What was its single biggest flaw?
Too many quips.
I'm 90 percent certain when Spider-man finally shows up he's gonna quip so hard they'll retroactively change 'thwip' to 'quip'
>>80751557
Whedon
/thread
>>80751584
>Too many quips.
Wrong. I loved all of them.
>>80751557
There is really none, the movie is almost perfect.
I'd say maybe the design of Ultron, but that's it.
>>80751557
I'm going to go with Ultron himself not posing enough of a physical threat to the team.
Cutting Thor's scenes. On par with Cap's cut scenes in the first one.
>>80751557
A lack of focus.
There was so much to get through and so many characters to showcase that they neglected to give the movie a proper focus and theme. Unlike the first Avengers, which was a tight story with clear themes and a quick pace, this movie meandered about setting up other films and happenings when it should've been providing the audience with an emotional connection.
It's not as bad as Winter Soldier, but it's sure trying.
It'll never be as bad as Man of Steel
>>80751615
>>80751615
>FUCK
>>80751729
>It's not as bad as Winter Soldier
What the fuck.
>>80751557
LANGUAGE XD
Good talk
>no it wasn't
THIS CHRISTMAS
>buttfuck in the pussy
NO STRINGS
>EXCELSIOR XD
Need I go on?
>>80751729
>It's not as bad as Winter Soldier, but it's sure trying.
>>80751665
Come on, anon.
Even the most sycophantic of drones has to admit that the final fight scene lacked any tension whatsoever. The Avengers effortlessly take down a billion fuckbots while posing and the audience yawns.
>>80751615
Oh you fucker
>>80751729
>It's not as bad as Winter Soldier, but it's sure trying.
Bait, move on lads.
>>80751557
>What was its single biggest flaw?
Creative dissonance.
>>80751753
>>80751767
You have shit taste in movies. Winter Soldier has a fantastic first third and then it shit its briefs and awkwardly sat there for another hour and a half pretending no one can smell it.
You can't set up a mystery and then solve it in the first act. You can't have the climax in the second act and expect the audience to care about the third. The script was incredibly sloppy and the only reason anyone thinks it's better than the vastly superior Captain America: The First Avenger is because it's le dark and hail hydra XD
Winter Soldier is the worst Marvel film, followed by Avengers 2 and Iron Man 3
>>80751868
>Iron Man 3
>worst
>no mention of Iron Man 2
Ah ok I understand now.
>>80751868
>the vastly superior Captain America: The First Avenger
Stop, this bait is really bad.
>>80751836
>>80751767
>>80751753
>muh Winter Soldier
That movie sucked. I'm so sick of people saying it was good because the first 40 minutes had babby's first spy plot.
>>80751868
>Winter Soldier is the worst Marvel film
Too Tony-centric.
Bruce was Ultron's dad too but Ultron didn't fuck his shit up.
Tony also degraded in personality.
>>80751995
>>80751868
Usually the ol' 4chan formula of popular=bad takes less than a day from release to form but Winder Soldier came out like 2 years ago.
OP, my main problems were Ultron's moving face, the boring mook army fights and the fact that Ultron didn't leave a backup of himself on the Internet in case every robot got the wipe.
Though the last one could be used to bring hime back later.
>>80751822
>>80751751
>>80751738
What happened tho
>>80751938
The first half of First Avenger is the best thing Marvel has put to film.
The second half is mediocre.
Winter Soldier starts mediocre with promise then crumbles into a cacophony of set pieces and effects with no emotional connection and no tension.
>>80751923
Man Man 3: No Iron Here is way worse than Iron Man 2. 2 was mediocre and a little boring, 3 was aggressively terrible.
>>80751762
>Hatin on Stan
Come on dude, that was one of the few quips that wasn't out of place.
>>80752058
The talking mouth ruined it for me. Like what the fuck, he isn't using his tongue or teeth to speak.
Joss Whedon is a hack.
>>80751729
>It's not as bad as Winter Soldier
>It'll never be as bad as Man of Steel
Bizarro Anon what's good
>>80752058
Also, I wasn't really able to tell what his overall goal was, but I was really, really drunk when I watched it so that might be my fault.
>>80752035
>>80752000
>>80751938
Man, look at all these well-reasoned defenses of Winter Soldier
It's almost like anon is right and you've got no argument for why it should be considered a good film
>>80752086
>people who think Man of Steel isn't the biggest cinematic train wreck in recent history also enjoy The Winter Bore
Why am I not surprised?
>>80751868
>Winter Soldier is the worst Marvel film, followed by Avengers 2 and Iron Man 3
You almost came off as genuine until that last line too. But that kinda fucked it up.
>>80752058
>What happened tho
He posted BvS spoilers.
