
>>81303202
living with Clayface as of the end of Batwoman
so maybe he shows up in Tec
>>81302991
>>81303086
That's totally possible, though I'm not too familiar with people experiencing a similar feeling, though I don't know many folks from that part of the country. I'm afraid all I have is anecdotal evidence from people I know and people they know. I don't have any numbers, or figures because I never really did much research into it.
>>81303668
from Northern Ireland that is**
>>81294455
Because Marvel is New York mostly, and most of New York is traditionally Catholics and Jews.
Plus all of the original writers were New York Jews and Catholics. The man in charge when most of the A-list heroes were created was a Jew married to a Catholic in charge of Jewish and Catholic writers and artists.
>>81302889
well maybe it's different for Irishmen, here in Mexico catholic guilt as a concept isn't even a thing and Mexico is the Catholic capital of America
I want to see an Amish superhero in try and fight crime in a small Pennsylvania community where everybody knows his name.
>Oh, there goes Elias in his pajamas again.
>>81304825
I feel like the Amish would spell it pyjamas
>>81301914
its heaven but kinda shitty and you know you could have gone to like four different better heavens for all eternity
>>81296512
>. It's kinda like batman going bat-themed to scare villains
Bruce family was catholic and gotham is mostly a catholic city
>>81294455
Punisher is catholic too
>>81294455
Catholicism has lots of visual flare as well as the rights and rituals like confession and the rosary.
Protestant denominations made a very deliberate choice to shed all the interesting parts of Christianity
>>81300431
>tfw u have this idea for a Mormon cape comic about a school bus driver who moonlights as a hero called Deseret
>>81306978
That's not exactly right.
There are also alternatives to both of these. Lot of mystic Christian sects out there who aren't Catholic.
>>81307023
and then probably the mormons will track you down and burn your house... those fuckers are crazy man
>>81307383
>the Mormons will paint your house and fix your garden
Fixed that for you.
>>81306978
>Protestant denominations made a very deliberate choice to shed all the interesting parts of Christianity
You mean a bunch of tacked-on bullshit that wasn't in the Bible
>>81307414
probably, but I have only had bad experiences with mormons tho, they can be annoying as fuck with their "mission" to evangelize people even when you tell them that you don't want anything to do with their mumbo jumbo a hundred times in a row
>>81307430
You mean the books of the Bible you took out because they were inconvenient for you?
>>81307079
It would be extremely interesting to see a Pentecostal comic book character.
But really, the main thing is that liberals from New York see Protestants as:
>boring
>hypocrites
>fundies
>>81307515
You'd better not mean the Apocrypha.
>>81307079
the problem I see with protestants is that every cult and sect chooses what parts of the christian dogma to follow and throw others away just because the founder of the cult didn't like them, the only protestant cults that I truly respect are the classic ones like Anglicanism and Lutheranism, other church I like is the Eastern Orthodox (although some of the worship rituals seem a lil strange to me but that's because I'm catholic)
>>81307559
or WASPs, and no one likes them
>>81296512
>Cap decends from irish stock, mostly catholic country.
There are a fair number of Irish Protestants who will get really pissy if you make that generalization. If he's not Catholic, then Presbyterian or Anglican is a good bet.
>>81302760
Catholic guilt is totally a real thing though.
Source: I am a cradle Catholic who is still practicing.That's kind of why Confession is a sacrament in the first place
>>81307559
> Apocrypha
That's just what you protties call them. We just call them "scripture".
>>81307583
>respecting Anglicanism
>only created because Henry VIII wanted to get divorced
>>81307641
It's just guilt for doing something wrong. You don't walk around second-guessing every thought or deed like it's fucking Angela's Ashes.
>>81307655
What's weird is that Henry was one of the first people to denounce Martin Luther as a heretic.
>>81307655
well yeah but they are not crazy fuckers like the jehova's witnesses and the thousands of sects that exist nowadays
>>81307615
>There are a fair number of Irish Protestants
And I believe Cap is one of them
>>81307733
He did that for the same reason he formed the Anglican Church: it was politically expedient.
>>81307733
Henry VIII was a huge supporter of the Church before he decided that getting a male heir was more important than actually staying in communion with Rome.
>>81307744
Yeah, that was my assumption too.
