Okay. Could someone explain what happened and what it did to Marvel continuity?
>>78975236
It doesn't matter. Reed and Sue basically got written out from stories for the time being while Doom has his face fixed.
>>78975726
Yeah, but how did that put Miles and his supporting cast in 616 as well as Old Man Logan and presumably other AU characters? And why are some things different like Hawkeye's brother being fat and nobody knowing Daredevil's secret ID?
>>78975791
Miles and his supporting cast are in 616 because Miles gave Molecule Man a hamburger.
>>78975791
Secret Wars! Miles is in 616 because he gave burger to Molecule Man. OML is in 616 because handwave.
And Miles doesn't remember shit of Ultimate world. Not sure why OML remembers, though, but it could be explained because he's from future.
And doesn't know there's teen Cyclops.
>>78975791
desu it's a whole lot of little shit, not Earth shattering stuff like in DC Crises.
No different from how Marvel usually operates, really. They forget (in at least one writer's case ignore) character details all the time.
>>78975809
But what about the versions of them that were already in 616 and that's really stupid?
>>78975791
Miles gave Molecule Man an expired hambuger he had stuffed in his costume several weeks ago
No, really... THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED
The rest is Franklin making shit up as he goes along rebuilding the multiverse
>>78975817
Fuck. Now I can't avoid the little bugger.
>>78975817
Then why the hell would he become Spider-Man if he thinks he was always in 616? And I pray they don't add him to Peter's supporting cast or vise versa.
>>78975829
>The rest is Franklin making shit up as he goes along rebuilding the multiverse
Franklin is such a shit. Zero character development and with a personality as flat as a board.
>>78975841
I wouldn't worry about that, Slott doesn't seem like he's on team Bendis.
>>78975841
I really hope some editor comes along and trashes all the new young characters added for diversity's sake.
>>78975868
Miles should receive the same fate as Alpha. Completely forgotten.
>>78975817
What about Kate Bishop, Prowler, and every other thing in 1610? How do they explain that?
>>78975829
If Franklin is fixing things, why the hell doesn't he bring back white Nick Fury and scrap other failed storylines the readership hates?
>>78975933
And shit like Iron Man being adopted, Dum Dum Dugan being an LMD, Thor becoming unworthy from a whisper, Cap turning old, and everybody suddenly becoming an Inhuman?
Why are they insisting on not calling it 616 anymore? It's still 616.
>>78975817
We also have no explanation on why Ultimate Reed is now in 616 when Molecular Man didn't seem very fond of him.
>>78976013
Did he say that he's from other reality or something like that? I don't read NA.
>>78975824
You're just going to have to take and like it, nerd!
>>78975908
As far as I'm aware, the only members of Miles' supporting cast that were brought over to Earth-616 are ones that didn't already exist in some way (his parents, Ganke, Lana, Judge and presumably their parents).
>>78976009
Is there anyone in Marvel who hated that designation as much as Brevoort? He's the only person I know of that really wanted to get rid of it.
At this point Marvel really needs to just get rid of all of their people and get new ones who actually care, don't have a political agenda, and will do a good job.
>>78976158
Why does he hate it?
>>78976166
You want them to fire all of their people?
>>78976168
Because he's a little bitch.
>>78976171
All of the writers and editors. There are literally no good ones left. Artists and interns are safe.
>>78975236
Literally: IT JUST WORKS
>>78976166
It's too late anon. They're owned by Disney. Expect Marvel to slowly become the publisher exclusively for Star Wars comics.
>HALF YEAR AGO
>LE MARVEL ISNT LE KILLING FANTASTIC FOUR -/co/mblr
MY SIDES
>>78975829
By the way, if Franklin comes to Earth, won't he become infertile and start dying because of the Mists?
>>78975829
>The rest is Franklin making shit up as he goes along rebuilding the multiverse
I dont remember this happening. I think the last one I read was thanos pep talking giant Thing to revolt against doom
>>78975856
Franklin is the only one who actually has experience in this area.
I'm not saying it wasn't done shit. It was. It was executed absolutely terribly.
But Franklin was the smart choice. He was set up as this powerful character with transcendent abilities, plus he did this before.
But Secret Wars itself was shite.
>>78975880
Well, you can always go and burn a cross on Marvel's lawn to alleviate your stress...
>>78975995
Still there. Still stupid.
>>78976738
The Mists will probably be rendered infertile and start dying, instead.
>>78976756
It's simple. Reed and Doom duke it out in Molecule Man's room. Doom makes the fatal flaw of admitting that Reed would have done a better job -
See, and THIS is what I take issue with. The CONCEPT of this series.
The NOTION that Doctor Doom would gain the power of the Beyonders and use it to create one little planet, not even a solar system, a single planet without even a MOON, is fucking BULLSHIT.
Hickman is a hack. He should be called Hackman or something. Because this... this could have been so much better.
>>78976738
Franklin could just think the terrigen mists are fucking shit and they dissapear, also he can return the fertility to everyone and their mother with a handwave because that's how overpowered that little shit is
>>78976628
well they didn't. all of them are alive and well and accounted for
>>78976994
Well, he could make them turn everyone into mutants and extremely hazardous to inhumans, am I right?
>>78977019
or pull a Wanda and No more inhumans
>>78976964
Yeah, I mean, the idea that Reed is the smarter one of the two is nothing new and works entirely fine thematically because hubris and ego is always Doom's Achilles heel, but the big climax built around Doom whining about how Reed would have done a better work is fucking bullshit end to the conflict after spending three years showing how fucking worthless Reed was in saving the multiverse. Reed should have attacked Victor with the insinuation that Doom could have done a better job than this chaotic battle world, or that he was too pussy to try and recreate everything from scratch, and Doom having a moment of clarity where he recognizes his self-doubt and insecurities being at fault, once again making him the weaker man of the two. Not Doom shouting at Reed how he knows he would have done it all better like teenage girl throwing a hissy fit. That's fucking weak, man.
