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After how horrible Man of Steel was at respecting Superman is there any reason to look forward to the rest of the MCU?
I just don't want to see The Flash and Shazam raped as hard.
>>78652866
I think you mean DCEU.
I'll be seeing Suicide Squad because it's David Ayer and I'll be seeing Aquaman because it's James Wan.
I'll be skipping BvS and both Justice Leagues because Snyder fucked up Man of Steel and I've never liked his other movies apart from Watchmen. I'll also be skipping The Flash because it's the guy's directorial debut and he wrote Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter and Dark Shadows. Fuck that.
Haven't decided about Captain Marvel, Shazam, Green Lantern or Cyborg because we still don't really know anything about those movies other than the Rock is playing Black Adam.
>>78652866
>After how horrible Man of Steel was at respecting Superman
I'm genuinely curious as to which Superman books you've actually read.
>>78652866
Goyer's gone, so half of what MOS bad is gone.
>>78653114
>says this gay shit
>still gonna watch all BvS and JL
How gay can you be? I bet you're one of those people who hate on Thor: The Dark World and still watched it lol.
>>78653211
*what made
>>78653227
>still gonna watch all BvS and JL
Look, I might, but I'm certainly not going to be seeing them in theatres.
>I bet you're one of those people who hate on Thor: The Dark World and still watched it lol.
Sure, but in fairness I didn't hate on it until after I watched it.
>>78652866
>After how horrible Man of Steel was at respecting Superman
>>78652866
>raped
Oh please dont be so dramatic. MoS is hardly the awful movie people pretend it to be.
>>78652866
Ill watch all of em, i have a good feeling about it
Plus this>>78653211
If they kick Snydsr im good
>>78653114
>I'll be skipping BvS and both Justice Leagues because Snyder fucked up Man of Steel and I've never liked his other movies apart from Watchmen.
>skipping not at least waiting to see what will get
>liking Watchmen
Only normies liked watchmen
>>78653338
>>skipping not at least waiting to see what will get
Do you just see every superhero film without question? I see the ones that I think will be good.
>>78653338
Why do people hate watchmen again? I mean granted it was overall "meh" in my opinion but was it the ending?
>>78653338
>Only normies liked watchmen
You mean people who watch movies beyond just capeshit and know why it's actually a good movie?
>>78653382
>>78653396
I genuinely believe the ending of the movie was better.
>>78653268
Thor was more like Thor and friends doing absolutely nothing for an hour and 30 mins. Loki was the only good part, and based Idris Alba. Da fak
MoS was at least decent and the visuals were nice on the eyes.
>>78652866
>any reason to look forward to the rest of the MCU
No all there movies are too comedic and play it too safe
DCCU on the other hand I can't wait for.
>>78653429
I agree that MoS is better than Thor.
Also, just to clarify, when I say Snyder fucked MoS I'm not saying it was an abysmal movie.
Probably give it around a 6/10. I think that's fair.
>>78653469
It was a pretty average summer blockbuster. I don't know why it gets discussed here so much.
>>78653378
No, but i at least wait till a trailer and have very little faith in Snyder but if it is the first time supes and bats team up on the big screen, nice projecting tho
>>78653396
But its not, lmao butched one of the greatest comics ever made
>>78653382
Yeah, Watchmen is one of my favorite books i respect it enough that lol realism is a shitt excuse for messing with the ending
>>78653180
Not him, but I've read every book since Byrne. I can promise you Man of Steel basically took everything from all of those books and did the opposite.
>>78653180
Read a shitload of supes and I think he was a shitty comic book superman also. I think Chris Evans isn't a good comic book cap . Not saying I don't enjoy his character
>>78653515
>No, but i at least wait till a trailer
There have been several trailers, what are you talking about?
>>78653515
It didn't butcher anything and at least go do some research on the making of the Watchmen movie for the past 20 years and see why some compromises had to be made.
>>78653515
>i respect it enough that lol realism is a shitt excuse for messing with the ending
Was there something deep and compelling about the psychic brain and squid that I'm missing? Because it seems like it was just an excuse for Moore to bring up some of his New Agey views. Realism wasn't the issue, there. It's the fact that this shit came out of nowhere.
I think there are 2 main issues with MoS that rub people the wrong way: Tone, and the lack of the Clark Kent persona. Throughout the entire film its shot with a blue filter that dulls all the colors and everything said/done is always presented in a serious or at times depressing view. Moreover, Clark is never really the "Clark Kent" that we know until the last 5 mins. Perhaps if we had seen the balance between both personas and not just world savior, maybe it wouldnt be so harshly rated.
>>78653596
This. The ending of the movie just reduced the overcomplexity and made them simply frame Manhattan. It was totally fine.
>>78653609
Was fine with the tone, was fine with the Clark Kent persona. Hated the writing. The writing is my only issue, it's just a really, really big fucking issue.
>>78653531
I mean if you take it that way sure. But if you look at it as a elseworlds story then you'll enjoy it more.
>>78653632
Examples on why the movie had shitty writing
>>78653596
>Was there something deep and compelling about the psychic brain and squid that I'm missing?
Yes, moore has his reasons but interpret it how you like
http://io9.gizmodo.com/5162366/whats-this-about-a-squid-spoilers-no-seriously
>>78653632
No, i think any big fan of the book would understand that the squid ment more then what everyone else would say, and if you dont then honsst you're a pleb
>>78653555
Oops triggered the Snyder butchedWatchmen defesne squad, bettah get outta here
Goyer's gone. I have faith.
>>78653325
>>78653336
>Take character that is about doing whatever he can to save human life except in very rare situations
>Lets make him edgy and have him destroy a city
MoS was great
>>78652866
Aquaman is already being raped as we speak. Expect more
>>78652866
>is there any reason to look forward to the rest of the MCU
yeah MCU is a shit
>>78653596
the whole point of the squid was it was an otherworldly threat. Something that was not in any way human, as far as everyone knew.
You can say "Doctor Manhattan went rogue and blew up American cities too!" but you really think Moscow, when already that close to the edge of nuclear war, will believe that this American agent that fought for them in Vietnam is that far off the reservation? That even if he did blow shit up in America, that it isn't somehow a plot?
That's why it had to be an alien. It had to cause a psychic backlash worldwide, and it had to strike America first. Because Adrian's plan wouldn't work otherwise.
>>78654668
Nice try Moorefag
>>78654494
In what way was he edgy? Just because he wasn't super happy all the time?
>>78654494
>Let's have him destroy a city
I get so tired of overblown complaint and half certain this is bait
>>78654494
> Hi, I'm new!
>>78654746
>replying obv bait
>>78654771
shit i should have known my 'tism is flaring up again
>>78654746
>>78654754
>He didn't help destroy half a city
Come on now anon, I watched the movie too.
This is decides how he pretty much never acts like Superman either.
>>78654668
This. The movie had some other issues for me too like prolonging the violent scenes too much compared to the comics. Niteowl I's death was drawn out to a ridiculous length.
>>78654801
>Starting the superhero collateral damage debate
>>78654801
I agree with you on the destruction of metropolis, but people always say superman is too powerful. If he managed to move the fight people wouldve just called him a mary sue.
>>78653531
It was just Earth One. Which is a shame because that book sucked
>>78652866
really depends on how well bvs does.
but i think dc is trying to catch up too fast to marvel (and it'll affect marvel because the general public sees them as one entity)
in bvs they said we need this movie to stand out in the public eyes (so they got images from the dark knight returns) and death of superman.
not to mention they just threw in wonderwoman. and i'm guessing some cameos from upcoming jl members.
>>78653785
Since when were we supposed to start treating superhero movies as Elseworlds? I mean, yeah, they don't share continuity with the main universe, but they usually try to keep characterization and tone consistent with the source material. Goyer and Snyder worked fine for Batman and Watchmen (and 300), respectively, but they were exactly the wrong choices for Superman.
>>78654668
>Something that was not in any way human
No one thought of Dr. Manhattan as anything remotely human.
Dr. Manhattan was a god, even to people who knew him, and by the end he was angry god, casting judgment on humanity.
>>78652866
>OP fucks up
>dis gun b good
>company wars instead
I don't know what I fucking expected from this shithole
>>78655411
At least we're not /tv/, that's something
I only look forward to Strange and MAYBE Civil War, rest is shit
I think people blame Snyder for Goyers faults so I'm still cautiously optimistic about the DCEU
>>78654494
>>78654801
>>78654851
This is literally the total of what Superman directly damaged or is negligent in regards to.
> Slam's Zod thru a silo which he did not see coming (he factually was not looking up at the time), And that causes them to skip and tumble into a 911.
