How can I open up properly in relationships?
I don't know if I've read too much red pill shit, but I always fear fully opening with a woman, like, I'll always hold a bit back. I just assume that if I open up, it'll make her less attracted to me, they'll see me as clingy.
Of course, I've opened up with women in the past, but I always end up becoming reserved and distant for a bit afterwards to not appear dependent, or clingy, or whatever. Sometimes I'll go straight no contact for a day or two because I think I've fucked it.
How do you strike a balance in relationships between being open with another person, but not emotionally dependent upon them?
>>17129481
fully opening up with a woman* Please excuse the typos, etc.
Well, what do you have to lose by being open? Possibly a vain bitch. That's a win-win in my books.
every time i end up "opening up" with a woman, we end up splitting up not long after
and that wasn't even "fully opening up", most women are idiots who can't cope with knowing that their "perfect" boyfriend isn't actually perfect
>>17129527
The relationship, maybe. My first girlfriend broke up w/ me for being too open. I always feel like I need to tread ground carefully, like I can't fully "be" with someone, sometimes.
For example, I like to write, a lot. I have a lot of poems written about stuff, some are about my girlfriend. Anyway, we were baking one day at her flat and she asked her to write her a poem while the cookies baked, and I scribbled one of my poems about her down on a recipe card - she loved it, all good. I felt properly connected w/ her, we had a great night, she couldn't take a smile off her face.
As soon as I left her flat I was filled with a sense of dread that I've fucked it up. I cringed hard and then I didn't reply to her texts for a while incase I came off as too needy. This, in turn, made her get closer to me, and thus my fear of being too open again intensified.
This is only small, but I know it'll blow up in a big way later on in the relationship; she'll notice the pattern.
>>17129534
My fear.
>>17129534
Maybe you only dated girls so far?
i know exactly that my bf is still holding back a bit. And it's actually quiet amusing. He probably thinks i'd be floored or shocked if i knew all his dark corners. If only he knew how deep down into the dark i have already seen. That's the beauty of /r9k/ and /b/. Normal people appear like saints in comparison. He was actually afraid that i'd be less than thrilled with the FEW fetishes he has managed to tell me about. I know exactly that he has only touched the tip of the iceberg with them and it's entertaining to slowly dig deeper. Don't think we are so naive. We are just as "deep and dark" as you. Don't be afraid to let girls in. If they can't handle you, that's their loss completely
>/fa/ggot realizing his useless obsession with clothes is vapid
>>17129553
well i'm not going to suddenly start dating guys, so yeah, i've only dated girls
>>17129556
>tfw i got my dick sucked at a party once because i was wearing a pair of rafs
fashion is a side-hobby of mine, i don't give a shit what other people wear though, really. it's a vapid hobby, but everyone has one.
>>17129557
I meant as opposed to women.
But i guess my post was not on point anyways since i thought you meant opening up in a more "be myself way", not a "show my love for you"-way
>>17129568
Yep, it's more of a "i'm scared to show my emotions or you'll run away" sort of feeling.
>>17129550
Alright. So you are horrified of being vulnerable? Well, big news, EVERYONE is.
Have you ever seen it from a different angle?
Being able to be vulnerable is THE most brave and daring thing to do. It needs courage like nothing else.
So, if you display emotions you give someone a glimpse into you. You "open up" and simultaneousely make yourself prone to being wounded fataly. But the boldnes in this is that you are AWARE of this, but decide to do it NONETHELESS, simply because you know it's worth the risk. That makes it so many tu es more meaningful.
also, because you know that you will be able to pick yourself up and heal again IF you actually get wounded in that maneuvre. Can you not see how only the bravest ones are vulnerable?
>>17129585
That's true. I'm aware of this, it's just difficult putting it into practice.
Yes, yes, I can see that. I can open up with women, it's just my natural reaction AFTERWARD is to curl up in a ball and avoid them for a bit, in case they run away. Should I just, like, go with the flow a bit more? Not think about it too much?
