With a bunch of new art
Newsarama: Grant, I know you mentioned having done a lot of research as you tried to approach Wonder Woman in a different way. When you first started putting this together, what was the main approach you wanted to take?
>Grant Morrison: The first thing I did was, I kind of wanted to get away from the warrior woman first thing, because that didn't seem to fit with the original character, as I came into it. Everyone had taken that for granted for a long time. And I'm not saying that's a bad portrayal; I'm just saying that old characters like Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman have had a lot of incarnations and a lot of ways of working out a character, but I noticed that this particular aspect of the character had become quite prominent.
>And I thought, I'd like to do something different, because there's no point in doing the character if you don't have something different to say.
>So I went back to the original Marston stories and I was just blown away by the weird atmosphere, in the sense of an alternative culture and alternative sexuality that I think embodied the whole character, everything about the strips — you know, and all that ridiculous bondage stuff that was going on in almost every panel. It seemed like a very different feel than the current version of Wonder Woman, at least for me, anyway.
>You know, Diana doesn't carry a sword and shield in the original. She's got bracelets that can deflect any projectile. And she has the lasso that can make people obey her commands. So she's a kind of unbeatable person to fight, because she's also super-strong and fast and durable and the rest of it.
>It just seemed going back to that original version yielded a lot more material that I felt was more interesting in a modern context.
Was just going to post this desu.
>>81206942
Nrama: Yet you're telling a new origin story of Wonder Woman that varies from the original. Were you trying to modernize it? Why alter it?
>Morrison: I went to the original Wonder Woman origin, and it's basically that Steve Trevor crashes on the island and Wonder Woman falls in love with him, and then she goes off to fight World War II hand-in-hand with her love. And her mother kind of waves her off.
>And I felt that, while that story was fine in World War II, we're not in a global conflict in the same way right now. So that aspect of the origin didn't work.
>And then it occurred to me that maybe it would be more interesting and more dramatic and dynamic if Diana wants to run away from the island for reasons of her own — because she seems bored, because she's been around for many, may centuries.
>Now, suddenly, she's much more interesting if there's tension between her and her mother. And there's more potential drama among the characters.
>And out of that just came the new origin, where it's more of a princess story where she's trying to escape from an overbearing mother who's trying to protect her too much. And that just gave us a slightly different dynamic.
>It just grew out of rationalizing, what would it actually be like to live with the same group of women for 3,000 years on the same island? And what kind of culture would emerge from that? And how would they treat each other? And how weird and ritualistic might it become after such a long, long time?
>Out of solving these problems came this slightly different approach to the origin, although it definitely retained some of the familiar elements.
Nrama: It's a very different island than the more prominent modern interpretation of Wonder Woman's homeland. Does this tie more with the original portrayal of her home island?
>>81207060
>Morrison: Yeah, and I think in subsequent portrayals, the Amazons have been shown as being trapped in Greek culture, operating at this weird pre-industrial level. But to me, them having technology makes much more sense. You know, 3,000 women on an island who've made the decision to have this absolute separatist approach from men wouldn't just sit there looking at seashells. They'd build a culture.
>So I had to come up with what culture was built and what kind of machines and technology they used. They've got their own propulsion systems and their own materials. They have philosophy, they have music, they have art. And they also have physical fitness and war. But that's only part of what, to me, would be a much greater culture.
>The way you see the Amazons and the way you see Diana — Diana alone can hold off a platoon of soldiers. The men in men's world have no chance against these women.
>So we kind of wanted to present them more in that way, that there was technology, there was culture. They weren't just trapped in some barbaric warrior stage.
Nrama: I think the technology isn't the only thing that makes it feel modern. You mentioned before that she's bored and wants to get away from her mom. I think that's a very modern idea — I feel like that's all over social media, that teens are bored and want to see the world. I know she's a lot older than a "teen," but relatively speaking, she's at that stage somewhat, isn't she? Did you think that would be relatable to modern audiences?
>Morrison: Yeah, yeah. That's what I hope, that people can relate to it. Again, I wasn't sure that the idea that she just instantly falls in love with the first man she sees was as modern, you know? In this story, she actually sees Steve Trevor as a way to escape from the prison that she feels like she's in. And she actually uses him, you know? She uses Steve more than she falls in love with him. But she uses him in a way that saves his life.
>>81207146
>So again, yeah, I wanted to make her motivations a little more interesting than just, hey, some guy shows up and she instantly changes her entire life. And I felt that was more modern and would make it more relatable to young women of today.
