TL;DR;
I see women as objects.
However, I still try to satisfy their needs.
But when I ask them what they do really want, they feel shattered and leave me and call me egoistic.
Yet I asked what they do want! Is this such a hard question?
### FULL STORY ###
Dear Femanons,
Let me explain my issue.
I am unable to see you women as something different than a cum bucket.
I have been taught this is wrong, you are people like everybody else, and you deserve respect... so I deliver accordingly.
I Would never harm anyone and feel shit when somebody is uncomfortable around me.
However, I cannot bring myself to see you as human beings whose personality I might want to discover. I am not interested in you, but just in what you can give me.
You are like objects, I see you as sex toys and nothing more.
I think you are aware of this and perceive my distance, so you don't want to deal with me and avoid me because I don't have what you define as a "genuine interest" in your person.
I still maintain my interest is genuine -- but just physically genuine; not emotionally genuine.
In a sense, this all makes sense. It's a straightforward action-reaction: you perceive me like that, so you avoid me. Full stop.
What I don't understand is when I am blamed for treating women like men. Why is this thing a critique? As a man, I don't have women rushing to me to care for my emotional needs; occasionally, people give me material help, but this is as far as it goes. Hence, since I'm supposed to find within myself the energy to go on, I have hard times putting up with somebody (usually a woman) who is always craving for my approval, my (fake or genuine) interest, etc. I assume everyone has to do this kind of job and become self-sufficient; I am not here to provide people (and especially strangers!) with emotional freebies -- especially when it is not reciprocal.
But isn't this what women say they want? To be treated like men. So here I am, I treat you like buddies and nothing more... but you do not forgive this way of acting.
So I am in a bit of a predicament: I follow your directions and treat you like I treat men. However, when I do so, I am blamed for not being empathic enough, etc.
Thus, my question:
>What do women want?
>What do you want, femanons?
And, in particular, why do you treat me like a robot devoid of empathy when I make you face this question.
"What do you want?" It sounds excellent. Maybe it is even over-empowering. Not easy to answer, of course, but that's precisely the point: do I make you feel uneasy by asking you what do you really want?
Why do you crumble and leave me when I ask you this question? Is it because I think you are like objects? Is the way I think of you more important than what I provide you with?
Please explain.
>>16909974
>>16909973
TL;DR
Replace what women want with what do people want. Relationships aren't some sort of game where if you put in X you get out Y.
>>16909973
>>16909974
>>16909979
I still have no idea what you're asking.
All I can come up with is that when any women approach you, you LITERALLY turn to them and ask "what do you want??", and then they get understandable upset and leave.
>>16909973
>I see women as objects.
>However, I still try to satisfy their needs.
And this is the crand contradiction of your life. There are no true universals to the question of what women want, but "to be seen as people" is as close to universal as it gets.
In short, OP, if you want any significant succesa with women, you are going to need to go through a radical shift in some very deeply-held attitudes. No one is going to be able to so this for you: it must come from you, or it won't work.
>>16909990
>All I can come up with is that when any women approach you, you LITERALLY turn to them and ask "what do you want??", and then they get understandable upset and leave.
OP here.
If that's your comment... just get lost.
I mean I ask "what do you want?" on several warranted occasions:
>She is crying on my shoulder and says she doesn't know what to do
>She comes up and says a lot of confused things, so I reduce dissonance by politely asking her to narrow down her request
>When they snap at me for random reasons, I ask them to tell me exactly what they want from me (e.g. when they are angry) and I will abide. And I really mean it: if someone's angry, I will do whatever is needed to satisfy them. This makes them even more angry.
>She cheated on her boyfriend with me. But then she dumped me when it was clear she had other priorities. Fair enough. But after 1 year she writes me to ask for emotional support, etc. So I ask her to express to me what her desires and projects are... this makes her walk away.
>Etc.
I can come up with thousands examples in which I was really ready to follow somebody's directions to the letter, but these people were too afraid or too confused to speak up their mind or give clear indications. This left me guessing and usually guessing wrong, as I am a bad mind-reader.
So, of course I don't ask "what do you want" in a rude and impolite way when people say "hello to me". But at some point in a relationship I had to ask this question in the deepest psychological sense:
>"What do you want?"
>"What do you really want?"
>"What do you really want for yourself?"
>"What do you want me to do in order to help you achieve your goals?"
>Etc.
I cannot explain in writing their face when they are faced with such a mirror question. The ensuing confusion is what usually leads them to desert me and go back to their former comfort (e.g. former bf, or former lifestyle).
