Is Superman really all that out of touch with modern comic book readers and cartoon watchers?
Is the idea of someone doing the right thing simply because it's the right thing to do so farfetched?
>>81045562
Being right and perfect is for fags and queers.
Superman needs to be GRITTY and REALISTIC. He needs to burn people's arms off, drink alcohol, destroy property, swear, punch/maim people, have sex with random women, and threaten to kill people. How else are people to take Superman/ClarkKent seriously???!!!!
>>81045562
Degenerates feel bad that they're trash, so they try to talk down on anyone, real or fictional, who is better.
Superman isn't realistic because he doesn't smoke weed!!!
>>81045562
Yeah
people want characters like Harley Quinn and Deadpool who would randomly kill a guy for no reason and then make a hilarious pun about it
>>81045562
Are you asking why people don't like him?
>>81045562
No, dumbass.
Lots of modern comic book readers dig Superman. He has literally an entire fanbase.
But no you're talking about capeshit. The reason Superman hasn't been successful in film since the Donner era is because every movie put out since then has been really bad or poorly executed. It has nothing to do with audiences or Superman himself, but the corporation and talent handling the IP.
>>81046456
This. Superman could be made into a fucking great movie, the property just hasn't been put in the right hands.
If anything, the huge public backlash over Man of Steel (it wasn't just /co/ bitching) shows how much Superman means to people.
>>81045562
>Is the idea of someone doing the right thing simply because it's the right thing to do so farfetched?
That's like 90% of the superheroes, so i assume that's not the issue.
>>81046456
>>81046502
Seriously. The people in charge of Superman on the screen keep giving him over to people who DON'T KNOW HOW SUPERMAN WORKS
>>81045562
Kinda, the normalfags don't like this Paladin figure anymore, they see it unreal because they can't understand the concept of the superheros; they must have flaws or otherwise is a dumb idea.
>>81046002
>>81046024
People like Cap because he is a pure creature.
Superman just has people who don't get him writing him.
>>81046750
Wearing your heart on your sleeve like Superman does, is a flaw, he gets manipulated because of it all the time.
Superman is out of touch because Superman fans desperately want him to be. If they couldn't lord over how much they love him over regular people, what would the point even be?
>>81046800
Are you implying that there have been no great Superman stories?
>>81045562
He's overpowered so he's boring and unrelatable
>>81046592
This. Most people are absolutely down for some straight up superheroic shit, it's DC/WB that aren't interested in it.
Are you saying people want Superman to be better than regular people? That's just silly.
Man, I just want one movie to have Superman bring someone back from desperation. Talk them down from suicide, something.
>>81046873
Have Waid or Morrison or someone write a script and a decent director that won't deviate from it.
GOAT Superman film.
>>81046873
A compelling Superman? Dream big, Anon.
![SupermanAdventures36-22[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/fWxmfmQ.jpg "SupermanAdventures36-22[1].jpg")
>>81046839
I know you're just kidding, but people who genuinely think this piss me off, especially if they're comparing him to Batman. All they do is look at the powers and think "Superman isn't realistic, but Batman could actually exist," but it's pretty much the complete opposite if you actually look at more than what they can do. Superman is literally a midwestern farm boy, raised by to wholesome, loving parents. Batman is a multibillionaire orphan. One is a bit more relatable than
I do love both characters, and they certainly have their respective places in DC, but it's much more realistic to think that I could spontaneously gaining super strength/speed, heat/x-ray vision, flight, etc. powers, as opposed to suddenly inheriting billions of dollars and spending over a decade training my mind and body to the point of becoming one of the smartest and most physically capable people on the planet for the sole purpose of fighting crime while dressed as a bat.
>>81046994
>Superman is literally a midwestern farm boy,
Who is often written and percieved to be morally perfect.
>Batman is a multibillionaire orphan.
Who us often written and percieve to be morally imperfect.
Are people generally morally perfect or imperfect? Is Mr. A a relatable character?
At this point I would even tolerate Superman getting a kitten out of a tree to show no problem too small, no life too unimportant for Superman.
>>81047017
Superman is an ideal. His conflict revolves around maintaining that ideal when it's challenged. While the average person is not morally perfect, the average person is morally good and that's how they can relate to Superman because Superman is good at its best.
>>81047067
>average person is morally good
people actually believe this?
>>81047082
Most people aren't edgy children like you are.
>>81045866
Is this all by Max Landis?
I recognize the Jock art from his AoS comic. Is the rest from American Alien?
>>81047082
If the average person was evil, how would you keep a society intact?
>>81047017
>Morally perfect
More interesting for me to read about desu senpai
I'm surrounded by shitty failures who could be decent people and make positive changes but just fail to do so
When everyone is flawed and boring, the guys who do always do their best in the face of trouble are the unique and interesting ones
Also >relatability
Spider-Man is barely fucking relatable and peopel project a shitton onto him just because he was a nerd, but he was always far more daring, confident, and morally just than the average person
Also fucking supermodels
Relatability doesn't mean shit, otherwise nobody would like Silver Surfer
>>81047067
>While the average person is not morally perfect, the average person is morally good and that's how they can relate to Superman
If people can relate to Superman because of this, why do people say so often that they cannot relate to Superman?
It's no coincidence that the most popular versions of the character in recent times have made him a flawed human trying his hardest to good rather than this "ideal" fans keep pushing.
Can we just have a supes appreciation thread?