Nrama: Let's talk about the art. People might be familiar with Yanick's work, but there's a real sexuality about the approach — it's not only part of the story, but it's apparent in the art as well. Was that something you and Yanick discussed?
>Morrison: Definitely. Again, looking back at the early stuff and how Harry Peter, the artist on Wonder Woman, was doing this beautiful, fluid, good-girl art. He was the originator of the term, in comics, of "good girl art."
>So we wanted to take that head on. They looked at Hollywood film stars of the 1940s, and we thought, let's take that and acknowledge how they wanted the Amazons to be presented as very glamorous women. They don't look like warriors. And we thought, what if the Amazons decided that's the way they wanted to look? That's the cultural look?
>We updated that and made them all look like supermodels, because we thought that's the kind of modern version of the Harry Peter glamor girl. They're a lot more athletic looking. They're very tall and slim, and because they're much more powerful than humans, they don't need to put on muscles to lift big weights, you know? Which is why Diana can lift up a tank without enormous muscles.
>We just decided to present them as this absolutely idealized body type, in the same way that Marston and Peter presented them.
>And then by contrast, when Diana gets to man's world and she meets women, they're all different shapes and sizes and ethnicities. And there's very much a contrast between them and this kind of genetically perfect, gazelle-like Amazonian physique. That was definitely something we wanted to confront and have in the book, and make a statement a bit, without being heavy-handed.
>>81207265
Nrama: Another surprising thing is that Steve Trevor is a black man. I assume that was a conscious decision, also to reflect the diversity of the outside world?
>Morrison: Yeah, definitely on the diversity. We just wanted more representation in the book generally.
>But in terms of Steve, it's also — again, there are a lot of characters who play opposite Diana, and we wanted Steve to be very physically opposite to her. Originally, Steve Trevor played the kind of feminine role in the Wonder Woman stories. He always seemed kind of boring next to Wonder Woman and all the girls in the stories. And I find it really hard to believe she would have any interest in this man at all beyond the scientific. So I found it much more interesting to have a man who seems potentially much stronger than that original slightly milk-softish Steve Trevor from the original. So I just updated him and made him a much stronger looking dude.
>You see him as he's coming up out of the water, when Diana first sees him, and the parachute silks resemble the shell — we were kind of saying, yeah, this guy's in the feminine role, but think again. This isn't the Steve Trevor you're familiar with.
>And he's a much more ambiguous figure in the book. You know, she's not a love interest, necessarily. And you don't even know if his intentions are absolutely honorable in the book. So we wanted to make him much more of a complex character that Diana could play off of, rather than the banal figure I felt Trevor was originally.
>>81207352
Nrama: I think most people know who Wonder Woman is, but is there anything you wanted to let readers know about this version?
>Morrison: I think what's good about it is that it's a complete story. It tells a whole origin story for Wonder Woman. And what makes it interesting is that it explores some of the more provocative elements of the Wonder Woman myth and tries to rethink that stuff in a modern context — and hopefully the same things that you would find in an adventure story about a princess escaping from boredom.
>>81206942
>>81207060
>>81207146
>>81207265
>>81207352
>>81207389
The art is pure sex
>>81207060
you will never have your genitals groped by the princess of the amazons
>>81207265
>Men's world is bad
Does this trigger you /co/?
>>81206942
>in a different way
But it's literally the same old Grant Morrison 'do the original material but act like you're being subversive' deal.
His thought processes seem sound but these previews seem written by a madman
>>81207352
>>But in terms of Steve, it's also — again, there are a lot of characters who play opposite Diana, and we wanted Steve to be very physically opposite to her. Originally, Steve Trevor played the kind of feminine role in the Wonder Woman stories. He always seemed kind of boring next to Wonder Woman and all the girls in the stories. And I find it really hard to believe she would have any interest in this man at all beyond the scientific. So I found it much more interesting to have a man who seems potentially much stronger than that original slightly milk-softish Steve Trevor from the original. So I just updated him and made him a much stronger looking dude.
I can already here the ceaseless cries of the cucked white male. This will not be a pleasant time for /co/
>>81209223
oh this book is going to be absolute lunacy, no doubt
/pol/ is going to have a field day with this.
>>81209121
Quiet down, Alan.
>>81209400
/co/ loves Morrison so its okay when he does it
Thank you Based Morrison, once again.
This is the thickest Wondy art I've ever seen yet. Can I have more?
>>81209400
I started laughing when I got to this part
>Make Steve stronger, how do I do that?
>I KNOW! I'll make it black
Anyway, Morrison missed the point of Steve, he is suppose to be Diana's damsel in distress and he was still a badass since he would help Diana defeat bad guys too.
