I know these orcs are probably the most accurate in terms of size. Considering that the plot point of tiny little hobbits disguised as orcs exist in the first, orcs pretty much have to be rather tiny creatures in the first place.
It's just that, with orcs typically being depicted big monsters it's hard to take these tiny orcs seriously. I mean what are they going to accomplish in a one on one fight with men? Bite the knee?
>>81029779
WHERE
THERE'S
A WHIP
>>81029779
>I mean what are they going to accomplish in a one on one fight with men? Bite the knee?
You forget they had the Nazgul. The forces of Mordor didn't really make much progress against the men of Gondor and overrun Ithillien until the Nazgul arrived on the field.
>>81029779
short but scrappy. goblins are nasty, man. it's like how you wouldnt wanna go into a room with a scrappy cat. sure it's 10 pounds but it will destroy you
Canonically, there are many breeds of orcs all of different sizes
Also the words goblin and orc are completely interchangeable
>>81030063
Also these are orcs. They didn't really have standards.
I mean sure an idiot with a sword isn't a real threat. But that is ONE inbred idiot. Imagine going into battle against a wave of living, inbred, foul smelling, blood thristy, little up to your CROTCH sized bastards covered in sharp edges who all want to just murder YOU. No one else but YOU and THEN the person behind you.
Take down 5 out of 90 that are targetting just you and you earn your bread for the first shift.
>>81030151
Yep
I imagine the smaller orcs to work like zerglings in battle.
>>81030151
Also, on an slightly unrelated note. I like that there are numerous dialects of Blackspeach. Though it's kinda sad the movies never showed or implied that the group that had Merry and Pippin had frequent skirmishes simply because they couldn't talk to eachother very well. As they were mad up of Uruks, Morgul and Moria Orcs.
>>81029779
In terms of being able to fight one on one with a man, thats not what orcs are for. Thats the Uruk Hai, smaller trolls, and only the largest of the largest orcs and goblins.
The point of orcs and goblins is to be able to zerg rush the men and elves with overwhelming numbers of stupid expendable soldiers who can drive the men into chaos while the Uruk Hai, Trolls, Nazgul etc. do all the real work
>>81030700
>while the Uruk Hai, Trolls, Nazgul etc. do all the real work
I agree with this except in pertaining to the Nazgul. Unless you mean in a battle commander sense. Because on the field, they were more or less there to inspire terror in their opponents. This is why the Orcs had it mostly easy up until Pelennor Fields.
goblin, orc, mordor black uruk and saruman fighting uruks.
the first orcs were twisted warped elvs and the urks were thought to be a blended form of orc and men.
>>81031512
I know it was never outright stated, but am I alone is thinking Saruman had been breeding his Uruks for like decades under Orthanc?
Like sending orcs out to villages. Then bring huma women to Isengard to be breeding stock and birth out his Uruk-hai all in secret?
>>81031614
Yep, that's pretty much what's implied
>>81031882
Ah. Okay. I only ask because I know a few folks who are under the impression he pretty much created his army over night out of the orcs and the trees and mud n' shit.
>>81029779
There are a lot of different species of orcs in the book.
The orcs from Moria looked nothing like the orcs of Mordor or the ones under Sauron. Faramir even think that Gollum is some kind of new type of orc specie made to spy.
>>81031371
The Nazgul instilled supernatural terror in both their enemies and their own troops. This would cause the enemy ranks to lose morale and break, while the terrified orcs would be driven on and fight more fiercely, because they were more terrified of the punishment waiting behind them than they were of the swords of the men ahead of them.
>>81029779
Orcs come in all sizes but the baseline is usually "small," probably about a little bigger than a dwarf. They tend to be weak, cowardly and mean and only fight for Sauron because of some ancient racial pact. So, they kind of suck but there are a lot of them and as long as you have someone mean enough to bully them into service their really low maintenance.
The Uruks are orcs that are basically on par with normal men but also happen to be fanatically loyal to the cause. If they weren't there would be chance of betrayal thus making them useless.
They are specialists and commanders/bullies. However there are rarely enough of them to make a fighting force of just Uruks.
These guys are what we commonly think of when we think of orcs.
Uruk Hai are relatively new in LotR but fill similar roles. They have the benefit of being able to see in day-light and have a culture distinct from most orcs. The biggest benefit of them is that a lot of them can be produced making for full Uruk forces.
Orcs are essentially a mass produced fighting force, poor quality but you can get a lot of them for cheap. They are the backbone of Saurons and end up doing most of the fighting and dying.