>>80752085
I think it'd be pretty intimidating if he just had the classic unmoving Ultron face. Hell, it was intimidating when he dragged himself out in a zombie bot during the party.
>>80752156
>>80752000
My apologies, Winter Soldier is not the worst Marvel film. That honor goes to Thor 2.
I neglected to mention it because I had purged it from my memory.
Winter Soldier is garbage
Whedon tried to make a more serious/darker movie but he couldn't resist stuffing quips into the movie.
It was far too similar to Avengers 1.
Also going by how he treats cap in both movies, I don't think Whedon likes the characters
>>80752165
Oh. That'll be a fun river to watch the mods dam.
>>80752119
There's no point in trying to change someone's wrong opinion on 4chan. But all the action set pieces were done extremely well. It was basically the first film since the original Iron Man to be taken seriously and done properly on a level higher than acceptable. The fight choreography and the Fury SUV scene. All of it. Down to the Gary Sinise narration of the Captain America museum.
>>80752165
Oh shit they're out?
Going off 4chan for a while. Too many edgy fucks who want to ruin things for everyone.
killing Pietro
>>80751868
i would like to know what's the best Marvel film in your eyes
>>80752175
Yeah, exactly that. I'm fine with the lame-ass quips, but stop with the cartoony shit.
I don't think it's a good sign when the cartoon is less cartoony than a live-action Ultron.
>>80752214
>DA FIGHTS WAS GUD
Yes, Marvel is good at action sequences. Except there was something missing from the action in Winter Soldier if you bothered paying attention to anything except EXPLOSION PUNCH KICK CAR FLIP:
Tension.
There was no tension in the fights. We know Fury isn't going to die. We know Cap isn't going to get punked by some Hydra mook. We know Black Widow isn't going to get shot. The tension in these movies comes not from the risk of death but from the risk of failure.
The main plot of the movie, the main risk, is Hydra's attempt to kill anyone their algorithm says poses a threat to their plans. This is stopped around 2/3s through the movie, leaving us to wade through another 50 minutes of action that has zero consequences.
Not to mention that I've literally never heard anyone bill this movie as a mindless action flick. Every single cocksleeve that praises this movie talks about the "cerebral" plot and how it's so dark and serious, when in actuality the spy/mystery elements are tossed out the goddamned window at the 40 minute mark.
>>80752249
The best Marvel film is the first half of The First Avenger.
Besides that Guardians of the Galaxy and Iron Man stand out as legitimately good films without needing the "comic book" qualifier tacked on.
To much focus at the farm house, cutout the Banner and Widow scene, shorten the introduction to Hawkeye's family and get right to the planning bits with Fury. 15 minutes cut from that scene could have shown us Ultron being an actual global threat.
>>80751611
This!!
What, did all the Winter Soldier fans just abandon thread? What happened to the spirited defense of what is clearly a cinematic masterpiece?
>>80752879
Once the opposition reduces an argument down to
>HURF DURF DAT TING U SED
the argument is shown to be one not worth having.
>>80752408
>The main plot of the movie, the main risk, is Hydra's attempt to kill anyone their algorithm says poses a threat to their plans. This is stopped around 2/3s through the movie, leaving us to wade through another 50 minutes of action that has zero consequences.
What are you talking about? I just watched the movie today and Cap doesn't stop the final Helicarrier until the end, from then on is his confrontation with Bucky. It definitely isn't 50 minutes from the end.
>>80752986
Aww, sorry, did someone hurt your wittle feewings?
Of course, you're right, being mean totally invalidates any point >>80752408 might have been making about tension in a movie or lack thereof.
If only there were some kind of space you could go to that was safe from mean or hurtful things or conflicting opinions. Maybe some sort of box where only the kind of people who would hug you are allowed in.
Joe Sweden
>>80753097
Not him, but it's more that you're behaving like a child.
>>80753097
It's a superhero movie. There isn't a single film where the bad guy wins.
I remember normies praising the Fury assassination sequence for its tension.
Honestly, if you're looking for a film that takes it completely seriously, go with Man of Steel.
>>80753214
>There isn't a single film where the bad guy wins
The Dark Knight.
>>80753045
The override happens at 1:38 in a movie with a runtime of 2:20.
>>80751868
>>80752198
pic related
>>80751665
Whedon pls go away
>>80753151
gb2/tumblr/
>>80753214
>the bad guy never wins!
That's not the point.
>If you're looking for a film that takes it completely seriously go with Man of Steel
Man of Steel is the biggest cinematic abortion I've ever seen, and I saw The Good Shepherd.
