What exactly is the message of this show?
>it's okay to let murderers walk around because rape victims lives are more valuable than other random innocent people
??
>>79123446
>What exactly is the message of this show?
Jessica is a shitty person
No I'm not being mean, that's the message
>>79123471
How can you enjoy a show about a shitty person?
>>79123512
Most shows are about shitty people. Do you just not watch TV or something?
>>79123446
Go to bed Nuke
>>79123446
Maybe the message is life isn't black and white like you think it is, OP
>>79123567
Crime dramas especially. One wonders how they keep thier jobs.
>>79123512
>How can you enjoy a show about a shitty person?
95% of the critically acclaimed shows of the past 16 years have been about shitty people.
The two biggest shows that are currently on TV are about shitty people(GOT and TWD).
This is what most prestige TV is m8.
The message is that female showrunners are always a disaster.
>>79123446
>What exactly is the message of this show?
Are you slow? Its pretty blunt about the whole thing.
>>79123446
>What's the moral message of...
Fuck off.
>>79123512
Shitty people are more interesting than perfect people
>New York City is a shitty place to live in reality and fiction
It's pretty obvious, anon
>>79123703
Yes anon, how dare we have ONE FUCKING CAPE SHOW that is about character and the plot is basically irrelevant.
Just one show that isn't plot-focused. How dare they.
>>79123446
No matter how much you want to do good most likely you will fail, people will die, and you will still have use murder to fix it.
Kinda like running errands, you know what you need but the only place that has it is on the other side of town. So you stop at a million places closer hoping that they have what you need but they never do. Ultimately you wasted more time and effort trying to make the job easier then if you just went across town from the start.
>>79123764
>about bland cliche character and a shitty cast
Yeah, it's so great to watch a show about a generic "rough girl with tough life", her equally cliche friends and the most boring and unthreatening antagonist since The Brain Surgeon on Dexter.
If I wanted to watch a character-driven thriller with a protagonist who's an emotional wreck and an antagonist who's an outright monster, I'd rewatch Hannibal, anyway. It was more exciting than JJ could ever be despite padding pre-Red Dragon stuff for 2 and half seasons.
>>79123862
Fuck, I thought I deleted the first part.
No matter, the point still stands.
>>79123698
>GOT
Tits.
>TWD
Zombies.
>>79123911
But anon where can i get a show with zombie tits
>>79123446
>Hero dedicates herself to proving without a doubt that the villain is the villain to save an innocent and assuage her own conscience.
>Gets shat upon for it.
Yes, things went very badly, but if she just killed Kilgrave, she'd have just wound up Hope's cellmate. Hell, the DA still wanted to throw the book at her when she did kill him, despite dozens of witnesses to the affair.
>>79123446
>hurr durr i am a goddamn moron
Seriously, fuck off to /tv/.
>>79123512
Because I'm a shitty person and I relate to shitty people.
>>79124066
iZombie.
>>79124227
How dare you give a good answer to my shitposting
>>79123512
The Sopranos
Breaking Bad
Mad Men
The Shield
etc. etc.
Oh wait. I just realized that you're a dumbshit troll who pretends to not realize that a literally inescapable number of the greatest comics (and also literature and films and plays etc.) of all time revolve around fucked up, shitty people.
Walk on over to the sharp corner nearest to you and forcefully slam your eye into it.In case this fucking clown tries to pretend like I said it's a prerequisite for greatness or some other such /tv/ idiocy -- it is so fucking obviously not.
>>79123446
It's a show about addiction, she's addicted to feeling shitty.
>>79123764
We have two, actually. The difference between Jessica Jones and Arrow is that Jessica Jones is actually good.
>>79123446
Is it just me or does Jessica seem gross?
>>79124467
>Jessica Jones is actually good
This board and its low standards.
>>79126022
Because she seems like the kind of person who would have an extremely smelly and dirty cunt.
>>79126097
So only the black one would hit it?
Jessica Jones is like Man of Steel done right, because she actually tried her hardest to do everything but murder, then she sees how disastrously it goes and finally she uses her last resort. She was really trying to be a hero despite claiming that she didn't want to be one, and it took a lot of suffering for her to realize how far from a hero she actually was, at least where Kilgrave was concerned.
>>79126022
She does seem like the kind of woman who wouldn't care much about personal hygiene.
>>79126368
I dunno, I think she'd have killedgrave the first chance she got had Hope not been a thing, the moment she was out of the equation she went for the kill.
>>79126368
Except MOS was done extremely right.
And nether situation is murder.
SELF DEFENSE OR DEFENSE OF OTHERS IS NOT FUCKING MURDER YOU MOTHER FUCKING RETARD!
And a ton of fucking people DIED because she was so selfish, imagine if Superman had not killed Zod when he did and did what others have suggested he do and fly out the building, yep and GUESS WHAT? The guy that can and is willing to kill everyone on earth BY HAND is still alive and is absolutely going to get out of your head lock any moment now.
>>79128542
>Except MOS was done extremely right.
Stopped reading there.
>>79128587
Then your a pathetic coward that can't/won't defend your irrational opinion.
>>79123512
>How can you enjoy a show about a shitty person?
because they can do things that a good person can't.
>>79123625
But the series constantly shows Black and White messages. Pretty explicit ones too
>>79123512
I wanna play too
>>79123446
There's no message.
There's no moral.
It's just a story about broken people trying to deal with life.
If they'd wanted a message, they'd probably have written one. They made series instead.
There is no meaning to it.
