The Russos confirmed the movie doesn't take sides and presents both Rogers' and Stark's viewpoints as equally reasonable.
So, who do you guys think the average audience will most likely side with?
Probably Cap. No one likes to see rules and regulations being forced on their heroes.
Captain America. Because of muh Bucky and muh freedoms.
>Tony Stark
>sold weapons to terrorists
>hid arsenal of massively destructive robot suits from the government
>incited multiple acts of terrorism on US soil by mocking terrorist on tv
>let robot arsenal go out of control in public on several occasions
>created evil AI that tried to destroy the earth
>defied government for years
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Steve Rogers
>ww2 veteran
>America hero
>his name in the title
>has saved earth several times
>only "crime" is not wanting people to be on a list
>mfw people genuinely pick Tony just because RDJ
Government shills will go with Tony, freedom lovers will go with Cap.
>>77749923
Americans will side with Cap because muh small government.
>>77749976
>Ad hominem
>>77749923
Gonna go with Batman on this one.
>>77749923
Cap for the viewers, Tony for the thinkers.
Didn't the comics do this, but make it utterly fucking retarded?
>>77750043
Who?
>>77750050
Simply euphoric, my brethern.
>>77750034
>stating relevant facts to an argument
>"MUH AD HOMINEM"
>>77750050
Just because it's bait doesn't mean you're not stupid for writing it.
>>77750075
Those aren't relevant to the argument. You're comparing the people, not their positions. It's literally ad hominem.
Alot of people are going with Tony cause he's hot. Which I fiND ridiculous I mean if Hitler was hot would they side with him. There choosing the face not the cause which will ultimately lead to there demise
>>77750063
Not like that. I mean, when I'm watching a movie, I'm not thinking. I'm along for the ride, enjoying myself.
It's only after the movie, when I go sit down and reflect on it, I start to think. Consider things from different perspectives. And very likely change my view on aspects of the movie.
And that's what I mean. While watching the movie, I expect my heart goes out to Cap. But afterwards, after thinking about it, I'll expect to side with Stark.
>>77749923
And people said Tony was a true libertarian hero. Guess Civil War will be his fall from grace then. Does that mean he'll be voting Democrat next?
As opposed to making Tony look like he was Iron Hitler?
SORRY BUT YOU WHEN YOU PUT DAREDEVIL IN SUPER DIMENSION PRISON, Y'DONE WENT OVERBOARD!
Yeah I know that wasn't actually Daredevil... Or it was but... God dammit I hated Civil War so fucking much.
>>77750061
I'm talking about this guy.
Who will Fox News side with?
>>77750060
Kinda hard to agree with Tony when you see Carol beating up Arachne in front of her daughter.
>>77750110
>>77750116
>>77750109
>One side is pro-government
>One side is anti-government
Unless they win the next election, it's pretty obvious they'll be team Cap. Or hate both because they're villifying a rich guy.
>>77750125
>movies is called CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR
Gee, I wonder.
>>77750141
Who made you, Cap?
They'll side with Tony. People might talk up Freedom, how much they love it but in the end they are cowardly and fearful, they'll run into the arms of the authority stroking their fears every time. Especially Americans.
>>77750050
*tips fedora*
>>77750093
>Tony
>hotter than Cap
Are you blind my nigga?
>>77750098
>>77750164
Americans are probably the most anti-authoritarian developed country.
>>77750189
Where was Matt during Civil War?
>>77750141
Which was supposed to be a parallel of this page.
>>77749976
>sold weapons to terrorists
No, he didn't.
>>77750194
>Americans are probably the most anti-authoritarian developed country.
I'd say it's the most polarized.
it's not strictly anti-authoritarian.
>the government passes an act that says superheroes will only work jobs given by them from now on
What could possibly go wrong?
>>77750199
Which team was in LA? Runaways?
The thing about Civil War that makes it so interesting, and also so difficult to do well, is that both sides really can both be seen as the right way. Everyone should be held accountable, even superheroes, but also there needs to be people who can go beyond the law to do what's right.
>>77750206
In the MCU, his company did.
>>77750229
But he didn't know about it.
>>77750164
Why would they side with Tony if they like to talk up freedom? Are you implying that you can do anything other than talk about fictional characters fighting over fictional issues?
>>77750198
Prison
What are some superhero teams that work/worked for the government?
>>77750113
Always wondered how Carol was forgiven for that. It's okay to forever ostracize Pym for one thing he apologized a million times but Carol beating mothers and taking childs away can be forgiven and forgotten?
>>77750229
And the person who was actually responsible was the first villain of the entire MCU
>>77750221
Everything I've read about it indicates the Russos pulled off validating both of their stances and encouring the viewer to consider whom they feel is right.
I think that's what is going to set it apart from BATMAN V SUPERMAN, in which we understand where Batman is coming from in regards to Superman, but the movie still presents him as a misguided and in the wrong.
