is mind manipulation an inherently evil power?
Well it undermines freewill so yes.
I suppose it would depend on how you use it.
He would make an awesome hostage negotiator.
Unethical =/= evil
>>77612006
The Illusion That You Think Free Will Exists Is The Real Evil
>>77612041
Yeah, we all took freshmen philosophy courses.
>>77612041
>Determinism
A world in which determinism exists and doesn't exist is functionally the same
The concept of free will is true in a local space
>>77611999
I didn't knew The Doctor can manipulate minds.
The Jedi do it all the time.
>>77612136
This guy gets it.
Not in itself, but it's so easy to abuse that you'll find yourself on the dark side before long.
If all someone did was telling you to eat a salad instead of an hamburger once in a while there's no problem.
>>77612180
but pretty soon you're telling people to quit smoking and that's an entire industry that you're messing up
Millions of people's livelihoods
>>77611999
but the Force tho
>>77611999
Kind of. Even if you use it for good it's still mind control which is inherently bad so you'd have to be very careful about how you use it.
>>77612351
Jedi are evil
Jedi literally were willing to permit slavery, bigger nations invade and conquer smaller nations and then quickly come to aid of the bigger nation when they get rekt, willingly ignore cries for help, demonized the Sith when it's just about surrendering to emotion and tried to subvert democratic process when it didn't favor them
In Marvel Universe.
I like how Hero Academia handled it
>>77611999
on a broad level there isn't anything wrong with a mentalist power set but having had quite a bit of experience roleplaying in a superhero universe, it's a power set that is incredibly easy to abuse.
Taking direct control of another person through mind control is evil for obvious reasons, but it gets more subtle than that.
When you think about it, the inside of your mind is the most personal and private part of our self that exists. We hold our darkest and most personal things there, we hold our most important secrets there. It's where we carry out our self-editing and our impulse control. Mind READING by its very nature is kind of horrifying, and when it's done in an indiscriminate way it's STRONGLY reminiscent of stripping someone naked and groping them without their consent.
>>77611999
Usually, but not always
The thing is that most regular people would go full comic book villain if they had mind controlling powers, I sure would.
Not necesaraly
>>77612392
>demonized the Sith when it's just about surrendering to emotion
Dude. The Sith were so fucking incontrollably murderous that the only way they could survive was to make a rule that there couldn't be more than two of them, because the instant there were more they just started to stab each other in the face.
"Just about surrendering to emotion" this shit ain't.
>>77612639
I think that MOST people would probably start using it on the shittiest people in the world, but there's that old adage about absolute power to keep in mind, and what power is more absolute than a power we have no defense against and may not even be able to tell is happening?
>>77612599
I personally believe that corruption of free will is a more "evil" act than simply invading ones privacy, even if it is of the highest level
>>77612691
Is it necessarily more scary, though?
Consider the idea of mind reading, being able to take all of someone's secrets, their passwords, memories and knowledge.
Now consider how you would react knowing someone with that ability was out there.
Now consider your reaction to that same info if you were NOT you, but actually you were Batman.
>>77612653
butin heroes reborn he's evil now
>>77612760
what
Not if you only use it on baddies.
>>77612680
>I think that MOST people would probably start using it on the shittiest people in the world
First, bravo for your faith in humanity. I'm being serious. I think that most people would just make their life more convenient and easy. They'll start with good intention of course, but it's a slippery slope.
Secondly, relying on people's ability to identify "shitty people" is not a good idea. Everyone is someone else's piece of shit.
>>77612653
I thought he only read minds.
>>77611999
Humans base their decisions and act and react to the world based on upbringing, education and experience, yet, there's biological factors at play we can only control with invasive or destructive methods like lobotomy or heavy drug usage.
Mind manipulation isn't that far off in the realm of fiction, you just have to consider whether it's ok to make someone stop having panic attacks, pathologies or sucidal tendencies by doping the life out of them.
>>77612852
He's been doing other stuff since the end of season 1/start of season 2.
At first it was some mild illusions like his dad, then mind control, only to end with what he did to Sylar and Nathan.
That's a Charles Xavier level
>>77611999
Yes. Just tricking someone is morally questionable in most cases and the intention of the deception must heavily be considered, but completely removing one's agency to shape someone's "soul" into what you want essentially kills the person and makes what's left of them yours.
>>77612852
He later developed the ability to command people to do what he wanted a la Professor X. Hell, he even mentally forced one man to believe he was another person, and because he was a shapeshifter he literally became someone else, his own mind and will completely suppressed.
To be fair, he was strongly against doing it at the time, but it was a "do it or we all die" kind of scenario, so his hand was forced. Still, that kind of absolute mind control is pretty fucking terrifying in an of itself.
