A couple of months ago this girl started working at my workplace and I immediately took a liking to her. The feeling was somewhat reciprocated but things started going downhill precipitously once I let her know that I was interested in something beyond friendship.
While we were getting to know each other she openly admitted that she had BPD and was in therapy because of it. A part of that might be confirmation bias, but from what I've Googled about the disorder, and what she told me about it herself, certain behaviors of hers are easily explained by it.
For one, we've been on a roller-coaster ever since I told her about my romantic interest in her. We'd go from daily phone calls and chats to "I don't think we can be friends anymore" during the course of a week. Then when I kept my distance and cut off all non-work-related contact I'd hear something along the lines of "let's not go to extremes, we can still be friends".
OP continued:
The most problematic incident was around 2 months ago when she went upstairs and told someone she "had a problem with me", all over some misunderstanding that led to her feeling "ambushed" or "smothered". I've got a good enough reputation that nobody seriously suspected me of harassing her, plus she later recanted her accusation, but I still needed this sort of bullshit like I need a hole in the head.
Right now we don't keep in touch at all outside of work, while at work we'll sometimes have a chat over coffee to keep up appearances. At the same time I occasionally get messages from her saying... "do you still like me?" or "we should meet up after work" when our shifts overlap.
I don't blame her for any of this situation since most of this behavior is explained by her BPD - plus I admittedly rushed the relationship question early on. What I'm wondering now is how to handle it.
If it were just up to me, I'd still try to be friends with her. I'm not sure I can trust her though, and almost everyone somewhat familiar with the situation (though nobody at work knows about her disorder, at least not from me) is advising me to cut off all contact. Even the cutting off option isn't as simple or obvious as it may sound. I'm afraid that if I reject her too clearly there might be another unreasonable reaction. I'm basically between a rock and a hard place here.
Hope some of you have similar experience and can offer some constructive feedback.
>>17246115
>almost everyone somewhat familiar with the situation (though nobody at work knows about her disorder, at least not from me) is advising me to cut off all contact
Listen to them
Please tell me I'm not the only person who initially misread OP's pic as "Friends are the rapists you can drink with".
>>17246113
Short answer: RUN AWAY! DO NOT STICK YOUR DICK IN CRAZY!
Long answer: She’s going to keep using her BPD as a get-out-of-jail-free card for any of the bullshit she pulls. Be ready for this. If you want to still be friends, you can, but you’d better be damn sure that you set boundaries that protect yourself from her, and do not allow her to cross said boundaries under any circumstances.
Avoid her at all costs dude. People with BPD will only use you and treat you like shit for their own gain. Even trying to be friends she'll try to control you and get jealous and spiteful when you talk to other women. It's not worth the stress.
>>17246132
>but you’d better be damn sure that you set boundaries that protect yourself from her, and do not allow her to cross said boundaries under any circumstances.
Can you be more specific?
I've considered hanging out with her only when there's more people but this might be kind of transparent, like I'd be telling her that we need a chaperone of sorts for me to trust her. It's also difficult to invite her to work-related outings since she's generally disliked (we work with some pretty immature sons of bitches who will easily treat someone as an outcast unless they're already very outgoing).
>>17246129
That's the joke...
>>17246145
>get jealous and spiteful when you talk to other women.
So far I haven't noticed this and she had plenty of occasions to get jealous. Unless she's been talking shit about me behind my back and it hasn't reached me yet.
>>17246115
You need to set clear, unambiguous boundaries and stick to them. Thats the only way to manage a Borderline. You should not engage in anything romantic, you should not confide in her anything that you would not want others to know or anything that could be used against her, and you should limit your overall exposure. If you feel yourself being pulled in, pressured, or in love you need to flee.
Its great that she's in treatment. Maybe in a few years she'll be capable of having meaningful relationships. Right now, though, she's one of the more dangerous kinds of patients that come through my office.
>>17246129
Haha holy shit I was so confused at what it was trying to get at until I read your post. Whoops.
>>17246226
That does sound more serious and ominous than I imagined.
>>17246273
Borderline Personality Disorder is in Cluster B. So is sociopathy. On balance, I'd say sociopaths are less dangerous because they're more predictable.
>>17246129
I CANT STOP LAUGHING
>>17246303
So what you're saying is that BPD patients should basically avoid relationships in the first place?
>>17246312
Superficial friendships and deeper friendships with people important enough that they can control themselves are OK if they're in treatment, with the amount of interaction slowly increasing as they work through they're symptoms. If they're not in treatment, though, I'd advise anyone to avoid them.
>>17246113
anon, you must listen
i have no time to tell you my story, or any of the numerous other stories ive heard. but you must trust me in this- get. the. fuck. away. from. her. asap. she is a co worker, so obviously youll still have to interact with her to some extent, but keep it professional. unless you have already, do not let her know where you live. these people are dangerous, anon. not necessarily in a physical sense (although this is quite possible), but more so in a fuck-your-shit-up-really-bad kind of sense. you have been warned, anon. i hope, for your sake, that you proceed wisely and cautiously.
>>17246319
I know that she's in treatment but of course I wouldn't be able to guess how well that is working out for her.
In your opinion: how symptomatic of BPD are the issues I described in this thread in the first place?
>>17246374
I'd be very much interested in reading some stories about friendships or even relationships with BPD patients.
>>17246129
Are you me?
>>17246733
Different anon but if this thread is still up 12 hours from now I'll post my experience dating a girl with BPD for a year and a half. It almost ruined/ended my life and it took my friends intervening and getting me the hell away from her to save me. Phones dying and I gotta sleep though
>>17246779
Right, if the thread dies then I might post another one as I'm still looking for as much feedback as I can get, not just from you. So make sure to look for anything with "borderline" in the title when you get the chance.
>>17246113
>DO NOT STICK YOUR DICK IN CRAZY!
>>17246800
I appreciate dank memes as much as the next guy, but I was rather looking for constructive feedback here. Thanks anyway.
>>17246312
Yeah. They just end up hurting people they're with. They have no empathy. They'll cheat on you and blame it on you for saying a girl on TV looked cute. I know, I was with one.
>>17246877
That sounds literally insane but then again it IS a disorder...