>>77750189
God, that's so poorly written. I mean, it's stupid in the first place, forcing in that Judas reference. But then Millar was so unsure if people would get his reference that he had to end the page by actually explaining his joke.
>>77750261
So we already did this in Winter Soldier kinda... But will they do it again?
>>77750257
>The New Avengers
>The Secret Warriors
>The Justice League America
>The Suicide Squad
>The Ultimates
Those are the first that spring to mind.
>>77750258
Nobody talks about it.
Unlike Pym's slap, where every villain and aspiring hero knows about it.
>>77750221
>is that both sides really can both be seen as the right way.
Sort of. If you look at all the tie-ins and all the justifications made after the fact, it looks that way. If you just read the Civil War miniseries Tony Stark employs Supervillians to capture heroes and place them in a prison outside of our reality, because Mark Millar doesn't have the skill necessary to tell this kind of story.
>>77750266
chronologically Red Skull and Hydra are the first MCU villains
and Agent Carter will show this year that the Maggia has also been around forever
>>77750281
Stormwatch too if I remember right.
>>77750273
Seems like in the movie the moment will be Cap going full Raid on some SWAT troopers cracking down on Bucky in Germany.
>>77750281
No love for X-Factor?
>>77750281
>New Avengers
The new lineup? Haven't read it, but I know none of the other versions worked for the government.
>Secret Warriors
Not at all. They worked for Nick Fury. Even if you make the argument that they worked for SHIELD, SHIELD wasn't a part of the government at the time.
>>77750281
And The MCU Avengers, originally.
>>77749923
Tony
Okay so THIS is the one thing I actually want translated from the books.
Whatever Avenger Team that goes in to counter Spidey for whatever reason gets almost steamrolled by him.
>>77750285
But Millar said that up until issue 5 or something, Tony Stark was supposed to be the right one.
>>77750286
No one is talking about chronology, you dolt.
>yfw this happens
>>77750199
Well now that's reaching a lot. That's not being a futurist that's flat-out future sighting. Whoever wrote that (and I'm guessing it's Bendis) couldn't even bothered to be subtle about it.
>>77750217
New Warriors.
>>77750300
The post Civil War team with Iron Man, Wasp, Sentry, Wonder Woman, Mrs. Marvel and some others. Or where they called the Mighty Avengers?
>>77750206
>implying the West doesn't sell millions of guns to Eastern terrorists erryday
>>77750309
Well, we know there'll be a reportedly "standout" fight between Captain America and Spider-Man.
>>77750106
Now THIS is a dance off; learn how to do it, Star-Tard.
>>77750319
Yep, Mighty Avengers.
>>77750050
>thinkers
People who don't waste their time with capes, fuck yeah.
>>77750325
We don't. We just give them away. Gotta justify that military presence somehow.
>>77750206
When you see it...
This begs the question...will Tony rebuild SHIELD with him as Director at the end of Civil War?
>>77750194
>Americans are probably the most anti-authoritarian developed country.
Americans fellate the cock of authority like mindless birds.
Most are guilty of not knowing what they want other than guns and the bible.
>>77750362
No, because there is already a SHIELD, with agents and a seemingly-immortal baldheaded leader missing a very impostant part of his anatomy and everything.
>>77750388
>words words words
Anyone have opinions on Secret Wars: Civil War? As opposed to the original? Haven't read it yet and was curious if it was even worth it.
>>77750377
That's a hot opinion. Take some time to reflect on who gave it to you and made you feel the need to parrot it on an anonymous image board.
Or just get buttflustered or something, it's whatever
>>77749962
Would be true if it wasn't for ISIS
>>77750378
Oh...i should probably keep NOT watching AoS then.
>>77750388
>Spider-Man, how dare you stop villains and then worry about how they plan on killing your friends and family
>>77750358
>Stark Inc.
It's industries. That's just some Korean knockoff.
>>77750388
Based Tony
>>77750408
It's shit. Everyone behaves like a retard in it; some tie-ins are interesting but it's one of the worst Marvel events ever.
>>77750425
Yes, that's what Tony told us when we made the buy. But we sincerely doubt it because we managed to kill many joes with that tech...
>>77750408
Give it a big pass.
>>77750317
Yup, Bendis.
>>77750378
Nobody gives a shit about AoS.
>>77749923
Take away the mustache twirling villain side of Tony in Civil War? Makes cap look like a dumbass throwing a tantrum
>>77750425
>COBRA
>not buying American
>>77749923
Depends on where.
USA and Australia will follow Cap, on average.
Asia and Europe will follow Tony on average.
>>77750336
Nothing beats the Batusi.
Hell, you don't even need prep when you have the Batusi.
>>77750199
>Someone like our friend Spider-Man
>Someone they can unmask on TV
>Destroy his marriage and family
>Pin a crime or two on
Gee Tony, if only you could remember saying this before you did LITERALLY ALL THOSE THINGS.
