Name me one comic book author that even comes close to writing anything half as good as this guys work and I'll be happy til I've finished reading their complete works.
>>77431803
Hey Alan, we all know your mad that Grant Morrison has one uped one too many times
Its time to let go
>>77431856
Morrison, I don't know WHY you constantly come to /co/ to try and pretend you are Moore's competitor. Your work isn't even better than the average shitty comic writer's.
>>77431803
Jack Kirby, both an amazing artist and writer, his pre capes stuff is facinating, and his marvel and dc stuff is legendary to the point it is some of the most important lore of both companies
>>77431896
Fuck off Miller, arent you busy dying
Get on that will ya
>Alan Moore
>good comic book author
when will this meme finally die?
I mean Watchmen was pretty good for capeshit-standards back then.
But based on his bibliography he barely deserves a spot in the top 20.
Alan Moore is a good writer but he's not the end all be all. If you actually want a list of people who are at least half as good, here's a short list off the top of my head.
Grant Morrison
Warren Ellis
Gabriel Bá
Fabio Moon
Vaughn
Garth Ennis
Gaiman
>>77431914
Kill yourself Morrison
Daniel Clowes.
George Herriman
Lynda Barry
Los Bros Hernandez
Dave Sim
Harvey Kurtzman
Eddie Campbell
Ben Katchor
Gary Panter
Jules Feiffer
Chris Ware
>>77431896
>johnsfags
Gaiman
Jodorowski
Eisner
Rosa
>"Cerebus, as if I need to say so, is still to comic books what Hydrogen is to the Periodic Table, and is one of the only comics that I still read and enjoy regularly every month."
If you haven't read Dave Sim's Cerebus the Aardvark then Alan Moore is disappointed in you.
In fact, if you haven't read Dave Sim's Cerebus the Aardvark then you're a casual with no dedication to comics whatsoever, and you should end every post on /co/ with "t. casual" from now on.
Ah, I remember when I was new to this and thought Alan Moore was the be-all-end-all too. Good times.
To answer your question OP, I raise you Chris Claremont's run on X-Men. This guy wrote a fucking decade long run of multiple books, and very rarely will you ever find yourself bored with any of the storylines. This guy took a mediocre book with an ill-defined concept and a cult following and used it to build one of the biggest aspects of the Marvel Universe.
>>77432048
Eh, it takes a noticeable step down in quality after Paul Smith's departure from the title imo. It's still fairly good though.
>>77432048
this
I have a similar opinion about Walter Simonson's run on Thor too
>>77431856
Moore sees comics as a medium.
Morrison sees comics as a genre. Better throw in some more punches and lasers, pew pew pew!
>>77432048
Too bad for rest of his career.
>>77431803
Moore is overrated and pretentious.
Starlin, Claremont, Kirby, Englehart, Gerber, Thomas, Simonson are better and more enjoyable
>>77432024
Moore had recently a Q&A thing on Good Reads. Would have wanted to ask how he feels about Sim now.
>>77431914
you probably meant Millar?
>>77431925
Ennis is juvenile as fuck. When you get older and more mature, the Ennis charm wears off.
>>77432109
And Byrne's FF
And Miller's DD
Claremont
Ellis
>>77432159
>Starlin
Sure if you like reading the same story over and over.
I am happy that I lived long enough to see Moorefags btfo. Now, I only wait for Morrisonfags to be equally btfo
>>77432262
>Irony, the post
>>77432262
Well, Morrison has already been posted, so I thought we were all cool with that.
Jaime Hernandez
Gilbert Hernandez
Frank Miller
>>77432128
Moore must have been reading too much Mishima.
Has he shown much interest in Japan in his other works?
>>77432281
>there are people on /co/ RIGHT NOW who have read Watchmen but haven't read 100 Rooms, one of the inspirations for Watchmen
>>77432304
There's also that shit with Byrne telling Miller to make Robin a girl because he saw Xaime's drawing of Maggie in the Robin outfit.
Also Moore huge boner for the 9 panel grid like it is some magic thing is fucking hilarious.
>>77432304
Hernandez is not for everyone, and frankly, he is not my cup of tea.
I used to think Watchmen was good until I read Invincible by Robert Kirkman. Invincible deconstructs superheroes in a much more three-dimensional way, and unlike Watchmen it actually has heart, and can handle dark subject matter without Moore's trademark cynicism.
>>77432164
I imagine that Moore's feelings are unchanged.
The creation remains the same even after the creator has changed. Cerebus the Aardvark can still be a phenomenal comic, one of the most important and influential of all time, even if Dave Sim can't hold a conversation without segueing into gender and sex politics.