>>81307733
from what I know Anglicanism didn't deviated that much from the catholic church, but I can be wrong
>>81307778
Henry VIII actually had an interest in Theology and other academic subjects, so he wrote a thorough rebuttal the Martin Luther from a theological perspective. He wouldn't have done that if it was just political. Granted, his arrogance eventually got the better of him.
>>81301943
>Spawn
>Current year
>>81307646
>not having standards for what gets put in the Bible
wew
>Apostolic Origin – attributed to and based on the preaching/teaching of the first-generation apostles (or their close companions).
>Universal Acceptance – acknowledged by all major Christian communities in the ancient world (by the end of the fourth century).
>Liturgical Use – read publicly when early Christian communities gathered for the Lord's Supper (their weekly worship services).
>Consistent Message – containing a theological outlook similar or complementary to other accepted Christian writings.
>>81307864
Huh, I didn't realize that. But then, everyone and their mother was doing that to Luther.
>>81307735
The Anglican and Episcopalian churches (Presbyterians too to some extent) are going through a crisis right now because the liberal wings of their leadership of Bishops is basically making them irrelevant and meaningless with how fluid and "modern" their theology has become, so people are leaving because there's no real reason or benefit to identifying with that faith rather than just being one of those "spiritual but not religious" people.
And on the other hand, in response you have more conservative leaders seriously considering abandoning ship to return to communion with Rome. Pope Benedict XVI even made a special dispensation for some special cases of such to expedite the process.
>>81307861
Not at first. When you don't have the Magisterium and papal leadership to guide theological matters and rulings through a heuristic of continuity, then things are going to shift much more quickly over time in response to modernity and other social changes.
>>81307973
>wew
All of which the Catholic Church used when compiling the Bible in the first place. Luther and other Protestant scholars wanted to drop some of those books in accordance with a misinterpretation of a Rabbinical heuristic that only accepted books that had original copies in Aramaic or Hebrew.
>>81307655
The Church of England was still pretty much Catholic just excommunicated under Henry, It only becomes (extremely) Protestent under Edward VI, and then Elizabeth comes up with the current CofE which is a weird mix of Protestant or Anglo-Catholic depending on which church you go to.
>>81306978
Yeah, Catholicism has a lot of distinct fire and brimstone imagery, because a lot of renaissance art is directly linked with Catholicism.
>>81307430
Well, I mean, the Catholic Church totally tacked on a bunch of shit just because of its unchecked power in Europe.
>>81308071
>which is a weird mix of Protestant or Anglo-Catholic depending on which church you go to
By the time of the 17th century, you had "high church" Anglicanism which was VERY Catholic in practice and belief, and "low church" which was more un-ornamented and Protestant.
>>81308084
>>81308084
You do realize that when you say "fire and brimstone", people think of First Great Awakening Protestant ministers and speeches. Think "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God".
>>81307646
>>81307973
kids, kids, both your Abrahamic religions are bat shit crazy.
>>81307690
yeah, but it's Catholicism. Everything is fucking wrong.
>>81308187
The heathens sure are uppity today.
>>81308187
It's when people start thinking that they're boring that we're REALLY in trouble.
>>81308127
>unchecked
Nigga, there had been conflict over church vs. secular power since Constantine (which is what happens when the Pope and the king both technically represent God in different capacities). If anything, the Church was necessary for keeping the power of the state in check. Government absolutism and centralism didn't really happen until the Enlightenment.
>>81308133
True I meant more that Elizabethan religious settlement was created to be as inoffensive and please as many people as possible, while still keeping supremacy and ending religious conflict. That's why you have 2 vastly differing belief systems in a national church, and across the whole Anglican communion as well.
>>81308226
Me calling you a faggot isn't.
You faggot.
>>81307973
Thinking you can pick and choose the word of God.
We members of the Westboro Baptist Church are the only ones who get it right.
>>81308226
>Everything is fucking wrong.
Actually no. Catholicism is notably very positive towards physical states of beings, avenues of knowledge and epistemology, the purpose of sex and procreation, social concern and service, and supporting multiple practices of faith, cultural observance, and vocations.
Catholicism is a "both/and" religion when it comes to many major tenets of faith.
Faith AND Works
Body AND Soul
Heaven AND Earth
Justice AND Mercy
>>81308245
You've got to keep in mind though that by the point of at least the Reformation the Church was its own political power as well.