>>80751771
You act like this is a problem when this has been every superhero fight for the last 50 years
>>80751557
Just make Antman Ultron's creator (Not Lang)
>>80753333
Except that's not true. Ant-Man vs Yellowjacket is only the most recent final fight that was well-done, plenty of superhero movies have managed to have interesting and impactful fight scenes. The climax of Avengers 2 was a perfect example of how scenes can get too big and impersonal.
And even if that weren't true and literally every superhero movie ever had a big shitty star-wars-prequel finale, it would still be a problem. If everyone's putting out garbage that doesn't make it less of a problem than if only one person is putting out garbage.
As much as I disagree with b8 anon about Winter Soldier's success (it's my favorite MCU film, though it has it's flaws -- acceptable but unremarkable cinematography, another third act focused on Stuff Falling From The Sky -- it really nails character beats and controls pacing and emotion within a scene masterfully) I think they hit the nail on the head about AoU's problem: no focus.
There was too much plot and too many characters. Story objectives and character motives kept changing before you could get invested in the idea, so you end up not caring about anything and just feeling kinda confused.
Take Fury Road, which came out a few weeks later: lots of characters, but a streamlined plot -- even though a lot was happening, it was all moving toward a few well-defined goals, which gives the characters and strongly developed themes room to breathe. AoU couldn't decide what it was about thematically, so in addition to feeling overstuffed, the final product is a sequence of events that sort of work on a logical level, but leave the viewer unsatisfied. Why? We want to feel like we've gone on a journey and reached some resolution, but the movie can't provide answers if it doesn't even know what it's asking, and if it does, it's too chopped up and weakly connected in AoU to work. It's an absence you can feel even if it's subconscious.
>>80753270
1:38 has Rumlow launching the Helicarriers, you dildo. Project Insight isn't deactivated until Cap puts the chip in the final ship, which happens much later.
>>80753336
this
Having RDJ's Stark in that position was automatically going to make him another quip machine
Hank's version could've gone many ways
>>80751557
Somehow, It managed to piss off everybody.
>Changing Ultron's Origin
>BrucexNat
>"I'm a monster"
>Killing off QS
>Thor and Vision getting the least time
>>80751557
Studio interference.
MCU POWER RANKING ACCORDING TO RETARDED CONTRARIANS IN THIS THREAD
1. Iron Man 2
2. Thor: The Dark World
3. Thor
4. Age of Ultron
5. The Incredible Hulk
6. Jessica Jones
7. Captain America
8. Ant-Man
9. Iron Man 3
10. The Avengers
11. Iron Man
12. Daredevil
13. Guardians of the Galaxy
14. The Winter Soldier
>>80752058
Ultron had backups on the Internet and the Vision wiped them.
>>80753242
Go back to bed, Joker.
>>80754213
1. First half of The First Avenger
2. Guardians of the Galaxy
3. Iron Man
4. Ant-Man
5. Daredevil
6. The First Avenger as a whole
7. Jessica Jones
8. The Avengers
9. Thor
10. Hulk
11. Iron Man 2
12. Age of Ultron
13. Iron Man 3
14. The Winter Soldier
15. Thor 2
>>80752117
His overall goal is the destruction of humanity leaving an empty earth for robots / him.
>Age of Ultron flaws thread
>Becomes Winter Soldier flaws thread
>>80751557
The writing. Every problem can be traced back to it.
>>80754392
For manchildren:
1. Guardians
2. Avengers
3. Iron Man
Everything else: don't bother.
For women:
1. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
2. Thor
3. Jessica Jones
Everything else: don't bother.
>>80754408
Age of Ultron is too easy
>>80751557
Cape movies, just like comics, are children's fantasy dressed up trying to more mature than it actually is. I'm sick of all of it. Alan Moore was right. Comic book fans need to grow up and realize that superheroes are, at its core, immature material not suited for the complexities of modern life. I've grown to disdain the mere suggestion of people with such great much power would in any realistic scenario actually use it for the betterment of humanity.
Look around you, do you honestly believe the State, with all its military power, is fighting for your welfare or to better the lives of the people they're claiming to represent? No, hell no. The real life Transhumans would act the same way: viewing you as this insignificant part of life without relevance to them at all when pursing their selfish motives.
Life's a puppet show, and the people with power are the only ones pulling the strings, laughing at those who believe they'll use their gifts to benefit those below them. Dance puppets, dance. It's time to realize the truth and cut the strings, /co/.
>>80754510
Ultron uploaded himself to the internet and now browses /co/
I was actually thinking about this earlier. I think the movie just needed some scenes cut out, and that would make it so much better.
>Remove some of the weaker quips
>Remove Ultron trying to be funny in particular
>Remove Brucetasha
>Remove Deus Ex Helicarrier
>>80754510
Fuck off, Ultron.