> Superman punched Non into the train yard, which caused a moderate explosion but it did get him out of the middle of town which is a win.
> When he crashes the scout ship which he had little to absolutely no choice in doing, it badly side swipes 2 buildings and crashes into the ground.
> Superman was dead focused on watching Zod and jumped over the skidding oil tanker which exploded and took out a parking garage, his reaction when it did so suggest he did not take notice of what the truck contained and did not know the danger it posed.
> Zod & Clark collide alongside one building creating a large crater.
> Superman tackled Zod thru some steel bars at the construction site.
> Superman dragged Zod's face thru some windows as a direct reaction to Zod slamming him badly into the building opposite.
> Zod was the one that sent them back to earth so he is 95% at fault but Superman took control of their descent at the very end so Zod took the brunt of their impact.
THAT IS IT, That is all the fucking damage he did the entire fucking movie, I can't even describable how little a percentage that is of the total damage in the fucking film.
>>78654494
>Things that didn't happen
>>78654540
Yeah because he's been such a respected character in the past, right?
>>78655017
>but they were exactly the wrong choices for Superman.
SUPERMAN IS NOT FUCKING INHERENTLY CAMPY AND SILLY, there is plenty of serious Superman stories and there is plenty of fucking fans that vastly prefer him when serious.
DC/WB catering to them instead of the audience that THE LAST FIVE SUPERMAN MOVIES where made for is not betraying the source material, it is focusing on a different aspect of it.
Its little different than The 1951 The Thing focused just on the political element/monster movie side of the Who Goes There novel while the 1981 film went back to the paranoia body horror aspect. And BOTH are fucking good films.
>>78655783
People who think Superman destroyed Metropolis don't actually remember the fight, anon. They just repeat what they hear in this echo chamber. You can actually show them the fight and they would still say Superman destroyed the city
>>78655855
It's a shitty serious Superman movie as well though, it's shot terribly, is filled with stilted dialogue, it's pacing is awful ect.
He didn't destroy Metropolis and him being forced to kill Zod could actually be a very interesting plot point. Key word there being "could" because it was barely explored if at all the impact of him taking a life. Serious Supes is at his best when introspective, it just being a dark action movie is the wrong way to go for Supes. His best stories are his darkest, but they're also not filled to the brim with overly long action sequences, terrible camera work and shitty writing.
>>78655973
>Overly long action sequences
His fight with Zod is less than 6 minutes long
It's so fucked up how much and how many people love a Superman willing to commit genocide and kill like the villain said would happen. It's so fucked up people defend and enjoy a Superman that say's nothing when the villain says having a sense of morality makes him weak and them stronger for a lack of one.
I fucking hate so many of you for liking this.
>>78655973
>t's a shitty serious Superman movie as well though
No, it is not.
>it's shot terribly
>terrible camera work
There is not a moment I can think of in the film that specifically visually looks bad to me. You wanting and not getting bright campy silly slap stick looking bullshit world does not mean this film is flawed visually, it means it was not fucking made for YOU.
>is filled with stilted dialogue
Such as? I found much of it added to the epic grand feel of the film.
>it's pacing is awful
Pacing was superb to me, I loved how slow and pondering it was for the first half/middle.
>it just being a dark action movie is the wrong way to go for Supes
Not for fans that despise him when done like a campy fucking joke. And it was never dark it was serious, dark / serious is not the same fucking thing.
> but they're also not filled to the brim with overly long action sequences
The number ONE complaint about Returns was that they went with Luthor again and had nightmarishly little action, they had no fucking choice but to action up this one.
>>78656076
>Not for fans that despise him when done like a campy fucking joke.
Don't sound like fans at all but sheep-like parrots who confused Superman's earnest nature and tone for camp. Making a movie catering to these parrots is a joke because they STILL think Superman is a joke.
>>78655017
Sorry maybe elseworlds is a bad term to use because people think of Kingdom Come or some shit. Treat the movies like alternate realities that have a different take on the character. Don't take it as DIRECT AND EXACT COPY of the material but a adaptation of it.
>>78656075
The army killed or re-imprisoned the rest of the 20 Kryptonians on the Black Zero.
Clark only killed Zod.
And the scout ship and the Birth Chamber would be left intact if Zod was not willing to commit genocide himself, EVERYTHING that goes wrong is Zod's fault.
7 Billion LIVING lives always for now until the end of fucking eternity is more fucking important than non existent vaguely potential lives.
Superman DOES NOT NEED to be a mary sue that can do everything perfectly every fucking day, he only needs to do what is right for the greater good, he needs to be someone we see striving and working his hardest to do what is right and save people.
We got exactly that.
A Superman that doesn't struggle, one who has a unlimited amount of choices and can ALWAYS end a situation in a perfect happy manner is not Inspiring or relatable, it is impossible, it is uninteresting, it has no fucking consequence and has no point in being told.
>>78655586
Because being reddit/tumblr is so much better.
>>78656167
>>78656167
>EVERYTHING that goes wrong is Zod's fault.
You think this would be obvious to everybody when Zod threatens the entire earth unless superman gives himself up. And when Superman did give himself up Zod tries to kill him. I can't believe people blame all this shit on Superman
>>78654527
Yes, but oldfags/snyder haters/MCUcks/retarded will never understand that.
>>78656200
>There are people on /co/ wo think Thor is a better movie than MoS
Truly they are the transformers audience
>>78656167
Strong guy who would just punch everyone with whom you disagree is such an adolescent fantasy that just won't cut it in modern world.
>>78656113
>confused Superman's earnest nature and tone for camp
Nononononono, You misunderstand, I am perfectly happy with Superman still being happy and Ernest, I want the world around him to be serious and realistic.
There is no point in a bright beacon of hope in a bright hopeful world.
And Superman did still yearn to help people and do good and mos, he was just not a naive idiot about it.
Superman's characterization mostly is not what I am calling camp.
Him bumbling around and looking like a incompetent idiot as Clark 99.9% of the time is campy.
Lex and his minions in the Reeves films was camp.
Lois's utter retardation in the Reeves films was camp.
>>78654668
The ending of watchmen was bad for many reasons but lack of squid was not one of them. Leaving out the conversation between god and the perfect man where god says no, what you do does not actually matter, is though. Then Specter gets to causually throws out the icon line in a nothing conversation.
Also the kiss. This shit makes my blood boil.
>>78656199
THANK YOU for your support man, seriously.
>>78656239
I am pretty sure you can make a exception when the person you disagree with is going to factually kill every living thing on the face of the earth.
Clark tried being diplomatic when he turned himself over, Zod spat in his face basically.
>>78656167
>The army killed or re-imprisoned the rest of the 20 Kryptonians on the Black Zero.
They weren't frozen in dildos first. They're dead and Synder confirmed this.
>Clark only killed Zod.
Wrong. He committed genocide against Krypton's dormant species and made sure they aren't one anymore. "KRYPTON HAD IT'S CHANCE!"
And he killed Zod like Zod said would happen. He proved a villain right, did exactly what he said and resorted to killing to solve problems.
>And the scout ship and the Birth Chamber would be left intact if Zod was not willing to commit genocide himself
Wrong. It would be intact if Superman didn't literally destroy it. That was unnecessary seeing as Zod is begging him NOT to. At this point Superman had the upper hand and wiped out an entire species anyway. He had already stopped Zod from shooting at Lois and the military, it was entirely unnecessary genocide.
>EVERYTHING that goes wrong is Zod's fault.
It's also Superman fault for literally being the reason Zod shows up and kills so many people. And as people were dying around him he decided to make out with Lois directly after destroying Krypton essentially.
>Superman DOES NOT NEED to be a mary sue that can do everything perfectly every fucking day
Shut the fuck up and stop pretending you know shit about the character from any era. You're a liar, you don't know dick and people who parrot you make me sick.
>>78656292
I mean, "a guy who is like super-strong and always does the right thing because he's superstrong and can do anything" is just too simplistic for complex modern world.
>>78656292
>Clark tried being diplomatic when he turned himself over, Zod spat in his face basically
When????? When did Clark offer any alternative at any point to Zod to sway him away from destroy Earth? Fucking when, dude? When??
>>78656297
> They're dead and Synder confirmed this.
Sourse?
>Wrong. He committed genocide against Krypton's dormant species and made sure they aren't one anymore. "KRYPTON HAD IT'S CHANCE!"
You can't be this retarded
>It's also Superman fault for literally being the reason Zod shows up and kills so many people. And as people were dying around him he decided to make out with Lois directly after destroying Krypton essentially.
Kill yourself
>Shut the fuck up and stop pretending you know shit about the character
Kill yourself again Morisonfag.
