How come Reverse-Flash is a 1,000,000 times more scarier and intimidating than Zoom?
Zoom is supposed to be a literal monster, a beast that feeds off other Speedsters Speed-Force vitality. While Reverse-Flash is just a nerd so angry at Flash that he seeks to just fuck his shit up for the sake of it.
Explain, /co/.
>>81273440
You just explained it. Eobard Thawne isn't out for power. He isn't out for recognition. If he wanted he could have went back in time and lived as a genius scientist amongst a sea of simpletons. But he doesn't want that. He wants Barry Allen to suffer. And that one track mindeness makes him a force of nature very few villains can match. Closest I've ever come to being scared of a villain was Reverse Flash (Zolmon and Thawne) and the green goblin (Norman Osborn).
>>81273440
Good acting (from both actors) and character development go a long way. Through time travel and different perspectives we see a lot of Eobard's personality develop; not necessarily chronologically either which adds a lot of depth.
Zoom has very little development and hasn't shown many feats that Reverse Flash isn't capable of. The writers missed out on essential character development so the only thing they can do now is shove explanations into the rest of the season.
>>81273528
So, what went wrong with Zoom? What's missing?
>>81273528
I felt they actually translated quite a bit of Zolomon's personality through Zoom's actions and I'm thinking the next few episodes, where he'll actually be more developed, might earn him newfound appreciation.
>>81273440
Because "Wells" was like a second (okay, third) father to Barry, making the threat an emotional one as well.
Any time they were together, Reverse-Flash was just fucking with him.
>>81273611
Zoom is not present throughout, so they can't explore him quite as much as they did with Thawne. It doesn't help that Garrick was never a convincing mentor to Barry, friend to Cisco or love interest to Caitlin as the script would have you believe.
I don't mind the twist, but they should have made Jay/Hunter an awesome guy for us to feel the sting of betrayal.
>>81273440
Because humans are scary.
>>81273440
because, Tom Cavanaugh, also glowing red eyes and [HELICOPTER NOISE INTENSIFIES]
>>81273440
I haven't seen the show or read Flash comics, but aren't Zoom and Reverse-Flash the same character?
Because he is the ultimate yandere.
>>81273440
Tom Cavanaugh
>>81274458
Not quite. The Reverse-Flash is also known as Professor Zoom, or simply Zoom. His true identity is Eobard Thawne. Hunter Zolomon just takes up the name Zoom to fuck up with Wally West. The third incarnation of the Flash.
>>81273440
Zoom isn't a literal monster or a beast though. He's just some junkie that wants speed, be it through drugs or from other speedsters.
>>81273440
Spooky helicopters.
>>81274667
>Zoom isn't a literal monster or a beast though
But dat voice
>BRRRRRRING ME THE FLASH'S SSSSSPEEEEED!
here's a better question
why does kid flash dress like zoom?
Isn't that like there being a Robin who wears green and purple?
I realize that Kid Flash technically comes first, but... Still.
>>81275160
Speedster voice tricks. Even Barry messed around with his voice talking to Iris.
>>81273764
This is pretty much it. The problem is the lack of presence throughout, and the fact that Jay's relationship with others felt lacking and forced. The best scene showing off Zoom's scary is when he dragged Barry all over town and broke his spine, other than that he has been a let down.
Im pretty sure the question would be answered if someone post that gif of reverse flash taking away Eddie's gun
>>81275265
He originally had the same costume as Barry but in a kid size and that was dumb so they gave him his own.
>>81273440
villains that strike a personal cord for the hero are usually better ultimately
Lex Luthor
Joker
Sinestro
hint hint, wink wink they also usually end up being the arch nemesises
>>81273440
>Reverse-Flash
would this mean he moves really really slow?
>>81275711
You'd think so, but no. The reverse is only in color scheme, source of power, and moral compass.
>>81275711
No, he just does everything in reverse, talking, running ect
But in the future everyone does everything backwards to begin with, so now he just does everything like us
>>81273440
Reverse-Flash has the scary helicopter sfx
>>81273440
Wells-zoom is scarier than blonde real thawne. In fact, real Thawne is a chump.
Did they set up the come back right? I mean, Gydeon can transfer or at least read information from the future to the past because the season 1 newspaper. The usb stick probably has a software to send back information and Reverse Flash will just find he is going to be killed and will not be happy with it.
Tom Cavanaugh, essentially.
>>81273440
RF is great because he's Flash's mentor and rival/villain and the Flash is also the reason he exists.