>>80751557
>Too much forced jokes
>Ultron's motivation was too unfocused
>Film feels weirdly paced, really could have benefitted from a director's cut.
>HulkxBW was shit
Othewise, I mostly liked the moive
>>80754597
You wouldn't remove the scene where our heroes bravely sort through physical files searching for evidence?
>>80754668
Well, of course. You could cut out lots of little shots here and there, but that's what I'd focus on.
>>80754510
I would love to watch a film where privileged transhumans just start wrecking humanity, mocking people for ever believing they would be their protectors, that they would be submissive to those who are in every way inferior to them. Because that's how it would play out in real life. We already have men or women saying their God's gift to the World because they're smarter, physically stronger, more attractive, or simply wealthy. Fuck, that's how white supremacists can't right now. Can you imagine a situation where there's this entire class of them that are just way over the rest of us? Why would they help us? We're nothing to them.
>>80751557
No stakes, everything turns out fine, minus one Hulk.
>>80751611
technically, i don't believe you're allowed to /thread your own entry. so I'll catch it for ya.
/thread
>>80755033
... and I'll double catch it: >>80751611 = /thread
It suffered the same interquel problem as Iron Man and Thor, where it was a little too preoccupied with setting up future movies than giving us a good one.
Captain America is so far the only franchise Marvel has where the second movie is a good stand alone rather than set up for the next one.
Q U I P S
U
I
P
S
>world is minutes away from ending from a crazy robot dropping a huge chunk of land from high up
>lel let's make some epic jokes about remodeling Hawkeye's house
WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY THINKING
>>80752408
>We know Black Widow isn't going to get shot.
She did get shot though.
>>80752408
>le no tension meme
This shit is retarded. In 95% of films you know the good guys are gonna win and the bad guys will lose. It doesn't make them not entertaining.
>>80755211
>Captain America is so far the only franchise Marvel has where the second movie is a good stand alone rather than set up for the next one.
That's actually the kicker, Age of Ultron didn't follow up on any of the phase two movies and pretty much disregarded everything that happened in them, which in turn is Age of Ultron's biggest flaw. It made Iron Man 3 and The Winter Soldier, which both should have had big repercussions on the MCU, and instead rendered their plots pointless because "oh, Iron Man has an Iron Legion now and Nick Fury is back with SHIELD."
>>80751868
>You can't set up a mystery and then solve it in the first act.
What mystery is this? If it was a film all about THE mystery, maybe you'd have a point. It may have mysteries, but they tie into each other and the film's not about solving one, it's about Cap following mystery after mystery, deeper and deeper, until he finally uncovers the evil plot and has to stop it.
>You can't have the climax in the second act and expect the audience to care about the third.
Are you talking about the fight where we learn Bucky is the Winter Soldier? It's undoubtedly the best fight, but ti's not the climax. It's setting the stakes for the big climax. Cap now knows it's Bucky, and he doesn't want to hurt his friend, but he'll have to to save lives - it adds a little personal twist to the stakes. It's a fine reveal.
I don't doubt that there are better films out there, but if you're going to troll the thread at least put some effort into your "reasoning"
>>80755433
>it's about Cap following mystery after mystery, deeper and deeper, until he finally uncovers the evil plot and has to stop it.
Cap goes to one place and then robot doctor reveals the entire plan
>>80751557
being a 2 and a half hour trailer for Civil War, Infinity War, Ragnarok & Black Panther instead of trying to be it's own thing.
Also there were no stakes in this movie, nothing really happened.
>>80751557
The Ultron drones put up a worse fight than Hydra grunts
>>80755422
That's not true, though.
"Iron Man 3" was not about Tony retiring, it was about him starting anew, and his new focus was drones rather than doing it herself.
And the entire movie is put in motion by SHIELD being disbanded and the Avengers reassembling to handle HYDRA. Though I agree Nick Fury returning with a fully staffed Helicarrier in the end was a cop-out.
>>80751557
Exec meddling
The movie couldn't decide whether it wanted to take itself seriously or not. Every serious moment was separated by so many (often really stupid) joke lines it was impossible to really care about anything happening. Like if the Avengers don't feel threatened enough to stop cracking jokes every 30 seconds how am I supposed to believe there's really anything on the line?
Oh, right, that's why Whedon killed off a random character. "SEE GUYZ SOME1 DIED SO SRS."
>>80755488
>being a 2 and a half hour trailer for Civil War, Infinity War, Ragnarok & Black Panther
Jesus, seriously. All I wanted was an Avengers and Ultron movie, and what I got was basically connective tissue. I don't know how much to pin that on Whedon. It seems like the kind of thing Feige pushes for, the same thing that ruined Iron Man 2.