>>78656352
Dumbass, nice retorts. Hopefully you possessing half a mind still affords you the ability to read, death worshiping bitch.
>>78656297
>genocide
He destroyed a bunch of genetic samples. No amount semantic wankery will elicit the same horrified reaction to this, from whoever you're trying to convince, as actually killing people would.
>It's also Superman fault for literally being the reason Zod shows up and kills so many people
If they ever adapt Brainiac, they're going to have to write out his interest in preserving the last Kryptonian just to appease casuals like you (after they keep him from actually destroying any planets, which is what he does, since you guys freaked out at Zod destroying a few blocks in a city).
>>78656297
>did exactly what he said and resorted to killing to solve problems
When said problem is physically capable of and mentally willing to murder every human being on earth BY HAND and there is no kryptonite, no Deus ex Machina machine to depower Zod with, and no know prison on earth that can hold him, THIS IS NOT A UNREASONABLE FUCKING SOLUTION!
The entire point of the film is to give us a Superman who has realistic options and must make hard choices. That is not bad fucking writing.
> It would be intact if Superman didn't literally destroy it
He did not, his eye beams only blasted thru the hull, the impact of the scout ship against the ground is what ruptured the birth chamber.
> At this point Superman had the upper hand
The second Zod got out of the chair, they would be equal again.
> and wiped out an entire species anyway
The species is fucking DEAD and wiped out, preventing natural machines from cranking out clones is not genocide anymore than masturbation is.
> He had already stopped Zod from shooting at Lois and the military
All he had to do was re aim and pull the trigger again.
> It's also Superman fault for literally being the reason Zod shows up and kills so many people
He is 100% unintentionally the reason Zod knows of his location, but he had NOTHING fucking to do with Zods intent to kill anyone.
> You're a liar
What lies, WHAT AM I FUCKING LYING ABOUT?
>>78656325
Hence why this film is set in a universe where he can't do anything/everything and has realistic sometime bleak options.
Exactly we agree.
Oh great. This argument again. Let's rehash all of this bullshit for the umpteenth time. And it all boils down to "Not muh Superman" in the end.
>>78656335
When he turned himself over.
He had no other option to offer, He asked what Zod's intent was Zod fucking told him.
Zod's statement that the foundation has to be build on something rules out the other planets near earth.
>>78656297
>It's also Superman fault for literally being the reason Zod shows up and kills so many people. And as people were dying around him he decided to make out with Lois directly after destroying Krypton essentially.
This is the case in Superman II (both cuts) and in several of the comics where Superman releases Zod or others from the Phantom Zone either unintentionally or deliberately.
>>78656297
>>78656429
>preventing natural machines
UN natural machine is what I meant to say, my bad.
>>78656325
Superman can't do everything. He's a flying brick.
That world spin at the end of Superman the Movie gave casuals the wrong idea about the character. Modern Superman can't actually travel through time or give people amnesia by kissing them.
>>78656419
>He destroyed a bunch of genetic samples.
Those genetic samples you're trying to downplay is the reason Jor-El risked his life, left his wife to die alone and got stabbed to death so Superman "could be the bridge between two peoples."
It's genocide. If you destroy all the women on planet Earth and left men you don't have a species anymore. Human's are done.
"KRYPTON HAD IT'S CHANCE!" means Jesus-Man passed judgement on an entire species and deemed them unworthy of life. They had their chance and didn't deserve another because of the crimes of their idiotic government. MOS made Superman an xenophobic (Do you agree with that?) genocidal killer. And people still think he sucks.
>they're going to have to write out his interest in preserving the last Kryptonian just to appease casuals like you
The problem here for me is acting like he did nothing wrong when he sneaks into a secured government compound to activate an alien ship he knew nothing of. No precautions, not even a second thought. It could have easily been a bomb that destroyed the Earth all together. Would you still defend it?
And there's still the matter of him choosing to make out with someone among all the dead and dying who are like that because of him.
And at the end of the film you realize Earth and Pa Kent would have been better off if Superman had died alone in space and we're lucky he doesn't exist. That's fucking fail, idc the purpose. That's fucking fail. And then they had the nerve to make him seems like an ideal or the embodiment of goodness or Jesus.
>>78656478
You can also make this argument for Batman even if it is on a much small scale. But the thing is, Zod was always coming. He was following the Kryptonian scout ships. It's a good thing Superman was on earth because nothing would have been able to stop Zod
>>78656506
>He's a flying brick.
No he isn't. Don't say dumb shit. I agree that Superman can't do everything but that is just grossly misinformed
>>78656335
>When????? When did Clark offer any alternative at any point to Zod to sway him away from destroy Earth? Fucking when, dude? When??
Clark had no alternative to offer. What is he supposed to say to space Hitler that will make him change his mind? Zod is a colonizer. You know what happens to less advanced civilizations when a more advanced one wants their stuff? Genocide or subjugation. The only thing you need to understand that is basic knowledge of human history.
>>78656509
>And at the end of the film you realize Earth and Pa Kent would have been better off if Superman had died alone in space and we're lucky he doesn't exist
You're wrong though
>>78656335
When he turned himself over. If Zod was reasonable Superman would have helped in anyway that he could but Zod IMMEDIATELY tried to dissect Superman.
>>78656535
>The only thing you need to understand that is basic knowledge of human history.
Yes, because this applies to a fictional story about aliens.
The only offer needed was to willing go with Zod to resurrect Krypton but only under the condition Zod leaves Earth alone. BOOM MOS 2 and something Donner hasn't done for Synder and Goyer to lazily copy! Also in character!
>>78656509
>means Jesus-Man passed judgement on an entire species and deemed them unworthy of life
He did fucking not judge them on any level whatsoever.
He chose to save 7-8 BILLION LIVING LIVES rather then numberless non existent lives.
> The problem here for me is acting like he did nothing wrong when he sneaks into a secured government compound to activate an alien ship he knew nothing of. No precautions, not even a second thought. It could have easily been a bomb that destroyed the Earth all together
It was not in a compound, it was still in the fucking ice.
> No precautions
He took it DEEP into the arctic and away from the untrustworthy military.
Him activating it with a key of the same origin is a million times a better idea then the military spending decades taking it apart piece by piece.
> And there's still the matter of him choosing to make out with someone among all the dead and dying who are like that because of him.
He was kissing the woman who was only the 3rd person in his entire life he trust after they both almost were torn apart atom by atom in a black fucking hole.
They were both literally trembling as they embraced.
People need fucking comfort after a traumatic fucking experience.
And they are dead or dying BECAUSE ZOD AS A SENTIENT BEING CHOSE TO FUCKING MURDER THEM.
>>78656559
>>78656559
>The only offer needed was to willing go with Zod to resurrect Krypton but only under the condition Zod leaves Earth alone
I really love how this cunt ignores that Superman tried to do this but Zod set it up as a trap. I also really like how this cunt ignores that Zod had shown himself to be a lunatic by threatening the entire earth in his first broadcast. You're a fucking idiot
>>78656515
Yes, I agree completely. Even more important is the thematic significance of the Kryptonforming. It's established in the film that Earth is already on it's way to being turned into Krypton through humanity's actions. Zod merely accelerates the process. This is why the destruction of Krypton is visually linked to the burning oil platform.
>>78656375
Literally what is this trying to prove?
>>78656559
>Yes, because this applies to a fictional story about aliens.
Yes it does. All fiction is about humanity you idiot. Every alien in "Star Trek" is used to examine the human condition, to explore facets of humanity. The same is true of "Man of Steel". Kryptonians are, thematically speaking, a possible future for humanity.
>>78656581
>He chose to save 7-8 BILLION LIVING LIVES rather then numberless non existent lives.
You're one of the Bro-job people that don't mind having gay sex but don't concern yourself gay because you aren't romantically attracted to men. You're still gay and Superman still choose to save one planet over the other.
That is fucking fail.
>It was not in a compound, it was still in the fucking ice.
True but it was secured by the military. Secured enough where it wouldn't attract the means to end the Earth to Earth.
>He took it DEEP into the arctic and away from the untrustworthy military.
He activated it first. There were no precautions taken before turning the shit on.
>People need fucking comfort after a traumatic fucking experience.
I'm a fire fighter and while I agree with that this is Superman. He doesn't stop to make out with someone while a cities worth of people are dead and actively dying around him.
>And they are dead or dying BECAUSE ZOD AS A SENTIENT BEING CHOSE TO FUCKING MURDER THEM.
A being Superman summoned himself. His hands aren't fucking clean of the blood shed. Not enough for him to disregard THOSE DYING AROUND HIM.