The Sokovia Accords doc from the Phase 2 boxset.
>>77750243
If Tony legit didn't know about his weapons ending up in the hands of terrorists, he is one fucking dumbass arms dealer.
Never mind that he's putting weapons in the US armies hands, who themselves have a bunch of issues.
>>77750409
>Take some time to reflect on who gave it to you and made you feel the need to parrot it on an anonymous image board.
I am a reasonable person, and I know most Americans are ignorant of their political process and what their civil rights mean.
>Or just get buttflustered or something, it's whatever
I'll have you know my butt is a well lubricated fuck machine. It never gets flustered.
>>77750520
>>77750520
It was supposed to come off as an Oedipal action. Have Peter do it voluntarily as a show of solidarity to the cause and countermand fallout.
WHICH FAILED SPECTACULARLY, and required the third/fourth stupidest Spider-Man storyline ever written to only partially correct.
>>77750199
>I'm a futurist
>Me and Reed can intuit the future
Fat lot of good that did you when it came to sending Hulk off planet
>>77750522
>Vision
Made me kek.
>>77750565
Well, it is his name.
>>77750522
Thor's a representative of an alien government... So he doesn't have to sign.
Hulk's... probably not considered an Avenger no more so... Yeah.
Now I'm all for there being a command structure to make everyone feel better about incredibly powerful and skilled people on the frontlines between humanity and the horrors of the world.
But maybe don't put General "I WANT THE HULK DEAD" Ross in charge?
>>77750561
Or figuring out how to stop those incursions.
I'm actually cautiously optimistic about this. James Gunn has been saying that so far, most of the studio is praising the movie, which doesn't tend to happen in the early stages.
He also never showed any enthusiasm for Ultron but did show for Ant-Man, and you could tell when asked he never complimented Ultron. Also from the footage, the action and characters and even the score seem to have weight and personality: the kicks connect and feedback, the characters have reactions instead of mindless quips, and the tune is pretty melancholic.
The Russos have also never disappointed me in Cap2, Agent Carter, Community or Arrested Development, their episodes were always the best ones.
>>77750585
>most of the studio is praising the movie
That's what they pay them for...
>>77750547
>Oedipal action
You saying Spider-Man wants to fuck his mother?Is Trouble now canon?
>>77750585
>>77750585
>>77750585
>>77750585
>>77750585
HOLD ON
THE RUSSOS MADE AD EPISODES??
>>77750576
>But maybe don't put General "I WANT THE HULK DEAD" Ross in charge?
As a duly elected official, having been confirmed into that position, it's the will of the people to put him there.
>>77750606
Both: "Pilot"
Anthony only: "Top Banana", "Key Decisions", "The Immaculate Election", "Spring Breakout"
Joe only: "Bringing Up Buster", "In God We Trust", "Pier Pressure", "Marta Complex", "Shock and Aww", "Missing Kitty", "Hand to God", "Motherboy XXX", "Meet the Veals"
>>77750606
Dude, they did the fucking pilot.
>>77750522
>Vision
Would he even have a written signature? Probably a picture perfect of his face, drawn in the similar technique that Sonny had in IRobot.
Natah Romanoff
Wanda Maximoff
But Russian female names should be Romanova and Maximova, respectively, they would only be called "-off" in informal english conversation if tired of correcting people.
Also, why is Clint there, but not Banner? I thought he retired completely.
Going off of my casualfag friend and his friends, people will side with Tony. The 'So was I' line seems to have sealed it for them, even though Tony was just constantly shitting on Cap, while Bucky is literally Cap's oldest and best friend, whom he's just got back.
>>77750604
Oedipus fucked his mother and killed his father as a result of taking steps to prevent that exact outcome. that's what I meant.
>>77750623
Vic Sionis. Yay or nay?
>>77750377
If you knew the first thing about American politics, you would know that most of the gun and bible people aren't the same ones fellating authority.
>>77750606
They made the pilots for both AD and Community, and helped establish the comedy "rules" for both shows, as well as the recurring jokes for the first seasons, AFAIK
>>77750616
>Motherboy XXX
L-lewd...
>>77750630
Ah of course, my mistake. Still that was stupid as fuck. 'I've just said this is how things will go down...so to prevent it I'll do these exact things myself!'
>>77750633
Victor S. Ion
>>77750641
It's actually not terribly far from what you're thinking, if you've never watched the show.
>>77750639
I find it pretty funny how they're comedy directors, but they're actually doing the most serious movies in the MCU so far.
I'd be curious to see how they'd handle a more comedic MCU movie.
>>77750639
>>77750616
>>77750622
I didn't know that! I was afraid you'd say they did Season 4 episodes.
These guys are literal gold.
>>77750653
>a more comedic MCU movie
With every single goddamn complaint I see about Age of Ultron, I don't think you want to even mention that.
