but can a doctopus eat its own pain
>Thanks for reading! I'm real excited for upcoming stuff!!!
Paranatural thread, plot stuff coming soon hopefully
>>80987301
I love Issac and Spender's back and forth.
Uh oh, Dimitri is sweating. Time to "accidentally" slap off some headphones.
So this is where the bar scene comes in, huh?
>That Doctopus grabbing for Mr. Spender
>Spender is in a LOT of pain
Is it from Forge's foot burn or... something else?
>>80987819
Just say what you're implying anon, because the idea that it's "something else" besides the gigantic untreated burn on his stomach is frankly kind of retarded.
>>80988197
I actually meant something else that we don't know about yet.
Pervert.
Pic related got me a bit puzzled for the longest time: if Isaac was (according to him) somehow insufficiently taught by Mr Spender over the past two years he had been in the club [CH3-P5], how could Isaac had known how to defend himself e.g the spectral fist? Now, though...
>B-but Master Guerra says
That means Isaac has met El Abuelo...and the latter's the one who must've taught him that knowledge.
>>80988275
He could have just seen a spectral fist while meeting him and learned that unrefined version on his own.
>>80987301
>spender having a flashback
Told you Hijack being in Spender was retarded.
>>80988336
>learned that unrefined version on his own.
'Unrefined' as in without the essential spectral flexing?
> on his own
> implying Isaac is somehow born 'talented'
Zack edited this page more than once.
>nobody cares about the sign
I'm not surprised. I just wonder if it's even going to be brought up.
I'm fairly certain someone's gonna pull a "Hey Max what's that sign on your shirt say? Bugged? What do you mean? Stop shooshing me!"
>>80988828
>as in without the essential spectral flexing?
No, as in the other spectral fists we've seen look like very defined fists. The one Isaac made in your pic has no individual fingers and is blobby, hence, my unrefined comment.
>implying Isaac is somehow born 'talented'
I never said that... Actually, I'm saying the opposite; he didn't know how to create one off the bat, so it took him time to at least make the "unrefined" version you see in your pic.
>>80988275
I'd imagine all spectrals come to know how to project the energy, under guidance at least. Being on a team with to Guerra kids probably leads to you picking up some stuff about it, and hearing from their master somewhat often.
>17 panels.
>Still moving at a glacial pace.
I think Zack must have realized this is the comic he needs to stretch out for his whole life. That or he's just getting even worse at pacing.
>>80989240
>more spectral conversation for the journalism club
>more spectral knowledge
>evidence that Spender is even more fucked up than we knew, but still too proud to do something about it
>intro to more story and character building
What do you want to happen anon. What do you want.
Shut up. Shoosh.
>>80987301
>Spender using his powers, reminiscing about his past, proving that it's really him.
And I was so sure that Hijack took him over too.
>>80989240
This page is great and just introduced yet another plot point about spender and let Isabel figure out he's in pain.
>>80987301
Did Suzie really just not know the history teacher was the club supervisor then.
>>80989240
>one page of a conversation involving the mentor's concern for his pupil and the aangstmachine running on auto while still formulating gags and backstory and mythos
>glacial
Yeah, updatewise somewhat but portion by portion things are actually happening. You expect every mystery and plot point to wrap itself up by the next update? Or what?
>>80989357
This was not the face of someone pretending to be shocked on the phone. The facial expressions, made for no one who is present, were obviously genuine.
It was never remotely possible it was Hijack.
Hell pain to his host apparently is enough to shunt him out of the body.
>>80989357
Really? My bet was on Isaac if any of the group. He's been quiet, which isn't uncharacteristic, but it gives us no evidence against him.
If it's a teacher than I'm still unsure.
>>80989389
I guess not. If she did, she could've assumed he just sits back and lets them do whatever, like what anime club teachers would do.
>>80988886
Where?
About Isaac's age reveal though. Anyone else found it so jarring and confusing because of this? I did.I knew that Isaac was to be Max's 'brother', I didn't expect it to be THIS LITERAL
>>80989333
For the composition to not be visually clogged, especially if he's more interested in peppering pages with subplots than telling his story?