>>17246845
Its not a meme you thick skulled shit.
>>17247718
It's a tired catchphrase that contributes nothing to the discussion though. Potato, potato.
I was in a relationship for a year and a half with a woman who had not been diagnosed with anything, but who I strongly suspect had BPD (a psychiatrist friend of mine agrees, though he never sat down and analysed her).
It was fantastic for the first six months, and then it all went to shit, and I stuck with her because I kept thinking she would go back to acting the way she did for the beginning of our relationship. It just took me forever to realise that the abusive relationship I had found myself in was the new normal.
Some particularly unpleasant aspects and/or missed red flags:
She was unwilling to reciprocate. For example, for about a month before she had a big exam, I cooked dinner and cleaned up the kitchen every night. Later, when I asked her to do the same for me for two days, she complained bitterly.
She always wanted to play games (board games & video games), but got extremely angry if she didn't win, and withheld sex or gave me the silent treatment (this was a 28-year-old woman). When I eventually told her I didn't want to play games with her anymore, she got even more upset and accused me of not caring for her.
She tried very hard to get me to cut certain of my friends out of my life, getting jealous as fuck if I went to hang out with them, especially (but not exclusively) for women.
After she game up smoking weed (because she wanted to focus more on school), she tried to get me to quit too by telling me that she thought I had a substance abuse problem, even though I smoked far less than she had (that's fucking gaslighting, BTW).
cont
>>17247745
About once every few months, she would get upset at something or other and tell me that she wanted to break up with me. I usually responded with "ok," because by that point I wasn't happy in the relationship anymore, which was NOT the answer she was looking for. She would then accuse me of being unwilling to fight for us and would promise to work things out. It was only later that I realised she was repeatedly using the threat of breaking up to try and get me to change some behaviour. I think this was why, when I finally ended it, she was so confused that I wasn't trying to negotiate. She made all sorts of promises, not realising that I wasn't trying to get her to change, I just wanted to leave.
In the 18 months we were together, I saw her get angry enough at 5 separate people to completely cut them out of her life. The last one was my mother, and she tried to get me to cut off contact with her as well (this is actually what ended the relationship).
-----
So yeah, set clear and VERY FIRM boundries with this person. The fact that you know she has BPD is going to help you a lot (I didn't know, and I think it would have made things much easier if I had). The fact that she's in treatment is good, but as you've already seen, there's still work to be done.
I want to emphasise that BPD is an ILLNESS. People who have BDP suffer from violent mood swings that they cannot control, and no matter how much you think it sucks to be in a relationship with a person who has BPD, it sucks even more to have BPD yourself and try to make a relationship work.
If you want to make a go of it, I recommend very, very highly finding a local BPD support group - they'll often have resources for friends & family members of people with the disorder as well.
Good luck, anon.
>>17247730
Not that guy but it's an often used phrase because it's 100% true.
>contributes nothing to the discussion
>completely valid, sensible, tried & true advice is meaningless
So what exactly was your reason for making this thread? If you just wanted to swap stories about crazy bitches you that's fine.
>>17246145
Stop judging people with BPD as worthless, you judgemental idiot. Having BPD does not automatically mean they're not worthy of a relationship with someone
A lot of people here are saying things like, I was once with someone with a mental health issue, therefore I am an authority on people with a mental health issue. No. Everyone is different and cope in different ways. Sick of hearing people so full of shit, ready to write people off because of a problem and stigmatising anyone who may have a problem like it. Thanks for reminding me to avoid judgemental bigots though, to be sure I'll be steering clear of a relationship with you
>>17246132
Oh look, crazy cunt alert. Avoid This guy. He's a fucking liability
>>17246115
Sounds like she really likes you. Make it clear you are interested, she may need more reassurance
>>17247770
huh?? I don't understand...?
>>17247757
This
>>17247766
This
>>17247746
>I want to emphasise that BPD is an ILLNESS. People who have BDP suffer from violent mood swings that they cannot control, and no matter how much you think it sucks to be in a relationship with a person who has BPD, it sucks even more to have BPD yourself and try to make a relationship work.
+1
It is not at all contradictory to believe that a) this is a good person who is dealing with a brutal mental illness and who needs support, and b) a romantic relationship with this person is a bad idea. These are not mutually exclusive.
>>17246226
This is very patronising and your advice is terrible. You're saying she does not deserve romance and suggesting game playing and abandonment tactics. I would run a mile from advice like this
>>17247753
>completely valid, sensible, tried & true advice is meaningless
Its validity is a matter of a discussion and it's still a cliché literally everyone knows about. Maybe I shouldn't give the guy flack about it because his intentions were presumably good but tired catchphrases or simply going "don't!" hardly constitute productive feedback.
So what I'm saying here is that posts like >>17246120 or >>17246800 are bordering on shitposting, while posts like >>17246226 or >>17247746 are actually productive.
>>17247746
>If you want to make a go of it, I recommend very, very highly finding a local BPD support group - they'll often have resources for friends & family members of people with the disorder as well.
That's great advice, I hadn't thought of it.
>it sucks even more to have BPD yourself
Yeah a bunch of my non-work friends - the only ones I told about her BPD - seem to trivialize or even ignore this fact. Part of me wants to get close to her (not necessarily romantically, though I have to admit that that thought still crosses my mind occasionally) out of empathy. She's somewhat ostracized at work barely making any friends, so naturally I feel sorry for her and would like to help her out.
What's holding me out is my fear of her starting more shit at work like she tried earlier.
>>17247757
They aren't just pulling this out of their ass, it's from experience. Sorry it sucks for you to be life ruiner, sucks more to have your life RUINED.
Saving someone from that is more important than your need to say "but not EVERYONE just 99%!" The bitch OP is describing already has shown herself to be manipulative and dangerous, she ISNT worthy of a relationship. From your cunty response, I'm guessing you are too, and you're upset that people know it.
>>17247784
I'm a mental health nurse and you are very judgemental. You're describing someone who appears to be insecure as a dangerous bitch, and saying that people with BPD should be avoided. My advice to you is get your facts straight, and you might learn something helpful, before giving your opinion that is clearly unhelpful
>>17247798
I really don't get what your stance is on this.
