>people call Frank a psycho for taking out criminals in masses
>same people in the same universe praise the Avengers for massacring HYDRA agents
>>80886977
I don't see the problem. (Almost) no one has a problem in the real world with killing bad guys in other countries, but you can't go around killing bad guys of your own nationality, it's too easy to imagine, 'Hey, I could be mistaken as on of those guys. They deserve due process.'
>>80886977
The accords passed for a reason.
>>80886977
>a shared comic book universe has inconsistencies
>a shared comic book universe has conflicting tones
>a shared comic book universe has plotholes and retcons with every new release
>a shared comic book universe was a bad idea
who knew
>hurr durr nazis are different
>>80886977
Same reason people call soldiers heroes for going off to another country and killing hundreds of people whereas if someone did the same thing to criminals back home with no legal authority they'd be cornered like the Dorner.
>>80886977
>for massacring HYDRA agents
No
>>80887486
It's almost like /tv/ doesn't read comics.
>>80886977
>same universe
>>80888474
Dare Devil is in the MCU universe
>>80886977
People don't have a problem with Frank killing criminals. The law has a problem with vigilantism.
>>80886977
>crazy redneck buys a gun and hunts criminals in his hometown
>gets arreated for vigilantism
>crazy redneck buys a gun and decides he's going to fight ISIS solo
>no one cares
Just like muh real life
Remember in Iron Man 3 where Tony casually drops a bomb on a guy who is faced down in a fountain?
Context, The Avengers kill in self defense.
>>80886977
Also Frank goes in with the express purpose of punishing bad guys by killing them.
The Avengers kill who they have to in order to win the fight and take prisoners/allow their enemies to surrender.
Or in other words Ross deciding Bucky should be killed on sight is closer to Frank, while Cap deciding they should take him in alive if possible is closer to what the Avengers have been doing.
>>80888532
I would argue that the avangers only killed Ultron and ultron bots. That non of the Hydra agents are dead.
>>80886977
>in masses
Holy shit, anon. At least try.
>>80888561
Well, we know the guys Iron Man had a "good talk" with lived. It's plausible that most of the Hydra guys from the intro lived but I have a hard time imagining all of them did.
Iron Man definitely kills in his solo movies and Cap and friends have shot people in his movies.
The Avengers are a team that was initially formed with SHIELD backing and reformed after SHIELD fell to take down Hydra. The Punisher is one man who decided it was his job to take out the people he feels deserve it.
>>80888487
MCU films will likely never acknowledge the Netflix shows. They already pretend Agents of SHIT doesn't exist, and for good reason.
>>80886977
>HYDRA agents
>people
Pick one OP.
None of the Hydra agents were killed, or at least visibly killed the way we would tell on a DD show
I mean the 'Good talk' 'No it wasn't' part was just there to let the audience know Tony didn't just massacre those guys
>>80888532
The Avengers attacked the Hydra base. They invaded.
>>80888561
Cap straight up murdered Baron Strucker.
>>80888893
>Cap straight up murdered Baron Strucker.
Are you retarded? They explicitly took him prisoner and then later Ultron murdered him in jail.
>>80888893
>Cap straight up murdered Baron Strucker.
>I did not watch the movie
>>80886977
The avengers are not heroes. At all.
>>80887934
Jewish controlled media then?
>>80886977
Shit even Daredevil is a hypocrite. Stick and Electra have likely killed way more people then Frank has but he doesn't give them nearly as much shit or try to send them to prison.
>>80889210
>Stick and Electra have likely killed way more people then Frank has but he doesn't give them nearly as much shit or try to send them to prison.
Somehowi doubt it.
>>80889320
Not counting people he might have killed in Afghanistan, Frank had killed about 30 people when DD took him down. Stick is old and has been fighting his war his entire life, his kill count is likely in the hundreds.
>>80888854
Fiege hates the guy doing the TV shows. He'll recast DD despite synergy.
>>80889498
[citation needed]
>>80886977
>People call out SHIELD for having too much power with Project Insight
>Same people praise Captains private global vigilante militia full of WMDs and God powers.
>>80889498
>Fiege hates the guy doing the TV shows. He'll recast DD despite synergy.
>Literally lying
>>80888812
Doesnt that basically make them global super vigilantes.
Global super vigilantes who almost doomed the world.
>>80889591
>project Insight is actively spying on every detail of every person in the world
>even before the Hydra reveal its stated purpose was to kill "threats" before they did anything threatening
>The Avengers can punch really hard
>only goes after targets that have already attacked people; leave most of their targets alive
gee, I wonder why people dislike one and not the other
>>80888532
Thor and the Hulk could've both walked in that place and get the scepter without anyone needing to get hurt.
>>80886977
I think my biggest hate of this movie is how it just felt like an excuse for some A-List pose-a-thon
>>80889643
Its the princple.
Cap himself they needed to be destroyed even with out the algorithn
Cap is a hypocrite, he belives the goverbment cant be trusted with power, but belives he and his gang of private unelcted super wmds, should just go around targeting who ever the feel like with no oversight.
He gets on Tony for Ultron then goes and does the same shit. Jisy put the world in a bottle cap
>>80889713
Good point.
Also bottle cap was great.
>>80889713
The Avengers have way more oversight than the government, simply because they can't declare their operations classified and prevent anyone from investigating them.
The only time the Avengers attacked anyone it was an international terrorist organization.
>He gets on Tony for Ultron then goes and does the same shit. Jisy put the world in a bottle cap
he does no such thing and you are retarded for thinking this.
>>80889591
>>80889627
It happened over a year ago. AoU was commercially successful, but the first Avengers levels of successful & also costed more too produce. Fiege sought an opportunity to throw Perlmutter under by blaming him for the movie's "under performance." In response, Disney cut Marvel Studios in half. Giving Fiege the movies & Perlmutter the TV shit.
Not to mention Fiege is just evasive regarding Netflix characters showing up in the movies.
>>80889801
They Literally dont answer to anyone.
At least politicans are slaves to PR and elections,
Avengers could decide one day to overthrow Iran and fuck you if you disagree
>>80889801
>The only time the Avengers attacked anyone it was an international terrorist organization.
They invaded a country.
>>80889677
Neither Hulk, not Thor are that powerful.
>>80889870
>They Literally dont answer to anyone.
Neither does the government. They can put out the official story, something the avengers don't have the luxury of.
>At least politicans are slaves to PR and elections
More like slaves to corporations.
>Avengers could decide one day to overthrow Iran and fuck you if you disagree
US has way more power to do something like that. If the Avengers did they'd get their shit slapped. If the US did they'd just tell everyone they did the right thing and no one would question it. How do you think Israel even exists?
>>80889643
>>The Avengers can punch really hard
Let's not kid ourselves.
