>>81696026
I don't read, what's his deal?
>>81698145
the bit in Watchmen is that the world is on the brink of nuclear war but the US's secret weapon is Dr Manhattan, a near-sentient super being who could save a lot of America while letting Russia burn if the bombs dropped. Ozymandias (guy in the pic) convinces Manhattan to leave Earth by convincing him he causes cancer in his loved ones, which causes Russia to make moves. Meanwhile Ozy kidnaps a bunch of scientists and psychics to produce this silly giant squid thing that he drops on New York City, killing a few million people. He did a real nice job on it so no one can tell it was built by men, and it scares the living shit out of everyone, diffusing the escalating global conflict since now everyone is afraid one of those things is going to show up and explode their fucking city.
The big questions at the end of Watchmen is did Ozy do the right thing (killed a few million people to save the entire planet from nuclear annihilation) and how long will this peace last (even if he wanted to he couldn't keep producing those things, the people who built it were the world's best and brightest and he killed all of them after the project was done). We have this thread every week.
>>81696026
"let me kill millions of people based on the small chance the world ends, and on the even smaller chance that people will just stop fighting"
>>81696141
"let me kill the victims of the corporation i'm fighting".
>>81696026
>>81699353
>small chance
>>81699369
The hero we need, but not the one we deserve.
>put a lot of quotation marks around a word to show you really really don't mean it
>>81699396
'a lot of retardeds were saying the world would end, so that means it absolutely would'
even in the real world we've been there, anon. No one is stupid enough to start a nuclear war. If he is smart, he should know that.
>>81699427
What did he mean by this? Serious question.
>>81699529
>absolutely
You keep using these words. No one said absolutely nor does it need to be absolute for Ozy's plans to be arguably justifiable.
>it didn't happen in our world so CHECKMATE
It's a comic, anon. It's not our world. It was happening. In the comic it was implied it was merely implied and in the movie it was stated Nixon would launch a preemptive strike.
>>81699146
>we have this thread every week
...and this arguement was a hot topic at cons and shops long before /co/ was a thing
>>81699529
>No one is stupid enough to start a nuclear war.
Tell that to MacArthur
>>81699598
>nor does it need to be absolute for Ozy's plans to be arguably justifiable
there was nothing pointing out to the nations destroying each other. Actually, if they didn't until that point that means they won't use the bombs at all. People aren't that stupid.
>It's a comic, anon. It's not our world
same situation. Plenty of times people thought 'it almost happened'. But seriously? people aren't that stupid. That's what he couldn't see. He thought he was being smarter than everyone else on the planet. It's simple, the bomb will never be used in a war again because you don't get anything from using it.
>>81699631
Oh no, I absolutely agree, I didn't mean to imply it was a bad thread. On the contrary, I like when we have this thread, sometimes new angles get brought up or someone articulates something in an interesting way.
>>81699766
I don't feel like pulling out the book, but the dramatic convention of the story is that tensions are high and the world is very close to nuclear war. Please stop being an autist and discuss the story on its own terms.
>>81700256
but that's his point. we've been at the brink before. multiple times. Ozymandias could have jumped the gun. But forgetting that, he's wrong because he's the one who pushed them to the brink.
it's like you know two guys hate eachother, so you antagonize both, break ones Security system, then tell the other guy and when it looks like they're about to get into afight, you disguise yourself and nonfatally stab one guy and hope the threat of a slasher distracts them from their hate of one another.
>>81699766
>People aren't that stupid.
Dude, humanity nearly nuked itself at least twice during the Cold War.
>>81702978
Operative word is "nearly", and it's actually quite a few times more than twice. But cooler heads prevailed every single time, because absolutely no one wants a nuclear war.
>It was OK to drop the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki because killing hundreds of thousands saved millions
>It was not OK to drop the squid on NY despite killing millions saved billions
I love Watchmen's little details. It was truly impossible to adapt into a movie. Inb4 snyderfags, go to /tv/ and never come back
>Saved the universe several times with the cabal
>Is the reason the Alpha primitives got freed
>Made a time machine to save the avengers from Kang
>During two times he was king nothing bad happened
If there was a 5% chance to save 100 people without anyone dying, but also a 50% chance of saving 80 with 20 dying, which would you choose?
>>81703340
Difference is that there were direct plans to storm Japan if they wouldn't surrender and that would have been the complete end of the country
>>81703222
>because absolutely no one wants a nuclear war.
