Do cartoons need stuff like continuity, drama, and lore in order to be truly great?
If live action tv can enter into a golden age of serial story-telling and complex character development, the same can be done for cartoons.
No. Solid characters and good writers are about all you need.
No. What works for one show isn't necessarily important for another. There's more than one genre.
Doesn't hurt.
No.
Not at all
pic related had practically zero
>>78929167
Pic related was also garbage.
It depends on whether you actually want a cartoon with continuity, drama, and lore or not.
Not everything has to be a comedy show.
why should they have drama and lore at all?
fuck off back to /tv/ or /a/
>>78929555
Because not everyone is a child thirsting for blind, empty entertainment that can't stand to think a thought for more than a couple seconds before they get uncomfortable?
>>78929555
>why should they have drama and lore at all?
Because it brings discussion and popularity.
Note how the current cartoons that don't have them (Wander Over Yonder, Harvey Beaks, Gumball, etc.) generate almost no discussion.
>>78928624
Hell no.
Looney Tunes shorts from the 40s had none of that and it stills holds up.
>>78928624
Which books, movies or live action shows were trully considered - seriously - great without continuity, drama or lore? By academy AND general population.
>>78929741
Good point. Never thought about it.
I'd like a cartoon that had no plot or characters or even different scenes. Just a still country landscape without sound or movement, on-screen for 22-minutes.
Comfiest cartoon ever.
>>78929167
But that show was just alright. It's not the best but most certainly not the worst.
>>78929698
you don't have to discuss the shit out of everything
besides the threads about those popular lore cartoons are only filled with waifu and shippingfags
>>78929869
>besides the threads about those popular lore cartoons are only filled with waifu and shippingfags
And comfytoon threads aren't?
No, all it needs is decent writing and likable characters. Too bad the west does not know how to do that with their cartoons so they make unfunny slapstick and unlikable characters and call it a "comedy" to make up for their incompetence.
>>78929698
They do but it's all waifufagging so I guess you got a point. Waifufags needs to be castrated.
>>78929741
Seinfeld
>>78928714
To execs that shit does not make money. And that's why cartoons will always be a stagnated medium that is only seen for kids.
>>78929953
Oh fuck you. Teen Titans Go it's just everything I wanted when I was 9.
>No aesops
>No deep meanings
>Slapstick
>Everyone is an asshole
And everyone hates it. I'm so sad.
>>78930077
Had continuity, had lore, had drama.
>>78929779
Just go look at a sideshow about landscapes.
>>78930151
Just watch The Three Stooges.
>>78929720
No it doesn't. Looney Tunes is boring and bland. And this is someone who watched it as a kid when there was nothing on. Space Jam was the only time I was interested in Looney Tunes.
>>78928624
The Simpsons and SpongeBob SquarePants are the two greatest cartoons to air on television, and they did not have the things you're talking abo-- actually, The Simpsons did drama a few times, come to think of it.
>>78930306
So you literally are incapable of having decent taste.
Whats it like being able to eat shit on a daily basis and not object to it?
I'm not going to dignify that with a (You), faggot
>>78929741
Books and movies are generally stand alone, they don't have continuity, unless were talking literally scene to scene.
>>78930377
Don't be mad that your dadtoon does not hold up.
>>78929953
But TTGo is actually fantastic
>>78930306
Looney Tunes is still considered great, even outside of /co/, your shitty taste won't change anything about that
>>78930337
>The Simpsons and SpongeBob SquarePants are the two greatest cartoons to air on television
You can't be serious. And old Simpsons used to have drama in their episodes all the time.
>>78928722
Truth
>>78930489
Sexualizing Raven and Jinx while every character is yelling about waffles doesn't somehow make a show good.
>>78930552
That stopped being a thing doing a while now. It's starting to become Family Guy.
>>78928624
No, but it's really fucking hard to keep that up and maintain a continuous level of quality.
>>78929720
Anyone who thinks most Looney Tunes, or old cartoons in general, still hold up is kidding themselves. There's no denying their history but they're full of dated pop culture references, re-used plots andstraight up racism, you can "go back to tumblr" me all you want but you know it's trueOld Disney toons, most Tom and Jerry shorts, and most stuff by Tex Avery and the Fleischers are the few cartoons from the "golden age" that mostly still hold up today.
