>2008
>One of The Dark Knight's messages is that using wireless devices to spy on the public for information is bad
>2012
>In The Avengers, Agent Coulson (a good guy) says "We're sweeping every wirelessly accessible camera on the planet. Cell phones, laptops. If it's connected to a satellite, it's eyes and ears for us."
>This is considered a good thing for the heroes to do
What the fuck?
Cap called them out on it TWS
They made up for it in Winter Soldier, where it turns out that the people who do that are legit Nazis.
The MCU's focus character is a guy who crows about "privatizing world peace", so that's not really a surprise.
>>80336554
>Marvel
>heroes
Marvel civillians are pretty shitty people though.
It's a good thing to monitor them
>The Avengers
>A nuanced film
>>Nuke saves the day in the avengers
Love how you left out TWS in that scenario OP
>>80336621
The true American hero we deserve.
>>80336554
>>2008
>>One of The Dark Knight's messages is that using wireless devices to spy on the public for information is bad
Generally people interpret it as a 'necessary evil,' and a defence of the Bush administration's actions regarding surveillance after 9/11 since Nolan's a pretty conservative film maker.
>>80336554
The point in TDK was that sometimes dangerous people made it necessary The "superhero" part of it though was that Batman was a good enough person to acknowledge the situation and destroy it.
>>80336577
And Coulson was all for it until that moment
>>80336554
They called them out for this in Winter Soldier, though.
On the other hand, Ultimate Spider-Man had them defend invasion of privacy because SHIELD is ALWAYS right.
>>80336577
Yeah but they were doing it for good reason.
Seriously though SHIELD is super spooks, they work best as light grey assholes imo. They're not bad guys, they're just not white hats.
>>80336554
I always found hilarious how Coulson just strolls into Jane Foster's lab, takes all her research and possessions without even a warrant of some sort and when she says he's violating her constitutional rights all he has to say is "We're the good guys"
>>80337131
>Yeah but they were doing it for good reason.
Did you watch Winter Soldier? The people behind it were literally Nazis.
>>80337281
Am I remembering the movie wrong? I seem to recall Fury himself being gung-ho about their murdercarrier, and even defending the idea against Cap, he only changed his mind when he found out the plan was to wipeout whoever HYDRA wanted wipedout. That's still realslimshady.
>>80337281
No SOME of the people behind it were Nazis. Some were just plain old Superspies. Even if they weren't secretly in bed with Fascists, they'd likely be okay with it, Fury was the same way. That was like half the point, the only true difference between SHIELD and Hydra is one wants to straight up take over the world.
>>80337347
>>80337349
But that's the thing, they left no room for it being a legitimate defensible action on SHIELD's part. By the end the movie makes it look like they weren't doing bad things for good reasons so much as they were doing bad things because they were idiots who fell for Hydra's plot, and Cap's way was always the only way. Not to say I didn't side with him, but there wasn't a dilemma or a gray area or anything.
>>80337434
Yeah the plot moves a little too fast for any greyness to be shown, the only real way their shady ass tactics are a plus is when Black Widow had her own mission and Fury's reminiscing.
Granted even if they'd shown Fury's ways working at first it'd still be bulldozed by the end when Hydra turns it around on him. All it could ever really do is get results until it blew up in Fury's face.
>>80336920
>dat fucking Nova
>>80337434
They kind of goofed by presenting it as nazi cult run by a magnetic tape man rather then spooks doing what spooks do when not accounted for.
Still, I think point that unchecked spooking leads to this kind of things emerging unopposed came across.
>>80339953
Marvel movies are still bland inoffensive movies.
Even if they want to tackle something real like overreach of government surveillance they just say IT WAS ACTUALLY HYDRA and brush off any actual political discussion
>>80337434
>By the end the movie makes it look like they weren't doing bad things for good reasons so much as they were doing bad things because they were idiots who fell for Hydra's plot, and Cap's way was always the only way
I thought the whole idea is that SHIELD had its own well-intentioned global surveillance program, which HYDRA wanted to capitalize on for its own means. Nick Fury being on board with Insight underscores this; it's not like he was an unwilling participant.
>>80339988
The trick is to realize that if you give hydra a place to hog, hydra will hog it.
Because hydra is ultimately a temptation of tyranny. Tyranny is tempting.
>Tony in the Avengers said he hacked into SHIELD and soon will know every dirty secret they have
How did he not find out about Hydra?
>>80336696
How could you possibly think that when Morgan Freeman resigned IMMEDIATELY AFTER in disgust?
>>80342573
Because Tony thinks he's better than he is.
Hydra had a living computer protecting their shit
>>80337223
Yeah, its because SHIELD is shady af. Agents of Shit even calls this shit out on being too secretive and above the law, doesnt cause them to change, mind you, but at least they acknowledge they aren't perfect heroes.
>>80336920
I don't get why they don't use kid Richard Rider
it makes more sense with the character
Kid Nova's a dick, Sam is a dumbass, so much make him Dick again
>>80336554
Asians of SHIELD kinda addresses this.
All the files they've stolen, all of the people they've tracked, all that information now belongs to HYDRA.
>>80336554
>Dark Knight shows using wireless devices to spy on the public to save some people on boats
>Avengers shows using wireless deveices to spy on the public to SAVE THE ENTIRE PLANET
Batman is the villain here.
>>80344603
He didn't resign. He said "I'll help you do this once but if this becomes normal I'm leaving" then at the end when he put in his name the computer self destructed. Why the fuck Batman couldn't tell him the computer was set up to do that is beyone me.
>>80348024
Batman does tell him that though. Or do you specifically mean the exploding part?
>>80336554
Hence Captain America constantly calling SHIELD out on their bullshit.
>itt: marveldrone apologists not addressing the fact that coulson and all the other good parts of SHIELD were totally cool with this.
But oh no! Cap set them straight! That and their previous decades of privacy invasion.
>>80348107
SHIELD isn't supposed to be some sort of moral beacon. They do what they do to protect people. Simple as.
>>80339988
But from another perspective though, they are basically saying that the real life NSA is no different from mustache twirling cartoon nazis. In a sense that's even more scathing than if they hadn't done the whole Hyrda thing.
>>80336577
>nazis
Fury came up with this idea, HYDRA helped him and took advantage of it.
>>80336554
So was Lucius' answer to the crisis really to let the Joker continue to terrorize the city and kill untold numbers of people while Bruce found him using methods that were "morally right"?
Idealism vs pragmatism is a shaky foundation when some maniac is actively blowing up hospitals and turning law abiding citizens into murderous lunatics.
>>80337281
No, it's better. They were part of a splinter group that even the Nazis thought was too evil
>>80348065
>Or do you specifically mean the exploding part?
Yes, specifically that.
Morgan Freeman made it clear he didn't like the computer being there.
Instead of putting him at ease by saying "the computer will self destruct at the end" Batman had to be cryptic for no reason.
>>80348332
>Batman had to be cryptic for no reason
Because he's Batman.
>>80336920
>has a computer
>has a microscope
I though Peter Parker was poor