>>81047092
but anon, he's intelligent, nihilistic, and has a wicked sense of humor
>>81047017
But thats wrong. Superman isn't mortally perfect, he's just the idea that absolute power does not corrupt absolutely (despite all the EVIL SUPERMAN stories may suggest) Superman is the strongest hero, but he isn't arrogant, he doesn't make bank off his powers, he doesn't flaunt them. He uses them for good, no hidden agendas, no under the table deals, hes just good.
I don't understand why people think relating to a character or not makes them bad. You don't read stories about a super powered alien to relate to him, you read it because that stuff doesn't happen in real life.
Not to mention no person in the world can relate to Batman. He is the only son of an extremely wealthy business man, and both his parents are shot dead (why he father doesn't have a body guard, being so filthy stinking rich, I'll never know) so this child with no family is now solely in control of the RIDICULOUS sums of money, rather than some long distance relative, or even the executives of Wayne Enterprises, and to cope with his loss he devotes his whole life to becoming the physical peak of a human and the worlds greatest detective, and he fights colorful costumed villains who do horrible things. Batman is not relatable in the least, even if he is morally imperfect, hes the same thing as Superman, only a darker shade.
>>81047101
people looking out for their self-interest doesn't equate to evil. society is way too complex for you to say it 'functions' well because people are 'good'.
>>81047017
Isn't Batman pretty often written as morally perfect as well, though?
>>81047117
I can't believe superman spends all night destroying planes
>>81047082
Yes, it's why you don't see people just walk up to old ladies on a daily basis and bludgeon their head in. Humans are social animals, were primates, its in our nature to not be colossal assholes to each other, since we need each other to survive against nature.
You can only relate to some very basic traits of any fictional character or slightly relate based on some developments they have.
>>81047144
Planes are for fucking nerds.
>>81047140
Sometimes, yes. But the general perception is that he makes mistakes and characters call him out on making stupid decisions. The most popular versions have had him with clear character flaws and weaknesses.
>>81047109
Yet common criticisms of his contemporary portrayal revolve around him not being the Superman that rescues the cat from the tree or tells someone who is sad they have a life worth living.
>>81047109
>It's no coincidence that the most popular versions of the character in recent times have made him a flawed human trying his hardest to good rather than this "ideal" fans keep pushing.
But Superman isn't a human. Hes an alien. A super powerful alien who struggles with being the ideal hero as the world sees him, while still enjoying being a good guy instead of hating it for being his whole image. Oh hey look at that, a hero who has issues without being brooding and gritty!
>moral perfection exists
it's the supefags who are out of touch with reality.
IM OUT.
>>81047109
But thats wrong, pretty much everyone complains that recent times hes portrayed as dark and gritty and brooding, rather than bright, red underwear saving people with a sparkling smile.
>>81047129
>I don't understand why people think relating to a character or not makes them bad.
Why do people like the OT more than the Prequels, even people who grew up when the prequels were coming out? A big part of it is probably the characters. In both series you are seeing laser guns and swords, but in the OT the audience actually cares about the characters doing the action. Relatability is a huge part of that, but for whatever reason Superman fans try to downplay it as a relevant factor.
/co/ isn't a good metric because it is a part of 4chan and we do suck as people here. Just look at how many people confuse dark, edgy, and cynical assholes for "realism".
>>81047162
That's Morrisonfags exclusively, who routinely complain about another hugely popular Superman portrayal in STAS and JLU where again Superman was a flawed person.
>>81046002
Sounds about right.
>>81047102
Spidey also often deals with wanting to give in, juggling his work life with his civilian life, trying to keep a semblance of normality when fate seems to conspire against him... No super-speed or vast wealth to cover for logistics. I mean, nerd shit, too, but he's kinda had more relatability than that going for him.
>>81047216
>>81047160
In fact, too much so.
How many times has Bruce had to learn he can't go it it alone and he shouldn't push away his friends and family?
>>81047228
>>81045562
Murricans are too pessimistic to ever like genuine good guy superheroes (at least after the 1950s)
Everything's gotta be edgy and filled with gun violence to appeal to the masses nowadays.
>>81047241
>>81047198
Then why do people like ASS or birthright more than Earth one or American Alien?
>>81047204
Comic fans in general aren't a good metric.
How many comic fans are selfish, childish, rude pieces of shit while idolizing superheroes?
>>81047234
This. Batman has that problem too fucking much. It's retarded that a character who always relies in help from Jim Gordon, several sidekicks, Alfred, other superheroes, etc ever became characterized as a guy who saw himself as better than they are or a douchebag who treats them like shit just to make him seem "cooler" or more mature.
>>81047252
>>81047139
>society is way too complex for you to say it 'functions' well because people are 'good'.
On the contrary, precisely because the society is complex we can say it functions at fucking all because people are good.
Examples of societies where self-interest is currently dominant are what we call "failed states".
>>81047261
Yeah but we have the general "Everyone is a bag of dicks on 4chan" thing on top of the comic book fan thing. There's probably nothing approaching an emotionally healthy contributing member of society to be found here.
>>81047261
As it was originally written, I don't think it was intended to make him cooler. It was a legitimate character flaw, but cape writing turned it into a "strength" because superhero fans in general dislike it when characters have weaknesses.
For All Seasons is great. Go read it if you haven't.
Superhero comics and most of fictional characters are generally less dimensional than real people. But hurr durr Superman isn't normal.