>Jay
>Shit
>Wally
>Shit
>Jesse
>Shit
All of the new speedsters suck
Reverse-Flash is a lot more compelling because it's not just a supervillain type plot of "i'm doing bad things, and now i'm threatening you."
Rather, he's the monster at the end of a mystery. The audience knows who he is, but there's a great joy and a ton of suspense that comes from seeing the characters find out everything. That aspect of suspense, lies, and hiding makes him very scary.
Another aspect is simply that Zoom has been so "out of sight, out of mind." Reverse-Flash has killed a lot more people viciously at the ends of episode and doing creepy/scary stuff at those points. Maybe it's just me, but it's felt like Zoom has said "BRING ME THE FLASSSHSSSH" a lot more often than we've seen him be a vicious, murdering, crazy guy.
Scary helicopter sounds make all the difference op.
Cisco would look more menacing than either with that soundtrack.
The out of sight stuff was one of the problems with Ra's al Ghul on Arrow last season. He was talked up about how much tough shit he was, but would never be around until later on in the season.
Eh, I think both are pretty fucking intimidating.
Reverse-Flash is indeed terrifying to meet. Especially this scene with Joe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgKupjvF34g
He's a super-powered stalker; which is pretty damned terrifying. You can't escape him from. No matter where you go, he'll find you and make you suffer. Especially throughout time.
I know Season 2 and Zoom disappoints /co/, but I still feel he's scary but in a different way.
Zoom, on the other hand, is like a horror movie villain. He forces metas from Earth-2 to battle Earth-1 Barry so that they could go home. He's like this demon overlord sending his pawns to play with his prey.
Then there's these 2 scenes that stand-out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq3Wmyy8pPw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QEAXu4azUk
His utter curbstomp from Barry was Zoom having some fun. He knows it'll motivate Barry to get faster, but it's 10 times worse than Bane breaking Batman. I know Barry has super-healing, but to be dragged like a prize ala Achilles with Hector's corpse in full view of Central City's media and police is unbelievably brutal and surreal. It reminded me of DCAU Darkseid parading a battered Superman, their champion as part of the spoils of war in Apokolips Now!
Thing is, even though we know now that Zoom is "Jay", we still know nothing about him. Is he human, a demon, or what? His eyes are soulless black pools and how he uses various people like Jessie and masked guy as captives or those Earth-2 lackeys in Deathstorm and Killer Frost.
Reverse-Flash is an obsessed fanboy/stalker so it's all about Barry. Everyone else that he kills or ruins is collateral damage during his autismo into overdrive.
Zoom is if you think Hannibal Lecter, Freddie Krueger, Candyman, Professor Moriarity, Jason, Michael Myers, Pinhead, Leatherface, and every other mass-murdering fiend in fiction with super-speed. He's just as focused on Barry as Eobard, but other people are his playthings too.
>>81273517
>>81273528
This, also Thawne is unpredictable as fuck, he can get you from any point in time, disguise himself as anyone and hurt you in ways you cannot prevent.
Maybe you're miserable in your life and girlfriendless and unaware at the fact that it's Thawne who has been cockblocking you, which makes it so you never build confidence to talk to a girl, he keeps making you spill your spaghetti in front of them, and worse he made it so you never meet the girl of your dreams whom you were married to in another timeline.
Or worse you can be marrying the waifu of your dreams but then it turns out"It was me Anon"
>>81280835
IMO, the second Zoom scene is exactly the point. He's strong, sure, but he lacks the "crazy speedster killer" vibe that we got from Wells-obard in the above clip (or, in the large majority of Thawne from S1).
The first Zoom clip was a lot better, because even though it's not his goal to kill Barry (or really, anyone on Earth-1), he makes it a point that he's so dangerous and fast that he can ruin the Flash's reputation and potentially reveal his identity if he truly wanted to.
Zoom always seemed more dangerous, and the first clip proved it. But Zoom's danger is lessened by the fact that he's not really interested in anything related to Earth-1 besides taking Barry's speed.
>>81280835
I also might add that Zoom's no-mouth mask really adds to his inhuman disposition. Reverse-Flash is horrific with his red eyes and vibrating body, but the episode trailer revealing that Hunter Zolomon was executed wearing that during his execution in the electric chair is a nice touch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF6gtJPny1I
The mask is his trigger so to speak, when Hunter was electrocuted and somehow came back to life as Zoom, it unleashed the monster that had already lurked inside. The serial killer wearing a perversion of a hero's costume that matches his depravity.