>>77432349
lol
>>77432341
What?
Is this posts for real?
Which Hernandez?
There is more than one Hernandez.
>>77432349
That's cool but they came out decades apart.
>>77432128
>Morrison sees comics as a conduit with which to transmit quantum theta rays to the sun which bounce back to our planet and produce raw positivity via chaos magic amplification
>>77432396
Guido Hernandez
>>77431856
This. Morrison is a high tier wizard who's works only get better the more you read about the characters.
>>77432396
Probably talking about Xaime. Early Xaime stuff can be a bit of a slog
>>77432349
Is this bait
>>77432424
What do you mean?
>>77432471
Anon means that comics are inherently better when they're published by Marvel or DC.
Just ignore them.
>>77432471
Morrison weaves the characters history throughout his entire run. If you read his run, then go around reading more runs about those characters, then you go back and read Morrison's run again eventually, odds are there are going to be a bunch of references to other runs and history that you didn't pick up on the first time.
>>77432498
>Baby's second year reading comics
>HISTORY AND MYTHOS IS BAD
>>77432525
I wouldn't call them bad, I wouldn't call them good. Having a history and mythos doesn't make a comic better and doesn't make a comic worse. Comics should be judged on their own merits, not by their connections to other works.
Having Morrison reference something from some other comic does not make his own comic more impressive or elevate it to a higher level.
>>77432506
This is actually a problem with Morrison's X-men and Batman runs in my opinion. They're made for people who are already fans of the characters/franchises, not too inviting to newcomers.
>>77432580
Yes it does. If you are a fan of a character seeing a writer reference their history and knowing that they know their shit does make the story more enjoyable.
Give it a few more years of reading, independent works will start to seem shallow. I still read them but it's nice having a writer that is into the lore of the characters when you have spent as many years as me reading about them.
>>77431921
>based on his bibliography he barely deserves a spot in the top 20
More like the exact opposite.
Watchmen isn't even his best work.
Miracleman and Swamp Thing are arguably better.
>>77432596
That's those people's problem. Everything is made for newcomers nowadays. I'm glad there are works for people that have been reading for years.
>>77432629
That doesn't make them inherently better. As the other anon said, comics (well, all works of art really) need to stand on their own merits when being judged, not on the amount of references they have to things from the past.
>>77431946
Ghost World is good when people actually understand that Enid and Rebecca are bad, empty people. Not someone you should relate to.
Rebecca realizes the error of her ways, and Enid kills herself because she's just the worst.
>>77432615
>Give it a few more years of reading, independent works will start to seem shallow.
I am truly sorry for you, Anon, and I hope that you'll get better someday.
>>77432629
The argument about something being difficult for newcomers to get into is bullshit.
I mean, my first X-Men issues were a middle of some crossover, and yet, I didn't have any problem with that.
Especially nowadays, when all info is easily available, the comics not being new-reader friendly is an invalid argument
>>77432655
there are no rules that are set in stone.
>>77432656
Ghost World is the least interesting Daniel Clowes comic I've ever read.
Wilson is probably my favorite.
Even Bendis is better than Moore.
Fucking nigger
>>77432655
They are inherently better to people that have been reading for years. That's the problem with people that just got into comics as >>77432596 demonstrated they think everything should pander to them.
>>77432701
No Bendis, you are not better than Moore.
Nice try Bendis, though.
>>77432616
seconded, From Hell is especially great. Seems he just puts in a hell of a lot more research than other writers...
>>77432718
Both of those posts were my own. I've been reading comics since I could read, my dad has a 10,000+ collection, those works were quite easy for me to read. I just don't think they're good because they reference other comics. I'd rather their own story/art stand on their own.
>>77432732
End of Days and Alias are better than any of Moore's works combined.
>>77432771
>mandatory Alias shilling, due to the show being on netflix soon
If you really believe that, there is no hope for you.
Bendis' works are derivative at best
>>77432128
>that "punchiline"
My back hurts now.
Neal Adams is the best writer because he knows the truth about the Earth.
>>77432769
And you're the one who seems to think good comics should pander to older readers.
>>77432769
But Morrison's works do stand on their own. Knowing a character's history just adds depth. Hence why they get better as you read more.
There aren't a lot of works you can revisit and learn new things that you missed the first or even second or third reading.
>>77431925
>Vaughn
Hahaha.
Nope.
>>77432349
>>77432718
A comic's quality is determined by the execution of the plot, the authenticity of the dialogue, the presentation of themes and ideas, the use of paneling, the framing of scenes, the positioning and movement of bodies and objects, the skill of conveying thoughts and feelings through body language and faces, the little nitty gritty details that the writer(s) and artist(s) really have to work on.
