Were the Burton movies always bad?
Burton Batman is best live action Batman
>>77485241
Batman 89 is both brilliant and awful. Though the brilliant is more because the art design team were fucking gods.
>>77485241
were you always wrong?
Discuss.
>>77485241
What's wrong with the Burton movies? The first was has a great ambiance for a Batman film. Just a weird soundtrack by Prince though
>>77485241
They're the best ones, they catch the feel of the comics at the time so well, not to mention Tim Burton was definitely the best choice for Batman
I always figured the only people who gripe about Burton Batman movies are die-hard Batfags. I love the Burton movies just for nostalgia's sake. I'm not a fan of Nolan or Schoemacher, but I'll take bat nipples and ice puns over middling plots and memes any day. Begins was okay, but TDK is overrated and TDKR is just meme fuel, nothing more.
>>77485241
Do you like the Batmobile as it is today?
Thank Burton.
Returns fundamentally should have been the best movie, but it was ruined by Devito. He looked great and physically they couldn't have casted a better actor to fill the role, but Penguin was a complete drag as far as characterization and execution is concerned. And despite being the best character to emerge from the movie, Max Shreck's connection to the story was tenuous at best, as he was just there to advance the real driving forces behind the story's conflict. So despite Walken's excellent devouring of all screen time and the sheer intensity that he brought, it was all wasted when all of these people that realistically were obviously below him in terms of villainy got all the grand set-ups. In my opinion, Shreck is hands down the best original movie character in a Batflick.
>>77487481
Also, you can thank Burton for Batman using a grapple gun, because that originated in this movie.
>>77487481
Burton's Batmobile was nowhere near that Tank-ish. Just a comic book amped-up Green Hornet car. Even BTAS's is still a (weird) car.
Bat-Tank is all Nolan.
>>77485241
Burton was good
Schumacher was shit
>>77488306
I watch Batman and Robin as a Batman '66 movie. In that mindset, it's kinda hilarious.
Forever is shit, though.
>>77488438
Reverse that and you're right
>>77485241
For you.
>>77488175
Isn't that still the Bat Tumbler though?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRZAk2rfESU
>>77488900
>>77488900
Danny Elfman is the single greatest movie composer in the history of movies
>>77487109
This.
>>77489030
I suspect Danny Elfman died in 1995 and everything attributed to him since is just remixed from what he'd already done.
>>77485260
THIS.
Fuck OP, he's a fag.
Batman Returns is one of my favorite films of all time.
>>77485260
This.
>>77487109
Begins is the worst batman movie of all time.
>>77485241
Far from perfect but at least it's not pretentious like Nolan's Batman.
>>77485241
With the exception of how the film handled the Joker Venom, I think it was near-perfect.
Great score, great performances, great direction. Awesome action sequence editing.
Some of its a little dated, like the jumps off buildings etc, but I think it's a good movie that holds up.
Batman Returns is alright. Not terrible, not great. I can't stand Danny DeVito as the Penguin, I just can't. Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman is a goddess, which helps make up for it. Elfman doesn't do anything new or spectacular with the score, and I disliked the ending.
Live-Action Batman Film Ranking:
1. Batman Begins
2. Batman
3. The Dark Knight
4. The Dark Knight Rises
5. Batman Forever
6. Batman Returns
7. Batman: The Movie
8. Batman and Robin
>>77490624
>people actually like begins
Is this a joke? That movie was a dreary unwatchable turd.
>>77490736
Direction was awesome, music was awesome, editing was awesome, it had some great dialogue. That last scene "And you'll never have to" was GOAT.
Was good to see Scarecrow in live-action for the first and probably last time for at least another decade, and Cilian Murphy did well. Neeson was great, their treatment of Bruce Wayne was way better than in TDK or TDKR, where they just ditched his playboy persona. Batman also uses the shadows way more in Begins than in TDK. Gordon was good, and the story was good. It jumped back and forth through time a little more than any action movie should, but that's Nolan for you. Falcone was good.
Negatives would be Rachel Dawes, who I didn't really care for in either of the movies she was in. Also the microwave emitter that we all know shouldn't work like that. And I'm not quite as big a fan of the batsuit as everyone else seems to be.
But yeah. 8/10. I think that's a fair rating. It's better than good, but worse than excellent.
>>77485260
Maybe if Adam West didn't exist.
1989 is brilliant and comes from another age long lost. It managed to be a movie rather than a shitty product.
Its a superhero movie that deals with the origin and the end of the story in a single movie. There are no lose ties for sequels. There are no cliffhangers. Now if you make a super hero movie you put the origin on the first one, the second is filler and the third one tries to rush a forced tie up of all lose ends. Its before this shit of trilogies. It was a complete movie. Not a third of one.
While fusing Chil and Joker wasnt faithful to the comics it let Tim Burton start and finish the story of Batman in a single movie. Batman finds the murderer of his parents and defeats the Joker in the same movie. He starts his career and solves the murder of his parents. Its brilliant.
Doesnt matter if there were no sequels. The movie, Batman's story was complete. And returns was another brilliant move. Instead of adding extra shit to the already closed story of Batman, it just focuses on the villains. Batman takes the back seat and its the story about how the villains reflect into Batman. Both Catwoman and Penguin being deformed reflections of Batman.
>>77487599
Fuck you I loved Devito's performance as Penguin, reason why I love rewatching the movie.
>>77491061
The guy from Gotham is a better Penguin.
>>77491095
No he isnt.
Yes.
Seeing Batman try to fight in his suit all stiff and neck-restricted was always hilariously bad.
>>77485293
>art design team
i was always fascinated by architecture and those miniature crazy city designs in those movies
Even after they transferred into Shumacher i still really, really liked designs.