>>81046994
People seem to judge a character based on what he can do, not on the character itself
>>81047283
I'm fan with Batman having issues relating to or showing warmth to Dick or Clark occasionally, but I mean "I DON'T NEED HELP EVEN THOUGH I ADOPTED THIRTY OF YOU" is fucking retarded
>>81047259
I didn't say it was the only factor. Just a huge part of it. ASS is well written and manages to make its specific portrayal of Superman work. If that is generalizable to the character in general (or if it's the only valid portrayal as most Morrisonfags would insist) is another question.
>>81046002
But you talk down on them.
What truly makes you better? You say so?
No, that's why MoS and BvS aren't well-received.
Because they aren't like comics Superman AT ALL yet people here will still try to defend them for some reason
>>81047194
Yeah, this is just true and people arguing as if people wanting anything less than that are demanding grim 'n edgy city are deluding themselves.
>>81045866
But drinking, swearing, having sex with random women and just threatening to kill people doesn't prevent him from doing the right thing.
And burning an arm or two off might also be helpful in the long run.
What you are talking about is a saint gary stu, but that's exactly what Superman is NOT and should never be. That's exactly the thing that makes him interesting.
What I would like to see though, speaking about doing the right thing - what about someone who is omniscient, past, present and future and thus always knows what's right - compared to Superman who doesn't know all facts and thus can't make an objective decision - how would such a person fare to make the right decision, knowing about the myriads of implications and basically always just choosing a lesse evil?
>>81047264
Because people are easily manipulated, not because they are good. People are generally douchebags.
The biggest example of that is Russia, and second is Amerifatistan.
>>81047259
At this rate, I'd venture to say it probably has a lot to do with the fact the latter 2 works you mentioned depict Superman as no different than Batman. He's sulky, broody and generally too angsty to be likeable.
Most people cite ASS as the perfect Supes but I'd actually say that if you wanted a relatable Superman, read Morrison's Action Comics run from the New 52. About the only Superman related work to come from that that's actually worth a damn. I'll check this thread later, anon but I'm out. I'll write some more later.
>>81047284
i love how humble and innocent superman was portrayed in this book
>>81047198
People have loved Superman for decades without having to relate to Superman. Theres a difference between Star Wars and Superman. Star Wars is about Luke's journey, his growth, you follow along with his experiences and see him become a jedi and the hero of the galaxy, so relating to him makes you connect more with his journey. The story of Superman isn't about his growth as a person or seeing him develop into a hero, it's about the hero Superman against the forces of evil. It's about an icon of good and justice standing up for even the smallest man and willing to go out of his way to help everyone he possibly can. You don't need to relate to Superman, because Superman is more than just a person, more than just a hero, he's a symbol.
>>81046024
One is villain and the other was never a hero to begin with cause he's a mercenary and people would rather have non-grim dark Jesus symmetry heroes like Spidey, Cap, GOTG etc
I like Superman.
And like everyone else in these thread has stated, it's really an issue with people judging Supes by his power rather than his character.
Honestly reading his meetings with Hitman made me appreciate him all the more.
>>81047351
Symbols are great for selling lunchboxes but they rarely make for compelling characters.
>>81047351
>Theres a difference between Star Wars and Superman.
Don't be an asshole. Everyone knows that everything is exactly identical.
>>81045562
You stupid idiot they changed him from "truth, Justice, and the American way" to some cheap fake ass Jesus fuck head. PC ruined the fuck out of him.
>>81047341
>What you are talking about is a saint gary stu, but that's exactly what Superman is NOT and should never be.
Nigga even when he IS that he isn't that.
>>81047102
I would argue silver surfer can be relatable.
Hes a lonely motherfucker at the whims of a shitty boss
>>81046024
We at the network want a Superman with attitude. He's edgy, he's in your face.
You the expression 'let's get busy'? Well this is a Supermna who get's BIZ-AY!
>>81047366
>Honestly reading his meetings with Hitman made me appreciate him all the more.
The Hitman stuff is a great example. That initial issue is all about Superman's failure. He did not manage to save someone, so he feels like he let down thst person, himself, the entire world. It takes someone with a very different persective to snap him out of it.
Almost nobody can relate to failing to rescue an astronaut and having that death on their concience. But they can probably relate to failing at something incredibly important and having difficulty letting go of the guilt.
>>81047416
>>81047422
>>81047428
>>81047129
>no one can relate to batman
You dont have to actually BE the character in order to relate.
Any kid who had a parent or parents die on them could relate
>>81047422
>>81047416
>>81047384
>>81047431
I think the death count thing honestly was the cheapest way to make Supes a sympathetic character. I mean I like Superman, but the whole thing just seems so contrived.
>>81047351
Because people now are less creative. That's why they need characters to have their same skin colour and impairments to be relateable or appealing.
>>81047431
But is this counting natural deaths as well?
>>81047432
And anyone who has grown up with loving parents who taught them to do good even when it's hard can relate to Superman.
>>81045562
You are not supposed to relate to superman. You never were. Superman is the perfect man and we S imperfect mortals cannot relate.
Clark Kent, now there is a real gent. Him you can relate to.
>>81047482
You know, no matter how many times I see it, whenever I see a group shot of super heroes that isn't in a situation where they are beaten and bloody and fighting some villains, it's always really silly looking, like the heroes at a funeral in all their costumes. Just grown adults wearing brightly colored capes and costumes in big groups.