It's not super deep with the secret meaning of life to it. It's fucking superheroes and manipulators.
>>79128672
>implying I was the person that you replied to
>implying I didn't just pop in the thread, see you sperging out and leave
Years ago on /tv/ when James Cameron's Avatar came out, there was this Russian tripfag named Abatap that would shitpost about 'Neyney' (his waifu) and he would somehow find every post on /tv/ that mentioned Avatar in a negative light and tell them it was the best movie that changed cinema forever.
It could be a thread about Enter the Void and he'd still see your post and reply to it with "0/10 Cry More".
What I'm trying to say is that more and more, every day, the MOS fans on this board remind me of Abatap. Just like 50 or so Abataps that stalk this board for any reply that dares mention their movie in a negative light, and much like him you're all really annoying but fun to watch.
>>79123446
Have you people never watched or read anything in noir fiction? Serious question. The protags are almost always fuck ups who make decisions that make the situation progressivley worse as they go along. They are more often than not "shitty" people too. That is the point, that is what the show was going for.
Also
>Constantly bitching about so called "flawless female characters"
>bitch about female character that is flawed
>>79123446
>What exactly is the message of this show?
there is no message you moron.
only shitty persons write stories for the purpose of teaching eople how to live, and only even shittier people look at stories for guidance.
I'ts noir meaning it's about someone who ACTUALLY fucked up to get where they are. The story has to be about someone who ISN'T with the good guys an instead is off doing their own thing in some seedy office because they're not accepted elsewhere.
Jessica Jones for all it's valid criticisms, her being inept is actually true to the genre and a good thing.
>>79123446
>What exactly is the message of this show?
That ugly women can get their own successful capeshit too
>>79123446
That you can make a show with 5 episodes of content stretched into 13 and people will praise you cause you dealt with rape. Damn this SJW era we've entered.
>>79123679
I watch police procedurals because I don't have to care about those people. I just want to see them solving crimes.
>>79123446
It's that if you try to do good on your own as a heroine you'll get raped, so find a strong black man to protect you and make you feel happy.
>>79130502
Oh hey buddy, haven't seen you since you were shitposting before the premiere.
Looks like you still haven't watched the show, though.
>>79126097
She wore the same damn clothes the whole fuckin' season.
The message is "Keeping a sociopath with mind control powers alive to prove someone's innocence at the cost of countless others' lives is fucking stupid and Jess is not a very well adjusted person."
>>79130374
Jessica Jones has the same problem as Daredevil that the shows feel extremely stretched at about episode 6-7, nothing to do with SJW when people are praising DD
>>79124207
I remember reading some article about this exact sentiment. The average audience is made up of a bunch of young wannabe nihilists who legitimately feel that seeing shitty protagonists doing shitty things "connects" more to them and shows a "better" understanding of the "real world".
Jessica needs to go to trial for murder
>>79123446
They didn't have one, they had a 'theme'. They also thought that so long as the theme was in your face and 'controversial', you wouldn't think about the actual plot enough to realize the fact there's a second half is only possible because all of the main characters and side characters, not just Jessica, were so hopelessly stupid they would wander out into traffic if they didn't have more episodes to needlessly pad out.
I don't know who's bright idea it was to have Killgrave escape that holding cell in that way, but whoever they are they need to thank the stars that people don't think too hard about this show's plot.
>>79123446
>What exactly is the message of this show?
Trauma is fucked up and complicated. Seemed fairly self evident to me.
>>79123446
>>it's okay to let murderers walk around because rape victims lives are more valuable than other random innocent people
what the fuck are you on about?
>>79135519
The entire conflict of the show is
>We can't kill Killgrave because we need him alive and to prove he has superpowers so we can prove Hope didn't really have control when she shot her parents. Now, while we're doing this completely non-lethal takedown, Killgrave is killing a lot of people and putting them in the grave.
Of course, this becomes completely retarded when they learn
>Oh, hey, his powers are a virus. It's a biological, scientifically provable, easily understandable thing that could be gotten from a corpse if they needed... or a fetus, even! Hey, what do you know! We don't have to keep him alive anymore, we can prove this with science!
But everyone is thicker than the padding to this show, so it never occurs to them.
>>79134651
Daredevil's pacing was great though. Sure the last episode disappointed to the rest of the season, but it was pretty goddamn great overall.
JJ should have been over right after she got Killgrave.
>>79135519
It's the new trend with pseudointellectuals where they think pointing out the main character's flaws, even when the dichotomy of said flaws are the overarching theme of the show, makes them seem smart.
Cause le empathy is a mistake.
>>79129508
0/10 you're just butthurt.
>>79135153
Why, to waste New York taxpayer money on a case where they'll never be able to convict? Fuck you.
>>79129878
lol are you retarded?
>>79136014
Kek.
I miss him so much.
>>79134651
DD had a much better director. Great visuals always make a better show or movie. Also helps that charlie cox plays a much better angst ridden protagonist than ritter. Probably cause hes irish
Here's what I don't get. Why is new york the exact same as ours? Aliens have invaded, gods have been revealed to exist, a robot dropped a city, and iron man has a bunch of robots flying around fighting crime. This story is like x-men in comics marvel, it doesn't work in a shared universe
>>79123446
>>it's okay to let murderers walk around because rape victims lives are more valuable than other random innocent people
How about It's okay to value your own closure and sanity over other people? How about its okay to value justice over the easy way out for once? How about it's okay to admit that mistakes you think you have made are out of your control? How about it's better to have someone pay for their crimes instead of just killing them and expecting everyone to pretend nothing happened?