>>78976964
>Reed and Doom duke it out
Which reed?
>>78977057
the real Reed, the faggot conehead got turned into pizza for Owen
>>78977106
Seriously. What was the point of involving Maker into any of this except to make him look like shit?
He could have been a very interesting character.
But what am I saying. Of course he couldn't. Not in this day and age.
>>78977161
cucking us into thinking he was going to do something awesome, he put reed in a timebubble that devolved him into a monkey but MM just went NOT MUH and killed Maker returning Reed to normal
>>78975236
>what it did to Marvel continuity?
It literally did nothing. The event wiped itself out of continuity. You can safely ignore the entire clusterfuck, as it changes nothing.
>>78976013
probably because he was in the void that mm was in when shit went down so its like the late philip j fry when they are in the machine. time is altered around them, but they are uneffected
>>78977209
Is Thor still a woman? Is Captain America still black?
>>78977260
Of course. Why asking?
>>78977260
>Is Captain America still black?
Yes and with an illegal alien sidekick who gives food to other illegal migrants. The new Falcon. (Not making this up)
>>78976964
>Hurdurr, you can always go and burn a cross on Marvel's lawn you raycis!
>>78977260
Yes. And yes. Of course, the current Captain America has always been an African-American.
The title is just that: a title. Making me question why you take issue with him being not white. There have been... five? Six? Captains America. Most of them were Caucasian. Wasn't it about time? Of course, one might question why it should be Sam Wilson.
What's Elijah Bradley doing these days?
Unlike Thor, which is a NAME. There literally is no good reason for THAT transition except 'we need more women in superhero roles' and I wonder if that is actually true. Superhero comics are a pretty immature genre.
So this is basically retcon city? The Marvel speed force. Any change in continuity can be attributed to Secret Wars now.
>Brevoort: I think so. At a certain point, we set out here to do the last Fantastic Four story, at least for the time being. We didn't necessarily start with that as the original goal way back even with "Avengers" #1. That having been said, it's such a natural end point because a lot of this stuff organically grows out of Jonathan's "Fantastic Four" run. It seems like a fitting capstone to all of that.
This explains everything. Blame editorial for this shitshow of a title.
>>78977302
>Captains America. Most of them were Caucasian. Wasn't it about time?
When will we have Asian-American Captain America? When is time for Latino Captain America? I DEMAND European Captain America.
>>78977298
Why did you feel the need to add 'hurdurr'?
Do you take exception to the suggestion that poster is a racist?
>I really hope some editor comes along and trashes all the new young characters added for diversity's sake.
That is racist. There is no nice way to put it.
>>78977227
But he was literally turned into pieces of meat. How is he back to normal?
>>78977322
>When will we have Asian-American Captain America? When is time for Latino Captain America? I DEMAND European Captain America.
Your logic eludes me. Almost all Captains America were European.
>>78977307
Not really. Not that much has changed, and the little that has is very marginal.
>>78977344
by molecule man. separating him like that doesnt make him dead when he does it
>>78977345
I want Captain America from Europe, come on, it's 2016.
>>78977198
Anybody else think that was out of character for Ultimate Reed? I never saw him flat out betray someone during his evil Ultimate runs. He was a prick, but he never went muahahaha villain mode like he did at the end of SW
>>78977302
doesnt cap have a bigger minority legacy than a white one? sam, danielle, the latina cyborg, the super soldier program?
You know, it makes sense why Peter Parker is now richer than Tony Stark. Reed and Sue always liked Peter
>>78977277
>Of course. Why asking?
It bothers me. I like white characters better
>>78977344
Ultimate Reed is made of micro-organisms
>>78977332
Adding characters for diversity's sake is racist. Special treatment is racist. Just let black people make black people comics with black characters if they want it so badly
>>78975868
Slott is on his own team. All he cares about is pissing people off. Of course he's not going to side with Bendis. Bendis is stealing his thunder.
The only other thing Slott cares about is holding as tightly on to Spider-Man writing credits as he possibly can.
>>78977332
>That is racist.
Insults aren't really a good argument
>>78977429
Yeah, you're an insecure piece of shit.
>>78977302
Thor is also a title within the MU. This is the second time someone other than Thor Odinson has been the superhero Thor. 4th or 5th if you count alternate future Thors like Dargo Ktor.
I really wish you kids would read comics instead of crying like little bitches. There was a fucking team of them long before SW with 2 on the team explicitly name *the* Thors of their time you /pol/tard piece of shit.
>>78977456
>Yeah, you're an insecure piece of shit.
Good argument bro. Maybe Marvel is hiring
>>78977429
Yeah you'll never run a company or be successful. You have no concept of the domestic market let alone global one.
>>78977456
No, he's right. Doing something simply for the sake of diversity and to appease another race or group of people is wrong. That's why Black Panther and Luke Cage are so awesome. They were originally black, and that made them so powerful, so potent at the time they were made. Retroactively turning people black, or female, or asian, simply to add diversity, instead of taking the time to write new, interesting characters... is lazy and horrible.
>>78976168
Why does Breevort hate anything?
Who the fuck knows. He just bitches and moans over inconsequential shit all the damn time.
>>78976372
Secret Wars: IT JUST WORKS - The event!
>>78977528
Luke was made to take advantage of the whole blaxsploitation genre which was a huge trend and mainly marketed at black audiences. There's really nothing wrong with being a business and catering your product to multiple consumer markets from WASPs to black people etc. It's standard practice and commercial suicide nowadays given the importance of global revenues not to. It's one of the reasons as shitty as it is the Fast & Furious franchise makes so much money globally.
>>78977437
To be fair, Bendis wanted to kill Peter Parker off in Civil War II but Slott wouldn't let him. Likewise, Marvel wanted to kill the F4 off but Hickman outright refused and said he'd rather quit than write that story.
You may hate some of these writers, but they're also the only ones protecting certain characters from being killed off.
Too bad there wasn't anyone to protect Cyclops when they decided to shit ALL OVER HIM.
>>78977307
>So this is basically retcon city?
