What do you guys think of this incredibly hypocritical speech made by the Image Publisher?
http://www.newsarama.com/28069-image-publishr-talks-at-comics-pro.html
>We need to stop.
>If you – if any of us – are putting short-term needs ahead of long-term thinking: Stop.
>Stop stunting your own growth by doing things the way they’ve always been done.
>Stop being so beholden to the past – to past victories, past mistakes.
>Stop revelling in nostalgia for a time long gone by. Creatively, the golden age of comics is now – let’s save our nostalgia for today.
>If you are a retailer ordering more copies of a comic than you can sell simply to qualify for a variant incentive: Stop.
>Variants don’t build a lasting readership on the books you’re trying to sell. At best, they pay short-term dividends; at worst, they deprive fans of something that is limited in nature. All comics should be for everyone. Not just collectors. Not just whoever has the most cash on hand.
>By the same token, if you are a publisher trying to force your comics into the marketplace with exclusive variants retailers can only order by irresponsibly increasing their orders: Stop.
>You’re getting a short-term sales boost at best, and you don’t benefit from stacks of unsold books cluttering up the stands or being shoved into dollar boxes.
>And really, what do any of us gain by spamming LootCrate customers with copies of a book that will be selling a fraction of its first issue total when #2 ships, other than market share? We’ve all played that game, and without a clear marketing plan for how to convert those blind box copies to real sales, to real readers, it gets us nowhere. Stop.
>Likewise, if you are a publisher putting out too many comics: Stop.
>It’s a crowded marketplace.
>>80746679
>>Likewise, if you are a publisher putting out too many comics: Stop.
Mate, Image is putting out 50 titles a month. Do you seriously expect DC or Marvel to not publish more than you?
>>80746679
Hypocritical? Image is always creator friendly, more so than their first inception in early 90s. Also, they haven't put variants cover in years. He got the point, you are just gullible.
>>80746679
If wish the image heads like Kirkman and this dude would just keep quite.
we want your marketshare, so pls stop making comics
>>80746848
They put out variants. How do you think Walking Dead makes it #1 once a year
>>80746679
>Stop
Or else what?
>>80746904
Isn't that more on Kirkman approving of the practice, rather than Image?
>>80746679
>>Likewise, if you are a publisher putting out too many comics: Stop.
>>It’s a crowded marketplace.
The game can't be won that way. The market saturates itself as much as it can.
There's gonna be over 300 comic books published a year until the money for it goes away.
>>80746848
Image does do variants though
>>80746679
>if you are a publisher putting out too many comics: Stop
How arrogant do you have to be to say this?
>>80746970
Kirkman is a partner in Image.
>>80746904
The creators decide to put variants, not Image editorial. The creators decides all that shit, they have final say I'm pretty sure.
>>80747053
You actually believe that? Variants exist specifically for the market they create for consumers and retailers.
>>80746848
>Image is always creator friendly
Care to elaborate? Image doesn't have editors which means creators can get bored and complete a 30 issue long series in 10 years because they take up other projects and put that one on hold.
But really, do elaborate because Image is far from creator friendly, why do you think there's rarely any new creators doing stuff at Image? If you're not a big name your comic ends up canceled.
Also they do variants all the time.
>>80746855
>BIG THREE
LOL
>>80747124
Image is creator friendly in that they don't steal your IP.
>>80747124
>Image doesn't have editors
Source? Just because they don't have deadlines doesn't mean there aren't other editors.
>>80747149
Just because you work on Spider-man or Batman doesn't mean they're your IP.
>>80747124
>If you're not a big name your comic ends up canceled.
Isn't this because of the marketplace itself? If you're not a brand name no one gives a fuck most of the time.
Please make comics only in this box that I will define for you.
>>80747124
>If you're not a big name your comic ends up canceled
Image doesn't cancel titles, the creators themselves decide when to end their own books.
>>80747124
>Care to elaborate? Image doesn't have editors which means creators can get bored and complete a 30 issue long series in 10 years because they take up other projects and put that one on hold.
Yeah, that is the definition of creator friendly. It's just TOO friendly. It's reader unfriendly. But it isn't creator unfriendly.
>But really, do elaborate because Image is far from creator friendly, why do you think there's rarely any new creators doing stuff at Image? If you're not a big name your comic ends up canceled.
They don't cancel anything, the creators cancel their own books if they sell like shit because it comes out of their pockets.
>>80747257
Because Image asks for too much money to publish their stiff and they end up paying to create comics.
>>80747092
The whole point of Image is creative freedom and what not, I highly doubt they would force you to have variants, suggest sure but never demand.
Also the cost to make the variant cover comes out the creators pocket, I'm sure they're plenty of titles that don't have variants simply because they can't afford them/not worth it.
>>80747321
Not true.
http://www.jimzub.com/the-reality-of-mainstream-creator-owned-comics/
>>80747053
And has Image's name on it. Seriously prevent it from happening in your own backyard before telling the neighbours.