>>77750641
It's just a band
>>77750663
It's OK, I'm bi.
>>77750630
Nonono, LAIUS, his father, received the prophecy, and took steps to prevent it, thus ensuring its occurrence. Only late in life did Oedipus hear of the prophecy, by which time it was already far too late.
So, it's not an Oedipal action, but a Laial one.
>>77749976
>talk bad about terrorist on TV
>responsible for said terrorists attacks
I guess Bush and Obama are responsible for everything Al Qaeda and ISIS has done after 9/11 then?
>>77750672
Well, Bush certainly contributed to it.
>>77750655
Season 4 was pretty cool, though. You just have to think about it like a 13-hour episode for it to hit.
Most people like it once they reach episode 7 or 8, but if you watch it out of order, it still mostly works. It's a very good piece of writing on constraints.
>>77750662
Not saying they should make the Cap movies comedies since that would be shit, but maybe a property like Ant-Man in the future.
That's out of the question till after 2019 though, since they have to do Infinity War now. Assuming they'll be still working with Marvel after.
>>77750060
In theory both their ideologies were solid, but they made Tony go so overboard, while Cap didn't really do anything bad that it was impossible to side with Tony.
>>77750623
Banner is missing, supposedly KIA
>>77750670
Oedipus heard about the prophecy and ran away from his home in order to prevent it from becoming reality.
It's still an Oedpial action.
>>77750691
Hmm, makes sense, I guess, but if Barton's farm is off the radar, shouldn't he be considered missing, or something?
>>77750479
Brit here, and I'm somewhere between. Mandatory service or prison, just for having powers, is some Nazi level crap right there. That said, a voluntary 'Super Hero' police force helmed by trusted and reliable commanders, like Cap himself, that would police the super heroes makes sense. Or something like internal affairs for super heroes.
How it played out in the event was just stupid, and Cap was in the right almost all the way.
It's a fine line between governance and police state, but I can see the issues Tony raises, and others aside.
Imagine if we had civilian militias today, in none-US locations? If we in the UK started forming little militias, in the style of the Minutemen, our Goverment would have the counter terrorism forces out in force, even if their express goals were to defend against terrorists themselves.
Super heroes being common, like in Marvel? Wow, that would be a mess.
Then again, our government is somewhat elitist-despotic. We have knife drives, to 'protest knife crime' and 'make our streets safer'. When in reality we just voluntarily disarm ourselves of the most basic of rights, self defense, while the actual criminals have a good laugh. The aim is to make us helpless, so we rely on them, and make our choices in fear. Yet, they are even pretty bad at that, because despite knife crime, and even gun crime, you can still buy a high-powered crossbow without documentation. Ugh.
I suppose my point is regulation does make sense, but unfortunately the people generally in charge are either corrupt themselves or unqualified.
>>77750670
Yeah, but later Oedipus went to get his future told, and the oracle refused, because he was going to be a fatherkilling motherfucker.
>>77750672
>dare someone to try punching you in the face
>boast about how you'll dodge that shit and wreck them
>complain when you get punched in the face
>>77750702
He's still alive, so he HAS to register.
>>77749923
American audiences: FREEEDOOOOOM!
Worldwide audiences: Reason and sanity.
>>77749923
Whenever you have to take sides in something Marvel, the one with Cap is always the "right" one anon.
>>77750729
Most things in life are people would justify with a deontological appeal to freedom, freedom of speech, of thought, of association. There is nothing inherantly wrong about using freedom as a moral standard.
>>77750623
I'm pretty sure that the canon explanation is that her birth name is "Natalia Romanova", while "Natasha Romanoff" is the Americanized name she adopted when she moved to the States.
>>77750522
Why does it say Anthony, but not Clinton, Steven, or Samuel?
Also:
>Vision
Made me laugh.
Depends on how they frame the issue, I'm worried that they are going to make the choice between direct government control or total unaccountability. If thats the case then obviously Tony is going to seem to be making the more logical argument. However thats a false choice.
Also I don't see any reason why direct government control of superheros would reduce collateral. Government doesn't have some special insight that would allow them to use the avengers power more effciently than the avengers themselves. I also don't see it as unreasonable that people in the government would have approved of dangerous shit like the Ultron project.
>>77749923
Cap, his name's in the title. It's his movie
>>77750704
>Mandatory service or prison, just for having powers, is some Nazi level crap right there.
That's not what the Civil War in the movie will be about. See:
>>77750522
It's just the Avengers, and powers are irrelevant; it's about being a private army.
>>77750691
Not KIA but MIA
>>77749923
>The Russos confirmed the movie doesn't take sides and presents both Rogers' and Stark's viewpoints as equally reasonable.
>Stark creates Ultron and causes everything in AoU to happen
>World gets pissed off at the Avengers and all the other superheroes in the MCU because of what Stark did
>Sokovia Accords are created as the result of what Stark did.