Only because of the danger to themselves. If they could wipe out countries they aren't fond of without consequence then they would without hesitation. Ultimately the only thing holding people back from nightmarish acts of cruelty and destruction is the thought "I can't get away with this."
>>81703608
I do not and will never believe that, particularly not since the turn of the 20th century. While there have been notably outliers - Germany, Turkey - for the most part, I do believe and always have believed that the majority of people are fundamentally good, or at least not so fundamentally evil that the wanton slaughter of millions at a time is "okay" to them.
>>81703400
Maybe it's because I haven't reach much Inhuman stuff, but I liked vaguely-heroic Maximus.
He was like if The Fixer didn't have a Zemo to boss him around, and kind of just did whatever he found fun.
>>81703744
>I do believe and always have believed that the majority of people are fundamentally good,
Fair enough, I don't. I believe most people are only as "good" as circumstance allows them to be and the fear of consequence is the only thing forcing us to act civil.
>>81703917
could be fear of the "right" consequence - maybe the consequence some people fear for not intervening is not their pain but others, seeing pain in general as something to avoid rather than just theirs specifically.
>>81703744
>implying that the only reason World War III hasn't broken out wasn't M.A.D.
People, and by extension governments and corporations, are loyal to their own self interests first and foremost. Survival is at the top of said interests. Nuclear weapons are the single greatest thing to ever happen to humanity.
>>81703744
Even without malice, people would attack each others if they perceive a threat. The natural state of man is war of everyone against everyone. Only shared souvereign may sometimes enforce peace.
>generalising
>>81703595
>and that would have been the complete end of the country
And the atom war wouldn't have been the end of a at least one country?
>>81699766
Wasn't there that case of the submarine that did get that close?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov
Seems like we got close enough to warrant a plan B.
>>81703744
If it wasn't for the nukes, WW3 would happened on 1953 during the Korean war when China got into the fight. MacArthur wanted to drop atomic bombs on China but Eisenhower didn't allow it because Russia would strike back with nuclear weapons.
Since the end of WW2, there hasn't been a real wars, only colonialistic invasions from huge armies to third world shitholes
>>81703744
People are inherently good but the elite are full of sociopaths, pretty much the worst of the human race. Besides, the concept of good is very maleable so it's easy for the elite to convince the masses to send their kids to die for allow them to make more money
>>81704332
People are just stupid monkeys fighting for comfort and status.
>>81704332
The elite is the same kind of stupid scared animals as everyone else.
>>81703593
5%. There's always a way
>>81696026
I think you mean Mary Sue whose plan would never work in any conceivable reality.
>>81703593
second option offers better expected value.
>>81704220
if i'm not mistaken, on that case, it "almost happened" because of a problem on the radar, not because of humanity actually wanting to nuke one-another. Not only that, the captain wasn't stupid enough to shoot a nuke even after confirmation of a nuclear attack. This says nothing about humanity somehow losing it's way and deciding to bombing each other, and i doubt his plan on the comics involves 'possible misinformation'.
>>81699146
>>81696026
He didn't do anything wrong, but he didn't do anything right either.
He didn't finish the job
>>81704483
That's a 95% chance all those people are going to die, are you retarded?
>>81699529
nuclear wasteland is preferable to communism though
Most of the characters /co/ praise for being morally grey or "doing nothing wrong" are actually evil assholes.
I've also noticed that some of the characters /co/ claims to have 'done nothing right" were actually the only people who tried to do the right thing but were made to look bad because of plot.
>>81704632
His morality come from capeshit. Of course his retarded
>>81696026
....the whole point of the actual comic book is that he isn't saving the world and his plan will inevitably fail.
There's too many loose ends (it just takes once guy recognizing that the "alien" is made from terrestrial DNA to begin connecting the dots), too much mistrust, and the problem isn't with not having an enemy work together to fight but human nature itself.
It's also sort of meant to be darkly ironic.
He keeps doing all this non-superheroic stuff and claiming that old-fashioned comic book shit doesn't work, but his ultimate plan is the DEFINITION of comic book cheesey and involves "mysterious teleporting psychic aliens" of all things and ignores the more substantial problems causing the war for a more superhero-like band-aid solution that supposedly fixes everything despite addressing none of the underlying problems.
>>81703222
>we nearly had nuclear exchanges so obviously it could never ever happen in alternate timelines
>>81705069
>....the whole point of the actual comic book is that he isn't saving the world and his plan will inevitably fail.
