Donk Bet Edition
Previous thread:
>>1359030
Only pros incorporate a flop donk betting range into their game.
>>1375695
HU 4 ROLLZ?
>>1375704
I'll only play with you if you prove you know how to triple-range merge.
Dude, why would you open a new thread about this?
It's impossible to make a live out of gambling, except for poker. But still, making poker your main income can be stressful as shit and you have to be really good at it.
>>1376287
living*
Poker is dead until America stop being faggots and legalize it again. Other countries are too frugal and care too much about their money.
>>1376287
not really good..
you just have to be good and find rich enough average players to milk from time to time.
playing good among other good players is same as playing roulette, since poker de facto is a game of chance, except when someone doesn't quite know all the perks of the game.
> Only pros indeed
UTG: 86.5 BB (VPIP: 48.65, PFR: 5.86, 3Bet Preflop: 2.35, Hands: 1,146)
Hero (CO): 247.72 BB
BTN: 108.16 BB (VPIP: 92.31, PFR: 19.23, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 26)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 23.57, PFR: 17.20, 3Bet Preflop: 8.62, Hands: 162)
BB: 295.42 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 20.83, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 75)
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Td Ks
UTG calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 4 BB, BTN raises to 10 BB, fold, BB calls 9 BB, fold, fold
Flop : (25.5 BB, 2 players) 4h 7h Jh
BB bets 23.8 BB, BTN calls 23.8 BB
Turn : (73.1 BB, 2 players) 5d
BB bets 51.18 BB, BTN raises to 74.36 BB and is all-in, BB calls 23.18 BB
River : (221.82 BB, 2 players) 4d
BB shows 9c Qd (One Pair, Fours)
(Pre 65%, Flop 63%, Turn 0%)
BTN shows 6d 8s (Straight, Eight High)
(Pre 35%, Flop 37%, Turn 100%)
BTN wins 215.82 BB
>not quadruple range merging
baka desu fampai
>>1376287
Honestly it's more interesting than 80% of the crap on here every day. My only suggestion is if you're going to make it about poker, call it poker general. If it's about roulette or blackjack or some shit, call it gambling.
Either way, it's not really /biz/ but whatever.
>>1376330
Wow too bad the 95+ vpip guy is directly to your left but still.
What limits?
>>1376336
Yeah, I don't mind that muchto be honest, as long as he is at the table. Its 100NL
>>1376335
True that. It was the only thread that made me come on /biz/ the last few days
>>1376338
Just a precision btw, although most players aren't really good, its kind of an exception to have such a good table.
>>1376346
How many tbls you play?
>>1376361
Depends on the stakes I play. At 100NL where I am confortable, between 12/15. At 200NL around 6/8
>>1376368
Amazing its still profitable. Thought online wouldve dried up by now.
Wanna disclose the site you play on?
I'm waiting for the world series of cribbage to become a thing. Already have a semi regular game with some guys at the local moose club, make some petty cash for it.
>>1376374
Tbh, at the 100NL I know most regulars ( small pool of players) and regfish/fish are usually not too difficult to exploit. Factor the RB in and it becomes quite profitable indeed.
At 200NL it's more difficult because there isnt much action upwards 400NL and unfortunately so some players move down, I understood the hard way that they are able to exploit me much more if I don't pay attention.
I don't mind saying, I play on a partypoker skin, player pool is weak af and I have a good RB deal with them. I am on a regulated EU market though, which is a pain in the ass.
pmsl
TEARS at state of this thread.
pmsl if you don't cold raise while UTG
>>1376287
You can make a living out of sports betting, so you are wrong there, clearly dunno what you're talking about.
>>1376398
Cool
Back in the day party had terrible rakeback compared even to Stars iirc. Guess they improved in that aspect. Anyhoo, gl w/ the grind :)
>>1376676
Kill yourself
>>1377090
the thing is is that you make your money through rb, not through making good decisions on the table
What is RB?
I live near a casino but am afraid of going
Video poker seems like a pretty decent way to kill time and possibly make a few bucks
thoughts?
>>1377295
Isn't video poker like black jack? You don't even get to play strategies or anything.
>>1377295
DON'T GAMBLE!
