What went so right?
>>80263332
Low expectations from the higher ups from the poor performance of the First Avenger meant less meddling from executives.
>>80263332
Good acting, great script, the single best portrayal of Black Widow's character in the MCU, really incredible fight sequences, a tightly-written suspense plot, deals with real-world geopolitical issues in a way that doesn't over-simplify them or disparages their importance.
I had a thing to say but
>>80263367
Basically this
Strong fight choreography, tension because you werent certain who was HYDRA, Zola, a better costume than Avengers, Fury's car chase, no forced romance, and Cap relating to Falcon as a soldier who doesnt feel right coming home
>>80263332
Noting, it's trash, like everything Disney does, marvel shill threads should be banned
>>80263691
I'm fine with that if the DC, MoS, BvS shill threads go with it
>>80263332
Everything up until the final act
Well, minus Falcon
>>80263423
>in a way that doesn't over-simplify them
Eh, the villains were still supernazi's.
>>80264220
Hydra didn't subscribe to Nazi ideologies, that was the entire point.
>>80264114
Objectively the worst opinion.
Good direction (the car ambush scene in particular), reasonably good acting even from scarjo for a change, and the movie respected its audience. The ending got kind of dumb though.
>>80263691
>>80263896
If all the /tv/ threads went away, this board would be somewhat enjoyable again.
>>80263367
This.
Also, it took itself seriously, which doesn't make it inherently better, but does make it a huge breath of fresh air.
>>80263423
>deals with real-world geopolitical issues in a way that doesn't over-simplify them or disparages their importance.
I love the movie but don't pretend it doesn't handle the issues in a very simplistic way.
>>80263332
That fact that it was slightly above the mediocrity of your usual marvelshit that it looked like some sort of masterpiece to capeshit movie fans.
>>80263332
Chris evans
>>80264114
I agree
Falcon sucked the cool out of this movie
>>80264742
>>80264114
You're so wrong.
The falcon was perfect connecting with Cap and trying to get him into therapy without damaging his ego and making it look like a favor.
>>80263332
Because it was the least capeshit of them all, it was a spy conspiracy flick that shits on the USA
while still blaming the Nazis and Soviets
it also came around that time when wiki leaks or leaking gov secrets was the hot thing to do
the entire movie can work as s Jason Bornue movie if you just rename the characters
>>80263367
>>80264808
Sharon Carter could have just easily done it
while giving Cap her pussy its a win win for all
Falcon a shit
>>80263332
Everything.
>>80264877
>pussy as a reward
>ever good
>>80264808
Falcon was great while just a civilian. Once he puts on the dumb wingsuit and is thus required to have fight scenes, I stopped giving a shit about him. They should have just left the character as a normal veteran guy, not shoehorned in another superhero into this universe.
>>80264836
Interesting, that out of all the MCU movies it was the most DC-ish one too in terms of seriousness
>>80264114
>implying Cap's speech inspiring the SHIELD agents to fight back wasn't cool af
not a whole lot desu, I own the bluray and watched it a few days ago and almost fell asleep. Hasn't aged well.
>>80264877
No, because then there would be sexual tension and romantic subplots happening, so that in the sequel it didn't come out of nowhere like Banner/Romanoff.
Steve needed brotherly love and someone that looked up to him as a friend, while still providing a professional shoulder to cry on and talk about. Notice how in the first conversation they have Cap is reserved and only compliments the future, like he's someone else's guest at their house. Whereas in the second time at the VA he talks about his problems, even though Falcon is still amazed and admiring him. Falcon in the comics has never been so appropriately written.
>>80264937
That's a valid opinion, but you do realize that you're swimming against the current on that end, right?
>>80264956
This is why I don't get both companies trying to do the same thing over and over. DC is doing the serious business and Marvel is doing the light-hearted, when different things work better for different heroes, not companies. Daredevil and Jessica Jones weren't quippy at all and it fit great. Guardians was quippy and light-hearted and fit amazing. Ultron was quippy and it sucked, and MoS was serious and it sucked. Meet the franchises needs, don't try to make it so formulaic.
>>80265102
>Jessica Jones
Daredevil was good but we disagree on that one
>>80265102
Yeah. I'm just tired of the constant "more more MORE CHARACTERS" thing superhero movies always get into. I practically cheered when quicksilver died in Ultron because it was one less person I'd have to keep track of in future movies.
Seriously though, every cape movie does it. They couldn't even wait three movies to start putting multiple villains into the spiderman reboot.
>>80264877
Yeah, but it worked in having Cap make a new friend just as an old one shows up.