Well, in that it retcons itself out of continuity in the final issue, yeah.
Seriously, it ends right back where Hackman's story started in New Avengers #1 (Hickman's 2013 series), but with no incursion.
>>78977385
it was just a way for Hickman to have his Reed and Doom final showdown without someone interrupting, because let's be honest, Maker would've pull some magic gadget that would insta kill Doom or something
the fucking hack needed to monologue his NOT MUH into the final fight
>>78977411
wait what?
>>78977708
>Bendis wanted to kill Peter Parker off in Civil War II but Slott wouldn't let him
>You may hate some of these writers, but they're also the only ones protecting certain characters from being killed off.
parker just came back, and slotts not about to give up his meal ticket
>>78977661
then why if they want to pander so much to the blacks and latinos and everything can't they make a new character? take for example Kamala, she is a girl, muslim hipster etc... and she was a new character yes she took the Ms Marvel role but it was justified because Carol became Cpt Marvel and she was a huge Fangirl and got Carol's blessing, same with Miles (even tho Bendis can't write for shit), hell Amadeus Cho becoming a Hulk is a great idea for passing the torch, atleast he was his own character and great friend of Banner (also there are a crapload of hulks so it's fucking nothing)
Are you telling us that minorities are so fucking insecure that they need to have an stablished name to get behind (Captain America, Thor, butchering Kitty Pride by making her Star Lord) instead of creating new interesting characters catered to them?
seems like they still need the help of the white man that they loathe so much
>>78977708
Cyclops will end up being JUST A PRANK BRO!
a man can hope...
>>78977810
Stop generalising people you autist. Huge groups of people aren't monolithic blocks. This is also the 4th time in continuity someone other than Steve Rogers has been Captain America.
You didn't cry about the 1950s Cap being revealed as not Steve, or when John Walker was Cap, or Bucky. Why are you shitting the bed it's Falcon? Who is a more logical choice for the role than pretty much all those previous replacements..
>>78977857
still haven't answered,why can't minorities make comics for themselves instead of having to be pandered by stablished franchises?
>>78977381
Ridiculing a valid point makes you look stupid.
>>78977390
>danielle, the latina cyborg
Huh?
>>78977409
>I like white characters better
Honesty. I like that in a racist.
>>78977411
No, no, no. He is not MADE OF micro-organisms.
>>78977429
Hilarious.
At least I hope you are kidding, otherwise it's pathetic.
>>78977445
I agree, but that was not an insult. It was a fact.
>>78977878
because they cant just appeal to themselves if they want to be successful sadly. people see a program with a majority minority group, and it becomes a minority program and its appeal limits.
>>78977477
Also true. So I guess it's the 'female' part that stymies me.
>>78977857
>Stop generalising people you autist.
Speaking as an autist: please don't.
>>78977878
Why do you feel the need to seperate people out by race lines? Because what you are suggesting reeks of 'Negro League'. Separate but equal! Slegs vir blankes!
>>78977878
Because the world isn't segregated. A multinational corporation like Marvel or any content producer isn't a "white" company. It has hundreds of different people of multiple nationalities & ethnicities working for it. It decides to launch a new character, it's going to sell better if its an established brand. Doesn't matter if the characte is black, white, or green. There's no conspiracy you tard just business in a world that increasingly looks diverse because products are shipped and consumed everywhere now and as margins are lower than ever.
>>78977913
they can steal appeal to a large number of people, take Black Panther, Storm, Kamala, Miles, Luke, that vodoo guy...
>>78977900
danielle cage and alexis both take up the shield at a point
>>78977411
>Ultimate Reed is made of micro-organisms
...so are all living creatures. We're made of these things called "cells". I know, a revolutionary and groundbreaking new idea!
Why do /pol/tards read comics characters made by Jewish people? Why can't you have your own characters and comics instead of stealing them from Jewish people and saying they are yours? I think white boys need to stick to white comics like Archie and Casper. Marvel comics and characters should only be read or enjoyed by Jewish people as that's who created them. They shouldn't even sell Marvel products outside the synagogue.
If you're white why are you reading about a Jewish created character like Capt America or the superhero version of Thor? You should be reading about glorious Aryan made Aryan heroes like Archie and Richie Rich. Race traitors!
>>78977942
those are still wild rice grains in in a sea of white rice. milestone was a continuity with a large minority cast, yet most people dont know beyond static(who is still referred to as static shock by the few that remember him)
>>78977997
Salutations, Tumblr.
Disney bought Marvel, and now it's being reworked for maximum profit. The old fansbut mainly the manchildrencould go to hell.
>>78977708
>You may hate some of these writers, but they're also the only ones protecting certain characters from being killed off.
Yeah, because if those characters DID get killed off, they wouldn't have a job. They aren't doing it for holistic reasons. They're doing it because of their own greed.
>>78978074
Still haven't answered, why can't white boys make comics & characters for themselves instead of latching onto established franchises created by mighty Jewish people they supposedly hate?!
>>78978132
because noone wants to read about white lightning and his pale hero brigade
>>78975824
a shocked look on peters face doesn't outright confirm an entire character/supporting cast existing
>>78978010
I get you, but then we can agree it's more of a writer's fault for not making a good enough character? because it can be done, Falcon for example is a great character, one of my favorites, but now that he is the cap I don't find him that good, not because I don't like the character, but because it simply isn't well written as Cap, it feels a little soulless, not feeling quite like Cap and not like Falcon, just a weird thing inbetween...
also for example the femthor thing was lazy as fuck because they never told us the reason why Thor lost his hammer it was just "She is a grill, GRRRRLLLL power deal with eat old fans can fuck a rake" also it didn't help that the comic has been just uninteresting for someone that doesn't care about grrlll power and just wants to se Thor punching shit every third panel
shoehorning minorities just because of diversity is lazy as fuck in my book and disrespectful (the same way affirmative action is but that's another topic)
>>78978202
Was John Walker that well written when he was Captain America? Did you have a shit fit then? When Thor Odinson flat out went missing with no explanation and Eric Masterson took over as Thor for the Marvel Universe did you bitch and whine?