The essence of Marston's Wonder Woman was already modernized and updated by Perez, then Rucka, then Simone, and even Azzarello doesn't do a bad job of it.
All of this is driving home to me that Morrison doesn't get Wonder Woman and never ever will. He doesn't understand that writers decades before him have already taken on her Golden Age origins and transferred them to more modern sensibilities.
You know, Wondy was the absolute weakest link of his JLA run. I think she's just beyond him.
>>81207060
>goes straight for the bbc
Typical white woman.
>>81210819
Morrison says he's not a love interest multiple times
>>81210918
Because he's a sex interest.
>>81210780
>the essence of Marston's Wonder Woman
I don't think anyone has ever gone full-on with the bondage since Marston
>>81211112
>>We updated that and made them all look like supermodels, because we thought that's the kind of modern version of the Harry Peter glamor girl. They're a lot more athletic looking. They're very tall and slim, and because they're much more powerful than humans, they don't need to put on muscles to lift big weights, you know? Which is why Diana can lift up a tank without enormous muscles.
Diana's got some thick arms and broad shoulders for a supermodel. I guess amazons are a race of this chick.
>>81210918
Morrison says a lot of things that aren't true
>>81211112
>>81211150
the first image was perfectly acceptable for your point, anon
>>81210674
He didn't miss the point that he was boring and nobody really gives a shit about him, though.
Most normies can't even name him, they just assume Wondy takes turns hooking up with the main JL heroes.
>>81210956
I'm talking about the whole idea of "loving submission." The concept of bringing overwhelming force to bear on your opponent so that they'll stop fighting, and then using your love and compassion to bring them around to your point of view.
That's sort of the thematic core of Marston's Wondy, beyond all the bondage and sex games. That's what Perez did for her when he rebooted her origin, and all the great Wonder Woman writers have followed in his stead. Anyone who really 'gets' Diana manages to strike the ideal balance between the 'loving' part and the 'submission' part.
It feels like yet again Morrison just doesn't grasp the subtlety of Diana's character, of how fine the needle she threads as both an ideal mother figure and a ruthless warrior. They aren't either-or characterizations, they're a kind of organic matrix, a Yin and Yang that routinely cross and bleed into each other.
I just don't feel it. I can't help but feel that Morrison has fucked her up yet again.
>>81209041
>Caring about Earth One
Only good part is retarded Batman
>>81210117
/pol/ isn't going to give a shit. They don't care about comics at all. After all comics were pioneered by Jews.
>>81207060
Why Wondie are using this fucking ugly pants?
>>81211368
Skirts are haram
>>81211330
They still get mad at movies tho
>>81211281
>I just don't feel it. I can't help but feel that Morrison has fucked her up yet again.
>Creepy bondage sex
>Wonderdickery
>silly boys
Sounds like classic Wondy to me. Also it's Earth One so who gives a shit?
Somebody post this on /pol/
>>81211281
>The concept of bringing overwhelming force to bear on your opponent so that they'll stop fighting, and then using your love and compassion to bring them around to your point of view.
That's a very creative way of saying "she'll snap your neck"
>>81211405
So does every other board.
>>81211330
Wonder Woman wasn't created by a Jew however.
After reading some of those Marston stories, It's not surprising she doesn't have the same appeal as Batman and Superman. Kind of hard for people to get behind a hero based on themes of S&M
>>81211450
Why?
>>81211405
Which ones? Since Trump started winning all their energy goes into meming him into office. Also movies and comics are two different beasts. Comics have always been "degenerate" and full of fags, minorities, and other shit /pol/ hates.
I know they didn't give a fuck about Captain Falcon
>>81211492
A polyamorous second-wave feminist into bondage, though
>>81211492
But she was created for feminist reasons. And Marston is the perfect fit for their definition of cuckold.
>>81211450
If you're to go over there and bait them, don't get asshurt when they return the favor /co/mblr
>>81211605
>perfect fit for their definition of cuckold
but he lived with his ladies until he died, and it seems they all cared for each other very much
>>81211517
I still can't comprehend how Marston got away with essentially creating hardcore feminist propaganda admittedly created to convince young boys of the merits of converting to a loving matriarchal society. Not only that, but this character becomes a mainstay icon of the company for decades to come.
This seems like it will piss off SJWs and /pol/.
>>81211677
He also thought women were superior to men. Ergo he was a cuck. And obviously I'm using the retarded 4chan version.
