Why has no one tried to breed corvids to make them as smart as humans?
http://www.birdorable.com/blog/mirror-mirror-on-the-wall/
because they're hard and expensive to keep.
Because that's impossible
>>2151125
Magpies recognize themselves in mirrors.
That's basically dolphin tier intelligence.
>>2151104
Because crows are smarter.
>>2151130
And dolphins will never be anywhere near as intelligent as humans either.
Corvids have more tools at their disposal not being limited to underwater and having flippers, yet they aren't even constructing nigger tier housing or doing anything with their intelligence really. No other animal has a chance of being intelligent like humans, human intelligence is a freak of nature.
>>2151174
There must be a way to uplift them so they achieve at the very least nigger-tier intelligence.
Because they'd escape breed and kill us all.
>>2151174
>yet they aren't even constructing nigger tier housing
magpie nests have roofs.
they're build so sturdy that they're often used again the next breeding season.
>>2151184
Bird intelligence it's interesting.
I know that most people will consider that human intelligence it's true intelligence and the rest of the animal kingdom can fuck off, but that's as dumb as claiming that america is #1.
Different species develop different types of intelligence and resources that make sense to their enviroments.
Cephalopods have intelligent tentacles and skin, their skin and arms are extremely more intelligent than ours.
Birds can talk, dolphins are emotionally above us by a large margin, and social bugs have more functional societies than ours.
But we judge intelligence on the basis of how good they are at figuring out human stuff.
This is a problem with western civilization in general, we claim to be the measure stick for intelligence and we shouldn't.
It's not about how close we can make them to us, but about how far they can they take their own development.
Wich is a concept that escapes most intellectuals when adressing animal intelligence.
Pic related, amazing bird nest, way superior to human mudhuts.
>>2151201
you're addressing a problem that doesn't exist, no one actually thinks this.
the issue with western culture is anthropomorphisation.
>>2151201
> dolphins are emotionally above us by a large margin
Aren't they a bunch of rapists?
>>2151201
>Different species develop different types of intelligence and resources that make sense to their enviroments.
No.
Ever heard of a thing called convergent evolution?
If aliens exist, they're very likely similar to us.
>>2151203
Of course, cause western culture don't think that africans are less intelligent than them, right?
Face it, when it comes to discussions about intelligence, we are assholes.
Anthropomorphisation is exactly what Im talking about, Cephalopods evolved to live in the sea and to deal with sea creatures and enviroment, they don't need to do heavy lifting, or to be social, but if it existed some social species of Cephalopods they would be extremely advanced, they just never had the need to be that social.
This is a problem I have with our judgment of intelligence, we think that making an Ipod it's intelligent.
Surviving since the Ordovician period it's way more impressive than an Ipod.
We need a new method of measuring intelligence, that doesn't revolve around human intelligence, and we are nowhere close to that.
>>2151215
They're autistic?
>>2151227
Artificially selecting a race of autistic humans would be interesting to.
How their society would be like?
>>2151222
>cause western culture don't think
culture doesn't think, people do.
>Surviving since the Ordovician period it's way more impressive than an Ipod.
everything alive today survived the ordovician period.
intelligence is 'the ability to learn or understand things'
there's nothing that beats humans in that.
the word you're looking for isn't intelligence.
>>2151249
Do we understand animals better than they understand themselves?
Animal communication for example, birds talk among themselves, a lot, we don't understand bird lenguague, we have no clue about their complexity, but it's obvious that they talk about a lot of things, in general people expect for animals to be talking in human words to consider the speech to be intelligent, like literally in english.
Cephalopods talk with the color of their skin and it looks very complex as well.
What makes human so intelligents in comparison is exactly culture, complex cultural behaviour and accumulation of knowledge over generations, but I believe that ants and social insects in general, do this better than us, with smaller brains.
We don't have truly original toughts, we have socially developed toughts, if you have a human, that never have contact with other humans, and you meassure him against an animal that's been raised with humans.
What do you think it will happen?
The trick with intelligence is that humans sort of rolled perfect during evolution. Intelligence, dexterity, strength, and longevity.
Some critters are smart but can't manipulate their environment. Some are dexterous and smart but only live 3 years. Some live 200+ years but are stupid.
We're a glorious bastard of a fluke produced by a brutal and unforgiving system.