The whole fucking premise of Civil War is that they're the most dangerous force on earth.
>>80889959
In terms of raw power they clearly get dwarfed by any country with a nuke.
>>80889909
The Avengers invaded a country. The US has forces constantly occupying countries around the world 24/7.
>>80890031
A nuke wouldn't have stopped Ultron (an Avenger creation btw) from literally destroying the planet. The Avengers did.
>>80890031
>The Avengers invaded a country. The US has forces constantly occupying countries around the world 24/7.
That implyins that Murrikans are thought to be the good guys. They are not. I know americans delude themselves thinking that anti-murrikan protests are a Lefty thing., but the truth is most of the world sees American intervention as morally wrong, aside from england and israel everyone think of you as the "other" bad guy.
>>80890092
They didn't do that by brute force though. Not really a testament to how dangerous and powerful they are. A nuke could have killed Ultron a lot quicker and Sokovia would just fly straight up into space.
It's jingoism and nationalism, ya dolt. Countries propagate the killing of other countries' people, but not their own. It's a huge double standard, and fucked up that we condone selective killing to begin with.
>>80890147
Brute force isn't the only thing that makes them dangerous.
They MADE Ultron. That alone makes them the most powerful and dangerous group on earth.
>>80890196
>They MADE Ultron
Tony acted without the Avengers' consent or foreknowledge, and the Ultron creation had nothing to do with him being Iron Man or the Avengers. If the Avengers team had been broken up or never existed he still could have made an AI just the same.
Ultron was an unrestricted AI problem, not an unrestricted sueprheroes problem.
>>80890289
And Banner.
And him being part of the Avengers at the time of the invasion is the exact reason he made Ultron.
Tony's mind is his superpower, his reason for being an avenger, his reason for being dangerous.
>>80890289
>no shield = no invading army, no cap 2
>no thor = not loki trying to take over earth,
>no tony = no iron monger, no iron man 2, no iron man 3, no ultron
>no cap = no jews controlling the world.
They havent done a single good thing
>>80888854
I remember reading old Avengers comics and how they always referenced everything that street level heroes were doing all the time.
Oh wait.
Nazis don't count
>>80890349
>And Banner.
Banner was just Tony's stooge,too much of a coward to say no at any point.
>And him being part of the Avengers at the time of the invasion is the exact reason he made Ultron.
He made it because the invasion caused him to think the world needed it. Even if there was no Iron an armor and he wasn't there to seethe invasion in person he still could have reached the same conclusion. It really doesn't make any sense to use a rogue AI as anything but an argument against unrestricted AI research. Ultron's existence has no bearing on how dangerous Captain America or the Hulk is.
>Tony's mind is his superpower, his reason for being an avenger, his reason for being dangerous.
So rewrite the Accords to say that anyone with an IQ above some predetermined amount can only act with permission from the UN? Does that make any sense?
>>80887486
>there aren't conflicting tones in real life
>there aren't plot holes and retcons in every series
>there arern't inconsistencies in all movies
>>80890441
>Banner was just Tony's stooge,too much of a coward to say no at any point
A superintellect that'll just make an evil world ending AI because he can't say no? You're right, that sounds safe!
>Even if there was no Iron an armor and he wasn't there to seethe invasion in person he still could have reached the same conclusion
The whole point was that he wouldn't. His personal experience with the invasion, his personal view of the entire invading army was the driving force behind it. Ultron's mind came from a jewel they stole from a otherworld God. Him being an avengers is the ONLY reason Ultron ever came to be.
>Ultron's existence has no bearing on how dangerous Captain America or the Hulk is
You're right, only on Tony (and maybe Banner).
The big indestructible rage machine and Thunder God have their own reasons for being dangerous. Kind of on the nose, too.
>So rewrite the Accords to say that anyone with an IQ above some predetermined amount can only act with permission from the UN? Does that make any sense?
If they've actively been making weapons for the biggest part of their lives? Spend most of their day in a suit made for combat? Have already made near sentient AI? Fuck yes keep tabs on him. As proven, that fucker could end the world.
>>80890365
>>no shield = no invading army, no cap 2
So, not the Avengers' fault. In fact, with no Avengers SHIELD doomed the world twice and there would be no one to stop it.
>>no thor = not loki trying to take over earth,
So, it's Thor's fault for being born and having a brother who was jealous? Or Odin's fault for adopting Loki? Should we blame the WW2 on Hitler's grandparents?
>>no tony = no iron monger, no iron man 2, no iron man 3, no ultron
Tony a shit. Although even in his case the Iron Man movies were all about people getting revenge on him for petty reasons and business partners betraying him. You can't really blame Tony for Stane doing shit behind his back. He might be a douche for what he did to Killian, but he's hardly culpable for Killian getting all butthurt and turning into a supervillain over it. Same with the IM2 villains.
>>no cap = no jews controlling the world.
fuck, you got me there. Pretty sure he's sorry, at least.
>>80890481
Good points, all bad movies have those things!
>>80889955
The Avengers have the post powerful weapon on the planet,An infinity gem stuck to a superrobot, and a reality warper.
They are basically a world superpower of only six people.
Its like, even if you feel the Government doesnt have enough checks, it still has checks to begin with.
Its like saying since condoms break, might as well rawdog aids patients.
>>80888532
The Avengers instigated the fight in AoU. It was not self-defense by any stretch.
>>80888812
The Punisher is a former soldier. That doesn't mean that when he picks his own targets and strikes them that it's not vigilantism.
>>80889547
The second sentence is pure soeculation but the former is widely known.
>>80890746
>Its like, even if you feel the Government doesnt have enough checks, it still has checks to begin with.
You're not even engaging my argument here. The entire point is that if the Avengers do something completely fucked up, there are outside entities who will evaluate them and go "hold on a minute." The "checks" you're talking about that the government is subject to only come from within. If the Avengers just bombed some neighborhood supermarket and then said, "don't worry we'll investigate ourselves for wrongdoing and let you know if we should be punished" no one would stand for that shit. If the government did something like that it they would get away with it. The avengers only lack "checks" in the most superficial sense.They are already checked int hat they are still subject to outside investigations and outside authority. They don't get to make the rules.
>The Avengers have the post powerful weapon on the planet, An infinity gem stuck to a superrobot, and a reality warper.
This could be a problem, but what solution is there? Tell them to be less powerful?
>>80890746
This.
American hipocrisy bro. Kill lots of people in the middle east? Dure whaterever. Kill the drugdealer next door? Bro it's not our call to take precious lives
>>80887934
Thread should have ended here.
>>80890859
The point being made is that you lay out what is "too far" BEFORE they go too far. Waiting until something goes wrong to take precautions is retarded and will cost lives.