>>78929367
>>78929833
It had no bad episodes though, it had a solid 3 seasons run
>>78930187
I dunno, it's just that the web makes me say the opposite of everything people say. Basically, after getting mad at stuff like TVTropes's DMOS pages and Mr. Enter reviews, I conclude that my ideal cartoon should be like this:
A bunch of bulky, misshapen, guys with liquids oozing out of every hole in their bodies (think some Mega Babies/Brothers Grunt fusion) are assholes to eachother and do nothing but tell rape jokes and fight eachother while spewing cultural references that will be dated after a year (but I don't care because in my mind every book, show, film, game, song, whatever that came out since 1980 is still relevant today). Also they often piss, spit, shit and puke a lot because gross is cool, and they also take a lots of drugs so we can have creepy deranged scenes.
But once per season there is a completely random episode that is in live action and is just two guys talking in a room about politics. Just to piss off the audience.
>>78930306
your kidding right?
No, they just need not shit writing
>>78930507
>Looney Tunes is still considered great, even outside of /co/
To who old Jewish men? Nobody cares about your shitty dadtoons. Enjoy your shriveled dick, old man.
>>78930667
That sounds like Family Guy.
>>78930636
>>78930306
>>78930469
>>78930747
>memeposting
>>78930701
No, old man.
>>78930597
>implying it hasn't always been Family Guy Junior
>>78930800
It's actually the worst parts of Family Guy, Teen Titans Go, later seasons of Simpsons and Spongebob plus The Brothers Grunt, Mega Babies and Allen Gregory.
I also skipped the part where once in a while a character gets killed and the other guys dismember his corpse graphically and eat it.
>>78930841
>someone has an opinion they don't like is somehow a meme
Fuck off.
I personally prefer cartoons with lots of continuity and character development, but I also do like a handful of cartoons that have little to no continuity.
There's nothing wrong with variety
>>78930928
Too bad the west doesn't have variety.
>>78930649
you only think that because it had no good episodes to highlight the bad.
>>78930915
>muh shitposting is not a meme
Don't be mad your memeposting doesn't hold up.
Why would it need continuity or drama to be good?
You're the one who needs to provide evidence here.
>>78930958
Yeah, sadly it doesn't
>>78930973
stop taking the bait
>>78930863
>if you don't only like the trendiest flavor of the month you're an old man
nigga i'm not old and have enjoyed looney toons since childhood
>>78930973
You're just mad that someone actually doesn't like cartoons for old people in the guise of saying "it's a meme". Nice try though.
>>78930567
calm down, Mr. Enter.
>>78931031
Most cartoons below the 90's suck though.
>>78931033
>doubling down on old people cartoon meme
>I'm not mad you're mad
kek at mad memeposter
>>78931064
Is that the only retort you have?
>>78931081
Tell me why Looney Toons is "good" without saying "it's a classic". Are you really this deluded into thinking everybody likes what you like?
>>78928624
yes.
good characters and writing are important, but an internally consistent and evolving world turns good into great.
>>78931148
>Tell me why Looney Toons is "good" without saying "it's a classic".
Tell me why Looney Toons is "bad" without saying "it's old".
>>78930980
It's more fun to bingewatch if there's an overarching story.
>>78931101
no, but it's all that needs to be said.
>>78931194
Lame slapstick, bland artstyle, heavily uses pop culture, everyone has no personality other than a catchphrase or gimmick. It was good for it's time since there was not much variety for the past. I watched this and Tom and Jerry as a kid and I still found it boring.
>>78931166
Ah, soap operas in cartoon format.
>>78931073
>being this unaware of American animation history
there was a shit era during the 1960s-80s but before that was the golden age of animation
>>78931209
What the fuck is so "good" about TTG?
>>78931296
>muh slapstick hatred
>muh pop culture hatred
>everything has no characterization because I say so
Yep, meme responses
>>78931338
Don't be upset, you asked a question and I answered it and all you are doing is making angry greentexts without saying what I said is wrong and why you find Looney Tunes so great and amusing and instead calling everything a meme like a child.
>>78931424
Sounds more like you're upset I pointed out the truth, memeposter.
>calling out b8s
>yet still replying to them
>>78928624
pfff no
>>78931451
There you go, you're still doing it. Can you at least tell me why you are so fond of it then?
>>78931338
So having different opinions is now meme responses? Go back to /v/ with this salt.
>>78930883
The humour is completely different but okay
>>78931536
>posting tumblrtale/undermeme
You're just as awful.
>>78931599
See, just like this.
(You)
>>78928624
Depends on the genre
If it's a comedy it doesn't need it. But if it's something like an adventure action type of show it definitely needs it to be enjoyable for me.
