Opinion on cloning?
Will we ever see extinct species like woolly mammoth return?
yeah sure lmao
let me know how it goes trying to get complete dna from fossils
>>2022128
>fossils
Except actual mammoth bones and teeth have been found
They only went extinct like 2000 years ago
Bring back tasmanian tigers please and then let us domesticate them.
I finally have time to do what I've always wanted: write the Great American Novel. Mine is about a futuristic amusement park where dinosaurs are brought to life through advanced cloning techniques. I call it "Billy and the Cloneasaurus".
>>2022141
Here's the cover
>>2022124
I can guarantee that in the future, we'll be researching and perfecting techniques in cloning until we get past all the ethics against it. I'm positive we'll get a "mammoth" eventually.
I imagine it would be easier to make an elephant that looks like a mammoth.
>>2022240
>elephant that looks like a mammoth.
Through generations of selective breeding? I read not too long ago some Korean scientists have completed a genetic sequence for mammoths
They'll be back in a decade I bet
>>2022243
>some Korean scientists have completed a genetic sequence for mammoths
it was the Swedes.
>They'll be back in a decade I bet
I'd love to take that bet.
>>2022250
This is what I read
http://www.techinsider.io/sooam-biotechs-is-bringing-back-the-mammoth-2015-9
>>2022221
"We'll get a mammoth"
This makes me happy.
>>2022253
yeah, they've been publishing that same tripe for over 20 years now.
>>2022124
not anytime soon and certainly not in western countries mostly because
>MUH ETHICS
>>2022279
there aren't any ethical problems with it.
the problem is we don't have a mother that won't reject the embryo.
the best we can currently hope for is a hybrid mammoth/elephant, and even then we probably don't have a mother that will carry it.
>>2022279
there's also the problem that we can't make a complete strand of DNA from fragments, or from a printed sequence. We don't actually have complete mammoth DNA. We just have enough parts to know what a complete strand looks like.
>>2022283
Yes there are ethical problems with it.
The environments that supported these mammoths have disappeared a long time ago.
>>2022290
sure, just like science won't keep polar bears in a zoo because it's not a good copy of their native environment.
or penguins or lions or any other animal.
>>2022290
I hate that argument.
>that is the taiga
We did not yet fuck the plantet taht much
>>2022296
the other problem is it assumes we'd resurrect the mammoth in order to place it back in the wild.
I'm not sure why anyone would think this.
>>2022286
We have the full genome of woolly mammoths and it would be possible for an elephant mother to have a mammoth baby.
I seriously don't understand, how some billionaire oil magnate did not already get a cloned mammoth.
>>2022298
Can you imagine the SHITTON of money a zoo with a mammoth would make? It would not make sense to put them back into the wild. Maybe some really fenced big park or something like that, but not nature.
>>2022300
>We have the full genome of woolly mammoths
on paper
you can't just shove a printout of the mammoth genome up an elephant's cooch and have it magically turn into DNA.
>it would be possible for an elephant mother to have a mammoth baby
no
>>2022302
>on paper
>what is CRISPR
>posting about genetics
>never had a course on genetics
fuck off.
>>2022302
>no
they're closely related to asian elephants
>take asian elephant ovum
>remove nucleus
>insert GMO nucleus with mammoth genes
>elephant gives bith to mammoth (or mammoth/elephant hybrid depending on how you produced the mammoth genetic material)
>>2022305
>>what is CRISPR
not what you think it is, obviously
>>2022310
go be a NEET somewhere else
>>2022309
>they're closely related to asian elephants
doesn't actually matter.
most animals will reject any tissue from another animal of the same species, let alone transplants from entirely different species.
>>2022311
>oh no he disagrees with me!
>shall I find a citation to back up my lies?
>or should I call him names and tell him to fuck off?
>>2022312
0/10 reading comprehension
>>2022313
>arguing with NEETS
>even looking up citations
top banter, I have better things to do.
google it
>>2022314
no, you just don't understand the problem.
cells from the mammoth will enter the elephant's bloodstream. This will result in the elephant's immune system attacking the mammoth fetus, and aborting it.
>>2022317
>cells from the mammoth will enter the elephant's bloodstream
>what is a placenta
>>2022318
>>what is a placenta
less than 100% effective is what it is.
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2633676/
>>2022316
>Saturday morning cartoons forum.
>I have better things to do
Somehow I don't believe you.
I understand not wanting to kill off species because of our own actions, but isn't reviving extinct species and maintaining endangered ones kind of fucking with nature?