>>80889955
The US cant do that because it has to deal with a thousand complex geopoltical interests and politic faout.
To get ANYTHING done in the US, you have to get through half a dozen assholes each with therw own agendas, patrons, alegeinces and concerns. Navigating that massive clusterfuck all while trying to avoid getting screwed is what politics is about.
The reason one asshole cant just fuck every body in america is because there is an army of OTHER assholes fucking back in the opposite direction.
America is, by design barely functional. There is a reason it takes massive wars and depressions for us to do much of anything.
The avengees dont have that issue. They dont need to deal with budgets or voters or lobbyists, they dont need to think about there campaign dontators or forgen treatoesvor the global economy.
These guys could decide to assassinate Putin over a lunch break, order Pizza, and be back before it was even delivered.
Modern governments are clusterfucks of constipation, and even then shit falls through the cracks. Removing the constipation wouldnt give you LESS bullshit, it would cause a fucking river.
Because TWO guys, TWO decided to save the world how they saw it, they almost got all life on earth wiped out.
The plot in TwS took 70 years and millions of people to get on board.
The New Avengers could take over earth in a long weekend.
Did no one see JLU? Read The Authority, Squadron Supreme,Kingdom Come,Superman Red Son or Injustice.
You cant just dress demagougery in a flag and make it ok!
>>80890859
>The "checks" you're talking about that the government is subject to only come from within.
In a democratic government, the government still answers to public opinion.
>>80889498
>Fiege hates the guy doing the TV shows. He'll recast DD despite synergy.
That's definitely DC moves.
>>80890957
>In a democratic government, the government still answers to public opinion.
point out the democratic government you're referring to. If you mean US, fucking lol
>>80890922
>The point being made is that you lay out what is "too far" BEFORE they go too far.
Ok, and there are already existing laws and shit, so I think that's taken care of.
>>80890934
>Did no one see JLU? Read The Authority, Squadron Supreme,Kingdom Come,Superman Red Son or Injustice.
What makes the MCU Avengers more like the Justice Lords or the Authority than the Justice League?
>>80890746
>Its like, even if you feel the Government doesnt have enough checks, it still has checks to begin with.
You're not even engaging my argument here. The entire point is that if the Avengers do something completely fucked up, there are outside entities who will evaluate them and go "hold on a minute." The "checks" you're talking about that the government is subject to only come from within. If the Avengers just bombed some neighborhood supermarket and then said, "don't worry we'll investigate ourselves for wrongdoing and let you know if we should be punished" no one would stand for that shit.
That is literally what Cap is fighting for.
Two Avengers almost DESTROYED EARTH and hes like
>Naw we'll handle ourselves.
And they only got MORE powerful since then
>>80890988
The US Gov absolutely has to bend to public opinion. They can try to steer it but they ultimately need the support of voters. There's a reason politicians always VERY carefully choose their words in a way that puts off as few people as possible. Also:
>>80890934
>Ok, and there are already existing laws and shit, so I think that's taken care of.
That the Avengers have been given exemption from. The Accords just apply the existing laws to them.
>>80890957
>In a democratic government, the government still answers to public opinion.
Well they're supposed to at least
>>80891050
>Two Avengers almost DESTROYED EARTH and hes like
Tony almost destroyed the earth. BY CREATING AI. NOT BY BEING IRON MAN. NOT BY BEING AN AVENGER. ULTRON WAS NOT CREATED BY UNCHECKED SUPERHEROICS. HE WAS CREATED BY AI RESEARCH. RESTRICTING SUPERHEROES BECAUSE OF ROGUE AI MAKES NO SENSE. YOU HAVE A SOLID ARGUMENT FOR RESTRICTING AI. HOW MANY TIMES MUST THIS BE REPEATED?
>>80890988
Top fedora.
Incompetence is a feature of democracy, not a bug.
I can count congresses acts per session on one hand, and the President cant even close a fucking prison. And the Supreme Court, have you seen the news?
The US government is so democratic, they are incapable of meaningful action unless under total threat.
Which was what the founders intended.
>>80891014
The Cadmus arc was all about how the JL ignoring the world's governments was them moving in the Justice Lords direction. It was resolved by them deciding to cooperate with the government.
In CW the Avengers are directly going against the wishes of the world's governments.
>>80890365
Are you fucking stupid, Jews would control the world with or without Cap.
See real life.
>>80891102
>HOW MANY TIMES MUST THIS BE REPEATED
until you understand you're wrong
If you honestly think Tony's intelligence, his drive to create an AI, Banner's mind, the infinity gem etc aren't all in play due to the avengers you're just purposely being blind.
>>80891014
The whole
>Fuck your laws we do what I want
Caps entite speech was Unilaterial Intervention doctrine wrapped in a soundbite.
He basically said anyone,anywhere is liable to get Capped at any time and he aint asking permission.
Dude is a walking one man Vietraqistan
>>80890604
All movies do.
>>80891064
>That the Avengers have been given exemption from.
such as?
>The Accords just apply the existing laws to them.
There's an existing law that says you have to shoot suspects dead on sight even when detaining them is an option?
>>80891172
... You've only seen bad movies?
>>80891102
Ultron was literally an Avengers program made by 2 avengers, to replace the avengers.
And now Cap wants to run around with Ultron 2.0 with a fucking infinity gem in its head and an ex terroist with fucking reality warping powers and a questionable psychology.
>>80891177
>such as?
Such as being allowed to hop into another country, shoot up a place, and take what's inside. PMCs are not allowed to wage their own private wars.
>>80891163
They aren't though. Drive to create AI maybe. Not the ability to. Not his intelligence. Not Banner's.
I don't even know what you're suggesting anymore now.Tony being able to create AI or being a supergenius is fine, but their should be laws in place to suppress his drive to do so? And how does any of that relate to the others?
>>80891102
But Tony is now part of the Avengers.
Things that have factually happened are now part of the capabilities of the Avengers.
That's why they need to have acountability. Because what they're capable of. Because of what even 2 of them are capable of.
>>80886977
The credits scenes of avengers is basicly the same we love them we hate them debate as the one about Frank.
>>80891258
>the things they did aren't their fault
>the things they do aren't part of the things the avengers can do
>capabilities beyond control need no oversight
You seem weird.
>>80891251
You think stopping Hydra is a private war that only the Avengers are waging?
>>80891239
>Ultron was literally an Avengers program made by 2 avengers
And? Take away the Iron Man armor, he could still create Ultron. Take away the team, he could still create Ultron. he's an Avenger yeah, but creating Ultron was not something that only a superhero could do, or something that would have been stopped if they said "you can only use the Iron Man suit when we say so."