If you didn't get any of the messages being blatantly driven home by this series than I'd strongly recommend sticking to comics.
>>79136630
I don't...understand what you expect to be different.
You do realize if an alien lands in your city tonight, three years from now you'll still expected to go to work at your mundane job, right?
>>79123567
>Most Marvel stuff is about shitty people
ftfy
>70 replies to "why is this drama show not like my after school special?"
>>79136993
>Batman isn't a shitty person
>>79136993
you're right
Marvel stuff is for people who actually enjoy good stories about complicated people while DC stuff is for children who need a "message" at the end of each episode
>>79123446
>>it's okay to let murderers walk around because rape victims lives are more valuable than other random innocent people
What murderer got to walk around?
Jess herself? Killing a mass rapist and murderer while he was in the midst of his crimes is justifiable homicide.
And that's not even getting STARTED on the argument that he's not REMOTELY containable by the MCU justice system.
>>79135655
It goes further than that. There is no actual way for them to prove Killgrave can mindcontrol people in a court of law. And even if they managed that, there is no way for them to prove that Killgrave was using his powers on the people in question. Not without intentionally exposing people to Killgrave's powers.
>>79136889
Except that they didn't value justice, or not taking the easy way out, because in the end she just did the wrong thing and took the easy way out anyway. The only difference was because she waited so long the body count was a lot higher.
Bad things happen to people who cross the path of superheroes and villains.
>>79137078
He is a bit rude but I wouldn't call him shitty
>>79130374
>>79134651
The difference between JJ and DD was that DD had more villains with their own deals and infighting.
JJ had TWO. Maybe three if Doc andNukeare not treated the same.
>>79137276
And the show doesn't pretend she made the right choices. Both most of the cast and Jess herself hammer in that she's a shitty "hero".
>>79137140
>Marvel stuff is for people who actually enjoy good stories about complicated people
Iron Man is a dipshit because he's rich and drinks constantly. He ruins his friend's lives but he's never punished for it because everyone likes his jokes about Twitter.
Yeah that's real fuckin complicated
>>79137236
They let Killgrave walk around. Had him spotted at like ep 5, Nuke was ready to assassinate him, but they decided to hold off because surely they'd eventually figure out some way to use him to help Hope.
>>79137446
>Iron Man is a dipshit because he's rich and drinks constantly. He ruins his friend's lives but he's never punished for it
Just like Batman
>>79137276
You are only looking at it through Jessica and that's what's stopping you from seeing all the messages
Jessica was trying to stop Killgrave without killing him to get that chick out of jail but what about when the chick killed herself so Jessica wouldn't have any reason to keep him alive? Was that the easy way out for her? Was she not valuing justice over her own life?
Either way you seem to just be looking for faults in a very blunt series message wise so you are either stupid or have too much time on your hands.
>>79137275
>There is no actual way for them to prove Killgrave can mindcontrol people in a court of law
Before or after the parents reveal? Because afterwards would be a snap. Literally just get some of the virus he's omitting and take it to a lab, they can see the effects on humans in no time at all. It would be super fucking easy, especially with those tapes showing how he acquired this unique condition. Like, two minutes, tops.
>And even if they managed that, there is no way for them to prove that Killgrave was using his powers on the people in question.
They could prove Killgrave for certain had sex with Hope, as... you know, baby. Baby fetus. And then they prove he can control minds, and then they use those 'clues' he left for Jessica to show they were together at the time, and bam. Case closed.
>Not without intentionally exposing people to Killgrave's powers.
Unless he's still in that nice, cozy cell where they get samples of the virus from him and, once his abilities are proven, they can take the proper measure to have him contained and then that nifty support group can come together and get justice.
Not that it matters, I guess. The lawyer still had to take a healthy dose of stupid to either not believe he could mind control someone in which case she was letting him out for no reason, or believed he could control you just by being near you and took no precautions despite being in the same room as the guy who your associate says raped her and made a bunch of people kill themselves when he escapes.
Pretty much absolutely everyone had to be the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet for this not to be over.
>>79137446
we're talking about Marvel or...?
I find it kind of interesting that Daredevil is a show about a hero who is determined to kill his nemesis and then realizes that it's better to bring that nemesis to justice, whereas Jessica Jones is a show about a hero who is determined to bring her nemesis to justice and then realizes that its better to kill them.
Since the next season of Daredevil is pitting Matt against Frank as moral opposites in how they handle crime, I'm almost positive this is the lead-in to some sort of moral conflict between Matt and Jessica in Defenders.
>>79137463
They didn't let him walk around.
Do you know how stupid it would be to go to a police station with a corpse and be like "Yo, this guy mind controlled my friend to kill her parents"
Granted it turned out to be all biological but how would they know that? Would they even know what to look for or how to test it?
>>79137623
The Lawyer let him out because she wanted to use him to get her ex wife to not sue her. They covered that.
>>79137507
When did Batman ever ruin someone's life?
>>79126368
>This show does exactly the same things that I spent the last two years shitposting about MOS for.
>But it's Marvel, so it must be good!
>>79123567
This
House
Breaking Bad
30 rock
Etc
>>79129878
You know they didn't make you read 1984 and Lord of the Flies in High School to have fun, right anon?
Like, they taught you what "themes" and "motifs" were in English class, right? Great Gatsby? Scarlet Letter? You read all of these around ninth grade. You spent at least a class analyzing what the author was trying to convey in these works. Don't be dense.