>equally reasonable.
>>77750095
Well, the problem will be that the Marvel government hangs knee-deep in SHIELD,ssupports the Avengers and so on and so forth. They created the current situation by allowing vigilantism on a large scale. So shutting down this national institution will cause problems. And any move trying to conscript people by force is a bad one. What would be the right way would be a soft pressure with arreasonable affiliation system deputizing the heroes in question and effectively making them accountable but not into employees or servants. I think gene-coded access to a support system and published high scores/legal responsibility would be great.
So you get a body cam, a com line to an agency assistant with operational support data and info on who is around. The only thing they have is a genetic sample and the power to announce you rogue if you do bad things. They would be more closely supervised than cops but could remain anonymous to the authorities.
>>77751155
One guy always fucks it up for the rest. Also, I'm sure that at least Tony can help to pay for the damages. It's not really fair, but not completely unrealistic.
>>77750347
>We don't. We just give them away. Gotta justify that military presence somehow.
Yeah. We give them away to terrorists.
We *sell* them to the oppressive governments the terrorists fight, as well to the gangs and drug traffickers in Mexico, Central and South America.
>>77751148
We was in a pretty ugly plane crash, I think that's pretty KIA.
>>77750704
The issue (well, one of them) with comic Civil War was that it seems like the choice was only between no law and all the laws. It's retarded.
>>77751169
>It's not really fair
That's the point though. Both points can't be equally reasonable when everybody knows that the basic premise of this movie is all because of what Tony Stark did in AoU and Tony is coming in and giving Cap shit,
>>77750141
Bottlenose Dolphins and Chimpanzees also wage war. Dolphins usually rape their enemies. Chimpanzees will generally spare females and young, but will kill and eat the males until there are none left in the other group- THEN move in and rape the females and kill/eat the young.
>>77749923
My money's on Tony for the average movie goer. They're not even going to care so much about the viewpoints, they just want to see their boy shut Cap up.
>>77750672
Bush is certainly responsible for waging war on a country that had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks.
>>77751246
>Tony = corporate power
>Steve = government power
>>77750185
Not him but Tony's popular. He might not be hotter, but in the public eyes he's considered the "face" of the MCU. I was watching AoU and heard some dudes talking about how Cap "needed to shut up" while the sabbatical scene was playing.
>>77751268
But the arguement in Civil War is the opposite.
>>77751274
>Tony = government power
Now that's being out of character. BRAVO MILLAR
>>77749923
I don't think the trailer presented both sides equally, I didn't like the excessively sympathetic potrayal of Tony compared to Cap. I mean Cap must also be in at least as shitty a situation as Tony is.
>>77751279
Every single movie he's been in has been about being less individualistic.
The entire plot of AoU was caused because he's gotten paranoid and authoritarian.
>>77749923
A decent amount will side with Iron Man because RDJ, a decent amount will side with Cap because "'Murica!" and they attribute working with the government like Stark is to working with Obama.
The rest of the sheeple will side with whoever they are attracted to more.
The people with brains will analyze the movie and decide based upon the things the movie does compared with things they believe in and have experienced in real life. They will pick up on different small parts of the plot and the way people act.
This is all if the movie does manage to show both sides in a rational light.
>>77751295
>The people with brains will analyze the movie and decide that's it's crap
Fixed.
>>77751168
And if there's no accountability to the power that deputized them, is affiliated with them, and gives them all their support, then who are they accountable to? What is the aim of this agency project? To just hand out a bunch of support and see what happens?
And none of this is going to matter when a handful of them fuck up. You think that, "We just deputized and supported the murderer. We didn't order him to kill because we have no code of conduct and any bad things our agents do is everyone else's problem." is going to be a good defense?
>>77750388
>>77751337
Why can't they be accountable normally to the law. Like if they fuck up and break the law, have an investigation, have a trial and decide the appropriate punishment.
>>77750713
>>77751335
like batman vs superman will be any better
>>77749923
Americans will back cap, europeans will back iron man.
>>77751367
>le ebin company warz
Xenos pls
>>77751382
>Europeans don't like domestic terrorism
You don't say?
>>77750199
I don't know what they were trying to do in this page, but I can't help but notice that Tony is actually the villain in most of his own predictions. This casts all of his actions in an even more sinister light. He didn't ask for Peter to unmask to help his side, he did it because he KNEW that it would cause Peter pain and suffering and maybe he was doing that to try to guilt the other side?
This turns him from a well meaning person into someone that literally set his friend up to fail and potentially die to gain a martyr on his side...
>>77749923
>The Russos confirmed the movie doesn't take sides and presents both Rogers' and Stark's viewpoints as equally reasonable.
I find that extremely hard to believe considering the movie is called CAPTAIN AMERICA Civil War instead of Avengers Civil War, or just plain Civil War.
>>77750414
We already have a 2nd amendment for them
>>77750261
Oh no, the suppressors broke off. The guns are unusable now because the sound level would exceed city regulations.