Zack makes panels based on moments thought up in his noggin with very little editing, leading to excessive cuts to talking heads. You could change these 17 panels into 11 or less with relative ease and without sacrificing a single detail, to say nothing of how much more could be accomplished per page if he put more effort into editing and consolidating his pages.
>>80989946
>Zack makes panels based on moments thought up in his noggin with very little editing, leading to excessive cuts to talking heads. You could change these 17 panels into 11 or less with relative ease and without sacrificing a single detail, to say nothing of how much more could be accomplished per page if he put more effort into editing and consolidating his pages.
Does he decide what is worty of a panel like he is storyboarding?
>>80990497
Dunno, seems like it, but he makes a lot of really ineffective choices and has some serious composition problems.
Take this page for example, right? Spender's in 10 out of 17 panels...and is ALWAYS on the left side. This doesn't sound "wrong" until you realize the shots for this page are on a weird axis orbiting Spender for no reason. The middle column is a tower of vertical, rectangular panels in which Spender rests on the left side and looks down upon his students.
His problems are a result of the sheer number of panels, his strange insistence to make many pages three independent horizontal comics stacked on top of each other instead of a full page, and the result of oversight.
>>80991074
>...and is ALWAYS on the left side
Considering that nothing is added to the ensemble this is the absolutely correct thing to do. Changing this up purely to vary the composition will disorient the audience. It's the 180 rule.
>The middle column is a tower
Hyperbole much?
> his strange insistence to make many pages three independent horizontal comics stacked on top of each other instead of a full page, and the result of oversight.
There is no fucking way these kinds of pages would work better as fullpages. This is not essential action, it's conversation. Absolutely none of these panels could be done any other way than shots of people.
Like, jesus dude, the reason you use three rows of panels is because four full rows flows weird. This page is fine. Everything that happens is in character and flows properly. Zack's really good at composition when it's the highlight and this page isn't bad.
>>80988828
Those spirits he hangs out with seem to genuinely like him and have plans for him.
Who knows, maybe he's talented as fuck and that's why Mr. Spencer is holding back on him. Teach the kid slowly so he doesn't accidentally hurt anyone being way more powerful than he is skilled.
>>80991945
Fuck, I meant Mr. Spender.
>>80991074
I thought the axis of rotation was at a point in between Spender and the students.
>>80991672
>Changing this up purely to vary the composition will disorient the audience.
Yeah, which is why it totally looks awful when Max and Isabel do exactly what I'm talking about.
Oh, wait. No, it doesn't, because it looks entirely normal when the relative position changes. The 180 rule is about arbitrarily spinning the camera around, not electing to abstain from having an entire page where the camera is in a skewed orbit around one character.
>Absolutely none of these panels could be done any other way than shots of people.
What the hell does not splitting nearly every page into three distinct rows whether it works or not have to do with not using "shots of people"?
>the reason you use three rows of panels is because four full rows flows weird.
Oh my fuck.
Criticizing his consistent, arbitrary use of three self-contained rows does not mean I want him to make four rows. It means he needs to actually vary his composition as the full page requires instead of slamming three horizontal strips together and calling it a day.
Don't talk about composition if you don't understand it, please. You have no fucking clue and you look stupid when you try to pretend accidental repetition and poor panel economy aren't mistakes.
>>80992157
Technically, yeah, it's orbiting around both parties but angled strangely so that Spender is always on the left and omitted on shots that zoom in on the kids. We're really just speculating about a hypothetical camera Zack didn't intend, but it's still interesting.
Where do I learn more about comic panels and layout so I can make fun of Zack too
>>80992229
Huh, going back, it really is almost always simple rows, except for special occasions like the school map page.
>>80992229
>Yeah, which is why it totally looks awful when Max and Isabel do exactly what I'm talking about.
I don't understand your complaint. They don't switch positioning with each other either.
>having an entire page where the camera is in a skewed orbit around one character.
On a page whose material is focused on one character over the rest, focusing on that character is wrong?
>It means he needs to actually vary his composition as the full page requires instead of slamming three horizontal strips together and calling it a day.
Man, I'd like variety too, but it's not always necessary. Bigger panels would mean less material per page and idiots are already complaining about low content.
>you look stupid when you try to pretend accidental repetition and poor panel economy aren't mistakes.