I just keep reading everywhere that clingyness is the worst trait in a male and I'm acutely aware of my potential to be clingy, so I nip it in the bud. However, this leads to me acting cold sometimes. Maybe I'm having a crisis of masculinity or something.
>>17129534
You are not suppose to open up your only job is to be a man she need to feel secure that you are not going to breakup in tough situations and that you are strong person.
>>17129610
Again, this is what I'm afraid of. I love having conversations with my girlfriend, talking about all things about her, but what anon talks about catches my tongue and limits what I say or leads to cold behaviour.
I don't even agree w/ Red Pill, but I think it has royally fucked my shit up.
>>17129601
And you think being cold after being warm will make them run away less? That's playing games and fucking with someones emotions. Rude.
I DO strongly suggest to go with the flow after "opening up". ESPECIALLY after opening up!
Listen, EVERY human wants the same thing. They ALL just want unconditional love. No exception. No one will run away from you if you give them exactly that.
Sure, you might scare away peoplw who don't reciprocate those feels, but again, that's something GOOD! you want unconditional and hobest love, right? So every day with someone who doesn't love you back in the same way is a wasted day that could have been used to find someone who DOES reciprocate. Don't hold yourself back. You know what love should look for you and you shouldn't stop till you found it.
>>17129613
Typically, it makes them warm up to me. It makes me feel like shit, though, yes. I know, I know. It's more me getting insecure as all hell and being scared of being the creepy, clingy over-zealous boyfriend.
I do offer unconditional love, I'm just selected as to when I show it with words. Maybe I don't want to blow my metaphorical load too early.
You've given me a bit to think about. Are you a female, anon?
>>17129626
selective* fuck i need sleep
>>17129610
Well, i'm a girl and i have to, i'm really sorry, wholeheartedly disagree with you, anon.
We do like men who can protect us and care for us. As much as you do like a girl to have your back and not quit as soon as things get rough. But you got that all mixed up. Being bold, brave, manly and protective are traits that actually get lifted to new hights if accompanied by emotional vulnerability towards your GIRL! Ofc, you can't go to a bully and tell him that he huet your feels and that he should pls stop. That will only earn you ridicule. But showing someone you love that you care is NOT COMPARABLE. if you love them, they better be people with good intentions for you.
Let me make an example:
If i had a bf who vowed to protect me from all harm that'll be neat.
But if i had a bf who vowed to protect me from all harm AND love me unconditionally, that'll be a whole other level.
It's not unmanly in ANY way to show emotions to the right people at the right moment. And that also includes socialy "unmaly" actions like crying. If said bf would go trough hardship and is breaking down in tears because of that, holy crap would that not change a single ounce of my love for him. Infact, it would rather deepen it because i would feel honoured that he trusts me enough to show me his true emotions.
>>17129611
Well we are telling you the truth that is why this phenomena happens a lot with women leaving their husbands for not being manly enough. If you want to open up about how you feeling then do it with a close male friend. Also dont listen to the women here they dont know what the fuck they want
>>17129626
You are scared that it wil drive them away? Why? Because they don't want your love? Why? Because your love isn't "good enough"? Anon... I beg you. Can you not see that this is so untrue? Why would your love be worth even slightly less than someone elses? Your love is exactly as exclusive and worthy as anyone elses!
And you don't even have to show it with words if you are uncomfortable with that. You write a lot and maybe words are too big of a deal for you. Google the 5 languages of love and see which one you "speak most fluent". Then try to incorporate he others too and deepen the one that's your main.
It doesn't always have to be a poem or an "i love you".
And yes, i am
>>17129641
I know exactly what i want. I have a bf who has learned to be very open with me and i wouldn't want it any othet way.
>>17129481
LMAO
are you talking about /pol/'s "red pill"
Dude that aint red pill, that's the hillbilly conspiracy "da joos" pill
>>17129653
No, it's a colloquial term for gaming women, essentially. I don't go on /pol/, i'm lefty scum, unfortunately.