>just because someone has a disorder doesn't mean they should be alone
Ok I can somewhat get on board with that. I would say it's probably for the best they get a handle on their own problems before the added stress of trying to juggle a relationship with it though.
>you shouldn't not get involved with someone just because they have a disorder
This is where you sound more judgemental than anyone in this thread. You can't deny that OP is going to encounter a LOT of added stress on top of the normal relationship drama if he gets seriously involved with this woman, especially moreso that she's a coworker. Anyone in his shoes has to decide for themselves if their willing and able to deal with it. Your advice makes it sound like he should just dive in head first and be her emotional crutch because it's the nice thing to do?
>>17246113
therapy doesnt diagnose bpd, psychiatrist does. shes impulsive, bpd is when u have inflated self esteem and then either few hours/days/months feel suicidal
>>17246113
>17246113
and it doesnt impact relationship, it just makes them more needy. she can be coming back cause shes lonely too.
>>17247841
My advice is not to judge someone because they have a diagnosis of BPD. Such a diagnosis is not a measurement of someone's ability to have a relationship and should not exclude someone from having a relationship. If two people want to have a relationship, they should be able to do so without people telling them to run away, calling them crazy, dangerous and that they should avoid romance. It's like telling someone with dyslexia that they don't deserve an education
>>17247878
>It's like telling someone with dyslexia that they don't deserve an education
I really like this analogy.
>>17247860
>and it doesnt impact relationship
Nigger, please.
>>17247878
>If two people want to have a relationship, they should be able to do so without people telling them to run away, calling them crazy, dangerous and that they should avoid romance. It's like telling someone with dyslexia that they don't deserve an education
You're right. So far I've been getting a bunch of really simplistic and dismissing pieces of advice here, and at least once from a supposed therapist no less.
I have to stress one thing here: I'm not saying I even want a relationship with her anymore. I gave up on that because she rejected me once already, and because there's too much potential for problems.
What I'm trying to figure out here is if and how I should look for a middle-ground between getting too involved with her and ignoring her altogether.
My older sister has BPD, and I can definitely say it's impacted her relationships in a really shitty way. She's not a bad person though, and I'm not saying this as her sister. She did some pretty cruel shit to me growing up (she's 6 years my senior), but today she has a steady boyfriend, a job and is currently travelling. Defining another human through their mental illness is terrible.
While of course, if you feel like dating someone with BPD won't work for you, you have every right not to. Please don't feel like you're obligated to "save her" or "be her crutch" because that's gonna be a clusterfuck for you both if you find you're not cut out for supporting her emotionally. Then again though, don't listen to the bullshit "hurr don't stick your dick in crazy" advice. as it's literally a generalisation which implies that the mentally ill are undeserving of love. As someone with a mental illness, I can't begin to explain how worthless that makes me feel (inb4 fuck your feelings, faggot).
The dyslexia analogy mentioned previously is DOUBLEPLUS GOOD. No one should be deprived of a relationship because of their condition, but simultaneously, you shouldn't feel like you need to support her or feel guilty for not wanting something. It sounds like things have gotten off to a bad start, so if you feel like cutting non-necessary contact is best for you, I'm not going to argue with that.
But TL;DR- she's a person. Not a psycho fuck tube,
Just avoid her OP. It's as simple as that. People with BPD have a hard time feeling empathy or being able to see wrong from right. My mother has severe BPD and although I love her, this a woman who stole 50 dollars from her 12 year old son for cigarettes one time. People with BPD are naturally manipulatitave and have trouble feeling empathy for others. If she had BPD and could control it, then whatever but this girl you're talking about has shown herself incapable and will use BPD as an excuse. Just stay far away. You said already that you have a gold rep so dont worry if she's spreading shit
>>17248005
That's valuable input.
>It sounds like things have gotten off to a bad start, so if you feel like cutting non-necessary contact is best for you, I'm not going to argue with that.
That's what I'm still trying to figure out. So far most seems to point me in the direction of cutting off all non-work-related contact.
I mean, she even seems to want this herself. She hasn't messaged me in two months outside of work, and only occasionally or inconsistently while we shared the same shift. If she's still interested she's apparently too proud (or something?) to reach out to me when we're off work, or she isn't interested in this is just a way of teasing me, keeping up appearances, or something else entirely.
I've been half seeing someone with borderline. It's a mess, and I'm trying to cut kill off my feelings best I can.
Last Friday she told me to download an app so she could flirt with me on it.
Saturday night she said she was really scared of me because she liked me so much.
Sunday she sent me dirty stuff, that she needed me sexually.
Monday I saw her, smoked weed with her. She was really touchy feely and kissed me for a couple hours, then later wouldn't let me even touch her. She hugged me goodbye, immediately sending a text after I left saying she really wanted to kiss me goodbye and felt bad.
Wednesday I saw her again. We planned on sex the whole day. Smoked with her again, she said she doesn't know how she feels about me and wants to be just friends, that she "doesn't want to belong to anyone, or anyone to belong to her" right now, accused me of only wanting to hang out with her for sex, when I've been nothing but a gentleman, following her lead for this whole fucking song and dance.
Not much experience, mind you, probably less than OP. But if you don't think you can handle being a patient friend with a person like that, I think it's better to just keep your distance.
>>17248005
No it's a recognition of the fact that it's in OPs best interest to avoid her. He came here asking what was best for him not the crazy bitch who tried to ruin him.
>>17248072
People with BPD are not naturally manipulative or have trouble feeling empathy for others. This is an assumption based on someone who may be be manipulative or lacking empathy. Do not automatically link these characteristics to people who have BPD when those characteristics could apply to anyone
>>17248087
>Not much experience, mind you, probably less than OP.
Nah, that's more experience than I have, actually. We never progressed to anything physical.
My experience is largely consistent with yours though. See:
>accused me of only wanting to hang out with her for sex
She accused me of never being interested in her as a friend - and just having pursued her as a potential girlfriend. This may have been a fair accusation if not for the fact that I tried to stay friends with her, and she was the one who insisted we needed more space.
>>17248099
She's been hesitant about a relationship for reasons you don't even know and you're portraying her as a crazy bitch who tried to ruin him. Stop discriminating
>>17248104
She's said that too, needs space.