>>81281264
I have to disagree. The second Zoom clip is even more horrific because of the fact that he keeps captives in his hidden lair. It reminds me of all those psycho killers that kidnap, torture, rape, murder, cannibalize, etc. innocent people in their private confines. That makes it very unsettling.
>But Zoom's danger is lessened by the fact that he's not really interested in anything related to Earth-1 besides taking Barry's speed.
That's because the singularity gave him the opportunity to do so. If Zoom could hop into the rest of the Multiverse, he'd be going all Highlander on every alternate version of Flash he could find. The moment he does, you'd bet he'd terrorize those Earths.
>>81281097
It's like I said before, Thawne is a stalker who loves to troll and manipulate for his own ends. He kills on the way, but that's merely part of the game for him.
Zoom is straight-up serial killer and that makes me think he's dangerous in his own methodology.
>>81275562
>Lex Luthor
>hint hint, wink wink
I think you meanding ding ding! DING DING DING! DINGDINGDINGDINGDING!
>>81280835
>Jay Garrick made a villain
Golden Age Flash officially ruined forever
Anyone have the upcoming episodes list?
>>81273440
I'd say you answered yourself. When it comes to monsters, even ones that seem unbeatable, there's hope against defeating them. They're monsters and that usually gives some idea of lesser being, I guess? It's hard to put into words.
I guess basically Zoom is a monster so he's just regular fucked up. Reverse Flash is a human who acts like a monster, but is still human. He's evil on his own, because he's obsessive and crazy but also a genius and a good match for flash.
So maybe it's that Zoom just seems like a speedy brute. Sure he's clever and cunning, but the inhuman sense makes him seem more like an animal toying with its meal, whereas Reverse Flash seems like a cold, calculating evil mastermind that is always a step ahead of you.
Think of it this way: would you rather get hunted and killed by a wolf that managed to corner you? Or be hunted and killed by an obsessed madman that knows every aspect of your life that he can fuck up, while ploting under your nose and being in your life without you knowing?
>>81282609
it's not jay garrick, just like s1 eobard wasn't actually harrison wells.
>>81280835
So Zoom is invincible. Great.
So Barry gets effortlessly jobbed by Zoom like a chump? This is supposed to be one of DCs top tier heroes. Not some wet behind the ears rookie. He ought to be winning. not losing like some sort of incompetent chump
Disgusting. One of the greatest heroes being jobbed
>>81282856
barry is still learning, and can barely do half the things he's famous for.
>>81282856
Clever trolling.
Not clever enough (you went too far there at the end), but decently clever.
>>81282973
Well he shouldnt be the abject incompetent failure he showed himself to be here.
Barry and Jay are supposed to be the yardsticks other speedsters are measured against. But Jay is now irredeemably evil and Barry reduced an incompetent jabronie who got his shit pushed in effortlessly. I mean he didn't even make the barest EFFORT to put up a good fight. There's absolutely no way he can ever win against Jay now.
>>81283186
>But Jay is now irredeemably evil
he's not jay.
he's hunter zolomon.
>he didn't even make the barest EFFORT
he went all-out, up to and including throwing lightning, which he'd only recently barely got fast enough to do.
zolomon is just cranked out on super-speedster-steroids.
Neither of them are scary at all, though
>>81283120
So Barry DIDN'T get his backbroken by Zoom?
Because it sure looks to me like Barry got his back broken. The best he could do was a lightning bolt that Zoom effortlessly dodged and used against him? This is Barry fucking Allen. Silver Age icon. He shouldn't be losing like a chump
>>81273440
The guy loved the Flash so much he did cosmetic surgery to look like him, went back in time and started living his life as the Flash and then stared hating him. That shits scary. He knows Barry more than Barry knows himself because he is from the future.
>>81275160
Todd can do a much scarier voice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOcPVmS2-_4
>>81283365
no, this is barry allan, speedforce master in training, and barely fast enough still to even pull off shit like vibrating through walls or run on water.
I just hate that Barry is going to go through the "I can't trust my mentors" funk AGAIN at the end of this season.
>>81273440
He makes you confront the question of just how batshit crazy someone would have to be to dress up as the palette-swap of your hero. And does it in a big yellow suit.
>>81283270
>he went all-out, up to and including throwing lightning, which he'd only recently barely got fast enough to do.
