Batman is a selfish, terrible hero. He would rather watch endless amounts of people get slaughtered by these villians because he's to scared of hurting his own feelings by breaking his stupid self-imposed no kill rule. He is so self-righteous that he will let millions die just to mantain a moral high ground. If he was a real man, a REAL hero, he would absolutely take out those villians and put a massive dent in this vicious cycle.
The real problem with Batman:
>Scott Snyder
Blame DC Comics.
>>78508261
Is it not enough that Batman does the police's job for them? Why must he also do the legal system's?
You're imposing real-world logic onto a serial adventure story.
>>78508261
Why don't you go kill villains then, faggot?
>>78508261
There's a reason he doesn't kill people. He knows that deep down he's not well, and that if he crossed that line, he'd become just like the people he fights against
>>78508261
What If a Gotham cop just shot one of Batmans villains while he was in custody
>>78508261
You can't blame the failures of the court system on him. If the people of Gotham wanted to end the cycle, they'd vote for the death penalty.
>>78508279
the real problem with Batman:
continuity/status quo
I don't understand why comics don't just jump around like South Park. You already know the characters. Is Kenny (the Joker) dead? Who knows? You'll find out, in THIS reimagining!
>>78508367
>Batman prep times days in advance for this impromptu even some how with out his Nostradamus powers
>officer new guy shoots the joker
>batman breaks through the ceiling and jumps in front of the bullet
>beats up the cop while losing a lot of blood
>Joker doesn't give a shit
>batman crawls home only to do this shit all over again next time Joker stubs his toe
>>78508427
You just know it'd happen.
>he's already imprisoned, you maniac!
How come Bruce is the only one that get shit for this? There are hundreds of Heroes,maybe thousands, that don't kill but it's always "Why doesn't Batman kill Joker"
>>78508457
Batman's villains have a much higher body count that most other Rogue's Galleries.
The real question is why aren't the citizens of Gotham lynching some of these mass murdering fucks? They don't even have superpowers.
>>78508427
>>78508440
While I can't say this wouldn't happen, because it essentially has in at least a few canons, this only happens in the worst-written Batman stories. Every character gets their share of hack writers who don't really "get" their psychology. Apart from Adam West's take, I can't see any mainstream take on Batman behaving this way without seriously breaking character to facilitate status quo on the behest of a total garbage writer.Which is double stupid, because any well-written Joker would just escape before then, establishing his credibility as a foe to a super detective martial arts tactician by actually successfully evading him, AND obviating the need for discussions of Gotham's bizarre adherence to insanity defences and Batman's effectiveness.
>>78508549
>Batman's villains have a much higher body count that most other Rogue's Galleries.
lol ok
>>78508549
I mean, that's pretty arguable. Superman villains sometimes destroy inhabited worlds. Same for any other serious cosmic hero.
>>78508457
>How come Bruce is the only one that get shit for this?
Maybe because Joker is Batman's archenemy?
Also, remember Red Hood or what name was?
>Joker kills Todd
>Todd wants to kill Joker
>Batman stops Todd
>>78508581
He doesn't want his adoptive son to completely give into hatred and vengeance, and devolve further into zombie madness.
>>78508575
>>78508579
I'm talking street level villains here, not cosmic level. The Justice system is designed to handle those. A Darkseid like figure on the other hand? A Brainiac? Mongol? A planet killer? Maybe people should be asking why Supes doesn't kill.
I've pushed people who certainly didn't deserve it into traffic.
I'll do in the Joker for free.
>>78508261
So many of Batman's villains are ridiculously popular. We all know popular villains don't stay dead so what's even the fucking point of killing them? Just give him a code he won't break so they don't have to deal with that nonsense.
It works and is probably one of the reasons he's remained so damn popular for so long.
>>78508615
>Maybe people should be asking why Supes doesn't kill.
Batman would stop him.
