Yo /ck young cook here
Mother always fucks up the turkey so im cooking it this year so I was wondering if brining is wise or not.
>>7102680
Depends on how she fucks it up. Brining is a nice cushion against overcooking, so if her turkey is always dry and overcooked it could help. Other problems like undercooking, improper thawing, wrong heat in the oven, etc--won't help at all.
>>7102680
You can skip it if you use a thermometer and know you're the one cooking and aren't gonna over cook it.
>>7102702
My mother always thaws the bird by leaving it to sit at room temperature for 24 hours before she cooks it, then she over cooks it drying it out like a desert. I take one bite and start choking like I'm being strangled.
>>7103142
You sound like an ungrateful little shit.
But yes, brining would help in your situation.
>>7102680
just fry that bitch
>>7102680
Have you guys ever tried baking the turkey with mud crust or salt crust?
Mud crust especially would be ideal for Turkey, which is sensitive to lose moisture. You first need to get some giant lotus leaves (this is a Chinese recipe, or mustard leaves whish should be easier to get in US, or any big edible leave really for isolating the bird from mud).
You put your stuffing in the turkey. Then you wrap herbs in and on around the turkey. Then you wrap the entire thing in leaves. And you cake the entire bundle with mud.
Then you bake it at medium low heat for several hours.
Mud cake poultry is THE best way to cook the bird to tenderness and melt all the gelatin without drying the bird out. There are no substitutions. I really don't get why people "brine" bird. First, it makes no scientific sense, since osmosis would draw out all the moisture in the turkey cells. Second, it's bloody salt water soaked bird, just how appetitizing do you think that is? It's disgusting.
Learn to use mud/salt cake when cooking poultry. It will change your life!
This is a picture of a finished mud poultry product:
http://www.cngytt.com/jiangxilvyou/meishi/2012_art_4351.html
They wrapped it in clay.
Have done a brine for the past 5-6 years now and it's always come out better that way for me.
Gonna try a spatchcock this year.
>>7103194
The thick clay crust basically steams the entire bird inside out. Even the bones will melt after cooking.
>>7103194
I think I'm gonna not rub mud all over my thanksgiving turkey as per the advice of some anonymous poster on a taiwanese robot depot
>>7103194
If you can't find leaves you can always use aluminum foil.
>>First, it makes no scientific sense, since osmosis would draw out all the moisture in the turkey cells
Nope. Go read up on brining. I suggest either Modernist Cuisine or On Food and Cooking by McGee.
>> just how appetitizing do you think that is? It's disgusting.
It's no more or less disgusting than encasing it in mud.
>>7103203
Then use salt and egg crust. You don't have to get clay. Since it's not that easy to get anyways. And the clay/mud is not in direct contact with the bird.
>>7103205
Water will always move to a lower gradient. That's just physics. Unless your brine is exactly the same osmolarity as the cellular fluid, the water will move out.
>>7103159
>You sound like an ungrateful little shit.
There's always one momma's boy or girl in the lot to come in with that one line.
Fuck off people have a right to criticize their own mothers.
because turkey is so big, it is almost impossible to get an even temperature across the whole of the breast, let alone the whole bird itself, without very low temperature cooking methods. this will result in it drying out somewhat, and brining will mitigate this. brining also makes the texture a bit hammy though.
>>7103194
>I really don't get why people "brine" bird. First, it makes no scientific sense, since osmosis would draw out all the moisture in the turkey cells
it would draw the moisture out to equilibrium, not take ALL the moisture - but the presence of the salt in the turkey also causes it to *retain* moisture as it's cooked.
>Second, it's bloody salt water soaked bird, just how appetitizing do you think that is? It's disgusting.
if you taste the results side by side i don't think you'll say the same thing, you want moisture in your bird. turkey drippings are proteiny minerally fatty water anyway, nothing is inherently disgusting about salty water in your food.
>>7103230
Always salt crusted or mud crusted my Turkey, depending on material availability. Never soaked it in disgusting salt water first.
Judging by all the difficulties to bake a good turkey even after soaking it. I say your brining method is infinitely inferior to the crusting method.
Alternatively, you can also steam the Turkey first. Then broil it to form a crunchy crust right before serving.
What's you people's obsession with a clearly inferior cooking method? Ah, because you grew up with it...