I mean, countless ones of have extinct throughout history, and yet we seem to want to keep and revive as many as possible.
>>2022330
it depends a bit on whether we're the main reason they went extinct.
it could be argued that we should refrain from causing the extinction of other species for our own good. It probably doesn't matter though, we aren't doing much of anything else for our own good yet.
>>2022325
>Saturday morning cartoons forum.
I don't know what you're talking about but ok.
btw it's wednesday evening
>>2022330
fucking with nature is not inherently wrong
>>2022336
hownew.ru
not even that anon but you obviously have not been here long
>>2022336
lol
reddit called, they want their idiot back
>>2022336
>resorting to ad hominem and crying when you get callled out on it
>on a mongolian tea leaf reading bbs
>>2022351
>resorting to ad hominem
>le epic fallacy maymay xD
>>2022366
>>>/reddit/
>>2022368
can you argue without using memes?
>>2022369
nobody's arguing with you, they're laughing at your stupid ass.
welcome to 4chan
Cloning extinct animals is extremely dangerous. There is this really great documentary on when they cloned dinosaurs called Jurassic Park. To summerize: a lot of people died and velociraptors are scary as shit. I thought as a world society we would have learned our lesson after that disaster, but they did it three more times.
>>2022394
>There is this really great documentary
Kek
>>2022331
What about if elephants go extinct from hunting
No harm bringing them back?
>>2022423
You don't understand those >MUH ETHICS people...
>>2022424
Unless you bring the elephants back to refill the ecological nische left behind, the only reason for wanting to bring them back is also >MUH ETHICS.
>>2022428
Those people will ruin your fun, no matter how you put it.
>>2022431
nobody's ruining your fun, dipshit.
we haven't cloned mammoths because we don't know how.
full stop.
>>2022429
>has no idea about ethics
You have no idea, what a pain in the ass it is to deal with those people and how much time is wasted on bureaucratical shit just to get permission for a minor experiment.
>>2022330
Biodiversity is important for a healthy ecosystem
>>2022435
so cite me the last paper you did using live animals.
I'll just hold my breath and wait.
>>2022330
because we killed most of them and some ecosystems are having problems now. seeds don't get thispersed, too many herbivores etc
bringing them back would be the logical thing to do in some of those cases
>>2022438
>thispersed
>thithperthed
>>2022437
If I wanted to attention whore I'd just get a trip
wait all you want
>>2022442
Eyyy
>>2022442
>I'd just get a trip
it's just a matter of time.
the only reason you don't have one yet is because you keep saying stupid, ridiculously incorrect things. Not that that stops most of our trips.
We should bring back the European lion desu senpai
>>2022489
We should also bring back the Pachycrocuta.
There's already Pleistocene Park in Russia, where they one day hope to house woolly mammoths. They have also been working to ' recreate the northern subarctic steppe grassland ecosystem that flourished in the area during the last glacial period.' So we at least have one place to put them, as small as it might be.
Interspecific pregnancy has it's problems but honestly, I think its a benefit if we can continue to hammer out the kinks. Not just for bringing back extinct animals from thousands of years ago, but even recently extinct animals, ones on the verge of extinction and breeding programs since it's pretty risky to ship out your breeding adults to other countries.
As for an elephant rejecting a 'mammoth' embryo, they could just work on having it grow alongside an actual asian elephant embryo since thats what seems to help with rejection(such as the panda embryos that were inserted to a cat, the cat died of something unrelated though). Twins from elephants is extremely rare but it does happen.
>>2022330
>we seem to want to keep and revive as many as possible.
How/why do you assume that? Who do you know that is trying to bring back or even mentioned bringing back diprotodon? We don't have the slightest ability to bring back most things. We're focused on wooly mammoths because we have found complete frozen ones and frozen soft tissue(and we are still finding more), the very last mammoths went extinct only about 5000 years ago, we could actually take care of it and we at least have an idea of what to expect if we were to exceed. It's very different from bringing back say, a spinosaurus when we can't even fucking agree on how it walked. The only animal we have ever revived from extinction was pyrenean ibex, and it only lived for abou 7 minutes due to lung defects. Going through lists of what we are trying/tried/want to try to bring back, it's not too bad. Passenger pigeons, health hens, aurochs, etc.