>>81211824
That's the beauty of it. It's going to make everyone mad. Especially /co/. Based Morrison.
>>81211839
To be fair, that is pretty dumb. Men are obviously superior.
>>81211881
/co/'s going to love it just for how ridiculous it is
>>81211895
get a load of this fag
bet you like chokcing on some juicy dick too, homo boy
>>81209041
>>81209400
>>81210117
>>81210819
>>81210946
>>81211330
>>81211389
>>81211405
>>81211450
>>81211492
>>81211544
>>81211555
>>81211605
>>81211765
>>81211824
>>81211839
>>81211959
Fuck me it's gonna be literally impossible to discuss this comic on this board isn't it?
>>81212009
it's going to be impossible to discuss ANYWHERE
>>81212009
Nope :^)
>>81211940
It's Morrison, so half of /co/ will love it regardless of quality and the other half will shit on it to piss off the Morrisonfags
>>81212009
It's impossible to discuss anything on /co/ as it is
>>81211440
>diana was known for wonderdickery
>clark was known for superdickery
LIKE POTTERY
After reading this whole thread I understand now why I've never liked WW
>>81209400
Changing Steve Trevor to a black dude "because I wanted to make him stronger" is literally my only gripe about this entire project.
Hopefully he won't be that relevant.
>>81213276
It sounds like it was more about making him her opposite. Muscular to her lithe, dark skinned to her light, dick to her vag, etc.
He still sounds hilariously racist in the interview though
So /co/....
Wonder Woman with a sword and shield
or
Wonder Woman with an Axe?
>>81213588
sword and shield
>>81213588
Sword and shield, no question.
>>81213588
Lasso
>>81213588
no axe. lasso
>>81213588
this
>>81213995
What is that Wonder Womans Mega digivolution?
>>81213802
Such a great take on the costume. It's amazing what tweaking the colors can do to the outfit.
Too bad they're changing it for Rucka's run, but I think the dark bronze works about as well as the silver.
>>81213588
Lasso only, please and thank you.
>>81212009
But... that's exactly what they were doing. It wasn't masteful exegesis, but still.
>>81213995
I love the screaming chicken armor
>>81213588
Bare hands, like real a man.
This was more retarded than I thought it would be
>>81210780
Thank you for writting exactly what I think for me, anon
>>81207146
>You know, 3,000 women on an island who've made the decision to have this absolute separatist approach from men wouldn't just sit there looking at seashells.
That's exactly what they would do.
>>81209041
>WAFFLES
Autistic horny Wonder Woman calling every man "boy" has the potential to be worse than All-Star Batman & Robin's Wonder Woman
I'm ready
I think
>>81211368
The leaked pages show that her costume evolves over course of the book to a classic look.
>>81207060
>Trevor is probably going to be gay/asexual in this version
>>81209223
>seem written by a madman
First Morrison comic?
>>81211454
you're like 3 versions behind senpai
Besides this, what Earth One books are worth reading?
>>81216003
None, this one included.
>>81211959
>implying that's a bad thing
Face it, the great thinkers, artists, and architects of history loved boipussy.
Even Max Landis' Wonder Woman sounds better than this trash.
>He explained that in his view, Wonder Woman is a flawed character. She doesn’t share this flaw with the other male Justice League members. How she was created to be cheesecake and exploitative, and that there’s yet to be a definitive Wonder Woman story. But that as a character, she’s meaner than Batman, smarter than Superman, almost as strong, but knows martial arts because Superman never needed to learn them, so then he gets ambushed by her using Navy Seal training. What Landis says he is interested in is creating a fundamentally awful version of the character than will piss off everyone, which is “SO MUCH FUN!” While he feels that his Superman’s only flaw is the limits of what he knows and that he makes impulsive choices, his Batman is essentially a monstrous sociopath, but who won’t kill because killing is wrong, his Wonder Woman would be really terrible, as she’d come from a society that hates men, she can kill anyone who argues with her and will, and while there’s a lot of interesting places to take this interpretation of the character, she’s from a society of warriors who “CUT THEIR BOOBS OFF” and who killed all the men, except the cute ones, bred with them and THEN killed them. How she is even on the Justice League amazes him, as he considers Wonder Woman to be the “sickest most bad ass punisher.” He then described a fight sequence where Superman and Batman have to team up to stop her, and after she brutally attacks them, leaving Superman almost missing an eye, Superman is finally able to defeat her by kissing her and sucking all the air out of her lungs.
>“Never do that again.” Max stated in his best Batman voice.
>>81215890
That would be a hilarious irony.