Then proceeds to call me every day and gets pissy if I don't respond to texts right away.
Sucks cause I do like her, but I've had bad relationships in the past that destroyed me, and I can't do that again.
>>17248105
>you're portraying her as a crazy bitch who tried to ruin him
Did you read this part?
>>17246115
>The most problematic incident was around 2 months ago when she went upstairs and told someone she "had a problem with me", all over some misunderstanding that led to her feeling "ambushed" or "smothered". I've got a good enough reputation that nobody seriously suspected me of harassing her, plus she later recanted her accusation, but I still needed this sort of bullshit like I need a hole in the head.
I wouldn't quite call this trying to "ruin" me, but it is kind of in that ballpark.
Just to give you some more details regarding that situation:
We had an on-the-job training session scheduled, with me as the trainer and her plus 1 or 2 other persons as trainees. She hadn't checked the schedule properly and somehow got the impression that this was supposed to be individual training, and that I had pulled some strings to place her with me.
She then felt "ambushed" and tried to reschedule, and when asked why she cited having a problem with me, and having to "set boundaries".
So apparently... she thought I was some sort of desperate creep scheduling training sessions so I could put moves on her. Of course, shortly afterwards she acted hurt that I didn't want to be friends with her anymore.
>>17246779
Bumping the thread in case you're back with your story.
OP, I started out in this thread as one of the people telling you to stay away from the crazy chick, but the more you post the clearer you paint the picture that you're far more interested in this girl that you're letting on, far more interested than she is in you (which seems to be very little). Let's break this down:
>we've been on a roller-coaster ever since I told her about my romantic interest. We'd go from daily phone calls to "I don't think we can be friends anymore" during the course of a week. when I kept my distance and cut off all non-work-related contact I'd hear something along the lines of "let's not go to extremes, we can still be friends".
> I admittedly rushed the relationship question early on
doesn't sound like a "roller coaster" at all, sounds like she initially liked you but you were coming on too strong and scared her away and she's naive enough to think you can be friends.
>simply going "don't!" hardly constitute productive feedback.
>So what I'm saying here is that posts like >>17246120 or >>17246800 are bordering on shitposting, while posts like >>17246226 or >>17247746 are actually productive
So the posts telling you to cut your losses are shitposting but the posts that encourage you to proceed are 'productive'.
>I have to stress one thing here: I'm not saying I want a relationship with her anymore. I gave up on that because she rejected me already. I'm trying to figure out if and how I should look for a middle-ground between getting too involved with her and ignoring her
Are you afraid you might accidentally get in a relationship with a woman that doesn't want one with you? Just admit that you want us to condone your pursuit of this girl.
>I mean, she even seems to want this herself. She hasn't messaged me in two months
that sure is some mixed signals there
>she's apparently too proud or something to reach out to me when we're off work
yea man, when a girl doesn't speak to you for 2 months she's just being proud.
>>17246735
this better be some next level bait
>>17246113
op youre already kinda fucked desu.
best thing you can do is friendzone her, you really need to distance yourself from her too. toxic relationships at work can get you fired.
>>17246129
oh fuck, i thought it the rapists part was just a kinda shitty joke, didnt realize it was meant to be therapist
>>17248548
sorry post went too long before I was done berating you.
Here's the timeline you've presented:
>meet female co-worker that may or may not be BPD (not even sure that this point, we'll comprimise and say she's a little nutty)
>slight interest on her part, you fall in love
>frequently talk to her outside work, she begins to see what a sperg you are and loses interest.
>you try to forge ahead after you've already squandered your chance with her
>she gets scared away/creeped out?
>you autisticly retreat to no contact at all
>she doesn't hate you, just doesn't want to date you. Feels bad and tried to stay on good terms.
>She still attention-whores you on occasion
>your autism interprets this as mixed signals, convince yourself she's playing games, and that your awkward small-talk at work is for the sake of "keeping up appearances" as if any of your co-workers give a shit.
>she's increasingly uncomfortable around you until one day shows up for a training session where it's just the 2 of you
>understandably creeped out, her and your co-workers laugh about your crush on her.
>doesn't speak to you for months unless necessary for work.
>you still think she likes you
>you make thread on 4 chinz to validate your obsession with her
>>17246129
I had to google it. I thought it was some anti-date rape merch or something reminding people to keep an eye on their drinks.
>>17248548
>>17248756
You misread enough of what I posted that I have to assume it is being done deliberately. I guess I should thank you for your second response here since that one made it clear that this was bait, shitposting, what have you.
Just get the fuck out if you have nothing to contribute.
>>17248852
Ok keep ignoring reality and live in your own world where a girl that barely speaks to you secretly loves you and is just putting up a front. You said it yourself, she hasn't spoke to you outside of work for two months but you're asking whether or not you should break off contact with her? She answered your question long before you made this thread.
Wow, this thread is still going.
>>17246498
I'm not going to diagnose here. If she's telling you she has, assume she does and respond accordingly.
>>17247757
No, but it does mean that the average person isn't going to have the skills or fortitude to weather the storm. I wouldn't call people with BPD worthless, I actually really like my BPD patients, but I sure as hell wouldn't want them knowing where I lived. Until stability happens they're incredibly difficult to have relationships with, thats the core of the disorder.
>>17247781
I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm actually suggesting the opposite of game playing. If you're going to be friends with a Borderline you need to set clear, explicit, predictable boundaries. Thats how you keep yourself safe and thats what Borderlines need. Anything else gets you sucked into the kind of projective identification that leads to horror.
I'm also not saying she doesn't deserve romance, I'm saying that someone with Borderline who is still exhibiting routine mood swings in public isn't in a place for romance. I hope she gets better, I hope she'll be able to have a full life, but OP would be foolish to pursue a romantic relationship with someone who is still "on a roller-coaster."
>>17247855
They're talking about Borderline Personality Disorder, not Bipolar Disorder.
>>17247878
Dyslexia is a reading disorder, not a disorder which leads to a person actively undermining, manipulating, and attacking their teachers. A better analogy would be HIV. Someone with HIV can still have a relationship, they can still have sex, they just need to use a condom. Unfortunately for Borderlines, their condom takes years to earn.