So, when I am fully receptive to their needs, it's when they walk away.
>>16909993
>And this is the crand contradiction of your life. There are no true universals to the question of what women want, but "to be seen as people" is as close to universal as it gets.
This is exactly what I don't get.
I don't see them as people, but I do treat them as people!
Don't you see the issue, here?
They seem non-reactive to my attempts to treat them fairly, but they are over-reactive to the way I represent them in my mind!
It seems to me what I think of them is more important to them that what I do for them.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the apex of contradiction. Because I can go out of my way for you because I genuinely believe that's what I'm supposed to do when somebody needs help... but as soon as you realize I identify you as just another rabbit in the cage, then you walk away.
But I am resistant to this form of mind-control. I wish I could think what I want and my actions speak on my behalf. If I act like a saint, why is "what I do think of them" so important? Isn't doing more important than thinking?
>>16910067
>I can come up with thousands examples in which I was really ready to follow somebody's directions to the letter, but these people were too afraid or too confused to speak up their mind or give clear indications. This left me guessing and usually guessing wrong, as I am a bad mind-reader.
No offense, but you sound like a robot. What you're doing isn't exactly wrong, but you're probably going about it the wrong way. People, men and women, need companionship from a friend and loving partner. I think your issue is that you're a little too straightforward, which causes you to be emotionally distant.
>When they snap at me for random reasons, I ask them to tell me exactly what they want from me (e.g. when they are angry) and I will abide. And I really mean it: if someone's angry, I will do whatever is needed to satisfy them. This makes them even more angry.
Again, without much context, that sounds a bit robotic. You're wanting to do something to appease them to get what YOU want, not because you seem to genuinely care about them and why they may be angry.
>She cheated on her boyfriend with me. But then she dumped me when it was clear she had other priorities. Fair enough. But after 1 year she writes me to ask for emotional support, etc. So I ask her to express to me what her desires and projects are... this makes her walk away.
That type of person is never satisfied. They hop from person to person, feeding off attention. As soon as you don't give them what they want, they're gone. She probably wanted you to stir her heartstrings once more, but when you were unable to deliver, she moved on to someone else.
>>16909974
> You are like objects, I see you as sex toys and nothing more.
So you're an asshole. Got it.
> Why do you crumble and leave me when I ask you this question?
Because you're an asshole.
> Is the way I think of you more important than what I provide you with?
Depends on what you provide. If you think that your dick is God's gift to women, kindly fuck off.
> What I don't understand is when I am blamed for treating women like men.
Women aren't men. If you want men, go suck dick.
>>16910094
>you're a little too straightforward, which causes you to be emotionally distant
That's exactly what my friend told me when he said: "You're treating them like you treat guys". He meant to say I'm like that: straightforward.
But I thought women wanted a straightforward guy. So should I mask my ideas and feelings?
>You're wanting to do something to appease them to get what YOU want, not because you seem to genuinely care about them and why they may be angry.
I have no idea on how to change this.
How do I genuinely care for somebody?
I remember some 5-10 girls in my life I genuinely care for. I like to hear from them, I like them to tell me their stories, I like to be supportive; I helped some in their career path and, above all of that, I love the work some of these friends produce -- i.e. I am really amazed by them every time they show me something they have done and basically I appreciate them independently from what I want from them... occasionally I sexually fantasize about them, but this is a very side thing, desu.
But for these girls I am just another dude in the background. I mean... if women in general do have the right to have me cater for their emotional wellbeing, why is it so hard for them to cater for my physiological needs?
I know it's not a tit-for-tat kinda thing (e.g. I give you 100 cucumbers, you give me 80 potatoes)... but I am frankly tired of having nobody and be sexually avoided by most girls.
The reason I see them like objects is that I used to care a lot, but they look like people who take-it-all and never give something back.
And please don't say it is always wrong to expect something back, because it's a lie. And I don't think I am asking too much. I would like them to appreciate me because of my body...
>>16910094
>She probably wanted you to stir her heartstrings once more
That was my suspicion, at first I answered hastily to her unexpected e-mail (1 year!).
Then I admitted to myself I had been thinking about her for the past year.
She replied to me and asked why I was so angry with her... that is bullshit for 2 reasons:
1. She knew she used me in the past.
2. Even so, there was nothing in my quick reply that could suggest anger -- except the fact it was quick, maybe.
So I gave her a bit more feedback and suggested a meeting.
