should the Punisher always be part of the Marvel universe or he should only exist in grounded reality?
What I love about the Punisher is that Frank Castle feels like his own brand of characer, like Judge Dredd, Sargent Rock or Hellboy.
Also Punisher thread
>>78087870
Punisher will always be shit.
>>78087870
is just that Punisher feels out of place right next to characters like Captain America or Spider-man.
Like having a comic book character next to a real person, in this case Frank Castle
That's why Franken Castle has to be one of the most '' missing the point of the character '' moments that I can think off
The only Punisher I have ever enjoyed was on a world without capes, so I guess I don't really like him being around super powered people.
Or there might no relation and it was just well written.
>>78087933
The whole fun of a shared universe is there are all kinds of different sides to it.
At the same time that Iron Man is fighting Kang traveling through fucking time, there's still people being sold into sex slavery in New York. It's the same way that a university with the most educated scientists in the country still has to have some guy as the janitor to take care of the toilets and trash.
You also realize Punisher began as a Spider-Man character, right?
>>78087933
>Captain America
You mean the guy that was ok with nagasaki and hiroshima and drone attacks?
>>78088158
This.
I know"autistic" isn't the right word, but DAMN the people that think a shared universe has to explain the fact that it is set up that way to facilitate MORE stories, not less.
The people that need to know "Why didn't the Avengers just take care of it?" for every single problem. Same shit is happening with the movies now. "Where was SHIELD during all that? That NEEEEEDS to be explained!"
No. Just no.
>>78088251
to be fair Cap was already an ice-cube before Japan got nuked. That's the reason Japan got nuked cause Cap wasn't around to kick their asses
>>78088251
Did they retcon that story where the government knew where he was frozen in ice but left him alone because they were afraid he would stop the bombings?
>>78088533
They had played with all that several times, he used to be anti-vietnam, but after 9/11 it was retconed that he needed to learn all the names of all the dead in the wars he failed to go. Now with all the movies Cap is more "liberal" and at the same time is a bigger statist shill.
>feels like his own brand of character
Really? Because I've never gotten at all.
More characters in general should inhabit separate realities with shared universes or crossovers being a rare exception.
>>78087933
>acting like the punisher is a grounded or realistic character
Come on son, nigga has a costume and a codename.
No I think the Punisher should be apart of the regular MU. Sure he's just a regular dude, but so is Tony Stark and no one complains about him. Franks short comings can easily be shored up by the fact that there's plenty of tech out there that can do the same for him what the armor does for Iron Man.
I personally always thought the Punisher would do best as a janitor of sorts. Marvel introduces a new super villain, he sucks ass no one likes him and sales drop. After that they call the punisher in to kill him off. What's so hard about keeping a normal human in the race with a bunch of super powered people?
>>78088773
Cap has always been a liberal.
>>78089024
That wasn't Civil War, that was Marvel Zombies.
>>78087870
That image is annoying me.
This may be the only good thing to come from Civil War
>The Punisher
>grounded
He's a relic of 70's/80's action movies, Frank is about as "grounded" as John Matrix from Commando.
Garth Ennis didn't create the character, nor does hi have ownership of him or how he should be written. I like MAX but it's not the sole interpretation of the character.
>>78089019
>I personally always thought the Punisher would do best as a janitor of sorts. Marvel introduces a new super villain, he sucks ass no one likes him and sales drop. After that they call the punisher in to kill him off.
That's basically what The Scourge's job was in the 80's/90's.
>>78087870
>>78089065
I guess it's true when they say don't meet your heroes.
>>78088878
What are you some kind of a fantasy segregationist? A shared universe makes everything feel bigger and more connected.
>>78089097
yeah but is popoular opinion that Max Punisher is best Punisher by far
>>78089162
Doesn't mean that's the only viable interpretation.
One of the only good things in Civil War
>>78089162
That's fine.
But it's still not Ennis' character any more then Daredevil was Frank Miller's. Iconic runs don't stop people from doing different things with these characters, that's part of the fun of different writers on these properties.
Also I just kind of inherently reject the view that the Punisher is a serious and mature character for mature people like myself. He's a guy who runs around shooting mobsters with a skull on his chest, you may as well try and argue that the Mack Bolan books are serious and grounded and real. Ennis wrote some fucking awesome pulp but that doesn't somehow change the fact that Frank is a ridiculous character who would have gone the way of all those other post-Death Wish vigilante characters from the 70's/80's if it wasn't for Big Two's reluctance to scuttle characters.
>>78089324
But that was actually incredible retarded.