>>78978259
yes I did, when Fraction took a shit all over the FF I hated it, when Bendis started to trying to be the Geoff Johns of Marvel I sure as hell threw a shit fit also
So white boys are fine when new white heroes take on the mantle of existing heroes, as happened *constantly* during the late 80s & 90s, but if it's a woman or minority they shit the bed saying it's not a mantle and only the original can be that hero? Why is that?
>>78978295
You must have hated pretty much all books published after 1985 brah..
>>78978202
falcon being cap at least makes sense. before he became a completely bitter asshole, cap had no problem dropping the suit to people he thought were worthy if he couldnt/wouldnt continue wielding the shield. and seeing as sam is his best friend since coming to the future, its a logical progression. bucky wasnt caplike either, but he did make for an interesting character
jane on the other hand i agree with. between still not having a reason for odinson losing his hammer, to titania being straight retarded(i wish spider man would have showed up when she gave that fucking speech), and mjolnir liking her more for some odd reason, theyve tried hard to legitimize her through unknown means. the problem is that people arent gonna buy that shit for long and shes gonna have to do something to leave a mark, or she'll be seen as a mistake
>>78978316
I've regretted reading many abominations yes, some are fine thought, I don't know why I have faith on the big two still
>>78978332
It's superheroes not Shakespeare. Jane Foster, the most famous supporting character in the history of Thor, being Thor for a while makes perfect sense from business p.o.v. Which is what Marvel and every single publisher or content creator in any medium is. If it was some random woman like Roz Soloman shit wouldn't sell and people wouldn't be interested.
>>78978377
>being Thor for a while makes perfect sense from business p.o.v.
in which way exactly?
>>78978332
yeah, my only gripe with Falcon is the way it is written, like I said he doesn't feel like Falcon or Cap, and yes if the people doing Janethor don't get her act together she will be forgotten quickly
>>78978377
atleast they should've given a reason like with Falcon or hell even Laura as the new Wolverine not just putting her there just because
>>78978422
I said. If it was Roz people would be like Who? You tell people Jane Foster is now Thor they'll be all like what?! no way! and be curious.
>>78978441
They didn't the last time when Eric Masterson took over. Thor Odinson was missing and it wasn't explained for months where he was. Did you bitch and cry then?
>>78975726
And Tony who had become a dick was suddenly un-dicked.
>>78975236
moore made merlin and his daughter and a bunch of other peopel the guardians of the multiverse. Now it's the fantastic four
>>78978472
until they give a valid reason what cancer girl became Thor people will still see her as a shoehorned character that shouldn't be there... when Thor went missing it wasn't a big deal because they didn't change shit for the sake of changing it, he came back and things went as normal
but well Thor might be getting ultimate Mjolnir soon so every one (if they haven't already) can ditch thundercancergirl (that's if they give Odinson his book if not we'll be stuck with the bitch)
>>78976738
>>78976994
>>78976964
axtually since now the 616 universe was imagined by Franklin he's the fault of the mists in the first place.Because when he was making that universe he thought how mutants are hated and feared and threatened to become extinct and that's what happened.
And when making another universe he thought of how unca peter was sad for losing Gwen and now that universe is populated only of gwens.
>>78975236
People have covered a few things, but I'll try my hand.
The event worked as an ending/beginning to Hickman's FF run, and Reed's relentless attempts to redeem Doom, by curing his face.
Franklin is now officially the creator and shaper of the multiverse, which has been theorized for years, but is now verifiable fact.
The old Multiverse (7) has been replaced by the new Multiverse (8) which results in storyline cues for Contest of Champions and Ultimates in the form of the plot device "Iso-8"
Miles and friends get a new home on "Prime Earth" because burgers and Bendis and gofuckyourselfforcomplainingyouracist. Except Jessica Drew and the Ultimates because...uh..
Thats it. Its not a reboot, everything else is the same, continuity is still in place from before Secret Wars, take it or leave it, I thought it was a great event, though maybe not enough to disrupt the entire Marvel line for half a year, but at least it wasn't as bad as Convergence.
>>78978599
well yes but Franklin is pretty much a Deus ex Machina that can fix anything with the power of imagination
>>78977878
Uh cause marvel hires more white guys? You are coming at this under the presumption that minorities who make comics are represented correctly
Does Miles remember the Ultimate U? What about 616 Peter?
>>78978623
Why do white boys go and work for a Jewish company? Why can't white boys make their own comics company rather than work for the Jewish people they supposedly hate?
>>78978644
I don't think its been mentioned, but Old Man Logan, Squadron Supreme and others who escaped still remember being from other Earths, and the incursions, so I don't see why only Miles would be wiped.
Currently 616 Peter is busy being a CEO and the International Spider-man. Miles is the Avengers/NYC Spider-man.
>>78978451
i doubt that. did the jane reveal actually improve sales?
>>78978489
>And Tony who is a dick was temporarily un-dicked
fixed that for you
>>78978727
Dunno. But it generates more buzz than if it was Roz. Comics companies have been replacing established heroes since the fucking silver age. Sometimes it sticks. Sometimes it doesn't. There's really no difference between Jane becoming Thor and Barry Allen becoming the Flash or Bucky becoming Cap. Except Jane is a woman.
>>78978685
Ty. I meant does Pete remember the Ultimate U and that Miles is from there?
>>78978727
as far as I know JaneThor is selling more than ThorThor ever sold
>>78978796
>Except Jane is a woman.
is that some sort of shield to protect her from criticism? because she does have a special snowflake halo around her that ive never seen a legacy character have. hell captain falcon started off at axis
>>78978830
including after the reveal? i remember people reading trying to find clues to who she is before she showed who she is
>>78978727
Sales did jump, yes
>03/15 Thor v6 #6 - 70,569 ( +1.5%)
>04/15 Thor v6 #7 - 71,372 ( +1.1%)
>05/15 Thor v6 #8 - 86,222 (+20.1%)
>>78975236
Are there still cosmic entities? Marvel doesn't seem to know what to do with them.