>>2022640
>they could just work on having it grow alongside an actual asian elephant embryo
I think the current strategy is to splice tiny bits of mammoth genes into elephant gametes and see what survives.
if something works, we add in a couple more genes and keep going. If something doesn't work we skip that part and try something else.
this would also help with the problem of us having only fragmented, racemized DNA to work with. Rebuild the genome one chunk at a time. Of course that would mean we're probably over a century away from having even a 50% hybrid.
>>2022644
Like this?
>By March 2015, woolly mammoth genes had been copied into the genome of an Asian elephant, using the CRISPR DNA editing technique. Genetic segments from frozen mammoth specimens, including genes for the ears, subcutaneous fat, and hair attributes, were copied into the DNA of skin cells from a modern elephant. This marked the first time that woolly mammoth genes had been functionally active since the species became extinct.
I mean, I guess I'm down for it if it at least 'eventually' works. I'd really just hate for them to give up and just have an elephant that only 'looks' like a woolly mammoth, which is why I don't really care for the quagga project or the heckcattle.
>>2022645
yeah, it looks promising and really the tech can only improve.
the main problem is dat 2-year gestation period.
>>2022647
Oh yeah, that sucks. Even if there's just a slight hiccup that's easily fixed for next time, you still have to wait and this shit isn't cheap.
>>2022657
we're probably only a decade or so from full-on molecular printers and such. It'll get cheaper but there's still the rejection problem which we have to eventually deal with. Answers are out there waiting to be found though.
>>2022130
The last mammoths died out like 8000 years ago man
>>2022661
DNA has a half life of 512 years, which means its technically possible to get viable DNA from bones up to 6.8 MYA.
If my terrible math skills are correct that means at best any given sample could could contain up to 19.5%~ viable Mammoth DNA and considering how common Mammoth remains are and the quality of some of these remains I don't think cloning a Mammoth is unfeasable
>>2022671
only works if we assume fragmentation is the only taphonomic process, and racemization plays no part.
>>2022672
>it's going to be expensive as fuck to keep them alive.
from a purely practical standpoint it shouldn't cost any more than an elephant to feed and house.
>>2022661
No. Wrangel Island had the last mammoths, which were more recent than that which was like, 3661 years ago. They weren't true dwarf mammoths but they were just smaller mammuthus primigenius.
Though I'd totally be down for some tiny mammoths.
>>2022672
there is that russian experiment where they turned tundra into steppe grassland by introducing horses musk oxen and bison
http://www.ottawalife.com/2013/02/the-zimovs-restoration-of-the-mammoth-era-ecosystem-and-reversing-global-warming/
>>2022675
playing devils advocate but I'm pretty sure feeding and housing an elephant isn't cheap.
>>2022677
that's still assuming we'd want to release them into the wild. I don't see any ethical dilemma in cloning mammoths, but introducing them into the wild is a whole different ball of wax.
>resurrect mammoths
>Chinese want mammoth ivory for penis
>mammoths extinct again
>thank China
>>2022678
true, but hundreds of thousands of zoos do it anyways.
>>2022680
>wouldn't they overheat in the summer and die.
nah, those suckers lived in a huge range of latitudes and climates.
>>2022677
I mentioned that earlier. While it'd be boss as fuck for them to be able to live in the 'wild', you'd really have to set up security which is also expensive(and that place is non-profit). They do have a bit of an issue due to people poaching moose, so not only do you have to worry about someone shooting your mammoths but also people would be flocking to try and get a glimpse of them.
>>2022684
>I figured they'd migrate north during the summer.
not really a problem for a zoo.
just keep them in a climate-controlled enclosure if/when necessary.
I doubt very much we'd be releasing them into the wild. They probably wouldn't survive, but even if they did it raises some interesting questions about fucking with the environment purely for the sake of fucking with it.
>>2022682
>>2022684
Plenty of mammoth species lived in warmer climates but I don't think woolly mammoths were well adapted for anywhere warm. They were just too built for the cold, and even produced a sort of 'anti-freeze' in their blood similar to many arctic animals today.
They would be more expensive to house if you wanted them to be comfortable in captivity. Hell, even a polar bear in an Argentina zoo died of heat stroke in their winter.