But she refused on the same old basis: "because if we meet I will end up cheating"
So I asked:
"Please try to picture in mind our relation in the future: how do you see the two of us? Talking? Spending time together? Just writing to each other? Caring for each other? Please tell me what you do really wish our relationship was like and I will try to make it so".
The answer was: "I am still confused, but thank you for your words. Goodbye.
>>16910127
>Because you're an asshole.
I think it is because even they don't know the answer. They complain, they whim, they cry... but are unable to access their desires. They should practice more mindfulness and be honest to themselves.
>Depends on what you provide. If you think that your dick is God's gift to women, kindly fuck off.
So why do they think my skills and abilities are always due, but they are never ready to move an inch in my favor, when I ask the simplest of things?
It is okay when I do your essay or correct it, but if I ask for us to go out (not even sex!) or see you more often, then I am called egoistic.
So now I know what it is to be a woman: always ask, never give. When you ask = you're an asshole and they also shame you because you're biological needs and wishes are deemed unworthy -- whereas all their leeching your energy and resources is legit.
Thanks fuck for the insight, anon.
>Women aren't men. If you want men, go suck dick.
Women perpetually ask of me to treat them like men... but when they are unsatisfied by my fair dealing, they call it off and shove the "women are not men" meme in my face.
>>16910133
Jesus, you're fucking dense. If she has a boyfriend, why are you trying to fuck her?
Sounds to me like she wants a friend, but you just want to get your dick wet.
In short, an asshole.
>>16910141
Sounds like you have worked it all out in your mind where you're the special snowflake. Good luck to you then.
>>16909973
Women want a chocolate penis that ejaculates money. This is all they need and will ever want in life.
>>16910187
>Jesus, you're fucking dense. If she has a boyfriend, why are you trying to fuck her?
Because I could?
Because I did?
As I explained in my previous post:
>>16910067
>>She cheated on her boyfriend with me. But then she dumped me when it was clear she had other priorities. Fair enough. But after 1 year she writes me to ask for emotional support, etc.
>Sounds to me like she wants a friend, but you just want to get your dick wet.
Well, when I was making her cum and she touched my dick, it looked like she was looking for something more than a friend. Now she's looking for just a friend... well, she walked away from me once!
What is dense about this?
>>16910187
>Sounds like you have worked it all out in your mind where you're the special snowflake. Good luck to you then.
Again, I wrote a thread to ask what women want.
All I get is:
>you're an asshole
>that's your contradiction
>sounds like you have worked it all out in your mind
Well, if I had I wouldn't be her asking what do women want.
So far, only good answers, which I praise, are:
>>16910094
>>16910191
I don't side with the latter, but at least it is an answer. All the other posts are comments about what you do think of me.
dunno op, I really want the emotional connection that you are incapable of having. dealt with a guy like you for a while and he would only get frustrated because his occasional efforts to fake emotions didn't satisfy me. I want something real and you just want to be a rebound fuck/no strings guy. that's fine, there are women who are looking for that, perhaps in temporary phases.
>>16910258
>you just want to be a rebound fuck/no strings guy.
But I do want strings with somebody!
It's just that when I try to be helpful it is all distant.
Btw every time I created the strongest bonds was with girls who already had a bf but he wasn't taking care of their emotional needs.
So now that you make me think of it, maybe I'm pretty good at empathy. It is just I see it as the perfect recipe for disaster.
E.g.:
>She likes me
>He doesn't take care of her
>I do take care of her
>She hugs and kisses and cries
>But then she refuses to have sex
>I feel like a cuck, and am not even her bf!
It happened 3 out of 3.
Another time I managed to get physical with her, but then she walked away nonetheless.
So the more empathy I give, the more an empathy demon who already has a relationship will abuse me and leave me broken, as most women in my life have done...
Then I will man up and resist temptation, and they'll treat me like the robot I am now.
>I want something real
How do you judge if something is real or not?
And don't say: "I can feel it when it's real"
Because I need info you can share, not things only you can tell.
>>16909973
No one wants to be treated and thought of as mere objects. If you lack of the empathy and mental complexity required to view other people as people on their own terms you'll never connect with them on anything but the most superficial level. You'll never fake it well enough to fool anyone for long, and thank god since hollow excuses for men like you ought to remain alone. If all you understand or care about is yourself then keep yourself to yourself. I dunno if you're autistic or just a sociopath but either way you're hopeless until you develop some sincere empathy.