Complete with maintaining armies and shit.In reality though this is a really fun thread. I've never discussed with practicing Catholics, I've only met lapsed.
>>81308360
E. Michael Jones talks about this in a few of his books. You're right, the Reformation caught on because greedy German nobels saw it as an excuse to rob churches and monasteries and set up their own more directly under their control.
>>81308245
>Nigga, there had been conflict over church vs. secular power since Constantine
Catholic here, that's flat out wrong. Just read most things written by Augustine who focused a lot on the Catholic Church in relation to the Roman Empire. In fact there were many conflicts for centuries after the fall of the Roman Empire between governmental sovereignty and Church authority. The Church owned property, raised armies, leveraged taxes and alliances, and operated as its own government that was MUCH more expansive and influential than the Vatican today. That's inevitably going to brush against other powers in the wrong way and lead to conflicts.
>>81308307
shitty bait 1/10
>>81308332
so I'm curious (asking you and all Catholics in the thread): what do you think of Pope Francis and his more progressive practices?
>>81308405
This is especially apparent in German states where you still had fractured kingdoms and other powers that picked sides in the conflict.
It was the Diet of Worms I believe that made it so that each individual sovereign could decide whether their rule would be aligned with Protestants or Catholics (and even then Calvinists and other smaller branches that split at the same time still got fucked over).
>>81308438
Pope Francis? More like DOPE Francis
>>81308277
triggered
>>81308332
Very positive unless:
you are a woman
a gay
a colored person
of a different denomination
>>81308438
>so I'm curious (asking you and all Catholics in the thread): what do you think of Pope Francis and his more progressive practices?
He's the Pope, I have no doubt that he has a deep love of God, and concern for his flock at the heart of his statements and writings, and I feel that a lot of media outlets have a tendency to latch onto soundbites without understanding the theological context of those statements, or ignoring the bits that they don't agree with entirely.
That being said I really fucking wish he'd stop giving off-the-cuff interviews on planes.
>>81308491
How can you question the word of God? The Pope is the direct conduit to the high father. What a fucking sinner you are. You better cross your rosaries.
>>81308560
Dope the adjective, not the noun
>>81308520
>you are a woman
How many female saints are there?
>a gay
There are plenty of gay Catholics who don't buy into identity politics.
>a colored person
The biggest growth in the Church right now is in Africa and Asia.
>>81308438
I like the Pope, I might not agree with some of his statements and uber liberal ideology but he is jesuit so being liberal practically is part of his order description, but all in all he seems like he cares about the church and is trying to bring more people into the flock after many were alienated by the media portrayal of Benedict XVI
Catholicism ponders sins, which fits with superheroes.
Jews are about close knit community. Christinanity is watered down to nothing. Martial artists are almost all some form of Buddhism. Islam doesn't work. Everything else paints the character tribal or honor coded.
>>81294455
New York City
>>81308245
Yes, because Government absolutism was much worse than Church absolutism.
>>81308600
>How many female saints are there?
Fuck that, how many female DOCTORS OF THE CHURCH are there?
>>81308472
I'm pretty sure that was actually the Shmalkaldic League when that happened.
>Christinanity is watered down to nothing.
In your dreams
>>81308418
>In fact there were many conflicts for centuries after the fall of the Roman Empire between governmental sovereignty and Church authority.
That's what I said. The Church was a necessary buffer on the total control of the state.
>The Church owned property, raised armies, leveraged taxes and alliances, and operated as its own government that was MUCH more expansive and influential than the Vatican today
As it should be. The fact that the Church is so weak now is part of the reason the West is dying.
>>81308640
>I'm pretty sure that was actually the Shmalkaldic League when that happened.
Might be, I haven't touched Reformation-era history since my sophomore year of college.
>>81308438
>what do you think of Pope Francis and his more progressive practices
people think he's actually changing something in the liturgy and the doctrine of the church, it's just the tone of his speeches that's more leftist (but not really), it's not even something new, Paul VI was Che Guevara in comparison, it's just that we come from two popes which while in their youth were more "progressive", they actually reverted a lot from Vatican II.
>>81308602
"media portrayal" Nevermind that he was a fucking gargoyle.
>>81308520
>a colored person
>when a sizable percentage of the church is from Latin America and it's currently growing strong in Africa
What the fuck are you smoking.
>>81308634
how many female priests are there?
>>81308675
Paul VI is the only cool pope, period.