>>81047483
Absolutely, as long as the writing emphasizes he is choosing to do good as best he can the way a person chooses to do good "but more", rather than being an ideal moral paragon. This includes making mistakes.
Superman isn't inherently unrelateable. His fans just want him to be an ideal instead of a character.
>>81047515
>THE GUY'S A ONE-MAN ARMY, NAVY AND AIR FORCE!
>>81047455
>I mean I like Superman, but the whole thing just seems so contrived.
Anon, the main reason I'm up at 5 in the morning is because I have terrible nightmares caused by survivor's guilt from outliving a younger sibling.
So when I see Superman kept up at night for the same reason, hell yes I can relate. I don't find it contrived at all. I envy you for thinking it cheap.
>>81047455
I think it would have been a lot better if the death count only covered Metropolis. I get Superman can travel the world in seconds and helps people all over the world, but Metropolis is his stomping ground, so it would make sense he would keep a death tally of all the people in his city he couldn't help, and would probably hit a bit harder (even if it's still cheap and cheesy) to see Superman lamenting over deaths he couldn't prevent in his own backyard.
>>81045866
What happened in bottom right right story?
>>81047528
Isn't that kid a little young to be watching Futurama?
>>81047524
>Yes thank you Johnson we didn't realize that.
>>81047460
Given some of the ages I'd have to assume so.
Then again Boston Brand is on that list.
>>81047320
So basically people like better written stories.
>>81047541
She has cancer. Kids with cancer can watch whatever they want and stay up as late as they want. What do they care? It's not like they're gonna stunt their growth.
>>81047535
>>81047455
I wonder, does Superman have some kind of super conscience?
I mean, a regular person brooding over all these deaths would go insane in a short time.
That's why I actually consciously don't care about african niggers, sandpeople, pakistanis and south eastern asian kids in sweatshops, because it would drive me crazy knowing that all these people are dying because of other shitty and I can't do anything about it.
>>81047533
Superman's guilt is not derived from being a survivor. It's simply that he can't save everyone, and that even the people he does save, may very well still die.
>>81046834
I think he means the movies..
>>81047569
...and then Superman went on to laser-lobotomize a twelve year old boy.
>>81047557
I see this page a ton, but I have never once heard an explanation for what the hell that thing is and why everyone is dressed like Superman.
>>81047572
Not to go on a tangent but,
Given the abundance of super people, I honestly find it surprising that there exists such things as sweatshops, child soldiers, and just war in general, in comicbookland.
As a direct response though, he probably just accepts it. Not letting it get in the way of his attempts at improving the world.
>>81047572
Well thats kind of the point I think. Superman CAN do something about it, even if it would be extremely difficult to pull off, and in some cases he just can't pull it off, but still had the potential to do something. Thats why he would brood over all that stuff, where as normal people honestly can't do much to help people elsewhere unless they dedicate their lives to doing it, so most people don't worry about it too much beyond "Oh that sucks." Superman thinks "I could have been there, a second quicker, a moment faster, I could have saved someone, anyone else."
>>81047597
Supermen from the future who came back to the past to save the universe.
>>81047560
Yes, and a large aspect of a well written story is relatable characters.
>>81045866
I don't think these are edgy or gritty, in context. I am enjoying American Alien.
>>81047597
All star superman
Go read it or go away
>>81047592
I can't remember. Did they explain in universe (for both DC and Marvel) why literally no hero stopped 9-11? And why it was any more of a big deal in-universe than a regular Tuesday where whole city blocks are leveled by some super villain?
>>81047109
The criticism against Superman's relatability is more on his powers rather than his morality.
>>81047578
I feel like I could've saved the person I mourn.
It's an entirely illogical feeling, I know that there's shit all I could've done to cure pneumonia and complications from surgery. Doesn't actually help. Because that's just how guilt of this nature works. You know in your head that you can't do anything about it, but in your heart there's this vice grip that squeezes you the second you let your guard down and you just break down.
So like I said, I don't think it's unrealistic at all that someone like Superman would feel that. If I, a mere human can feel that over one person I was helpless to help, why wouldn't Superman, who CAN help infinitely more people, not have that feeling with equal or greater intensity for his failures?
It's an emotional response. It doesn't have to make strict logical sense.
>>81047557
better written superman story that man of steel, I always had a problem with how they killed pa kent in the man of murder movie
>>81047632
Oh okay that makes sense.
So what the fuck is that mess of mouths and limbs? And why is a bunch of chains apparently capable of stopping it when a bunch of Supermen can't just laser it?
>>81047263
His face is shooped in the top right, right?
>>81047216
>>81047228
>>81047241
>>81047252
>>81047263
Damn this book was so good
>>81047654
>So what the fuck is that mess of mouths and limbs? And why is a bunch of chains apparently capable of stopping it when a bunch of Supermen can't just laser it?
Chronovore. It eats time. It's not really a threat so much as a distraction here against Supes.
Seriously though, mate, read All-Star.
>>81047635
But Superman isn't relateable, anon. Then why is ASS considered a great story above stories with relateable characters like Iron man or Hulk.
>>81047642
Okay
>>81047144
Kek
>>81047626
>Superman thinks "I could have been there, a second quicker, a moment faster, I could have saved someone, anyone else."
I don't think you need superpowers to be tormented by "What if". "What if" is one of the scariest damn sentences in the English language. What if you had the courage to talk to that girl? What if you took that internship out of school instead?" "What if you were there when it happened?"