Women have a slave mentality. They want you to lead, make decisions and assume responsibility. They don't want to make decisions themselves, instead they want to obey you - the leader. This is why they don't like it when you ask them what THEY want. Harsh but true.
>>16910281
>No one wants to be treated and thought of as mere objects.
I don't treat them like objects, as I said.
However I think of them as objects.
Question: is what I think more important that what I do?
>you'll never fake it well enough to fool anyone for long
But I am sincerely putting an effort into letting them have it their way. I try to say things that empower them.
How could this be wrong?
You demand of me to have a black-box representation (deep within my mind) that fully matches my helping actions. Otherwise I am a "fake".
What if I cannot come up with such a complex mental fresco and nonetheless I am dedicated to let them have it their way whenever possible? Aren't my actions enough of an account of respect? But you want more! You want some kind of ideal match between my inner mind and feelings and my external actions. I am allowed no dualism, no privacy.
>>16910292
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>16910292
>Women have a slave mentality. They want you to lead, make decisions and assume responsibility. They don't want to make decisions themselves, instead they want to obey you - the leader. This is why they don't like it when you ask them what THEY want. Harsh but true.
No, man. Sorry.
I'm OP. Still here replying, and what you have just said is the opposite of what all women tell me.
If there is a true femanon here, they will confirm what I say. I might be an empathy-lacking sociopath as >>16910281 said, but I'm not an idiot and I am perfectly aware of the fact women demand respect and empowerment, which is exactly what I strive to provide even if my desires and needs are purely sexual.
Proof of it is I hardly get laid. So I cannot be called an exploiter, can I? I am just a lonely fucktard. But I know -- and I'm sure you know it as well -- that women want that sort of empowerment, and that's exactly why I'm surprised to see rejection whenever I ask them to express their authentic desires.
It is true I don't second-guess them. I am not that empathic. But I admit my limits and simply ask them to state what they want. That's when they reject me.
This is like a Catch 22.
>>16910314
>what you have just said is the opposite of what all women tell me.
Well of course, women don't know this about themselves. They don't like the idea that they think and act like slaves. But they do, subconsciously, it's in their nature.
>>16910267
3 out of 3 times you were a girls side piece? that's not a good position to start with and is loaded with all these mixed signals.
something real, I don't wanna be one night, side bitch, 4th string booty call 2am Saturday. it is a feeling but there's a certain amount of play of trust levels, social inclusion, general interest, lack of red flag behavior.
I kinda skimmed through a preview of a 5 love languages book. I really like physical touching stuff. I had a guy who would come by and always give me a nice kiss hello with a good squeeze/hug/etc. I think some of the other ones were like spending time together, favors/gifts, I forget. I suppose it's something that can be faked. I think I would be put off if a guy showed up with flowers but I know lots of girls who would be thrilled that you were thinking of them and thought it was worth the money. so I am hardly speaking for women as a whole bc it doesn't work that way.
>>16910334
So should I start being more assertive? Like expressing my opinion and things?
Because, well... I think of them like objects... and the fact they are around me at uni, all flashy and half naked... well, let's say it doesn't help to think of them as something more than cum buckets.
But anyway, that's what I think. Instead, what i know is my duty is to treat them as people. So I try not to stare at them drooling, and to be straightforward when it comes to practical tasks.
So in which way can I become assertive and display leadership without giving away my deep thoughts and desires?
And anyway, would this be a morally acceptable way? This would be just a pitiful masquerade, not real empathy and things others have said in this thread.
Many in this thread have accused me of faking empathy... but I stated many a time I am trying to express it, however clumsily.
What if I act as if I had no empathy at all? As if they didn't matter at all? Just part of the furniture... something in the background and nothing more?
Is this the way to go? It sounds even worse than what it is now.
>>16910352
>3 out of 3 times you were a girls side piece? that's not a good position to start with and is loaded with all these mixed signals.
Thence my confusion.
>it is a feeling but there's a certain amount of play of trust levels, social inclusion, general interest, lack of red flag behavior.
Can you make an example of "red flag behaviour"?
I am 100% interested in getting practical advices at this point, because all these labels we have used in the conversation seem pointless to me (am I lacking empathy or just discouraged? Am I asshole or shy? Am I X or Y? etc.). I don't want an assessment of what or who I am. I want to know how to change. I need practical examples.
>so I am hardly speaking for women as a whole bc it doesn't work that way.
At this stage, every word is precious. It doesn't matter if we cannot generalize your thoughts. What you're saying might still be an essential Copernican revolution in my world-view -- if you allow me the allegory.