I don't agree with any of it, really. It dehumanises a lot of women, but I've researched it out of curiosity and it has effected my behaviour a bit.
My issues with opening up have been there since my first break-up tho, really.
>>17129643
I just feel like interest will drop in me. I can't be sure if she loves me or an illusion of me yet, y'know? I don't want to drive her away with over-zealousness resulting in a cold attitude reminiscent of a fuckboy. I can be open on things, it's just the deep stuff, y'know?
>>17129646
>implying you are not going to leave him down the road for that exact same reason.
Too much evidence that shows that women want manly men and even leave their almost perfect husband to find more masculine men.
>>17129660
Well, it has surely affected you that you have read up on the "red pill".
You will most likely always love a slight ilusion of someone else. The question is, to what extend? The goal is to eliminate illusion as good as possible, so being honest and open are the best way to deepen love and make it more "true".
I can't assure you that you won't send girls away with that technique. But i can assure you, 100%, that the girl that's right for you WILL stay. And what do you want with a girl that's with you because you keep up the illusion? Do you want to put up an act for the rest of your life? Do you have any idea how draining that would be? How sad and unsatisfying? I'd rather be alonr than be with someone who loves someone that is not me. That would make me feel utterly lonely. The exact opposite of what a relationship should be for.
By going cold, yes you will be seen as a fucboy. It implies that you didn't mean what you said because your actions speak a whole other language than your words and every girl with some selfrespect knows that there are enoigh idiots who try to charm you with nive words, only to threat you like shit a moment later. They learn to watch out for how your words and actions match up. If that is out of line, they will asume that you are playing them and run.
By deep stuff, do you mainly mean things like saying "i love you, i care about you, i want you to be the mom of my kids and grow old with me" or also other stuff?
>>17129672
He's the embodiment of masculinity. You lose this time, anon
>>17129692
Hmm, true. I'm not "acting" so much, I'm genuine, just very selective.
Yes, but I'm going cold because I care too much, not because I don't care at all.
Yeah, also stuff about my life I'd like to share, the stuff she talks about, but the stuff I bite my tongue at.
>>17129697
What truly is masculinity?
Opening up is simply opening the doors to you heart.
It's about being vulnerable and trusting a person to not crush you in your vulnerable state.
Only when this door is open can you truly open up to someone.
Now, just because you opened up to someone, it doesn't mean you're made for each other or you love her as wife.
Friends can have deep relationships without ever being sexual.
>>17129709
Well, not telling everything is a way of lying too.
YOU know that. The girls don't. Being cold is usually interpreted as a sign of lacking interest.
So, also your secrets and believes she has that you don't agree with? That's the good stuff anon. You only truly found a keeper if you can have constructive debates if you find something you disagree on. Emphasis on "constructive"!
And slowly letting someone in on all the small stuff that you don't just tell everyone is a requirement if you want to not just be lovers but also friends.
>>17129731
Is it? She knows I love her and what not.
But if you show too much interest they tend to leave? This has never happened to me outside of my first relationship, but I see it happen to friends and what not a lot.
No, we can argue constructively. Just personal stuff.
Next time something romantic, or deeply-personal happens I'll try to hang around a bit more, swallow pride. I just hope she won't go cold.
>>17129711
That's a good question and i won't be able to answer it since it is not a graspable concepet with well defined boundaries. Just like trying to explain love.
For me, there is not so much masculinity and femininity but rather just being a decent human. That's gender neutral for me. Stuff like selflessness, empathy, gratitude, courage, loyalty, generousity and so on are a few of many traits males AND females should both cultivate.
Now that i think about it, i can't really name a character trait i see as inherently masculine or feminine. But i can see where you are coming from. It's easier for girl to identify with "male" qualities without lile bravenes, strength, persistence, assertivenes and so on than it is for guys to incorporate female tendencies like fragility, tendernes or delicacy. I do think it is absolutely possible and also greatly admired by girls. I know NO girl that wouldn't melt by the sight of a guy holding a tiny baby with great gentlenes or playing with a puppy with enthusiasm. Those are moments where those characteristics are appropriate and needed. But again, that's not limited to gender. I'm sure it's also rather nice for a guy to watch a girl he likes to be loving and caring towards a little child. I do believe that it's more a question of knowing the right time and place for each quality.