Anybody can easily drive themselves crazy with What If. No powers required.
>>81047611
Peace On Earth touched on this. It's great and every Superman fan should read it.
It boils down to the problem lying within the people. No one man can solve the world's problems, and we all need to work together if we want to make the world a better place.
>>81047681
I think this is what really exemplifies Superman. He's just a normal guy but with the features amplified. Even regrets.
>>81045562
Nah, writers just hang up on "Superman is just a strong guy and can flight" aspect. Flying and superstrength doesn't impress people anymore. Morrison has the right idea. Instead of punching his enemies through buildings Supers should fucking throw whole planets or even galaxies at them. Make Supes do something incredible.
>>81047611
>>81047687
If you haven't it's a must read.
>>81045562
No, Zach Snyder is out of touch with modern movies though.
>>81047672
Because many of those stories are also poorly written, and the stories that are well written do not have the stable of dedicated fanboys that Morrison's stories do. Another example of a well written story with a relatable Superman already mentioned in the thread is the crossover with Hitman.
>its a "degenerates on 4chan try to tell me which is morally superior" episode.
>>81047746
Morrison should really be given all the rights to the character
>>81047803
hes not stupid enough to want them
Just remember guys. Superman loves you.
I dunno man. I'd be alright with Superman if it was just "super strong guy who can fly and tries to help people", but then you suddenly get "and he's got laser vision and ice breath and can go nuclear etc. etc." and it's just...for what purpose?
Kingdom Come
>>81047914
Sometimes punching really really really hard isn't enough
Superman....
>>81045562
>Is Superman really all that out of touch with modern comic book readers
No. He's not a massive seller like Batman or Spider-Man but he's strong enough to carry multiple books
>Cartoon watchers
Who knows anymore? Action cartoons are all but dead
>>81047716
That's how Morrison approaches Superman
>>81045562
Do you want a real answer? It's because Superman is representative of lazy 30's comic book writing.
>Origin story is silly
"Oh dear, our planet is exploding! Let's put this baby in a space pod!'
>Daily life is silly
"I'm an absurdly buff guy working for a newspaper! I wear glasses so I don't look like Superman! My coworkers constantly meet Superman, but write it off as a coincidence! I also have an arctic crystal cave, just for fun! My dog is a superhero!"
>Superpower is just being really good at everything
I can fly! I'm invincible! Super strength! Eye lasers! Freezing breath!
>Only weakness is a major deus ex machina
What can defeat a perfect man? A magical rock! Everyone has it when they need it!
>Personality and moral compass are also perfect
Granted, some writers have handled this better than others. But classic Supes is perfect, always.
>No gimmick
Is Spiderman free of the sins listed above? Not most of them. But Spiderman has a gimmick; the spider thing, and to a lesser degree the student thing. It gives him some personality and distracts from the generic nature of capeshit. Superman is what you get if you strip a superhero of their gimmick. He's (quite literally) the barebones blueprint capeshit heroes are based on.
But the worst part, the absolute worst part, is that the writers won't retcon any of the stupid shit. They can't. It wouldn't be Superman anymore. It's the same reason more realistic Batmen still have giant caves under their mansions and that Spiderman can built a sophisticated web shooting device on a whim as a high schooler. Superman is bogged down by plot devices written lazily and without any expectation of a longrunning character in the early 20th century.
To summarize, Superman is a character written for children in 1938 who has been expertly shoehorned into entertainment aimed at 2016 people of every age. He doesn't fit perfectly because he can't fit perfectly.
>>81045562
Sort of. People (not all people, but enough people) can buy into it but you actually have to sell it properly to them.
No need for that for heroes that are closer to the current cynical zeitgeist.
However the biggest mistake, the one that a lot of current DC material (notably the movies) does, is to write him *for* the cynics. That's not going to work, there are characters better suited for that niche, and it's a disservice to Superman, who can be used fine as is, even if he doesn't have the largest following in the world anymore.
Superfags aren't helping mind you, the way they talk about people who don't like him would certainly be disapproved of by Superman.
>>81048379
I hope this cunt never writes a comic. You sound boring as fuck mate
>>81048444
There's nothing wrong with Superman being silly. Lots of wonderful characters live in silly universes. Just look at every Disney movie. Look at The Little Prince.
But Disney isn't trying to sell us a grimdark Winnie the Pooh. If they did, it would be at least partially a comedy because that's silly. There would be a heavy sense of irony to the project.
There is no sense of irony to Batman v Superman, and DC wonders why the reviews are terrible.
>>81046994
>a midwestern farm boy, raised by to wholesome, loving parents.
Modern people are urbanites from single parent homes. They can't really relate to this.
>>81048499
>Grimdark
This word has lost all meaning on /co/
>>81047101
Through mutual self-interest and a system of punishment enforced by the powerful
>>81048379
>this entire post
It's like someone heard second hand who superman is from someone who's only read a wikipedia article.
>>81045866
I don't see how the Deathstroke image is gritty. It honestly seems like the kind of light-hearted use of Supes' powers that could seem right at home in the pre-crisis Superman.
>>81048550
You sound like someone who's never stepped outside his own neighborhood
Why is so hard to accept that a "symbol of hope" is not as popular in times of plenitude like he was in times of war?
Superman is an ideal, a symbol not a character and people who don't look for said ideal or symbol simply will find it boring or even preachy now.
Anyways why Superman fans care so much about the general public not liking him as much as Batman?