>>78656509
>comparing genetic samples to living breathing things
>anon doesn't masturbate because he's afraid he'll murder his own babies
Must be great to be you
>>78653336
It was boring as shit, I don't care about the rest of it. I can barely remember half of that movie and only because /co/ brings it up every day.
>>78652866
Think Under the Red Hood is sort of confirmed, no idea when though, mostly looking toward that myself.
Just for fun, anyone have the edit of Supes deciding to spare Zod because of 'maybe'?
>>78656583
>I really love how this cunt ignores that Superman tried to do this but Zod set it up as a trap.
When? When did Superman say a fucking word about any alternative what so ever to terraforming Earth? I mean, even one word of an alternative plan to Zod. When, bitch?
>I also really like how this cunt ignores that Zod had shown himself to be a lunatic by threatening the entire earth in his first broadcast.
So? When did Superman present any alternative idea to Zod? When?
>>78656625
>Kryptonians are, thematically speaking, a possible future for humanity.
Fine but this is also a fictional story. You saying, "There was no alternative to offer" is false due to this being a fictional story fabricated by people.
>>78656559
>The only offer needed was to willing go with Zod to resurrect Krypton but only under the condition Zod leaves Earth alone. BOOM MOS 2 and something Donner hasn't done for Synder and Goyer to lazily copy! Also in character!
And Zod would never agree to such a thing. He has in his own words "journeyed across an ocean of stars." to reach Earth. One planet among the all the others he has seen in 30 years capable of sustaining life. He's not just going to leave to search for another possible world when he's standing on a perfectly good one already. That would be like the settlers of the new world going "Oh! There are already people living here? I guess we'll all just have to get back on our ships and sail somewhere else then." No, the pleople already living there are lesser beings and wiping them out to ressurect the glory of Krypton is in Zod's mind perfectly acceptable.
>>78656637
>He's still ignoring that Zod was always coming to Earth
>>78656509
>If you destroy all the women on planet Earth
Back to killing people, here. The more apt comparison would be to destroy that Tasmanian Tiger embryo, preserved in Australia, that could potentially be used to clone a new one. Or blowing up a sperm and egg bank, long after humanity, itself has gone extinct.
>And there's still the matter of him choosing to make out with someone among all the dead and dying who are like that because of him
This was a bad scene; I'll give you that. They took a lot from Superman Earth One without showing the sensibility here to maintain the tense and dour atmosphere throughout the entirety of the climax (Earth One also ended with a bunch of people blaming Superman for the destruction, instead of the "he saved us" from MoS and Clark commenting on the amount of people who died). So my criticism is, essentially, in contrast to most people who dislike MoS and criticize this scene, in that they should have committed to remaining grim about the entire ordeal, instead of attempting to add levity to a scene in which hundreds died.
>And at the end of the film you realize Earth and Pa Kent would have been better off if Superman had died alone in space and we're lucky he doesn't exist
We're lucky we don't live in Superman's universe, a world in which cities are wiped off the map, where reality is constantly rewritten and retconned, and in which people die in droves, yes, because we'd get the supervillains, along with the heroes, that cause all of this to occur. This seems like an obvious observation, that has little do with MoS.
>It could have easily been a bomb that destroyed the Earth all together
That's not what happened, though, and the government could've easily set such a thing off with its tampering, too.
>>78656649
>>78656679
>And Zod would never agree to such a thing.
You're not Synder or Goyer to say this. Also, the point of the argument isn't what Zod would agree with but if there was any alternative Superman could have offered but didn't. Also, it could have easily been MOS 2. It's all fictional.
>>78656676
>When, when WHEN!!!!!!
When he went to the ship, but Zod never gave him a chance. When Superman came to Zod was already on Earth about to kill everybody. But maybe you think Superman should have still helped the genocidal maniac that had already tried to kill him who had threatened the world. Fortunately superman isn't as stupid as you.
>>78656637
>You're one of the Bro-job people that don't mind having gay sex but don't concern yourself gay because you aren't romantically attracted to men.
WAT?
> You're still gay and Superman still choose to save one planet over the other.
That is what happens when one planet attacks the other innocent planet and there is no way to save the attacking planet without killing the innocent planet.
> He activated it first. There were no precautions taken before turning the shit on.
He had no idea it would turn on the entire fucking ship.
> I'm a fire fighter and while I agree with that, this is Superman.
1.) I respectfully thank you for your service, My father is also a fire fighter.
2.) This is intentionally a realistic, flawed imperfect Superman who is very human.
> A being Superman summoned himself
BY ACCIDENT AND ENTIRELY 100BILLION% NOT WHAT HE WOULD HAVE WANTED.
This is like saying if I leave my yard tools out I am the bad guy because someone chooses to steal them.
And he is not disregarding anything or anyone, it is not occurring to him because again,he almost just genuinely died for probably the first time in his life.
>>78656637
>A being Superman summoned himself. His hands aren't fucking clean of the blood shed. Not enough for him to disregard THOSE DYING AROUND HIM.
Clark didn't summon anyone. That implies knowingly requesting Zod appear before him and he did no such thing. Stop replacing what actually happened in the film with your fantasies.
>>78656698
>You're not Snyder or Goyer to say this
Oh man you have to be a troll at this point. Shannon Zod is literally the most reasonable Zod has ever been. A more in character Zod would be screaming about how humanity will knell or they will die screaming
>Zod would just be real out of character and just leave guys, honestly!
>>78656698
>You're not Synder or Goyer to say this. Also, the point of the argument isn't what Zod would agree with but if there was any alternative Superman could have offered but didn't. Also, it could have easily been MOS 2. It's all fictional.
It's also narratively and thematically inert and utterly incongruent with the character of Zod as presented in the film. I'm glad "Man of Steel" wasn't written by you since it's clear you have no understanding of narative, characterization or themes. Your understanding of storyteling is childish.
Let me ask you one question: What is the central theme of "Man of Steel"?
>>78656527
>superman isn't a flying brick
This reasoning I need to hear. Superman is the quintessential flying brick, from which all others have been influenced. He flies fast (but not remotely Flash-level), punches hard, and occasionally uses heat vision or his new solar flare, which leaves him unpowered. Writers occasionally remember that he has ice breath.
He's not some sort of reality warper, which is what casuals appear to think he is.
>>78656694
The kiss did not seem like levity to me at all, it came off as passionate desperation.
Superman Earth One, got the tone right like Mos did, the problem with Earth One is there is not a single moment in it that Clark is likable or it seems like he wants to help people, it seems like a burdern to him.
Mos's Clark always seems to want to help others, his burden in mos is the fact that it may cause more harm then good.
>>78656715
>This is like saying if I leave my yard tools out I am the bad guy because someone chooses to steal them.
No, it's like saying you left your yard tools out but a guy stole them and killed 2 people but you stopped him from killing a third but those first two deaths are your fault
>>78656746
I'm not saying he's a realiuty warper but you should actually try reading some Superman stories. Whats funny is that Superman rarely ends his conflicts with brute strength while the genius Batman ends the majority of his problems by kicking the shit out of somebody.
This thread is full of bait and people are being baited in like it's nobodies business lol
>>78656802
But who is the baiter?
>>78656746
The problem many people have with "Man of Steel" seems to be that Clark is not omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent by way of writer fiat. "Man of Steel" is the "Last Temptation of Christ" of superhero films: A great but polarizing film hated by the "true believers" for being blasphemous enough to treat Superman like a man rather than a paragon of virtue. The constant cries of how Zack Snyder and David Goyer does not understand Superman and how the film is disrespectful to the character seems like tantrums thrown by children when told that Santa Claus isn't real.
>>78656699
>but Zod never gave him a chance.
You mean when Zod announced him plan and drown Superman in skulls and Superman didn't mention shit about an alternative idea. And then thereafter proceeded to still keep any idea to himself?
>>78656694
>blowing up a sperm and egg bank, long after humanity, itself has gone extinct.
Just the egg bank but that's essentially what happened. Due to xenophobia, Jesus-Man invalidated his father's death and needlessly obliterated the future of an entire species because of the idiocy and crimes of it's politicians. This, to me, is really the most blatant proof of gross mischaracterization that BVS couldn't hope to make up for. Just can't love a character played up to be the best of mankind who'd do this and which set Zod off into even more of a frenzy. It wasn't even a sacrifice for Superman like it should of been because again he literally makes out and tells jokes with Lois right afterwards.
>they should have committed to remaining grim about the entire ordeal, instead of attempting to add levity to a scene in which hundreds died.
Exactly. It wasn't a time to make jokes and kiss. That's not what this character would do in those circumstances.
>This seems like an obvious observation, that has little do with MoS.