>>2151246
Look up >>>/tg/47838465
>>2151269
>Do we understand animals better than they understand themselves
yes, most animals aren't self-aware.
>What do you think it will happen?
the same thing that happens when different cultures meet eachother.
they'll try to kill eachother.
all primates are violent as fuck towards anything they don't understand.
>>2151201
But America is #1 and humans are the smartest. You literally can't even argue against that
>>2151269
The human concept of color must be confusing to animal that can see ultraviolet light.
>>2151295
>>2151211
Yes, and they swim it off after being raped. Humans can learn alot from dolphins.
>>2151269
>we don't understand bird lenguague
Most of their calls or songs are for intimidation, mating or child rearing. People who are adept at bird calls can easily recognize what species,purpose behind the call, male or female and local dialect within the species . I know I'm giving people credit but you can't really say birds do the same for us.
>>2151311
humans swim it off too.
>with alcohol and antidepressants.
>>2151312
Parrots seem to talk about a lot of things.
Watch this, it even have the accent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeeeeSIYbQ4
Also watch this octopus stealing a camera in an obvious attempt to do some reverse engineering of human technology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5DyBkYKqnM
>>2151311
kek
Look how smart and funny magpies are
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV4qZ_lgStw
>>2151174
>and humans will never be anywhere near as intelligent as dolphins
fixed
also pic related
>>2151269
>and learned he was grey
If that fucker sees in UV and had a multitude of colors in UV he was retarded for believing humans.
>There must be a way to uplift them so they achieve at the very least nigger-tier intelligence.
Just breed the smartest ones. After a couple of generations you should absolutely see progress.
>>2151323
Alex the parrot is literally one parrot and is exceptional; additionally, there is debate as to whether Alex was actually creatively employing language and remains controversial.
>octopus steals camera because it's curious
>obvious attempt to reverse engineer human technology
Now you're just projecting.
>>2152953
Parrots in general have a lot of good moments.
Especially when they curse, wich they do with perfect emotional and contextual accuracy.
Of course I was exagerating with the reverse engineering, but if he steal it because of curiosity, he will reverse engineer it if he could, octopuses seem to be very curious about human technology.
Octopus use tools same with birds, and they use communication in order to elicit responses in humans, they genuinely want to know how we will react, they test limits, recognize themselves, and learn from observation.
There's plenty of evidence of them using creative communication, they're just bad at english at the moment, and that's mainly our fault, cause we are bad at teaching them, or learning their lenguague.
>>2152851
why do dolphin brains have penisses
>>2152993
>Especially when they curse, wich they do with perfect emotional and contextual accuracy.
Because they're mimicking the tone of the human that taught them the word. You know how parrots produce sound, right?
>but if he steal it because of curiosity, he will reverse engineer it if he could, octopuses seem to be very curious about human technology.
Again, projecting. A myriad of reasons can explain why octopodes are attracted to metal and plastic items; the lights on the camera could look like prey, it could like shiny objects, it could be curious as to whether the camera is part of the human, etc. Octopodes likely do not have a sense of "technology" and you seem to be assuming that it immediately recognized the camera as such. Furthermore, there is no evidence of octopodes mimicking human technology by building.
>they use communication in order to elicit responses in humans, they genuinely want to know how we will react,
You're assuming they're trying to communicate on a human level because they're curious and that they're not trying to just convey that humans should leave it alone; most cephalopod species are highly unsociable and private and want to be left alone. To do this, they will often flash bright or at least non-cryptic colors to startle or intimidate organisms that invade their space.
>recognize themselves
Octopodes have consistently failed the mirror test.
I don't deny that Cephalopoda are incredibly adept at problem-solving and exhibit curiosity, play, primitive learning, and possibly even preference (octopodes in captivity have been observed to arrange items in their tank a specific way and will repeatedly do so if the items are moved, whether this is an instinctual system of arrangement not yet understood or proof that octopus, like carnivorous mammals and above, have likes and dislikes, remains to be seen).
>there's plenty of evidence of them using creative communication
The evidence is very sketchy and in many cases anecdotal.
>>2153015
Parrots don't curse all day, they do it in context, they curse when they had too, just like us and for similar reasons.
https://youtu.be/0dCzjyypmXg
>Octopodes have consistently failed the mirror test.