>>17129756
If she knows that, then why are you worried? Do you think you don't say it often enough? Is there something else you want to tell her?
I was more speaking in general. Holding back is dishonest too. I know that one very well. I'm pretty selfconscious about what others think about me. Especially people i care abouz deeply, like my bf. I really need to pinch myself in the ass sometimes when i 'm tempted to "not tell it all" to shine a brighter light on myself. But then i remember that this would only backbite in the future and make us drift appart instead of bringing us closer. Secrets make you tiptoe around topics and that's always obvious and will raise suspicion and distroy closenes. Coming clear, especially about stuff only very few peole know about you will tie you together so much more. It shows that you trust them and that you truly believe them that their love is unconditional.
That was one incident. That's like giving up trying to ride the bicycle cause you fell once and because you have seen other get injured. What do you know, maybe they had shit balance to start with?
I'm pretty sure she won't. I don't see a reason why she should...
>>17129756
>But if you show too much interest they tend to leave
When they aren't that interested they leave. Or when they want something casual. I haven't heard of a case where a girl saw a guy as a good long term partner she wanted to be with, but because he was "too interested" she decided to give up entirely.
>>17129800
What if said man became clingy? Certainly that would alter her view of him in a significant fashion?
>>17129811
If you love someone there is no "too clingy". Provided it is a healthy clingy and not an "obsesses stalker" clingy
>>17129820
I'm unconvinced, but maybe I should try going all-in again, slowly. Being super push and pull isn't good for her, or me, or the relationship.
Thanks for the advice, everyone. If anyone has anymore or if they have differing views don't be afraid to chip in.
>>17129633
>Ofc, you can't go to a bully and tell him that he huet your feels and that he should pls stop.
>But showing someone you love that you care is NOT COMPARABLE
As boys back on the playground, do you think we dared each other to tell Cripwalk McWorldstar how we really felt? Nope. That shit ain't scary, worst we could get is a beating, maybe a cut or two with his shitty plastic-handle butterfly knife.
We dared each other to reveal our feelings to the girls we liked. Now that, that was fucking terrifying.
You're right, it's not comparable. If some random asshole thinks i'm pathetic, whiny, weak, unmanly, etc, then that's fine. I don't give a flying fuck about his opinion anyway.
But from someone I care about? It hurts.
>>17129762
>Those are moments where those characteristics are appropriate and needed.
>>17129820
>If you love someone there is no "too clingy". Provided it is a healthy clingy and not an "obsesses stalker" clingy
And there's the rub.
Who decides when they're appropriate and needed, and when they're pathetic and weak?
Who decides whether it's "healthy clingy" or "obsessive stalker clingy"?
Sure as hell not us.
OP are you me?
Look up anxious/avoidant attachment style
>>17130498
>anxious/avoidant attachment style
That kind of read like me, but kind of not. I just tend to avoid once I've done a deed of attachment for a bit, as opposed to avoiding it altogether.
Interesting, tho. Thanks, anon.
>>17130305
These are my fears.
>>17130572
>>17130572
Op I relate a lot to you. I'm always trying to find a balance between being open and not seeming like a beta bitch. In my first relationship I shared too much, in my second I shared nothing. It's really hard to balance. I pull the same moves as you ignoring my gfs if I feel I did something to sappy.
I'm not sure how to solve this issue.
Have you ever had a woman break up with u or hurt you? Any rejection issues.
My advice to you, op, is to always be one step less warm then them. So match their warmness and vulernability but always do it less.
Don't listen to the idealist sfuff. In the real world some women will be turned off if you show too much emotion
>>17131397
Yeah, first relationship fucked me up.