>>79137623
The virus itself wouldn't be enough, as it'd be isolated from Killgrave. Proving Killgrave had sex with Hope just proves he had sex with Hope. Even if you could prove he had mind control powers, you couldn't prove that he used his mind control powers. You'd be building a circumstantial case that hinges on a guy having mind control powers. They'd have been better off trying to get him on stalking charges against Jessica.
>>79137737
Right, but again, it's still a massive gap of logic because
>A, she doesn't think he has mind control powers, in which case what the fuck is he going to do?
>B, he does have mind control powers, and she remains IN THE ROOM after sabotaging it. With no protection. From the guy who you now believe made people kill themselves by talking at them and now know does not leave traces of himself because that's what Jessica said.
Again, no matter which way you look at her actions, they make no sense. What was the plan? Let him out, hope the rapist/murderer doesn't use the powers you are now convinced he has, and then, what, just wait for him to go kill his Ex-wife because Jessica said there's a 12 hour time limit?
How bad can the screenplay possibly be when you actually write
>And then the character decides to hang out after sabotaging the cell containing the guy who can make her kill herself by talking at her.
What was she going to do, watch him and make sure he followed though?
>>79137759
When he couldn't sit through an opera for 30 more minutes.
>>79137837
>failing comedian gets pushed into acid
>becomes crime lord who literally cannot be stopped
Wish I could get out of prison constantly just for a skin deformity
>>79137906
She figured that it would be a straightforward deal - I do this for you, you do this for me.
>>79137759
he turned a poor schmuck conned into a red hood into the joker
>>79123446
Life is tough and life is dirty. Don't let it get you down.
What do you want?
>>79137759
Literally everyone he has ever come into contact with.
>>79137885
> You'd be building a circumstantial case that hinges on a guy having mind control powers.
Yeah but if a woman accused a man of rape and then her lawyer proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the man she was accusing of rape emitted pheromones that allowed him to command anyone to carry out any command he gave them, that circumstantial evidence would be more than enough to convince a jury of average citizens - especially ones as alarmist and mistrustful of superpowers as the Marvel general public - that the crime had been committed.
Don't try and tell me that a jury wouldn't go for that.
>>79137979
So, again, why does she stick around? What is she gaining by being there? Why is she not taking any precautions knowing what he can do to not be in the area to get mind controlled?
Let's pretend the deal makes sense for a second, and that she thinks he's a standup enough guy he will deliver and not just kill her, why stick around? What does she get out of that? She knows it's futzed. She futzed it. Either he's going to go through with it or he's not, and her being there isn't going to help one or the other.
But, of course, without this bit of stupid ball, he wouldn't escape.
>>79137885
>The virus itself wouldn't be enough, as it'd be isolated from Killgrave.
No, no it wouldn't it would have his DNA all over it. Because clearly they're going to take it from a blood sample. It would be distinct for him, and hey, mind control virus in that blood. What do you know.
>Proving Killgrave had sex with Hope just proves he had sex with Hope
And that he had mind control powers. Which means there is suddenly very reasonable doubt that an otherwise stable girl shot her parents.
>. Even if you could prove he had mind control powers, you couldn't prove that he used his mind control powers.
You could prove he, with his mind control powers, was in contact with her from the length of the now scientificly proven limits of said mind control powers, and very easily build a case of doubt as to if the guy who a support group of people says made them do fucked up shit made her do something like shoot her parents.
> You'd be building a circumstantial case that hinges on a guy having mind control power
Which would work out way better because the jury would be like "OH SHIT HE CAN CONTROL PEOPLE LOCK HIM UP FOREVER" because that scares people.
>>79137507
>Batman
>never punished for it
Whaaaaat? Everyone threats him like shit and calls him out constantly
>>79138223
>Because clearly they're going to take it from a blood sample
Who says it's in his blood?
Secondly, the virus makes people obey him, specifically. Without Kilgrave himself giving commands you couldn't prove that the virus does anything.
>And that he had mind control powers.
Not at all.
>>79138091
Said lawyer would also have to prove that said rapist was aware that he was emitting pheromones and exploiting that emission for his own ends.
>>79123446
Never, ever involve a support group in your personal life because, while they'll help initially, eventually they'll invite themselves into your business and ruin all your progress because you proving that the problems you all face can be overcome in direct and calculable ways shames them and their inability to do so in their own lives. Eventually they think they know what's best for you instead of coming to terms with the fact that the you who needed them and the normal, functioning you are two different people and one of those people doesn't have a personal stake in coming back for the rest of their fucking life.
Or maybe that's just me projecting.
>>79138091
Proving that he has them does not prove that he used them. Plus the method by which it's been suggested they prove he has powers is illegal in and of itself meaning that it's inadmissible as evidence. And the method suggested hinges entirely on them isolating the virus, exposing a test subject to it, and then Killgrave controlling the test subject. It hinges on Killgrave proving their case for them. All he has to do is sit there doing nothing and all they can prove is that he's a medical curiosity.
>>79123567
Daredevil wasn't about a shitty person and it was a lot more enjoyable.
>>79123446
>>79123471
I label this show as a B so it doesn't seem like I'm hating it irrationally, but goddamn did Jessica pull some stupid shit over and over. I don't feel like she's a shitty person as much as she's a dumb person.
>>79123698
>The two biggest shows that are currently on TV are about shitty people(GOT and TWD).
And wew, look at that I don't watch either of those shows. Basically normies relate to shitty people because normies are usually shitty people trying to desperately cover it up.
>>79138373
>Who says it's in his blood?