>>78978796
Bad examples as Buckycap is the only good one.
Barryfags are cancer just like their shitty character.
>>78978931
Yes, the cosmic entities were seen in Last Days of The Silver Surfer, which explained their role in the event, though they didn't appear in Secret Wars.
>>78978599
>axtually since now the 616 universe was imagined by Franklin he's the fault of the mists in the first place
It was imagined by Reed and powered by Owen, though. Making Reed just, you know, a dick.
Franklin is working with Reed to build the rest of the multiverse.
>>78977708
Is anybody else really annoyed that as soon as Bendis' pet character becomes part of the main universe, Bendis' first order of buisness is to kill off Peter?
>>78978880
Nope. Pointing out this story has been done so many times it's a trope of the genre and medium. Only difference this time is a woman is the replacement hero. Suddenly autists are all like NOT MUH THOR. Eric Masterson was just as shit at being Thor. No one bitched then.
>>78978119
Oh yes, I'm sure Hickman cared so much about not getting to write the new Fantastic Four comic.
>>78978931
The Future Foundation (sans Johnny Storm and Ben Grimm...for SOME reason) are the new cosmic entities.
>>78978997
I meant Barry a back in the Silver Age when he replaced Jay Garrick. Literally that's how long this has been happening for. Except now it's women & non-whites as the replacement heroes since the market has changed from the 1960s and suddenly now autists are crying about it as if it's a new thing. Kek.
>>78979095
Isn't Hickman taking a break from writing for Marvel for a while anyway?
You and I both know that if Slott isn't writing Spider-Man (Silver Surfer isn't a high enough seller to matter), he wouldn't have a job at Marvel. The guy is a complete hack and an utter douchebag on social media. If he was writing anyone else, he'd have been fired ages ago.
>>78979071
yes they did. people bitch with every major change. are you not aware of this?
>>78978665
They do it's called image
>>78979133
I'm old I remember it well. People didn't bitch and cry and whine about SJW conspiracies and their precious comics characters being stolen by minorities. The closest thing was those autists not wanting Hal HEAT or something. And it wasn't near the level of facepalm as the people who bitch about CapFalcon and Whor
>>78979191
bullshit. ben reilly got hated on from fucking space. so did thunderstrike. hell even non legacy characters had people puking up green pea soup like they were possessed.
>>78979013
no it's specifically explained that franklin imagines them reed spins them and owen gives the power
>>78979130
Yeah, but it's worth remembering that Slott fucking loves Spider-man. He's passed on higher paying jobs before just so he can continue writing Spider-man. It has nothing to do with money and more to do with writing Spider-man being his dream since he was like 4 years old and he will NEVER give it up.
>>78979218
Yeah but you didn't get /pol/tards constantly bringing it up on discussion forums. It wasn't anywhere near the level of autistic meltdown as a when black man and a woman got the mantles.
>>78979013
No, Franklin does the imagining. Reed is really that creative. Franklin imagines it, Reed uses the Beyonders' powers (with Owen acting as the conduit) to turn the universes that Franklin imagines into full blown universes, then Owen splits off a piece of himself to anchor the universes together into a unified multiverse.
So, we have
>the Ultimates universe destroyed - save some members (like Miles).
>The Richards family gone/written away. Reed has the power of the Beyonders now?
>Ben and Johnny are operating in separate factions (GotG and Avengers).
>Doom's disfigured face has been made whole.
>Molecule Man is no longer the battery or power source of Doom's universe
>Also, a bunch of people died (but when is that ever permanent?)
>>78979275
yes it was. there were more people reading comics then. seeing people getting heated over not muh thor happened in real time. and honestly, people are much more accepting of both thor and cap than they were the other characters.
>>78979330
I don't remember it being as bad. Literally look how this discussion got started, some autists crying about Cap being a black man and Thor being a woman now.
>>78979307
Johnny is with the Avengers? It thought he was with the Inhumans, the Torch in Uncanny Avengers is Jim Hammond.
>>78979353
He appears in Squadron Supreme - working with Shield and helping out Uncanny Avengers (whom has Jim as you pointed out)
>>78979241
Yes. For the non-616 Universes. What the hell do you think the whole part about Reed and Doom was about, where they both agreed that Reed would be better at rebuilding the world?
Reed created the 616 Earth with Owen's power. That's the whole point.
>>78979353
Johnny is with Uncanny Avengers.
Jim Hammond is with SHIELD.
>>78979346
it was. you have autists here, but the only way to stem the tide of stupidity in the 90s was to throw as much bullshit as possible and hope it stuck.
when the return of superman happened, people were both happy and massively pissed off.
>>78979307
>Molecule Man is no longer the battery or power source of Doom's universe
Eh, he's still the conduit for the Beyonders' powers, it's just that Reed is the one using the powers instead of Doom and he's the anchor that's holding the multiverse together.
>>78979245
>Yeah, but it's worth remembering that Slott fucking loves Spider-man.
No. He fucking loves Otto and his OCs (Silk, etc). He loathes Peter.
>>78979486
>muh Spock
Oh fuck off. Spock's favorite hero is Peter Parker. His favorite villain is Doc Ock. He turned Peter into the richest, smartest, most powerful hero on the planet with multiple women fawning over him and the point of Superior Spider-man was that there's no replacing Peter because he's the best suited to be Spider-man. Spider-verse established that 616 Peter is the greatest spider in the multiverse.
>>78979520
This. Slott loves Peter.
>>78979520
>He turned Peter into the richest, smartest, most powerful hero on the planet with multiple women fawning over him
Which is actually more evidence that he'd like to write Iron Man.
You're forgetting that Slott is the guy who wrote Peter out of his own book twice.
He also wrote an entire event about going through the entire multiverse and systematically murdering each Peter Parker one-by-one.
