In light of the recent wave of well known Lolitas quitting, I've been thinking a lot about the subject. In almost every instance I've seen of this occurring over my 9 years in the fashion, it is usually someone deciding lolitas are awful and they can't deal with the community, even if the vast majority of attention they get is positive and they don't actually get any severe hate. Often times they also quit the fashion, while simultaneously saying how much they wish they could still wear it and some have said they were "forced" to stop wearing it because of the negativity.
I don't really understand this, if you truly love Lolita, but can't deal with the community, then why not quit the community but still wear it? Unless it was mostly an attention thing? What do you guys think about this phenomenon? Experiences with people doing it?
>>8718859
Your last bit is something that has perplexed me for years, and has led me to believe that anyone who quits under those circumstances never really loved the fashion that much anyway, and mostly wore it for attention. I mean, it doesn't add up. You wouldn't stop wearing sweaters just because a few people who wear them are awful, it shouldn't be any different.
There must be hundreds of Lolitas who either withdrew from communities or chose not to join them, but who enjoy the fashion as much as anyone else.
>>8718859
people are sensitive. a couple of death threats and "ew ur ugly" messages and its time to leave. keep in mind alot of lolitas have never experienced any type of hate constantly being to sent them. they dont know how to deal with it, instead of dealing with it they would rather quit everything all together.
if you ask me though, if you would leave an entire fashion just because a couple of trolls your love for the fashion wasnt very strong to begin with.
>>8718872
Death threats are different than what I'm talking about, I totally get someone leaving the community based on that. I was more talking about people who can't take any criticism, no matter how legit.
>>8718908
Because like you said, they are usually well known lolitas. Unless you're an attention whore, people dont tend to know who you are or care who you are. That is why they are so quick to sell off tgeir wardrobes and leave when they arent getting enough asspats anymore.
The thing that bothered me a lot was the HL MTO recently. Lolitas started messaging me on FB asking if I was going to get it. We're going to have 30+ lolitas wearing HL come March.
It has left me jaded. I don't like HL and the dress would not be able to fit my body.
>>8718859
who left? i havent been online for a while
>>8718926
Why does it bother you? I don't understand.
>>8718927
Girlyhoot quit the western lolita comms, Pixielocks left for larme, and Milkyfawn switched to otome(?) I think those are the big ones. Anyone else?
>>8718927
tl;dr version is Kate couldn't take people telling her that the $1000 disabled Persian kitten she bought in Japan is going to most likely die on the 18+ hour plane ride back, so she declared her departure from Lolita, in which she denounced the entire Western comm as awful people and Cadney, Jillian, and some popular friend of Kate's I never heard of before are all leaving too now and giving her asspats galore. I guess Jillian was just taking a break before, but is now not coming back. It's pretty hilarious, you should check out the Kate thread on lolcow for the details since we don't want to derail this into a Kate thread.
I left because I don't want to associate with the shitty people in the group. Not the 'bullies and meanies' but the fame whores, itas and replica wearing poorfag/fatties. Lolita has always been a sort of drama filled attention seeking group and that's usually been fine. But with this kawaii ambassador shit it's brought out the worst in people. I don't wanna be associated with living dolls, reality TV or the band of misako asslickers or anything like that, so I left. It feels good though, so much drama is real drama and not just petty garbage, with people like Kate and John causing such a stink it makes me feel like my choice is validated. I do have some things I still wear from time to time, I help out in coord threads and even with auctions. It's just not a part of me like it used to be though, not because of my local community either, I hope you guys understand.
>>8718967
I just hate the way some people think of lolita as being 'totally classy'. It's really one of the least classy things ever, even with the afternoon teas and art galleries. It got embarrassing to be associated with.
>>8718961
Cadney has not said anything about leaving and Jillian left months ago and has been selling her stuff. At least read the thread on lolcow before trying to act like you have info.
I've been thinking about leaving
>not making enough money
>haven't bought lolita in 6 months
>comm is full of itas and noobs
>decreasing interest in meets
>only reasonable to wear lolita for 4 months out of the year because of the climate
>can't wear to work or college
>not going to wear it running errands
>depression hitting fast
>losing interest in showering/eating let alone coording
I love my wardrobe and don't want to sell it, but it doesn't make sense for it to just sit in my closet. I rarely do anything with it anymore
>>8719060
>>depression hitting fast
>>losing interest in showering/eating let alone coording
Get some help for the depression first, decide afterwards if you want to sell your wardrobe.