The parents. And us, when we say his veins turn purple.
>Secondly, the virus makes people obey him, specifically. Without Kilgrave himself giving commands you couldn't prove that the virus does anything.
Yeah, because there's absolutely no way to prove a virus is attaching itself to anything in the brain of a human, and what parts of a brain it is attaching itself to, and what effect it's having when it attaches itself. That's not something we've been doing for over 50 years. Oh, wait.
Fuck, they don't even have to make him say a command, they could literally map every single part this virus is taking over. Or, I don't know, his parents could explain how it works? And then they show those videos that shows how he got it? And then that support group could confirm it's effects? And then she could prove he had mind control powers better than someone acting on camera could ever dream of and maybe even figure out a retrovirus so he could be stripped of his powers and locked up in buttfuck prison?
With the virus and a steady supply of blood, proving what it does is crazy easy.
>>79138545
Shitty people make for stronger protagonists because there's more to work with. Characters like Rey are completely uninteresting because we know that they'll always make the right choice and come out victorious.
>>79138545
>Daredevil wasn't about a shitty person and it was a lot more enjoyable.
Like a solid third of the show was following Kingpin around.
>>79138683
>Characters like Rey are completely uninteresting because we know that they'll always make the right choice and come out victorious, unless the story understands the total competence and infallibility of their main character and builds itself around that
Thats how you get stories like Red Son or ASS.
>>79123446
Nuke was right. Jessica isn't a hero. That's the message I got.
>>79138375
Even if he wasn't aware, it would get Hope off the hook, and then the rest of the support group and Jessica's own testimony could bring the full fear of the jury on the guy, they'd hang him just out of the possibilty.
>>79138539
>Plus the method by which it's been suggested they prove he has powers is illegal in and of itself meaning that it's inadmissible as evidence
Extenuating circumstances(in which case that there was no other possible way to obtain this evidence) would allow them to re-test him for the virus and then continue on that way, with the knowledge that yes, the others would be tried for their actions though almost certainly they would have gotten off on light charges.
>And the method suggested hinges entirely on them isolating the virus, exposing a test subject to it, and then Killgrave controlling the test subject
Why the fuck would you ever need Killgrave to control them? You have the virus! You can see where it's going, what it's attaching itself too, what parts of the brain it's attaching to and with proper stimulation what it does. You really think his voice is needed? It's a damn virus.
>It hinges on Killgrave proving their case for them. All he has to do is sit there doing nothing and all they can prove is that he's a medical curiosity.
A medical curiosity with a virus that goes for specific parts of the brain.
And, again, we have ways to stimulate outside effects, he can just rot there in jail all he wants. They don't need him when they have the actual sample, they can fake literally every part of what he is in order to test it.
No, the dumbasses that is our main cast hinged everything on Killgrave proving their case, as if he had shut up with his parents they were fucked. The other method takes him out of the equation entirely and puts the case in the hands of provable science.
>>79123512
That's such a stupid question, I can't even dignify it with an answer.
>>79137339
He' pretty shitty in any Crossover stuff, considering the way he treats his friends.
>>79123862
>>79123703
>Yeah, it's so great to watch a show about a generic "rough girl with tough life", her equally cliche friends and the most boring and unthreatening antagonist since The Brain Surgeon on Dexter.
>The message is that female showrunners are always a disaster.
If we're talking about females and messages in the show think about this...
Kilgrave's biggest sin it seemed was him trying to be a nice guy for Jessica. Telling her he loved her and trying to win her over. That was played off as much worse than his other evil things, which seemed like they were making him extra, super evil so you wouldn't notice the following:
>Message: See girls any guy who's nice too you is secretly an evil rapist! Especially if he's skinny and dweby looking.
And Trish's not-boyfriend?
>Message: See girls not all guys are to be trusted, they're all just waiting to turn into monsters. No amount of apologies will ever change your mind on this, because you're a girl and fuck listening to reason!
And Luke Cage?
>Message: See girls the "hot" buff guy who you barely talk to is actually the best one. You can tell because we've had multiple females say he's hot and that means he's a good person!
Oh look, their characterization follows their sexual selection preferences to the letter.
Thank Galactus all the actors were actually good and brought some life to their characters so they didn't becoming cardboard cut outs for a feminist soap box.
>>79137666
Holy shit Satan, that's fucking poetic.
>>79138947
I think you're reading too much into this.
>>79124121
The problem with that is that this is the GODDAMN MARVEL UNIVERSE. This is why they had a shared universe. Where the fuck is SHIELD? They keep running tabs on anyone even suspected of having super powers.
But nope, no one will believe this mind controller exists despite a TRAIL of bodies he leaves behind. I mean, nevermind aliens just attacked, Ultron just Ultron'd. These are public enough knowledge to where a mind controller with serious blood around him doesn't seem to far fetched.
They seemed to briefly glance over this fact.
This show just had too many plot holes like that.
>>79138947
I mean, I thought Luke Cage was well done, but you're pretty right about all the white guys in the show being psychopaths or impotent man-children. The fact that no one pointed out that if they had just listened to Simpson from minute one post-mind control, about 2/3rds of the show's fatalities would have been avoided pissed me off to no end. Just have him say a quick "I don't want to say I told you so, buuuuuut" or something. Anything. Fuck.
>>79138947
Projecting really hard.
Seek therapy.
>>79124311
> I just realized that you're a dumbshit troll who pretends to not realize that a literally inescapable number of the greatest comics (and also literature and films and plays etc.) of all time revolve around fucked up, shitty people.