By your logic, a bunch of scribbles make a good comic if you throw in a few references.
>>77432832
Maybe we're just looking at this from different angles. With his Batman run in particular I'd already read most of the works he was making references to, specifically all the Golden Age and Silver Age stories. Seeing them again in a slightly modernized form wasn't amazing to see.
>>77432865
that was actually a brilliant. I'm going to steal that idea
>>77432865
Look autismo there are many different things that make a comic good not just your constructive literary standards.
>>77432865
But Morrison literally excels in every single area that you stated.
![1011447-bignumbers_1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/bKf1oJ5.jpg "1011447-bignumbers_1[1].jpg")
>tfw we'll never be able to read the rest of this
Huge tragedy. Moore working with one of the best artists to tell the sort of story that I really love.
>>77432915
You...you know there's more than one idea as to what makes a comic good presented in that post, right?
>>77432615
I hope this is bait. Comics are not just cape stuff, not just stories about characters.
What makes Sandman different from Grant's Bats Run is, while they both hold intertextuality in a high regard, Sandman utilizes it with universal literature, blended into the motif of the story and the main character. Morrison's Batman run uses it as a resource to make the story more convoltuted, to twist it, or just as a homage.
And even then, comics are not just serialized monthly feats of caped guys, comics are a different medium to tell different stories. References are not in any case an indicator of quality.
>>77432915
>there are many different things that make a comic good
Yes, and they're all dependent on the comic itself.
Comic A is only good if Comic A itself is good. Comic A doesn't become good by having a reference to Comic B, no matter how good Comic B might be.
>>77432953
But Morrison's works are fantastic so the argument still holds.
>>77432797
>>mandatory Alias shilling, due to the show being on netflix soon
I will fucking choke you to death.
I have the first goddamn edition of the comic. GTFO of my face.
>>77432924
They tried to publish it twice. Eddie Campbell offered to do it some years ago but Moore declined due to the previous failed attempts.
Shame, it might have been his best work.
>>77432948
>>77432953
Kek there are a lot of pretentious people ITT that think their opinions are fact.
>>77432923
You are factually incorrect and you should hang your head in shame.Because half of those concern what the artist does, not what Morrison does.
>>77431925
>Gaiman
mah man
>>77432985
Based on what I know about it, I really think it could have been. At the very least it would be worthwhile for Sienkiewicz's art.
>>77432995
You've been the one stating that a comic making references to older comics makes it inherently better.
>>77432998
Except Morrison gives strict details to his artist. That's why a lot of people don't enjoy working with him. I'm starting to think you've never even read any of Morrison's work or the extras in the back explaining his process.
>>77433019
What? I just got ITT. Stop assuming dumbass.
>>77432972
Morrison's comics are claimed to be fantastic according to people who claim that references make a comic better.
They have to be re-evaluated from the ground up according to this new and revolutionary idea that references add and subtract nothing.
>>77432176
Busy dieing im pretty sure he meens frank miller which is pretty fucked up
At least once he dies everyone will admit hes the best
>>77433030
All the two anons were saying is that comics should stand on their own if they want to be respected as great works. This is inherently understood in music, literature, film, etc.
>>77433020
Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
It doesn't matter how many details Morrison gives. If he has a shitty artist then the art will still look shitty. If he has a great artist then the art will look great.
When it comes to the artwork of comics that look great, credit the artist, not the writer.
You lose nothing and you should feel no shame in acknowledging that Morrison doesn't "excel" in every aspect associated with art.
>>77433067
Just wait when Holy Terror will be unironically praised on /co/
>>77431803
Half as good? There's a few, Ellis, Gaiman, Morrison, David Mack. No one has written as good stuff as him though
>>77433240
You probably never read Steranko or Eisner
Hell, even Stan Sakai is better
>>77432656
I think that's sadly beyond a lot of people on this website. Not classifying a character as good or evil seems to be well beyond most characters.
>>77432656
>You shouldn't relate to someone who isn't a good person
Not all of us are angels anon
>>77432615
>reading comics for references
fuck off
>Give it a few more years of reading, independent works will start to seem shallow
most people do the opposite as they read more comics and get into more indi stuff. I still read big two, mostly for popcorn, brainless enjoyment (very few stories are deep in any meaningful manner and those come out a couple years apart usually), but if I want something that challenges me or evokes thought or emotion in me, I go to other publishers.