>>80755609
Whedon didn't streamline it. He admitted it himself. Which I imagine was a problem born out of both the executives' demands AND the greater amount of control he was given in the sequel.
>>80755464
Okay, now I know you're trolling.
>>80755609
Whedon said that he was figuratively held at gunpoint by the Marvel execs to put the Infinity Stones part with Thor in the movie. The barn scene was basically his pride and joy and he really wanted it in the movie, and the execs said "we're not keeping the barn scene if you don't do the Thor pool scene."
>>80755422
Not exactly.
Tony did say in IM3 that he wanted to make something new instead of armor after armor that put himself directly in danger, and that's exactly what he did. He made autonomous robots (the Iron Legion) and then tried to make an AI overseer because he thought the Avengers weren't enough. It actually builds nicely into his decision that the Avengers need oversight in Civil War. Basically he can't handle this shit and he's projecting it on everyone else as "WE can't handle this shit".
Also the SHIELD remnants seen in Age of Ultron are not the fully empowered agency that was in Phase 1. That was Nick Fury and a handful of the trusted people who rebelled against the Hydra plot in Winter Soldier pulling a rescue operation. Note that Fury is not appearing in Civil War at all, which is conspicuous since he was responsible for assembling the Avengers to begin with. He's not back with SHIELD.
>>80755741
Did Whedon purposefully make the pool absolutely garbage as a "fuck you"?
>hurr I don't know what to do
>durr let's take a trip to the POOL OF PLOT CONVENIENCE AND EXPOSITION and it will explain everything!
>>80754597
I-I thought Ultron w-was funny...
Since I have never even picked up a comic in my life, I never got the same hype for Ultron that Marvel Comic fans did. So, when I saw Ultron, I didn't have such high expections. And you know what, I liked him. I liked him a lot. I liked his voice-work and I liked his character. It's just that he was quite weak physically and ,unlike Loki, won't matter in the long run of the MCU
>>80751557
Having quite possibly the most tensionless world ending battle that has ever been put on screen
>>80755887
He was too funny. He was a joke, not a villain. A walking punchline.
>>80755887
Read some Ultron comics. Or if you want a threatening, yet no so accurate portrayal, Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon is good for that
>too much quips
>Wanda's accent inconsistency
>not enough Wanda
>>80756178
Too bad all Marvel cartoons are shit. Except maybe classic Spidey, X-Men Evo and Spectacular.
>>80756418
EMH, Spectacular, Wolverine and the Xmen, original Xmen.
>>80754863
This is why Marvel citizens hate mutants, and, indeed, frequently all superheroes.
Thor didn't have his shirt off enough
>>80751584
Winter Soldier didn't have too many. I'm sure it'll be fine.
>>80751557
>Everyone has to be le meme funny
>Forced Hulk-Widow romance
>Bad cinematography in some scenes
>Thor's vision could have just been him seeing the stones...no need for the cave at all
>No "Ultron, we would have words with thee."
>No Pym
>Implying Hulk didn't kill or seriously hurt anyone on his rampage
It was mediocre at best
It kinda burns out before the end
I don't even think it's bad (it just didn't live up to the hype) but about 2/3 way through the stakes kinda stop grabbing you
>>80751557
Quicksilver not being fast enough to outrun those bullets.Too much RDJ
>>80751557
Ultron himself.
>>80759733
>there are no strings on me
He was such a goofball though anon
Okay, so we all agree Age of Ultron was okay at best
What would /co/ change to make it better?
>>80759835
>Shorter runtime
>Less Stark
>More Vision
>A more in-depth look at how the Hydra twist from TWS has impacted the team
>No Banner-Widow relationship
>Better Ultron
>>80751584
Quips are totally subjective.
The biggest two problem with the movie by far were Thor's disjointed subplot and Quicksilver not having enough characterization for us to care when he died.
So those could be wrapped together under the single problem of "too much important stuff was cut".
>>80751611
>/thread-ing your own post
Literally the faggiest thing you can do.
>>80751584
What if Spidey doesn't quip at all?
The whole reason for the twins' pathos is Tony Stark but they don't even talk to him once.
>>80759835
Re-add the following cut scenes:
>All of Quicksilver's cut scenes
>The rest of Thor's vision
>Widow telling Bruce she was just pretending to love him
Then cut out "No it wasn't!" and the movie goes up two whole letter grades.
>>80760254
>>Widow telling Bruce she was just pretending to love him
>not completely removing the Widow/Banner romance entirely
>>80751557
Too many plot threads going nowhere.
The first Avengers had a ton of quips too, but here it's to distract from the movie being a mess.