>>81208001
>tfw that is my fetish
>>81216003
Superman is interesting, like Man of Steel done right.
Batman is hilarious at worst and captivating at best.
Teen Titans is decent, but reads like a rejected movie script.
And Strazyinski(?) is doing Flash, which is why Morrison's first Multiversity Too book is Flash.
>>81216088
>leaving Superman almost missing an eye
He really loves his violence. I still contend he was there when the helicopter went down.
>>81216210
Don't forget Manapul's Aquaman.
>>81216210
>Superman is interesting, like Man of Steel done right.
Not really
>>81215975
Does she lasso Doomsday's neck in BvS, or his body?
It would be great to include it in this.
>>81216269
I haven't seen it yet, but someone should add it when we get a cap.
>>81216088
So he wants to give the Wonder Woman from ASBAR her own comic?
>>81216269
His body
>>81216402
bummer
>>81207352
>So I found it much more interesting to have a man who seems potentially much stronger than that original slightly milk-softish Steve Trevor from the original. So I just updated him and made him a much stronger looking dude.
Holy shit, Morrison is a literal cuck.
Ironic, that's a thing him and Moore have in common.
>>81207265
this is like a scene from the first zoolander
>>81211150
who is this semon demon
>>81207352
>HilaryClinton.jpg
>>81217099
Julia Vins
>>81212009
Don't worry, I will make an edit where Trevor is a white guy so we can discuss this comic
>>81217351
That's fucking gross.
>>81217714
"Lets make Steve a stronger character by making him a black dude Diana immediately tries to chain up."
I dunno this interview killed a lot of my interest in the comic, Grant seems super interested in the shit about the character I'm not into.
Its weird because I always thought Diana and her mom having beef would be a great take on the character, but I think the Amazons being culturally (not technologically) stagnant is a big part of why Diana should WANT to leave paradise island.
>>81216088
Max "I'm a literal cuck who declared himself feminist but would say evey perfect female character is mary sue" Landis.
>>81217839
Rey is a Mary Sue, deal with it faggot
>>81217805
This is where /co/ faggots turn on Morrison like this little cocksucker, huh?
>>81217895
As much of a mary sue as Luke and Anakin. :^)
>>81217986
Luke failed constantly and pretty much always needed help
Anakin was a literal retard
>>81218018
Luke makes a shot better than a targeting computer can in ANH and Anakin is apparently the only human (on Tatooine or the galaxy idk) who can podrace and he's 8 years old in TPM.
They both did this before any real training.
>>81218018
Also At the beginning of Empire, Luke telekineticly grabs the lightsaber in the ice cave. Nobody had even mentioned that was a Jedi power before then, and nobody showed him... He just knew.
>>81218455
>Luke makes a shot better than a targeting computer can in ANH
With precedence.
>I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home. They're not much bigger than two meters.
>>81218563
And Rey survived on a hostile desert planet and knows how to use staff, your point is moot here boy.
>>81206942
nice and thick
>>81214105
I know, right?
Its all about the cut. Higher boots so they're more like armour. a proper high bust line corset. (WW doesn't need stripper hanging all over the place) and lower pantie line so they're more like active wear hot pants instead of a bikini-cut.
>>81218501
>>81218455
Ugh don't bother to respond to trolls who hate women
>>81218680
>>81218455
>>81218501
>>81217986
>being a anally blasted TFA shill
What a sad life
>mfw this thread rn
>>81217351
She shoulda been cast instead of Gadot
>>81206942
>Fetishbait
>THICK
>Snu-Snu
>Love solves everything
This book is going to be comfy as fuck. Thanks Grant
>>81210780
He gets Wonder Woman, anon, but you don't
>And I'm not saying that's a bad portrayal; I'm just saying that old characters like Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman have had a lot of incarnations and a lot of ways of working out a character, but I noticed that this particular aspect of the character had become quite prominent.
And more importantly
>And I thought, I'd like to do something different, because there's no point in doing the character if you don't have something different to say.
>>81218680
>moot
Who?
>>81218810
I don't know if she speaks English
>>81217805
They clearly fucking are.
Grant basicay has them as people who have been doing the same shit over and over again just with better tech
>>81211281
But.... they didnt. Rucka came close when he had her more like a Ghandi or King type but where was that in azz or perezs run. Or even Simones
>>81211765
Because he was right.
Dianas sales only tanked when he died.
>>81219231
Doesn't she essentially love the Firstborn into defeat at the end of Azz's run? And before that she turns at least three enemies into allies.