>>1377284
rake back
for every hand of poker you play, theres a rake taken out of the pot
sites thought it would be a good idea to give back some of that rack (at the cost of an even higher rake) to generate more traffic
rakeback pros literally are paid to grind out on as many tables as possible, filling in seats and generating more rake for the company.
>>1377337
Video poker is shit.
Electronic Poker is fine. It's just like real poker only played with a touchscreen and the cards are digital.
Basically it's just a faster way of playing. The house takes a larger rake, obviously, but you're paying table fees anyway unless you're in a tournament.
>>1377370
>house takes a larger rake
>while getting in more hands per hour
>>1377344
so like
start at 20 bucks
can put it at a quarter per hand
likelihood of getting 4 of a kind isn't terribly bad, which would net a profit of like 6 bucks lol
>>1377128
> The thing is...
I don't remember disclosing what proportion of my income is coming from RB, funny how you seem to assert your opinion as facts.
Know it alls never do well in poker, I am assuming this is why you are so butthurt. I don't see you providing any kind of insightful comment in here, just spewing frustration.
>>1377370
Can we define our terms here?
Video poker is a slot machine. Electronic poker is nothing. Internet poker is real poker that you play online with other real people.
>>1377416
what is your ROI and then your rake * rakeback?
this is actual math here, buddy.
>>1377430
>Playing cash games
>What is your ROI
Try again donkament player
I thought there were accusations of fixing in electronic poker
>>1377443
okay, take your bb/100 fucking dumbass
>>1377456
There are accusations of fixing in online/live/electronic whatever form of poker you can think of you'll find retards to believe its rigged to make them lose.
>>1377468
Well you're are the one being condescendent in the first place, forgive me for pointing out your mistakes, not really something an experienced player would do.
Anyway, I don't have my full database on hand, but I run around 3bb/100, RB depends on my volume obviously but I get 20% on the gross.
I play around 100Kh/month so the math is 3K income from the table and 2K from RB ( rake is insane where I play but I don't have the choice)
>>1377471
Well I know it isn't as popular as it had been about five years ago but I remember that one of the bigger sites was being investigated for fixing games
And I assumed the game's rapid decline in popularity was related to that investigation
>>1377500
Well there was the Ultimate bet scandal but I am confident this is not the norm, at least at the stakes I play.
Decline in popularity was mainly due to the fact that people realised it isnt that easy to win money and the whole black friday story which started with the FBI wanting to control money landering and ended up discovering a ponzi like skim at FT poker ( a website ran by degenerates who lended themselves huge amount of money).
The risk isnt so much in superusers and such but more website closing down and keeping your money because debts. Lost 4K that way
Anyone go vic, empire or hippodrome?
>>1377589
I don't live in England anymore but I went to the Grosvenor a few times for fun, mainly played 1/2 and 2/4. Was pretty nice compared to Aspers which is the worst shithole I ever set foot in
>>1376304
>playing good among other good players is same as playing roulette
This to some extent. Unless you can get some kind of advantage over another good player you are essentially wasting time at that table.
>>1376299
Do you know how many card rooms there are in this country?
>>1377596
Yeah vics good, defo recommend empire the most though especialy on weekends, attracts all sorts of clueless people.
anyone know a bitcoin gambling site with an affiliate program?
Haven't played any poker in a minute so I'm definitely rusty.
Been working on horses recently and slowly making progress.
>tfw imagining doing nothing else but occasionally sports betting and living the good life
Any other sports bettors?
>>1377736
Was, never did it full time. Can literaly get £5 on most bookies max nowadays, so just play poker now. Do you have a model for the horses? Cover flats of jumps?
>>1377771
Ah, that sucks. At least there's poker.
I've been working on a model. Just flats seeing as that's the more popular style here in the US. Also only thoroughbreds as well.
fucking card playing losers....go to draftkings and get wrecked in fantasy sports so you can at least lose your money with dignity
>>1377804
Didnt work out for you huh? Try again, your luck is about to turn, you're seem like a clever dude, variance has been a bitch that's all.
>>1377804
>fantasy sports
>dignity
Here's your (You)
>>1375695
I played some blackjack and slots this weekend. Came out with 800 bucks.
probably getting fucked in the long run for doing this recreationally and am now addicted to the casino. I go at least once a month.