He also goes out of his way to write Peter as an incompetent manchild. Even with billions of dollars at his disposal.
Its painfully clear that Slott loathes Peter.
Maker finally got what was coming to him but then he survived anyway.
Why would Reed save him of all people? Did he forget that last minute betrayal?
>>78977976
...Is this new? I haven't really read many titles yet since I opted to wait until 'Secret Wars' 9 dropped.
>>78975236
It let Bendis bring his favorite Ultimate characters over to 616 when the line ended.
>>78977997
Represent.
>>78978176
>noone wants to read about white lightning and his pale hero brigade
...I bet someone would.
>>78978618
The power of the Beyonders.
Honestly. Why didn't they just go "LET ALL BE AS IT ONCE WAS!"
>>78978758
Go eat a Tony.
>>78979008
...Just the Shaper of World and Eternity.
>>78979177
OHHH SNAP
>>78979828
>...I bet someone would.
Yeah, racists!
>>78979874
Yes, racists. They exist. There's also porn comics, you know.
>>78979776
no. alexis picked it up in the future in avengers ai, and dani was in some time displaced avengers team before secret wars
>>78979874
No if you look at /pol/tards they are literally Tumblrite SJWs. They're not happy unless they have something to complain about and blame others for their problems. They actually wouldn't buy or pay attention to a Captain White Man and his Aryan heroes book in enough numbers.
>>78979916
No one believes you're not from Tumblr. Fuck off.
>>78979944
Ok then. As a white man why aren't you starting a comics company and publishing comics for white people? Why are you reading characters created by Jews?
>>78979944
They literally are though.
/pol/ and tumblr are pretty much identical, flipsides of the same coin. Tell me that 'muh cultural appropriation' and 'muh failure of multiculturalism' aren't literally the same argument and I'll call you a liar.
The seas around Mount Sanity sure are getting choppy.
>>78979983
>>78979902
...Not the same impact, though, since it's an 'alternate future'.
>>78979973
Aren't Jews white people?
Speaking as a white man, possibly my favorite comic is 'Gold Digger'... admittedly, it's about a white girl with blonde hair and blue eyes...
>>78980020
You're a bit of a cunt, aren't you, mate?
>>78976738
>By the way, if Franklin comes to Earth, won't he become infertile and start dying because of the Mists?
They'll just retcon him to be Not A Real Mutant.
>>78980020
Wow that's a really convincing picture. You make it yourself or was someone else also too autistic to communicate via words?
You sure dropped le red pillerino on me, sport.
>>78977708
>Too bad there wasn't anyone to protect Cyclops when they decided to shit ALL OVER HIM.
It keeps happening.
Real quick would you guys say this is a continuation of hickmans fantastic four and future foundation or just one? I want to read his fantastic four but i don't know about his future foundation
>>78977935
The world is segregated. Just because you've never left the city you were born in which I am gonna assume is in the USA doesn't mean it's like that anywhere else. Aside from the US, the world is very segregated, that's why you can call someone from Sweden a Swede, or someone from Liberia a Liberian.
It's only in the US and very few other western nations that segregation isn't a thing and pandering to minorities is deemed "cool."
>>78978259
>Was John Walker that well written when he was Captain America? Did you have a shit fit then? When Thor Odinson flat out went missing with no explanation and Eric Masterson took over as Thor for the Marvel Universe did you bitch and whine?
I am pretty sure there was a lot of fanboy whining in both cases. The same was true for Hal Jordan's fans.
Comics fans hate change.
>>78977900
>Losing an argument? Not to be worried!
>Just shout RACIST! And you're sure to win!
>>78980622
They more or less go together, but they don't really set the main structure for the event. That would be Hickman's Avengers/New Avengers
>>78977708
>Likewise, Marvel wanted to kill the F4 off but Hickman outright refused and said he'd rather quit than write that story.
Jesus Christ Hick, have some professionalism.
>>78978074
get out of here lince
I'd sure love to see Jane Foster fuck off or at the very least Marvel trying to get something decent out of the disaster that her 2015 run was
>>78980097
It's from Patri-Archie, an anti-SJW webcomic.
>>78980754
Markets aren't. If you're a multinational company you need a product that sells everywhere and appeals to multiple demographics. You also tend to have more than just insecure little white bois working for you.
>Why is an event called "Secret" wars not relevant to the universe?
So everything DID die but Reed convinced molecule man to rebuild everything back again?
>>78980622
His Future Foundation is his Fantastic Four. The book just gets renamed half way through and then turned into two books towards the end, but it's all the same run. You can't read one without the other.
>>78981002
>You also tend to have more than just insecure little white bois working for you.
This from the guy who's likely going around the thread shouting racist. And again, you're absolutely wrong. Markets around the world don't diversify their product, they specifically tailor it to their audience in order to sell more.
Do you think Pepsi has commercials with black families enjoying their product being broadcast in Turkey? Or how about an Asian man shopping for electronics on a billboard in Argentina?
That's not how it works, and you're simply displaying your ignorance outside your preconceived notions, especially by being racist.
>Inb4 you can't be racist towards white people! Power x Privilege!
>>78981076
No, Reed convinced MM to give him the power of the Beyonders. Then Franklin imagined up the new universes, and Reed turned them into full blown universes using the Beyonders' powers. The reason 616-8 is exactly the same as 616-7 is because it's the universe that Franklin and Reed are the most intimately familiar with so its the one they were able to remake perfectly.
But yes, everything died. Then Franklin, Reed and Owen created the new multiverse. Any continuity discrepancies are basically Franklin's fault since he's the one imagining them into existence.
>>78981289
>Any continuity discrepancies are basically Franklin's fault since he's the one imagining them into existence.
Are there any continuity discrepancies that weren't around before Secret Wars? Not counting things like Miles being cut-and-pasted in or the uncertainty of the recent past and the Incursions (did they happen? who remembers them?) which was going to be messy even for a God to clean up.