>>7103211
Nope. In osmosis, water goes from hypothonic to hyperthonic environment, it will get into the turkey cells, not out. Not sure if trolling or too stupid for 6th grade science class.
I don't know why more people don't just segment the turkey and cook it. Bullshit ideals about tradition? Presentation? Either way opening the turkey out and cooking it results in an evenly cooked and in my opinion more moist meat.
>>7103246
or maybe I just don't wanna play fucking Bob the builder with all that mud in my kitchen
>>7103246
I don't get what's your obsession with eating a dirt covered turkey and failing to grasp the meaning of osmosis but whatever weeb.
>>7103247
Can't even spell "hypertonic" and "hypotonic" right and calls me a 6th grader?
Also only people with 6th grade or lower education in physics and chemistry explains osmosis in the term of toxicity.
It's about gradient bitch. Read my post again and stop misunderstand a concept you clearly are not familiar with nor have any sensible understanding.
>>7103256
You wrap the bird in leaves first, or foil like someone else mentioned. The clay is basically porcelain like after baking. It doesn't run everywhere. You can break it open like an egg shell.
>>7103247
the brine is the hypertonic environment in this example are you dumb boy. osmosis is not what makes brined birds moist, not directly anyway. the salt that is drawn into the bird is what causes it. it effectively creates a brine within the turkey itself.
>>7103246
>Judging by all the difficulties to bake a good turkey even after soaking it. I say your brining method is infinitely inferior to the crusting method.
they each have pros and cons and in fact you could do both with good results. i prefer the surface of my turkey to be exposed to dry bulb temperatures so it can form a pellicle. salt baked meats are very nice but they aren't what i think of when i think thanksgiving.
>>7103258
tonicity**
opps
>>7103262
Brining a turkey is the exact method as making brined salmon. A brined piece of salmon is reduced in volume due to loss of water.
There is no physics backing brining making turkey moist claim.
If you salt crust or mud crust the bird, it's a fool proof way of making a moist and tender bird without any effort at all. Because there's no where for the steam to escape, there's no where for flavor to escape. If you wrap the bird with herb in the crust, all the flavors are going to get steamed into the meat.
None of you ever tried cooking with salt crust or mud crust yet cling to your inferior salt water soaking technique for no reason. If you feel offended or feel that slight discomfort in your gut while making this argument, you are a victim of tradition and victim of ignorance.
>>7103270
Also corn husk is very easy to get. Just use that to wrap your bird. It also gives a mild sugary flavor to the meat after baking. So it's pretty nice substitute.
Ziploc oven bags
Cut the back out, remove legs and cook them separate. You can put it all back together on the plate and it looks like a whole turkey but it won't be dry.
>>7103270
Crusting method is very true. This is why in French cooking when you want to cook a delicate meat, such as small game meat or fish. You use salt crust. It completely seals the meat inside an almost impermeable barrier thus retaining all the flavor and moisture.
If brine method really works, you'd see them used to cook fish and other small poultry as well. But you don't.
>>7103270
>Brining a turkey is the exact method as making brined salmon. A brined piece of salmon is reduced in volume due to loss of water.
talking about volume here is plainly misleading and also just wrong - meat does swell within a brine. this is because of what the salt does within the meat as it diffuses. to quote modernist cuisine:
>Chloride ions, from dissolved salt, diffuse into muscle fibers and accumulate along the surface of protein filaments. As these ions increase in number, they generate a negative charge that loosens and pushes neighboring filaments apart -- analogous to the way magnets with the same polarization repel each other. The charged filaments push far enough apart that they cause the muscle fibers to swell -- if water is available to fill the space opened up in the process.
it's hilarious but also frustrating that you think i'm advocating it because i grew up with it. this could not be further from the truth. the rest of your post is full of very scientifically weak assertions. a turkey that steams in its own juices will still lose moisture, as that is what was required to create the steam - it will not all reabsorb. all cooked meats will lose moisture. however, brined birds will lose less - so will steamed ones, not knocking your method here - and this is why people do it. the common conception that osmosis is the key factor is wrong, but the results are indisputable.
>None of you ever tried cooking with salt crust or mud crust yet cling to your inferior salt water soaking technique for no reason.
you're quoting a post in which i talk about my experiences with clay and salt crusted meats. stop being a stick in the mud.