Well if that is going all out, then he's a complete and utter failure. Barry is supposed to be the consummate professional. When Wally became the regular Flash he got compared unfavorably to Barry because Barry was the absolute pinnacle of heroism. His cleverness and skill vanquished his eenemies.
Here? He's just a pathetic weakling who got beaten with extreme ease. Jobbing isn't what Barry is about.
Zoom is like 2/10 while Wellsobard is 10/10.
Last night's episode was retarded as shit and it was still more hype than any Zoom episode. That's crazy.
>>81283270
Alright, But Jay is still shown to be a villain, rather than the upstanding example of heroism that made the name Flash
Did they even bother to read ANY comics at all?
>>81283677
No he mean it's literally not Jay. Jay is probably the masked man who is locked up in Zoom's lair.
>>81283641
>jobbing
you keep using that word.
CW flash is not silver age, comic flash. it's a different take on the character. here, he's not yet the flash who outran death, he's a new, young barry who's still learning and just starting out.
>>81283677
that's exactly how they depicted jay, though, before the reveal that the figure we thought was jay was an impostor pretending to be him. the real jay islikelyzoom's prisoner, with a heavy iron mask and manacles stopping him from escaping.
What's the purer hate, thawnes hate for Barry or mantas hate for Aquaman
>>81273517
>If he wanted he could have went back in time and lived as a genius scientist amongst a sea of simpletons
Professor Zoom: Lethal Protector when??
>>81283753
Professor Manta's hate for AquaFlash on Earth-32
>>81273440
The music, effects, plot and acting etc. make RF so much more terrifying than Zoom, who it seems like they make up as the show goes along.
>>81284168
>effects
You mean, those cheesy laughable vibrations?
>>81283753
My hate for DC Entertainment, that's the purest hate
>>81273440
Because a sufficiently angry person is the scariest monster of all.
I do think that they should mostly stop with the evil speedster stuff after this season. Blew their creative load on Thawne.
>>81283739
>you keep using that word.
I felt pwned would be passe.
They had to shoehorn in a dumb mystery plot because it's the CW and I guess they mandate a mystery in almost every season? They couldn't really develop Zoom while his identity was secret because you can't have just being a person since it would give away who he is.
Also the mystery of his identity was so poorly done, did anyone on the show even give a shit about finding out who he was almost the entire season? They didn't really seem to care beyond the fact he's a giant threat that steals speed.
Basically what was the point of keeping Zoom's identity a mystery other than getting morons on Internet forums to make nonsensical theories? How exactly did Zoom's hidden identity drive the plot in anyway before he was revealed to be Jay?
Revealing that Thawne was shady from episode 1 introduced a lot of tension to every interaction with Barry. There was still an air of mystery but it was actually driving the plot.
I think the reason Zoom isn't as intimidating as Reverse-Flash is just because the show tried so damn hard to make Zoom more intimidating. Reverse-Flash has red eyes and a spooky voice, and that was enough to sell it, but to make Zoom spookier he gets the black costume with the monster-face and an over-the-top evil voice. It's just the same thing but trying harder.
Also we're just told that Zoom is a scary bad guy right off the bat, but with RF he had his own build up. We got to see what a bad speedster is like as we learn more about RF, and that development sells how intimidating he is, but with Zoom we just jumped right into him being a threat.
I guess what I'm trying to say is they ditched the nuance with Zoom.
>>81281264
That's actually a pretty good point that a hadn't considered.
The major difference is the actual danger.
Zoom is creepy, crazy, and looks like a killer, but he just wants flashes speed, which it turns out is because he needs it. As a result, he's willing to used people, but only ise them. Would he kill? Sure, but he usually doesn't it seems.
Thawne just hates flash, and as a result when he's messing with him he's willing to fuck up his surroundings just for the satisfaction of another life flash was too slow to save. He gives no shits about killing and probably enjoys it.
One's willing to kill, the other is happy to kill. One wants flash scared, the other wants flash dead.
Caitlin is my waifu
Thawne is a time-traveling genius sociopathic speedster. A man who puts all his gifts and intelligence towards one petty goal, to make Barry Allen's life a living hell and destroy him.
That coupled with the fact he masqueraded as Wells for 15 years and got close to Barry without him ever knowing it... Zoom never had a chance to be this good.