>>8718967
>I don't wanna be associated with living dolls, reality TV or the band of misako asslickers
Same. I don't give a shit about anonymous pettiness in the community, the real cringe are the dumb weebs and snowflakes who use lolita as a means to get famous and pitch a fit any time someone doesn't pat them on the ass. When it comes to public opinion I'd much rather be seen sitting with a bunch of cackling gossipy bitches than with the two-faced famewhores who use every meetup and lolita 'friend' as an opportunity to reinforce their fake saccharine dolly-chan kawaii persona and get as many notes and likes as possible. I always love it when they realize it's not all going to plan and flounce. Bye, bitch.
>>8719060
I agree what>>8719068 said. It sounds like everything else is just a symptom of t depression. Get help for that, focus on some deeper needs for a while, but keep the things you used to love until you're feeling a little better. You may find that once you work out the deeper issues, they'll bring you joy again. Until then, don't worry about it, and focus on doing whatever it is that does interest you now.
>>8719059
Diff anon, but Jillian said she wasn't entirely sure she was leaving forever when she announced it on YT, but the thing with Kate solidified her decision.
>>8719074
why does misako look so old and tired?
>>8719091
Because she is old and tired?
>>8718859
I've found people do this in any community. There are those who will stick around forever because they like the clothes, and will continue wearing the fashion. Then there are those who got more interested in validation and attention than wearing a fashion. This is why a lot of attention whores make a big fuss about "leaving because bullies desu!~" Like for some, like say MF, she just wanted to be left alone more or less to wear what she liked without the constant "muh deerstalkers" attention, but for some, like our most recent drama queen, it's more of a "let my name go down in history for my suffering" kind of thing. She's fantasizing that if she leaves everyone will see the err in their ways and speak of her as a shining beacon of legend because they were soooo cruel to her.
I used to see this shit a lot in the old deviantart fanart community days. The whole "you don't like me!! fine I quit see how you feel now without MY beautiful fanart!!" bullshit then the subsequent grappling for some other community's attention after they realize no one feels bad for them.
>>8719151
Could someone explain to me why people were so obsessed with MF? She was just a decently cute APwhore who did a few haul videos and was in two somewhat funny parodies.
>>8719091
Because it's one of the few photos of her that isn't shooped.
>>8719161
I've seen a few comments saying the reason they liked MF was because even though she wore like head to toe cute AP coords she didn't try to be "uguu kawaii desu-ne" and was "real"
>>8719161
She also had a decently popular blog and instagram, posted cute daily oufits and her antics with friends. All of that got deleted when she tried to disappear though. The only things still left is the stuff that Deerstalkers shot, because it's on their channel.
>>8718859
I haven't worn lolita in some time (due to various circumstances out of my control), and while I plan on wearing it again when I can, being out of the scene for a while has made me reflect on all the things I disliked about the fashion. Even if you're not super involved in the community, there's a huge sense of competition. For me, this meant always feeling insecure and inferior at meets, at cons, and even online. Lolita culture is very strict, trend-focused, and fast-paced; you always have to be on the up-and-up, or you'll get laughed at.
I know that not everyone feels bothered by this, but for me, it made it a lot more difficult to enjoy lolita.
>>8719623
>Lolita culture is very strict, trend-focused, and fast-paced; you always have to be on the up-and-up, or you'll get laughed at
I disagree, did you get made fun of or something?
None of this is new, people have been leaving the fashion because of the drama in the comm for ages. Does anyone remember the old school Oregon comm?
>>8720066
Not that poster, but it is though.The popular famous lolitas get nitpicked for following trends badly, or not following them at all. Everyone jumped on Cadney for trying to stay relevant and tore Jillian up with her shitty peignors and larme. If you follow a trend you die. If you dont you die.
>>8718926
>getting this buttblasted over people messaging you if you're going to wear HL
what. Are you e-famoose or something and are afraid you're going to lose followers over not wearing a dress. Because that's the only logic that would make sense over you being this 'jaded' over a stupid dress.