>>80746679
>Dear Retailers: I know you guys are barely scraping by, but please stop doing the things that are actually making you money.
>Dear Marvel/DC: Please stop doing what you're doing. We can't keep up.
>The market will be better, I swear.
The pretentiousness surrounding Image is why I don't read their comics
>>80747051
>>80747092
IIRC none of the other partners get money out of the other partners' books, other than the usual flat fee, so there's no financial gain for them to ask someone to do more variant covers.
>>80747450
If you understood how Variant Covers are set up you would also understand how that statement makes no sense.
>>80747172
Editors need to be able to do more than just say "You have a deadline". Its weird, you would think with all the bitching from creators about how poor editorial is at the Big Two, they would savor the chance to be able to have someone to bounce ideas off of.
>>80747392
The point of Image is that Image doesn't prevent its creators from doing anything.
If Image creators want to put out incentivized variants, Image bosses can't stop them.
If Marvel/DC bosses want to put out incentivized variants, Marvel/DC creators can't stop them.
These are their business models.
Learn 2 comics.
>>80747403
Retailers are shit anyway. Let'em die.
Wooooooow I tried to read his comics history lesson at the start of that and he does a really great job not mention the part Image had to play in any of it.
In fact he does a pretty good job mentioning image without actually mentioning image.
How to save comics everyone.
>>80747403
Stephenson:
>"Dear Marvel/DC, please stop doing things that hurt retailers."
/co/:
>"What? How dare he insinuate anything negative about our precious Big Two!? DOWN WITH IMAGE!"
>>80747124
>why do you think there's rarely any new creators doing stuff at Image? If you're not a big name your comic ends up canceled.
The comic industry is tiny and cannibalistic.
It simultaneously puts out more comics in a month than any one person could read, and yet doesn't make enough comics that anyone likes.
>>80747623
>“If we keep on our current trajectory, we’ll overtake DC in less than five years,” predicts Kirkman, who has been a partner in the company since 2008. “Then it’s just a hop, skip, and a jump to toppling Marvel.”
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/03/image-comics-quiz
People are laughing at Stephenson because the guys in charge of Image are pretentious fucks. Not because they're saying something negative about Marvel/DC. If these fuckers really thought they could overtake DC while remaining a solid 9-10% with no real growth outlets other than Walking Dead, which they're already milking dry, then they deserve to be laughed at when they start pleading to retailers and Marvel/DC to cut them some slack.
>>80747640
>The comic industry is tiny and cannibalistic.
I'd also add "incestuous", but then again that can apply to any industry.
>>80747569
They are but Image needs retailers a lot more than retailers need Image, and a lot more than DC/Marvel need retailers.
>>80747723
So you're ridiculing Stephenson for something Stephenson didn't say?
Just being honest here: It looks like you're desperately looking for any justification to defend your precious Marvel and DC.
>>80747623
Stephenson:
>Fuck you DC and Marvel, stop doing things that we're also doing
/co/:
>"What? How dare he insinuate anything negative about our precious Image!? DOWN WITH THE BIG TWO!"
>>80747910
Marvel and DC bosses force harmful shit on creators and retailers. He's asking those bosses to stop.
Image "bosses" don't force anything on anyone. Every bad decision comes straight from the creators, and Stephenson can do nothing to stop them.
That's the difference.
>>80747427
I read a lot of image shit and even I hate the pretentious shit from the image partners and fans
>>80747597
So the idea is to write thinly vieled movie plots?
Kirkman needs better taste if those are his ideas of good comics.
>>80748080
Was it Kirkman who said that? There have been multiple articles about how to "save" the comic industry by "being more like movies".
>>80747993
It's still the same harmful shit though
>and Stephenson can do nothing to stop them
You're either a retard or Stephenson himself. Or both. Most likely both.
>>80747569
>le retailers and direct market must die meme
My favorite part is that these posts never suggest viable alternatives.
>>80746679
>http://www.newsarama.com/28069-image-publishr-talks-at-comics-pro.html
This happened like a month ago and we all talked about it then. Why is this coming back up now?
>>80748177
Because someone at Marvel or DC is still angry at it.
>>80748165
But Anon, that's the whole point of Image. Creators at Image have complete and total freedom.
Bosses at Image don't interfere with the creators at all. Stephenson's job is to keep the printers supplied with ink and the staples and glue in stock and the shipping trucks filled with gas.
Image is not the dictatorship that you want it to be.
>>80748274
It's not a dictatorship but you can't tell me the guy does literally nothing. Besides, it's not the mad house you make it up to be, if the heads are bothered by something the creators do they can tell them to fuck off.
>>80748418
>It's not a dictatorship but you can't tell me the guy does literally nothing.
I just told you what his job is.
The fuck is wrong with you?
>if the heads are bothered by something the creators do they can tell them to fuck off.
They can't.
Robert Kirkman talks about this sometimes. Image higher-ups take a creative stance only at the initial pitch, but then once a pitch is accepted the creators have free rein. For example, Image rejected his original pitch for TWD, then he lied and got accepted with a new pitch, and Image could do nothing to stop him once he went back to the original pitch.