Can you maybe let your argument stand for itself without insulting me? Are you saying this material would work better in a different format? Because as I said, Zack does understand good layout. It's just not essential to the storytelling most of the time because half the story is comedic.
>>80992520
Take some classes online, go to cons, practice for yourself, read a wealth of comics and analyze them, etc.
Composition's one of the most overlooked and undervalued aspects of comic creation to the masses, but it matters a lot if you want to get published. Zack's done good before, but he's at the point with Paranatural where he makes it as he goes instead of planning things out first, leading to mistakes like the nine month Hitball arc.
It's a real shame, but outside of composition and pacing his comic's still solid.
>>80992112
Misnaming the blonde buffoon is an exemplary virtue, anon.
>>80988886
What's different?
>I'm bugged
Let's have this spectral conversation anyways
>>80992788
Isaac the Eigth Grader.
And it turns out he actually edited it only once, the first time he just accidentally reuploaded the original.
>>80989357
Pretty sure a spectral would just resist hijack easily.
>>80992701
Are there webcomics with advanced-mode composition? The nature of the update schedule tends to involve less planning.
>>80992563
Yeah, it's a good rule of thumb to keep "normal" panels on 1/3 rows, but some artists start using it as a crutch and have problems branching out because of it.
>>80992656
>I don't understand your complaint. They don't switch positioning with each other either.
Spender is in the same relative position 10 consecutive times. Max and Isabel's relative positions shift as appropriate.
This should not be hard to grasp.
>Bigger panels would mean less material per page and idiots are already complaining about low content.
You can, quite literally, consolidate the panels on this page for the same amount of content due to its abundance of unnecessary cut-in shots.
>Can you maybe let your argument stand for itself without insulting me?
After your dismissive tone? No.
>Are you saying this material would work better in a different format?
No, im saying Zack puts out pages quick because of his schedule and his composition suffers for it.
>Because as I said, Zack does understand good layout.
And he usually does not apply this understanding, especially in the last year or so.
>It's just not essential to the storytelling most of the time because half the story is comedic.
Comedy is where execution and pacing matter most, you ignorant ninny.
>>80988275
Chapter 3 is where the art peaked. It all went downhill from the moment we saw Max's mom.
>>80992996
Most of them aren't exceptionally well composed, but that's why they're webcomics. The ones that are tend to be less frequently updated and popular, sadly. I don't actually care for it, but Poppy's a pretty well composed strip. Sadly, its art and writing isn't nearly as refined and it's kinda...dull.
>>80987301
Do I see a flashback starting? Please tell me it's time for a huge flashback.
>>80987301
> "...only a master like him can pull that off!!"
> "IPSO FACTO (BY THE VERY FACT ITSELF)"!
Not a native English speaker...so what Spanker is trying to say is "THEN I MUST BE AS SKILLED AS THE MASTER!" ?
>>80993305
He's using the phrase improperly, as if to say "Is that a fact...?"
But yes, your assumption is right, he's enjoying the implication that he's on that level of skill before revealing he's not.
>>80993162
Unsounded made that deal with the devil to keep its update schedule frequent. Does it have the same 'crutch.'
>>80993412
Again, not a big fan of the writing, but Unsounded is one of the best Webcomics from a purely artistic perspective. It uses little tricks to keep things from getting stale, as seen in your example page: staircase panels, open panels, good angles and variety in shots, etc.
There's nothing wrong with sticking by the classics, but you've got to vary it up if you want to thrive.
>>80992836
she will just think they're crazy.
>>80987301
i wonder if next arc Max will learn from the master himself, or will still be a newbie shitter.
>>80987301
Isaac would be that one guy in every fight that sits on the sidelines being shocked and expositing about how other peoples powers work.
>>80993049
>You can, quite literally, consolidate the panels on this page for the same amount of content due to its abundance of unnecessary cut-in shots.
Uh...no you can't. Not without sacrificing the beats.
>Are you saying this material would work better in a different format?
>No
Then it's only bad because of its abundance of use? Because it's not worth complaining in an instance where there's no room for improvement.