>>8720081
Could you give me am example of someone getting shit on because they aren't following trends? I just find it hard to believe.
>>8719091
Because she's 30 and it was the end of a long day.
>>8720091
It's not so much not following current trends as being behind in trends. Like, if someone were to wear a giant madonna crown and veil now, they'd get side eyed as out of date, because that's not the current trend anymore.
>>8720097
Lol what.
The lolitas I follow tend to not follow trends, and they don't get shit on except for occasional salt on cgl. Even then, it tends to be extremely minor. Then again, I don't follow drama cows so there is that.
I've noticed if you don't have good lighting, your coord is a bit plain jane, and you're not wearing the latest madonna flower veil crown trend, you may not get as many notes. But if you're living for notes, you may want to consider if you like lolita as a hobby or if you just like the idea of having a lot of strangers like your stuff. I mean, we all do, but that shouldn't be the single factor determining why you're in lolita or not.
>>8720097
Okay well, that's kinda different. But that's how it is even for normal fashion, it's not surprising to see it in a subculture as attention grabby as this one, and I think some girls who may be a little insecure feel a lot of pressure to be a part of that wave, to get noticed, to feel special. Some of us out there don't give a shit, want classic timeless pieces and march to the beat of our own drum, and some want that spotlight squarely pointed on themselves.
>>8720079
No but curious to know about it.
>>8719623
>>8720097
I wonder if this is specific to your comm? In mine some girls straight up do not know what AP's recent releases are, and straight up do not care. And my comm is 90% sweet lolitas, they just don't care about trends. We haven't had anyone show up with a madonna crown or attempt a peignoir yet, and quite frankly I think no one really cares if they did (so long as none of us have to dodge a swinging sceptre or anything...), I did the whole floral crown thing just recently and no one batted an eyelash.
It's kind of interesting, cgl will diss the madonna crowns, peignoirs and sceptres, but then I'd log onto to tumblr and see the same madonna crowns, peignoirs and sceptres photos getting a million notes and reblogs, which is the first sign that an opinion sprouted on cgl doesn't always reflect what other lolitas outside of cgl thinks. And then the next step of disconnect is to log into facebook and see that my comm just completely ignores all these trends entirely, a lot of them still dress like it's 2010 (except for the prints being recent) and don't follow any of those "popular" trends at all. We even have at least one girl who makes her own clothes and she doesn't get the silent treatment either, she's friendly with other members of the comm.
From my viewpoint, well, especially given how laidback my comm is, the only way to feel pressure to keep up with trends is definitely if you partipate hardcore in online communities, eg if you have social media and are actively competing for likes. In other words, it seems to be a self-imposed burden. If you simply turn off anon notes/comments, upload sparsely/when you feel like it, and ignore that you're not getting reblogged/likes, then it's very easy to have a simple, stress-free lolita experience. Which, I think, goes back to what the other anon was saying about wearing the fashion because you like the clothes, vs wearing it for attention and the flouncing when you get negative/zero attention.
>>8720133
My mom likes every single one of my posts.
Seriously, she got a tumblr just because I told her I had one. She's very supportive.
>>8719348
I'm pretty sure her blog is still up
I really can't stand some of the fame starved types that treat themselves as the very faces of lolita fashion. They seem to like the actual fashion secondary and treat it as a place to cultivate drama and attention first. Let's not forget Nina literally sperging out and exposing herself over the face of lolcow then painting herself as a martyr and the-Spoon-that-shall-not-be-named-that's-not-even-a-lolita, of all people, inciting Kate drama and having the most cringe worthy breakdown after being caught.
Kate always came off as delusional and very much in her own world, MF came off as fake, Jillian was a lesser MF (but I admire her for not falling off the face of the earth), Cadney seems really whiny, and the list goes on and on.
>>8720311
Cadney is actually really sweet, just...sort of naive, when it comes to people who are nice to her.
>>8720325
Did she really leave lolita or just step down as kawaii ambassador? Or is she going into some other style like a lot of these girls?
>>8720325
Cadney is a pretty sweet person irl, although I did side-eye her for a minute because of Kate (was NOT impressed with her in-person or online).