>>17248102
Everybody but Linehan considers manipulative behavior designed to elicit nuturing responses to be one of the core characteristics of Borderline Personality Disorder. I'd go a step further and say there isn't a diagnosis in Cluster B that doesn't have manipulative behavior as a hallmark.
>>17248875
>She answered your question long before you made this thread.
I'd have said the same thing, in fact, I was sure the issue was settled if not for the following:
>At the same time I occasionally get messages from her saying... "do you still like me?" or "we should meet up after work" when our shifts overlap.
This has still been going on as late as last week, and I've said this in my very first reply in this thread.
You're deliberately misrepresenting or ignoring shit. A bunch of the green-text BS you posted earlier is wildly inaccurate as well.
Take a couple of steps back and try again if you'd like to continue this discussion seriously. If you'd rather keep shitposting then there are better boards for it.
>>17248889
You're getting sucked in. Take a step back, calm yourself, think of why you're so worked up and what the person responding to you said that got you going. This is exactly how they get their hooks in.
>>17248895
Thanks, I guess I'm easier to bait than I should be. I recently took a long break from this place so I guess I got my guard down.
>think of why you're so worked up and what the person responding to you said that got you going
No easy answer to that.
>>17248887
Great post, someone knows what they're talking about.
>A better analogy would be HIV. Someone with HIV can still have a relationship, they can still have sex, they just need to use a condom. Unfortunately for Borderlines, their condom takes years to earn.
That's deep. It also worries me a bit. She didn't tell me how long she's been in treatment but I have to assume it's been a while, as she's 30 going on 31. Meaning I don't think it's a new issue so all things considered she should probably be better adjusted by now.
>>17247745
>After she game up smoking weed (because she wanted to focus more on school), she tried to get me to quit too by telling me that she thought I had a substance abuse problem, even though I smoked far less than she had
That seems like a reasonable request honestly.
>>17248902
If you're easy to bait, have trouble working out why, and get this aggressive when angry...perhaps dating someone who describes themselves as having Borderline Personality Disorder isn't for you no matter how long they've been in treatment. Even if she's stable, even if she's good, even if she's insightful and in control, someone as reactive as you appear to be isn't likely to help her maintain that.
>>17248906
>If you're easy to bait, have trouble working out why, and get this aggressive when angry...
Now you're reaching. Telling a shitposter on 4chan to fuck off is hardly aggressive behavior. I mean, I want to take your feedback seriously (I'm optimistically assuming that you're the same poster as >>17248887) but I think you're reading too much into it.
>>17248889
You can stick you fingers in your ears and say I'm shitposting all you want but all your posts in this thread have laid bare the fact that you're still interested in her and are reading way, way too deep into every little exchange with her. Most of what you've said doesn't even particularly paint her in a bad light as far as personality disorders go; she seems to be a bit unhinged but mostly just everyday attention whoring that most adults can see through unless they're infatuated and are blind to it. I wasn't gonna go there but is this the first time a female co-worker has shown interest in you, or at least the first in a long time? Because that would explain why you seem so stubborn about accepting the fact that she doesn't actually want to date you.
I'll remind you again that you said you don't want a relationship with her but in the same breath you acknowledge posts that give you advice about being in relationships with BPDs and any posts that simply tell you to walk away you dismiss as shitposting. It's obvious the purpose of this thread is for your own validation, but assuming I'm wrong about everything and taking everything you've said at face value my advice remains the same; just let her go.
>>17248928
You got baited on /adv/, thats not a good sign. Reactions happen in proportion. Here you got sucked into an exchange where you told someone to go fuck themselves and whined about shitposting because someone suggested you were a dick. What do you think would happen if, say, someone convinced you that their fetish was being called mommy so they could send video of you begging for mommy to suck your dick to your actual mother because they knew that when she rejected you they would be all you had to turn to?
Thats not me thinking of something really bad, either, thats something a patient of mine has done to a partner.
>>17246120
/thread
>>17248937
Just fucking stop already.
>>17248938
Come on mate, I thought you were serious. I'm severely disappointed now.
>>17246115
>some bitch smears his reputation by telling around she had a problem with with him over feeling harassed
>still talks with with her like nothing happened
>even wants to be "friends" despite knowing very well he won't get any
you're a pathetic cuck
>>17246779
Bumping before I go to bed in case this guy comes back.
Still looking for input. Big thanks to anyone who was trying to give helpful advice earlier.
This might be a good thread to ask a question for people who know more about this than I do.
Something about the entire idea of personality disorders rubs me the wrong way. They're essentially labels for patterns of behavior--wouldn't naming them and "diagnosing" a person with a label just serve to enforce such behavior?
Also they're so easy to toss around--when angry at someone it is so easy to see them as "ill" with a PD, or when feel low to diagnose yourself, or even be on the receiving end of resentful people throwing these terms your way when you have conflict.
I don't like navigating the world with these labels in my head so I generally don't think about them when meeting and interacting with people. But at the same time it seems like these can be patterns that only reveal themselves fully in the most intimate relationships and thus it is in one's interest to "be on the look-out" so to speak for potentially destructive characters.
I guess it just bothers me to think that we can label entire personalities as "disordered." We all engage in such behaviors from time to time, I guess the idea is that those with personality disorders do it to a pathological and extreme extent.
However, I really take issue with the language of describing people as "toxic" since I try to see people as generally "good."
These disorder labels don't *explain* these patterns, they just give them a name. Is that really helpful? Also, the number of change all the time-- Passive Aggressive used to be one.
Maybe this is less of a question and more of me expressing my confusion. This issue kind of freaks me out a little in part because I'm afraid of ending up in love with someone who could ruin my life and not realizing it until it's to late.
TLDR: feel uncomfy passing negative judgment on people, "disordered personality" label really bothers me for some reason. Thoughts from people more in-the-know about these things?
>>17249851
What more do you want to hear? What specific advice are you fishing for?
Sweet Jesus keep this thread bumped
more BPD stories now, also that guy whos phone died pls come back and post we need you
Bump
Bump bump
>>17250103
Anything, really. Just no more bait, shitposts, etc.