>>80265215
Oh fuck off. Regardless if you liked it or not, you can't say it outright sucked when most people and critics liked it so much. Certainly the tone of the wasn't wrong for the character, which is what I was getting at, anyway.
>>80265216
Yeah, I get what you're saying, but this thing is on a clock. In 10 years nobody will care about superheroes, so they are trying to make it as big as possible before contracts run out, so that they don't miss the opportunity they have now.
Concerning the villains, it's all about writing and characterization. TWS had 5 antagonists, and they were all pretty good and decently characterized in just a couple of sentences and scenes in some cases: Batroc, Pierce, Zola, Sitwell and Bucky.
It's not even the Russos alone, although they help A LOT. Marcus and McFeely are very good at characterizing and show-not-tell writing.
>>80265352
Shit, and crossbones/HYDRA as a whole.
>>80265352
I suppose money trumps all, but the blatant nature of it just galls me. Vision being in AoU for no reason is probably the worst example.
>>80265463
Vision would always be in an Ultron movie. And he was handled well. The twins were more of a nuisance. Although I think that the movie had enough time to characterize them all well. It's not like they don't all have their moments, Whedon just fucked up by wasting them all on quips.
That, giving it 15 more minutes and removing the Seoul portion of the movie or using it better would give the movie enough time to breathe. Whedon just sucks and does it all on the spot, instead of locking the script early, because "his mind is restless" and he "always tries to put a joke in each sentence".
>>80263332
Don't act like you don't know
>>80265595
This is why I loved the tone of the movie. In the first watch it felt actually tense and when this happens I had a smile from ear to ear. Same thing when cap dons his BLUE uniform in the midst of the grey background before act 3.
>>80265463
1. Vision is really important to the Avengers in general, and an Ultron movie is really the only place he can come from.
2. It looks like they're rolling Adam Warlock and Vision into one character, which means he's extremely important for Infinity War.
I have issues with how he was done, but it's difficult to argue that he shouldn't have been done at all.
>>80265540
>>80265742
Hank Pym is kind of important to Ultron too, and his absence wasn't one of the movie's flaws. I'm perfectly happy with lean, focused adaptations instead of slavish recreations that drag decades of continuity into a two hour movie.
>>80265905
I get you, but there would never be an opportunity to have a 30+ roster of heroes in one frame or continuous shot.
I'd shoot myself in the foot 10 years after a lean universe for not taking the chance. I think they are doing the right thing, even if it's risky and has it's drawbacks.
With good casting, writing and directing it can be done, and most of the directors of phase 3 are really good.
>Russos
>Gunn
>Coogler
>Waititi
Are all great, creative directors. Definitely better than the comic writers, anyway.
>Derrickson
>Watts
>Reed
Are all so unknown they must have knocked it out of the park to be hired. Only Captain Marvel is missing, but there's still a long way until her movie.
Same thing for DC except for Snyder, but with a good writer he'll get in line, I'm sure.
>>80264808
Being a good person doesn't make him a compelling character. He was inoffensive but bland.
I'm hoping we'll get more out of him in Civil War but I'm not holding my breath.
>>80263423
>best portrayal of Black Widow
You didn't like Natasha 'MUH OVARIES' Romanoff from THE Joss Whedon's epic?
>>80267023
I found him charming and charismatic. The fact that he was inoffensive was kind of the point, so Cap would trust him. Like, really really trust him.
>>80267068
Man, that whole Barren business is such a powerful character trait, and so is a Hulk/Banner attraction on paper. But Whedon managed to make it so cringy and out of place. It's like they emphasize the wrong words in each sentence.
>>80263332
It's more spy thriller than superhero summer movie?
In a way it's kind of why Black Widow doesn't have her own MCU title, it would lean even further toward spy movie, which are fine of course but I assume they want to try to stay somewhat focused on the super part of the superhero genre sort of, not that Cap is quite like that either.
>>80267183
Whedon shouldn't attempt to do serious drama.
>>80267068
TWS Widow was better simply because she lacked the dumb parts she had in the Avengers movies, but like Falcon I found her TWS incarnation rather dry. Like, she didn't bother me, but I was not at all interested in her character.
>>80267290
Black Widow is kind of a boring character to have her own movie. There are other secondary characters that would be better for individual movies than her. Scarlet Witch comes to mind.
>>80267347
The problem with Whedon doing drama is that he refuses to stick to it. He literally has a "always cap off a dramatic moment with a joke" policy that's charming at first but long-term kills all tension.