>>77612760
What?
>>77612818
It's less of a faith in humanity and more that I think the average schmo would probably be drawn to change big problems, though I do suppose for some people things like 'president's a NIGGER' would be a 'big problem'
>>77611999
Nah.
You could totally, like, cure the shit out of mental illnesses.
It is real easy to abuse tho.
Dear Charles,
Please get out of my head.
Remember when Jean Grey made Bobby gay? Even purple man didn't stoop that low.
>>77611999
It is an unethical power but not nessisarily an evil one
>>77611999
Double checked em!!
Remember Charles Xavier? Jean Grey? Two of the most evil people ever who altered minds to their control all the time. Hell, poor Bobby was turned gay because of that shit. Yes, Mind Control is an evil power.
>>77613182
He made women have sex with each other for his amusement all the time. Often involving kinky things like a pile of bananas and marshmallow fluff.
>>77613182
>lying
>on a Tibetan crocheting board
>>77612152
Well he did topple a prime minister by whispering a meme into someone's ear
>>77613182
Fucking fujos.
>>77611999
The series showed some good use of it.
It's basically good to use against physical force as legitimate defence or to help someone whose life is threatened.
In less extreme scenario, it could be used to help someone out of procrastination, or out of drinking or drug habits, but only if they agree to.
Nope.
what's your position on, mind taking
>>77612014
>He would make an awesome hostage negotiator.
In Alan Moore's Top 10, the police department's hostage negotiator is The Word, who does exactly that. You can see him on the far right in this tiny, blurry pic. He's got this thing that goes up over his mouth, I'm assuming to dampen his powers. When he uses them, in comic, his speech balloon text goes red and people have to do what he says.
>>77612794
>>77612939
he works for the bad guys in Heroes Reborn
>>77613612
Sounds like the Anti-Life Equation to me.
People are uncomfortable with its efficiency, but it's no more evil then raising a child to share your values.
>>77612680
This
Even if you didn't want to abuse it, a careless remark like telling someone to go fuck off can have disastrous results. You'd have to watch yourself around people carefully or limit your contact with society.
The thing about mnd control is that the temptation is so great that you're bound to misuse it. Not in grandiose schemes or twisted shit, but say you want to avoid the everyday hassles in life? Waiting in line or a table for example. Or not paying for things.
Any type of mental control will inevitably lead to serious ramifications.
>>77613654
>raising a child to share your values
>not evil
/pol/ plz leave
Remember that scene where he crashed into some family's apartment and forced the parents to serve him dinner?
You can easily do that every night of your life. Eat their food, drink their alcohol, sleep in their beds without a care in the world. And if you were a deranged bastard, you could rape anyone to your heart's content.
Having a power like this would make someone into the worst sort of parasite.
Even if you're the best person in the world, there will be a point when you'll think "By making that person do something that I make her sincerely want to do, I'm doing her good because she enjoys it"
Then you're a goner.
>>77613777
Nobody wants to have a child who doesn't share your values.
>>77613880
Can't be worse then a crooked functionary or bailout mooching CEO.
Can we talk about how David Tennant is now the second Doctor to play a Marvel villain?
No. Typical "guns kill people" fallacy at work for anyone who believes "yes."
>>77612006
If your free will is psychotic or sociopath tendencies and I use my mind manipulation to eliminate the part of you wanting to murder everyone around you in the most sadistic way possible, is THAT evil?
How it's used, not that it's used at all.
Yes loot at Xavier and teen Jean
>>77611999
Yes. Depending on the possible extent of manipulation it is one of the most evil there is, as long as we judge effects and consequences of the power itself (discounting side effects that specifically drive the user insane or evil).
>>77612041
Why again we should seriously consider opinion of a person who believes himself to be a midless meatbot, typing meaningless shit because some chemical reactions randomly occured that way?
>>77614166
>If your free will is psychotic or sociopath tendencies and I use my mind manipulation to eliminate the part of you wanting to murder everyone around you in the most sadistic way possible, is THAT evil?
See, the problem with that argument is that you've just killed me and replaced me with another person more to your liking.
And I might have deserved death by being a murderous monsters, of course.
But you don't seem to be realizing that you might have as well blown my brains out. And here's one of the reasons why mind manipulation is an inherently corruptive power - see how easily it made you justify wiping another person from existence?
>>77612515
my nig nog
>>77612659
The Rule of Two exists because the dark side is more powerful flowing through less people.
>>77613427
Now that is a horrifically bad example of "good"
>>77612162
From my point of view the Jedi are evil!
>>77614788
He didn't use the power for anything obviously evil, and the one time he felt he crossed the line, he went back and apologized, and tried to make it right.