>>17249923
>However, I really take issue with the language of describing people as "toxic" since I try to see people as generally "good."
I see what you mean, which is why I prefer to think of these people as sick.
>>17248903
If she had said "I'd like your moral support while I give up weed, would you please not smoke it either," I would agree 100%, and would certainly have done it.
But she didn't say that, she said "You smoke too much, and I think you're addicted, and you need to stop." Which, as I pointed out earlier, is fucking gaslighting (which is a form of emotional abuse).
seriously need more bpd stories.
I've been dead depressed today and missing my bpd ex who broke up with me for no reason 8 months ago.
>>17246374
I second this, stay the fuck away. I was with a girl with bpd, I want to kill myself everyday.
>>17249027
>>17248372
>>17246792
Sorry my dudes, I was traveling and completely forgot about this post. Let me tell you about life with my BPD ex.
I guess the biggest day to day theme was EXTREME clinginess and emotional dependency. She wanted me around ALL OF THE TIME. If I protested, or needed space, it was a serious problem We were in college and there were several occasions when I had a paper due the next morning and it'd be 3AM or later and when I told her (really pleaded with her because she ran my life at that point) I needed to go home and start my homework she would flip out at me. That was the other major theme: emotional volatility and such a horrible, vindictive mean streak. I mean she would get really vicious and lash out with the intention of leaving deep emotional wounds (and she was good at it), but it would come out of nowhere as if by the flip of a switch. We could be having a friendly conversation and then she would take deep offense to something truly innocuous and she would get vicious, like a beat dog.
Then there were the constant threats of suicide. They weren't just threats either. She would fight with me all the time in public (which I hated, because I am a very private person) and drag me all over the place by running off and yelling and then when she felt she was losing the argument she'd get suicidal and run into traffic, or try to down a fistful of xanax, etc. I probably saved her life on multiple occasions because she was otherwise that committed to killing herself to spite me over not getting her way.
I was VERY supportive. She had a really rough upbringing and a lot of trauma in her adult life, and I had a deep compulsion to rescue people back then too, so I gave her every ounce of my time and patience, and let my own grades, career, relationships with family and friends go down the toilet. I didn't even notice because it had become normal for me. On a good day, I walked on eggshells. Mostly it was constant extreme stress >cont
>>17251917
>cont
So imagine this progressing for 18 months. A lot of bad and dangerous things continued to happen to her and us. They weren't her fault, but at some point it became clear to me that her condition and her behavior were bringing instability and violence from others into our lives. I nonchalantly told a friend, one of the few I had left at the time whom I will forever appreciate, about something that'd happened, I don't even remember what because it was normal to me but it horrified her (my friend). She called me up and told me that I needed to get out, that she (my ex) was not stable enough to be in public, and that I was going to end up dead or a drug addict if I stayed with her. At that point in my life, I used to cut class and go by the beach and stare at the waves while I waited for the day to be over so I could sleep. I have never in my life wanted to hurt myself, but looking back, I think I wanted to stop living.
So we broke up; I basically gave her the "I can't do this" easy letdown, and she actually started it because she would often threaten to break up with me in fights and stuff and this time I said "okay sure" and called her bluff. She immediately backtracked and flipped out about how she needed me, she hated me, I needed to be a man and stay with her, hitting me as hard as she could the whole time. A four hour fight with numerous suicide attempts later, I got home, and it was over. I felt the biggest sense of relief I have ever felt, like when your alarm goes off in the morning and you get up dreading work only to realize you've won the lottery and you're done with that shit forever. She was there the next morning on my doorstep, all smiles and please can we work this out until I said "no" and then it was straight to "FUCK YOU."
cont.
>>17251942
Last one
She has had so many lifelines passed to her. She's slapped them all away. I did everything I could to help and nurture her. She has fooled numerous therapists into thinking she's fine. She's had managers and teachers who really liked her and tried to mentor her. She's burnt every one of those bridges.
We dated five years ago. She is STILL talking shit about me, the way she did about her last ex when I was with her (I've since met him and he is such a sweet guy). She apparently beat the shit out of her next boyfriend with a table leg, and had some kind of super violent murder-suicide attempt at her last roommates (and managed to talk her way out of getting committed SOMEHOW).
I truly hope she finds peace in life, but I am so glad I got out of there. I wish I had never met her. I am just now getting over the PTSD symptoms from some of the stuff that went down when we were together.
Unless you want to know what it's like to have someone you love wake you up in the middle of the night to pick a fight that's so angry YOU feel mentally ill, to have deep scars carved into your psyche by someone who doesn't know how to have a relationship, to have your independence and self-worth sucked away, don't do it.
There's a book or article on BPD that I think is titled "I hate you! Don't leave me!" or something to that effect, and that's such a perfect way of putting it. I will never forget her laughing and crying and telling me she hated me all at the same time.
>>17251917
>>17251942
>>17251959
I'm so glad I'm getting my wizard powers soon
>>17251917
>she'd get suicidal and run into traffic, or try to down a fistful of xanax
>unstable people can get a shitload of xanax without any problems, which poses a great threat to them or the people around
>I can't even get some to just chill out after work
>>17251990
To be fair, she had a friend who sold it to her. She also ended up addicted to it while we were dating, and it would turn her into the slurring angry retard version of her worst self. Not fun.
>>17251959
>>17251942
>>17251917
Thanks for sharing, mate. That sounds like a nightmare, glad you put that behind you.
I don't know enough about my coworker to judge if she's capable of going off the deep end like that, but I don't want to find out either.
>>17249923
Well, I think we all can have traits associated with personality disorders to a certain degree, and all these things exist on a spectrum. HOWEVER, some people exhibit them so strongly that it affects their ability to form normal relationships and the people around them.
Sometimes these particular traits manifest themselves in ways that can be dangerous to others. Much like you wouldn't want to drink with a "mean drunk," you shouldn't be in a relationship with someone who has severe emotional issues that can cause you harm because it'll make you vulnerable to the ways they can hurt and manipulate.
I don't think any of these people are inherently bad, but they can do bad things. Hurt people can hurt people. Having a disorder means... things are not in order. Their emotional life isn't in balance, and it affects their behavior.