>>78508615
If the justice system was designed to handle any of them, we wouldn't come to the point where people can convincingly insist that a vigilante has a moral obligation to kill people.
>>78508615
Even in terms of street level heroes, Batman's rogues don't have a body count that high. Mostly because they're very territorial and rarely leave Gotham.
The Teen Titans are worse; Deathstroke killed an entire city and Cheshire nuked a whole fucking country. They're both street level, so the Titans should be murdering them ASAP.
>>78508635
I'd cut myself on that edged, but I wasprepared.
>>78508569
>I can't see any mainstream take on Batman behaving this way without seriously breaking character to facilitate status quo on the behest of a total garbage writer.
Today, I highly doubt scenario with cop and imprisoned Joker and Batman jumping out of nowhere to punch out cop would actually happen. 20-30 years ago? Definitely.
>>78508643
And vice versa, in most canons.
>>78508671
How was it said, Superman has Batman to stop him, Batman has League to stop him? Can't remember where I saw that, though.
>>78508665
20-30 years ago was either the 90s (see also: hack writers) or back when the Joker was less murderous.
>>78508655
Joker and Mad Hatter each have body counts into the thousands. I don't know why Gotham mobs didn't tear Hatter to shreds after his first nu52 appearance.
I know about Cheshire nuking some backwater, but what did Deathstroke do and when?
>>78508679
Justice League: Doom. A good line that I could totally see Batman saying, but realistically, stopping either of them would take a League effort, as they are normally written.
>>78508671
>implying anyone could stop him
Reminder that Earth-51 Batman killed every supervillain on the planet after Jason's death and no one could stop him.
>>78508687
Deathstroke dropped Chemo on Bludhaven in Infinite Crisis; later during Morrison's run Dick says Slade killed 100,000+ people as a result of that.
>>78508687
How do either Joker or Hatter have body counts into the thousands?
>Reminder that Earth-51 Batman killed every supervillain on the planet after Jason's death and no one could stop him.
Did he kill League, too?
>>78508261
So why cant the Gotham govenment do the dirty deed? Why put all the responsibility on Batman? Dont tell me they also have a no-kill rule?
Checkmate faggot.
>>78508261
>If he was a real man, a REAL hero, he would absolutely take out those villians and put a massive dent in this vicious cycle.
And then what?
What's the exit strategy?
What's the course of action that doesn't just create a power vacuum or an untenable fascist state with high rates of recidivism once he dies of old age?
"Let's run in and take out the bad guys" is childish and naive because there will always be bad guys unless you fix the underlying causes.
>>78508885
>And then what?
>heroes take out all villains
>then we get hero vs hero
>forever
>>78508367
He'd survive. He always survives. Back when Batman didn't have his No Kill Code, he still survived, the first of his Golden Age villains to actually do it.
Possibly the only one too.
>>78508885
>Implying Killfags understand the concept of a power vacuum.
>>78508575
>Darkseid
>Superman villain
>>78508698
Is that from a previous canon, or is that how Kamandi's world got into its state in the New 52?
Because killing these bad guys wouldn't make a difference.
There's always going to be evil. If it's not the Joker, it'd be someone else. It's a constant, not a variable. Evil will invariably exist.
Batman can't stop everyone from dying. But he can become something more than a man. A symbol. A legend.
Batman's not killing people is about more than saving lives. It's about saving the soul of the city. You might not be down for that. You might be grounded in the "here and now" and more practical with the your life and the lives of people you know.
I understand that. But Batman is making a choice. To look past that, and towards the long game. Be becoming this incorruptible symbol of justice he's hoping to stimulate a change BEYOND the lives he's saving. He's trying to change the heart and soul of Gotham City itself.
That's also the reason so many villains, notably Joker, don't kill Batman when they get the chance. That would make him a martyr. Joker is playing the long game too. The fight for Gotham's soul. He NEEDS Batman to be corruptible to win it.
Not a perfect answer by any means. But, I think, a pretty good one.