>>77432771hopefully this is the right sized image of this page
No, when Moore does good stuff he is far better than anyone. The only comic writer that can compare to his prose is Gaimanand maybe David Mack
>>77432924
please enlighten me. What is this?
>>77433467
Based on the image provided, I'm going to make the assumption that it's a comic book named "Big Numbers".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Numbers_%28comics%29
>>77433033
I'm not a fan of Batman, but his Arkam Asylum was one of the best comics I've read. This is his stand out IMO and the one thing that can hold up to Moores work, but I think a lot of that is because of Dave McKean, who he had 'courted' for over a year to get him to do the art for it.
>>77433437
Kill yourself
>>77433255
You are right, I haven't. I've never had them recommended or had access to any of them. I get my comics from LCS's, /co/ recommendations/downloads, and libraries (found the best stuff from libraries out of all 3). So, I know there are critical gaps in my reading, but everyone has gaps in any art media, just not enough time to get it all. Comics are easier to get a broad grasp of, cause they can be read faster than most media, but still, just not enough time in the day.
>>77433572
Wow, rude.
>>77432616
>Miracleman
In what way? Watchmen trumps it in every category?
>>77431803
Peter Bagge
Daniel Clowes
Chris Ware
Hernandez bros
Harvey Pekar
Lynda Barry
Phoebe Gloeckner
Dave Sim
Noah Van Sciver
Simon Hanselmann
Dash Shaw
Joyce Farmer
Robert Crumb
Derf Backderf
Chester Brown
Seth
Joe Matt
Jason Lutes
Jeff Lemire
Charles Burns
Tim Lane
And many more... Moore is decent for geek shit but it's still geek shit. A pig is still a pig even if you put makeup on it.
>>77432656
You can relate to the characters even if they are horrible people. In the case with Ghost World there are idiots who are just like Enid who don't realize they are horrible so they think it's a good thing to relate to her and kinda looks up to her. It's totally different to read Ghost World and think "ah man, I used to be like this in that age too. What a fucking hipster douchebag I was" which hopefully most people do and not looking up to Enid.
>>77433467
Comic Moore started about math with Sienkiewicz on art. Sienkiewicz couldn't keep up with the art at the time and had to back out, and it all fell apart from there. Two out of twelve issues were published. I believe a third was completed and scans exist.
>>77433437
here is the proper sized one.
>>77433672
From Hell isn't really geek shit.
I agree with your overall list, just pointing out that a fair chunk of Moore's work isn't so easily classified.
>>77433493
>Each page is laid out in a rigid twelve-panel grid. The all-white Speech balloons are perfect circles of equal diameter.[12]
Another level of understanding Big Numbers is through fractal geometry, chaos theory and the mathematical ideas of Benoît Mandelbrot.[citation needed] The series intended to show that patterns existing at the large scale (the effect of the town) would have existed at a micro scale (the effect on individual characters' lives).[citation needed]
God DAMN! That sounds fucking fantastic!
>>77433605
I feel like I should recommend you Red Tide
It's a pure graphic novel based on Chandler's book.
It might not be easy to get, or download, but it's worth it.
And if it makes you feel better, not many people even on /co/ has read it, and it's something that you will also enjoy
>>77433672
>Moore is decent for geek shit but it's still geek shit
Oh my god what a pretentious fuckhead, you seriously think alt comics are not geek shit
>>77433842
Explain to me how the subject matter of like Pekar's work is geek shit?
>>77433842
> you seriously think alt comics are not geek shit
Most alt/UG/comix arent geek culture oriented i.e superheroes, sci-fi, fantasy etc so no. Geeks don't tend to read alt stuff.
>>77433842
Get out geek!
>>77433887
I don't know anyone who I wouldn't call a geek who has a serious interest in comics period.
>>77433318
some of you are intelligent, nihilistic with a wicked sense of humor
>>77432596
Morrison's X-Men isn't really pandering to old fans. Half the stuff in it run new and "classic" characters are pushed to the side for Morrison's creations. That isn't to say it's bad but as a long time x-fag I didn't feel like I was getting anything special because of my previous experience with the franchise
>>77433935
If you mainly read geek comics then it should come as no surprise that you find yourself associating with mainly geeks.
>>77433796
>It might not be easy to get, or download, but it's worth it.
Thanks, I will take the recommendation. In Canada our libraries are all linked (not sure if it's the same in the US), so I can just order almost anything.
>>77433935
Nah man, you're confusing the words nerd and geek. Anyone can be a nerd in any sort of interest/taste but geek is when you're a nerd in a geek culture oriented interest. Alt comics are very rarely geek culture oriented in their subject matter. I'm a huge comix nerd but not a geek.