>>1377804
>fantasy sports
HolyFuckingShit.
Just bet 500 dollars on Ethereum. Am I doing it right?
cashgame is dead anyway.. husng is where its at, made 11k in january, still chasing that high
anyone think sportsbetting can be longterm profitable?
>put in 100 in slots
>up 250
>loose it all
>>1377869
ive played fan duel for the last 3 years and have ~65% win rate with steady betting and profits all three years
only gamble NFL. can't wait for next season.
>>1378106
Might as well just hook up with a bookie and get some real action down.
>>1378029
>anyone think sportsbetting can be longterm profitable?
It can but you better be 100 percent dedicated to it.
>>1378189
legal vs illegal
ill stick with the legal
i bet some money with coworkers (nothing big that would cause drama at work) but im not dealing with some shady fucker for big bets
>>1378195
Or just set up an automated exchange bot and cherry pick prices
>>1378209
>some shady fucker
Every bookie i've ever known outside Nevada was on the level. You just need to be hooked up with the right people to avoid the trash.
>>1378224
Before black friday were there highstreet bookmakers like there are in normal countries?
>>1378252
I grew up in a couple of places where bookies are part of the local social fabric. Guarantee you that just about anywhere in the US there is someone who will have things going on a local level and is set to take your action. If you can't find them you are in over your head to begin with.
Oh nice the compulsive liar made a new thread
>hey guys poker pro here
>ugh they ALWAYS have it when you have QQ amirite?
>AHHHH I got it in 60% to win and LOST, this fucking game man
>meet me at the 2 cent table
Nobody in this thread is a profitable poker player at any limit (aside from me), and nobody will prove otherwise
>>1375695
>Only pros incorporate a flop donk betting range into their game.
I've flop donked like it was nothing and I'm an amateur. Might as well donk when betting on the flop since it's too frequently a crapshoot.
>>1378305
>this projection
>dodges 2 cent tables cause he's literally a welfare neet that's not allowed to spend "his" "money" on what he wants
I lost 66% of my pocket QQ, KK, and AA tonight. Absolute BULLSHIT.
>"yeah, i think i can call a 32bb shove with my 40bb stack near the bubble with T8o oop and flop two pair"
This fucking game, man.
>>1378335
>Might as well donk when betting on the flop since it's too frequently a crapshoot.
Are you fucking kidding?
You might as well hand your wallet over and leave.
>>1378305
I'm up $160 on over 10'000 $1 sng 6 max
>>1378382
quit your day job for sure
>>1378388
When I move up and can table more than 4 hopefully I will
>>1378029
HUSNG has been dead for years and you're probably lying your ass off or just went on an insane heater.
Traffic above 100 is disgusting and competition important, there are cartels that will do everything to keep you from moving up every step of the way...
Graph or did not happen, also volume and stakes, ROI ?
So far i've made more money out of political/sports gambling than I have off the lottery.
I fully expect it to go horribly wrong however.
>>1378347
you could at least try explaining why mathematically its a bad idea
otherwise youre just a jealous troll
>>1378305
what limit you play?
I jump into 25nl on ACR from time to time. I think I'm breakeven or slightly losing because I spew when tilted against the russian bots. I mostly just try to run good so I can slowroll the regs I hate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgM314J0I9k
I been watching this guys videos lately. He isn't very good at poker and in this video he hired a craigslist hooker to do twitch commentary with him. lmfao senpai
>>1379513
>only 1k views from last year
this guy doesn't stream anymore, i can bet on that
What /v/idya do poker players play?
>>1375695
Story time.
So I get sent another $50 matchplay in the mail by the casino. This is like the 4th one they have sent me this month. I put it down with my $80 bucks on a hand of blackjack. Lose it. Shit lmfao. I am beginning to hate matchplays and hate blackjack. They also give me $10 free slot play. I play 10 spins of $1 dollar slots and end up hitting $150 and cash out. Sweeeet.
>take the $150 and bet the whole thing on RED in roulette. (Why the hell would I listen to Welsey Snipes when he got caught for tax evasion, went bankrupt and went to prison?)