>>77750425
I would love that if this was in the movie, subplot is Pepper finding out that a huge chunk of the 'evidence' the pro-regs are using is actually based on Korean knock-offs of Stark tech and etc.
>>77751207
No one in their sane mind ever thinks the Hulk could be killed. It's safer to assume the government, avengers and particularly, Ross, all think Hulk to be MIA, as he usually is.
>>77751445
>Tony did nothing wrong
Too retarded, even for CW standards.
>>77750372
What's this from? Is this Anime?
>>77750531
That was an entire sub-plot of the first Iron Man movie... His best friend and practically adopted father was actually selling weapons behind his back.
>>77750585
Who cares about what Gunn thinks. He suddenly is a capes movie expert for doing an extremely safe movie that rided almost completely on retard memes?
>>77751286
The trailer kinda' favored Stark, but the movie won't.
Someone post that page where Cap talks about the river of truth and shit. I'm too lazy
>>77751440
Captain America being the pivotal character doesn't mean he's right.
>>77751540
>Never admit you are wrong, ever, for any reason
>>77751502
Hi, /tv/.
>>77751351
>Why can't they be accountable normally to the law. Like if they fuck up and break the law, have an investigation, have a trial and decide the appropriate punishment.
Imagine if a city's SWAT had absolutely no in-house documentation, investigation, punishment while carrying out its own operations as it saw fit- and relied entirely on the outside intervention other law enforcement agencies to ensure its agents were acting appropriately.
Imagine if the restaurant you went to had no expectations of its employees, and relied entirely on the OSHA, the health inspector, and other agencies to make sure they did a good job.
Imagine losing a loved one because the third pilot in a row crashed a plane drunk, only to be told by the airline that hired the pilot that they have absolutely no rules/punishment/accountability for pilots flying drunk. It's up to pilot themselves, passengers, and law enforcement to ensure they don't do so. You and the relatives of those who died can all sue the pilot if you want, but the airline company has nothing to do with what happened.
Can you see the kinds of issues that raises? This is why most agencies have internal monitoring, required documentation, codes of conduct, and a system of consequences for those who violate the rules that people employed by them are subject to. They know they're going to get blamed, and they want to go through efforts to prevent shit from getting that bad- or at the very least- show they made some effort to try and prevent it. And they STILL get shat on.
>>77751572
>Imagine
Or just read Daily Kos.
>>77751444
>Oh no, the suppressors broke off. The guns are unusable now because the sound level would exceed city regulations.
Pretty sure that's not a clean break, and only an idiot would try to fire a weapon with an obstructed barrel like that.
>>77751551
way to misread the page like a retard
>>77751551
He is saying that even if everyone decides something wrong is right then you still should not change your position. Its a simple speech, obviously he isn't going to go into a speech on the nature of knowledge. But the point about having moral conviction, not behaving in an immoral way just because everyone else does, is not a bad point.
>>77750623
Wanda is East European not Russian. Not the same at all.
The governments and Ross probably think Vision is a worthless toaster.
>>77750634
Actually the bible people love banning things they don't like. They are the biggest censorship fags of all.
>>77750283
>every hero having a laundry list of morally questionable actions
>they all get butthurt over what Pym did
Also, HOW CAN HE SLAP?!?
>>77751542
Well he was never the pivotal character in the comics. He was definitely a major part of it but the main book wasn't fucking named after him.
>>77751572
Then require the Avengers to have documentation, and a code of conduct and everything else. I don't see why the Avengers couldn't have all of those things without direct government control. The public and the government could check the code of conduct and have inspections to see if the documentation is up to date. I mean restaurants don't need to be directly controlled for there to be regulation and accoubtability. You can do all these things without registration.
>>77751502
You don't know what a meme is.
>>77751712
The Ultimates were a boring concept.
>>77751755
No they were a good concept they just had a really shitty execution.
>>77751794
>militarized Avengers
I like GIJoe better, frankly.
>>77751712
>Then require the Avengers to have documentation, and a code of conduct and everything else. I don't see why the Avengers couldn't have all of those things without direct government control.
Well sure, they can do that. Then they'd be just another Private Military Contractor service.
Of course they wouldn't likely be able to go out and investigate/apprehend/use lethal force on suspect in the streets for the same reasons Blackwater/Academi and other PMCs can't.
That kind of stuff is pretty much the domain of the US government. That's why if they want to go out and fight crime, including the use of deadly force, they have to be a government agency or part of a government agency.
>>77750269
I didn't get that at all. I didn't link Judas to the 40 pieces of silver because I'm not a Christian. All I knew was that Judas fucked over the J man.
>>77751880
Isn't that just arbitrary? If the avengers aren't challenging the government or blatantly ignoring laws like those against murder, then I don't see any reason for it to be directly government controlled. It just seems like you can have all the benefits of government regulation and accountability without the government assigning missions to the avengers or micro managing avenger protocol(which have obvious downsides).