>>77434004
I don't mainly read geek comics, I've read works by most of the writers you posted. I stand by my claim. You have to have a narrow definition of a geek to think only people with an interest in sci-fi/fantasy are geeks.
>>77433935
depends on your definition. Are all /lit/fags geeks?
>>77431803
I can name four;
Jack Kirby
Will Eisner
Moebius
Ozuma Tezuka
>>77432832
>look at this silly Silver Age Batman story
>what if it was actually edgy and fucked up
That's what the first half of Morrison's run boils down to. I like it but it's not deep or anything
>>77433935
That's because you're american and was raised to think that comics can only be one genre and not a storytelling medium with just as many genres as film or literature.
>>77434045
Only people with a serious interest, but yeah, pretty much.
>>77433103
So a director has nothing to do with the quality of acting in a movie?
You fucking drooling retard.
>>77433875
How are they not? They're the personal anecdotes of someone who would professionally hang around Crumb and all those 70s stoners. The target demo is not normal
>>77433887
Are you really saying this when the poster boy series for alt comix is Love and Rockets, a series with wrestlers and sci fi mechanics and references to stupid movies and hot chicks? And people like Seth and Chris Ware who are cooky about the 40s and 50s of cartooning and have their styles and layouts reflect that? Even someone who is just gaga about comix is probably a weirdo like >>77433935 said
>>77433020
Is Quietly the only guy who can decipher his scripts? Because of his modern books the only ones I'd consider "great" are his collaborations with Quietly
>>77433935
Do you have to know them personally?
I suppose there might be some difficulty in going out to meet Georgia Congressional Representative John Lewis, for example.
>>77433255
Is Steranko's writing all that great? I read his shield and the main attraction was really the art
>>77434122
I think it's a matter of them having a great creative chemistry. Claremont was rarely as great as he was when he worked with Byrne.
>>77434044
Is a person who's very interested in jazz from the 30's a geek? Is a person who is very interested in 90's hiphop a geek? Is a person who is very interested in paintings from the 1600's a geek? Is a person who is very interested in Green Bay Packers a geek? Is a person who is very interested in beer brewery a geek? No, they are nerds, but not geeks. A person who is very interested in something like Star Wars, then he/she is a geek because it falls under geek culture oriented interests. Unless the person is a child of course, than it's just normal.
>>77434118
You are also confusing the terms nerd and geek.
>>77434044
A work might be broadly enjoyable by everyone, geeks and non-geeks alike, but that doesn't mean that it can't have a narrowly-focused target audience of geeks.
>>77434118
Well I will just give you one example of 'non-geek' comics. Kabuki - Dreams is about a character going through the emotional turmoil of losing her mother. Basically a poem where half of it is the art. This is not genre fiction, it's poetry and I think you would be hard pressed to call this anything geek. And if you do, any interest is, at which point you've made the term meaningless as it encompasses anything and everything.
>>77434118
Love and Rockets was just as much about the 80's punk rock scene in california if not more than it had sci-fi and cape references. People who, like me, are into 80's punk are not conisedered geeks, but music nerds. That's also the reason I got into L&R in the first place. Altough I tend to like the Palomar stories more than Locas.
>>77434109
A film director is the film equivalent of a comic artist.
The film equivalent for a comic's writer would bethe film's writer.
>>77431921
>I mean Watchmen was pretty good for capeshit-standards back then.
sure thing Timmy
>>77434053
All of them are shitty writers (especially Tezuka and Kirby - they're just awful).
>>77433672
>bunch of alt cartoonist are better writers than Moore because they're "alt"
I seriously don't understand this type of shitposting.
>>77432048
I love Claremont X-Men for a lot of reasons but if you think he's anywhere near Moore in terms of writing you've lost your mind
>>77434387
You just seem like a very negative person, to be honest.
Alex Grecian is pretty good.
Proof has a lot of interesting stuff, and seems kinda weird in the way things are resolved and stuff
They are going to release hardcover prints soon, but they've been delayed because of some difficulties though
while the thing in OP is obviously a huge overstatement, all you people naming mediocre to good cape writiers and saying they're better than Moore, you need to get some fucking taste
>>77434388
This.
It still plays it safe in A LOT of ways. The stories may be some of the best in capes, the plots are master work. But in many respects it just can't compare to Moore's more challenging stuff with respect to; prose, artistic composition (not the actual drawing part), or ability to use ideas from multiple mediums and incorporate them into comics.
>>77434459
to be fair, Morrison does non-cape stuff too. I just finished Happy! and it was great. Not some great /lit/erary achievement, but it was a great premise and very enjoyable.