No, that isn't the whole point of the comic book.
The point of the book is the realities of being a superhero, the motivations that would drive someone to be a superhero, and the perspectives superheros take on addressing evil in the world. Rorscharch would rather the world burn for the sake of "justice", Ozymandias is an utter pragmatist who weighs lives of millions against possibly billions, and Owlman is an ineffectual middle ground.
Plus Dr. M is supposed to represent the distancing from humanity a superhero with godly powers would feel.
>>81704616
Aeolia is pretty similar to Veidt in some aspects
>Both incredibly intelligent
>Perceive humanity as on a one way road to destruction
>Hire that world's greatest minds to construct something in secrecy, and then kill them off
>Both set on ending conflict by uniting them against a single enemy
The thing that makes them different though is that Aeolia's plan extended further beyond that last point. He wanted to advance humanity rather than leave it alone to repeat history allover again.
He was also willing to take responsibility for his actions.
I wouldn't be surprised if Aeolia was inspired by Veidt though.
>>81703222
>cooler heads prevailed every single time
>Who is Stansilav Petrov
>>81705324
Uniting Humanity against one made-up enemy was done by Kurt Vonnegut first iirc.
I think framing Dr Manhattan was actually smarter than >le giant tentacle psychic aliens
I mean, when you get him to comply with the plan, there's no way you could be exposed, here - not so much as other anons pointed out.
>>81705295
Hes not though, even he doubts himself
"I did the right thing, in the end I mean"
"There is no end"
It won't last forever
>>81705532
forgot the pic goddamnit
>>81696026
>>81699369
>>81699427
>>81704153
The guy is certainly charismatic and rather honorable (in a sort of Senator Armstrongish way), but he is a giant asshole who claimed to be from hell itself, and is self described "fiendish" who had no issue with killing civilians for personal profit.
He's definitely a villain,he just likes Rango due to his skills and willpower, nothing compassionate beyond that.
>>81705424
Someone who kept a cool head, evidently.
>>81699529
>even in the real world we've been there
The closest we've been is two minutes to midnight until 1960.
>>81705586
Yeah, which how Ozy is painted as not-right, but he isn't painted as wrong either. There is no good and evil in Watchmen. That's the point. It's just good guys conflicting about the best way to help the world and no definitive answer is given. Ozy averted war for this century, but perhaps not for the next.
>>81699353
whether or not they were victims, they were still very guilty and their own struggles do not absolve them.
butch is no villain
hes not even a dindu, hes an antihero at best
>>81699353
That's because the writer has assured the character it's going to happen unless he kills millions of people.
>>81696026
To anyone that genuinely supports Ozymandias. You're fucking retarded. Look at his goddamn name. What do you think that means?
The whole point of Watchmen was showing flawed ideals, represented by characters who held exaggerated versions of them (Rorschach being moral absolutism, Ozymandias utilitarianism, Dr. Manhattan apathy/nihilism)
The only character who was "right" in Watchmen was the Comedian. They pretty much even tell you that in the story itself.
>>81703744
Mate, have you ever been in an emergency or a breakdown of society? Say a natural disaster or a riot?
Yeah, that's when the real human beings come out of the floorboards. They're certainly not good.
>>81705166
the thing is, the answer was never to destroy part of human population instead of diplomacy. You can always talk things over. Why would that not be a possible solution for the smartest man on the planet?
>>81705944
>they were still very guilty
some of them weren't even aware of how they got her powers or what they can do with them.
>>81704616
Who is this supposed to be?
>>81704632
There's a 100% chance I wouldn't be in a situation where I'd be directly responsible for billions of lives, but that didn't stop the scenario from being posted.
And you act like 50% is good odds
>>81696026
OP please kill yourself.
All she wanted was to stop the hurting
>>81706222
nice meme.
>>81706037
It means someone read Shelley.
>>81705069
Uh... no. In the comic it's clear that Adrian has thought of everything and killed everyone connected so that no one can talk and no evidence can be traced.
The only possibility of exposure rests in Rorsharch's journal sitting in the newsroom of a far right wing newspaper and whether they'll be able to rise to the occasion.
>killed millions of people to prevent the military from killing millions of people
HURRRRRRRRR
Ozymandias' plan was fucking retarded
>>81705069
He's not ignoring the world's problems. He's working on those problems next.
>>81707346
Forgot panel
>>81707624
I forget, when did Rory send this off?