Custer is an asshole, but he's the kind of an asshole that doesn't mean to be, and that has nothing to do with his powers and everything to do with his personality. It's a pretty clear example that, no, those powers will not inherently create a villain.
>>77614159
We also have a companion as a Marvel villian, another companion as Rip Hunter, and the son of a Doctor as Alfred. And Missy was sending assassins after Jim Gordon earlier this week.
>>77612136
I've tried to argue that with people too, and they just don't understand.
It can be used to almost instantly halt hostility.
You could just go to an ISIS base or a Prison and force people to be kind to each other. It may be unethical but it prevents needless bloodshed and death.
>>77612041
You capitalising all those letters is the real evil
>>77615044
Maybe he's German.
>>77612639
>>77612599
I'm too awkward aroud people's emotions and secrets. Even when reading news, or even comics and novels I have trouble reading through them, and often just skim through because they might be plot relevant, otherwise I'd skip them entirely.
I'd probably not abuse them because of that. I'd just tell people to leave me alone.
>>77611999
Why didn't they use earplugs?
>>77614159
Who's the first?
We could use it in justice system, but I think this kind of shit would corrupt the system. You put criminal in and you get out a docile drone and I believe making conviction profitable is a terrible idea. No way it would not go off the rail, even with this setup.
If used to curb what's considered to be a crippling psychological abnormality, then no. Such an ability would be constructive if used to, say, treat a schizophrenic person or cause a sociopath to experience empathy where they wouldn't have otherwise.
Not to mention, you could prevent a person from inflicting direct harm onto you, or a bystander. Making a crazed gunman put his gun down would be an ethical use of that power.
For every evil application of a power like this, there's a pretty benevolent one alongside it.
>>77612639
I don't think they would, but I do think it'd screw people up anyway.
If it's Kilgrave's level of power, you'd end up doing terrible things by accident when people use take every metaphor literally.
>>77615009
in the show at least his influence fades with time/distance so that wouldn't work for long. I've not seen him for a long time in comics to remember if thats also the case in there
>>77611999
Just look at Professor X and Jean Grey.
>>77615069
He'd ask someone else to take them out.
>>77615072
Christopher Eccleston, who was thoroughly wasted as Malekith.
this was a bad show and jessica is a failure as a hero. lets look at the facts here
purple guy was not a nice man, this is true
he did some shitty things, also true
but if we go to the underlying reason for it, he went through a traumatic childhood and was never actually raised or parented, so he never learned the social skills everybody else has.
he wasn't evil, he was just highly immature. things like altruism and compassion are learned behaviors and unfortunately he never learned them. His childish "me me me" mindset, the one we all start out with, was never adjusted
lets take it a step further now, he even admitted to his flaws once he heard what it was like from someone elses perspective, was looking for help in jessica, and wanted to tip the scales and make up for the bad things he had done. He just needed someone to show him the way.
we had a "criminal" who wanted to reform and desperately wanted someone to love him without being told to, and he was willing to at least try to put the work in to make that happen.
so what does jessica do? forget about all the people that can be helped, lets go on a revenge trip instead, lets torture a man for information and leave a trail of victims behind us.
bad show, bad characters, do not want another season
>>77615270
the other ones would first have to beat them up superpowers and all. Seriously, in many situations they'd have been able to kill him if they had earplugs.
>>77615344
woah woah woah, bad people =/= bad characters
>>77615622
that's just one of the tv shiposters obsessed by black dicks who's trying to grasp at any straw to attack the show. Don't pay him any mind.
JJ isn't even a hero, she's a PI with a terrile past trying to fix her life.
If you had the ability to read other people's minds, wouldn't you just consider it an extension of your own cognitive abilities? A blacksmith walks into the room and suddenly you're an expert smithy, or a teacher writes up a quiz and you already know the process behind each answer. It'd be kind of invisible after a while, the same way you wouldn't think twice of moving a finger or foot.
>>77614166
I think A Clockwork Orange demonstrated that it's better to let the violent psychopath rape and murder as he pleases than to subvert human free will and force him to be good.
>>77615622
jessica is a bad character because they want you to be on her side. same thing with nuke because they want you to be against him,
he was the only one with any sense for the first half of the season
and jessicas battle cry the entire time was basically "my revenge is worth more than the lives of others"
these aren't the memes you're looking for
>>77615725
if you have no counter argument then maybe you should admit your view point is wrong
>>77612041
Oh do people still go around crowing this
>>77612911
Great, now I have no powers AND an erection.
>>77613612
Top Ten was such a fun book.
I know that word gets thrown around a lot, but it really was fun.
>>77612041
Oh hi, Jaden Smith. How're you planning on embarrassing Daddy today?
>>77613777
Hey David Willis, boy, we sure are getting a lot of jolly characters in this thread!