>>77434502
We3, The Invisibles, and The Filth are pretty GOAT as well.
>>77434511
That's pretty cape-y, imo.
>>77434562
None of those are capes. If you think that then James Bond is a cape.
>>77431803
Scott McCloud. He even understands comics more as a medium than Moore does
>>77431803
Neil Gaiman's at least half as good. I'd put them on the same tier.
>>77434502
>I just finished Happy! and it was great
God...
>>77434502
>>77434511
>>77434562
I don't really think this is a matter of cape vs non cape but the thing with superhero runs is that they can't tell a complete story with a beginning and an end, and there are lots of areas that are taboo or just plain immutable, like character death or a complete change of views. This isn't a good ground to tell meaningful stories at all.
>>77434720
Except We3 is all about meaningful deaths and the impact that killing is having on these poor animals. So that anon saying We3 is cape is pretty retarded.
>>77434600
Even Morrison himself has called Invisibles a cape comic and it is one.
Bond isn't that far away from superheroics.
>>77434607
>Scott McCloud. He even understands comics more as a medium than Moore does
>Scott McCloud
>understands comics
>>77434607
huh, just image searched him. I like the intelligent approach. But, not to sound pretentious but does he understand the art of it as well as the intellectual side? Art is very much about channelling/expressing the ineffable, and Moore does that well.
>>77434642
I don't think anyone in this thread dissagree's, it's just that Gaiman does other mediums much more these days. Did anyone ever think of doing Good Omens as a comic? that would be a fucking riot!
>>77434771
>>77434842
You should probably read Scott McCloud's seminal work on understanding comics, called_______Zot!________.
From Hell is better than Watchmen. And all of the comics.
>>77434934
No, it's boring wall of texts about masons
>>77433020
this is it, Morrison even makes other peoples art better
and here I was thinking he can't convey his ideas in any comprehensible way let alone tell someone how to picture them
>>77434934
going a little too far but yeah, kinda
>>77432128
Damn.
>>77432293
Didin't he make that Astro Boy/Tetsujin 28 knock off comic where the two main characters were named after the two bombs that were dropped on Japan? It was even turned into a cartoon.
>>77434863
Too bad about his other work.
>>77434988
It's always a two way street, good art can pick up the problems with writing. For this example I will use David Mack's Kabuki - Dream. He reuses words far too much, it's a beginner mistake but one we all make. Good writing can also patch over bad art.
Dave McKean and Morrison added to each others story in a fantastic way, it brought out the best in Morrison...Sorry, McKean is on another level.
>>77435071
Big Guy and Rusty Robot was Miller
>>77431921
>hurr durr I've never read Swamp Thing
>>77431803
Here's an objective rating to end this silly debate once and for all:
From Hell > Building Stories > Sandman >Black Hole > The Filth
>>77434982
for like twenty pages at best
it's multileveled as FUCK
>>77431803
Alan Moore is the Lady Gaga of comics.
If it wasn't for the weirdness, the returning results would greatly diminish and the lines of influence would be made obvious.
Regardless, his best work is Tom Strong and his worst is everything that tries to be "Lovecraftian".
>>77432194
He balances it with maturity in other areas. It's there for both his own personal sense of humor and balance.
>>77435188
there is nothing objective about good. awards for writing are all fucking stupid, because they glorify what certain people liked. You CAN objectively say what is good and what is bad or mediocre, but it is impossible to diversify further. Because art is objective, and things get messy then. Still, Moore has more things in GOD tier than anyone but Gaiman.
>>77435207
>implying there isn't intelligence behind the lady gaga style
it's hidden a lot cause it's fucking trash pop, but it's there
>>77435331
>Still, Moore has more things in GOD tier than anyone but Gaiman.
Nah and Gaiman has like three good things.
>>77435376
That's what I saying.
Moore is good, but if there wasn't all the weirdness (Worshipping Snake God and Writing Loli Porn) /col/ (a the rest of the industry) wouldn't think his mind "works on a different level". Most of his works are cear subversions or reinterations of genre tropes (just like most cape writers), he just goes about doing it in a more subtable way than most and his prose is ten times better. Most of his "controversial opinions" are commom sense mixed with kneejerk hatred of DC.
He is good, but he isn't that great.
>>77434607
The Sculptor was complete shit, man.
Bless him for making Understanding Comics but he hasn't done anything great since that and Zot
>>77435456
Ok, let me decompact this for you a little bit. You are correct on every level but missing the mark just by a touch.
Genre changing art happens once a while, maybe it's accelerated recently but historically people like Picaso and Salvidor Dali vs Leonardo and Michalageo are so far apart. They changed art.