>And now Cap wants to run around with Ultron 2.0 with a fucking infinity gem in its head and an ex terroist with fucking reality warping powers and a questionable psychology
Good points,Wanda should probably be in jail and who the fuck knows what they should do with Vision. I don't see Ross bringing wither of those up though.
>>80891186
Yes, all movies are bad.
Read a book faggot.
>>80891377
Can't they just make a movie of the book?
>>80891340
Nice strawman
>the things they did aren't their fault
never said this.Creating Ultron is Tony's fault for sure.
>the things they do aren't part of the things the avengers can do
Never said this either. i said he wasn't acting as an Avenger when he created Ultron. If a doctor goes home and beats his wife you don't sue him for malpractice because "he's a doctor lol, everything he does is related to him being a doctor" Beating his wife is a separate thing.
>capabilities beyond control need no oversight
never said this either. And if they're truly beyond control,what is oversight going to do? Nothing.
>>80891349
Thats what the accords was.
Remember, that grocery store analogy?
Replace it with an entire fucking city.
I cant evem understand how the Cap side even justifies this shit
>>80891349
The Avengers were a SHIELD program sanctioned by the WSC.
After TwS, they just became a bunch of ex soldiers and mad scientosts fucking shit up
>>80891349
Ultron IS an iron man armor dude, Ultron was his Drone program from.IM3 expanded in the wake of his pstd from Avengers.
Tony has had a very clear and logical characters arc developing
>>80891396
>never said this.Creating Ultron is Tony's fault for sure.
And a direct result of him being an Avenger.
>i said he wasn't acting as an Avenger when he created Ultron
He was, and he was using Avenger assets. Just because they have poor communication between eachother is no reason to say he wasn't working as one. They just have poor oversight, even internally.
>If a doctor goes home and beats his wife you don't sue him for malpractice because "he's a doctor lol, everything he does is related to him being a doctor" Beating his wife is a separate thing
If a soldier with PTSD comes home from war, and shoot and kills his wife, it's RELATED TO HIM BEING/HAVING BEEN A SOLDIER AT WAR. Some things are relatable. Keeping it relevant, Tony cites the Avengers as a direct reason for his creation of Ultron. It's related.
>never said this either
But it is what's being discussed. you just directly assume they're put out of business and not allowed to do anything for some reason.
>And if they're truly beyond control,what is oversight going to do? Nothing
Using the other people with massive capabilities to reign the others in. You know, the premise of Civil War?
>>80891445
>Thats what the accords was.
what is?
>Remember, that grocery store analogy?
>Replace it with an entire fucking city.
The Avengers didn't destroy a city. Ultron did. Ultron was AI negligence, not superhero negligence.
Oh,and guess what, the Avengers still don't get to investigate themselves and keep all other investigating agencies away from it, even if they want to.
>I cant evem understand how the Cap side even justifies this shit
Justifies creating unpredictable AI? They don't. Cap was against that.
>>80891177
>There's an existing law that says you have to shoot suspects dead on sight even when detaining them is an option?
When a criminal is considered armed and dangerous, "shoot on sight" is absolutely legal.
Bucky getsets non-lethally taken in after the scene where he's in a vice.
>>80891349
>You think stopping Hydra is a private war that only the Avengers are waging?
Them not being the only ones doesn't make it not vigilantism. They're planning and executing their own military strikes idependently of any government.
>>80891396
>And if they're truly beyond control,what is oversight going to do? Nothing.
It lets the Avengers know what "too far" is.
>>80891551
>>Ultron was AI negligence, not superhero negligence
>"I never watched Age of Ultron" the post
>>80891551
The Accords IS that investigation.
CW is word for word the scenario you are describing.
The Avengers fucked up and now Cap wanting to avoid outside investigation
>>80891538
>he was using Avenger assets
Where do Avengers assets come from? If they aren't publicly funded I would assume that's all Stark's money that he would have even without the Avengers.
>If a soldier with PTSD comes home from war, and shoot and kills his wife, it's RELATED TO HIM BEING/HAVING BEEN A SOLDIER AT WAR. Some things are relatable. Keeping it relevant, Tony cites the Avengers as a direct reason for his creation of Ultron. It's related.
Point taken, but you still wouldn't punish all the other soldiers who didn't shoot their wives though.
>you just directly assume they're put out of business and not allowed to do anything for some reason.
Where did I assume that? My only point of contention is that the avengers are already subject to outside oversight, can already be held responsible if say, they got together and bombed some innocent guy, and that guys like Ross are way shadier and less scrutinized than they are.
>Using the other people with massive capabilities to reign the others in.
Then they aren't "beyond control"
>>80891649
No it isn't. Is anyone standing trial for being culpable in creating Ultron? No. Is anyone looking into the ramifications of AI research? No. Are the Avengers being taken over and given shady as fuck kill orders with little justification? Yes.
>>80891586
>When a criminal is considered armed and dangerous, "shoot on sight" is absolutely legal.
that's bullshit. There's three things that have to be in place before you can use lethal force: capability, opportunity and intent. It's always kind of a grey area, because those things can be tricky to judge in a snap decision, but "he's probably armed" doesn't give you justification to kill.
>They're planning and executing their own military strikes idependently of any government.
how do you know they didn't plan with anybody? We don't see any governments condemning them for taking down the Hydra base.
just like my comics
>>80886977
There's killing some idiot who robs a liquor store, and then there's killing people whose organization made the Nazis go "wow, too far".
Not that I liked Age of Ultron, mind you.
>>80886998
Oh so you have no problem with the superstrong guys from one nation just walking around where they please and blow shit up? Ok
>>80891908
People already do that. Does being superstrong make it so different as to require us to go back to the drawing board and rethink everything?
>>80891688
>Where do Avengers assets come from?
>What is the infinity gem Ultron was based on?
>>80888487
>Daredevil: Hundreds died in the Battle of NY
>Civil War: 78 people died Capn!
>>80886977
That's part of the point. The thugs that were getting Franked were closer to home for these people. Think about the kid who shouted that Frank killed his father during the trial. People ignore tragedy until it's right in front of them, they don't want to think about it.
Plus, those Hydra goons were signing up to be part of a terrorist organization, so they were kinda asking for it.
>>80891976
That wasn't an Avengers asset. That was lent to him by his buddy Thor.
>>80889498
Who? Loeb?
>>80891993
Nobody could side with Cap if 100s had died.
So just retcon it, I guess.
>>80892012
Who is an Avenger. An Avenger gave a powerful artifact to another Avenger to use for his own needs.
That's an Avenger asset, leading to a situation created by the Avengers.
>>80886977
The difference is that the Avengers will show mercy if the bad guy surrenders, Frank won't.
>>80889713
So what's the alternative? Only wait to save people if the UN says it's ok? Or go to war with Country X because the UN says to? How do we know some Hydra fucks aren't running the UN either?