>>77751995It was God's plan all along.
>>77750634
Of course they fellate authority, don't pull that bullshit on the whole "if you knew the first thing"
>let's belittle black lives matter to never care about the point of their arguement and focus on how cool cops are!
>let's make the authority punish gays, muslims, and stoners!
>let's protect fetuses with authority by forbidding abortion yet taking away food stamps and second chance programs
>let's pay for MORE WAR MORE PRISONS
>>77749923
If they're following the comic plot this is going to end with Cap dead and Tony admitting it wasn't worth it before giving himself brain damage to protect everyone's secret identities. .
Cap.
Tony a shit.
>>77752165
Low self esteem cukc detected.
>>77752280
>cukc
Someone is afraid of being banned again?
>>77752029
>If the avengers aren't challenging the government or blatantly ignoring laws like those against murder, then I don't see any reason for it to be directly government controlled.
For the same reason you and I can't just up and start a company called "The Protectors", where we investigate, raid, arrest, and occasionally use force to subdue who we consider to be criminal suspects.
>>It just seems like you can have all the benefits of government regulation and accountability without the government assigning missions to the avengers or micro managing avenger protocol(which have obvious downsides).
By giving an independent business the ability to carry out law enforcement/military/intelligence duties- up to and including lethal force- as they see fit.
That itself is against the law.
>>77749923
>no Spiderman starting on one side and changing his opinion because Aunt May gets shot
fukkin
DROPPED
R
O
P
P
E
D
>>77750034
>"I will use buzzwords that I do not understand"
>>77749923
captain america, because is a proud white christian.
whilst tony is just short smug bastard
>>77750408
It's a big agenda filled with author self-inserts, the worst being Sally Floyd.
>>77752461
Then again, there are bail enforcement agents aka "bounty hunters". If you skip out on your bail, independent contractors can be hired to track you down, enter your property without a warrant, and take you into custody via force- including lethal force if the situation warrants.
They receive no city/state/federal government support, though.
>>77750388
Never have I seen a single page that lusted more for iron man's cock.
>>77751468
fan art
>>77749923
Storywise, I think most people will prefer Steve's side.
Fandom-wise, RDJ wins before the battle even begins.
>>77752461
I understand your point, but the point of the avengers is that it is an organization meant to face threats the government normally can't. I understand that you can't have a general principle of everyone creating their own security force. But I'm only looking at this very specific case of the avengers and I can't see any benefits of direct government control. And I'm wondering if there can be any exceptions in this case.
I don't see how the govermment can manage the avengers better and I'm worried that the government will expand the avengers from its relatively limited role of preventing special threats, to serving specific political interest. I'm more trusting of the people in the avengers, who risk their lives and who most understand their powers than I am of some politician. I don't know if all this added risk is worth it for the general principle that not anyone can create his own police force.
>>77751551
>Never admit you are wrong, ever, for any reason
> • tips fedora •
Fixed it for ya...
>>77752729
Do you even own a fedora?
>>77752544
It's literally an ad hominem argument.
>>77750309
I miss spectacular spiderman
>>77750522
>not writing vision as Jarvis Stark
>>77751572
>Imagine you're an autistic faggoty mouth breather
Oh wait, you don't have to imagine
>>77752719
>I understand your point, but the point of the avengers is that it is an organization meant to face threats the government normally can't. I understand that you can't have a general principle of everyone creating their own security force. But I'm only looking at this very specific case of the avengers and I can't see any benefits of direct government control. And I'm wondering if there can be any exceptions in this case.
You can't see how being accountable to the institution whose weapons/intelligence/material/resources you use has any benefit to that institution as opposed to having it be autonomous?
Sure, any given person would prefer to do whatever they want without any accountability so long as they don't break the law. That's rarely the way things work when you agree to receive expensive support from someone as you work to pursue their interests.
>>I don't see how the govermment can manage the avengers better and I'm worried that the government will expand the avengers from its relatively limited role of preventing special threats, to serving specific political interest.
Well a city/state/federal government generally has an internal investigations, a series of checks and balances, required documentation, etc that is ultimately answerable to voting population.
And again, the Avengers would be using their resources. They'd likely want to have say in how those resources are used.
Iron Man, because most of the people who watch this shit loves him because "he's so funny and has cool stuff lol xDxD". RDJ is the only reason this shit sells.
>>77750388
>posting Willis
>posting Willis as an argument
>>77752165
I'm too busy making fun of Black Lives Matter to enjoy pure, farm-fresh butthurt to care about any of the politics behind it.
>>77752165
The authority you're talking about tends to stem from religious/moral authority.
They believe that power has the obligation to punish criminals, gays, abortionists, and Muslims. People who violate their religiously informed moral beliefs.