And there are plenty of comics, literature and film that revolve around GOOD people doing GOOD things. The protagonist can't be too shitty because then the audience stops caring about them altogether.
>>79138602
You don't understand how viruses work, do you? For starters, in order to see that the virus is attacking brain cells they'd need to do a biopsy. Brain biopsies are a highly invasive and risky procedure that would only prove the presence of the virus in brain tissue. In order to do what you're talking about, you'd need Killgrave actively mindcontrolling someone while you're running brain imaging scans on that person. Again, unless Killgrave is actively aiding you in proving he has powers, all you have is a bunch of claims that can't be proven and a guy who you've kidnapped and assaulted.
>>79138683
Yeah, this. Heroes don't need to be 'shitty,' but at least flawed.
>>79139149
Kilgrave was keeping a pretty low profile. And secondly, think about the number of false positives SHIELD has to deal with - In this series itself, bringing up mind control prompted a bunch of people to lie and claim they had been mind controlled into doing shit.
>>79137876
Nah this is fucking /co/ and they seem to always want to have this anti-intellectual attitude towards fucking everything. I've see that post in some form all the time. The idea that you're not allowed or supposed to take away any kind of meaning from anything. It's really childish nihilism.
>>79130566
I watched the show. He's right.
>>79126022
Yeah I love how her apartment kept getting trashed, had a dead body in it for hours, etc and yet it didn't phase her one bit. It was retarded. Apparently corpses don't stick or attract flies in the Marvel universe. They just sit there waiting for someone to not call the cops for whatever retarded reason they can write.
>>79138887
>they'd hang him just out of the possibilty.
You don't have any idea how the legal system actually works, do you?
>>79123446
She only killed him because it was literally the last resort. With powers like his, putting him on trial would be useless because he can control the jury, lawyers, and judge with them. He would continue to hurt more innocent people free. His death was the only way to truly stop it.
>>79135386
It wasn't until the last episode someone thought.
"Oh wait, what about using EAR PLUGS."
Like fucking seriously. It took them that long to think "maybe we should try not hearing him?"
>>79139327
I think the post-Ultron MCU is where the general skepticism about superheroes ends. Metahumans are common knowledge now, they're a fact of life. When Falcon fought Ant-Man he never paused for a second to say "Oh shit this guy can shrink, what?" he just rolled with it.
>>79126022
She didn't wipe her poopy butt in the first episode.
Then Hope wet the bed in the same episode.
That one little girl and fence boy also peed their pants.
And I think Kilgrave's dad did, too.
Was the showrunner trying to tell us something?
>>79139288
>You don't understand how viruses work, do you?
Neither do you if you don't know we can actually dye the things. The procedure you are describing is only used when you don't know what is inside of someone, and need to find it that way. In this case, they have the virus BEFORE the injection and before it enters into the bloodstream, a simple radiation dye and you can literally track the damn thing as it goes through the blood. Your method is only if the virus is already in there and it's too late to alter it.
> It hinges on Killgrave proving their case for them. All he has to do is sit there doing nothing and all they can prove is that he's a medical curiosity.
Again, it is very easy to simulate anything Killgrave can do, literally all of it, you don't need him there at all.
>Again, unless Killgrave is actively aiding you in proving he has powers, all you have is a bunch of claims that can't be proven and a guy who you've kidnapped and assaulted.
Again, opposite. The scientists are the ones who are proving that yes, there's a virus, it's going to these places in the brain, and with ____stimulation it does ____. And we have a huge list of people who can describe it's symptoms. And we can prove that this man is ALSO the man who slept with the woman who she says mind controlled her.
Or, if you're the dumbass heroes.
>Hey, let's catch him on camera doing it, that can't be faked, right? Totally admissible evidence and not something we tortured someone into doing!
>>79139763
That was pretty much the only instance of someone going into the situation aware that Kilgrave would try to mind control them.
Also, non-verbal commands work.
>>79135655
Dude that last sentence didn't occur to ME. But you're right. Goddammit now I feel dumb for not noticing that.
I did think however, when they found his parents that they could easily use them to explain the science behind it.
>>79139791
But the number of people who would lie about a guy with superpowers doing something would make such a claim just as baseless as it is now.
>>79139673
>Implying people haven't been sent to jail on completely bogus charges just because the jurors were terrified of them thanks to the police testimony.
One of us doesnt't.
>>79135655
Dude that last sentence didn't occur to ME. But you're right. Goddammit now I feel dumb for not noticing that.
I did think however, when they found his parents that they could easily use them to explain the science behind him. They got the audience thinking legally because they had Hoocarth there talking legal jargon the entire time. And yet time after time the audience could see a way out of their predicament more than they could.
>>79139571
Obviously haven't cause he's not.
>>79139288
>A biopsy
>For a virus they are injecting and studying
I can't.
Here.
https://www.acrin.org/patients/aboutimagingexamsandagents/aboutimagingagentsortracers.aspx
The sad part is that you keep arguing why them trying to film is dumb, but you think it's working on the provable thing.
>>79139806
I've said it before, but holy fuck they should have left that ambiguous. It makes everything they do seem so forced and fake and not natural at all, that they had to do this simply because they needed X thing to happen because otherwise the show is over. It wouldn't have been so bad if the method they were trying at least made sense, but why did they think the audience would accept "Sees it happen on camera when the guy is trapped and in terrible conditions means she's right" in a court of law, and not think about just testing the guy for a brand new virus his parents, who are scientists, can easily explain. It works so much better if they just have the scientists say a line like
>"I don't know if the treatment did this to him, if it gave him this power or if it woke up something inside of him that had it all along."