>hit the $150
>pocket it and go to eat my free buffet from a voucher I got
>get a free walking dead t-shirt and swag from a walking dead promotion. they are advertising a new walking dead slot machine
>was planning on going home with my winnings but get the poker itch
Cont.
>>1379593
>decide to play NLHE
>about 20 hands in
>on the button
>have 10c 5c
>players raises to 4x bb
>5 callers
>I call behind
>flop 10d 7d 5d
>everyone checks
>think about betting but dont want to get reraised from someone representing flush and have to make a decision
>turn comes out 5s
>everyone checks
>I make a value bet, just small enough that if someone has a large diamond they should call
>the thinking behind this is if I have a boat I would have checked and let them catch their flush. I don't want them to put me on a boat, I want them to put me on trips, so I bet it
>I also want to get some value out of my hand in case no diamond comes out on the river
>I get 2 callers. nice!
>river comes out 2d
>fuckyea.jpg
>I can see player to my left watching me out of the corner of my eye. LOL. I visibly make a small grimace when I see the diamond to try to further sell my trips, not looking at him the whole time
>thats good enough for him. he makes a large overbet
>player to my right thinks about it for about a minute then calls
>I know I can't sell my trips anymore if I call or raise but I try anyways. It makes it even harder that there is 2 people I am trying to convince instead of 1
>I count out enough chips to make a call. luckily it's more than half my stack. only an idiot would call or raise here with just trips. I push the whole stack in.
>"All in". I say it a little louder than normal and try to project confidence and strength while looking at both of them in the eye.
>this works. player to my left snap calls
>player to my right is a little smarter. he thinks about it for a minute then folds (later find out he had Kd). lol fucker.
>player to my left shows Ad after I show him my boat.
>he's laughing. Its probably as he thinks back about how he thought he had a solid tell on me on the river
After all of that it turned out to be a $650 hand. I win about $200 more over the next 2 hours then call it a day.
>>1379609
Good story. I love it when a huge hand works out.
>>1379609
>be me
>go to local card room
>poker is illegal in my state so its one of "those" types of rooms
>sit down with 100 at a 1/3 game
>sit to the right of two guys i beast on
>beast on them for the first two hours that im there
>stack is about 400 at this point
>get pocket aces in the big blind
>utg+1 is an extreme LAG
>he raises to some amount like 5x or something
>theres a couple of callers
>i put in a reraise
>lag reraises me
>i look to see who's folded, asking the guy to my right if he folded, he says yeah
>i look at lag and shove
>lag snap calls
>guy to my right snap calls
>"what the fuck? you told me you didn't have cards"
>call the floor over
>tell them that this player, whom i suspect yet say nothing about of being a house player, just angle shot me saying he mucked his cards when he didn't
>they don't disqualify his hand and the house came around to watch this 1200 pot
>flop comes out KQx
>lag has the straight draw
>guy to my right has a flush draw
>x
>the look on the faces of the guys standing around watching as i begin to suspect the LAG is also a house player
>house tries to offer me insurance, which i deny, since they come out in the long run
>x
>the look of disbelief as i dodge the world
>take down a few more pots
>say i gotta party to go to so im gonna cash out
>never went back
>>1379632
Yea it doesn't always work like that haha. Since I told a story about how I won I should tell the story about how I lost I guess...
>same table
>kh 9d
>on the button again
>player raises to 4x bb
>3bet by loose aggressive player to 12bb
>I call (normally I wouldn't with that specific hand but I feel like its going to be HU with an aggressive player who is oop)
>flop comes 2h 9s 9c
>perfect flop for me
>he donk bets 1/2 the pot
>I just call, hoping he puts me on overcards with no pp
>turn is jd
>he donks 1/2 the pot again
>I reraise just in case he has something call-able like AA, KK, or something silly like Q10. want to get maximum value out of him
>he calls me. I can tell by the way he calls its a smooth call and he thinks he probably has the best hand
>if he is putting me on a J (which he probably is) it means he most likely has AA, KK or QQ
>I don't put him on a 9 or boat because with the way this guy plays he would never play such a strong hand so lightly
>river comes out Qd
>he overbets the pot
>fuck lol. with that player, with that bet, I know he just hit the river, hard.