I'm curious about this, it could be due to the difference in their visual recognition, and not a lack of self recognition, they evolved in a completely different line than the rest of the animals that have passed the test, maybe their visual cortex (or visual something) it's not capable of seeing the reflection, as a perfect reflection of themselves, maybe the image in the mirror looks distorted to them.
Every case of an animal attempting to comunicate to a human it's valuable and not to be discarded, those could be valuable landmarks in a developing tendency, instead of isolated cases.
And they develop creative communication to talk among themselves first, we didn't developed creative communication to talk to animals either, that was an after tought.
Human animal communication has advanced a lot lately, parrots just to be in the jungle screaming at monkeys and now are in suburbia watching tv, that's very complex and worthy of study.
>>2152851
Douglas Adams pls
>>2151203
Bugguy change his trip?
I wonder how does one recognize himself in the mirror. I know what mirror is, so I can recognize that a person reflecting in it is probably me. But without this reference, I wouldn't know what my face look like, and most of me, really.
>>2153015
>Octopodes likely do not have a sense of "technology"
The octopus carrying coconut shells is probably the closest. Of course it's humor to suggest that they have any idea what a camera is. It's likely a hard object to with any "usefulness" defined in it's shape.
>>2153501
The evidence racks up really quickly when you're in front of a mirror (every little move). Toddler can figure that out so it's not really significant.
Well, at least western toddlers
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/kids-and-animals-who-fail-classic-mirror/
>>2152242
It's uncanny how that second guy inspects what the first one is doing. I like how he tries to pull his own leg, maybe thinking he might be able to put it up there on the tower. A childlike impulse.
>>2151211
why do people bring this up so often? there not special because they rape there special because they rape for pleasure, not many animal gain pleasure from sex. whats weird is that BOTH humans and dolphins rape for pleasure, not that dolphins are rapists, besides saying all dolphins rape is like saying all humans rape. It's a few individual sadistic dolphins/humans that do it.
>>2151246
probably a lot of sonic fanfiction
>>2151269
what separates us from eusocial insects is that our societies are far more flexible on almost every level, unlike insects with low individual intelligence we can communicate complex concepts over fewer generations. Our social tendencies have surpassed DNA in preservation over generations. That is the sole purpose of DNA, to preserve coding past an individuals death.
The only reason we don't have other animals truly equal to the intelligence humans collectively possess is because we are such a generalist species we leave no intellectual niche for other smart animals to grow into. We have taken this spot before birds got the chance.
Cetaceans and cephalopods occupy the under water niche, but cetaceans are migratory animals that wouldn't benefit from building homes because they would be abandoned so quickly, cephalopods don't raise there young making it difficult to pass on knowledge to their progeny.
Our most likely bet for the next civilized species are birds, that have evolved more fine tuned motor-skills with the ability to free up their hands by being able to at-least momentarily support themselves on their wrist bones similar to the way apes can walk on their knuckles. Or a maternal cephalopod that can transition onto land.
>>2152996
Rape is always on their minds.
>>2151104
The moment an animal has the ability to ask me a personal question i will believe they are conscious. Not a question like "can i have that?" Or like "what color am i?" Those aren't really much of a personal questions. Animals don't understand that we have information that they, so they can't ask about it. I want a question like "why is the sky blue?" Or "whats that ball of light inbthe sky? whats it do?" Simple but very effective on determining if an animal is truly aware and intelligent as a human. Only humans have the ability for this critical thinking unless you can prove it to me otherwise.
>>2154313
It is strange. Even the smartest animals seem to not progress from past human toddler stage. Adult human seem to have infinite capacity for knowledge. I don't understand it.
>>2154329
Its not that we have the infinite capacity for knowledge, we actually seek knowledge and understanding. Animals do not seek understanding. They have the ability to learn as much as we can and even some have elevated learning rates. Its just they never pass that phase of human infancy where they believe everything that they know is everything thats out there and nobody else knows more than that untill it sees or is shown. It will never seek out new information on purpose. It's always fascinated me how we are the "ONLY" creature known to humans to have such critical thinking on this planet. Why? Even the neanderthal humans that lived along side of modern humans for a few centuries we thought to not have critical thinking. Hence why modern humans were able to eventually surpass them and literally hunt them to extinction.