>>80892021
Battle of NY would have happened anyway Avengers or no Avengers.
More would have died if it wasn't for tje Avengers, hell Cap did crowd control and saved people from the Chitauri who were attacking.
>>80891166
>liable to get Capped
fucking kek.
>>80888893
I know /co/ doesnt read comics but now some of us don't even watch the movies we talk about?
>>80892041
An Avenger owning something makes it an Avengers asset? Was Hawkeye's house an Avengers asset? Is the giant bunny Stark Gave to Pepper for Christmas an avengers asset?
>>80892080
>>80892021
If there were no Avengers Manhattan would be nuked and the death toll would be millions instead of muh 78.
>>80892080
>Battle of NY would have happened anyway
Because of SHIELD, which was shit too.
A powerful organization whose abuse of their power (in the attempt to do good) led to the deaths of "hunderds", and the possibility of the destruction of earth.
They are the example as to why the Avengers are dangerous.
>>80892143
Man the Security Council really were retarded weren't they?
>>80891688
Its not punishment, only a psycho would consider not beeing able to do whatever the hell you wanted as punishment
>>80892122
When used exclusively by Avengers members, or to further Avenger goals? Yes.
>>80892186
>Complete alien invasion of the entire planet
>Or one city
Tough call
>>80892066
Not invading sovereign nations without consent for one.
>>80891893
HYDRA is less objectionable than the Nazis. The Nazis didn't hate them for being too evil, but for betraying the Nazi party.
>>80891389
NO DON'T DO THAT
>>80892195
>not beeing able to do whatever the hell you wanted
They already can't
Only a psycho would want to turn superheroes into contract killers.
>>80891935
We don't let people do that. The Avengers shouldn't be exempt from existing laws.
>>80892235
That's not true. We, Americans do that all the time! Even if the Avengers worked for Uncle Sam they'd probably just wind up doing it far more often
>>80892252
That is LITERALLY what cap is fighting for.
The dure has a private army lf ex terroiststs,assasins,spies ,death robots and literally fucking god tier magic and he is going
Fuck you I do what I want like Cartman
>>80892235
Ross does that too.That's not going to stop under Ross.
>>80892252
>They already can't
All the movies, and the main plot of CA:CW, prove you wrong.
where was the military during the Hydra base infiltration? I mean its a fictional cheeky breeky country but you'd think there would be military or cops cordoning the area and doing clean up. Hell, I was surprised to see that the base was still empty and fictional when Ultron returned. not even a single guard
>>80892209
Just trying to fix SHIELD's mistakes, as efficiently as possible.
The nuke they sent even saved the day, in the end.
>>80888561
Dr. List is supposed to be dead from Iron Man repulsor-blasting him, but maybe he was just unconscious.
>>80892286
>>80892303
They are a UN organization, which cant send peacekeeping forces without a nations consent
>>80892252
Tell that to the private Robot Army the avengers had that went evil
>>80892209
Wasn't anything that couldn't have been solved by firepower instead. Tony even points out that Lili was fucked no matter what he did.
>>80892021
How do we know one or more of the Avengers aren't HYDRA?
Anyways, we absolutely do have laws about this shit for a reason. You can't hop into a country and attack people without permission.
Soldiers also not only can but are expected to refuse unlawful orders.
>>80886977
I just love how all of this is Tony's fault
>outs himself as Iron Man thus the US Government is like hey give us your armor
>Goes all woe is me and my daddy issues so Hammer gets his tech and Mickey Rourke does terroist shit with his bird
>Talks shit to the Mandarin and makes him all sadpanda and become a strong independent white businessman who makes people into bombs
>Makes Ultron because muhretirement even after Bruce said no
Like why do they even keep him around?
>>80892197
Only applicable if done with the knowledge and support of other Avengers, or if after it came to light they were okay with it. Which they weren't.
>>80892399
The Avengers had no such army. That was Stark.
And is having robots illegal? Did anyone break any laws by making robots? We're just no starting to see regulations on what kind of drones can be operated privately.
>>80892478
The fact that they weren't aware their two geniuses were using the god artifact they own to create things, does NOT put them in a positive light.
Just another argument for more control and oversight.
>>80892442
>You can't hop into a country and attack people without permission.
How do you know they didn't get anyone's permission? Was the Sokovian government mad that they took out the Hydra base there?
>Soldiers also not only can but are expected to refuse unlawful orders.
On paper, sure, that's the rule.
>>80892252
The fact that they have no restrictions do far is the entire premise behind this movie.
And they're not being asked to be contract killers. The Accords just says they can't get involved in something unless the UN approves.
>>80892486
A robot army specifically made for combat.
You put a working gun on your drone, see if that's illegal.
>>80892535
So if some FBI agent goes home and builds a killer robot it's the FBI's fault? They should have been monitoring him 24/7 and making sure he never did anything dangerous in his spare time?
>the god artifact they own
it was Thor's
>>80886977
>Those who oppose the political system aren't people but those who abuse it are
It's like you never saw how media dehumanize terrorists on tv
>>80892588
>it was Thor's
Made available exclusively to them.
If some NSA agent goes home and hacks governments using NSA tech he took home, then YES IT'S ALSO THE NSA'S FAULT.
>>80892565
Did the Iron Legion have guns?Pretty sure they were only used to evacuate hostages.
>>80892552
>The fact that they have no restrictions do far is the entire premise behind this movie.
According to Ross, who is a known liar and sociopath.
>And they're not being asked to be contract killers.
Bucky
>The Accords just says they can't get involved in something unless the UN approves
on paper, sure
>>80892536
It doesnt matter if they had permission then, Cap is activy fighting against needing permission.
Hes a fucking super terroist.
He is no better than Killian right now.
>>80892625
Are you... are you mentally well?
>>80886977
I think people seem to forget that Cap's whole arc is dealing with the fact at the nature of the world and how it's changed.
Cap is the true paladin of the MCU. If he sees something wrong he is going to try and stop it. He came from the "greatest generation" after all when you knew who was bad and who was good.
Modern day politics are a lot more...cluttered and Cap still can't come to grips with that. It's part of his whole disillusionment with the big picture and a major reason why he was at odds with Oversight and Fury BEFORE they even knew it got taken over by Hydra. He feels like governments today will sit idle if something in the world is fucked up instead of just going off to save the day. And in some instances he is right because politicians are in bed with corporations and will turn a blind eye to things if it means more profit.
But at the same time oversight is important because he is still human albeit enhanced. He's not perfect and having someone keep you in check is important in terms of staying on the right path.
>>80892621
he wasn't using something the Avengers made. He was borrowing something by Thor. The NSA agent in the analogy would be borrowing some other NSA agent's privately owned hacking tech.