>>2022679
I don't think the first cloned mammoths could live wild anyway its been 10000 years since they roamed the area. at best I think they would be semi wild in a sort of managed national park style thing for the first few generations until they adapt behaviorally, and on chinks couldn't the same argument be made for conserving extant elephant populations? Whats the point of stabilizing African elephant populations when chinks are just gonna drive them back to the brink of extinction for aphrodisiacs?(I'm not seriously suggesting this. Its just for arguments sake)
>>2022688
perhaps, but it's still an expense many zoos are willing to take on for polar bears and penguins.
they'd make far more money off of mammoths. At least until the novelty wore off. It doesn't seem like that expense would be seen as too much.
businesses don't really judge money the way you and I might. There's plenty of zoos with yearly budgets bigger than what we will make in our entire lifetimes.
>>2022687
we're talking about sustainability, not whether it's possible to do.
keeping elephants is already expensive as fuck, imagine elephants in a climate controlled enclosure.
>>2022690
>Whats the point of stabilizing African elephant populations when chinks are just gonna drive them back to the brink of extinction
we just try to keep the populations going long enough for the chinks to die or learn.
it probably won't work, people are retarded.
>>2022686
fair point, but if they seriously got a batch of cloned mammoths id imagine there funding would go through the roof and there is the possibility of scalping tourists with the prospect of a 'Mammoth safari'
>>2022693
>imagine elephants in a climate controlled enclosure.
don't need to imagine it, that's exactly what they live in most places. They don't handle freezing well, and most of the world freezes.
>>2022693
Imagine the revenue from tourists and charging scientists to study a cloned mammoth
>>2022700
>heating is a whole lot cheaper than cooling.
doesn't actually matter to a business with tens of millions in its annual budget, part of which is already spent refrigerating polar bears, seals and penguins.
>>2022702
it does matter, zoos are often unsustainable and we're talking about sustainability.
>polar bears, seals and penguins.
mammoths are a whole lot bigger.
what's going to happen is, they're kept in a zoo until the zoo goes bankrupt, then all of the animals are 'relocated' and then the mammoths are bought by some chinks and turn into viagra soup.
>>2022703
>we're talking about sustainability.
you are anyways.
sustainability isn't actually a goal of capitalism.
>>2022705
no shit.
even if they manage to clone mammoths it would end up being Sue 2.0
>>2022703
>it does matter, zoos are often unsustainable and we're talking about sustainability.
>London zoo
>oldest zoo in the world
>been open to the public since 1847
>ZSL receives no state funding and relies on 'Fellows' and 'Friends' memberships, entrance fees and sponsorship to generate income.
>been ran independently for nearly 200 years
>>2022711
Disney will buy the patent.
but just like Sue and the BHI, that money will eventually wind up supporting a lot more research.
>>2022141
Cau please leave
>>2022715
Im pretty sure you can't patent cloning an extinct animal, I suppose you could modify the DNA slightly then patent but then its not really a Mammoth
>>2022714
often doesn't mean all.
>>2022718
>I suppose you could modify the DNA slightly then patent but then its not really a Mammoth
there's no way we'll make an actual 100% pure mammoth with our current technology.
Elephants are expensive as fuck(just under pandas) and even zoos have trouble with them due to their costs. Not many zoos have them, and they are slowly being phased out due to the cost of them.
Mammoths would in fact, be more expensive than your regular asian or african elephants. It's millions on millions between enclosures and upkeep. Not only that, but it'd have to be AZA approved. Now they require elephants to be in herds, so some zoos had to get rid of their already existing elephants because they couldn't afford the space or cost of more elephants.
Not to forget to mention that if we aren't the ones producing them - just renting a mammoth would be ridiculous and risky to important. Just look at pandas. They get rented out for what, one million a year in a 10 year contract from China? And with their upkeep, they are the most expensive animal in the US to care for which is just above elephants.
>>2022714
They also kept their animals in tiny concrete, barren cages and barred from their shelters so they would be permanently on display. They were almost forced to close in 1991. Sure, they're much better now but zoos back in the day had shit conditions and high mortality rates. It is MUCH more expensive to run a zoo today.
>>2022720
Throw enough time and money at something and it'll get done.
If rejection in utero is a problem, artificial wombs are a possibility.
>>2022679
kek
>>2022679
>Chinese want mammoth ivory for penis
isnt in rino horn?
>>2022672
I'm a tripfag too!
>>2022640
>extinct animals, ones on the verge of extinction and breeding programs since it's pretty risky to ship out your breeding adults to other countries.
this
This is how I see it. We have seed banks for millions of seeds so we can always reproduce these plants if they were to go extinct.
Why not DNA banks to reclone animals which have gone extinct?
>>2022640
>went extinct only about 5000 years ago,
less than that man. Egyptians were building pyramids when the last mammoths went extinct
>>2023156
Egyptians were building pyramids about 5000 years ago and stopped about 4000 years ago, m8.