At least that way there's some parallels with Jessica and they're not sure.
>>79138887
See the thing you don't seem to understand is that most people have lots of viruses and bacteria in their system at any given time that have no apparent effect. It's a HUGE leap to prove a virus that just sits in the brain causes mind control, and it isn't the kind of thing that could be proven in any short amount of time. Additionally, how do you detect that the virus attaches to certain parts of the brain in the first place? Multiple aggressive biopsies of their grey matter? Infect someone then dissect their brain? Neither would show it actively controlling the brain either, because it only works when Killgrave makes someone do something. How would you even keep him in jail while you prove this. What charges? "He's like the devil, he asked me to do bad stuff and I HAD to" would not be the kind of thing that would get him locked up indefinitely while all this testing went on.
>>79137140
>for children who need a "message" at the end of each episode
You sound like a child yourself. A teen who's getting his first nihilistic angst and doesn't want to be associated with that kiddy stuff anymore.
>>79123446
The message was...
Kill superpowered murderers before they canhurt OUR BOYS
>>79137623
>Like, two minutes, tops.
Not to mention they had to convince a JURY. A jury of people selected from a city that gets attacked by aliens and monsters all the time.
Showing what evidence they had, that could of been an easy sell. People are superstitious and most people are what I call wax poetic about the paranormal. They WANT to believe.
>>79137666
Yeah could eye anon. I was disappointed when Matt didn't show up in JJ. What's the point of a shared universe again? Well at least we got night nurse and we got a decent explanation as to why bringing DD in might make things worse.
I would of appreciated a reference though. Especially since they were dealing with a main character who is a lawyer. Hell, that blonde lawyer from DD could of been working for Hoogarth. Or when Jess asked her to take cases pro bono she could of said "Do I look like Matt Murdoc?"
SOMETHING?
>>79138091
Also people get put in jail for rape they didn't do all the time. Only in feminist fantasy land is rape not taking seriously. In the real world, if a woman says "rape" at all law enforcement automatically believes her.
>>79140598
This is so dumb it's going to take two posts.
>See the thing you don't seem to understand is that most people have lots of viruses and bacteria in their system at any given time that have no apparent effect
Yes, but they don't affect very specific parts of the brain, and they certainly don't leave a laundry list of people who describe very specific circumstances and can be proven to be emitted and airborn.
> It's a HUGE leap to prove a virus that just sits in the brain causes mind control,
Unless they have a scientist pair who can explain to them what it is and how it works and a bunch of people who can explain the symptoms, you mean.
> and it isn't the kind of thing that could be proven in any short amount of time.
It absolutely could, you're dead wrong on that one.
> Additionally, how do you detect that the virus attaches to certain parts of the brain in the first place?
Tracers can see it. It would literally, not figuratively, glow when you used it with an MRI. You would see it glow, and since smart people know what parts of the brain are what, they could probably put it together.
> Multiple aggressive biopsies of their grey matter?
Seriously, let go of the biopsies, they're not needed when you can put a damn tracer on the thing before you put it in someone. It would be dumb for a scientist to go that far.
> Infect someone then dissect their brain?
What are you not getting?
>Stain virus with tracer
>Stick it in subject
>MRI patient
>Oh hey, look at this comprehensive map of exactly what parts this thing is attaching itself to we now have, and how long it stays there.
> How would you even keep him in jail while you prove this.
Scientist parents give testimony to what he's capable of. Witnesses/victims come forward to corroborate it. Examination takes place. Scientists are confirmed. Done. That's it, they can prove it from there.
1/2
>>79141399
And you know what? You know what the absolute worst case scenario here is? You keep hinging on "Well, Killgrave would have to command it", trying to ignore the other stuff. But here's what the real worst case scenario is
>We have a scientist pair describing your virus, a conformation MRI that said virus is in these parts of the brain that would be needed for completely control, witness testimony that it worked this way for them, and we can confirm you, specifically, were sexually active with a woman who claims that you mind controlled her. However, all that evidence isn't enough for us, so we have kept you in an isolated room, and are giving you a chance to prove you are innocent. Just tell our volunteer officer, who we have confirmed is infected by your virus you are emitting, to slap himself in the face, and if nothing happens, hooray!... Tell him to do it.... go on, one command, and you go free... no? Huh, that's odd. He's got assurances that he can go free despite all this evidence, and he's not doing it. Well! We can't call him suspicious for that, because fifth amendment, however, there is a mountain of evidence right over here and oh hai Shield.
And that, remember, is worst case scenario.
They went with "Make him tell his parents to kill themselves and catch it on camera, which is proof."
>>79138683
I know this but there is a thick line between "flawed" and "practically the villain themselves" and a lot of people can't seem to figure out where that line is, they just end up making an unlikable protagonist you have to endure.
>>79141452
>They went with "Make him tell his parents to kill themselves and catch it on camera, which is proof."
It's not like the show tried to portray this as a smart decision.
>>79141498
There doesn't need to be a line. Walter White was literally a villain by the end of the series but that was what made him such an engaging protagonist.
>>79140901
stupid people want to believe. to be fair thats 60% of the population or more. i'm not surprised that this is a common held belief.
stupid people and eccentrics. the eccentrics could be really smart or really stupid.
>>79141569
It's the one everyone, even the lawyer and scientists, agreed on.