>>7103288
>If brine method really works, you'd see them used to cook fish and other small poultry as well. But you don't.
yes you do. people brine and salt all kinds of poultry and fish. they do it with other meats as well. they even do it with vegetables. with cheeses. brining is a very common method for distributing seasoning and changing the water retention properties of foods.
>>7103294
Name one faggot.
>>7103296
name one what? ingredient? salmon. cod. grouse. lamb.
>>7103306
none of them are used for making the meat "moist"
>>7103310
yes they are. they have other benefits, but one of the key ones is moisture retention.
>>7103323
Back to square one, circular argument is circular.
Anyways, keep soaking your food in salt water and refuse to try anything else. You are a true ignoramus American. which in this time of the year, is pretty tradition to be honest.
https://youtu.be/I93nany8nQI?t=41
>>7103336
>Back to square one, circular argument is circular.
explain the circular pathway of my reasoning.
>Anyways, keep soaking your food in salt water and refuse to try anything else
i've told you three times now, i have tried both you enormous cunt, and i'm not american.
>>7103370
Dude it's just some weeb who saw some asians doing this and now believes it's superior. You're not gonna win he's just gonna keep being retarded
>>7103336
2/10
>>7103400
French cooking also uses a lot of salt crust for fish and game birds. Your argument is invalid.
Again, your dislike for the crusting method is simply visceral, just look at your personal insults, and that visceral reaction shows that you are indeed an ignoramus.
If you don't want to ruin your big turkey, try it with a cheap chicken first.
>>7103296
God damn you're retarded
>>7103433
Sounds like you only have insults for the poster rather than the cooking method the said poster suggested.
It pretty much shows you are the retard and close minded ignoramus.
>>7103659
haha fucking americans they are all like that.
Salt is a desiccant.
It will draw some moisture from whatever it is encrusting. Whether more or less than a brine would depend on a lot of things, but I think the effects of both methods in that regard would be minor in most cases until getting into an intentional curing process.
I think salt crusting is used more due to the wow factor in presentation.
Personally, I don't like either for turkey, but some people do.
I like a really crisp skin. Salt crusting would defeat that, and who is going to waste that much salt and egg for a whole turkey?
>>7103174
The turkey or his mom?
>>7102680
it is wise.
I use TWO probe thermometers, one in each breast, because paranoia.
I crisp the skin at 500 deg for 30 mins and then foil the breasts and lower the temp to 350 for the rest of the cook.
Yes Alton Brown method. No it hasn't been beaten yet. 5,127 reviews averaging 5 stars don't lie.
>>7102680
OP, use a speckleware/graniteware roaster with lid. And, a thermometer.
Also, the BEST turkey is fresh turkey, not frozen. If you have never cooked a turkey, you do need to start thawing it 4 days ahead, so get busy tomorrow if you're going that route.
It's more expensive, but a fresh turkey is simply more tender and juicy. Your market should have both, and the fresh is also frozen-ish, just not sub-zero in a rock had way (that causes it to dry out later).
I prep any turkey the same, esp fresh. I give it a wash, both cavities, and a bit under the loose skin (make sure you get out the packet of parts), pat dry. Then rub down with lemon juice, all over. Let it come to room temp about an hour with the lemon juice, touch of olive oil, and liberal salt and pepper. (Use poultry seasoning if you don't do stuffing with sage). Place into roaster bottom and 400F til starting to brown, add about 1/4in of water when juices start to render, to make sure they don't burn in the bottom. Lid on, reduce to 350 and then it's like 15mins per pound of the bird. Check for doneness with instant read thermometer, or a wiggle of the leg joint, and I might leave lid on when it comes out another 30 mins to cool a bit, work on my sides and such. Then remove to cutting board to cool further (for carving). And, to the pan, I'll do the roux or flour, and use a burner to ladle up the drippings from the sides of the pan (speckleware has lots of browned goodness up the sides). I might splash in a bit of wine.
In alternate years, I do a little lime and garlic, kind of cuban style to my rubdown, depends which citrus tree is going strong in the yard. It's really a minor difference to the final flavors, which is really traditional regardless.
>>7104135
They make them for various sizes, but this is my thanksgiving range 12-15lb.
http://graniteware.com/product/covered-oval-roaster-2/
Just drop it in a turkey fryer you commie fuck
>>7103659
I mean you are retarded to say no one brines any fish/poultry. Smoked salmon/trout is often brined. Southern fried chicken is often brined in buttermilk. Spics brine fajita chicken. Redneck hunters brine duck. Brine shrimp ceviche happens. Like you could just google brine and any poultry or fish and shit would come up. Idk why you're being so stubborn on this shit.