Luckily in some of those stories, there's an upside to having Superman around. Instead of him being the only source of the large number of deaths.
>That's not what happened, though, and the government could've easily set such a thing off with its tampering, too.
My point is the film lauds being realistic and edgy and shit but that realistically could have happened as well but no one would defend Superman if it did like they're now cause only thousands died and that wasn't his fault apparently.
>>78656773
He uses those four powers in clever ways, because he can't do everything and sometimes brute strength isn't enough, but in terms of his arsenal, he's a classic flying brick.
>>78656855
This makes almost every hero a flying brick
"Man of Steel" is the most interesting superhero film made since "The Dark Knight". And it is by far the best Superman film made closely followed by "Superman Returns". Haters can go fuck themselves.
>>78656877
Spider-Man, Wolverine, Cyclops, Mr. Fantastic, Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman, Golden Age Superman, Flash, Aquaman, and innumerable other heroes aren't flying bricks.
>>78656890
>And it is by far the best Superman film
It really isn't at all.
>>78656527
Superman is the quintessential flying brick. He's the ur-example. He's what all other flying bricks imitate.
they fucked their first cinematic universe movie, my hype for BvS is liying on the ground, twitching. the trailer didn't help at all, it looks exactly like MoS, a disgusting filter, Supes portrayed as the villain in his own movie and a tacked-on Wonder Woman. you just know she's going to appear in costume at the last fight. another thing, checking out >>78652866 movie timeline pic makes me think "why is Suicide Squad there?" what do they have to do with the Justice league, if anything it should be a JSA movie. SS just sounds so out of place with the rest of the movies planned, I could say the same thing for Shazam.
You know how Ang Lee's Hulk was a totally stand-alone movie with no relation to other Marvel properties? that's the vibe I'm getting from the DCUC.
>>78653531
That's funny because it was basically Byrne Superman: the Movie
You sound like a butthurt All-Star fag to me.
>>78656912
>It really isn't at all.
Yes, it is. The 1978 Superman is not a very good film and the deus ex machina ending of turning back time to undo everything bad that happened certainly disqualifies it.
>>78656931
>a disgusting filter
Stopped reading right there. Civil War is the film with a filter
>>78656931
You're an idiot and your opinion counts for naught.
So how would MoS Supes deal with them?
https://youtu.be/DTqa-NEwUbs
Just let them die?
>>78655586
>we're not /tv/
That's debatable.
>>78656950
>The 1978 Superman is not a very good film
Then why is MOS just a lazy copy of Donner's shit dumbass? Nothing new whatsoever. Donner already did it and Goyer/Synder even plastered on Reeve's face on top of Cavill's in a scene.
>the deus ex machina ending of turning back time to undo everything bad that happened certainly disqualifies it.
No it doesn't. Before MOS, Donner's shit was remembered extremely fondly by alot of people. It's the reason the public even gave a shit about the character and why we have a superhero movie genre today. That part wasn't great but it didn't ruin what was there and what's been allowed to grow now.
>>78656970
I don't know. Whichever way the script writer choose. Now take your personification of the military industrial complex waging a personal war against non-descript terrorists in the middle east in complete disregard for international law serving as nothing more than libertarian propaganda that the free market could solve all the worlds problem if goverments would just get out of the way so world peace could be achieved by privatizing it and get the fuck out. We're talking about a real hero here.
>>78657006
>Then why is MOS just a lazy copy of Donner's shit dumbass
The only reason casuals think this is because they associate Superman and Zod with literally nothing else other than the Donner movies. If you read comics, you'd find it more comparable to Byrne's Man of Steel, Earth One, and Birthright.
>Donner's shit was remembered extremely fondly by alot of people
Donner's movies have not aged well. They were outdated by the time the Raimi Spider-Man movies came out. The rest was, and still is, nostalgia.
>>78654668
Huh. I never really thought about it but you're right. Even earlier in the movie there's that line that goes "the superman exists and he's American". Why wouldn't Russia just assume that he was acting on orders again and was just making it LOOK like a global strike?
>>78654540
I would trust Wan over Snyder
>>78655855
>here is plenty of serious Superman stories and there is plenty of fucking fans that vastly prefer him when serious.
Name 5. Because you show up in these threads with your poor grammar and your call caps every time someone talks about the tone in Man of Steel, and you never give examples.
For that matter name 5 campy/silly Superman stories without harping on about All Star (the Campy Silly story where Superman is DYING and can't save his dad even though its on his bucket list) for once.
>>78656167
>EVERYTHING that goes wrong is Zod's fault.
Clark brought Zod to Earth. QED.
I will see or skip each one based on the reviews.
It's not like any of these films will disappear if you look away for a weekend. If they prove themselves in the first two or three films, then I'll start seeing them and getting hype.
>>78657116
Superman For All Seasons
For the Man Who Has Everything
Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow
Red Son
Secret Identity
This was a dumb question for anyone who's seen anything from the DCAU. Campy is only the default association if your exposure to Superman comes from the Donner films.
>>78656816
>or being blasphemous enough to treat Superman like a man rather than a paragon of virtue
If you want a humanized protagonist that can't pull off miracles don't constantly parallel him to Jesus Christ. It's not hard. Thousands of movies come out every year without the awkward allegory.
>>78657006
>Then why is MOS just a lazy copy of Donner's shit dumbass? Nothing new whatsoever. Donner already did it and Goyer/Synder even plastered on Reeve's face on top of Cavill's in a scene.
"Man of Steel" has virtually no similarity to Donner's Superman, narratively or thematically so I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
>No it doesn't. Before MOS, Donner's shit was remembered extremely fondly by alot of people. It's the reason the public even gave a shit about the character and why we have a superhero movie genre today. That part wasn't great but it didn't ruin what was there and what's been allowed to grow now.
Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good. "The Avengers" is very popular and well regarded and it's narratively and thematically incoherent, baldy shot, badly edited, garbage that also ends with a deus ex machina. "Superman Returns" is, for all it's flaws, better than all the preceding films.
Donner's Superman has no narrative or thematic thread running through the film. It's four largely unconnected vignettes leading to an underwhelming climax. Lex Luthor is not an effective or interesting antagonist. Clark becoming Superman is completely glossed over with a montage of space images and a voice over from Marlon Brando. People complain about Clark only becoming Superman after Jor-El's pep-talk in "Man of Steel". In the 1978 Superman Clark doesn't become Superman until a magic glowing crystal compelles him to travel to the arctic and trow it in the water whereupon a magical ice palace grows out of the murky depths and then he spends 12 years being indoctrinated in to being Superman by his disembodied space god of a father. A compelling hero's journey it is not. The Donner film is disjointed, plodding and not very good.
>>78654668
The squid thing in Watchmen was a reference to an old epsiode of "The Outer Limits": "The Architects of Fear".
>>78657059
>, you'd find it more comparable to Byrne's Man of Steel, Earth One, and Birthright.
I don't think you understand why Brithright and Earth One worked. In fact, I think you only know those books exist because it was said that Man of Steel was based on them.
Yeah, Snyder cribbed from Birthright and Earth One, but he combined them in a way that misses their individual points.
>>78657197
However well or seamlessly you think Snyder melded those works together, MoS has far more common with them than it does with Donner's stuff (Because Zod was in it?).
>>78657169
So the campy Alan Moore story where he fights Mr Mxyptlk (specifically retconned to be literal edgelord or that story) isn't campy, and the on where he gets brain raped by a space plant isn't campy, and the Elseworlds where he's an evil dictator, those are serious stories.
But the one where he's got a week to live and has to get his house in order, THAT'S campy and silly.
That says more about you than I ever could.
>>78657180
>If you want a humanized protagonist that can't pull off miracles don't constantly parallel him to Jesus Christ. It's not hard. Thousands of movies come out every year without the awkward allegory.
That's why I used "The Last Temptation of Christ" as my example. The parallel works if Superman is a savior with great power who is nonetheless not a god or a paragon of virtue but a man with a divine destiny.
>>78657212
I'm not the anon saying Donner's movies arel ike Man of Steel. I'm an anon that really liked Birthright (and tolerates Earth One) and hates that people try and act like Man of Steel was inspired by those at all beyond the surface.
Birthright works because Clark wants to be a superhero in the open. Birthright works because he travels the earth CONNECTING to people. Earth One works because he doesn't and has to be forced into it. Earth One works because he hides. You can't combine the two so frivolously.
Also trying to define Superman by his tragedies misses the point entirely. Being defined by tragedy is Batman's deal. But what should I expect from a movie about the ubermensch that's so passive he has to be railroaded into every decision.
>>78657197
>Yeah, Snyder cribbed from Birthright and Earth One, but he combined them in a way that misses their individual points.