>I almost muck my hand within the first 5 seconds but then like an idiot try to convince myself that my trips are still good
>there was no way I was putting him on a straight at that point but I felt strongly like he had QQ
>"yeah, but what are the odds of that? hey man, do you have pocket QQs?"
>he looks at me blankly, giving away nothing lol
>so I call just because I am curious and a dummy
>he turns over QQ, of course
Sometimes I just need to learn to trust my instincts. He took me for like $200 that pot. It messed up what would have been an otherwise decent day.
>>1379668
Yea man I hate those angle plays. It's happened to me at least a few times in live games within the last year or so. Its one of those things that casinos rarely crack down on unless it is a big tourney. Oh, so last week I had a game where a guy is actually taking chips off the table while his cards are still live and putting the chips in his pocket. Wtf lmao. Or how about the guy a month ago who is heads up and checks the cold nuts to his buddy before telling him not to bet. Theres some shady characters in this game.
>>1379759
wait
so dude opens up
then homeboy 3bets
you call
dude donk bets?
then what does homeboy do?
though, showing that you will call down with trips is better than showing you would fold on the river with how much you've already put in. i mean, aren't you pot committed by the river?
>>1379768
if someone is taking chips off the table, and you're in an actual casino, call the floor over. accuse him of bringing in chips instead.
and im not sure if the rule applies universally that you can't check the nuts on the river when youre last to act. i mean, you might want to check to see the opponents cards, but then theres the collusion aspect. not too sure what to think of the rule
You guys seen this Bitcoin themed card game?
>>1378216
I've been wondering about this. Seems that a lot of bookies make it really hard to scrape data for that reason.
I would be interested in trying to get an arbitrage system going.
>:(
>>1379891
well actually Pinnacle has an API so you can just use them as they have some of the lowest margins which means some of the truest prices.
>>1375711
Micros reference? If so, mahnigga.jpg
>>1379847
>though, showing that you will call down with trips is better than showing you would fold on the river with how much you've already put in. i mean, aren't you pot committed by the river?
No, I agree. I was kinda pot committed by the river. I don't really think it was a bad call, it was just that there was no way he was bluffing that amount with a marginal hand on the river. With that bet, he is hoping I have a 9. If he had AA or KK, he honestly probably would have checked on the river after my reraise on the turn or put out a value bet at most. He was an aggressive player but he wasn't a bad player. It's why he didn't come over the top on the turn. If he puts me on a J and he reraises then I fold and he doesn't get any more value. If he puts me on a 9 and he reraises then that's a dumb move. There really was nothing else he could have had there but QQ. I was able to sniff it out but just couldnt let go of my trips.
>if someone is taking chips off the table, and you're in an actual casino, call the floor over. accuse him of bringing in chips instead.
I wasn't in the hand anymore but I pointed it out to the other players who were oblivious lol. The floor came over and he played stupid so they let him slide.
>and im not sure if the rule applies universally that you can't check the nuts on the river
I'm not too sure either. In tourneys it absolutely applies but cash games are a little bit looser with the rules. It was more the fact that he told his buddy not to bet first. That's absolutely collusion. I had to tell him he couldn't do that. His response was "oh I didn't see I had the nuts...". Fucking liar lmao.
>>1379920
oh if theres a player telling another player how to play, call the floor over. like you said, it's absolute collusion. if they dont' do anything, just say you don't feel comfortable playing at this establishment anymore and will take your businesses elsewhere.
>>1379904
Oh wow, that's awesome. I'm assuming I'd still need to scrape other sites for differing odds? Also being in the US kind of limits me.
>>1379958
No just get pinny prices, then set the bot to check for any prices on the exchange that are like 20% + more than on pinny, then have the bot lay that price. It's kinda complicated to do though, requires knowledge in many fields. If US you'd probably have to use a BF and Pinnacle agent unfortunatley.
>>1380045
What do you mean by pinny and BF? Not following the terminology, sorry.
Pretty sure I have the knowledge to build the system. Seems like an interesting project to mess with.
>>1380302
Pinny = pinnacle
Bf = betfair
>>1376335
>It's not really /biz/
No it isn't but I've said it before and I'll say it again: it's a hellova lot more /biz/ than anything else. Trying to convince the MMA fighters in /asp/ and the sweat stinking dice rolling RPGers in /tg/ about the value of playing poker for money is more doomed to fail than preaching zionism in /pol/
>>1379437
Nigga please.