>>81308618
It objectively is. The church represents and provides a higher moral order maintained by centuries of tradition. State absolutism has lead to greater tyranny.
>>81308688
He may look like a Sith Lord, but his actual writings and encyclicals have a lot of nuance and more mercy and social concern than what people were willing to look for.
In fact he also did a lot to try and correct some of JPII's mistakes in how corruption (especially in regards to the various sexual abuse scandals) was handled within Church hierarchy.
>>81308731
Women and men are fundamentally different. Female priests wouldn't work. Fashionable, modern ideas don't change that.
>>81308733
Tell that to Martin Luther mother fucker.
>>81308668
My other home board is /tg/ so there's this one really rad boardgame that's all about this kind of thing, so I've become really familiar with the history
It's called Here I Stand, and it's pretty great.
Has the best chart of all time
>>81308731
>how many female priests are there?
I dunno, how many male nuns are there?
To a Catholic, it's equally as nonsensical. Priestly obligations require one to assume the spirit of Jesus in performing sacraments. Jesus was a dude. Therefore, Priests also need to be dudes in order to assume that duty.
Female positions of leadership within the Church in regards to both religious life and the laity, are just as important in regards to supporting and furthering the purposes of the Church on Earth. In fact, look at any parish around and I guarantee you 80% of the actual positions of leadership (youth ministers, organizers, finances, teachers, etc etc) are performed by women.
>>81308775
Oh yeah dude? Tell that to other sects of Christianity who have female ministers. Maybe if you let your holy men get laid once in a while too, less kids would be fucking scarred. Your religion needs to be dragged out of the middle ages.
>>81308796
You realize protestants were basically terrorists back then? Lutherans went around pillaging monasteries.
>>81308860
>Your religion needs to be dragged out of the middle ages.
Oh please, we've been around for 2000 years through wars, philosophical and political upheavals, the rise and fall of empires and invading barbarians and conquerors. They've beat their swords blunt onto our faith for that entire time and yet here we still are.
>>81308688
If you read his encyclicals you will see that he was a based pope, also he tried to correct the mistakes John Paul did regarding corruption and pedophilia inside the church.
the media was the one that pushed shit like "He was Paul's Inquisidor" or "He was a nazi" shit like that when they had no idea what he was trying to do for the church
>>81308902
Luther was a former monk, and the looting of the monasteries happened without his approval.
>>81308860
>tell that to the other sects of Christianity that you think are objectively wrong
they do
>>81308853
It is obviously just allegorical though, the priest is not really transforming into Jesus and the bread isnt turning into his body, nor is the wine during into his blood. If Transubstantiation were a real fucking thing, you all would be cannibals anyway.
>>81308961
>It is obviously just allegorical though
You don't quite understand how Catholic theology works.
The metaphor is also the literal reality.
Signs and symbols represent the REAL presence of real divinity and truth on Earth.
As above, so below.
>>81308930
Proud martyrs. The fuel of any good christian faith.
>>81308957
This guy is right.
The only ones that allow women's pastors are the ones that couldn't give two shits about what the Bible says anyway.
>>81308860
>Tell that to other sects of Christianity who have female ministers.
You mean the dying liberal protestant denominations which are propped up by aging baby boomers?
> Maybe if you let your holy men get laid once in a while too, less kids would be fucking scarred. Your religion needs to be dragged out of the middle ages.
Funny thing about that, the scandal only happened because some forward-thinking Vatican II types decided it would be a good idea to let homosexuals in the seminaries. And the cover-ups only happened because the bishops listened to the advice of secular psychologists at the time. So maybe the church needs to be more medieval.
>>81302501
You don't need to go to such extremities.
Just thinking that you're masturbating too much because it's a bad thing, is enough as guilt goes. So yeah, feeling guilty for masturbating is being repressed.
It's a religion that teaches its people that the Christ sacrifices himself fo mankind to atone for our sin. Everyone is guilty of Jesus' death.
>>81308999
Oh, so then your religion is one of cannibalism then. Got it.
>>81308853
I dunno, how many male nuns are there?
There are quite a few and they're called monks
It's dramatic nigga, what's cooler
>step in a booth
>superhero:forgive me father for I have sinned
Or in the case of protestants
>rock band plays on stage JESUS LOVES US
>>81309015
I don't see the Catholic Church following Leviticus word for word? Seems like every denomination follows the book sort of liberally.