>>81048655
It's more the blatant misrepresentation that pisses people off, nothing to do with popularity.
>>81048379
Superman didn't have most of his modern powers in the 30's. Reporting was/is his gimmick; he was initially socialist as fuck.
If I wanted to read a story about a perfect human running around saving people and moralising on the imperfection of man I'd read the bible.
>>81045866
>Crying about the Deathstroke part.
Starting to think you're the real edgelord anon.
>>81048767
There are no perfect humans in the bible, that's like the entire point of it
>>81047017
>Superman is literally a midwestern farm boy,
>Who is often written and percieved to be morally perfect.
Not that often really. Kingdom Come, it's up to Bats to save us from all this well meaning superheroing.
JLU someone hacked our big space gun so we're going to hand ourselves in? Don't be silly I'll just fix this by braking into a home/office of the person who thinks we did it and getting them to rethink things.
No Mans Land with no law and order in Gotham City how can we help? Go home and let me fix stuff Clark.
Batman may get called out on things but it's rare that he is shown to be wrong on the scale Superman can be.
>>81047330
What makes me better is I don't hate Superman because he stands for truth and justice
>>81048873
>>81049079
I am gonna screencap this.
>>81046024
>>81045562
Clearly not since Cap is so popular
>>81047234
>>81047261
The worst part is this is all down to Batman not being allowed to develop beyond the grumpy works himself too hard to take time to bond with his friends because then he wouldn't be the Batman they think people want.
>>81045562
It's very easy to confuse the "Right thing" with "the right thing for affluent white males".
>>81049418
>shitposting about Superman
>small town guy
>most famous villain is an evil businessman
>he's not doing what's right for anyone but rich white men!
>not like Batman or Tony Stark, they're men of the people!
As a modern comic book reader, I just don't even give a fuck anymore. Over the past 80 years every story has been written and re-written so many god damn times and it's impossible to keep track of it. Almost everything is forgettable and instead of trying to create new characters they just rehash stories or turn characters gay/female/muslim/black. This is the reason why cartoons are such better places for comic characters yet they just make shitty ones or cancel them too soon. Superman TAS, Justice League and JLU Supes are by far my favorite adaptation of him. Same for most of the other characters in those series too.
>>81047592
This is almost as bad as the way Marvel handled it.
>>81047330
What makes me better is that I constantly try to improve instead of bringing people down to my level.
>>81047539
>"Now, just stay on that ledge and don't fall down again"
>>81047401
I bet this was how MoS was conceived
>>81046456
>Lots of modern comic book readers dig Superman
Not according to the sales. You can argue fans aren't buying Superman comics because they're terrible but they become terrible in the first place for low sales
All I know is that black people really like Superman for whatever reason. I have various Superman shirts that I wear, twice have I been complimented when wearing them(Hey man, nice shirt.)both of those times the person issuing the compliment was black.
>>81046746
Honestly, it's becoming abundantly clear it's because the people in charge on Superman on the screen are the same people, or at least the people who worked for the fat-cats that made the post Donner movies and shit like Catwoman and Green Lantern happen, that are too controlling and thick headed to simply hand over the reins to more capable people killing it at the comic, animation or tv divisions.
The sort of people that claim to "know" Superman and Batman better than people that have read and even written the actual comics, that buy into the "Superman is boring" and "Batman not killing is retarded" memes because they know nothing about the actual source material, yet think they do. Because they watched their own movies.
>>81052477
> two black people liking my superman shirt means all black people like Superman
>>81047017
Batman is DC's cashcow, therefore he's always right even when he's wrong
>>81048181
>The Iron Giant Special Edition
>Superman's line is digitally altered to Batman for allowing today children to relate to
>>81048220
Superman's comics sell like shit but DC is more interested on movies and not losing the rights to Shuster and Siegel's heirs. Actual comics is the less relevant matter on the comic industry
>>81052655
>Batman
>Not Iron-Man
Or even Thor at this point.
>>81047592
based Alex Ross
>>81052741
Iron Man and Thor are properties of Disney/Marvel
>>81045562
Only by casuals
>>81047648
Because I don't think the readership would have appreciated it at the time. They needed something they could connect with in the now, not some in-universe logic dealing with how a real life tragedy could have happened different in a superpowered universe.
>>81049941
I'm still baffled by it.
Why not just have Kim Yong-il there as well?
>>81052530
I had heard that black people liked Superman before hand, those two instances are merely confirmation.
>>81052769
The conglomerate that will probably buy out WB/DC in a few years the way things are going.
>>81047363
>One is villain
Not if you ask her tumblr following.
HARLEY IS A GOOD GIRL
SHE DINDU NUFFIN'
IT'S ALL THE PATRIARCHY'S FAULT
>>81047234
The reason he wants to do it alone, despite being unable to, is that he cares too much about others. He doesn't want anyone else in danger even if it means making it more dangerous for him.
>>81046592
Cap America has patriotism and a complete belief in his values. Spider-Man sees it as a responsabilitybecause of what he can do. Batman is doing it because vengeance and or it's his own personnal mission.
Supes is different in that he can do everything. If he wanted, he could take control of the world. But he doesn't, and well-written it shouldn't be because he feels like he has to, or because he wants to fight crime, but simply because doing the right thing is what makes the most sense for him.
It's subtle, but there's a difference between him and most characters.
>>81046002
I bet Superman has tried weed in his youth. He's not above that. It wouldn't have worked on him, though, so it's useless to him.