To you it's a crapshoot solely because you don't know how to size up a table and make moves when you have to.
>>1379759
This post just shows me that I am not as good at poker as I think I am. I don't know how players are able to put other players on exact hands. I still don't know how you were able to put him on pocket queens. That is an insane read if you are telling the truth.
>>1380624
>this shitposting
>>1380683
Yea honestly that was a rare occurence though. The only reason I was able to put him on a hand was the type of player he was. Loose aggressive players usually like to bet when they have something, bet harder when they don't, and bet even harder when they have the nuts. Against most players the best you can hope for is to put them on a range and then try to figure out what part of their range makes the most sense.
The fact that he 3bet preflop as a loose aggressive player doesn't mean anything. He could have 27 off just as easily as AA. That's the only reason I called with my k9 in position. Then the fact that he bet 1/2 the pot on the flop meant he most likely had a hand but didnt want to get too committed if I have a 9 and reraised him. If he had AK or air he probably would have overbet the flop to try to take it down. If he had a 9 he probably would have bet it the same way knowing that I might think he is bluffing and commit myself. Or if he has a 9 he would just check. Beware of the aggressive player that checks on the flop after 3betting preflop. It usually means he has close to the nuts. Loose aggressive players will make the continuation bet even if they don't have anything 9 out of 10 times. But... he had no reason to put me on a 9 and he had a hand so he value bet it.
Cont.
>>1380770
Same thing on the turn. Nothing changed and he is still a little cautious about the 9 but not too worried so he value bets it, thinking he still has the best hand. When I reraise him this changes everything. For the first time in the hand he gets a little information out of me. I give him this information because it helps me to figure out what he has. The reraise is whats called a feeler bet. It is meant to draw a reaction out of him at the same time get more value out of him. By the time I make the feeler bet I figure he has a decent hand and I have a better one but I won't know for sure unless I test the strength of his hand. The fact that he calls and doesn't raise me back confirms what I thought before. He has a high pocket pair. Ironically, if he had AJ he would have bet it stronger. Sometimes the weaker the hand, the stronger the bet.
Then the river comes out and not only does he not check, he makes a large bet. There was nothing he could really have there but the nuts. He isn't putting me on a failed straight draw. He is putting me on a 9 or J. The thing that bugged me and should have let me get away from the hand is if he had bet so lightly on the flop and turn because of the possibility of trips, why all the sudden did he not seem worried about it on the river? It should have been an easy fold by me but like another poster noted, I was already pot committed and just curious enough for a call.
>>1380817
Huh? I thought it was pretty obvious I am the same guy even though my ID changed.....
Why would I respond to a post directed to someone else like it was me if it wasn't me????? You're weird lol
>>1380683
They are not, if you have half a brain you play against a range. This guy cold calls a 3bet from and aggressive player with K9, this is just money down the drain, no matter this specific outcome, this is just retarded.
>>1380899
Poker isn't as cut and dry as you think it is. One day you will learn that everything is situational. There are some players I wouldn't even call a 2 bet from without a fully premium hand. Then there are players like this who make 3bets almost every other hand. If you see him make 3bets with 4 8 offsuit as often as qj hearts do you still think this was a bad call? Poker is all about making the right move given all of the information presented. That hand he just happened to have QQ but with his hand history it was way more likely he didn't. I called knowing that it was going to be easy to spot a bluff after the flop and that I could (most likely) outplay him. It didn't even really matter what my cards were at that point. Loose aggressive players are usually really predictable.
Cont.
Let me give you an example. (Be aware that I do this sparingly and only in certain situations)
>playing online a couple days ago
>loose aggressive player raises preflop
>I have 7d 8d
>I call
>flop comes kc 4s 2h
>I check
>the board is pretty dry so he makes the continuation bet and fires a barrel at me on the flop
>I call
>stupid play right? I didn't connect with anything. It would seem like that but given the hand history and his bet size I am almost 100% sure about 2 things. He didnt connect. I can make a play on him later.
>because I am a tight player he thinks I hit a piece of the board but he doesnt know what piece.