>>81219166
He's the guy who created 420chan
>>81219296
No, she kicks him into a pit. Azz Wondy talked about love a lot but she acted grumpy and aggressive
>>81219204
We know Gadot doesn't
seems bad
>>81217805
>but I think the Amazons being culturally (not technologically) stagnant is a big part of why Diana should WANT to leave paradise island.
O just fond that very superficial. What I get from Morrison is that no matter how perfect a place can be, you'll get bored of it eventually, especially of you live for so long.
I can already see /co/ hating this because "women" and tumbler hating this because "how dare you sexualize women?" This book might end up triggering every possible audience.
>>81219574
He just thinks women are unable to get out of creative rut without Men leading the charge anon.
>>81218455
I feel like a big part of it is that Luke and Anakin are introduced being good at things that we haven't seen before, in universe. Luke is the original force sharpshooter, Anakin is the original podracer super awesome guy.
But the one place Rey is pretty egregiously good is at the mind control thing. Something that we don't see anyone do until they spend some time getting good, and certainly not right away. And yet she does it mere moments after she realizes she probably has some force powers.
Everything else is fairly low key on the MC/Mary Sue scale and pretty easily excusable. But there's really no reason for that scene to be there and it just feels off.
>>81220083
I think being instantly being a brilliant pilot for the Falcon and having Han instantly fall in love with her was pretty Sue-ish
>>81220156
Eh, fair. She'd been working on it for years, though. The Han Solo thing is a bit much, but it didn't really rub me the wrong way as much as the mind trick thing.
>>81220241
Had she? I thought she had just seen it around and knew it was unclaimed
>>81210780
Female characters in general, Morrison does not do well. His Wonder Woman in JLA/Final Crisis was bad. His New X-Men run had Emma Frost and Jean Grey heavily defined by fighting over Scott. In Seven Soldiers, literally every woman was defined by their interactions with men. Zatanna fucked up by wishing for a boyfriend, Bulleteer was transformed into a super by her husband, Ystin pretended to BE a man (which is somewhat in keeping with the character, to be fair), and is driven by his love for Galahad.
He writes fantastic stuff, but it is kinda hard to find women he's written that aren't just reacting to/hunting for their men.
>>81220288
The women in Invisibles (including Lord Fanny)?
>>81220265
Maybe I was over reading it. She mentions things about it that don't really seem like she should know if she wasn't at least one of the people working on. Things about the hyperdrive addon or whatever that was, the quality of the ship itself, and so on. Perhaps I'm being too generous to the story, but it seemed like a logical thing for me in the moment, that she would have some knowledge of the ship from working in the junkyard all her life. Great piloting skill itself, independent from engineering skill, is whatever, but that's kind of a dime-a-dozen skill with force MCs anyway.
>>81220406
I'd be ok if she was just a great pilot, but better than Han with his own ship is where I draw the line
>>81213995
>"Greek" hero
>essentially playing an 'eagle knight'
Nahua, please.
>>81220288
The three women in Seven Soldiers were great though.
>>81220288
Wasn't it a thing in Arthurian legends that EVERYONE loved Galahad
>>81220313
Haven't read that, so I can't speak to it directly, but the synopsis of the characters does not inspire much confidence. Ragged Robin sounds acceptable, but Lord Fanny is born male at birth, but raised female (that's not how trans people work), was previously a prostitute, and was brutally raped. And then there's a woman who gets brainwashed a few times, whose primary motivation is to save her brother... and her name is "Boy".
>>81220526
Zatanna was kind of stuck in self-loathing, and her daddy issues were front and center in a not so good way. Ystin was good, but it would've been so easy to tweak her origin - instead of pining after Galahad, why not simply make her eager to serve justice like any other knight? Hell, it was supposed to be a proto-Camelot, why was it still men-only to begin with? Same issue with Bulleteer - she was a research scientist. Why couldn't her husband have died on his own, and SHE figured out how to make Smartskin work, instead of dumb luck? You could have preserved every other aspect of that story without issue.
>>81220722
Well
We obviously don't have any data on how much nature vs. nuture affects transgenderism, but being a prostitute and being raped is a pretty accurate depiction of how trans people were treated until very recently, and still are treated now, especially in other countries
>>81220722
Bulleteer wasn't a research scientist, she was a special ed teacher. She expressly mentions that she had to quit her job working with autistic kids because they no longer believed she was a human being. You also have to understand that the point of Bulleteer was that getting powers ruined her life and she finds being a superhero existentially terrifying.
If you really want to talk about Morrison's issues with writing women in Bulleteer, look no further than Supersonic Sally. Her entire character is basically a huge sex-negative screed.