>>2023232
Oh
I though mammoths lived on those Russian islands until Jesus killed them 2000 years ago
>>2022640
>the cat died of something unrelated though
you wanna bet
>>2022124
I say the first one they bring back should be the dodo.
But let's not kid ourselves.
Scientists are interested in stuff like cloning only because they want to prove that they can do it. We are not fucking interested in helping mankind; get that through your head. Scientists are afflicted with the same potential shortcomings of character as any douchebag politician.
Of course we will reconstruct extinct species. Whether by taking original cells, or by engineering the DNA from scratch, we'll do it -- in time. And, as usual, the odds are that none of the successful parties will have given any thought as to how this technology will be adapted for warfare, or terrorism, or greed. Fortunately for me, that's not going to be my problem as that'll be long after my lifetime; all you kids can worry about the bullshit you think you know how to control.
>>2023355
>technology will be adapted for warfare, or terrorism, or greed.
Imagine ISIS unleashes veloca raptors into new york
>>2023338
Well, it was pneumonia. It doesn't mention whether or not it was given immune suppression drugs and if so, technically it still didn't die because something else was implanted into its uterus.
>>2023355
/x/ is that you?
I just want to stick lizards and bat wings together to make little dragon chimeras
>>2022124
Gentech here. Ask me about cloning and other molecular techniques
>>2023329
2000 BC is still 4000 years.
>>2023431
I'm bad with numbers
>>2023416
Just fucking tell us
>>2022733
Release the mammoths into the wild in Russia
>>2023416
I've been deadset on pursuing gentech my whole life, and just graduated. What's the most effective way to get started? Like what schools and majors are needed to start and all that jazz. I've had trouble finding advice.
Why does everyone care so much about the wooly mammoth?
I want to see something more impressive return, such as the Haast's Eagle.
>>2023922
we don't.
we just happen to have a lot of good DNA from the things.
>>2023922
mammoths are the poster boy because
1.) there fluffy
2.)there as iconic as the dinosaurs
3.)there is shit tons of frozen dead mammoth in siberian permafrost
pesonally id love to clone moa, elephant birds and them extinct polynesian land crocodiles
>>2023151
Its fucking everything. Chinease are fucking dumb and Rhinos are just the popular one you hear about.
>>2024504
Holy shit, I never knew of those birds
Cloning would be a major boon to breeding seeing eye dogs.
>>2022130
mammoth blood was found almost completely conserved in (alaska i think) , the bodies were frozen but the blood was fine due to natural frost protection (like some arctic fish)
it is hard , but possible to retrieve dna from those blood cells
>>2025125
the DNA still suffers from natural fragmentation, racemization, purination.
and you're right, getting DNA from blood is difficult. iirc red blood cells don't contain DNA?
>>2025135
Can they fill in the blanks with elephant DNA?
>>2025251
We'll use anteater DNA instead.
>>2025252
You know how there are seed banks for all seeds? Imagine DNA banks for endangered animals. Extinction won't be a thing anymore
>>2023922
Because no one has a haast's eagle. I think all we have from them are some bones.
We do however have some moa soft tissue but it's mummified. We have a much better chance with frozen shit from mammoths.
>>2025385
Wait until the arctic isn't fucked and bring polar bears back?
>>2025385
>Extinction won't be a thing anymore
yes it would.
we can't raise most animals in captivity.
>>2025780
Yeah but if animals are declining in population we can just clone a bunch of tigers and release them into the wild with other tigers
>>2025797
but there would be less and less difference in gene pool the more we clone so more chance of inbreed
>>2025797
they're extinct for a reason, they'll just die again.
that or incest.
>>2025827
Elephants tho
Might go extinct from hunting
If Chinese stop buying ivory for penis we could bring them back
>>2025831
the focus should be on animals that actually play major roles in ecosystems, not ornamental animals like elephants and pandas.
if you'd release them at any point the chinese would just come after them.
>>2025841
Then clone whales, they're very important
humans need cloning for isografts
>>2025808
Well isn't that basically an issue with lions right now in the wild? Don't see how it'd be too different
>>2025897
almost everything is more important than elephants and pandas.
the only contribution they have to their environment is shitting around.
>>2025950
because most lions in the wild aren't cloned.
>>2025950
There's a lion farm in Zimbabwe I think used for canned hunts
I'm sure they're all inbred