>>81309018
Glad to know your religion is being propped up on homophobia.
>>81307615
>Irish Protestant
You mean "English Scum"
So I take it we're ready for a Chilean superhero who champions liberation theology
>>81309018
This:
>>81309073
These religions arent dying because of how prominent they are to life in the American midwest and south.
>>81309103
Showing off the golden rule I see.
>>81297178
Was raised lutheran christian but thats like anti catholicism theyre against religious artifacts and the strict rules or some shit
>>81309041
No. And I'm just going to go ahead and post the specifics as to why not instead of typing it up myself to save time.
The main argument relies on the difference between "accidents" of being (physical appearances and things experienced through the physical senses) and "substance" or "essence" of being.
>1. In cannibalism, the person consumed is, generally speaking, killed. Jesus is not killed. We receive him in his resurrected body and we do not affect him in the least.
>2. In cannibalism, only part of the victim is consumed. One does not eat the bones, sinews, etc. In the Eucharist, we consume every bit of the Lord, eyes, hair, blood, bones, etc. But again, I emphasize that we do so under the appearances of bread and wine. This is essentially different than cannibalism, which leads to our next point:
>3. In cannibalism, the accidents of blood and flesh are consumed. One must tear flesh, drink blood, etc. In the Eucharist, we only consume the accidents of bread and wine. This is not cannibalism.
>4. In cannibalism, one only consumes a body, not a person. The person and the soul of the victim would have departed. In the Eucharist, we consume the entire person of Jesus Christ, body, blood, soul and divinity. One cannot separate Christ’s body from his Divine Person. Thus, this is a spiritual communion as well as a physical consuming. We become one with Christ on a mystical level in this sacrament. This is far from cannibalism.
>5. In cannibalism, one only receives temporal nourishment that is fleeting. In the Eucharist, we receive the divine life of God through faith and receiving our Lord well-disposed, i.e. we receive everlasting life (cf. John 6:52-55). This is essentially different than cannibalism.
>6. In cannibalism, once one eats the flesh of the victim, it is gone forever. In the Eucharist, we can consume him every day and, as mentioned in #1, we do not change him one bit. He remains the same.
>>81309118
That would be fucking bananas. Give him Che's face as an insignia.
>>81309089
>I don't see the Catholic Church following Leviticus word for word
>By the death of our Redeemer, the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been abolished; then the Law of Christ together with its mysteries, enactments, institutions, and sacred rites was ratified for the whole world in the blood of Jesus Christ… [O]n the gibbet of His death Jesus made void the Law with its decrees fastened the handwriting of the Old Testament to the Cross, establishing the New Testament in His blood shed for the whole human race.[33]
>>81309047
Nope. Different religious orders, different vows, different ordination rites, and different duties and practices.
>>81309089
the whole point of Jesus was abolishing the old laws and enacting new ones
>>81309228
>>So triggered that he has to break down the definition of cannibalism.
>>Proceeds to get into semantics over whether or not its okay to eat human flesh more or less.
What a pious life, you lead.
>>81309041
If it was actually cannibalism, the priest would just cut off a piece of his arm and feed it to you. Transubstantiation retains to form of the host, but the substance is transformed.
It takes a long time to explain, just read it here.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm
>>81309040
> feeling guilty for masturbating is being repressed.
No, it's being aware of wrong-doing.
>>81309326
anon it's been talked about A LOT in theology
>>81309316
>and enacting new ones
More like re-enforcing the original purpose and design of creation and the original covenant between God and humanity.
There's a reason why the Gospel of John sets up so much of its first chapters purposely echoing the language of creation from Genesis.
>>81309103
So you're allowed to speak the English language, dress like the English, eat the same food as the English, watch the same television as the English and still call yourself Irish, but you can't pray in the same church as the English?
>>81309262
Then why is the old testament part of Catholic Bible? To fill it out a bit? Why did God decide it was the law of the land of man before, but then change his mind? That doesn't seem very omniscient to me.
>>81309326
that whole thing it's actually based on Aristotelian/scholastics metaphysics
>>81309326
>how dare people have detailed arguments to refute a theological issue that's been around since literally the time of Jesus when he was running his fucking ministry on Earth
>>81299123
Protestant concept. Catholics aren't known for taking things laying down.