Gdi I feel retarded taking this asp so serious when this is a turkey thread not all about brining. I don't even brine my turkey cause I just don't overcook it. I only think it's really necessary if you're slow smoking a turkey.
>>7104098
Agreed. Have had several people over the years say it's the best turkey they ever had with this method. Also even a basic brine helps a ton.
You guys can forgo the brining and just bard the turkey. I recommend saltpork over something like bacon. The oldschool and very effective way to baste the turkey throughout the cooking process.
Try spatchcocking the turkey before roasting
Try dry brining as opposed to wet brining
Try google or seriouseats for actual information
How long can i brine a turkey at room temp safely? Willbits salty brine keep germs away for 2 days?
>>7104350
They dont want to. They want to continue soak their turkey in salt water for 2 days and call that good enough.
>>7104363
>Try google or seriouseats for actual information
I read the serious eats article on brining yesterday and I highly recommend it to everyone. There is a lot of misinformation about how brining works and they actually test several different methods and their effectiveness. Their results are counterintuitive.
This is obviously anecdotal, but I've used Alton's recipe on several occasions with great success. But when I brined the turkey for my dad it still came out dry as fuck because he overcooked it. I think the aluminum foil triangle may be the most effective part of his recipe. By the time the dark meat is done the breast is typically destroyed. Reflecting some of the radiant away from the breast seems to allow you to keep the breast from overcooking by the time the dark meat is done. You could also cut up your turkey and pull the breast when it's perfect if you don't care about presenting a whole bird. But simply not overcooking it seems to be much more effective than any brine
>>7103199
Spatchcock and dry brining is stupidly easy and cooks the bird so goddamn fast, and with none of the mess and hassle of having a hugefuck container of flavored water sitting around.
I look back on my childhood, when my mother would roast a turkey for five - six hours, and laugh. Christ, I can cook a twenty pound turkey in two hours nowadays.
>>7104135
>15 minutes per pound
So literally five hours for a twenty pound turkey. Fuck, man, I hope you're joking.
>>7104531
That's why turkey gets fucking dry.
Use a damn foil wrap the thing up, or pre steam it, or fucking use a salt crust.
>>7104548
what's the best way to do a foil wrap method? Personally I like the skin, and I do like it a bit browned so would I be able to steam it in foil followed by a broil for the last few minutes to get the skin that golden color?
>>7103249
Kek
>>7103292
>Chloride ions, from dissolved salt, diffuse into muscle fibers and accumulate along the surface of protein filaments. As these ions increase in number, they generate a negative charge that loosens and pushes neighboring filaments apart -- analogous to the way magnets with the same polarization repel each other. The charged filaments push far enough apart that they cause the muscle fibers to swell -- if water is available to fill the space opened up in the process.
That is so fucking wrong brosience it hurts.
Not talking about the effect, idk about how brine works to be honest, but the guy who wrote this explanation probably also believes in a hollow earth and reptile government conspiracies.
>>7105078
oh jesus I didn't even read that. But wow.. holy crap. HAHAHA wow... people's belief in soaking bird in salt water is borderlining on believing in unicorns.
I think Putin has some ideas about a turkey roast of his own.
As long as you use a fresh turkey and don't over cook it, you'll be fine. Brining is unnecessary
>>7103142
>My mother always thaws the bird by leaving it to sit at room temperature for 24 hours before she cooks it
your problem isn't an overcooked bird, your bigger problem is your mom systematically trying to kill you all at the holidays. she's tired of your shit anon. stop bitching at her about the dry bird and she might stop trying to kill you. shit.
>>7103194
>Then you wrap the entire thing in leaves. And you cake the entire bundle with mud.
>mud
welcome to the 20th century, Turkey
>>7105369
I don't "bitch" at my mother, or about her cooking to her face. I told her I am willing to cook the food this year and that is enough, because she is lazy and complains about how she wears herself out every year trying to cook for us. As for her "trying to kill" us all, she is just a really careless backwoods person with really bad hygiene problems to boot.
>>7102680
my mom doesn't cook. we pretty much order boston market for thanksgiving. i may or may not have mommy issues about it.