>>78931573
>muh shitposting is an opinion
That's some memeposting right there.
>>78931560
Slapstick is a patrician tier of comedy, pop culture is not bad unless you're someone who still watches Family Guy to complain about it, and characters have actual personalities instead of forced character development.
>>78931700
Dude, just admit you're salty. Why can't you acknowledge that people like different things? Seriously, how old are you?
>>78928624
No
They just need effort and creativity
Which most don't have
Why does Homer look so wierd here?
>>78930841
How is it shitposting? Sorry some people don't share your opinion buddy but pretty much any Looney Tune (with the exception of most shorts directed by Chuck Jones) is dated as fuck.
>>78931745
>doubling down on the memeposting
Looks like someone's getting defensive
>>78931834
Dude, I'm trying to be serious here. It's not even funny, you're fucking insane.
>>78931968
>I'm trying to be serious here.
Funniest thing in the thread so far.
>>78930567
>while every character is yelling about waffles
1 episode out of 100+
>>78928624
Nope. All that stuff is nice but it's ultimately window dressing.
That goes for live action as well.
Super Jail S1 is more artistically and creatively accomplished than any of the "serious lore cartoons".
>>78931326
it's a parody of it's self, it recognises how silly the whole idea is.
kind of like how sonic boom is self aware.
>>78931297
not quite, but character evolution and growth over a shows run adds to the richness. it's not the technical aspects that make something great, but the details, the subtlties that reveal themselves on the second viewing that make you sit up and think "there's more here".
when characters slightly change their behaviour in response to events, or show that they harbour their own thought process beneath their actions rather than just being puppets for the writers.
>>78928841
/thread.
Nah.
>>78928624
Any show without continuity will never be anything past an 8/10, and the 8 means it's hitting every comedic point.
>>78928624
No.
But every story comes to an end.
>>78929367
> garbage
why exactly ? what's the matter ?
>>78933421
and every bum does a fart
Depends, some terrible shows can have terrible quality with or without lores and dramas. For example, annoying orange and Johnny.test.
>>78928624
Great thread topic, OP.
It can't be denied that a lot -- if not all -- modern long-running animated cartoons with a sizable fanbase have continuity and lore to some degree. Even for shows that are not drastically affected by the happenings of the previous season or episode often have a semblance of a continuity that can manifest as simple fan service for long-time watchers.
In my opinion, continuity and lore is certainly not required, but it certainly helps a lot. It fleshes out the characters and helps build the world -- in my opinion the two of the most important factors of good writing. If it feels like the characters are living out their own lives that we don't see on-screen or on the pages that's good story telling. Having a continuity keeps the story your are trying to tell well grounded.
>>78929167
And then it got cancelled after 30-ish episodes.
It's a decent run for what it was, but that's almost nothing.
>>78933418
SuperJail S1 is better than any cartoon with continuity on artistic and creative value alone.
>>78928624
No, but if they DO use any of them, they need to at least keep it in the books and not RETCON it out
This isn't my place to talk as I largely watch anime, whereas the only cartoons I'm currently enjoying are the Big 3 of /co/, and occasionally KoTH; but I don't think it's a problem with the cartoons themselves.
The real problem is public perception.
There is an underlying fear beneath the expectation that cartoons can be nothing but comedic, that anything otherwise will not succeed. And given how companies don't really want to put forth money on projects unless they're guaranteed successes, it's easy to see why cartoons have essentially stagnated.
However if anything, the popularity of Steven Universe goes to show the cartoons don't have to follow the same patterns to be extremely popular.
Honestly I believe the only reason why anons in this thread would disagree with such a sentiment, is because they've long grown accustomed to the same shit that's been shoveled down their throats for years. At this point they're fine with anything that manages to fire off a few electrons in their beaten brains, and can't even imagine something better.
Getting out of the "animation age ghetto" isn't about being able to get a laugh of the shows you're watching, it's about getting people to understand that animation has almost INFINITE potential, and yet it's squandered over the same garbage in the west.
When everything is shit, you settle for the least shitty. That said,I hate/dislike almost every 3d animated film that's been released for several years now, given how bland and safe they always are.
>>78930636
>everything else but Looney Tunes from that era somehow holds up
Want to know how I know you're just a retarded shitposter?
also
>racial stereotypes=racism
>racism is bad
>racism should be expunged from all media ever
You're exactly the type of cuck that would remove "nigger" from Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn.
>>78930636
It does hold up to this day, wanna know why?