>>78981102
Damn I wanted to get it done before 5 I guess reading the run is going to take me a bit
>>78981343
I think some whore from MC2 came back from the dead in the Secret Wars' Spider-Girl book, featuring Spider-Island.
Secret Wars happened. Also, nothing.
>>78981343
>the Incursions
>did they happen?
No. That was the point of Black Panther's scene at the end of issue #9. Its a mirror of his stuff from the beginning of Hickman's New Avengers, but instead the rocket actually takes off without an Incursion interfering. Basically showing that Secret Wars itself has been written out of continuity.
>who remembers them?
Who the fuck knows. The final issue of the event did an absolutely abysmal job explain what the fuck is going on with the new 616 status quo. We know literally nothing about it, other than it looks exactly like it previously did, with the addition of Parker Industries randomly plastered across every god damn piece of tech out there.
>>78981645
But if the Incursions didn't happen, then Tony had no reason to make his charts and bigger Avengers to distract Steve. The Hickvengers could have formed anyway, but the Builders had no reason to attack Earth so no Infinity event.
It's a mess.
This wasn't some shitty DC reboot, it was just a one off event.
With the exception of some Ultimate characters being added to 616, damn near nothing has changed.
>>78975236
even Marvel doesn't know what the Marvel Continuity is
it is one giant clusterfuck, that needs a hard-reboot...and i mean hard, not that bullshit we got from secret wars.
>>78982159
>It's a mess.
Yes it fucking is. Not only did Secret Wars retcon itself out of continuity at the end, it completely fucks with continuity as a whole.
So Secret Wars and all of the incursions got fucked out of existence, making the 8 off-page months just 8 off-page months?
>>78982295
>it is one giant clusterfuck
Yes it is. But lets be fair, its STILL not as much of a clusterfuck as the DC continuity. Even post-nu52.
>>78982331
>making the 8 off-page months just 8 off-page months?
Making them non-existent.
>>78975236
Not a Doom Damn thing.
Okay Spider-verse bullshit was undone.
But if you hated 2013 continuity, it is the same fucking thing outside of that.
Whatever changes it did at large, for example the ultimate fate of the celestials, and all the super entities is unknown but then again Muhvel won't care to explain because that only sells comics to un-hip nerds.
>>78982424
>Okay Spider-verse bullshit was undone.
No it didn't. Web Warriors showed Spider-Verse still happened.
>>78979008
>Last Days of The Silver Surfer
Uh isn't the writer of that particular series Dan Slott?
Huh...Was it any good?
Slott on a good day can actually come up with entertaining stuff like superior, or shit over everything like what did on spider-verse
>>78982331
yes, that is why they are SECRET wars.
>>78982449
>Web Warriors showed Spider-Verse still happened.
And the fact that Silk is doing the same old shit also confirmed this. Hell, she just talked about the Inheritors in #3, which came out yesterday.
>>78982424
>Okay Spider-verse bullshit was undone.
Uhh... where the hell did you get that from?
>>78982449
But Franklin restored the multiverse, why the fuck would the spiders be still dead?
One fucking job Hackman, one FUCKING job.
>>78982492
>entertaining stuff like superior
Reading Superior was like an endless hangover, with profuse bloody vomit. I mean, if you find being that il enjoyable, sure, it was pretty entertaining.
>>78982581
>why the fuck would the spiders be still dead?
Because Slott hates Peter Parker.
>>78982675
I thought Slott could had get away with spider-murder because the incursions were already killing spider-men left and right so killing a few on panel would make little difference.
With the multiverse back why would they still be dead, it makes no sense, Hickman could had brought everyone back.
Welp Rip Hostess Spidey.
>>78978601
convergence was not great but it was way better than this.
also a really cool ending
>>78982726
>Hickman could had brought everyone back
That would make too many people happy. You forget, Marvel is in the business of pissing off as many readers as they can. Because
>MUH ANGER = free advertising
>>78982734
>it was way better than this
It really, REALLY wasn't. Convergence was absolute dogshit. This was just mediocre.
>>78978601
Convergence was over in a month, and had about the same share of cool moments.
Why did you have to bring that up?
Given how Hickman had a year to plan everything it felt pretty weak, it boils down to a last page reveals for the last year or so. So it should be better than convergence, but it isn't.
>>78982778
>This was just mediocre.
Nah. It was complete shit. Rarely do you see an event with this much buildup over such a long time that just shits the bed and completely fucks everything (including its own existence) up in the final issue.
I hate people who are "checking out" superhero comics and never actually reading them, only to call it confusing.
>>78982767
I read most of these 4free online, I did buy some of the cooler issues of SW and some tie ins like Siege and Time runs out. I was prepared to dish out money and collect the hardcover editions and omnibus collections in case SW had turned out better, or if Muhvel stopped being fucking cunts.
Superior Foes of Spider-Man was the last time I collected an entire series. Their anger motto is just stupid.
>>78982858
...people actually do this? The fuck?
>>78982887
Yeah, I just don't get it. Wouldn't you want people to talk about how amazing your comics are? Instead of trash talking them and bitching that they're complete shit?
Marvel -claims- that the anger = more sales. But I'm not totally convinced that is even true.
>>78981289
So wait if those 3 took part in restoring everything, wtf did Reed leave the murdering of the Squadan Supreme earths?
>>78983259
>wtf did Reed leave the murdering of the Squadan Supreme earths
Or the Mutant murdering Terrigen gas?
Reed is just an asshole.
>>78983330
>Or the Mutant murdering Terrigen gas?
Oh shit. That came about as a consequence of the Incursions, too. Although Black Bolt is such an asshole he'd have done it anyway.
Have they explained what mysterious threat Black Bolt wanted to prepare for by unleashing the Terrigen? Was it just the Incursions, or is there some mysterious thing still out there threatening all of the Inhumans?
>>78976372
Diavolo would be proud.
>>78982581
not only the spiders are still dead, but all the damage done to the timeline done by people messing with timetravel before SW is still there.
Frankil and Reed are shit reality warpers.
When David Haller wrote himself out of reality at least he also fixed it to account for him having never existed.