Goyer cribbed what was good from Birthright and wisely discarded the rest of that stupid, bland and cowardly garbage.
>>78657223
These stories treat every over one of these elements seriously; they are "serious Superman stories" as the original anon put it. If having over the top and fantastical elements makes something campy then MoS is campy, as well.
>>78657183
>"Man of Steel" has virtually no similarity to Donner's Superman, narratively or thematically so I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
>People complain about Clark only becoming Superman after Jor-El's pep-talk in "Man of Steel". In the 1978 Superman Clark doesn't become Superman until a magic glowing crystal compelles him to travel to the arctic and trow it in the water whereupon a magical ice palace grows out of the murky depths and then he spends 12 years being indoctrinated in to being Superman by his disembodied space god of a father.
So, you agree.
Hologram Jor-El, being pushed into being Superman, Lois naming Superman, being bullied by a trucker, etc. This is Donner shit, genius.
>>78657236
Doesn't work, because the thing about the Last Temptation of Christ is that it's one moment of doubt in an otherwise miraculous story (that i guess anons here would call campy and silly). It's not the entire story.
>>78657253
I notice you didn't actually cite specifics so that we'd all have to keep pretending like you actually read the book.
The Squid represents dehumanization and the way it was made and it's role on Comedian's turn of heart are very important.
Veidt put a lot of effort to make something so terrible that it wouldn't just force nations to work together, but also make them more human,as in making them honest about teaming up and not just doing it out of fear.
Only plebs don't get that and defend the movie.
>>78657251
>But what should I expect from a movie about the ubermensch that's so passive he has to be railroaded into every decision.
Expect Batman to teach him how to be a real hero in BVS. Because if Superman is an effective and capable hero he's perfect, never fails, has no faults, campy and lame. You're welcome.
>>78657266
Hologram Jor-El is something Donner made, that became part of the wider Superman mythos Post-Crisis, beginning with Byrne. Russel Crowe's Jor-El is actually a dead ringer for the Last Son version. Everything else, from some greater threat forcing Clark to become Superman, to Clark being bullied like he was in the Smallville show, comes from various comics. Lois didn't name Superman in MoS (the soldiers started calling him this) and Superman rarely ever comes up with the name himself, since calling himself "Superman" would make him look egotistical.
>>78657266
Those similarities are completely superficial. The actual narrative, characterization and themes are completely different.
In "Man of Steel" Clark is not pushed into being Superman, he's been Superman since he was a child. He's pushed into going public.
Lois doesn't name Superman, she never has time to publish anything and the Superman name comes form the military people on the ground. "The alien, sir. That's what they're calling him. Superman."
>>78657330
Case in point. Man of Steel was so bad they had to bring in Batman for the sequel to do damage control.
>>78657337
>Everything else, from some greater threat forcing Clark to become Superman, to Clark being bullied like he was in the Smallville show, comes from various comics.
Sure but most notably this happens in Donner's films. Synder and Goyer aren't really reading Superman comics and adapting them like >>78657251 said. MOS is like a checklist of Superman shit (like Perry and the Daily planet are non-characters who only purpose being there seems to be because they're on a check list) and important pages from good Superman stories that don't understand the context. But the foundation is Donner shit.
>>78657340
>The actual narrative, characterization and themes are completely different.
Explain.
>Lois doesn't name Superman
She was about to but got interrupted. Fuck off.
>>78657284
I did. The absolutely ridiculous hologram technology Luthor uses to fake a Kryptonian invasion is stupid and the reason for using it in the story is that Mark Waid is a cowardly storyteller that apparently wanted Superman to fight an alien invasion centered on Metropolis but didn't want to have to deal with the actual consequences of that. And Waids Krypton is the blandest most generic advanced alien civilization put to paper. There is nothing interesting about it at all. The entire beginning where Clark get's involved in the tribal conflict in Africa has no narrative or thematic importance for the rest of the story. I absolutely hate the Clark and Lex where friends in Smallville story that again doesn't actually bring anything to the narrative. And that are just some of my many problems with "Birthright". It is one of the most overrated pieces of shit I have ever had the misfortune of reading. There a few good scenes and ideas here and there. But on the whole it's a complete misifre. Mark Waid has never written a good superman story.
>>78657405
>Case in point. Man of Steel was so bad they had to bring in Batman for the sequel to do damage control.
No.
>>78657434
Oh, well, a random asshole on the internet said no. I guess that means something.
...Then again I guess there is also the fact that they desperately want a new cash cow of their very own.
>>78657426
>The entire beginning where Clark get's involved in the tribal conflict in Africa has no narrative or thematic importance for the rest of the story.
Ah, so you need things spelled out for you then.
>>78657412
>Synder and Goyer aren't really reading Superman comics and adapting them
Goyer has actually written comics, including Superman comics.
>Sure but most notably this happens in Donner's films
Because it's a film, and as dumb as it is, the most notable thing for casuals is always the adaptation. The most "notable" thing for Aquaman is his depiction in the Super Friends.
>>78657453
It means I am not jumping to unwarranted conclusions to support my own biases.
>>78656200
Ah, Man of Steel, my favorite movie about Christianity.
>>78657459
>Goyer has actually written comics, including Superman comics.
More like Johns has written comics that Goyer stuck his name on after the fact.
>>78657458
Please spell it out for me because I fail to see how it impacts the narrative or themes of the rest of the story.
>>78657459
>Goyer has actually written comics, including Superman comics.
Yes and he's also gone on the record about his disdain for the character. Someone like him isn't reading Superman comics and adapting them.
Read the last line to this picture >>78656375
Goyer is trying to redefine Superman and still his idea to do that was to mostly copy Donner shit and edgy it up.
Another "Man of Steel" argument raging on /co/. How suprising. Say what you want about "Man of Steel", it sure had an impact. Whether you love it or hate it, it certainly affects people.
>>78657532
It changed my view of the world as we know it, I am now born again.
>>78657495
Well at least you can admit it.
There's two reasons it's necessary, the first is location based and the second is character based. You should be smart enough to figure it out from there.
>>78657412
>On my planet, its a symbol for hope.
>Well here its an S-
>bitch no. It means hope.
>I am hope man.
>>78657504
Redefine Superman, which flies in the face of the idea that they were trying to redo Donner, for casuals. Superman killing Zod is nothing new to those who've read Byrne's run.
Nolan, look what you created. I hope you're happy.
Say what you want about the popcorn and cotton candy that Marvel is selling, at least they know how to have fun over there.
>>78657643
Upvote. I've been saying that for years about the Phantom Meance. The DCEU needs a Jar Jar Binks.
Or a dance off.
>>78657643
Of course he is, he created the single greatest capeshit trilogy and produced the greatest capeshit film of all time. The man is a genius and so is Snyder.
>>78656931
>Supes portrayed as the villain in his own movie
Yeah... that is why...
> He is shown saving people from a massive burning building as it collapses.
> About to save people from a flood.
> Saving the pilots from a rocket malfunction or sabotage.
> Alfred states clearly... "HE IS NOT OUR ENEMY"
>>78657683
The man is a big fish swimming in a small pond. But then again I thought the same about Moore.
Eh, what do I care. Most of them will be unwatchable but maybe one will be good.
>>78657732
>Most of them will be unwatchable but maybe one will be good.
How can you say that when none are out yet?
>>78657749
Because on top of most movies in general being unwatchable, these are superhero movies that are taking themselves seriously. Do the math.
Skepticism cutting both ways is one thing, but sooner or later you gotta learn about trends.
>>78657771
>these are superhero movies that are taking themselves seriously
But that is good thing, them taking themselves as jokes actually just makes them fucking jokes.
TDK was a dark epic crime thriller, it involving Superheroes does not diminish that on any level whatsoever.
>>78652866
>yfw Section 8 gets referenced in Suicide Squad
Is this argument still going? Well, I hope we can all at least agree that "Man of Steel" is better than all the bland mediocrity that has been produced for the MCU.
>>78658059
Well, /co/ will agree, because they're right. MCU only appeals to normies and retards, not to the patricians of our board.
>mfw I liked Man of Steel
>mfw I'm hyped for all the DCEU movies
>mfw when the opinion of a bunch of autists on the internet can't change that
Saying this now
MOS is better than a lot of MCU movies
Superman is not omnipotent as many wan't to believe, so people do die from his actions it's just he does not kill on purpose. Hell the best example is Hank Henshaw's group getting BTFO by Superman when supes was throwing a villain into space. Supes accidentally kills all of the time cause like an anon stated "Supes is a flying Brick" and it's true, hee can save many people the best he can, it's just like we do, we miss some to many.
but then again many casuals just see supes as being God and getting mad if he fucks up at all.