Outside of that, they are staunchly anti-authoritarian. They believe authority should not tell them how many weapons they can own, whether or not they can enforce their ideas of traditional gender roles, or restrict free trade.
But that's just a portion of the US population.
>>77753110
Aren't the avengers self financed with Tony paying for everything? And again, I'm not saying there be no accountability, but that doesn't mean direct government oversight.
If the government in the MCU was able to be infiltrated so utterly by Hydra, which just barely suceeded in its plans, with no one knowing anything for decades. Then I'm skeptical how accountable the governemnt can be if it wants to run the avenegers covertly. The thing is, I trust the people in the avengers to actually be more worried about being accountable to the public and focusing on the actual problems than politicians or General Ross.
I side with whatever side wants regulations
No, I don't care if you saved the world you fucking destroyed my home and now I'm homeless. Are you going to buy me a new house for my family?
that monster probably would have killed us but you've also put us on the path to death
my kids are sleeping under the bridge during the winter. little holly has caught pneumonia
>>77753389
/pol/
>>77750097
Funny, I always saw Stark as more republican and Cap as more democratic.
>>77753397
>/pol/ boogeyman.
What anon said had little to nothing to do with /pol/.
>>77749923
Cap because his name is in the title.
I mean you can blab all you want about how they're equally represented and all that but really, this isn't Iron Man 4, or even Avengers Gaiden, it's Captain America Civil War, and Cap is going to be portrayed as the hero in this.
>So, who do you guys think the average audience will most likely side with?
Jesus, get of your high horse you arrogant nerd. You are the average audience.
>>77751256
Obama has done the same.
tony sticking it to bureaucrats is what made people like him, now that hes of them his appeal is gone
and there is no way he can present any opinion he has from a point of leverage. He is literally taking the side of "everybody should be punished because I personally couldn't handle power"
For me I think it boils down to avoiable property damage. I don't want my supes restrained but for example take the Hulk, master of destruction.
Did you really need to grab that guys car to smash him with or throw? You're the fucking Hulk just use your fist or grab a tree.
It was funny though but jesus Hulk
Tony is driven by guilt.
Captain is driven by the dream.
>>77751362
Germans?
>>77751168
>published high scores
I know it's not what you meant, but that sounds to me like a leaderboard for capes. Gotta get that terrorist kill streak up amirite.
Seriously though, what does that mean?
>>77753290
That doesn't make them anti-authoritarian.
They just think THEIR authority should be the one pushing everyone around.
>>77751551
Cap is all about freedom and personal rights. He is against fascism and totalitarianist regimes/dictatorships.
He's not saying
>do whatever the hell you want and consequences be damned
He's saying that there is exists morality (concepts of right/wrong) and truth. He's basically saying that, just because lots of people do something or that people with authority do something - it doesn't make it right.
If the whole world is doing something wrong/immoral/committing injustice etc. then it is the responsibility of those who believe contrariwise to adhere to their morals and not give in or change. To essentially stand up and fight for what is right/moral/just.
>>77753330
>Aren't the avengers self financed with Tony paying for everything? And again, I'm not saying there be no accountability, but that doesn't mean direct government oversight.
Yeah, the movie pretty much totally ignored the ramifications of a US based privately funded paramilitary organization engaging in unilateral anti-terrorist/government operations around Eastern Europe.
>>If the government in the MCU was able to be infiltrated so utterly by Hydra, which just barely suceeded in its plans, with no one knowing anything for decades. Then I'm skeptical how accountable the governemnt can be if it wants to run the avenegers covertly. The thing is, I trust the people in the avengers to actually be more worried about being accountable to the public and focusing on the actual problems than politicians or General Ross.
HYDRA did infiltrate SHIELD. At the same time, Nick Fury, Black Widow, and Captain America were also Shield Agents and they worked together with other SHIELD agents to take down HYDRA.
In fact, lack of oversight was one of the reasons why the HYDRA problem had gotten so bad, as any organization can be infiltrated.
>>The thing is, I trust the people in the avengers to actually be more worried about being accountable to the public and focusing on the actual problems than politicians or General Ross.
Fairly easy to say because we know on a meta level they'll always do the right thing and save the day in the end because they're the stars of the movie. They'd never allow one of them to do something that actually hurts people.
Whereas the government is shown as being made of as more of a mix of perfect people (usually those allied with the Avengers), regular folks, and villains.
But in universe, people don't have that meta knowledge.
>>77753732
Their "authority" is less about a certain person/place/institution but more a set of ideas. US Christianity is a lot more about every individual's personal relationship with faith, with far less regard for the opinions of actual religious leaders.
>>77752774
Do you know what an ad hominem argument is?
>>77751256
And what was Libya, praytell? Gadaffi was actually pretty mellow in his old age. Obama's the one who had to jump in and support France's ego against their former colony.
To be honest I think they would go with captin America he is more likeable character and I agree with his side it makes the most sence