Like there is an observatory that looks like a antiquity statue holding a globe and that globe IS the observatory?
And there is some other building structure also shaped like a man and at one point Robin rides on it's arm?
That's legitimately dope.
>>77485241
Yes.
The biggest problem with it was his deep contempt for the source material. If I recall never is it stated that bruce wayne is batman. If somehow you didn't know it, the movie would be confusing as heck.
I understand and appreciate not dragging things down with stuff the audience already knows, but allowing the story to develop in any way instead of "here's batman and the joker, who gives a fuck about anything else" would be so much better.
If Burton liked any sort of batman story he would have told the story as opposed to coming up with an excuse to do Burton stuff.
89 is a really good Burton movie if not a terribly faithful adaptation. The design, soundtrack and performances of Keaton and Nicholson are good enough for me to overlook any "not muh bats" problems.
Returns feels self-indulgent.
>>77490868
It's a movie where nothing happens. Nolan was trying way to hard to pretend he wasn't making a superhero movie.
I'd rather watch B&R and Batman Forever than ever see that piece of shit again.
>>77491013
This guy gets it.
>>77485260
THIS, so much.
>>77491013
Spider-Man 2004 is also a good example of this.
Burton's movies are the ultimate representation of how a normie sees Batman. They see Batman and think "wow this guy is the epitome of machismo, a dick to all of his friends, and names everything 'bat-something.'" They don't show him as an emotionally vulnerable, righteous, and caring human being. Like yeah he'll fuck up a criminal and spit in his face afterwards, but he's not the type of person to be dismissive of his partners and an asshole to his teammates. The worst part is that comic book writers afterwards followed suit. I don't fully blame Burton, though. After the horror that the 60s did to Batman, people didn't really know what was the proper way to approach a darker Batman, so they went to the extreme. But I do blame him for refusing to pick up a comic book.
The only thing that turns me off of the first Burton Batman was Nicholson's Joker. Not because "not muh Joker," just something about his character didn't really click with me.
I didn't really find scenes like him breaking into the museum funny or endearing, it just felt kind of silly and out of place in a movie that was otherwise pretty dark and atmospheric in its tone.
I fucking loves Batman Returns though at least.
>>77485260
No. Adam West Batman first, then Burton
>>77485241
I can't be the only one who thought the guy who played young Jack Napier was really cool looking, I also really like the idea of the Joker being a mafioso.
>>77495908
You mean "Nolan" right?
>>77487599
he was fucked up because he was supposed to be two face and it couldn't happen because of the studio. his role was harvey dents decent into madness and evil. instead it was just like whatever.
>>77489967
oingo boingo is fucking great
>>77485241
Burton gave us the best Catwoman we've yet to see on the big screen.
Burton gave us a believable reclusive and eccentric billionaire Bruce Wayne and contrast him with a very different but well characterized Batman - and that's something few Batflicks have done.
The dichotomy of Bruce and the Bat is too often blurred. Joel Schumacker's two Batmen were indestinguishable to his two Bruce Waynes. Christopher Nolan's Bruce Wayne and Batman didn't really have any distinguishable traits beyond one going RHURURURURRRRR a lot and the other smiling like a tool. But Keaton seemed like a fractured man caught between polarities. A broken soul driven and running.
Beyond that, the design of Gotham, the immortal score, the casting, the practical effects.
Burton's films were the best you could hope for in bringing Batman to the Silver Screen at the time. Perfect films? No. Perfect Batman? No. But damn good considering.
>>77485241
The better question would be "Were the Burton movies ever bad?"
And the answer would be no.
>>77497230
Buyrton Catwoman was shit beyond words, her shitty klutz backstory taht turns metahuman because some cats lick her dead body is retarded and her overly cat pun dialogue was cringy.
Keaton was also a horrible Bruce Wayne, he was awkward and suspicious and unattractive and never seemed as driven as Nolan's(at least in Begins) was. You must be a real cretin to not appreciate the character work in begins, the scenes where he wants to kill Chill, the scenes with Ra's when he's training, the scenes where he's simply talking to Alfred, you think Nolan's Bruce Wayne are just the few scene where he's having dinner with rich asses and pretending to be a spoiled brat.
>>77487694
Shit, you're right. He'd always use grappling hooks but it really wasn't in gun form until the movies now that I'm looking back.
That said I could be wrong. I may never read every single Batman comic.
>>77497262
Here's your (You)
>>77490447
literally fell asleep watching it
>>77490868
>I think that's a fair rating.
I don't, but I've seen more than 10 movies.
I can see how you'd arrive at that 8/10 score though, what with there being 8 Batman movies already and two Superman movies worth watching. But what will you do when there are 9 Batman movies and you're forced to discriminate for the first time in your life? Ah, decisions.
>>77490868
I agree, especially on the Gordon thing - Oldman is spot on.
>>77495129
Don't watch it then?
>>77497409
>but I've seen more than 10 movies
Were they all capeshit? Not that it matters since Begins is the best capeshit, but still.
At least they were better than The Dark Knight.
>>77488175
>>77488518
Nah, Bat-Tank is Nolan. Burton's had guns but only a very specific type that's used for destroying equipment; Nolan built a tank as "military surplus" and now it's just a tank with an actual HE firing turret on the front.
On a related note, you can thank Schumacher for getting rid of the yellow oval - only in his vision of Gotham, where everything is lit by neon anyway, it actually makes sense to take away a high albedo surface; in Nolan's Gotham, lit by sodium streetlights, it's creating a single dark man-sized mass instead of breaking it up with just another patch of yellow in a dark street, which is the opposite of stealth.
>>77497425
No, I've literally seen hundreds of movies. Some of them weren't even in English.