>>78658347
You are me , anon.
>>78658376
>MOS is better than a lot of MCU movies
maybe it's better than thor 2. maybe.
the rest are all definately better
>>78658513
>being this pleb
go back to reddit
>>78658513
and Iron man 3, and avengers age of ultron, and iron man 2 (sorta, that one is fun to get high to), and avengers one.
>>78658530
>a bloo bloo reddit
you sure did prove a point:you're wrong and deep down you know it, but you love sucking dc cock so much that you can't admit it
>>78658539
nope, not even close to these.
you just underestimate how bad mos really is.
>>78657495
1. Clark Kent is an attractive middle class white American. By having the scenes of Clark traveling the world be set in Africa and Asia, Birthright furthers the idea that Clark is in it to protect the ENTIRETY of humanity, not just support the troops praize jaysus middle America. Which, between marketing directly to churches with sermons and the Michael Bay tier military wanking both in the movie and its marketing, you can't really argue Man of Steel didn't do.
2. On a much more surface level, it furthers the idea that Clark is looking EVERYWHERE for answers to his origins. It's not really clear if he even leaves North America on his journey in MoS
3. There's dialogue in the first issue that helps set up the adoption of a costume, but not the mask. Pic related.
4. The conflict in Africa that he is a part of is one that, for all his powers, he can't do shit about. He tries, but arguably he even makes things worse. Much like killing Pa Kent via heart attack, It's a much more real and ore organic way to say that there's stuff a flying strongman can't solve than a single hand gesture and an out of nowhere tornado. In Birthright there's much more TRYING and the failure despite trying is more powerful than not trying at all.
>>78658550
No, I'm just pointing out the obvious.
>>78658561
The only good marvel movie is Iron Man, Cap 2, and GOTG. And MOS is better than the other marvel movies because it is rewatchable.
>>78658576
I also enjoyed Avengers and Cap 1, although I'd say MoS is about as good as those two.
>>78658576
MoS is not even watchable, let alone rewatchable.
>>78658837
>this is what assmad MCUcks actually believe
cry more.
>>78658837
What the fuck is wrong with you?, there is NOTHING, not a single fucking thing even remotely wrong with it on that level you blind fucking idiot.
The tornado scene is the worst the film has to offer and IT IS ONE SINGLE FUCKING SCENE out of a 2 hour movie.
>>78658852
yeah ok, it's totally not you who is mad because nobody liked MoS and it had like 50% on RT.
You know that Marvel movies are superior, just man up and accept the truth. shitposting on a japanese anime imageboard for 3 years is no way to live your life.
>>78658837
I found it watchable but boring enough that it took me two tries to get through it and I can't bring myself to care enough for a third viewing.
>>78658884
>implying RT makes any difference
0/10 you're just butthurt.
>>78658872
you are in deep denial son
>>78658896
it made a difference to your ass
![supa-hot-fire-gif-12564[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/7Nx17Xe.gif "supa-hot-fire-gif-12564[1].gif")
>>78658908
>>78658908
You can't even defend yourself properly anymore. How much of a butthurt redditor pleb can you be?
>>78658884
>because nobody liked MoS
161 FRESH
vs
128 ROTTEN (a 3rd of which at the very least where people with Biases against Snyder/DC and a serious toned take on Superman, and never ever were going to give it a fair review because the film was not made for them)
Yeah... NOBODY liked MOS. Right.
> You know that Marvel movies are superior, just man up and accept the truth
Yes... its a real show of manhood to accept that what appeals to mass idiot audiences with absolutely no taste or ability to identify quality is what makes a film good or not.
>>78658908
More like it made a difference to yours. You're butthurt over Man of Steel's greatness.
>>78655017
Cmon you are fine with Batman killing every other movie but you can't look past MoS?
>>78652866
Is it wrong that the only one of those movies I would like to see is Shazam?
>>78658901
Pic related is what I believe with all my heart, I have watched the film specifically looking for further flaws of note and their is not jack shit else wrong with it.
>>78658566
>support the troops praize jaysus middle America
>marketing directly to churches with sermons
>the Michael Bay tier military wanking both in the movie and its marketing,
Yeah smhtbh. It's funny that MCU Captain America is more of a global icon than DCEU Supes in their respective universes.
Superman was never all that much about muh flag-waving even during the WW2 years, he was used to inspire people to be good citizens in everyday life.
>>78658566
>and the Michael Bay tier military wanking both in the movie and its marketing, you can't really argue Man of Steel didn't do.
It did not fucking do so AT FUCKING ALL!
The military being present does not make it pro military.
> Superman THE MAIN CHARACTER is shown to not trust them and states he will not blindly follow them.
> The military hardware is present and looks cool... and pretty much all of it gets trashed badly.
> the idea that Clark is in it to protect the ENTIRETY of humanity, not just support the troops praize jaysus middle America
Yeah... because the entirely of humanity was not included in the 7-8 Billion people he saved twice in the film.
>>78656662
>It was boring as shit
This nails the film perfectly. I was tempted to switch off during the interminable super-science-dad segment at the start due to boredom. I kept watching it because it was Supes and actually considered switching it off several times during the remainder, especially during the extended US army advert in the middle. The only good thing I can find to say about it is the the last action sequence was pretty impressive looking albeit utterly soulless. For whatever it matters I'm a DCfag and my fave Supes is the triangle era. I was willing to give MOS the benefit of the doubt but it was just awful.
>>78658961
Those 161 are obviously paid reviews
>>78659178
So its fair to say you prefer the Superhero side of Superman to the sci-fi side?
So again... THE FILM WAS NOT FUCKING MADE FOR YOU, that does not make it bad.
> especially during the extended US army advert in the middle
Your mother fucking retarded. See... >>78659075
> albeit utterly soulless
Yep, so needed some jokes (sarcasm)
Oh boy,the capslock retard is here.
Better grab my popcorn
>if you like good movies,then mos os not for you
Superman fights a desperate battle to save the Earth, and nerds are like "Superman let those people die! He let them die!" Meanwhile, Finn in TFA doesn't tell anyone about the First Order's doomsday weapon that destroys Hosnian Prime. He unambiguously lets billions die, out of what is either cowardice or (being charitable here) idiocy. Likeable characters!
>>78659266
Yes, its restarted to spell things out for people who can not understand the concept of target audiences and confusing strong personal biases against what is being made with flaws or incompetence with the product.
>>78653336
All comments on Superman's morality aside, because I honestly don't care about it, the film as bad on a purely technical level.
It was badly paced, badly acted, and badly written. The dialogue was awkward and inhuman, the characters were paper-thin (so thin, in fact, that many people didn't realize the Daily Planet people were meant to be important), and above all else - the worst thing about this film - it was pretentious.
MoS is the definition of pretentious. It does everything it can to trick the audience into believing there is some deep character work or meaning at play, when in reality, the film is just barely shallow. It pimps out the legend of Superman with sweeping orchestral melodies and trite dialogue about destiny and meaning and other such shit, but it never actually shows you WHY Superman is a legend. It never earns its own sense of self-importance. It's complete drivel.
>>78659075
First off, dial down your mad enough so that you may learn something.
Second, you notice there's a reason I said it was both in the movie *and marketing*? Pic fucking related. This is not a shop, this is not a hoax, this is an ACTUAL AD that they used to promote this movie. Not even Transformers has done this. There is no more blatant shit than this.
Third, I'm not denying Clark doesn't save all of humanity in the abstract. That >muh seven billion shit is irrelevant to the discussion because yeah, while he saves the entirety of the human race in the ABSTRACT, all the characters he identifies with and connects with and even saves on camera are are very much what politicians in swing states refer to as "real americans; blue to white collar predominately white in industries with lots of money like oil.
Maybe if Clark actually went to a non western first world country and helped people there for five minutes you guys wouldn't have to make up bullshit about how Jonathan goes to save the dog because it's a lesser life form like humans are to clark.
>>78659245
Hello angry fellow! Why on earth are you getting so worked up about this? Doesn't seem too healthy.
>THE FILM WAS NOT FUCKING MADE FOR YOU
I'd imagine it was made for a general audience that enjoyed those terrible Nolan Batman films rather than a sci-fi audience. I like sci-fi as much as the next guy but MOS as just poorly conceived.
>Your mother fucking retarded. See... >>78659075
The US army allows free access for films to it's equipment and personnel. The upside for this for filmmakers is that it's free and the upside for the army is it's an advert. They don't allow this free access if they're shown in a bad light. This whole section of the film stood out like a sore thumb to me and was not motivated by artistic concerns. You'd have to be stunningly naive to think otherwise.