>And he usually does not apply this understanding
Perhaps not often enough, sure. He does rely on the three-row method, because it works. You're just able to notice it and have it affect your reading quality. Which sounds like a personal problem, since he's still easily capable of telling a story as is.
>Comedy is where execution and pacing matter most, you ignorant ninny.
Again: tell me, o master, how would any of the jokes be improved by different paneling? Because until you can fucking prove it, you're just talking shit.
>>80993154
I can't be too sure but the lineart strokes lately make me think he'd switched to digital since about that time with the mom. Pic in the post you quoted seems clearly more traditionally drawn.
>>80994192
No, he'd be the guy who participates but pauses the action to describe special moves.
>>80993305
Yeah, he's basically saying "Then that must mean that...?" implying he has masterful skill, but without directly saying it. So that Issac has to finish the thought himself.
>>80989565
>Kevin Brown
Which one?
>>80994117
Max won't do spectral energy constructs until probably near the end of the webcomic in 2025.
He'll use bullshit rule exploits instead of raw power.
>>80993386
>>80995895
Thanks for the help.
>>80993210
Nah, looks more like it's gonna be a change in POV.Maybe this is gonna be at...THE BAR.
>>80997929
The 'Man in Black' Kevin Brown. Isaac's tirade was pretty much this:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBqU0RnqBpE&t=1m26s]
>>80992879
It was just a misspelling. No biggie
>>80987301
I presume Max winks a bit (in 5th panel) from the pain as the doctopus's tentacle comes off his recovering arm?
>>80998164
i really hope Zack doesn't come up with some anime shit like "he had a bazillion years old spirit inside him that made him stronger" or "he learns faster than everyone because he is the descendant of a really strong spectral".
>>81003231
Well yeah.
But it's really more of a wince.
>>81003374
He doesn't have to.
As the "i'm bugged" demonstrates, he's surrounded by idiots. The others have been too caught up in their unbridled enthusiasm to really consider the implications of half the things they take for granted.
>>81003466
Zack has stated that this comic is going to be about max figuring out the rules and working around them. It looks like most of the spectrals have been spectrals for a long time, maybe even all their life.
As a "normie" turned spectral, Max almost certainly has a different view on all of this, so he will probably be able to come up with ideas that long-time spectrals would never even think of.
>Can a doctopus eat it's own pain?
>>80988275
All spectrals can make spectral constructs, however Spectral Fist is the fighting style developed by Guerra which probably allows much greater control of forms. Something like a spec-shot is the most basic of techniques. See how Isaac's spectral arm isn't fully formed there? If he was good at spectral fist like Isabel it would probably be perfect and not misshapen.
>>80994890
He switched to digital only in that one page where we see Max's mom. You can tell. Before he scanned drawings and inked and colored them digitally.
>>81004885
do doctopi have masochist-hedonistic orgies
>>80991074
Zack's not thinking about the structural composition of the pages which is a common thing to do for webcomicers who are less experienced and don't think of how each page leads into the other very much. Someone making a print comic would make sure things flow and the eye is carried around naturally as well as do some interesting things with the camera. I just read a thing that says if there is no full body shot on a page then your camera is too close and I agree with that. Zack tries to pack as much into a single page as possible, he tries to get all the necessary jokes in and wraps things up that are presented in one page. An example is Spender introducing the spectral string and explaining it all in one page. If this were print there would be less panels because we wouldn't be waiting multiple pages for the next page and something like the spectral string's introduction would probably be given a larger panel with more prominence. It's just stuff that works in webcomics more than in print which I think is fine. If Zack ever wants to do a print only comic he'll have to consider these things which I'm sure he can do.
>>80991945
Spender's holding him back because he's possess with a spirit that is very powerful and that the Consortium deems too dangerous to let know about their workings. He isn't even allowed to meet Walker or know the Consortium exists whereas Max who doesn't have the same thing was allowed to get in immediately. Isaac's been in this probably for years and can't know. It's also hinted that he hurt someone because he wasn't able to control his powers.
>>81005270
I can agree with that to a point, but Zack's fallen into a bit of complacency. He's become "cleaner" at the expense of taking fewer risks and framing things poorly. While working on a webcomic with such an active schedule he's got less time to revise, but as he's shown in the past he could be doing way better than he has been lately.