Also NSA agents have been caught using agency resources to spy on people privately, like significant others and shit. I don't see the UN taking over the NSA in response.
>>80892535
They were left alone with the thing for a few hours, how could the rest of the Avengers know they were gonna discover the beginnings of an AI that would try to wipe out all life on earth?
Also by the time the movie starts it's pretty clear that Ultron has been given up on until Stark and Banner discover the AI in the staff, so it very well could have been a project they started and canned in the time after Avengers 1, where they all went their separate ways, but before they got back together to take on Hydra.
>>80892625
>Did the Iron Legion have guns
Considering Tony made his bots to replace the avengers and fend off further Alien invasions, they better have.
>>80892642
>Cap is activy fighting against needing permission.
He's fighting against being ordered to kill.
>Hes a fucking super terroist.
it's automatically not terrorism when it's government sanctioned though, right?
>>80892625
REpulsor Rays and super strength
>>80892684
>Considering Tony made his bots to replace the avengers and fend off further Alien invasions
it looked like he just made them to evacuate people in Sokovia. They didn't really do any fighting.
>>80892625
>According to Ross, who is a known liar and sociopath.
Why would he tell a lie to someone who would obviously know it was the case or not? If Cap did have restrictions, Ross telling him he didn't would serve no purpose other than making Ross look like an idiot.
>Bucky
What does this even mean? Spoilers confirm that Bucky gets arrested non-lethally before the "war" breaks out.
>>80892679
>he wasn't using something the Avengers made. He was borrowing something by Thor.
Semantics. Exclusive Avenger objects were used.
>The NSA agent in the analogy would be borrowing some other NSA agent's privately owned hacking tech.
Private hacking tech he made available for use by the NSA.
>Also NSA agents have been caught using agency resources to spy on people privately, like significant others and shit. I don't see the UN taking over the NSA in response.
And nobody complained about these things ever. Nobody demands change.
>>80892670
Are you saying Cap would go for Iraq and Nam?
Invertionism isnt just a blanket plus
>>80892733
He specifically states their purpose. You did watch the movie, didn't you?
>>80892706
>He's fighting against being ordered to kill.
No, he's not. The Accords only restrict when the Avengers can act. It doesn't compel them to action.
In both trailers, Cap isn't arguing against unethical orders. He's arguing against people telling him to stay out of situations.
>>80892683
That's so fucking irrelevant.
If there were proper communication, or even asking for permission, at least there would be an argument here.
But they knew what they were doing would not be accepted by the entire group, used some God's artifact anyways, and that lead to the possible destruction of the world.
Had there been a discussion with the rest, the whole thing could've been avoided.
Which is all anyone asks for, and all Cap and you argue against.
The Avengers plainly need managing.
>>80892788
And? Does that mean they already had guns? We know what he planned to do with them, that's different from what he already did.
>>80892821
at best he's being ordered to stand aside and let someone be killed.
>>80892839
>Had there been a discussion with the rest, the whole thing could've been avoided.
>Which is all anyone asks for
are you for real
are you for fucking real.
Cap is LITERALLY the guy who kept saying the Avengers should communicate more and not keep secrets. That's not what this is about.
>>80887934
Dorner was right
>>80892875
What they are, and what they are possibly becoming is irrelevant in this instance.
The question was "When is owning an army of robots illegal".
"When they are made to cause harm" was the answer.
"The Iron Legion currently doesn't cause harm" was the following response.
"It's designed to be able to hold up the law and fight off invasions, if they're not harmful now their purpose is to eventually be" is the point.
>>80892875
>at best he's being ordered to stand aside and let someone be killed.
You mean "at worst". At best he's being asked to not declare himself chief of world police.
>>80892952
>"The Iron Legion currently doesn't cause harm" was the following response.
So end of discussion? I thought the punishment usually came after the crime.
>>80886977
>>80886977
Why stop at the Avengers though? Why not all heroes have proper training and oversight? That's why Iron Man was right about Civil War. You can't just get powers and fight crime. I mean sure you may stop a purse snatcher and that's cool but what about when you're fighting a seasoned villain in the middle of Central Park?
>>80892915
That is what this is about.
They will get oversight, and will need permission to act.
That's all that'll happen, and all that Cap chimps out about.
They won't be given orders or targets, just being made aware when their actions aren't welcome or wise.
Why do people pick on man of steel when iron man has killed all of his villans in the movies?
>>80892980
He's designing them to be able to do harm. He openly states that.
At that point, his robot army will be illegal. That's the entire point. WHEN they are able to do harm, as Tony STATES they WILL be, they should be illegal.
Fucking hell man.
>>80892971
When did Cap declare himself chief of world police? When he fought against an alien invasion? When he participated in a strike against a known terrorist organization? When he helped stop a robot that he had no part in creating?
Everyone keeps acting like Cap is going around declaring who guilty and who isn't when he never does that. That's Ross's thing.
>>80892367
The rules never stopped Ross before.
>>80893047
>WHEN they are able to do harm, as Tony STATES they WILL be, they should be illegal.
So end of discussion? I thought the punishment usually came after the crime.
>>80888487
>no avengers tower
It's even less canon than aos
>>80886977
it's fine if they're not living on US soil.
>>80892995
Because MUH SUPERMAN NEVER KILLS even though he has quite a few times in his history. Shoot I remember in DOOM he openly states he has no problem killing aliens or sentient robots.
>>80892994
>That's all that'll happen
how can you be this delusional? That's not even all that happens in the trailer.
>>80893077
Nowhere in the discussion did anyone ask for Tony's immediate arrest.
Only asked when a robot army was to be deemed illegal.
You seem confused.
>>80892457
>>Makes Ultron because muhretirement even after Bruce said no
He didn't make ultron intentionally, dumbass it became self aware for some fucking reason and after spending a few seconds on the fucking web decided that wiping is the fuck out was the only solution
>>80893120
Gee, because Cap resists and responds with violence?
Tony will ask for permission to bring him in, and it will be granted. That's actually all that Cap wanted, but somehow doesn't want it applied ot himself.
Bucky's the one who openly tries to assassinate Stark, shoots Rhodes from the sky, and Cap is on HIS side.
>>80893176
He's trying to save Bucky because they're trying to just kill him without caring that he was programmed by Hydra
>>80893176
Cap resists the men sent to kill.
Cap is on the side of a guy who was forced against his will to become a killer. Stark is on the side of a guy who just kills because he wants to.
>>80893163
So, you simply can't read?
All that was said is that there will be limitations put on what members of the Avengers can do.
>but they already can't do everything they want
>there's a dude in the avengers building a robot army with warlike capabilities that went fucking evil, some things need to be reigned in
And you recieve that as "TONY NEEDS TO BE ARRESTED" instead of "ey yo Tony cut that shit out man"
>>80893055
When he refused to have limitations put on what he dan do in the name of peace.