>Yep, so needed some jokes (sarcasm)
I didn't say that it needed jokes but the film seemed totally empty to me. It had no humanity.
>>78659245
>(sarcasm)
Ha ha ha oh wow
>>78659245
Good sci-fi films generally have a powerful human element to them that contextualizes and gives meaning to the incredible technologies and wonders of the genre. 2001 is a great sci-fi film. Ex Machina is a good sci-fi film.
MoS is a generic blockbuster action film with characters thinner than shadow and a fatal reliance upon per-established audience knowledge/attachment over things like character development, pacing, dialogue, etc.
>>78659363
>but it never actually shows you WHY Superman is a legend
He isn't a legend yet, this is foreshadowing his potential.
He saves 7-8 Billion people twice on his first day of being Superman, that is a damn good reason WHY.
>>78659374
There are jokes in the movie. Superman slams into a DAYS WITHOUT AN ACCIDENT sign, and it flips back to zero. And of course there's the drone joke at the end.
Superman The Movie features both a big ol' rape joke and Lois Lane being slowly crushed to death.
>>78659374
>The US army allows free access for films to it's equipment and personnel.
Not freely. You gotta rent that shit. And even before that you gotta contact OCPA-West, and send them your credentials. If you make the army look bad enough they have the right to say "no you can't use our shit".
>>78659373
>There is no more blatant shit than this.
And there is nothing fucking wrong with it.
>Maybe if Clark actually went to a non western first world country and helped people there for five minutes
He will be doing so in bvs, this is his origin and he is a American character, fuck off back to tumblr you piece of shit.
>>78659373
>Maybe if Clark actually went to a non western first world country and helped people there for five minutes
He literally does this when he chooses India over Metropolis to stop the weapon there first.
The Avengers never do this.
>>78659440
>And there is nothing fucking wrong with it.
So first it didn't happen, and now there's nothing wrong with it when it's proven that it did happen. That's some expert backpedaling.
>He will be doing so in bvs,
Damage Control: The Movie? Pass.
>this is his origin
If you were capable of something other than capslock and piles of salt you might realize that Birthright was also an origin story that had no problem having him travel the ACTUAL globe and that we were discussing the purpose and benefits of him doing so.
>and he is a American character,
Oh, so NOW the whole truth justice and american way thing ISN'T campy, because it suits your argument
>fuck off back to tumblr you piece of shit.
You first. Captain (Sarcasm)/
>>78654668
>but you really think Moscow, when already that close to the edge of nuclear war, will believe that this American agent that fought for them in Vietnam is that far off the reservation? That even if he did blow shit up in America, that it isn't somehow a plot?
Yeah, the US would totally blow up its own cities just to trick the Russians into... not blowing up its cities?
>>78659001
I fully agree with this, except that I don't see quips as something positive or negative.
>>78659456
>He literally does this when he chooses India
The ocean around it maybe. And the sad thing is that the movie would've actually been better thematically had he gone after the one in Metropolis first.
>>78659456
>The Avengers never do this.
1. Who gives a shit about the Avengers? Why can't anyone ever defend this movie intelligently without comparisons to Marvel?
2. Squatistan in age of ultron was third world as fuck. Not to mention the first MCU hero we get is one going into the middle east for his first major outing.
>>78659484
Ozymandias' original plan was doomed to fail in the long run because the other enemy doesn't actually exist. They're just redefining the crisis against an Other. Snyder just saw it in metaphorical, not tactical terms. He reinterpreted in light of the War on Terror, where all the nations of the world put aside their differences to fight perceived outsiders. Dr. Manhattan was a former US weapon, just like the Afghan Mujahideen!
>>78659374
>I'd imagine it was made for a general audience that enjoyed those terrible Nolan Batman films rather than a sci-fi audience
It was made for both far more then it was made for campy generic super heroic fans like you who confused it not catering to you as a flaw.
> This whole section of the film stood out like a sore thumb to me
What whole section? There was NO real amount of time we spend with the military characters at all, your fucking lying.
The most we see at one time is the A-10s being badass and then getting torn apart along with soldiers on the ground being slaughtered, what the fuck is wrong with you? How the fucking hell is that a recruitment ad?
Once again your being blisteringly fucking bias in your irrationality against the military being present in a ALIEN INVASION story.
> the film seemed totally empty to me. It had no humanity.
Aka I don't have a argument so I am gonna make up bullshit.
>>78659531
It's actually pretty thematically explicit. The film basically ends when Superman blows up the 'third world' polluting machine.
It's difficult to accept, but people die not because Superman failed to save them, but because Krypton was - all along - using them as human shields.
Not coincidentally, that's precisely what Tony Stark has failed to realize for like six films now. So his character - and, accordingly, the entire MCU - is stuck in a holding pattern. 11 films in, Stark is still fighting for a 'final solution' to all conflict so that 'we can all go home'.
>>78659001
>mature serious mythical scifi epic
I have never seen a more blatant attempt at stringing together words without a care for their meaning in an attempt to sound smart before. And I majored in English Lit.
>>78659417
You're confusing in-universe reasoning with narrative reasoning.
The point is that the film is hollow. Rather that providing a nuanced character that the audience likes and relates to and engages with as they struggle against the odds, it relies entirely upon the existing idea of who Superman is. It toots its own horn constantly while never actually giving us a cast of good characters to root for.
There is no engagement with the film beyond a superficial "whoa that was pretty cool" level. There is no depth - there's less depth that even your average by-the-books action flick. And what's worse, the film PRETENDS to have depth. Every other line of trite fucking dialogue is about destinyyyyyyy or puuuurpose and in total all it really amounts to is a constant wink at the audience, like the film's saying "hey, hey, hey dudes, did you know this is a Superman film and Superman's kinda a big deal? Did you know that?"
The film doesn't bother actually including anything you need for a good, engaging story. It just reminds you constantly that SUPERMAN IS IMPORTANT in the most ham-handed, tedious ways possible.
>>78659408
Not the fucking point, he said he was already wanting to leave because the opening was too science fiction oriented for him personally that means he has a bias against what the film set out to be.
>>78659374
>the film seemed totally empty to me. It had no humanity.
It's weird that you're proudly proclaiming your inability to empathize.
>>78659547
I find it hilarious how you keep screaming about bias and pretending like you're somehow exempt from that.
I wish the fedora meme weren't so played out because fuck if you aren't demanding its use.
>>78657796
But TDKR was absolute trash. It being edgy doesn't make it better and can in fact just make it cringey instead.
>>78659001
>Faora
>good
Hah.
Bitch was so stupid she had me groaning at how much better she could've been. Her fucking retarded fight dialogue actually caused me to cringe... and was fucking retarded considering her perspective, she literally argued against herself.
>>78659555
>It's actually pretty thematically explicit
For the unnecessary green message, yes. But not for anything actually relating to the characters or their arcs. The movie spends a lot of time waxing poetically about how Clark will be a symbol for hope and good but his biggest act to altruism and the only one he ever seems to struggle to pull off and not only are there no witnesses to it, it's done in such a way that it only saves anyone in the abstract long term, and none of the supporting cast that we're supposed to be giving a shit about and who exist pretty much solely to humanize the destruction.
>>78659480
>So first it didn't happen, and now there's nothing wrong with it when it's proven that it did happen. That's some expert backpedaling.
No, I said it did not happen within the film and its story, I don't give a fuck if it happens outside the film.
> Oh, so NOW the whole truth justice and american way thing ISN'T campy, because it suits your argument
I don't know who your referring to, but I never thought that was campy as long as he isn't basically singing it out loud.
>>78659492
>I fully agree with this, except that I don't see quips as something positive or negative.
Thanks for your support and fair enough.
>>78659573
>Not the fucking point,
It's a pretty good point. Man of Steel has a real problem with contextualizing its set pieces. That's why you have to keep going "HE SAVED SEVEN BILLION".
The sad truth is that audiences don't give a shit about seven billion nameless faceless background props. They give a shit about the ONE named character that the movie has put effort into getting us to care about. People die every day, even en masse nowadays. But the world keeps spinning for you, until it's someone YOU know. That's how compartmentalization and coping works.
You can spent the rest of the year whining about how he saved seven billion but that won't make it any less of a statistic.
>>78659558
The film has weight and consequence and it has a pessimistic look on the world and its people hence it is mature and serious.
Its mythical and epic in relation to the sense of scope and scale the film and events has.
>>78659663
It's really weird to see people writing, like, "oh yeah, I saw that movie three years ago. I wasn't really paying attention, so I don't remember much, but it seemed boring. BTW here's my lengthy, unresearched manifesto about how there's no such thing as language."