>>81005374
>Max who doesn't have the same thing was allowed to get in immediately.
Actually, Max too has never met Walker. He also was able to get in because of Boss Leader randomly appearing in his dreams, she dragged him in.
Now that you mentioned it...there's one thing I always wanted to be answered. I understand that Max needs to keep all this Consortium info, so he could investigate what's going on in the Club for himself...and then pic related fucking happened. Didn't B.L. told Max of how divulging stuff like this would have cost him? Why can't he just get to 'Spender's friend' and stop there?! Now he's just burning bridges, both with B.L and Isaac.
I remember questioning this at the comments a long time ago but ALMOST EVERYONE was busy jerking themselves to 'HURR DURR ISSAC VILLAN TIEM'... (ಠ_ಠ)
>>81003466
>>81004415
that would be more interesting, especially when everyone seems to think his powers are kind of useless.
>>81008239
>(ಠ_ಠ)
I miss the days when this comic was good. In fact I miss when these threads were 50 post on not filled with faggots. We'd talk about the lovely art make some blingies, laugh and call it a day. Take me back.
>>81008239
Max hasn't met Walker because he hasn't come around while he was there. To be invited into the Consortium BL will appear to a spectral. I assume that will happen as soon as BL finds out about them unless she doesn't want them like Isaac.
BL doesn't want Isaac to know about this stuff so she told Max not to tell her. Day is all in it so Isaac couldn't just approach her and ask. That's why he wanted Max to tell him since they were equal until that point.
Please don't use emoticons.
>>81008915
Sorry...I was conflicted whether to put in one pic to put up a point or a reaction image. In the end, I had to put in a necessary evil.
> so she told Max not to tell her
> her
I'm confused about which one, B.L or Day?
Also, why would Max mouth out 'agent' when he knew that would arouse Isaac's curiosity? (...or he didn't know about it?)
Question. What's even going on anymore?
>>81009402
She told Max not to tell him. Isaac. I messed up.
He said Agent because that's what they're called and wasn't thinking about it.
>>80987301
oh.. just now that i noticed that the doctopi is trying to get to Spender because he was hurt during that fight.
Slowpoke here.
>>81009768
Oh yeah. I was wondering why his reaction was so intense.
So I left when I realized the Hitball game was another Namek
Is some plot actually occurring now
>>81005374
Only knowledge of the organization is being withheld by orders.
Spender's just a shitty "I must never explain things, you have to find out for yourself" mentor.
>>81010058
I'd say we're technically still on namek. If Namek had a space station we've boarded a rocket and are lifting off but you can still see nameck pretty clearly.
>>81009623
>wasn't thinking about it.
You gotta be shitting me.
Well, Morrison, I hope you can write + solve this mess in this big story (among other things) well...and don't tell me it ends when the story ends too.
>>81010157
Max almost got raped by a train. His lying gland was still in shock.
>>81010157
I don't see anything outlandish about calling an agent an agent without realizing your buddy who doesn't even know there's an organization is around.
>>81010148
Ah well, I don't know if to jump back then. But one more question, if you don't mind (which might make me jump back now):
Is there more Suzy? I missed her in Train Namek and it seemed she was going to be more of a thing in this new chapter. The page in OP gives me hope on this regard.
>>81010314
She appears but she's not focus. Maybe soon. Otherwise she's just getting a panel every couple of pages as seen above.
There is certainly a big bit coming up but yeah, probably not yet.
>>81010363
Sucks. She's still my favorite character, even though we went like almost a year (if not a full one) without her having any kind of significance.
I do appreciate the art being more, say, stable. There was a point through the comic where Zack experimented a whole lot. By the end of train night/new school day it still felt iffy.
Now if he just fixed his damn pacing already. He really draws better than he writes.
>>81010314
Don't listen to them. Suzy got a whole page last week and is now inextricably integrated into the ongoing plot for the foreseeable future.
We are absolutely past Namekball. Everything is fresh again.
>>81010576
That gives me hope. Thanks.
Now if Zack ever gets into a Namek again I swear to god
>>81010217
Outlandish? No.
Extremely careless in a possibly life-threatening situation? Yes.