Besides, all that miniature vision and hearing, him seeing how the fundamental forces are yoked by thought alone, that's practically like being on LSD all the time.
>>81045562
People often love characters who do the right thing to do simply because it's right. In fact, the core of many anti-heroes that makes them likeable is that, despite their tough exterior, they will ultimately, when push comes to shove, do the right thing.
You're misunderstanding why people feel disengaged from Superman. They feel disengaged from him because he's mostly flawless. It's not that he always wants to save the day, it's that he always CAN save the day.
We're at a point right now where cynicism trumps heroism, but doesn't devalue it. We still applaud people that want to save the day, we just don't feel like they always can.
Superman always can. He has a power for every situation and, if he doesn't, he finds a wacky way of using what he was to turn things around. People like their heroes to be vulnerable, and flawed, and real, even if they are ultimately good people that simply want to do what's right, and they want them to face true adversity. Superman does not 'feel' that way. You always know Superman will make it, you always know Superman will save the day, and you always know he'll do it without really having to compromise anything, because he's Superman.
>>81049941
Yes championing first responders is such a horrible thing to do.
>>81045866
You're a stupid faggot anon
>>81047375
That's a far stretch away from Zack "maybe you should have let this bus full of kids drown, son" Snyder's Pa Kent.
>>81053451
Yeah, but that has only been true for Silver Age Superman. Which, although he's awesome, is sadly the Superman that is firmly engraved in normies minds, no matter how the comics have differed from that for many many years now.
>>81053240
Max Landis is a smarmy little cock.
But that video he posted awhile back about Man of Steel shows a great understanding of Superman's character.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw_GlYve_Lg
>>81053602
To be honest, even many modern Superman portrayals feel lacking in terms of adversity.
Why? Simply because he's Superman.
Imagining Superman (not Superman in your designated bad timeline or whatever) really failing catastrophically or facing true adversity or having tangible character flaws is... difficult. He's Superman. He's above and beyond.
Even someone like me, that has read a lot of Supes stuff, has a nagging voice in the back of my head when reading stories involving him, basically saying "Eh, it doesn't really matter how bad it seems, Superman's there, he'll be fine and everything will be worked out. He's Superman."
>>81053647
Ha! His reasons for hating Spider-Man is why I love him.
>>81053733
>>81052849
> Dr.Doom crying for innocents
Okay, did I miss something?
>>81046502
You mean how much Christopher Reeve meant to people. People wanted to see a Christopher Reeve movie, not a Superman one.
>>81053966
9/11 BENVER FERGOT :-DDD
>>81045866
Nobody is going to read your shitty book Max
>>81047651
Not to cheapen your experience or anything, but feeling bad about not being perfect *enough* isn't actually a character flaw that makes someone not a Mary Sue. To the contrary, it makes him MORE perfect by emphasizing what a "good person" he is.
Like, Tony Stark being an alcoholic womanizer is a character flaw. Batman being a paranoid bitter cynic who pushes the people who're close to him away by acting like a jerk to them is a character flaw. Hal Jordan being a selfish adrenaline junkie who likes to show off but is afraid of attachments because they restrict his personal freedom is a character flaw. Spider-Man constantly wishing he could quit because he'd rather have a life than help people but not quitting because he can't handle the guilt is a character flaw.
When written well, Clark Kent HAS valid character flaws.
But when "I wish I could save everybody but I can't" is the ONLY one writers keep focusing on, THAT's when he becomes the one-dimensional boyscout that haters accuse him of being.
>>81054152
He has no other flaws, stop lying to yourself.
The first Superman movie with Christopher Reeve is ok for its time, but jesus christ, people that defend Superman 2, no matter the cut, have mental problems. The amount of bullshit they pull out of their asses, the powers they simply come up with...
>>81047648
DC didn't HAVE a 9/11
or at least, they never acknowledged it happening in any way, shape, or form.
>>81054228
Thank you for demonstrating a symptom of exactly what I'm talking about.
>>81054269
Yeah since New York doesn't exist. Metropolis and Gotham embody its good and bad stereotypes.
I think Our Worlds at War was it. Lots of civilians got killed so Superman started wearing black in his logo.
>>81054295
>When written well, Clark Kent has valid character flaws
>>81054251
That was an accurate depiction of the way Superman was written in the silver age when the movie came out.
The actual problem is that we haven't had a Superman movie since the Crisis that was about Post-Crisis Superman.
MoS was supposed to be that and instead we got something else entirely because, y'know, Snyder. Motherfuckers just HAVE to be "auteurs" and fix what ain't broken.
>>81054322
New York does exist, Kyle Rayner and Wonder Woman have both lived there for brief periods. Metropolis and Gotham are thematically based on it but their actual physical locations are in Delaware and Jersey.
It's just that no planes ever hit any towers 'cause, y'know, the entire political landscape is different in the DCU.
>>81054351
The Reeve films were Silver Age-oriented but they coincided with the Bronze Age.
>>81054413
Alright then. Odd that one New York is a hotbed for superhero stuff while another is perfectly mundane.
I think what superman need is a moment of earnestly helping an innocent. Something like that one part that gets posted here a bit where he waits with a woman who is thinking of committing suicide. He opens up to her. Is willing to wait right there and let her think. No jesus motive, no divine morality, just one person who's willing to be there for someone else in their time of need. Superman movies need something like that. Less imagery and more the the basic goodness of man stuff. but that's just me.