>>78508261
Hey, Red Hood. Go whine about your daddy issues to that Tameranean cumslut and the ginger instead
>>78508698
Batman's my favourite superhero, but Jesus, this is battarded unless Earth-51's Batman is unusually super or the other characters in that world are all relatively shit.
>>78508936
He sometimes is? He was the endgame of Superman: TAS.
>>78508261
If you were a real man, you would be out there killing the villains instead of bitching about it on a Javanese bossanova board.
>>78508261
Now, this is semi-related to what the OP is saying.
I can't help but think that there's a more effective way to, you know, fight crime. Can't he get himself a private milita with jackboots and assault rifles? Alternatively, make himself some kind of powered armor?
Like, I saw the trailer for Civil War, where Cap and Bucky are punching Tony Stark. They are punching the FUCK out of him, and he's shrugging it off because he's basically wearing a tank. We're talking an alcoholic inventor who's not really in good physical condition, and two Aryan ubermensch are kicking the shit out of him...And it doesn't matter, any more than you can punch out a tank.
Like, Batman's main advantage is being fucking rich. Going out to fight crime just gives an angry black man a chance to hit him with a crowbar from behind/give the white race a taste. Can't he use more technology and so on?
If I was a superhero, I'd be commandeering the stuff I looted off supervillains all the time. (I guess this is a more a Flash thing - i.e. The Rogues and the guns, which the Flash doesn't need because he has actual super powers) but Batman is just a dude in a costume.
Hell, technically Spider-man is better off than him, because Spiderman has serious super powers. He can lift and throw a train carriage.
>>78509186
>Red Hood gets Joker
>won't kill him because Lobdell
That's how I remember.
>Why aren't my funny books more realistic?
>>78509169
I imagaine a sociopathic Batman with access to the JL's resources and years of prep time would be a fucking nightmare, so while ridiculous it's not completely unbelievable. He probably had allies as well, though I haven't read the issue the panel in question is from.
>>78509188
Well in regards to the armor question, I assume part of it is self-discipline. If he made fighting crime too easy he might fall out of fighting shape, and then he'd come to rely on the armor, something he doesn't want to do.
He has in fact shown the aptitude to use armor when deemed necessary.
>>78509299
Yeah, but there are power-armored heroes in DC, too. I'm just wondering exactly what the freaks of Gotham can do against something like that. Even the really stupid Bat-Gordon is basically invulnerable when he's inside his armor.
Seriously, nothing less than a rocket launcher is going to take you down. And when most of your Rogues Gallery relies on a snappy suit, mental disorder and lots of henchmen, they're fucked.
>>78509318
Don't forget he's basically a ninja, and derives a lot of his fear-inspiring capabilities from his ability to move about unseen and unheard. A power-suit removes that capability. Also if the suit somehow dies or becomes frozen, he's stuck in it.
It inhibits a lot of his dynamicity.
>>78508698
>Deathstroke dropped Chemo on Bludhaven in Infinite Crisis; later during Morrison's run Dick says Slade killed 100,000+ people as a result of that.
Ah, fair enough, though he was far from the only one responsible.
>>78508708
Read the Hatter's nu52 introduction, he kills thousands in that story alone. Any real world city would have executed him for that.
>>78509179
See, this is why cartoons and comics should be split.
>>78508261
As much as I love shit talking Batman (and trust me I do. I worship at the Alter of Hal Jordan. As far as I'm concerned Batman's just a fancy ninja with too much money who is far outclassed by the rest of the Justice League), the flaw isn't in his code, it's in the system.
Batman captures these criminals and gives them to the cops. They have due process and are sentenced. But despite the horrible shit they've done Gotham City's legal system refuses to execute mass murders like the Joker or Zsasz.
Don't blame the Batman, blame the Judge.
>>78509811
>>78508261
He's a pretty good investigator though.
Like in this, how did he know?
https://youtu.be/SzbmEU9Ap0Q?t=1378
>>78508261
...couldn't some of the Arkham guards just surround the Joker in his cell and blast him away?