>my mother in law wants to cook the turkey in a bag
>mom is decent cook
>makes a whole turkey, giblet gravy, mashed potatoes
>it's well prepared, decent portions
>turkey is moist, cooked all the way
>it's so fucking boring
>it's so goddamned boring
>it's like a basic paste of a meal every year
>pass the paste potatoes #14405
>pass the McCormic flavored gravy #15066
>turkey #56071 is good this year
makes me want to go to alcoholics general
>>7107861
blue board, mate.
>>7107878
yeah posted wrong gif lel
>>7102680
brine the fuck out of it op, it's so goddamn moist you'll shit
I got a parted turkey in brine on the porch right now. Gonna put some butter under the skin and sit it up above the stuffing.
Gravy is all ready made.
>>7109873
How on earth are you making the gravy without the drippings from roasting the turkey?
>>7109888
The giblets, neck and back. Roast them and boom shakalaka.
>>7103142
You aren't supposed to leave poultry at room temp that long. You are either supposed to thaw it in water that you cange out periodically or leave it in the fridge for a few days to thaw.
Enjoy your bacteria
>>7107210
>my mom doesn't cook.
I was never breast fed. So fucking what?
>itt people who don't know how to cook a turkey
I cook turkey every year without brining and it comes out great. Flavorful and juicy, it proverbially melts in your mouth.
>>7102680
YES brine. but the important thing is to cook it BREAST SIDE DOWN. that will make sure juices run down to the breast to make it moist. just flip it over in the last little bit to properly brown the skin. also instead of doing a traditional stuffing consider stuffing it with an italian meatball mixture. because fuck bread/carbs. meat in meat is where it's at. also moist and juicy
>>7111562
one other point that is critical:
REST THE TURKEY FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME YOU COOK IT.
i'm not fucking shitting about this part. it's very important to rest the bird thoroughly to allow the juices to get absorbed back into the meat and not wind up on your cutting board/platter.
>>7111567
Come on- same amount? You don't mean that.
>>7103194
>putting mud on your turkey
check this guy out
>>7111552
>people cook turkey differently than me, therefore they don't know how to cook
I think you refusing to try this method bc muh ego means YOU don't know how to cook, anon
Ok so I found out pretty much last minute that if I didn't cook for thanksgiving no one was so I ran out yesterday and picked up a turkey breast. I'm fine doing some basic sides I've cooked all of that shit before but I have never in my life done the turkey and I'm worried I'll mess it up.
So last night before bed I put the turkey in the fridge to brine in a basic light brown sugar/ salt thing I found online. I plan on mixing some butter and herbs and rubbing that shit under the skin and all over the breast. One of my friends told me to cook it at 325 covered in foil for 2/3 of the cook time and then uncover and baste it every 30 minutes till its done. Will that make it good? Do I baste it in whatever juices it sweats out or do I pour some chicken broth in there? I'm lost the Internet has a lot of different recipes I just don't want to fuck it up for my first time.
Here's a pro tip for you guys
Fuck traditional stuffing which is dry as shit.
Put a citrus fruit of some kind in the bird instead.
Jam it in.
Clementines are great, use bloody apricots if you want even. You get the picture.
One way trip to flavour town.
>>7111567
>REST THE TURKEY FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME YOU COOK IT
Go to sleep, Gordon.
>>7105381
I used an oven bag for the first time this year (other than for brining because I don't have a big bucket) and it actually worked incredibly well. I don't see any reports of it changing flavor and I ended up finishing my turkey an hour early. Foil probably helped too.
>>7107872
Make something different. I've built a home smoker before and made cajun injected turkies, done different glazes, done all sorts of sides.
>>7112265
Don't worry about basting - just rub the skin with oil before you roast. The really important part is that you avoid overcooking the meat, turkey dries out really fast, so pull the turkey out of the oven as soon as it hits 160 degrees, it will finish reaching 165 while you let it rest.
>>7110711
Turkeys are a lot cleaner animals than chickens. You can actually brine turkies at room temp for a days on end.
>>7103142
>My mother always thaws the bird by leaving it to sit at room temperature for 24 hours before she cooks it
Triggered
I hope you get diarrhea dude
>>7111567
>REST THE TURKEY FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME YOU COOK IT.
So rest it for 2-3 hrs? I think it would be cold by then retard