>>81283550
While I dislike the pattern, I like the e situation it's creating. Thawn was an obsessive genius who also had the 1up due to being from the future and in the flesh of someone else. Being fooled by him was shitty but acceptable. He was clever, it's not their fault the couldn't see it. But now it's happened again, and every feels like it's time to put another marble in the retard jar. They feel like they should've seen it coming, especially since they were all so close. They finally picked themselves up a little only to get kicked back down. It's a bit more devastating the second time.
Plus after all Jay did, and how great he was, they're spitting in his name and cursing themselves over something they wouldn't be able to know; and when the truth is revealed it's going to be anither kick, because they shit all over a hero over, once again, being wrong. Mind you these guys are super scientists, and Joe is a detective. Not knowing stuff, bot being able to figure shit out, can make you feel like the bigest idiot around, especially when you're usually good at it/ it's your job. So while the plot is a risk, it's a stong ground for some good stuff.
>>81275265
Yes. He came first. Why would he change his outfit because some asshole ripped of part of his design?
>>81288763
So is anybody else conflicted about Kevin Smith directing an episode?
>>81281995
God damn it. I fell for it.
>>81290751
Who the fuck is that on the left, and who are they supposed to be?
>>81292456
That's Jason Mewes, but I have no idea who he's going to appear as on the show.
>>81290751
>Jay Garrick and Silent Bob
kek
>>81290751
>Mewes as a bad guy on Flash
I am way too excited for this episode now.
>>81292654
>>81290751
Is he going to be the dude in the metal mask?
>>81283663
At least next ep is Zoom focussed so we should get a better feel for him
>>81292654
Good one, senpai.
>>81273440
In the latest episode, I wanted Wally to tell Thawn so bad, "I need the extra speed to stop someone who'd give you nightmares, Thawn."
But then Thawn would just chuckle and say, "Ah. You mean Zoom. Let me tell you about Zoom." He leans in close to handcuffed Wally. "Zoom is nothing compared to what's coming. Nothing!"
And everyone thinks it's some new speed force villain, but it's really just Iris cucking Barry again and again with a new guy every week. Barry's world implodes when he realizes even Joe gets a turn.
>>81292627
A stoner, I expect.
>>81283516
Candyman was good.
>>81293834
I think it actually would have been all sorts of funny for Barry to just play that scene with Wellsobard as just being ridiculously friendly and throw him for a loop.
"If you are here, that means I failed. That means I never go home!"
"Naw bro, your plan failed but after you got exposed we helped you out."
"...Bullshit."
"No really. We help you build what you called a time sphere an I gave you a push into the future, in return you told me how to save my mother from dying. It was sort of a no harm, no foul situation. After we get this singularity thing wrapped up I am going to go back and stop my mom's death. When you left we actually shook hands."
"That can't be right."
"If it didn't happen, how do I know your name? How do I know what a time sphere is?"
[wellsobard confusion]
"Oh, BTW: there is some guy calling himself Zoom picking off speedsters from across the multiverse and stealing their speed. So be careful."
[wellsobard confusion intensifies]
>>81294109
I think Eobard knew about Jay and Zoom hence his reaction to Jay's helmet coming through before Barry comes back.
>>81275265
He wore primary red in the super friends show. I personally think the DC reboot should have a Wally West who inverts his red and yellow color scheme when he becomes his own super hero. The only problem is that real fans would compare him to Kid zoom.
>>81294209
Doesn't matter as much as the fact that Barry is warning Eobard about a threat for what appears to be concern for his well being.
The idea that, in the not too distant future, he and Barry Allan are FRIENDS would drive Eobard up the wall. Especially if changing that means he doesn't go home.
Is Wells Eobard? Why are there 2 different actors if they're the same characters?
>>81296673
Watch Season 1.
>>81273440
Reverse flash
>Constantly scheming
>controls the protagonists without their knowing
>killed barry's mom and gloats about it
>while also feeling a fatherly love for the man he hates
Zoom
>GIBE SPEED FORCE OR I VIBRATE U
>>81273440
I actually think Zoom is scarier because of the voice and the viciousness, but i do think Eobard is a WAY better villain in the show
>>81274458
Zoom = Hunter Zolomon, Wally's Reverse Flash
Professor Zoom = Eobard Thawne, Barry's Reverse Flash
The archenemies of the Flashs are always Reverse Flash, like Inertia being Barts and the Rival being Jay's, the only one with only "Reverse-Flash" as a name is Daniel West, from the new 52
>>81292777
Why does he need to wear that mask?
>>81297526
Which one had the time fuckery? With the crazy talking.
>>81297796
Hunter
>>81297819
He best boi