>>80893120
That's exactly what happens. Cap becomes a fugitive because he aids a wanted convict evade the law.
>>80893231
>>80893236
Good thing Cap's willing to endanger and kill other people, then.
Rhodes gets mortally wounded. Tony almost gets shot by fucking Bucky himself.
Supposedly Cap stands by those descisions.
So Cap gets to decide who lives and dies?
>>80893231
They care that he was programmed by HYDRA. Knowing that fact is exactly why they consider him a threat.
And if the trailers and leaked plot details are any indication, the danger of him relapsing at any moment is very real.
>>80893253
>he aids a wanted convict evade the law.
He aids a wanted convict evade being shot on sight. That's not the law.
>When he refused to have limitations put on what he dan do in the name of peace
Such limitations as "ey yo stand side while we ice this fucker"
You just listen to everything your government says unquestioningly?
>>80893296
Cap defends himself in the trailer. He doesn't kill anyone.
I haven't seen the movie yet so it's possible that when Tony almost gets shot, Bucky is still mind controlled. No idea who shoots Rhodes either because I haven't seen the movie nor do we know if he dies.
>>80893236
It's not about guilt or innocence. Bucky is dangerous, whether it's his fault or not.
And Ross is extreme but he doesn't kill for fun.
>>80893296
>Rhodes gets mortally wounded.
Don't even pretend like you can tell who did that.
>>80893296
>Tony almost gets shot by fucking Bucky himself.
He had Bucky's arm in a vise. Not his fault Tony let him out or whatever, also how do you know this happens after Cap has Bucky restrained?
>So Cap gets to decide who lives and dies?
No, and neither does Ross. That's the point.
>>80893365
>Bucky is dangerous,
not a reason to kill someone. Especially someone who can be caught and restrained.
>>80893365
Fuck General Ross. This was the same faggot who decided to inject a trained soldier with super juice to fuck up his daughter's boyfriend in the middle of Harlem. Not to mention use tons of military hardware to go after a guy who wants to be left alone.
You don't fucking attack the Hulk head on in a crowded place for the greater good. That's just retarded. His entire judgement in that movie should've got him court martialed and sent to prison. Especially when you consider Banner was actively trying to cure himself throughout the movie.
>>80893364
>Bucky is still mind controlled
>super assassin responsible for dozens of high value kills
>already saved once
>once more under enemy control
>once again assassinating high profile targers
>killing him would be WRONG
Nah, fuck you, Bucky is a liability that's better off dead if he's evil AGAIN.
If he's not even evil, and just trying to assassinate Stark, he's wanted for a very good reason still.
>>80886977
If you noticed, in Age of Ultron, the Avengers used nonlethal methods when they could, even against HYDRA. Like the scene where Iron Man takes down a whole room full of them and they're groaning on the floor. Frank goes around straight up executing ordinary gang members. Not terrorists, but street criminals. The Avengers don't torture, and they don't "execute" anyone, they kill their enemies in battle, or capture them if they can. They have never, so far, taken it upon themselves to kill someone who is completely in their power or has surrendered, the closest they did was to hunt down the fleeing Ultrons.
>>80893392
He DOES get caught and restrained. Then he goes nuts and almost kills a bunch of people while captive, so they very understandably stop trying the non-lethal approach.
>>80893367
>He had Bucky's arm in a vise
Oh, that totally makes up for trying to shoot Tony in the face, then. Sensible reaction.
>No, and neither does Ross. That's the point.
So demand better management of the Avengers. Demand someone better than Ross.
Cap's just saying any superpowered/superskilled person can kill whoever he/she deems necessary as Bucky does.
>>80893414
The Incredible Hulk opens with Ross initiating a military strike in a sovereign nation to further a personal vendetta. Why doesn't he have any accords against him?
>>80893427
>mind controlled, not in controlof his actions
>can be subdued
>killing him would not be wrong
wew lad
>>80893414
>He have a soldier he believed in the super soldier serum to stop what he saw as a dangerous bad guy
What a monster!
>just wants to be left alone
And for people to just ignore whenever he loses his temper and attacks people.
>>80893427
He deserves due process and is at least a valuable target for SCIENCE reasons considering he has Hydra tech in him i.e. SSS and the arm.
>>80893495
>superassassin constantly turing evil
>already responsible for dozens of high profile deaths
>will resist arrest with lethal force
P-please just come with us?
>>80893443
>He DOES get caught and restrained. Then he goes nuts and almost kills a bunch of people while captive
[citation needed]
>>80893483
>Oh, that totally makes up for trying to shoot Tony in the face, then. Sensible reaction.
so, just to be clear you are saying that he deserves to die as revenge for being mind controlled into attacking someone? It's not about bringing him to justice, or making sure he can't kill in the future, it's about making an example/punishing/getting vengeance.
>Cap's just saying any superpowered/superskilled person can kill whoever he/she deems necessary as Bucky does.
No he's not m8
>>80893516
The SCIENCE is still available when he's dead.
If he wants due process he should turn himself in, it's that easy.
Resisting with lethal force, when ONLY CAP knows he's POSSIBLY a good guy again, will result in violence no matter what.
>>80893367
>He had Bucky's arm in a vise.
Tony didn't do that.
>Not his fault Tony let him out or whatever,
Cap lets him out.
>also how do you know this happens after Cap has Bucky restrained?
Leaked plot details corroborated by multiple sources.
>>80893525
>arm in a vise
clearly we had no option but to kill
>>80893509
Except Ross tried to do the SSS recreation thing and created the Hulk. And he still wants to push for more of those bio weapons with Blonsky which also goes bad.
Isn't it canon Hulk hasn't killed anyone though?
>>80893591
>Leaked plot details
>trusting leaks
W E W
E
W
>>80893495
>The Incredible Hulk opens with Ross initiating a military strike in a sovereign nation to further a personal vendetta. Why doesn't he have any accords against him?
Because Ross already has oversight and limitations. Say they're not enough but they're more than Cap has.
>>80893633
So he's a hypocrite? Seriously, fuck Ross.
>>80892875
That happrns literally everywhere .You cant just use force to solve all the worlds problems.
>>80893509
>to stop what he saw as a dangerous bad guy
if you watch the movie they make it clear it's because he wants to dissect Banner and make more Hulks. Has nothing to do with stopping anyone. In fact, he puts his own daughter in harm's way in the movie and the Hulk protects her, and yet he still tries to go after him.
>And for people to just ignore whenever he loses his temper and attacks people.
That only happens when Ross attacks him.
>>80893579
>mind controlled into attacking someone
Source for mind control when he tries to kill Stark, when Stark has him restrained.