>>78983436
>Although Black Bolt is such an asshole he'd have done it anyway.
But if Reed is re-shaping the universe the way -he- wants, he could just as easily make Blackbolt, you know, not an asshole. But since Reed himself is a gigantic douchebag, he'll keep all of Blackbolt's super dickery.
>>78983859
I think Reed just wanted to put everything back the way it was. He doesn't want to play God. He's sticking to demiurgy.
>>78982887
>>78982942
people don't talk about good comics, but they talk about comics that anger them.
Yes people would talk about amazing comics, but doing amazing comics requires amazing writers free of editorial constraint.
Anger is just esier to achieve.
>>78983836
>Frankil and Reed are shit reality warpers.
Arguably the fucking worst. I'd argue that Doom actually -did- do a better job.
>>78983910
Then why did he change random shit? He was good friends with Parker... why didn't he just restore him to the way he was before, instead of you know, making him Tony Stark 2.0?
Or amping up the potency of the terrigen mists and endangering mutants even more than they were?
Or other nonsense like that?
Changing nothing would actually make MORE sense than all this random and nonsensical stuff.
>>78983993
That stuff wasn't changed, it naturally developed over the eight months time jump. Peter became Tony Stark 2.0 on his own efforts. The Terrigen mists were always deadly to mutants but it wasn't obvious at first.
Does counter earth still exist? Muties could move there
>>78983993
arguably that could have been Owen. He could have decided to make MIles' mentor happy along with everything else because of that burger.
>>78983436
>, or is there some mysterious thing still out there threatening all of the Inhumans?
Well Soule suggested some big threat and it might be what they are setting up in uncanny and all new with the sky spears. But back when hickman did it and fraction was on then too, it was just to make more Inhumans because I guess they thought there wasn't enough. They really should have had more lead up to something that effects the entire line this much.
>>78984199
>>78984179
>Peter became Tony Stark 2.0 on his own efforts.
Did he? The last we saw of him before Secret Wars was Ghost reking his entire company and him shitting the bed over saving ANY of their research.
I don't know why everyone just forgot about that.
>>78983993
Terrigen always killed mutants and during Inhumanity they only said it was diluted enough to not kill humans.
>>78984329
That's what insurance is for.
>>78984344
>Terrigen always killed mutants
Unless you're Quicksilver, right?
>>78984364
You don't go from completely crippled company to company who runs the entire planet in 8 months...
Not to mention, Slott's manchild Peter could never get his shit together.
Something has changed post-SW.
>>78984181
What happened to Owen? Is he dead or something? And what happened with the Celestials, the Beyonders, THE Beyonder Galactus and others cosmic entities?
>>78984373
>Quicksilver
>Mutant
Pick one.
>>78984373
He is lucky and iirc his power was killing him anyway by making him old. Most of the other mutants died as well and they could easily say being depowered made them die slower while full fledged mutants get cancer.
>>78984210
Can't just Hyperion or the complete Squad or someone god tier just beat the shit outta Black Bolt? Why didn't Reed obliterate Black Bolt from existence since he is auch a thread to even his own people? Black Bolt makes Namor looks like a good guy.
>>78984458
Also since it seems that terrigen is effecting the atmosphere as a whole and not just the cloud they could be constantly getting hurt by it.
>>78984458
>He is lucky
That isn't a real answer. That's just handwaving the issue.
Much like Hickman did for all of Secret Wars. So I guess in a roundabout way, you're very on point and topical. Bravo.
You could be a Marvel writer yourself.
>>78984398
>What happened to Owen?
His primary body (the one holding the beyonders' powers) is hanging out with Reed and the Future Foundation to help remake and explore the multiverse. He's also putting part of himself in each universe to anchor all the universes together so they don't start, y'know, slamming into each other or anything. So technically, there would have to be a 616 Molecule Man still as a result (since the new multiverse requires one in each universe to function).
>And what happened with the Celestials
Brought back by Franklin/Reed/Owen.
>the Beyonders
All dead according to Doom, but the last time Doom said he killed a Beyonder he was wrong so I'd take that with a grain of salt.
>THE Beyonder
Dead unless stated otherwise.
>Galactus
Brought back by Franklin/Reed/Owen.
>and others cosmic entities
Brought back by Franklin/Reed/Owen.
>>78984639
Don't tell me Franklin is also a celestial now.
So every cosmic entity is back. Are the mapmakers alive too? If they can bring back to life cosmic entities and are fixing everything why they haven't bring back to life the earths that died during the incursions?
>>78984495
1. Reed likes black bolt, they have saved each others asses many times, reed was at his wedding and bb and gang was there for Valeria's birth. Back when the Inhumans were super racist Reed was the exception,.Not to mention illuminati bros. They go way back reed wouldn't erase him.
2. Yeah they find a guy or have a team whip his ass especially now that he is alone. This is actually the first time black bolt has done something like this and the Inhumans have had an ongoing that the fallout could be shown in. I hope something actually comes of it. However seeing how the Inhumans are being pushed if it does happen they make a small event of it and not just have someone walk up and attack him.
>>78984639
>All dead according to Doom, but the last time Doom said he killed a Beyonder he was wrong so I'd take that with a grain of salt.
It would make more sense if the Beyonders proper never left their white space and the things that Doom killed were just super-Adaptoids that they were using.
>>78984639
thanks by the way
>>78984639
>Brought back by Franklin/Reed/Owen.
Do we actually know this? Or is this just speculation?
If so... why would he even bother bringing them back? Reed and the rest of the Future Foundation (mins Johnny and Ben) have effectively replaced most cosmic beings.
If he DID bring them back, would that mean he brought back ALL the other cosmic entities, including (but not limited to) THE Beyonder? Did he pick and choose?
>>78984587
>That isn't a real answer. That's just handwaving the issue.
Sorry anon that's how plot armor works, it kills everybody except him. Now they can actually say it was because he was a new man but clearly that wasn't in the plans of the writer at the time.