Because that shit is slowly getting re-released, unedited in all it's "dated" glory. You know why?
Because the people that can actually ENJOY THINGS can watch bugs bunny make a bad black joke, laugh and then continue on being a decent person.
Only people that think everything is shit and can't enjoy anything bitch about pointless stuff like this shit and try and ruin it for everyone else.
Pic VERY MUCH RELATED
>>78930306
Bait
11/10
Go back to Reddit
etc.
>>78930306
i coulndt enjoy looney toons because they played them for like 4 hours in a row when I was a kid and i got so tired of it, now as an adult I can see how brilliant it could be
>>78928624
Yes and no.
It's easier to build attachment if there is a continuity and even in shows that strive to be non sequiter random or adventure of the week, there always seems to be some things connecting them together even if it's not in chronological order like running jokes or a similar theme.
Oglaf started out just being random sword and sorcery fantasy and sexual humor with different characters and situations every comic but there are mini story lines that go for months and reoccuring character and sometimes they cross pathes.
What kills a cartoon or comic to me is retcon and reboots.
Why the fuck should I care anymore and say a particular comic or cartoon character or story line had a profound impact on my life and influenced my way of living and thinking or career path or hobby and then 20 years later or sometimes sooner the original origin and story is trashed and a completely new mythos is written and is different but still has the old names of the characters I used to know or love?
>>78928714
That shit is so overblown.
>>78928957
It can.
>>78930306
>>78928624
No all they need is good writing. That being said it would be nice if adult American animation would stop thinking EVERYTHING has to be a fucking sitcom. Moonbeam City greatly suffered from that.
>>78933453
Nothing, that anon's just a Jewish conservative pro-life born again overweight Asian homophobic lesbian broad who cuts herself
>>78945635
>He said garbage so is a Tumblrina
>>78930980
Hes asking if they could, not that they absolutely 100% would.
>>78948833
Stop embarrassing yourself with that tumblrina bullshit and go rewatch the show, mate.
>>78928624
It doesn't need an overarching plot, but good storytelling per episode. There's also too many animated series that are just purely comedy, and pure comedy is a mediocre animation at best.
>>78949261
1) I'm not that anon
2) I like Drawn Together
3) I just don't get why not liking Drawn Together istantly makes you a Tumblrina
>>78939195
>racism should be expunged from all media ever
if children are the target audience and it has no educational value: yes, absolutely.
Tom Sawyer embedded words like nigger in a historical context and gave us Jim to relate to.
Racist jokes in old Bugs Bunny and Disney cartoons lack that part. That's worse than 5000 double niggers in Tom Sawyer.
Racist cartoons for adults are another can of worms.
>>78949394
Thing is he was never called a Tumblrina but it was a joke taken straight out of the show when they got a bad review from Entertainment weekly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ddp1pf_MB8
It's just interesting to notice how Drawn Together apparently called the typical Tumblrina before Tumblr was an actual thing.
>>78931599
Are you really going to bash a fine piece of interactive fiction because of its fanbase? Do you only watch cartoons whose only fans are the Cool Guys, instantly dropping it when Jimmy's retarded little brother buys a copy?
>>78939055
>Honestly I believe the only reason why anons in this thread would disagree with such a sentiment, is because they've long grown accustomed to the same shit that's been shoveled down their throats for years. At this point they're fine with anything that manages to fire off a few electrons in their beaten brains, and can't even imagine something better.
I've seen a lot of this. Really low standards for everything.
>>78949438
>Racist jokes in old Bugs Bunny and Disney cartoons lack that part. That's worse than 5000 double niggers in Tom Sawyer.
You think children were the target audience for Bugs Bunny? Also, please kill yourself cuck.
>>78928624
If you're ok with them being just cartoons, then no. If you want them to be more than just cartoons, then absolutely.
>>78949532
I didn't remember that joke, sorry.
>>78939195
>racism is bad
How is it not?
>>78928624
Yes
>>78930649
>>78930968
Except for Toot Goes To Bollywood, the show was solid because every episode delivered on somewhat clever 2edgy humor. It did exactly what it intended.The closest it got to drama was a few Xandir episodes. I love the show, wouldn't say it's truly great, but it's pretty nifty for what it is.
>someone says looney tunes are boring
>30+ replies unable to handle someone with different tastes, saying it's bait, that one cannot possibly dislike them, spamming >>>/r/eddit, and that every single criticism of the show is just memeing
To think that many of these people probably complain about /pol/'s exact same attitude when someone doesn't like trump.