>>81054413
That and Superman would have stopped any planes.
>T-Thanks Superman.
>No problem citizen, maybe next time don't text and fly.
>>81054466
Marvel NY is just supervillain central because Stan liked to write about familiar neighborhoods.
DC cities usually have reasons for why they are the way they are, like Metropolis supervillains were all either created by Lex Luthor's superscience or came specifically to fight Supes.
>>81054152
> boyscout
I like Superman being a boyscout. Why we cannot have a legit pure good character?
Fuck the haters.
>>81047538
It's American Alien issue 1. Clark's powers have just started flaring up, and he feels like a freak and a monster because he has no idea what he's doing or how to control his powers. He started floating by accident at a drive-in movie, when he got back down he ran into the bathroom, got mad and punched the mirror.
On the drive home, Pa Kent gives him a talking-to about how being mad or upset isn't an excuse for destruction.
>>81047241
He looks so cute with his tiny arms, fat hands, retarded face and little bulge.
>>81045562
>retardedly powerful in a way that doesn't even make sense
>"no, but it's the fact that he is a nice guy that doesn't make sense"
Edgy.
Superman, and what he stands for is a victim of a world corrupted by cynicism, and greed at the core of their upbringing. These people simply cannot fathom that people wanting to do good for people just because seems out of their mental spectrum. So they reject him, and call him a gary stu. Soon as I hear those two words. I block out all criticism about him, because they simply do not get him.
It's not doing the right thing that's the problem. It's that when you have a character who's morally righteous fighting black and white evil characters who want to destroy the world, there's no source of interesting conflict. It's just a comic book movie about someone punching bad guys.
And people don't know how to make those. Anymore.
>>81054558
Because you're confusing the idealized good-guy superhero of pop-culture, codified when Captain Marvel was the most popular hero, with the character of Superman, who was never intended to be that and wasn't until the confusion took root.
>>81047458
I only hear white people spew this, unless you're referring to those same people. I can relate to a character just fine based on their actions and backstory and really don't have a say in the matter. Either I find someone with a personality I can relate to, or I don't. Meanwhile, white people don't have that dilemma and in fact shit themselves when they don't have a white character they can 'relate' to.
Bring back my cute and sarcastic mascots, at least there I can avoid that race bullshit when it comes to humans.
in my opinion, the problem that people think he is perfect, hell they make him jesus in movies anymore. but he's not. he's never been. he wasn't sent here to save us, but to save him. clark chooses to become superman not out of some destined fact but he is just a great guy. if he had no powers he would still be out there doing charity work, writing investigate articles on corruption and injustice, holding the door open for other people. but he is faster than a speeding bullet, so he just goes bigger. the problem isn't that he's too powerful, it's that some people seem to think someone can't just be a good person.
>>81047259
Birthright as a take is more close to the humanizing "look, he's just a regular guy, he went to college, he cares about his job, he's not just an alien pretending to fit in" vein of AA rather than the big ideas, "reveling in this mythological figure come to life" thing of All-Star.
And honestly, AA is pretty decent. People just meme against Landis because as a video personality he has a kind of anti-charisma.
Earth One stands out from the rest because it's just badly written, not for any broad, philosophical reason about "what Superman should be like", but because it's just plain bad. The plot and dialogue are retarded apropos of nothing else than being retarded.
>>81054667
I gotta say for all the hate people here give Landis I've been enjoying his american alien books. He's really nailed the kents for me and he's got how I'd picture a young clark trying to figure his way in the world. He really gets Superman as the good person from a small town doing their best to help where they can. I haven't read any of his other stuff but this has been good.
>>81047460
There's an average of 2 deaths per seconds in reality, and there's 86400 seconds per day, so i guess so.
>>81054825
Fucking this. I really don't like the Insurmountable ideal aspect that people put on superman. Because I don't think he'd ever want to be seen that way. It's not his powers that make him super but what he chooses to do with them. If you're willing to do your best to help others then in the eyes of superman you guys are basically doing the same thing only he's just been blessed with more ways to help others.
Are you people really this adamant about people not liking a multibillion dollar fictional franchise character that has always and continues to make money for nearly a century?
Even if Superman ceased to exist to tomorrow, would that mean that his fans would no longer have watched his movies, shows, and read his comics?
For goodness sake, quit being such babies.
>>81045562
>Is the idea of someone doing the right thing simply because it's the right thing to do so farfetched?
But I love Spider-Man?
Superman just hasn't had a decent writer behind the wheels is all.
>>81053429
What what about space weed empowered by cosmic rays?
>>81054858
That one end-of-issue page with the Kent's keepsakes from up til Clark landed was great. It's as scattered as you would imagine such a collection would be, but there's a clear progression and the little letters are super sweet.
>>81046994
Not to mention the fact that batmans feats are way more unrealistic than Supermans.
>>81055027
It's more a cry against the cynical culture that leads to people not liking Superman
>>81053733
>
Even someone like me, that has read a lot of Supes stuff, has a nagging voice in the back of my head when reading stories involving him, basically saying "Eh, it doesn't really matter how bad it seems, Superman's there, he'll be fine and everything will be worked out. He's Superman."
That's every A-List hero or villain. At least Superman was beaten to death and recently depowered.
>>81055483
Doesn't Peter still have Slott as a writer? Superman had Alan Moore, Geoff Johns, and Grant Morrison.