>>8720329
Think she just stepped down as ambassador after that AM shitstorm.
>>8718859
As for OP's question, I feel like some leave the fashion because they're not getting the attention and validation that they want. It's like they only get into Lolita because it's a niche fashion and they want to be a big fish in a small pond. Then when that backfires because of general fuckery, they flounce, looking for a new pond and never learning anything.
I think the Lolita community in general is pretty awesome, people generally don't get blasted unless they really deserve it and the amount of actual cyber bullying seems rather low. I'm not saying there is no bullying at all in our community but it's something you encounter everywhere in daily life too. You might get bullied in school or on your job. There are chances you will meet people that hate you (for no reason) everywhere and there's very little you can do about that when it's not because of your own actions and behavior. It sucks when that happens and it's difficult to deal with it but it's not something that's only limited to our community. But most of the "cyber bullying" that has been visible was merely criticism based on what someone did and if you can't deal with that then you're going to have a really hard time in the real world.
>>8718859
I think it has something to do with being easily affected by criticism. If someone rips on you for being shit and looking like shit, I can see how it can kill your joy in the fashion.
I can see how relentless criticism can make you lose interest in your hobby, but a lot of the people who are "famous" in this hobby seem more interested than their status than the clothes anyway. I also think that lolita attracts a lot of people with a lot of baggage and mental issues that use it as an escape (based on feel threads, and personal experience), which certainly does not help.
Honestly, /cgl/ is the only lolita community I participate in besides sales and lolita updates, and my personal instagram, and I like to keep it that way. There is just something about all the fame-whoring and drama in the community that makes it off-putting to participate in it non-anonymously, I'm happier just watching things unfold from afar. I'm also someone who really hates drawing attention to themselves, so there's that.
>>8720133
/cgl/ hating trends like flower crowns is entirely because they're considered too Tumblr and seagulls like to overtly despise anything they associate with that site, even if they wouldn't care about it if it were from somewhere else.
I'm not leaving lolita but I find lately that I have more fun planning coordinates with skirts and layered pieces like vests or jackets than just buying JSKs or OPs, coordinating with a blouse and leaving it at that, so I'm planning on clearing out a lot of my JSKs and focusing more on casual coordinates. I also don't have a lot of opportunity to wear full-blown JSK lolita so toning down my wardrobe might lead to getting to wear it more often. Maybe I'm just getting old.
>>8720148
I guess they associate the fashion with the community.
Indeed one can enjoy the fashion home alone, and wearing peter pan blouses or headbows can become very normal that is no need of a double life or to travel hours to get to dress at a tea party and act all classy. There is no need to take part on tea parties... but at the same time, going-all-out, OTT, truly experiencing the fashion with and without bullies and meanies, is better enjoyed with somebody who understands it, like a community and a tea party.
I guess people leave the fashion (taking it seriously and OTT) by leaving the comms
>>8719623
Internet culture always expresses the extreme, which is not the true reflection of reality.
In reality, nobody cares, some might admire you, some might admire themselves. Some might laugh.
it is up to you to enjoy, the same way you enjoy a pair of pumps or new jeans. Is just clothing.
Communities of fashion do the same trend thing always, just look at any normie fashion magazine. In and Out is common, and trends are even more useless.
Anyone remembers the leggings until half calf? neon t shirts?
nobody can sell this shit when trends are done
>>8720456
All while simultaneously maintaining various tumblr accounts.
Personally, I don't care all that much about the community as a whole. For every thing some people like, other people will not like it. For every person who thinks someone's coord is great, another will nitpick it, or call it ita because it's not to their tastes, or they just don't like that person for whatever reason. Different strokes for different folks. It's not the end of the world.
The community is great for improvement if you're looking to improve, but you need to realize you're never going to please everyone ever, and there is always room for improvement.
You go into any hobby or community where there's a large amount of people from varying backgrounds and you're going to butt heads. There's going to be negativity, obnoxious people, where there are transactions there are going to be scammers. Leave lolita and get into something else and find the same situation anywhere.
Lolita can be especially annoying because there's a lot of young weebs into this. Because there are so many young people, few are chill. Many are butt-mad and jelly. The fashion has become something about bragging rights, who owns the most brand, who got this or that coveted dress. Of course people are going to bitch.