Also, if you read a lot of Morrison you'll notice that sexual corruption comes up frequently. In Seven Soldiers alone it comes up in Zatanna, Manhattan Guardian, Bulleteer, Mr. Miracle, and Shining Knight.
>>81213588
Club, like a proper mountain.
>>81220912
It's been a while since I read it, I thought I remembered her as another researcher. Still, wouldn't have been a big issue to change her into being one - instead of autistic kids being afraid, you could have her unable to find work in any lab for not knowing what effects her skin/sweat/breath have on experiments. She wouldn't even have to have perfected it to use on herself, she could have done it just to earn some money, and been forced to use it on herself somehow. I got the point of powers ruining her life and being terrified of being a superhero, but there's multiple ways to approach that. And most of them were probably better than "got turned into a hero by power-pervert husband".
Supersonic Sally was another example that came to mind -corrupted because of who her father was, instead of just being targeted by a regular dirtbag, somehow turning her corruption into becoming a homewrecker. She was rather inextricably linked to the husband, though, so I can't really see ways to improve that character.
>Also, if you read a lot of Morrison you'll notice that sexual corruption comes up frequently. In Seven Soldiers alone it comes up in Zatanna, Manhattan Guardian, Bulleteer, Mr. Miracle, and Shining Knight.
Yeah, Zee losing her powers for wanting to get laid and the Female Furies being turned into a pack of hookers didn't sit too well with me.
>>81220860
>We obviously don't have any data on how much nature vs. nuture affects transgenderism
Yeah, we do. Nurture has been pretty well discarded as a viable theory for trans people in favor of genetics and brain biology/neurochemistry.
>but being a prostitute and being raped is a pretty accurate depiction of how trans people were treated
So, that's all they can ever be? It's like using rape as a backstory for female characters - yes, it happens, yes, it happens a lot, but using it as a default is lazy and cliche. It's making a character a stereotype over a person.
>>81221591
obviously that's not all it can ever be, but for a trans woman in Latin America in the late 80s, that is entirely likely to be what their life is likeand I know you haven't read it, but Lord Fanny is easily one of the best characters in the book, not a stereotype at all
>>81206942
>>81207060
>>81207146
>>81207265
>>81207352
>>81207389
Well, I think he tried too hard to be 'different', I hope this won't end up like Batman incorporated vol.2.
>>81207389
This is going to to be obe of morrisons greats but /co/ will shit itself
Thank DC for destroying /co/ first bvs and now this
>>81221936
>/co/ will finally die
THANK YOU BASED MORRISON
>>81212073
Just go to your LCS and talk about it there. I am going to have to go to my secondary store for this cauae its going to be all the buzz there
>>81222178
I only talk to the ones at the shop that's far away though ;_;
>>81216210
JMS doing Flash? I love the guys stuff but im just not sure about this. He does great work with god like power characters but...the flash? I'll give it a shot though
>>81219166
What?
>>81212088
>and the other half will shit on it to piss off the Morrisonfags
Not to piss off anyone, our half actually hates morrison's crackpot shit.
>>81223359
Yes, yes. Just like that anon.
>>81219166
Some gut
>>81221680
>and I know you haven't read it, but Lord Fanny is easily one of the best characters in the book, not a stereotype at all
I really liked how he was this man-eater party girl femme fatale super spy, but his relationship with Jack slowly turned him into a surrogate parent (both mom and dad).
He even got super fat once his "child" moved out.
>>81207060
>>81207146
>>81207265
>>81207352
>>81207389
coloring is actual dogshit, nice one DC!!
>>81207265
>that over the top drama
Dis is gonna be gud.
I'm psyched.
>>81220288
>literally every woman was defined by their interactions with men
So?
>>81228623
Great post!
>>81224906
>Fairbairn
>bad?
>>81210780
Its interesting how if I were to say Byrne, Snyder, ect modernized Superman, Superman fans would throw a hissy fit.
But when the equivalent is done to Wonder Woman, she is being 'modernized.'
>>81210674
>>81207352
Actually you and Morrison I think have Steve Trevor wrong. There are moments in the Marston comics where Steve is very heroic, masculine, and likable.
Sure he gets saved by Wonder Woman a lot, but he also saves him.
>>81224906
Eat shit.
>>81228686
Okay. So what? If the characters themselves are well written, who cares about base motivation. What is with this obsessive need to divorce one half of the human race from the other half in fiction?