>>78508927
They don't, true. But they need to read TDKR. After Batman had locked away all of the supervillains, the mutant gang eventually arose. And they did just as much random killing as the Joker did in his prime. Their leader, even if a 55 year old Batman beat him, managed to create a small army that was armed to the teeth with military grade weapons. That's what a power vaccum did in TDKR-verse.
>>78509188
All bitching about the death penalty aside, Batman really is more about fighting crime than stopping crime. Instead of using his money to fix society, he's dressing up as a bat and punching criminals. He's very good at it, and his actions are probably helping people, but he's not really concerned with making the streets safer in the most efficient way possible.
The whole thing is just his way of coping with his parents getting shot.
>>78510171
>Instead of using his money to fix society,
He does that. But you don't read comics.
>>78510171
>Instead of using his money to fix society
Wayne Industries donates shitloads to charity, funds plenty of urban improvement projects, and tries to create as many jobs as it can sustain
if it weren't for Wayne Industries, Gotham would be as bad as Hub City
>>78509945
>lights conveniently go out
>guards end up dead on the ground with Joker outside of his cell... somehow
Alternatively...
>lights conveniently go out
>all of the guards end up on the floor KO'd with Batman standing among them because he knew of their plans to kill Joker... somehow
Come on, you know that's exactly how they'd pussy out of something inescapable like that.
>>78510209
But that's not really what he IS, is it? How many comics are there, compared to comics where batman is punching a criminal, where he's shown devoting any significant resources to removing the underlying causes of crime?
>>78508261
Batman =/= Hero.
All of these BatFappers losing their shit over their Costumed God getting his kiddy logic shoved in.
Batman isn't a hero.
He's a sociopath with money and a fetish for spandex.
As a child he witnessed a traumatic event that still emotionally cripples him as an adult.
He devotes his life to violence toward people totally unrelated to his parents' death, and he's also too much of a coward to do much more than throw a child's tantrum toward anyone vaguely resembling a criminal.
The only thing that separates Batman from the "villains" he stalks, assaults, and traumatizes.. Is that he chooses to make the victims of his psychosis, people who are written to be black and white evil.
Every writer has to bend over backwards, and create a cartoonish parody of a real life threat in order to justify Batman even existing, let alone being recognized as a good guy.
All of these stories about Superman going evil, or WonderWoman, or some other purely fictional character involve them adopting Batman's mode of thinking, and dealing with issues.
Batman is written to appear plausible in real life, but once you peel back the forced "golden boy" persona they stretch over him like a "nothing to see here" tarp.. You see the very same evil, corrupted, paranoid, dissociative, sociopath that he is pitted against in every arc.
That's not an interesting character, that's poor motivation, poor character construction, and ham fisted storytelling that BatFappers swallow whole.
Batman has been driven beyond the believable, to the point where his entire existence is a lie to make Edgelords of Fedoria fall over themselves in rampant fan gushing over a "dark and brooding" justification for being a social retard.
If you think Batman is cool, I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems, but idolizing a emotionally crippled asshole, ain't one.
>>78509945
No, because the Joker has slowly engineered their relationships, over several years, to the point where all the guards hate each other too much to cooperate.
A few casual mentions of something another guard allegedly said. Some pens stolen. Pickles added to a sandwich, with another guard tricked into giving the guard eating it a smug, knowing look. Unsourceable rumors, all carefully managed with the obsessive care of a dangerously clever madman locked in a cell with nothing else to do.
Anyone looking to murder the Joker in his sleep will have to do it alone, with everyone else trying to stop him out of spite. And somehow, even though he's permanently isolated and should have no way to communicate with the rest of the asylum, the Joker always knows.
>>78509169
He can do everything pretty fast. And he will always have people behind him. He is probably the second hero with more heroes on his back after superman.
>>78510436
Geoff pls go.