The good news is a lot of these conditions respond well to treatment, but part of getting treatment is identifying patterns of behavior that are toxic to healthy relationships and functioning in society.
We can armchair diagnose ourselves and others, but there are some people out there (like /r9k/s favorite Eliot Rodger) who are definitely unwell whether they're having a good day or a bad one. That's what those labels are for.
>>17252059
>(like /r9k/s favorite Eliot Rodger)
I'm not too familiar with that board. Care to elaborate?
>>17249923
>TLDR: feel uncomfy passing negative judgment on people, "disordered personality" label really bothers me for some reason. Thoughts from people more in-the-know about these things?
Personality disorders are more than just "this person is engaging in some negative behavior at this moment." They're pervasive, life altering, generally life long patterns of behavior, interaction, and thought.
I specialize in treating personality disorders and, even as a trained professional, I have to limit the number of Axis II patients I see in a day and how closely I'll schedule them to one another. We're talking about some of the sickest, most damaged people on Earth, people that a lot of therapists just refer out for being too difficult. I try to see people as generally good, its vital to doing the job, but an uncontrolled Borderline is toxic in relationships. My job is to manage that toxicity and help them figure out how to control and contain it while they slowly reorganize how they approach relationships and work to build a sense of self. During that time their relationships with other human beings are likely to be routinely marked by the kinds of conflict that your average person just doesn't experience more than once or twice in a lifetime, if ever.
Most of my Borderline patients have the kind of trauma history that keeps you up at night. All of them grew up with parents who either had personality disorders themselves, didn't quite live in the same reality that you and I do, or both.
Hope that helps.
>>17252438
>people that a lot of therapists just refer out for being too difficult.
That actually reminds me: my coworker (yes, this is the OP again) told me that she was trying to get her therapist to see her more than once a week.
We'd talk about her therapy, and more generally, about her mental health for a couple of weeks, until one time she told me "I can't do this any more, this isn't helping and it's what I got my therapist for". And here I was just trying to help.
>>17252522
I'll see some of my more active Borderlines twice a week, so its not that unusual. If here therapist says yes, well, that would be a sign.
>And here I was just trying to help.
You can't. Good intentions aren't enough, this isn't someone mourning a lost dog or trying to outthink a phobia. This is a person who has a disorder which, if accurate, means that a fundamental part of how she interacts with others is broken. She'll be that way forever unless she both wants to change and is willing to put in an enormous amount of work to fundamentally alter how she sees the world and herself. Thats a tall order.
Its actually very possible that trying to help someone like this without knowing what you're doing will hurt them, especially if you're the kind of person who can't maintain strong boundaries.
>>17252541
>Its actually very possible that trying to help someone like this without knowing what you're doing will hurt them, especially if you're the kind of person who can't maintain strong boundaries.
Well yeah, but we were at least going to start out with me as someone she could open up to a bit at work, since seemingly nobody else had made an effort to reach out to her. I don't see how that's harmful, though maybe she was getting paranoid about me not being discreet (I was, but I cannot exactly prove this sort of thing to her).
>>17247757
No, BPD should not be in a relationship until they have adult boundaries.
Relationships make their symptoms worse.
That's like saying people are judgmental when a bartender refuses to let you have your car keys.
There's no point in putting a BPD sufferer through a relationship where they will repeat the same abusive and self harming symptoms, and with greater incidence and risk to their life and others' lives, while they are still unable to deal with just being friends with someone.
It's not judgmental in a bad way to refuse to enable someone to have an abusive relationship, and most borderlines aren't capable of a non-abusive relationship. Even if they are capable of not being outright abusive, they often use their partner to build a sense of self which is not helpful to their treatment, or to them ever becoming more than a codependent submissive partner. They're probably worthy of becoming more than that as humans, but you'd prefer they stay in an environment where their symptoms generally get worse, and where they are constantly afraid of abandonment by the person they (cheated on/just slept with/saw smiled at them in the elevator/got spat on by) as a measure of worth. They might want relationships, but they often also want to kill themselves, stalk people, slash and burn property, steal things, and kill other people, so it's not like giving them what they want is always a good judgment. Especially since the entire point of the classification is that they keep wanting new ways to experience extreme emotion and hurting everybody along the way because they've no skills to be calm or consistent without firm boundaries.
OP, run. Only see each other at work. You don't trust her by herself. Don't lie to the person you don't trust that you trust them to spare their feelings and walk off with them by yourself to prove how unhurt they should be. That is how you get stabbed in an alley, and you would know that shit if a guy was doing the same thing.
>>17252698
>OP, run. Only see each other at work. You don't trust her by herself.
I think you're right. I'm already walking on eggshells when I'm alone with her even for a coffee break at work, so anything else should be out of the question right now.
>>17252767
Go with that. She's trying to get you to agree there really are no rules, that break ups are a matter of perspective which changes every week, and that the work place is a place for therapy, because then that would be another boundary justified out of existence.
If you want to help her, show her that in the normal world, coworkers who break up don't really hang out that much in offices or outside them.
If you want to cripple her for life into thinking she ought to have no boundaries and traumatic relationships, continuing on the way you have been is probably the best way to do that. Work out where your boundaries are, tell her you just want to be coworkers/distant, and *mean it and stick to it*. If you just flip flop around on boundaries, you're telling her everything is negotiable which is probably what she's learned from having a chaotic life instead of any experience of normal. Normal stays the hell away from that, so be careful if you try to save someone else later too, because it might be you like reinforced chaos.
>>17252802
>If you want to help her, show her that in the normal world, coworkers who break up don't really hang out that much in offices or outside them.
Just to set things clear though: we didn't break up because there was no relationship or even romance, hook-up, whatever to begin with. We didn't even get that far, and the reason I'm having this dilemma is mainly because of her starting shit at work, but I still kinda like her (and vice-versa, or at least that's what she tells me).
>>17252816
>this much emotion and you haven't even fucked yet
Nope, get the fuck out. Be distant. Be obviously distant, and don't be alone with her. You don't like her for her. She's the person fucking with your shit at work, it's going to be even bigger when she fucks you when you least expect it and feels a bit more raped than you, and you'll be pretty sure you both like each other much more than before despite the charges and missed work days. This is her just testing the waters, and you should get out now before you find out how deep they are.