I love it because half the people bitching about people owning their dream dress and not coordinating it to their tastes assume that all the pieces to put together their ideal coordinate will fall right into their lap like magic. Bitch if you can't afford a $250 second hand dress your ass isn't finding all those perfect items. Sit yourself down and shut up.
>>8718859
I believe it is because they have been pampered/live in a world of constant fake niceness
They see people being very nice to them as the norm, thus a complement or whatever doesn't really effect them in the same way. But this also means an insult, general bitchiness or a minor complement hits much harder
Honestly i think people just need to grow up and get over themselves, it's a fashion.
You dont have to post pictures online or talk to other lolitas to enjoy the fashion. If you post yourself for everyone to see, everyone is going to have a comment. You don't like that? Then don't post.
Just buy your brand, dress in the fashion and enjoy what you have. Every fashion scene has it's bitches and shit heads, but fuck that's the world in general.
>it's a fashion
>get over it
>wear your brand and enjoy it
People who can't take the community needs to just be a loner then. Or find lolitas they like and only hang with them. It's that fucking easy.
>>8720148
Not any of the anons you're quoting, but I've noticed that when it comes to the opinions of non-lolitas, they're a lot more influenced by the reality tv stuff and kawaii baby act than the bitchy/elitist reputation lolitas supposedly have. Like even as a lone lolita you're likely to (indirectly) be affected by famewhores because they're the reason your colleague or neighbor or grandma might think you're some crazy deluded "living doll". Whereas no normie is ever going to say "Oh you're a lolita? Aren't lolitas all elitist bullies?" because you have to already be involved with the community in some way to know about that aspect.
>>8718961
I don't get it, really. Lolita is a fashion, not somekind of political movement or some art form where you make a name for yourself. You have a blog an people like your pics? Fine. You are active in your community? Fine. But it's about the fashion, not about YOU as a person. So all these dramatic "leaving lolita" pussies need to calm the fuck down and get a reality check.
>>8720914
I used to be quite involved in the goth scene and I've had people come up to me saying "aren't Lolita's super catty?" It was so embarrising! This was way back in 2007-09. I stopped associating with the comm, publicly calling myself a lolita in 09 and it's gone pretty well since. If anyone asks, I explain my personal style but never bring up the word lolita. Were pretty infamous amongst the alternative crowd.
>>8720887
I don't know anything about lolita or the lolita community (I just lurk occasionally for cute dresses) but it would seem to me that the lolita community is really the only place where you're going to get positive comments.
That is
>>8718859
>the vast majority of attention they get is positive and they don't actually get any severe hate
Doesn't most of this positive attention come from within the lolita community itself? I'd assume most people on the street and such are just apt to, at best, stare; and at worst actively antagonize or mess with people in lolita. In which case I could see how wearing lolita sort of requires you to be part of the community, because if you aren't than you only get ostracized for your fashion, rather than ostracized and also praised.
But again, my opinion is ignorant.
>>8719091
I don't know what you guys are seeing, she looks pretty great to me?
>>8720094
she's 33, I also think she looks good and suits lolita well.
>>8720456
Nobody hates flower crowns, people just hate it when famehungry Lolitas will hop on any trend and try to incorporate it into their coords regardless whether it fits or not.
>>8721113
Your observations are correct. Girls in more progressive areas tend to get compliments from random normies on the street sometimes, but overall the positive feedback is from the lolita community. Girls in less open minded places often rely on the cyber community to even feel okay about wearing it.
>>8720926
This. I don't have a problem with people who seek popularity within our community, but a lot of the people that do tend to seriously think their presence is a gift to the fashion or something. Idk maybe I'm projecting.
>>8719060
Why can't you wear it to college? Shy?
>>8721189
She totally does, I'm just pointing out that she looks "Old and tired" in this photo because that's what happens when you're 30 something and exhausted.
>>8721270
That's true. This is a pretty out there fashion. People in gothic probably don't get as much hassle because western goth is already a pretty visible subculture and the normies are used to it, but sweet is unlike any other alternative fashion in the west. It already takes courage to be so "out there", and if you're only getting negative feedback then most people are going to give up.