As an army they're good just because there are a lot of them. They are also good for night-time raids since they can see in the dark. However in skirmishes where they don't have surprise or numbers on their side they will die pretty fast.
>>81031614
Wasn't the Uruk Hais human women being raped by orcs? In the movie they were born from the ground through magic or something
>>81032348
Well, in the movies they do outright imply he bred his uruks through magic. In the books uruks first appeared decades before the events of the film, when the Nazgul took Minas Ithil and turned it into Minas Morgul. There it's implied Sauron first started breeding uruks out of human stock, and Saruman later refined the process to make his half-orc spies.
>>81032348
Saruman had been looking for the ring long before even Bilbo found it. Dude had been preparing for a while.
A reminder that Sauron got beat up by a dog.
>>81032525
There are also Orcs descendent of Maiar.
They are way bigger than normal Orcs, much more inteligent and live centuries, like Azog and Bolg.
>>81033100
Man, everyone gives him grief about that fight, but it's not fair. A) that was no normal dog, it was a fucking magical hound of Orome the size of a horse and B) Sauron handicapped himself going into the fight by assuming the form of a wolf and not using his other powers because he was trying to con his way around a prophecy.
>>81033232
Bullshit, that is fan speculation at best. Tolkien never confirmed maia descended orcs.
>>81033100
It te as the most motherfucking badass dog that ever lived.
So do you guys would like to whatch a Silmarillion show produced with the blessing of Tolkien's sons?
How would you make it?
>>81029843
THERE'S A WAY
>>81032585
>Saruman had been looking for the ring long before even Bilbo found it.
That I was aware of. He had been dissuading folks for centuries about speculating/searching for the Ring so he could buy time for himself and find it.
>>81033331
I wouldn't mind an adaptation of the Children of Hurin. Túrin had a really fucking hard life.
>>81033331
>So do you guys would like to whatch a Silmarillion show produced with the blessing of Tolkien's sons?
I've never read the Silmarillion, but from what I understand of it, it cannot be portrayed in a theatrical format. Is it not like a historical tome of the entire existence of Middle Earth?
Also, Tolkien's son will never allow it.
>>81033289
Its a little more complicated than that.
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Boldog
Tolkien had a lot of diferent versions for the origin of things.
![4abde80107cfccf7d23ac0d16c3f47eb[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QTNTrxc.jpg "4abde80107cfccf7d23ac0d16c3f47eb[1].jpg")
>>81033419
Fucking dragons, mang.
>>81033532
Right, but the only real evidence for maiar orcs is A) Tolkien never settled on a clear origin for orcs and B) had some wonky timelines with the lifespans of a couple of them.
>>81033603
Glaurung was probably the biggest dick there ever was. Even bigger than Feanor.
>>81033677
Nah, Morgoth was a bigger dick than both. Sauron's a pretty close contender too.
>>81033632
And that part that I posted where "Boldog" might have been a title for a maiar shaped as a orc.
Which makes the name "Bolg and Azog" derivative of it many years later, which os a genius move.
But yeah, nothing oficcial.
>>81031614
i dont think it had an actual breeding process.
it was supposed to be dark alchemy and minerals and such as i recall.
>>81033728
Tolkien waffled on the origins of orcs a lot, but ultimately he said they breed the same as humans and elves. How Sauron and Saruman injected human stock into the mix is left unclear, but at no point is it implied to have been done through sorcery. Orcs are also know for carrying off female captives, and Tolkien does occasionally refer to orc bands "raping and pillaging" without further elaboration.
Take that as you will.
>>81033419
>>81033603
Turin was just a bitch. Here's what he should've done
>Yeah dragon, I knew she was my sister, I knew from day one! I'm Skywalkering up in this bitch! Now I'm gonna kill you and have crazy incest sex! AUGH YEAH!
>>81034719
Problem was his sister had already killed herself by that point.
>>81033825
sorcery and rape does sound a bit more familiar....
i wonder how they made trolls D:
>>81034719
Glaurung was already dead by the time he learned that shit. So was his sister.
>yfw his sword actually spoke to him.
>>81034810
Gurthang was creepy as shit.
>>81034798
Well, Treebeard sort of implies in TTT that trolls were maybe a perversion of ents. Olog Hai are implied to be created through troll/human crossbreeding.
>>81034833
They fucking warned Beleg, but he didn't listen.
>>81034887
Seriously, when Melian tells you "don't fuck with that shit" then you DON'T FUCK WITH THAT SHIT.
>>81033492
>Tolkien's son will never allow it.
All that money will eventually budge someone in the family into it down the line even if the current rights owner doesn't want to, it's all a matter of time.