Let you find a bit of introspection in your attitude
>>78928624
>continuity
Of course not
>drama
A little bit of drama goes a long way, especially in a comedy series. So I'd say yes.
>lore
No. If anything caring about "muh coherent universe" makes it worse.
>>78930636
>Anyone who thinks most Looney Tunes, or old cartoons in general, still hold up is kidding themselves.
I watched some old Disney shorts and there were still entertaining. Hell, a lot of old Tom & Jerry episodes are still fucking funny.
Nothing is ever funny. Humor is about as real as Armenian genocide was.
No. But that doesn't mean they're not nice to have too.
>>78928624
No, but having it does create an expectation for greatness, leading to a much harder fall when it cannot reach that expectation. Having a lack of it doesn't remove that potential to be great though.
Stuff like Chowder in the past, or more recently Wander Over Yonder, don't have continuity, or even much drama unless it's a set up for one episode, and their still fine.
>>78952926
>>78930636
Are you really so tired of life?
>>78952907
he said old Disney cartoons and Tom and Jerry still hold up
>>78930636
>dated pop culture references
This is what turns me off a show, old or new. Looney Tunes would also still hold up if they didn't drag on jokes for so long.
Why are people so uppity about someone not liking an old cartoon?
>>78952755
in /co/'s defense he posted his opinion in a pretty baity way
why the fuck are people crying this much about pop culture references in Looney Tunes?
Is it really that bad that you learned that Frank Sinatra existed? Or that Bing Crosby was popular once?
It's fucking ridiculous to complain about it considering LT used to air before big movies
>>78930841
No, seriously, cartoons of that era are generally pretty shit.
>>78953716
le RIGHT generation amirite
>>78929779
I'd like a cartoon that is about short stories with different characters and situations each episode. Like Each episode has a theme the shorts revolve around.
>>78953223
no, he did not. I'm tired of people falling for bait, and thinking that hurting feelings = "next level trolling xD"
>>78954016
how are posts like >>78930747 and >>78930469
not baity
>>78954261
how are they bait? have you never seen people getting mad on the internet?
No, the best cartoons to come out recently, Looney Toons Show, Magical World of Gumball and TTGO don't have it. And ofcourse some of the best cartoons of all time like Spongebob and Simpsons don't have it. Also, Gravity Falls and Steven Universe are horrible.
>>78949532
>It's just interesting to notice how Drawn Together apparently called the typical Tumblrina before Tumblr was an actual thing.
You do realize that people liked that existed before tumblr right?
>>78933453
For one the show is incredibly dated, even back then, and the humor is edgy and gross for the sake of it without being clever or funny.
Good characters make good show.
Good characters mean they'd have to carry through the show without fluctuating wildly and not forgetting things, thus creating continuity
Good characters will clash with each others generating drama
Lore is somewhat hard to define so I skip on it.
You can still have decent unambitious gag-a-day cartoon without good characters. But it won't be truly good. Attempt to impose drama or continuity on cardboard characters will make horrid result. Continuity and drama are not making any fiction good. They are symptoms of good fiction.
>>78957537
> the show is incredibly dated
i didn't know we are supposed to loves only new things and hate old things just because it's dated, Jurassic Park is very dated too, it's a bad movie now just because we are in 2016 ?
> the humor is edgy and gross for the sake of it without being clever or funny.
well that's not a real problem because it's done on purpose anyway, they perfectly knows they are stupid and they loves that, it's just a big weird trip, also the fun depend of the point of view of each and this show countain some very clever jokes or quotes.
this show is just without of political satire and some people hate this kind of humor when this is without critics about society.
yeah the characters are assholes but this is a parody of reality shows, and reality shows are about garbage people with no talents and decadent lifestyle, this show is just a mirror of that but very exagerrated.
>>78959155
>i didn't know we are supposed to loves only new things and hate old things just because it's dated, Jurassic Park is very dated too, it's a bad movie now just because we are in 2016 ?
What the fuck are you talking about? The humor in DT is dated because nothing in the context of the writing is relevant anymore something like Jurassic Park is timeless even if its stuck in an era different from now. People will always remember JP while no one will remember a short lived shitty animated reality show.
>well that's not a real problem because it's done on purpose anyway, they perfectly knows they are stupid and they loves that
You're literally saying its okay because they know they're shit, you can be stupid all you want you just need to be funny which DT wasn't.
>>78954612
>TTGO