>turn comes kd
>he fires an even larger barrel at me
>this bet makes it even more likely that he doesn't actually have a K. He is trying desperately to represent a strong K but the size of his bet shows he wants me to fold and give gives away his weak hand. If he really did have it he wouldnt be trying to push me off the pot.
>I call
>river comes out 8c
>this is a great card for me. now that I actually have a pair, I don't even need to reraise if he makes a bet. I am almost positive I have the best hand and can just call
>he decides not to fire a 3rd barrel and basically gives up
>I make a decent value bet
>he folds
I almost want to check on the river and show him my hand. There are pros and cons to both. If I do show him, he is not going to try to 3 barrel bluff me again. Since I don't show him my hand he is still putting me on a K and I can possibly make more moves on him later.
>>1381431
Yes it is situational indeed, and in this situation, against this profile you're bleeding money.
Against a 11/1/1 I may understand you taking your chances because vilain is pretty much face up, here its very different.
You say it yourself, vilain is loose aggro, he has hands in his 3bet range that will crush yours KT+ A9+ 99+, you're not doing so well against the rest either and on top of that he is going to be bluffing a ton of hands.
You find yourself hoping to catch a hand or that vilain will slow down at some point and let you bluff, just like in your example >>1381433
Even worst in the K9 hand, vilain is 3betting OR that you completely take out of the equation but is likely to come back on top...
>>1381589
>You say it yourself, vilain is loose aggro, he has hands in his 3bet range that will crush yours KT+ A9+ 99+, you're not doing so well against the rest either and on top of that he is going to be bluffing a ton of hands.
Honestly at that point I am not even too worried about what I might have. If I really thought it was likely that he had QQ I would have obviously never called. I chose that spot to challenge him because he is barrelling all over the place and I wanted to contest him to send a message. I had position on him so it was the perfect time to do so. I probably would have done it even with a 7 10 offsuit. At that point I am only trying to outplay him. It just happened that I caught trips on the flop but I wasn't depending on that. I knew right away with the way he bet the flop that he actually had a hand. Like I said, loose aggessive players are usually pretty predictable.
>You find yourself hoping to catch a hand or that vilain will slow down at some point and let you bluff, just like in your example
Not exactly. Even if villain hadn't slowed down that other hand I still would have bluffed at it because I had a pretty good idea where he stood the entire hand. What you don't understand is that you don't always necessarily need to have the hand, especially in HU play. I spend a lot of time building a tight table image just so I can exploit it in these types of situations.
>>1380899
pretty much this
he's giving his hand away preflop
he doesn't know how to play range v range, either
>>1381433
>makes the continuation bet and fires a barrel at me on the flop
This should tell everyone you have no idea what you're talking about.
>>1381706
You can't have a good idea where vilain stands if he is loose aggro, this itself pretty much means that his range is large and he is going to be aggressive whether he hits or not. In the end if you plan on bluffing 100% or close, you make him fold stuff that you have probably beat already, that's about it.
Also, you talk about perceived range but that's a very long shot, you often don't have the image you think you do or vilain doesnt give a shit.
You say HU play but you happen to find yourself lucky and HU, hands starts with vilain 3beting other players, blinds still have to talk.
Anyway, if you feel that this is good, I am not going to argue with you, just letting you know I make most of my money against guys like you who think they can outplay the maths with their "reading" skills. GL
>>1381928
Wot.
>>1381933
Wot.
>>1381954
>anyway, if you feel that this is good, I am not going to argue with you, just letting you know I make most of my money against guys like you who think they can outplay the maths with their "reading" skills. GL
Lmao. I play the math the majority of the time. What's supremely ironic is that I probably play much, much tighter than you do. You are getting on me for a move that admittingly I "use sparingly" against players that are super aggressive. Trust me, you don't make any money against me or "guys like me". If I make a move like this towards you it means your play is entirely too predictable and you should not be playing poker professionally.
>>1382079
You can laugh as much as you want mate, I don't care how much you do that, its a loosing play whatever way you take it because the reasoning behind it is fucking retarded.