I'm pretty concerned about how that is going to affect them dealing with Johnny trying to reveal themselvesmaybe even with Suzy's helpthough. Without any other intervention or help, no less...
>>81010676
What does talking have to do with the life threatening thing?
>>81008835
>blingies
>not a thing anymore
Wow, these threads have changed.
>>81010676
They're goddamned kids, you dumb fuck. And even adults make mistakes based on lack of oversight, caution, or proper assessment of importance.
Go back to reading Death Note's first arcs if you want perfect geniuses all the time.
>>81011011
Yeah, I must've gone hyperbole on that. But didn't B.L imply to him blurting out stuff she gave him is untolerable or something?
Still, I think that Max's affair with B.L will kinda raise a bit of enmity and complicate Max and Isaac's aforementioned other current situation with Johnny.
>>81011200
Don't you recall Max told BL that he wasn't gonna promise anything about that?
>>81011174
>Go back to reading Death Note's first arcs if you want perfect geniuses all the time.
Light and L were always emotional egotistical retards, what are you talking about
>>81011053
We just lack for fresh material.
>>81011257
Yes...and I do recall he has no promise for her as he has no reason to work for her?
Dayum, this is starting to get more convoluted for me...I might have to start over from square one.
>>81011200
Johnny isn't even a part of anything yet. Max clearly being involved in the organization and not telling Isaac is why Isaac is so mad at him right now.
>>81011700
But it will still complicate it. As the now-frenemies Max and Isaac still have to cooperate against Johnny.
>>81011902
They'd probably make up after shooing Johnny away and forget about the whole 'agent' thing until...several chapters later?
>>81010626
I'll help screenshot it for you in case you forget...should that ever happen again.
But Ed can also do that!
He did it in his room
>>80987819
nah, it's just his heart on a daily basis
>>81014498
It's probably different when you're doing it with a tool as compared to using pure spectral energy.
>>81011174
>Go back to reading Death Note's first arcs if you want perfect geniuses all the time.
he fucked up right on the first part. He killed people only on Japan first, which made it the focus of investigations. He also didn't change at all the way people died, like he wanted to call attention.
>>80987301
i think it's the first page where Suzy appears and is not being best girl. What happened?
>>81014498
>>81015832
Yes. very different
>>80988275
Notice how his fist is shit. It's all wavy and blurry, when Isabel and Spender's constructs are firm and well-defined.
>>80993049
>Max and Isabel's relative positions shift as appropriate.
What? Their position remains constant throughout the entire page.
Isaac and Ed seem to turn invisible at certain points, but Max and Isabel are consistent.
>>81018288
He did want to call attention. That was the entire point in only killing with heart attacks, so people will realize someone or something is doing it on purpose and people stop being so shitty.
If he just wanted to kill tons of people L never would have had a real suspect, even in his bullshit accurate hunches.
Hold the fuck up
I'm rereading from the beginning, and it just struck me-
Have we learned anything about Max's mom in the past like, 4 years?
>>81022548
We used to have a guy ask about that every day. He's gone now.
>>81022548
All we know is that she died not long before they moved to Mayfield, and of course that she was a bit of a Deviant artist, as seen in that flashback
I think it was also implied that she died in an accident
Plot twist: Hijack isn't in the room. He escaped during the Hitball match and Jeff has been working with him since he got possessed. He's just faking Hijack leaving. Hijack's probably somewhere else entirely.
>>81024246
>not long before
Five years is not "not long."
>>81024951
what? it was five years?
I thought we were talking weeks
>>81025600
Pretty sure the start of the comic would have been a lot less jolly if max's mum had died weeks before.
>>81025600
Why would you think that.
>>81029118
Especially with this "promise"-based trauma.
>>81029247
God damn, I forgot how much I wanted to fuck max's mom.
>>81029247
I still really want to know how a guy like Max's dad and a woman like Max's mom end up together and maintain a relationship long enough to have two kids then die.
>>81029602
I bet max's dad completely changed after she died, I'm expecting a shot of him as a hip artsy guy in a flashback at some point.
>>81010058
Goku just defeated Captain Ginyu, we're almost to the Frieza fight
>>81010213
i think the train would be the girl on that relationship..