>>2151211
Are you saying rape isn't emotional anon?
>>2154336
You mean breed out, right? It's slight, but there's still Neanderthal DNA in the gene pool.
How do you know when a bird can recognize themselves in a mirror? Do they just not react or think it's another bird?
>>2154852
They place a sticker on the birds neck, so that they can only see it in the mirror.
If the bird tries to remove the sticker after seeing itself in the mirror, then it recognises its reflection.
Tbh the test is pretty flawed.
>>2151215
Aliens that explore the universe and seek to makecontact with other planets (like we do), yes.
Aliens at all, no.
Think about it for a second.
>>2151269
>in general people expect for animals to be talking in human words to consider the speech to be intelligent, like literally in english.
People think it's weirdthat I haven't taught my birds English, but instead react to othe noises they make... I whistle and make puckering noises because they responded to that better when they were babbies, and the moment someone other than my housemates or family realise I'm communicating with them I get 'Oh my God can they talk?"
Like what the fuck else are they doing if they're reacting in a manner that's intended to elicit understanding from the other communicating party?
Anyway I know you're arguing for that point, so we're in agreement, but I felt like contributing.
>>2154694
No, we hunted them to extinction. They were used eventually as slaves and but mostly just lived along side of the modern humans for a long while till modern humans made better tools and weapons to take them as slaves. Its the same concept at when Europeans had slaves they would mix every now and again with the slaves cuz humans are fairly promiscuous. So with that in mind we would see some dna still within ourselves. If we were to breed them out completely we'd have alot more dna present.
>>2155057
>No, we hunted them to extinction. They were used eventually as slaves and but mostly just lived along side of the modern humans for a long while till modern humans made better tools and weapons to take them as slaves. Its the same concept at when Europeans had slaves they would mix every now and again with the slaves cuz humans are fairly promiscuous. So with that in mind we would see some dna still within ourselves. If we were to breed them out completely we'd have alot more dna present.
[citation needed]
why do /pol/ idiots feel compelled to fling shit at any intelligent comment
>>2155061
Its called read the many articles about neanderthal and modern humans living side by side. There are also documentaries that explain it as well. I shouldn't have to have all the links bookmarked for random shit you can look up yourself on GOOGLE. They have even had a documentary way back on history channel before they changed to reality TV.
>>2155057
I'm struggling to understand how prehistoric, pre-agricultural people would even make use of slaves, let alone interspecific slaves. Do you mean purely as sexual slaves? (Suppose it would explain Neanderthal mtDNA still being around)
>>2155015
Wouldn't the bird be able to feel it and try to remove it the moment you put it on?
>>2151222
Africans are only less intelligent when it comes to every conceivable measure of intelligence.
They are behind the rest of the world in language, learning ability, art, math, empathy, and foresight.
It's incredibly childish to take a straw hut an animal made and say, "no human could ever build anything this well."
>>2155594
they don't try to remove it when it is black
>>2154005
#notalldolphins
>>2155047
>implying the NASA is actually interested in contacting aliens instead of just wasting our precious tax money
>>2155728
Africans used to be kings and things like that, actually.
>>2155065
Because it's 4chan. It's sad that no boards are free from morons flinging shit even when it's completely unrelated.
>>2156355
kek'd
>>2152996
Built
to
Rape
>>2154336
Neanderthals were also not very energy efficient.
>>2151201
>I know that most people will consider that human intelligence it's true intelligence and the rest of the animal kingdom can fuck off, but that's as dumb as claiming that america is #1.
stopped reading
1. human intelligence IS #1. we are essentially walking gods among the animal kingdom.
2. america IS #1. fuck off yurostink.
>>2155057
>No, we hunted them to extinction. They were used eventually as slaves
are you dumb? serious question. this is pure conjecture. you have no idea whether this happened or not.
>>2155066
>many articles
how about zero?
>documentaries
lol
>I shouldn't have to have all the links
lmao the burden of proof is on you tho
i wish you had a trip so i could filter you and not have to read this sort of stupid shit
Why not teach your local crows prostitution? They do have culture, so once you teach a few they'll all learn in a few years.
>>2159762
How?
>>2151201
>Builds a rocket using a precise amount of materials and then launches it into space using precise trajectory to land it on the fucking moon while being able to communicate with the astronauts
>Not #1