Also, if he's mindcontrolled AGAIN he's nothing but a threat, as he's been for YEARS.
>No he's not m8
Yes, he fucking is.
Cap decides Bucky doesn't deserve to die.
Cap sides with Bucky, after/when he decides to kill Stark.
Cap won't change sides when Rhodes gets shot, which is probably done by someone on his side.
As long as Cap thinks you're right, or a swell dude, there can be NO restrictions to what situations you insert your superpowered self into.
>>80893495
>Why doesn't he have any accords against him?
Because the US does shit like that all the time, though usually through mercs (like Ross uses quite often) instead of 'official' soldiers.
In real life Ross isn't exception to the rule. 'Vigilantism' is a key feature with basically every semi-powerful country on the planet.
>>80893686
>Source for mind control when he tries to kill Stark, when Stark has him restrained.
How is that not self-defense? If some Trump-wannabe tried to kill me I'd try to kill him too.
>>80893603
When someone holds me in place, I will always have to right to kill them on the spot.
It's the right thing to do.
>>80893612
Blonsky was basically just Captain Anerica with some excess bone growth and a more dickish personality (that he already had). He didn't become a killeveryone monster until the Leader did his thing on him.
>>80886977
Yeah the avengers are kind of vigilantes. Maybe not in the first movie, but who are they working for in the second movie? There wasn't really any accountability. Normally this wouldn't matter but trying to bring in shit like Civil War where realism is starting to be a thing and it's very jarring.
>>80893713
Stark restrains him.
Bucky goes in for the kill.
That's all we know that happens.
If you defend Bucky in this scenario I'll never be able to take you seriously, so we might as well stop.
>>80893654
Where's the hypocrisy?
>I have bosses and am not allowed to do certain things
>The same should apply to you
>>80893055
>>80893302
Why is it okay for Cap to unilaterally Cap any body he wants. They didnt vote for Capping, or as for it. You cant Cap without consent.
Hell, the JLA had this storyline in the fucking silver age.
>>80893758
>guy who I know is trying to kill me restrains me
>I'm supposed to just lie back and wait to die
That makes a ton of sense. Quick question, are you British or German? Gonna make the muslims a sandwich while they rape your wife?
>>80893686
>Source for mind control when he tries to kill Stark, when Stark has him restrained.
source for that happening while stark had him restrained.
>Cap decides Bucky doesn't deserve to die.
>As long as Cap thinks you're right, or a swell dude, there can be NO restrictions to what situations you insert your superpowered self into.
Cap is only arguing for due process. Not telling people to look the other way, or condoning Bucky's actions. He just doesn't want him killed in the street. It's not "Cap thinks you're a swell guy so you can get away with anything. Cap is giving him the same consideration they gave to Strucker by taking him in alive.
>when Rhodes gets shot, which is probably done by someone on his side.
The only guy we know who can shoot mega lasers like that is on Stark's side.
>>80893071
Everything he did in Hulk was above board wasnt it?
>>80893819
That's some swell projecting.
I'm gonna need a source on that "I'm only restraining you to kill you" spiel.
>>80893414
Isnt.Cap also a soldier injected with superjuice?
Hell, Blonsky went rouge, if anything that should re enforce his fuck Capes manifesto
>>80893765
Because he did certain things like fund a fucking Super Soldier program on his own or use American military equipment to attack an American citizen on American soil.
>>80893790
>Why is it okay for Cap to unilaterally Cap any body he wants.
it isn't? He capped Hydra, a known terrorist organization with Nazi sympathies. He capped Ultron, a killer robot. and he capped the aliens invading new York. he's not just going out declaring anyone he wants a threat.
>>80893848
First trailer "they aren't planning on taking you alive">>80893765
>>80893686
Someone post the Illuminating Comics edit
>>80893765
more like
> have bosses and I go against them when I feel like waging a personal vendetta
>you should not go against your bosses even when they are trying to kill people
>>80893891
That was cleared though.
>>80893898
He LITERALLY says he is going to do that.
>>80893886
He is. And he went around Capping Nazis and Hydra dudes and then worked for SHIELD doing the same thing. And then with backing from the remnants of SHIELD and Stark going around doing the same thing.
If anything Rogers has the best track record out of all the heroes in terms of public service.
He's not some rogue scientist with uncontrollable outbursts or a black ops agent with tons of red in his ledger or some CEO of a Fortune 500 company that says fuck it I'm going to just fuck up terroist to ease up my conscience.
>>80893821
>source for that happening while stark had him restrained
Civil War trailer 2. 1:11.
Stark and Bucky are together, (stark is in business suit in crowded place, so bucky came to him) and Bucky puts a gun in his face and tries to kill him.
Stark didn't even restrain him, Bucky was just there to straight up murder him.
>Cap is only arguing for due process
No, he's angry he's denied to act whenever he wants.
>or condoning Bucky's actions
He DEFENDS Bucky. He's FIGHTING for Bucky. He's condoning his actions.
>He just doesn't want him killed in the street
Then let Bucky turn himself in.
The fact that he's Cap's friend doesn't put him above the law. If the eventual punishment is death, he will have to deal.
>The only guy we know who can shoot mega lasers like that is on Stark's side
Stark blames Cap.
Bucky has future tech weapons.
It all points the other way.
>>80888854
Have the Netflix shows remembered to shop the Avengers tower in yet?
>>80893929
>they aren't planning on taking you alive
But Stark isn't harming him. So they are taking him in alive.
Maybe after him resisting and trying to kill people that goes out the window.
>>80893995
when
>>80894042
> If I see a situationpointed south, I can't ignore it.
What do you think that means?
>>80894009
And now he is an ex soldier wanting to go Cap of his own accord like some Big Boss motherfucker.
>>80894012
>Stark and Bucky are together, (stark is in business suit in crowded place, so bucky came to him) and Bucky puts a gun in his face and tries to kill him.
>Stark didn't even restrain him, Bucky was just there to straight up murder him.
how do you know the context of half a second of trailer footage?
>No, he's angry he's denied to act whenever he wants.
he's trying to stop them from executing a guy. He goes along with the accords until then.
>He DEFENDS Bucky. He's FIGHTING for Bucky. He's condoning his actions
He defends him from revenge killing.he fights tor his right to be treated fairly. Not the same as condoning.
>Then let Bucky turn himself in.
so he can be killed with no trial? Great.
>The fact that he's Cap's friend doesn't put him above the law.
No one said it does.
>If the eventual punishment is death, he will have to deal.
That would come after a trial. and I find it highly unlikely considering Bucky was mind controlled. If legal insanity is a defense surely mind control is.
>>80894096
It means he sees that they were about to do unethical shit and he's not going to be a part of it.