>>78089364
I disagree, allow me to change your mind with an internet argument
>>78089354
>>78089097
I like you.
>>78087870
No.
The best stories are definitely him against regular, unpowered people, but the juxtaposition of a mass murdering psychopath in a world full of superheroes is also cool.
>>78089642
Frank looks very much like clint eastwood.
Frank has some surprising staying power. I don't think even Jon Sable could make it today.
>>78088158
>You also realize Punisher began as a Spider-Man character, right?
Not just a regular character either. He was a villain.
Maybe that's why he clashes with goody-two shoes like Captain America and Spider-Man. Maybe, just maybe, he's got-----DIFFERENT MOTIVATIONS. I know. Shocking right.
>>78088773
>Cap
>not liberal since always
read the fucking books you pleb
I have an easier time believing punisher shares the same universe as the avengers than spider-man.
Punisher is a low level crinmal that for the most part should be handled by the cops.
Spidy and others like him on the other hand are taking on major, city wide theats in the HQ of the avengers and FF. Yet they hardly ever help.
I heard it took about three years or so, before The Punisher got the name Frank Castle.
>>78089826
I vaguely remember the Mack Bolan comic, I think it just adapted the Pendleton books.
And none of them would make it today. The One Man War Against The Mafia is such a relic of its time that unless you go stylized and weird like John Wick it doesn't sell at all today. I love all that stuff but it's an absolute product of its time, there's a reason action movies and books have shifted to more espionage-focused material.
Who gives a shit about the Mafia these days? It's not the 80's any more, Muslim terrorists, governmental abuses of power and mega-corporations are the modern-day concerns now.
>>78089965
>>78089975
Yeah, there were three. I can only find the adaptation of "War Against The Mafia."
This should shred all doubt that Frank comes from the school of Tough Guys, see how he treats a hysterical dame.
>>78089930
>american
>using the word liberal
Fuck off nigger, Steve was always PROGRESSIST, after 911 they went with a pretty statist and pro-military take on the character that happens to have modern progressive views on matters of race and sex. The whole point of saying "liberal" instead of liberal was to not confuse idiots like you. From the 70's up until the end of volume 4 steve was far from a guverment pawn. Now he is back to be just a propaganda tool that happens to like gays.
>>78089975
Man did Bolan have a shitty origin story. Dad shoots up family, and he decided to go after the mob, no thought whatsoever about dad having mental issues. I get that they whored out his daughter but come on.
>>78087870
I think the Marvel universe needs killers that don't try to take the moral highground. People like Punisher and Wolverine that balance out the no-kill capes
>>78089936
to be fair, most of Spidey's foes are great at working from the shadows, and the rest fall victim to Spidey having the fastest response time of anyone in the city
When is Punisher getting a new run? I heard its coming.
>>78090803
I think in February. The team is Becky Cloonan and Steve Dillon right?
>>78090831
Yeah, that disappointing combo sounds familiar.
Not like I won't read it anyway.
>>78090831
>Steve Dillon
Seriously? No one realized he Franked the frank too much at THIS point?
>>78090907
All his work is the same. If he made it past his first month, he'll likely work until hes dead.
>>78087870
>only exist in grounded reality?
Well that's kind of MAX.
It really depends on what you call "grounded reality".
>>78089642
>cap 462
>first ever CapXFrank
I need to read that some time.
>>78089965
I think his real name was revealed in Circle of Blood, which came out almost ten years after his first appearance.
>>78087870
There's nothing realistic about the Punisher
>>78088251
>You mean the guy that was ok with nagasaki and hiroshima
Anyone with sense is OK with Hiroshima. Nagasaki may have been over kill
>>78089065
>>78089324
>>78091182
>>78087870
Hasn't Punisher had multiple mech suits or some shit?
>>78089019
Not counting members of his own Rogues Gallery and the resurrected Scourge victims, Frank's most notable kills (that I'm aware of) are:
Stilt-Man
Persuader
Goldbug
Jester II
Vulture IV
Power Broker
Shadow Knight
Black Talon II (later resurrected)
Jack O Lantern II (later resurrected)
>>78091856
I mean, he's literally killed the Marvel Universe.
>>78091788
Two, both of which got trashed. He also once hijacked one of Tony's armors.
>>78090831
>Steve Dillon
God, I hope they at least have someone else ink for him, like they did for Welcome Back, Frank and a few of the other Marvel Knights stories.
>>78091938
The good old days when you could sell a blank book with Punisher on the front and still make the top 3 each month.
>>78091938
Why does that armor looks so... "space marine-like"?