A LAWYER and PAIR OF SCIENTISTS went with this. Jessica being this fucking stupid is at least her character. But then they made it so every single solitary main character and several side ones are all equally rock stupid because otherwise how are we going to spin our wheels for six more episodes?
>>79138887
>Extenuating circumstances(in which case that there was no other possible way to obtain this evidence)
That's not what Extenuating Circumstances means. Extenuating circumstance so far don't include desperation.
Jessica's test would have been admissible even if she went to jail for it because she wasn't a cop and wasn't up up to it by the cops or DA.
(Same as a lawyer turning on their client without prompting would be disbarred, sued, and potentially go to jail but the evidence would be admissible)
They also have to prove he can control the virus and use it to control other people and then prove that he DID use it.
>>79141752
But the lawyer didn't agree with it at all, and ended up sabotaging it.
>>79139149
>>79139327
>>79139791
>>79139874
Also did AoU bring back SHIELD? I thought the government was in the middle of reorganizing the assets of SHIELD into the other alphabet agencies during the time DD and JJ take place.
>>79140019
Out of the pertinent dyes listed on that page, they're all for identifying tumors or abnormalities.
>>79140901
In the MCU New York has only seen the Hulk/Abomination fight and the Chitauri invasion.
>>79139154
That's what I mean. I feel like they HAD to make him go bad/crazy because he was proven right over and over. That's basically what women do in real life, since they're incapable of ever realizing their wrong about anything, they just project horrible qualities onto the man.
Simpson was the voice of reason so they had to make him go crazy all the sudden. Hey, it's better than admitting your boyfriend was right. The female will never do that.
Funny thing is I'd be more pissed but they did do Luke good enough. That actor really carried it or something. They showed him to be right level of sensitive and tough. But it's a shame only Luke got that treatment and everyone else got skewered.
>>79141752
A lawyer just going along with it for her own reasons and a pair of emotionally entangled scientists whose guilt has caught up to them.
>>79141949
I haven't watched AoS since the middle of the 2nd season but I think they rebuilt it in that show.
>>79142053
>In the MCU New York has only seen the Hulk/Abomination fight and the Chitauri invasion.
That should be plenty.
>>79141788
I think he meant probable cause.
>>79142053
>Out of the pertinent dyes listed on that page, they're all for identifying tumors or abnormalities.
https://www.thermofisher.com/us/en/home/references/newsletters-and-journals/bioprobes-journal-of-cell-biology-applications/bioprobes-issues-2012/bioprobes-67-june-2012/viral-imaging-with-fluorescent-probes.html
Better?... No?
Okay, here's an actual example of a dye being used on a virus to study what, exactly, it did and down to what it did to what cells without invasive surgery. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2888934/
>>79142053
>In the MCU New York has only seen the Hulk/Abomination fight and the Chitauri invasion.
And the government knows you can mind control people with magic glowing staffs, and would probably look into this case.
...problem solved?
>>79123512
Because shitty people do more interesting things than good people. And if they're exceptionally shitty people, you watch to see when and how they will get their comeuppance.
After all, shows where the shitty person never loses almost always fail. Like Allen Gregory. Show died on its ass because the main characters were shitty people, and all they did was ruin other people's lives without penalty for it.
>>79141788
>They also have to prove he can control the virus and use it to control other people and then prove that he DID use it.
That would be the easy part, the eyewitness testimonies of Jessica and Hope alone would be plenty, but a dozen other people stepped forwards to talk about it. A dozen testimonies saying 'He knew exactly what he was doing and actually enjoyed doing it' would be pretty substantial, especially as several of them, like the woman who played the violin, had injuries sustained in the action that if he were unaware he would have noticed.
Proving he can control it is fucksimple, they have that on video from when he was a kid. They just point to it when he was being experimented on and call it a day. Then they have that he was aware of it, that he knew he could control it, and plenty of testimonies to say did it. The hard part was just proving it was possible.
>>79123512
because people like characters like them not characters that they can strive to be like
>>79142417
>After all, shows where the shitty person never loses almost always fail. Like Allen Gregory. Show died on its ass because the main characters were shitty people, and all they did was ruin other people's lives without penalty for it.
Family Guy.
They ruin everyone's lives and never actually pay for any of it. Several of them are murderers.
>>79142417
dexter. literally a show about a shitty person getting away with it.
house- about a shitty person who is a doctor getting away with it
i'm sure there are more but both those shows have high ratings and are generally considered good
That "flawed" characters are not inherently interesting.
>>79123616
/thread
>>79130374
Let's expand on that
>you can make a show that approaches its themes with an insulting subtlety of an H-bomb, is uncreative, predictable as a sunrise, full of terrible characters, with absolutely zero thrilling moments despite trying too hard to be a thriller and people will praise you cause you dealt with rape
>>79142638
But Dexter did absolutely nothing wrong.Season 5-8 don't count.
>>79130374
>Implying DD didn't have the exact same problem
>>79142638
>Dexter
>generally considered good
First seasons maybe. The rest is generally a laughingstock.
>>79141452
You know the problem with all these posts.
Its assumed the prosecutors would humor the defense enough to invent an entire new branch of science. The prosecutors would have the edge in said case simply because of how ridiculous sounding the notion of mind controlling a person is.
Furthermore if they actually start to believe the evidence, then it would be in their best interest to continue to let the girl rot and sic SHIELD on him to maintain order and prevent the entire city from going to hell.
The judicial system has no obligation to see true justice dealt out at the cost of order.
>>79144215
First four are praised pretty highly. Then it turns into sheer fuckery.