If a male coworker started shit with you, you would avoid them and official channels everything. Pretend she's a male coworker doing these things, and see how much she's relying on the promise of negotiating sex in the work place to get away with starting shit in the work place. How long would you want to work with her as a man? If you'd live with her longer as a woman because you "like" her than you'd put up with that shit in an office from a guy, you're really fucking dumb about what you like in women. Would you friend the guy who did the same shit? Talk with him over coffee? Get interested in his home life? You'd be out of there if she weren't offering you something you wouldn't get from a male coworker.
>>17252660
>I don't see how that's harmful
You might not. These kinds of things aren't always immediately obvious. Even an apparently positive relationship might be damaging for a Borderline because of how it ends, or where it goes, or what gets triggered along the way.
>>17252846
I get what you're saying and that this may not be obvious, but there are two other reasons for me considering not freezing her out entirely:
1. Sympathy: she doesn't socialize much at work, what's more, she's generally disliked, so I'd like to keep her company a bit for her own sake.
2. Fear of her flipping out if I reject her half-assed attempts at friendship too obviously: from what I've read and what she even hinted at herself, this might be as dangerous as her getting the idea that I'm "ambushing"* her again.
* Does that word even make sense here, or is it something BPD patients use in English? I'm directly translating a term she uses in Polish and I'm not familiar with BPD slang in English.
>>17253304
>doesn't socialize much at work, what's more, she's generally disliked, so I'd like to keep her company a bit for her own sake. 2. Fear of her flipping out if I reject her half-assed attempts at friendship too obviously
Yes you should keep her in your life, that will reduce the drama. You are smart. >>17251076
>"I'll take any advice I can get, except for all the people giving me every reason in the world to stay away from her, that advice is shitposting because it doesn't validate my white knight complex"
You're both doing each other more harm than good, she doesn't need a clingy hero that will let her walk all over him any more than you need a broken bird to smother.
I dated a girl whom i strongly, strongly believe had BPD or many BPD like symptoms. First 2 or 3 months were amazing, it was a new world and we loved each other so much. she was my first gf so i didn;t know what was going on, i just embraced it and rode the ride. early int he relationship i saw red flags, i ignored them obviously. she got upset at me for asking if she wore a size small swimsuit because i wanted to buy her a present, she thought i was saying she had small boobs (they weren't, they were perfect and i miss them every day), she isolated me from my friends, from my family, she wanted me all to herself and then she would still get mad if another girl liked a picture of mine or sent me a snapchat. we split for 5 months and then i reached out to her and after a lot of back and forth and headaches we wound up back together for another year. after a lot of amazing highs and horrible unspeakable lows, we broke up again, about 3 weeks ago. i love her dearly and i miss her every day, i know it wasn't her fault and that the BPD was the problem. i feel so bad for her but she put me through hell. i would advise you to stay away from this girl or risk ending up a lonely fool like me.
>>17251917
>>17251942
>>17251959
This is so accurate. my ex was also very into raving and taking molly, she would slow down if i asked her not to but she would pretty much always find a way to drink if there was booze around. she got really fucked up on xanax for a week straight one time and i pleaded with her to stop and to just hangout with me but i didnt see or hardly talk to her the whole week. they don't care about your feelings, they don't care about how you feel or how their actions make you feel, then they'll turn around and accuse you of the same.
>>17253618
Good thread
>>17253577
>"I'll take any advice I can get, except for all the people giving me every reason in the world to stay away from her, that advice is shitposting because it doesn't validate my white knight complex"
Didn't we ask you to stop with the bait?
>>17254433
>we
>>17251076
>>17253304
>wykopek w pierwszym tygodniu na 4chanie myśli, że jeśli ktoś nie pochwala zadawania się z pierdolniętą na łeb laską, która już nawet publicznie rzucała oskarżenia pod jego adresem, to jest to bait albo shitpost
>>17254718
Don't embarrass yourself.
>>17254875
What does it say?
There is a difference between having a mental illness and just being a fucking terrible person.
>>17254911
is there
>>17255033
I'm convinced that my coworker is just mentally ill and not an actually terrible person, but then again I've been accused of "white-knighting" so what do I know.
>>17255505
What I'm accusing you off is that you don't want advice, you want encouragement. The purpose of this thread is either
a) you want us to help you convince yourself that getting involved with this woman is a good idea. 90% of the people that weighed in told you to stay away and you completely ignore them all while continuing to bump the thread asking for more opinions
b) you do realize that you shouldn't get involved but you still like her so you're looking for catharsis via other anon's horror stories of dating women like her to make yourself feel better.
>>17256560
I wasn't going to but I'll bite, I guess:
I've dismissed posts that gave throwaway clichés about not sticking your dick in crazy instead of the posters putting in an effort to explain their stance as shitposts, same as when someone green-texted bullshit that twist half of the words I said in this thread. If you pay attention you'll notice me responding positively to posts telling me to let go, as long as they fleshed it out a little.
>>17256580
>you'll notice me responding positively to posts telling me to let go
You've had a dozen or more people going into great detail about what a nightmare you could expect with her, literally begging you to run for your life.
And then go on to say stuff like, "I feel bad for her, she doesn't have any friends", "I'm worried she'll over react if I stop talking to her", "please give me more advice guys" I would call that ignoring.
I've spent way more time than I should have trying to beat some sense into you. At this point I hope you do allow her to get her hooks deeper and deeper into your personal and professional life. I look foward to your next thread in the coming months where you bitch about what a train wreck your life has become. Go anon, be the emotional punching bag you were born to be.
>>17246115
ex was bpd and i was eight months into an abusive relationship before i had the balls to take the step and cut it
off. you're already fucked. don't ride the tiger. get out before you get cut.
>>17256711
Well I guess I cannot stop you from deliberately misrepresenting half of what I say and shitposting accordingly, so have fun with that.
>>17257280
Yeah I'm mostly back to exclusively work-related contact with her. So far she didn't get too private this week, despite largely overlapping shifts, so we may be on the right track here (both of us, that is).