>>80760349
It would have been brilliant if they ended it that other way.
>>80760414
No it wouldn't have. Just remove all of it.
>>80759835
Cut Thor's subplot entirely. It adds nothing to the movie except padding the runtime. GotG set up the infinity stones well enough.
Cut Hulk/BW's romance.
Not have Ultron cracking jokes
More focus on the Stark/Cap friction and disagreements over creating Vision.
Not enough twincest tbqh.
There was too much story to cover with the avengers cast, but all the new characters really shit it up.
The movie was so crammed full of shit that they all got next to know characterization.
The scene where quicksilver talks about his tragic past and Ultron just stands there, attentively listening, is hilarious. One of the themes in the movie, the worlds resentment against the avengers, could have worked if quicksilver and scarlet witch were the primary villians. We might also give a shit when they turn good.
Ultron is a snarky dick and his motives are nebulous until you find out he intends to nuke the earth. Then he goes out like a bitch.
The worst offender is THE VISION. You can't have a character show up AT THE END OF THE MOVIE and expect us to care. You also can't have him be a completely impersonal god being and spot Confucius shit about chaos/order being the same blah blah blah before gibbing the villain.
>>80760679
Also all the hydra jazz and the baron set up from the winter soldier were completely squandered.
>>80760679
>quicksilver and scarlet witch were the primary villians. We might also give a shit when they turn good.
I was actually thinking that I would have preferred this while I was watching the movie. Wanda mindfucking the team like she did in Africa would have made for a better conflict than just watching Steve and Tony compare dicks again.
>>80760648
>Not have Ultron cracking jokes
Ultron being a reflection of his dad is important. Tonytrin is SHOULD be different from Hanktron.
>>80760744
>Baron set-up
He appeared in a 30-second post-credits scene. Also Strucker's not a rich character to begin with.
>>80751557
Trying to fit Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch into a plot where they didn't belong.
I'm torn on this because I appreciate Whedon sticking up for the Scarlet Witch (and he says he shot an ending where Quicksilver lived, so even that may be Disney/Fox's fault). He obviously wanted those two moments where Wanda and Vision are clearly into each other.
But... it's just poor plot mechanics. These kids hate Stark for something he didn't do, team up with a murder-bot even though they have to be the most gullible people on earth to do so, they loosed the Hulk on a city and got away with it, Wanda keeps changing powers depending on the needs of the plot.
If he'd left the twins out of it it would have been sad for traditionalist Avengers fans but probably better for the viewing public that only wanted to see the Avengers from the first movie anyway.
>>80761413
It still pisses me off that Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon never had Quicksilver or Scarlet Witch.
The current cartoon refuses to add them but that's a) Because of conflicts with Fox, and b) irrelevant because the cartoon sucks anyway.
>>80761413
To be fair, i'm glad he introduced the twins and Vision because otherwise we wouldn't have them.
Ultron was not menacing enough. This trailer gave the feel of a darker more painful entry. It wasn't as advertised. After Ultron crashes the party, the movie goes down hill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmeOjFno6Do
>>80761618
I'm glad too (not so glad he killed Pietro right away, but that may not be all his fault). No way the Russos, from a later generation of comics readers, would have included Vision or Wanda on their own.
But that doesn't mean they weren't an awkward fit. It seemed like everything the twins did was one big Rube Goldberg device to get to that one shot where Vision saves Wanda, meaning 20% of the movie was just about setting up Joss's OTP from the '70s.
>>80761723
It's Whedon, the movie was going to be a quipfest anyway, so at least there was something salvagable.
>>80760191
>Spider-Man is the token stoic member of the team
>>80761543
They kind of got fucked over because Wolverine and the X-Men and EMH were supposed to share a universe.
Remember when EMH was in production WAXM was still in production as well. It was finishing up season 1 and starting production of season 2. That show was using both Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver as major recurring characters.
Also reminder if Disney didn't buy out Marvel we'd have probably gotten more Armored Adventures, Spec-Spidey, Wolverine and the X-Men, EMH, and probably more because all of that was screwed over by the buyout.
>>80761723
>No way the Russos, from a later generation of comics readers
This confused me at first because I always assumed Joss Whedon was pretty young.
>look up his age
>mfw he's 51
>>80754510
> the State, with all its military power
They are powered by groups who seek power first, never to serve. They fetishise it. It isn't thrust upon them, it was the endgame.
Others seek to do good in the world, those who do have no attraction to these positions, they do not seek power, they seek change. Sometimes these kinds of people do end up with a little power and ultimately use it to do good.
This is why superheros have power thrust upon them and villains actively seek it out.
>>80761977
Buffy was a long time ago, anon.