But art is very RARELY something that happens in big changes of style. Usually, and even in these cases there are examples that they were pulling ideas from others, it is people who are working at the fringes of contemporary art. They know how to push the boundaries JUST enough to keep an audience and do their out of this world ideas.
This is the place I like, and where the true greats manage to balance. I count Moore, Gaiman, Mack, McKean as the people in here (and yes, I'm missing some)
>>77435074
>>77435472
The Sculptor tried. It may have failed, but at least it tried.
I'd rather read an overly-ambitious comic that tries too hard to be a masterpiece than some boring comic that doesn't try at all.
>>77435805
I'm loving this conversation so far. And I agree, I want people to experiment with comics, I think there is a lot of potential yet to be explored, something I'm not imaginative yet to think of.
Are there any crossboarders of /lit/ here? What do they think of comics? I know they would hate /co/ and they are a bunch of pretentious pseudo-intellectual cunts. Still wonder what they would think of some of Moores works
>>77435884
Cross poster here, Moore is good but his thematics and motifs really only excelled in a few of his work. Most of the time they either fall flat or are drown out by his commentary he's trying to convey throughout the book. I gotta agree with some of the anons here that Morrison is probably consistently the better writer.
>>77433107
we are already unironicly praising the dark knight strikes back
>>77435945
>we are already unironicly praising the dark knight strikes back
This. What the fuck is wrong with this board.
>>77435937
really? /lit/ is so pretentious it fucking hurts to read a sentence. How would /lit/ put a cape story above prose like >>77433758
>>77432983
Jesus christ you're a fag
>>77434720
It's not impossible. Even when they assign you nothing but shitty artists.
>>77436289
>It's not impossible.
You pretty much have to be on a comic the company doesn't care about to get that amount of leeway. So a comic about Legion, or Adam Warlock, or Starman
Ennis and Gaiman
Sure a lot of Ennis' stuff is edgy shit but he makes up for it with MAX and most of Preacher
>>77436336
never liked Ennis, except his Hellblazer stuff. Just read Ghost Rider Trail of Tears and it was good, but the art carried it. I don't like Punisher character and don't like his stories (unless someone will point me to one good one above the rest, I will try that). Ennis was a one trick pony for me, Dangerous Habits and haven't liked him since.
>>77431803
Fletcher Hanks.
>>77436508
Skip Punisher and try Fury MAX My War Gone By. It's only 13 issues and possibly his best work
Also Hitman
>>77436617
I started a storytime of Fury MAX but probably didn't get far enough. It just seemed like a bunch of killing with no point, as Ennis does. I get bored of that shit. Hitman I should check out, it's just low on my list of must reads cause it's Ennis
>>77436766
>It just seemed like a bunch of killing with no point, as Ennis does
Not when it comes to war. Ennis is a huge history buff and he loves stories about soldiers. My War Gone by is about the effect of a life time of war has on Fury
>>77432128
>Write hundreds, maybe thousands of pages like this
>Everyone keeps asking me about Zack Snyder movies
With ever work of Moore I read I understand his crankyness that much more.
>>77436927
It doesn't help that terrible interviewers just keep asking him about the movies or the Big 2 because they know if they can provoke a response from Moore about the mainstream they'll get page views.
Whenever I see videos of Moore talking to fans at conventions he seems like a very pleasant man
This was one of the best /co/ threads in month
>>77436927
>Zack Snyder movies
People's dislike of Sucker Punch proves the stupidity of humanity.
>>77433294
>Not classifying a character as good or evil seems to be well beyond most characters.
That's entirely a /co/ thing. It's really fucking freaky how lacking in emotional development you guys are, but that's what makes coming here so entertaining. Way too many people dislike sympathetic villains on principal, as if not being an evil caricature means you have to feel sorry for them or agree with their actions.
>>77437454
My favorite part of that is when they decide that if the villian is symphatetic, then that must surely mean the heroes are actually evil pricks and the villian would make everything right if it weren't for those stupid heroes. Dr. Doom threads are a fucking riot.
>>77431912
two dimensional characters
>>77437683
I think we will have our idea of Purple Man challenged in the new Netflix show. Creator said "He doesn't make you do something, he makes you want to do it."
first emmy cape show ever
>>77431803
dan slott, bendis
>>77437880
I mean Zod was already a pretty 3 dimensional villain and so was Fisk
>>77437934
not to this dark level. Tennet said that his character doesn't know the difference between asking someone to do something and them doing it for him. He doesn't know if the person is obeying him or acting on their own will. He implants the desire to do what he says, not just the action, like Puppet Master. Killgrave is going to be fucking scary and Tennet is the perfect actor for it.I'm an alcoholic so I'm buying tons of beer 3 bottles of wine and a 66 of whiskey for the show...I may die of alcohol poisoning but that's cool
>>77436889
>ywn watch My War Gone By adapted to a 3-hour epic starring Clint Eastwood
jdimsa
>>77438110
Stop buying into the hype it won't be anywhere near as "dark" as they are pretending like it'll be. I doubt he will even rape anyone.