I've been nice so far because, desu, I don't really give a shit, there are dedicated forums to talk about strategy that you obviously never visited or were laughed out off. I happen to be a pro and you're the reason I gave up coaching; you would not believe the number of retards that try and justify their orrendous plays with "yes but, you don't understand... In this situation... I don't do it often... ".
You don't actually back up any point you make with any solid or mathematic arguments, its pretty much your feeling.
Well I hope you keep on playing and I have you on my tables at some point.
Btw, I don't play "tight", I am 29/25/10, I just don't play retarded.
>>1382104
>29
>not 35 minimum
Breh, you better start believing in nits, cause you're in one
>>1382116
So loose aggro is what ? 45/35, I call that a fish my friend.
Anyway, as usual, you got nothing worthwile to contribute, shows how much of a thinker you are, enjoy masturbating to you reflect in the mirror
>>1382104
I am laughing because everyone is a poker pro or a poker coach. I really don't need to prove myself to you because you are one of those players that will never understand that poker is more than math. I have been playing poker professionally (successfully) for about a decade and a half. I don't even browse 2x2 forums or other forums because frankly, they are full of "poker experts" that think that there is some universal poker handbook that shouldn't be deviated from. You ever want to see how full of it people are, just visit the comments section of youtube videos from the top pros in the world playing.
>what an idiot! how did that guy call that hand!
...umm, dude. That idiot is Phil Ivey and you have absolutely no clue what pre-empted him to make that specific call. You don't know the hand history. It may look like a bad call but there are reasons why he did it. What you are looking at is a small window of play and trying to make a judgement on that play when there is thousands of other variables at hand that you as a spectator are not privy to. His career winning speak for themself.
I personally, am no Phil Ivey, but I do alright. This discussion is silly to me.
>>1382138
you sure you're replying to the person you think you are?
>>1382155
My bad I was not ^^ Still curious to know what non nit is for you, I play 100NL/200NL online, I don't know much winning players with a 35 VPIP
>>1382145
Yeah I think it pbbly goes down to the livetards/online debate, I know I won't convince you and desu, I am not sure I want to.
It used to work for you when everyone was full retard, don't change, we all know this game is not about introspection and adaptation.
>>1382162
non nit is like 15+
i was just shitposting
>>1382168
Actually, I have only started to incorporate that play within the last couple of years, and to be honest with you, it works beautifully. The reason it works is because players get stuck in specific patterns that they never deviate from because it is the only way they know how to play. They always alter their bet size in a consistent (predictable) manner postflop according to hand strength. The majority of other players do not pick up on these types of patterns but when I personally do, I am going to exploit it any chance I get. Usually I wait for a premium hand to expoit it, but sometimes I don't always have that luxury or that amount of time so if I have marginal hand or even sometimes less than marginal hand HU in position, I am going to take it and look for an opportunity. There really is not much risk involved. It's really not as crazy a play as you think it is. Do you really think I would play solid poker most of the time and then every once in a while randomly give up chips? If it wasn't working consistently then I wouldn't do it...
>>1382197
You're still in a guessing game post, for that specific hand at least. I much rather col4dbetting if he is so large and incorporate middle value hands I can shove or call a shove with.
>>1382202
I am absolutely in a guessing game post, but it is an easy guessing game because of the predictability of his play. I wouldn't do it if I don't think I can sniff him out very quickly on the flop according to hand history. Plus, if you think it is a guessing game for me, it is much more a guessing game for him.
> incorporate middle value hands I can shove or call a shove with
That's you. Do your thing. I am not even telling you that you are wrong here, just that there are multiple ways to play it in this situation.
>>1382225
>That's you. Do your thing. I am not even telling you that you are wrong here, just that there are multiple ways to play it in this situation.
I'll give you that no worries. I am off gn
>go into casino
>put in 100
>get to 250
>I'll get out (x) man I swear
>loose it all
Everytime
Got down to 30 chips HU vs 1470 and came back, unreal scenes. Flipped about 7 winners on the trot, wondering how my Brazilian opponent must be feeling desu..
>>1376304
>doesn't know what de facto means
>>1382225
>there are multiple ways to play that situation
you can actually put some info in about the hand for some programs and find out the best line to take considering the very specific hand and the players in it.
this type of calculator is kinda new and it can take some times to do the calculations.