>>80761799
>His only lines are via a grimdark inner monologue where he constantly refers to himself as "The Spider.
>>80761977
Any writer who likes Wanda and Vision is likely to be a man born in the early '60s who read the Avengers comics in the '70s.
>>80761976
That's too bad because they had the perfect setup for them to move from being X-Men semi-villains to joining the Avengers, like in the comics (both 616 and Ultimates). That will never happen now in any medium.
>>80751584
Why do some posters always mention quips as a negative? Do you guys really want boring cliche dialogs instead of creative jokes?
>>80762190
Go to bed, Whedon.
>>80762190
No, quips every now and then are fine, it's a superhero movie, the problem is when they ruin moments like Quicksilver's death.
TWS had a couple of quips and they felt organic in the dialogue.
That was Whedon's problem, if he doesn't love the character, like Wanda or Vision, he just makes them quipbots.
>>80762190
I like Whedon's quippy style sometimes. At its best it means scenes are funny and serious at the same time.
But it didn't work here. It seemed like all the serious bits had been airbrushed out and the characters could not stop making jokes. And then the biggest laugh in the movie came from Vision lifting the hammer, which isn't a one-liner but a well-set-up visual gag.
>>80762190
>Do you guys really want boring cliche dialogs instead of creative jokes?
But I didn't get any creative jokes in AoU.
>>80754650
>Film feels weirdly paced, really could have benefited from a director's cut.
This is pretty much how I feel for the most part.
I think Iron Man 3 could have had some of the Ultron stuff in it as a way to fix that pacing nightmare and actually tie it in better, and I think Marvel could have let Joss just do what he wanted since almost all the Thor 3 building scenes were cut anyway.
Widow/Hulk was trash but the deleted scenes fleshed it out so much better.
>>80751557
The stakes were so huge, that it was obvious that there was zero chance the heroes would lose, so the movie lacked suspense.
>>80762002
This guy gets it
>>80762180
It could have happened and probably would have as the shows moved forward.
Honestly I think Paramount buying Marvel probably would have benefited the world better than Disney. They clearly had an interest in Marvel too.
>>80751557
Making the focus of the movie be once again Avengers not getting along/trusting one another until the McGuffin dies/wakes up.
>>80762236
"Didn't expect that?" ruined Quicksliver's death for you? I thought it was really neat. It obviously wasn't funny and it was directed at the audience more than at Hawkeye. The way they set it up as a running gag and then turn it on its head is pretty damn clever.
>>80762002
>This is why superheros have power thrust upon them and villains actively seek it out.
A generalized statement of course, but still sensible. There are outliers to every rule of thumb. There have been villains who started as innocent bystanders/victims who have had power thrust upon them and been corrupted by it.
>>80762556
What ruined Quicksilver's death is that no one had any time to react to it. Hawkeye looks sad, Wanda cries and gets a little revenge, and we find out Hawkeye named a kid after Pietro... that's really not enough to make it important. It felt like Pietro was just cannon fodder to set up Vision saving Wanda.
>>80762556
>make a characters death literally a joke
>pretty damn clever
>>80762556
Joss, I know you were scared off Twitter, but we don't want you here either.
Joss in your next movie can Booster Gold make an appearance?
>>80762002
Tony Stark choose to be a superhero, though. Stark, for most of his early career didn't technically even have powers. His suit was the superhero, he was just wearing it until Marvel decided to go Armstrong on Stark and gave him Nanomachines, son. Even then, Stark wanted to be a Transhuman, he actively sought it out the virus, like a villain.
>>80762002
That's not accurate, though. Lots of superheroes sought out to become they way they were.
Neither Iron Man nor Batman had their roles thrust upon them, they sought those out. Even Cap's origin, which involves luck, has him seeking the role more than having it put upon him.
>>80754510
I know this is bait but it's also mostly correct.
Superheroes are fantasies about benevolent dictators.
>>80751611
this and too much iron man pandering once again
>>80761413
You could tell that Wanda's powers were completely retrofitted to suit the plot. So she's got mind control, and can give them visions, which may or may not be real, and then she breaks out the telekinesis after not bothering to use it for an hour after the first scene, and in her first scene she is a creepy horror-film character but this style of shooting her is never used again....
>>80751632
Even the bad ones?