>>78092009
I think it may be a straight up reference. I don't know when this cover was made.
>>78087902
Careful with that edge.
>>78092210
Post the hatepack one.
>>78092210
>>78092210
>>78092298
I hope Jake (and Outlaw) survive Contest of Champions.
>>78092295
>>78092384
they turne bullseye into a transgender??? fuck you marvel!!!
>>78091711
nah, Japs were going "I BET YOU ONLY HAD THAT ONE, GAIJIN" the days after. They may have been able to convince the population it wouldn't happen again, but the second one really lit a fire under their asses. That, and the emperor's lackeys were planning to assassinate him if he surrendered, so canned sunshine was required.
besides, soviets in manchuria and stuff. They had to be shown the blinding light of democracy.
>>78089154
It also make things clunky and contradictory or do I have to remind how when Thor popped up he was beloved by all, yet the mutants were and still are "hated and feared" for their powers.
>>78092085
>liking Punisher
>calling someone else edgy
>>78094258
Ain't nothing contradictory about that anon. Mutants are unaccountable while Thor is a friend to humanity and protector of midgard.
>>78093560
>>78091711
It was a power play on RUSSIA, Japan was ready to surrender, the russians declared war on them. Americans need to learn fucking history.
>>78091711
Hiroshima could have been avoided with 84 more hours of diplomacy
>>78095591
>implying anything is accounted for
DOOMBOT DETECTED> KIKLL KILL.
>>78087902
Shut up Whedon.
>>78092058
If that is cover made by Liefeld I don't think it was a reference but straight up ripping off. Wouldn't be the first time for the dude to do it.
>>78089884
>Not just a regular character either. He was a villain.
Because of The Jackal.
At the end he helps Spider-Man, hell he even helps him several times.
>>78095611
The US asked for inconditional surrender, the japs declined that and wanted an equitative truce. They were not going to surrender, and the Russians were not going to stop.
You fucking pinko.
>>78100192
Didn't the Japs went to war actually knowing they would lose, and were expecting to strike a truce so they could keep some of the land they conquered?
>>78092210
Makes me laugh every time
>>78095481
>its impossible to enjoy intentionally campy comics without being an edgelord.
>>78092518
Ennis likes this location a lot.
>>78088395
to be fair, certain things, like the fucking president being kidnapped, should have incited the appearance of, say, captain america. with the dark elves attack, at least, it made sense--the attack in england was sudden, and by the time SHIELD would have been able to mobilize, it was over.
cap didn't call on the avengers for help because he didn't know who to trust, he was on the run, and again, didn't have a whole lot of time to strategize and mobilize.
>>78100192
>inconditional surrender
>fair
After the rape of Prussia that was retarded. If you believe Russia didnt play a role you are a retard. The japs were scared of going to war with the russians, you american idiots learn shit about history
>>78100371
Nope
He's best when there are no supers involved.
Any encounter between the Punisher and a super should end with the Punisher getting his ass handed to him and/or just barely getting away. The exception is supers he is prepared to kill and that would normally need to worry about armed opponents.
>>78102599
I remember there was an issue in which Frank is fighting some drug dealers/smugglers/generic bad guys, and then FUCKING THOR COMES TO TAKE FRANK IN, all that Frank can do is run from Thor while leading him to the bad guys bases (which get wrecked), until Thor catches up with Frank and knocks him out.They then proceed to share a beer and talk.
>>78102547
>trying to insert yourself into someone else's history
Stop
Punisher works with Daredevil type hero really well.
It gets ridiculous with Thor,Spiderman and others.
>>78103013
Spidey is too pure to Frank bad guys who need Franking.
>>78087902
Fuck you Whedon. Go learn how to write
>>78092518
Would Frank attempt to kill Giap once again if he finds out that he's still alive?
>>78103013
Frank works well with Spidey, especially given their history. They're polar opposites, and in some interpretations, Frank would root for Spider-Man, he certainly knows that Spidey is a better man than he.
>>78102795
Share a beer and talk that was Rucka's run. When Avengers took on Frank.
>>78090803
I think there is an Ennis/Parlov run on Vietnam.
>>78102599
His cameo in Superior Foes of Spider-Man was quite hilarious. I liked the idea that Marvel's D-listing supervillains see him as a boogeyman and try to avoid bringing his attention as much as possible.
>>78103013
>It gets ridiculous with Spiderman
Punisher started as a Spider-Man villain, in a period where vigilante movies like Taxi Driver and Death Wish were common trends. So I don't find it ridiculous whenever they meet each other.