>>80267382
Perhaps, again she's a spy not a superhuman at all so it would be a female 007 kind of thing, which could be fine on its own but probably out of place in an Earth with superheroes and villains starting to pop out of the woodwork.
>>80263367
Is this what happened with Ant Man too?
>>80267417
Yeah. There's cheaper, more interesting spies than her, too.
Although a Scarlet Witch movie would be kind of redundant with a Dr. Strange one, but Magic is vast enough. I'm actually really liking her ongoing, but I never read much about her.
>>80267068
>You didn't like Natasha 'MUH OVARIES' Romanoff from THE Joss Whedon's epic?
It's not the "I don't ever have a hope of settling down and having a family to leave this business behind me" angle I dislike, it's the fact that they shoe-horned it into context of a romantic relationship.
>>80267479
Ant-Man was in development even before the MCU was a thing.
>>80267720
And it does show, that movie has a lot of heart, just like Deadpool and Iron Man. You can see how the people working in the movie really liked what they were doing
>>80267825
Actually the movie was in development so much because of development hell.
>>80263332
It wasn't embarrassed by its source material, but still tried to tell a somewhat original, somewhat dark story.
>>80267479
Not even close. Ant-Man was VERY heavily meddled with. Whether it diluted a creative script or salvaged a stinker is unclear, though.
>>80267897
Edgar Wright wanted to make Pym a villain, and downplay the Kurt/Dave roles as well as Hope's, essentially making it the 4th Cornetto movie.
Feige/producers wanted Pym not to be a villain so he could still be used in universe and Wright left.
Reed introduced the flashbacks and put Peggy and Falcon in the movie to increase connectivity.
I think Wright's movie would've been a good movie, but wouldn't really fit in the continuity, and I like ant-man too much not to have him interact in the other movies. Wright also took 8 fucking years to make it, and is the reason we didn't get Wasp (Hope, I assume.) and Ant-Man (Scott) and instead got locked with Widow and Hawkeye.
>>80267068
So god damn sick to death of people exaggerating how upset she was by it in the scene, she didn't bring it up to whine and she was not doing so at all, she mearly brought it up to display another aspect of kinship with Banner she has and I thought it was a very well done emotional scene.
>>80264705
>He says as he fellates himself to MOS
>>80268711
He's not wrong. Marvel fans have been given the same shit so much that anything a bit better than the same shitty movies is amazing by comparison.
>>80268770
>he says as he fellates himself over TDKR
>>80263332
The action scenes! There was a sense of weight and physicality to them, but it also looked like something a human being could conceivably do.
>>80265046
That speech is so overrated
Like 80% of it is just him describing what's going on, only the last two lines are really of any substance
>http://comicbook.com/2015/09/02/reports-marvel-studios-cancels-creative-committee/
Is this the greatest thing to happen to MCU?
>>80268816
Rises or Returns? Haven't watched any of the Nolan trilogies, his Batman looks like shit and I refuse to watch them.
>>80268891
Just the opposite. The committee had the most influence on TWS, and the least on Ultron.
>b-b-but Bendis
>>80268951
Yeah, you're right. Joe Quesadilla is much worse.
>>80265046
Price of freedom is high :')
>>80268891
It just means that Feige has more control than ever. The chances of ever getting a decent villain are dead.
>>80267483
I feel a Scarlet Witch movie could be a dark magic realist horror thing.
I do feel Dr. Strange movies is where Wanda can be truly explored, as the Avengers is too much tacticool millitary industrial normies for Wanda to fit in.
>>80267483
Her ongoing is the best comic rendition of Wanda since Busiek era. She's actually pro-active and has characterization. Its been over a decade since she had that.
King and Robinson have reminded us how great Agatha Harkness is.
Only real issue is the chaos magic stuff in the first issue. Her relationship with Chthon is fucking dynamite ffs don't waste it.
>>80268622
This. The reason we are lumbered with the normies and the actual supes have to job to them is because Wright took 8 fucking years.
>>80269112
They should have kept the creepy thing from the begining of AoU.
>>80263332
it was basically avengers but didn't have thor/hulk/ironman to deal with some problems that wouldn't have been hard to deal with at all with their powers/tech
>>80268913
I'm begging you with every fiber of my being please please Watch them.
>>80269622
They should. The juxtaposition of her having scary powers and being a good person struggling with her power is really great.
Which is why I will be bummed if cheeky Uncle Chthon does not turn up with his creepy Darkhold midgets and demons shit.
>>80269946
As long as [s]he knows not to expect any good action.