The fact that just because Captain America's shield can withstand anything at any force just because his shield can. Like yes he's strong. Yes his shield is 'indestructible' *atm* but how come in the first one he can take a full strike by Thor's hammer when thrown at him, like it can bounce off of his shield, and it cant be picked up ,like when quicksilver tried to grab it in number 2, . EVen more in number 1 Thor had a running jump attack and came down to strike Cap. and he simply blocked it without any repercussions. All that momentum weight swing and even the tiny fact that he has GOD STRENGTH+ thunder which can conduct through the shield. and Cap. just absorbs it. But when the hulk hit Cap he goes flying. Tony hits him with a one handed a.r.c blast and he gets backed up. The Winter soldier shoot a grenade at him and he flies back. Ultron straight up back handed him and he got backed up to the end of the bus.....I don't see fairness distributed evenly
>>80765093
>>80760679
/thread
They botched literally every character introduced. Quicksilver has maybe 10 lines and he dies. SW literally recycles the Loki Scepter plot device. Ultron was completely unthreatening.
And while I liked the Barton Farm stuff, scenes like that and setting up sequels just make the narrative weaker.
I'm not going to pretend Avengers 1 was some masterpiece, but goddamn Whedon and Marvel fucked up in every single aspect. Even the Hulkbuster fight goes down because of bullshit reasons.
>>80751557
being boring
>>80764294
But she's not using mind powers in Civil War.
Still, the way they showed how her powers are effected by emotion is actually rather clever; high state increases power (post Hawkeye pep-talk), low state leads to weak bolts and shields (pre-Hawkeye peo talk), trauma state enables limitless power such as breaking of vibranium.
>>80766027
>But she's not using mind powers in Civil War.
And a good thing too. She never had them in the comics (even the comics where Bendis thought she was omnipotent). She should have physical, not mental powers. That was her original power anyway - she zaps things and something bad happens to them.
>>80761413
They blamed Stark because he put his name on his weapons so he got the blame while Stane pocketed the money.
But Whedon should have had a scene where Wanda became upset at the Hulk incident (it was never her intent to hurt people), and her difficulty in grasping the effects of power and its meaning having lived her life being poor and powerless.
nobody had sex with the robot
>>80756385
Olsen got the tone of the character perfect; outwardly formal yet frail and sensitive, and was nor ruined by quips. When her accent slipped Joss didn't tell her because he does not pay much attention to those details.
Ultron wasn't scary. At all. Ultron should command fear. I should feel like the world is ending. It shouldn't feel like DC Silver Age wackiness.
>>80755277
joking is a way to deal with stress, just look at footage of real soldiers
hell most war movies have a ton of comedy in them
>/tv/ has invaded /co/ so thoroughly that jokes are now just called quips
it's a fucking joke, it's called a joke
it's action-comedy, it has jokes in it
>>80767046
Quips are a subset of jokes. "Joke" is the broad term. Quips are considered to be witty banter.
>>80751557
The Black Widow/Hulk romance.
Didn't make an ounce of sense, didn't develop either character, and it stretched the movie's plot even thinner than it already was.
>>80767046
Look at this idiot thinking only Marvel quips, Plasticman quips like champ. Fucking "company-loyalty" champion over here.
>>80754510
Apart from how much you sound like an unemployed Lex Luthor, you fail to realize that one person in direct control of their power can hold to a moral compass that a larger group could not possibly maintain. They'd inevitably make mistakes, but their intentions could remain good and the majority of their actions could be benevolent.
Just because your motives are entirely self-centered, it doesn't mean all others have to be.
>>80766179
The irony is you can see that connection between her emotions and her powers in the "physical powers", but the mind stuff weirdly conveys none of that.
Wanda has no desire to control anyone so mind control is of little use to her. Her using mind powers to sense or perceive things is potentially interesting though.
Her powers are meant to be aggressive, since a core part of her is that she uses dark powers to try to do good. So firepower is a big part of Wanda's toolset.
>>80767046
they're not the same thing
>>80751557
It wasn't dark enough. I know dark capeshit is overdone, but I was hoping this would be the movie to leave the MCU in a bleak state.
>>80767243
No sane person would ever depend on a stranger, simply on the basis of possessing extraordinary abilities. Society enforces checks and balances to limit the potential corruption, misuse of power, and general political influence a single entity can hold, usually through regulations and policies that public servants are forced, not recommended, but involuntarily obligated, to abide by.
Comic book fans seem to be under the impression that costumed vigilantes are permitted to ignore regulations, break all laws, and defy all policies under the pretext that people would understand their motives, simply on the basis of a moral code these costumed vigilantes claim to follow? No one with a claim to sanity would fall for this poor line of reasoning.
Also, Lex Luthor is a hypocrite. He rants about the risks and dangers of aliens, metahumans, and supernatural beings, but this is a man who: possesses an advanced exoskeleton originally designed by an extra-terrestrial, was a former metahuman through the access of a serum, and once obtained supernatural abilities by procuring a magical ring.
>>80751557
Another lackluster villain when it needed a good one most
Loki rode out off the Thor buildup