>>81210780
>The essence of Marston's Wonder Woman was already modernized and updated by Perez
No it really wasn't. Perez' Wonder Woman is great, but it's nothing like Marston's, and the others that follow only drifted further.
>>81228786
Superman is modernized every 5 years anon. And nobody modernized Diana since Perez until the reboot hit.
>>81228855
>Actually you and Morrison I think have Steve Trevor wrong. There are moments in the Marston comics where Steve is very heroic, masculine, and likable.
He's literally Diana's Lois with a dick archetype.
>>81211765
They were really fun stories.
>>81216761
>>81209400
>>81211605
Would you rather get cucked by a black man or a deep one?
>>81229014
Unless you have hate agenda against niggers, does it really matter?
>>81228919
Exactly. Her characterization, world, cast, and villains were almost completely changed. You only saw the return of characters like Giganta at the very end of Byrne's run and Steve and Etta were a couple for over 20 years!
>>81228920
There were both modernized after Crisis of Infinite Earths, as far as I know, for the first time. Though you are right in saying they 'modernize' Superman every 5 years.
>>81228953
Steve is a fun character, but he's not nearly as much of a firecracker as Lois was. He was a pretty standard heroic prince type of guy, and honestly he was a little bland. But him being sort of bland was fine, as he bounced off Wonder Woman's mischievous nature quite well. Their romance was usually treated as more of a game than anything.
>>81229200
He's very much a regular army archtype.
>>81229200
And that's why it's completely fine for Morrison to change up Steve because a) he's not a universal character and b) that version of Steve doesn't fit in the story Morrison's trying to tell.
Why is everyone so hype for this?
>>81230640
it's about the journey not the destination, even if it's bad it will be good
>>81207352
Did Johns cuck Morrison again by already making Steve a cool, interesting character in JL?
>>81230640
I wanna see how Morrison handles all this. Will it be a good read and interesting take on Wondy or a glorious buttblasting train wreck? I want to know. I just hope that whatever it is, it's not boring. That would be what makes it a disappointment to me.
So, how do you guys think Moz will react when everyone ignores this for Rucka's WW: Year One?
>>81230740
They are working together toward the same goal, you'll understand in time
>>81230777
No fan of Morrison's would be against multiple interpretations
>>81230640
This thread has seemed pretty negative to me.
>>81230824
Yeah, but I'm talking about how Rucka's will be heralded as the definitive Wondy origin, and Morrison's will probably drop ou of the casual consciousness quickly (excluding controversies)
>>81230794
They are not, Stop defending Johns, he writes for plebs and casuals and dumbs down anything to make things casual friendly.
>>81231010
>not realizing Morrison comes up with the crazy ideas and Johns distills them for the casual audience
When will you learn?
>>81230953
OGN vs main universe, Morrison's was never going to even uproot Perez's origin. I don't think it matters.
>>81231074
Since Johns got the CCO job he doesnt care about that. He is a selfish prick that took the Writting job in the Batman movie for himself instead of helping Morrison.
>>81228953
Hes man dejah thoris
>>81231152
Johns has literally done nothing wrong, he is a true disciple of Moz
>>81207060
>first chapter
>already fucks a black guy
kek
>>81231284
>Screw Batman writter by taking tha batman gig
>Ignore all Morrison's work on the new gods and turn them into Generic aliens
>Ignore Final Crisis in Converguence
>cyborg in the league
>Cockblocking EVERY WRITTER that tried to use Billy Batson
Johnsfags are shit
So with this Morrison will have finally worked his way through the trinity I guess.
Are you guys expecting this to be as tight and focused as ASS, or more sprawling and diverse like his Bat-stuff? Looking at what's here I'm inclined to think the former. But you never know with Morrison. He's a crazy person.
>>81231369
>this lack of faith
one day you'll see the plan in its true form
Marston was right
>>81231369
Don't act like Morrison's take on the New Gods wasn't generic as hell. His Darkseid was nothing more than a slightly erudite Kalibak. Final Crisis was shitty with a few good parts.
>>81231404
The last thing ASS should be described as is "tight and focused," it's a love letter to half the Silver Age.
>>81231512
I think he means thematically.
>>81231369
1. Was Morrison interested in working on the Batman movies?
2. Explained by shard theory, part of the plan.
3. Johns didn't write Convergence
4. Nothing to do with Morrison; possibly used to save us from John instead of Hal (which would be much worse)
5. This one is legit
>>81209400
I liked golden age doofus Steve
>Morrison makes Steve Trevor interesting
absolute madman
>>81231689
The last one is just because Johns wants to write Shazam himself and Morrison isn't doing monthlies anymore