>>78510436
Please keep this pasta alive, anon
>>78510542
And you forget massive bribes to always have someone watching his back. Or asking how their 4 years old called daisy is.
>>78509811
He's a Superman villain in many Superman comics, too. He just also does other stuff.
>>78510390
Few, because the comic is titled "Batman" and not "Bruce Wayne and the Wayne Foundation". And the reason they went with the title and the focus they did?
YOUR PREFERRED HALF OF THE STORY IS FUCKING BORING.
>>78508261
Maybe his villains should stop being so popular then
>>78508261
>Implying it's the people that matter, in a Batman story
The sad thing is that the normal people in Batman's world, mean nothing more than a plot device.
Even Batman himself takes a back seat to what people really read his books for.
Batman fans are really fans of his villains, and how, no matter what they do, they'll have the universe bend over backwards to fulfill their psychotic needs, or give them a slap on the wrist(compared to what they do to the town) before they escape again.
Shit, you could have Batman adopting strings of kids which just go straight to the grave, and it would mean NOTHING to him, OR the intended audience, as long as the villain's still there for them to live vicariously through.
The usual Batman reader feels nothing for everyday people, and it shows.
>>78509299
There was a comic about that. His company's stock basically tanked and he could no longer afford his crazy high tech gadgets, and he realized that he had become dependent on them, and his skills had gotten rusty.
>>78515564
>not wanting to read about Bruce Wayne and the Wayne Foundation
Maybe YOU'RE fucking boring.
Seriously, though, that's basically what I was saying. Civic reforms aren't a huge part of Batman's character. He's more about punching criminals and working a bat motif into everything.
Calling him a philanthropist is kind of like calling him a vampire hunter because he fought Dracula once. It's not an important part of him. The important part is an insane vigilante.
And that's just fine. Comics would be a lot more boring if they were only about sane and rational people.
>>78508367
Batman saves the Joker like always.
>>78508376
They did. Joker survived and Bruce helped get him out of it.
>>78508665
I swear I read that scenario happening around ten years ago.
>>78516903
If Batman is even able to do that, the question is less "why doesn't he kill the Joker" and more "why does he let Joker kill people". All he'd have to do is follow the Joker everywhere, like he's already doing apparently, and get in the way when he tries to kill someone.
The conclusion, of course, is that Batman is both omnipotent and benevolent, but wants His subjects to have free will. Batman doesn't kill the Joker because humanity chose the Joker. Only through Robin dying for our sins can we be cleansed, and enter the Batcave.
>>78510436
>Batman is written to appear plausible in real life
>plausible
>goes out every night to beat multiple armed men unconscious with his bare hands
>has never once sustained a fatal or permanently crippling injury
Batsy's just as unrealistic as anyone else, he just operates at a lower power scale.
>>78508261
It's not Batman's fault the state can't seem to keep a single significant person he caught behind bars for a week.
He's selfish because he keeps cleaning up after the incompetents that can't catch or hold these whackos but won't become a murderer and lose the GCPD's blind eye that allows him to operate successfully?The real problem with Batman is the shitty requirement that all of his villains, even the ones he's been fighting since the 40s, regularly escape from prison, and writers keep escalating Joker's antics while also making him completely impervious to the consequences of his actions through increasingly flimsy justifications. From what I've heard, Joker was originally supposed to die for real shortly after his debut, because there were concerns having him as a regular would make Batman look bad...if that's so, it was rather prophetic.
Villains killing thousands every week is retarded but the worst offender is the Joker. I avoid anything he's in nowadays. Dude could nuke a country and he'd still be put into Arkham. He's overexposed and has a godlike plot armor. I liked him more when he didn't have to murder a dozen innocents per minute to show how edgy and insane HA HA HA HA he is.
>>78517920
>What is Knightfall?
>>78520282
A comic book
>>78508261
>ITT a bunch of edgy 15 year olds completely miss the point of fictional superheroes
