>>78363815
Up.

>>78363815
I'm confused. What are you asking exactly?

>>78365217
How is Secret Wars happening without Beyonder?

(being ret-connected and killed)

>>78365542
They appeared in issue #0 in flashback.

But SW5 is more homaging the whole "Doom with Godhood stolen from the Beyonders" aspect of FF.

>>78365542
I'm still confused where your problem here is. Secret Wars only happened because Doom killed the Beyonders. Had Doom not killed the Beyonders prior to Secret Wars then they would have succeeded in destroying everything rather than enough surviving to create Battleworld.

>>78365583
Part of the problem is that Hickman kept fucking teasing us with the return of OG Beyonder. But we never got him. Even though he made two fucking covers, he declined to include him in the mini outside the token bit where Hickman officially and irrevocably declared Illuminati #4 never happened.

>>78365680
So this means that Beyonder isn't dead and wasn't retconnected to be a Mutant Inhuman?

>>78365725
He was never retconned to be a mutant inhuman. Anyone that actually read the comic could tell that the whole "mutant inhuman" thing was just the Beyonder fucking with the illuminati, and after the comic came out, Brevoort, Bendis, and the Marvel Handbook all confirmed that to be the case. At no point was he ever a mutant-inhuman, but someone that takes everything at face value and can't understand subtext read the comic, then updated wikipedia, then everyone that doesn't read comics and only reads wikipedia started spouting the whole "inhuman-mutant" thing as fact.

>>78365725
He was retconned to be a "child unit" from the Beyondverse, much weaker than the Beyonders who killed the Living Tribunals and set the incursions in motion.

>>78365725
When Illuminati #4 first came out, it was such fucking piece of fail in terms of all forms of basic research, Marvel basically didn't even TRY to pull their usual bullshit they did with Bendis at the time, telling fans to fuck off over them calling out Bendis's ignorance of basic continuity and shit. They meekly said nothing as fans declared the story non-canon and never once did they try and force other writers to reference it.

Time Runs Out basically is the first time they have officially declared it bullshit, via having Hank Pym and Black Panther refer to the Beyonder from SW 1-3 as being a "child Beyonder unit" (referencing Englehart's origin of the Beyonder being a baby cosmic cube) made to look like man, with the other Illuminati guys acknowledging this when talking to them about it.

>>78365842
In Hickman's run, I mean.

>>78365833
Bendis and Brevoort only walked back it when it came out and there was a huge shit storm and Bendis flat out CLEARLY being caught doing zero reference. So it was largely ignored but never fucking outright stated as being lies in text anywhere until Time Runs Out.

>>78365912
>So it was largely ignored but never fucking outright stated as being lies in text
Except in the Official Marvel Handbook which is the declared official canon.

>>78365842
Yes, that was the first retcon, with the Beyonder becoming a Cosmic Cube and all, I'm talking about the first overpowered incarnation.

>>78365833

Sorry, but this sounds too much like your headcanon for me.

They needed to get rid of the Beyonder, he was made when the Marvel Multiverse wasn't designed as "infinite" and the TOAA didn't exist, and in his current state it was impossible.

So they did all of that shit to get rid of him and make Cosmic Hierarchy more clear.

>>78363815

Huh?