>>81309316
So God was wrong before?
Sure is a slippery slope.
>>81309347
Then a lot of theologians sure experienced catholic guilt, I guess.
I always wondered how Catholic or religious superheroes can continue to have faith when you have shit like >>81300597 every day.
I guess you don't get in contact with beings like that unless you're a space superhero but there's got to be a point when you fight PLANETKILLER SUPERVILLAIN #72
>>81309371
>Then why is the old testament part of Catholic Bible?
beacuse basically every prophetic figures and even Adam were read as proto-Christ, especially by the church fathers.
>>81309428
yes you're very clever with your gotcha questions
good for you
go have a cookie, I'm sure your mother has some for you
>>81309419
>>81309419
Not very good at turning the other cheek then?
>>81309371
The OT is part of the story of God's revelation, and prophesies and foreshadows the eventual fulfillment of his promises with the coming of Jesus and the new covenant he created with his death and resurrection.
You can't get the full story if you don't know the OT. It's like only reading the last book of a trilogy.
>>81309316
>>81309089
>>81309428
>I don't see the Catholic Church following Leviticus word for word? Seems like every denomination follows the book sort of liberally.
Looks like someone doesn't know about difference between the moral and ceremonial law.
Moral law: a reaffirmation of the law written on our hearts. These were written to show the need for the Messiah.
Ceremonial law: a reaffirmation of the Israelites' special position as God's chosen people. God wanted to keep them separate as a result, and point them ahead to the messiah.
>>81309371
The old laws still have their place because they are part of the prophecies that led up to the Messiah. By comparing them with what Jesus accomplished during his time on earth we're reaffirmed that he's the real deal.
When Jesus fulfilled the role of the Messiah there was no need for the ceremonial laws anymore, since their role was fulfilled.
The moral law has always been around and as such maintains its relevancy
>>81309213
What branch/synod?
>>81309368
Nope :^)
Have fun sucking English cock you fucking scum.
>>81309458
Very triggered.
>>81309445
Doesn't explain why the goal posts changed.
>>81309430
>I always wondered how Catholic or religious superheroes can continue to have faith when you have shit
Many people have faith BECAUSE their lives are shitty and they face challenges.
Fuck I didn't take my faith as a Catholic seriously until I hit rock bottom with my anxiety problems in college.
Alternatively, just because there are big powerful cosmic entities running around doesn't mean that they're deserving of worship, or can lay claim to either the creative, motive force, or omnibenevolent nature of the Judeo-Christian God.
So what's Christ power level?
Can he take on Thanos solo?
>>81300597
Is it full-on confirmed that Yahweh/Jehovah is a different being than TWAA? I thought I saw a picture from infinity gauntlet of him pictured with all the other "sky father" gods of earth, but I couldn't find it again.
>>81309552
>>omnibenevolent
Sends people to hell who don't worship his son, or according to some denominations, if they don't have good deeds. Changes the rules between the Torah and the New Testament. Gives people lives to suffer through. Drowns the entire world at one point.
Feel free to worship that God.
>>81309736
Sin is the willing removal of one's self from the presence and design of God.
He just gives them exactly what they want.
>muh Problem of Evil
A common argument, but one borne from personal pain that has not been dealt with. A subjective viewpoint, and one that the Church addresses but many people are unwilling to look for in the first place because it's easier to nurse that disdain than to look for answers outside of your own head.
>>81309736
*tip*
>>81309736
If you8 want a really good, philosophical examination of the concept of sin, check out the works of Josef Piper and Wolfgang Smith.
Briefly and simply, sin is less a matter of committing some moral infraction, but voluntarily separating yourself from God. As God is the source of love and of life, creating a distance between him and yourself by tarnishing yourself through sin (and thus tarnishing part of the creating the flows from him), you condemn yourself to an eternity apart from God. There's more to it, but that's as brief as I can be about the subject.
>>81300407
>argh liberals! WHITE GUILT
calm down /pol/, and stick to the topic.
>>81310281
The people who complain about "Catholic Guilt" are generally the same ones who promote white guilt.
>>81309368
>eat the same food as the English,
English food is notoriously shit
>>81310404
and Irish food is better?
>>81309018
>the scandal only happened because some forward-thinking Vatican II types decided it would be a good idea to let homosexuals in the seminaries
>catholics still trying to pin their bullshit on the gays
kek