>>80748139
Yep, it's from his interview.
>>80748640
Yeesh.
>>80747203
>>80747203
Tell that to Steve Ditko.
>>80748925
I said work on, not create.
>>80748965
You have a great misunderstanding of what I am even talking about.
>>80749137
OP has a misunderstanding of what Image is even about, so we're on the right track here.
>>80749229
You asked him to elaborate on how Image is creator friendly.
I said they don't steal intellectual property.
You seem to think I was talking about work for hire, when I am not. I am talking about wholesale theft of ideas from creators that the big two have done for decades.
Image is as creator friendly as a publisher gets, there really isn't a question about it. The whole model was designed around not stealing IP's from their creators.
According to Marvel, Steve Ditko "worked" on spiderman. They will give him the credit and say he created it, but he isn't getting the money that someone who created that IP should be getting.
I just finished reading the article. Almost everything the guy says sounds good. The only fucked up thing he says is mentioning the valkyres. He either is too naive to understand how a political circlejerk is unhealthy for the industry and a massive part of the problem. Or he only cares about what the results of their work. Either way, supporting them is retarded.
That said there's nothing hypocritical in his statement, in fact he repeated most of the arguments /co/ has for the current state of the american industry.
>I’ve been turning down zombie pitches for years, but now, I’m turning down sci-fi pitches. I’m turning down horror pitches. Crime pitches.
>crime pitches
It took you long enough you son of a bitch
>>80747124
Image has little creator diversity because that's how comics work. it forms cliques based on people with similar artistic views, and, at worst, similar political views.
People who don't share the same views have no real interest in being part of the clique - this in and on itself is not bad. People who don't find their niche create their own, and we end up with two cakes.
>>80748165
I think Image is closer to an artist collective than a publishing company. The most damaging thing Stephenson can don't take comics and people he doesn't like or think are beneficial to the company, there's nothing wrong with that.
>>80748629
Eh, eventually a comic will rub people the wrong way and they'll cancel it. Or maybe they'll pull a Gaben and hold to their original values to virtually everyone's surprise. Who knows.
>>80749353
Working under contract that explicitly states anything the put on the comics will belongs to the company is stealing ideas? Really?
>>80747124
>creators can get bored and complete a 30 issue long series in 10 years
IS this a thread about Warren Ellis?
>>80746679
>Creatively, the golden age of comics is now
This is the most objectively false thing ever said about comics.
>>80746679
>All comics should be for everyone. Not just collectors.
Coming from Image that is just...
Does he have ANY self-awareness at all?
>>80746679
>>Stop stunting your own growth by doing things the way they’ve always been done.
>
>>Stop being so beholden to the past – to past victories, past mistakes.
>
>>Stop revelling in nostalgia for a time long gone by. Creatively, the golden age of comics is now – let’s save our nostalgia for today.
Someone needs to tell Big Two readers that, too. Part of the reason why DC and Marvel are the way they are is because their readers are doing these things, too.
>>80747306
Basically this. It can be pretty grating when an Image book builds some steam, and then pauses for several months so the writers and artists can build their 'brand' elsewhere for a while before realizing they have to actually make comics again.
>>80755395
I think they're just encouraged to take a hiatus for X months to build a backlog of finished work to avoid having delays for every issue.
its what theyre doing with Copperhead for example, and Tokyo Ghost is taking a month off for probably the same kind of reason.
personally i dont mind it i'd rather wait a month or two for a consistent 5 or 6 issues to come out than have a delay every other issue
>>80746679
Shit like this is why I want nothing to do with indie comics. Everyone involved in them is a self-absorbed, pretentious twat. At least capes used to be uncompromising about what they were although lately that same mindset has infected them as well.
>>80747723
>>“If we keep on our current trajectory, we’ll overtake DC in less than five years,” predicts Kirkman, who has been a partner in the company since 2008. “Then it’s just a hop, skip, and a jump to toppling Marvel.”
There is nothing false about this statement. At the time he said this, if Image did maintain their current trajectory, that is what would have happened. He neglected to mention the obvious though which is, that trajectory was unsustainable.
>>80755519
Tokyo Ghost is taking a month off to let the trade come out. Image does that with all their stuff now I think, they want the trade waiters to get the trade and then be able to jump right into the floppies the following month in case they decide they don't want to wait eight months for the next trade to come out.
I wonder if Image would still be in business if it weren't for The Walking Dead.
>>80755519
>>80756393
Another purpose of that hiauts is to give the artists some rest.
>>80756441
They would be
The reason they started getting popular again was Chew. The TWD tv show helped give them a huge sales boost but they would have survived until Saga without it
>>80756280
>The Boring Dead will oversell Batman and Superman in less than five years
>>80756643
Didn't it outsell Superman a few times?
>>80756833
Only gimmick issues that have artificial boosts in sales.
Best, most consistent and "experimental" (meaning, creative risk-taking) genreshit pblisher out there, though.