>>8718934
Milkyfawn has quit all j-fashion and deleted everything, she's vegan now
>>8718859
For me it just became boring. I think I grew up and look too old to play the part desu senpai
>>8721449
really? can i get some caps or something? thats crazy! she was so into it.
>>8718859
I left for a few years because I felt like I was stuck in a rut. I had no energy and no imagination left as well as getting bigger responsibilities at work. Now that I look back on it I can really see that it was at the same time as my burnout/depression started. So now that I've been feeling better I also am getting back into the fashion.
>>8719074
This is the way SF Comm is.
>>8720066
I was targeted.
>>8721449
What happened to her new 'oh otome is me' thing then? Another phase?
>>8721449
As a young 20 something year old I can see her doing that. Nothing out of the ordinary imo. She's in college and around different groups - it's normal to change your interests quickly.
I was really into different things over the course of three years during college. Eventually I got into lolita and now I'm sort of stuck to it because I like the fashion. The way she left fashion was eh because she felt like she had to make a huge announcement about it, but honestly, the whole obsession over 'omg she has a different hobby now??' is more annoying. If she didn't make a fuss over how lolitas are not lovelies and she's god's gift to the community I don't see an issue with her leaving.
>>8721449
What? Why would you do that? Maybe it really was all a phase to her, which I can't really get angry at someone for, but I don't understand people who get so into something and make it their life, then drop it cold. That vegan thing sounds like a total phase as well that'll be short-lived, like what >>8722032 mentioned.
I think something probably triggered it. Is there any indicator on Facebook or something about what's going on? Or did she delete that too? I'm just wondering because it actually sounds like something someone with depression might do. Either that, or she just hates the j-fashion community that much these days.
I hope people like her and her herself don't loathe us just because we talk about them on anon boards sometimes. There's a lot of "where are they now" threads here and it's just us wanting to know out of curiosity and reminiscing.
>>8722249
>I don't understand people who get so into something and make it their life, then drop it
If you're saying this then you must be young and have yet to personally experience it. You grow out of things, your interests change, a hobby becomes less fun and more of a hassle, and so on. It's common.
>>8722274
Not everyone is phase crazy or "young" just because they don't cycle through 5 phases in the span of a year or two. It does come off disingenuous when it's like that. She didn't just change clothing styles but do a total purge on her lifestyle, friends, interests, everything. That is really unhealthy behavior and not normal. If anything, someone going through that much persona changing has an identity crisis and the issue is with them.
>>8722032
she's not in college
not that it matters regarding going through phases, but still, don't spread misinformation around
>>8722032
I think you're confusing girlyhoot with milkyfawn. Milkyfawn didn't announce anything she just deleted everything overnight.
Personally I don't understand why some girls feel they have to be a part of a comm to be into the fashion, to the point where they leave the fashion if they leave or are otherwise dejected from the comm.
I personally left my comm when I didn't want to deal with the drama and childish nonsense anymore. Best decision ever. I still wear lolita and still love it because at the end of the day its for me and I don't need a bunch of other girls to validate me as a lolita. I feel sorry for those that do.
>>8724220
I agree with this. Personally, I get happy when characters like Kate, MF, Jillian, and so on leave, even though I have nothing against them personally. They just irritate me with how they say lolita is "them", then leave entirely because of the community. What that means is that only other people's opinions and their fame mattered. Jillian talking about how she loved Cat's Tea Party was so "her" and doing the bloodbath to get it, then selling it when drama went down very shortly after was really telling.
They act like their image must be based on other people's opinions of them, which baffles me. I don't think I'd really ever "quit" lolita, so much as maybe quit a community. Lolita is really unique in that it can be worn as just clothing, where cosplay is very con-centric. Why not just leave the fashion community you hate and wear your clothes? Maybe keep a small group of friends you like.
>>8724291
These people usually have more personal problems than that they are really into the fashion I would say. What they are into is 'making friends and getting attention'. And then that backfires because they share their whole life on the internet. A healthy life is not always on the internet and fashion is something you should and could enjoy without all the attention, but for these people it's all combined clusterfucked. Honestly, I advice everyone to just be themselves and have friends in real life and not post everything public on the internet all the time. It's not like your life depends on it you know.