>>77438721
>if there's no rape it's not dark
you miss all the fucked up suicide games in the trailer?
>>77438807
Purple Man is basically rape man you fucking casual.
>>77438721
>I doubt he will even rape anyone
too bad.
>>77433068
>>77432948
>>77432995
But thats not true at all, continuity is in everything.
Sandman uses continuity from old comics, literature, actual history, greek myths, and probably more. Just because its more universal doesn't make it any less valid then just using comic continuity to strengthen your story.
There are plenty examples in other mediums too. The Jungle works a lot better if you know about the time and place its referencing and commenting on, which is a form of continuity. Sluaghterhouse 5 calls upon both historical continuity and the author's own personal continuity (using characters from his other works) which just adds another level to it. Hell, Salinger has a whole series of short stories with characters from previous stories, and most them are much much better if you know the continuity.
The Beatles' song Glass Onion is incredibly referential to previous Beatles songs and is great because of it. Rap is all about continuity, constantly steeped in references to previous works or even remixing a work and adding your own verse, or even beefs between rappers in which their diss tracks very much rely on knowing the whole story.
Continuity can be a sign of quality if its used well AND a story can stand by itself too. There is no one right way.
>>77433875
>>77433887
>>77434182
>>77434199
>>77434217
>fucking nerds going all elite on geeks like it's not the same shit different name
just priceless
>>77436766
The whole point of My War Gone By is that war really is just a bunch of killing with no point. Fury isn't idealistic, but on some level he believes that all the violence he has perpetrated served some kind of purpose. The book is about him slowly realizing that war is senseless and that he never really was fighting for anything except himself.
>>77434199
poetry is for nerds though
>>77439979
but not for geeks
>>77434759
It's still about animals in robot suits so still kiddie geek shit.
>No Peter Milligan
>guy who basically made it cool to explore gender and sex politics back in the early 90s
>psychedelic writing of Morrison tempered by love for poetics
>Insightful commentary on life in Enigma, X-Statix, and Shade
>>77441001
fuck off nerd geek
I feel like each writer has their own strengths
Ellis is good at cool genre fiction usually sci-fi or detective stuff and has a decent singular theme
Morrison does meta stuff very well, and comics as a genre
Moore and Gaiman are probably the most literary of them, but Gaiman more aligned to the fantastic and poetical and Moore being more like a classical novelist
Miller does decent noir and mean as men stories
Milligan is good when it comes to stories of sexuality and gender
etc.
>>77433672
honestly, kill yourself geek
NECRONOMICON
>>77441488
EX MORTIS?
>>77441502
>>77441502
Can some tell my how a woman jacking off a fish monster after being raped by it is the pinnacle of comics. I mean it must be because Alan More wrote it.
>>77441663
Because she want a certain kind of insane that beats Lovecraftian horror: instead of going nuts and losing it like every Lovecraft protagonist, she copes without much trauma and sees fishy as a being with its own needs and desires that can easily be manipulated. Also, the fish handy was a funny exploration of the themes of repressed sexuality in Lovecrafts works
>>77441292
I need a "Like" button for this.
>>77441292
Gaimen is like Moore without the bitterness, and full of a love of wonder and magic in story telling.
>>77431803
I don't know, it feels a little early to say but maybe Tom King might compete. Yhe first issue of Vision sort of rocked this social ennui and slightly fucked up psychological stuff.
And as what little i've read of A Once Crowded Sky gave me some Watchmen vibes as well. But that's a novel about superheroes rather than a proper comic.
>>77442432
I'm happy Tom King's getting love around here but I don't think he's put out enough material to really be counted among the greats
>>77442591
I totally agree. Way too early to say, and too little stuff to work with; but I feel he's got lots of potential.
>>77442432
Issue one of the Visions is literally all I read of him
I love it and how fucking unsettling it is, even when its "calm" but what else has the dude done?
>>77442978
Grayson
The Omega Men
The Green Lantern tie-in for Darkseid Warpersonal favorite out of the three or so i've read so far.,
A novel called "A Once Crowded Sky" about superheroes dealing with the loss of their powers.