Please make more examples and thanks for the help.
OP is a text book case of autism. Not the 4chan kind but genuine autism, the kind where one is unable to understand nor possesses much emotional intelligence.
Thus OP is unable to interact emotionally, requiring every emotional action of another person to be rooted in logic and explainable.
Weebster's Dictionary defines autism as: OP of this thread.
>>16910356
other anon, woman tend to say something but want something else, no? it's normal, deal with it
the thing is they WANT a fucking MAN and he TAKES fucking choices+risks for his life, for him, for her, it's your power, ...
You respect woman because she can give you is her vitality/feminity/life, it's her power.
If you think them like objects,you treat them like object, period. It's people with family,personal history,problems so... please stop porn srly
>So in which way can I become assertive and display leadership without giving away my deep thoughts and desires?
are you kidding me? you want "leadership" but you consider woman "buckets" ??
if she wants too, you can have a good fuck thats true but its only one way.
You need to leader yourself first,yes.
>What if I act as if I had no empathy at all?
it's a rare quality today, but don't overfell it if you are not happy right now with your life, balance it like a good meal.Empathy is in the little things of life for me)
And what you really want to do with your life? is it worth it?because you feel a bit insecure
>I might be an empathy-lacking sociopath
>I am just a lonely fucktard
is it a fine bait?
Lol dude women want big cocks. After all, that's all that matters to them. If you ain't packing 7", you're gonna be cucked for sure.
>>16910372
dealt with a guy who had so many issues. he had a real bad attitude towards women and would openly declare ones he knew as whores. but really just excluding that he banged them all anyway. so he acted as if he knew the true percentage of whores and "good" girls from his experience fucking all "whore" types in college. lot of weird baggage from his relationships.
another guy would say faggot and tranny and I told him those aren't very nice words and he took me seriously and cut down on their ironic use, at least in my presence.
6am and im tired but really just negative shit associated with a person. attitudes, behaviors, personal drive, grooming.
you say yes you want strings but only think of women as sex toys. because of your experiences? have you wanted anything besides regular pussy?
>>16909973
Are you 15?
>>16910388
>OP is a text book case of autism. Not the 4chan kind but genuine autism, the kind where one is unable to understand nor possesses much emotional intelligence.
>Thus OP is unable to interact emotionally, requiring every emotional action of another person to be rooted in logic and explainable.
>Weebster's Dictionary defines autism as: OP of this thread.
And yet I took autism tests and it turns out I am 100% normie.
But I argue 4chan's definition of autism is misleading, because many 4channers display symptoms of autism but whose cause is not autism, but just anxiety disorder.
So you look at my symptoms and diagnose autism. Instead, I looked at their cause and am well aware of anxiety in my life.
So, well, this is just to say your comment is discarded.
>>16910392
>if she wants too, you can have a good fuck thats true but its only one way
But when I fuck them I really try to make them feel better! I try not to make the fuck about me, but about her!
>And what you really want to do with your life? is it worth it?because you feel a bit insecure
Currently I do have some projects I want to pursue. Nothing too far away in time. One of them is more serious because it is professional... so let's say I have a couple of ideas in mind.
Romantically? I have no idea. I pictured myself as the one who is looking for a relationship, but everything points in the other direction: just another selfish dude with the "I wanna be Chad" syndrome, who is just too average to make the difference in body appearance.
Seriously, I know I am insecure, but am just trying to be true to myself. That's why I said I think of women like objects: I am completely losing interest in their lives and activities, because anyway they are not going to involve me -- unless they have a boyfriend and are going to exploit me like the other ones.
So hell yeah, not only am I stirring away from empathy, but I see no point in taking it further.
Now I'm just wondering if I have to develop more empathy or just throw in the bin the few empathy left.
>is it a fine bait?
Not bait. I was just trying some sarcasm given I have been called sociopath in another comment. But I don't think I'm a sociopath. I felt it quite offensive: as I said, I do not toy with people; rather, I try to help them or to conform to expectations.
>>16910404
>Lol dude women want big cocks. After all, that's all that matters to them. If you ain't packing 7", you're gonna be cucked for sure.
I am a 7" sharp and at least three times in my life, my "interesting size" has been noticed by partners (especially in English I hear "big boy", which sounds ridiculous to my ears). I thought they were saying it just because, but maybe it is less common than I thought. I am no porn star, etc. but the few people who had sex with me looked very satisfied at the end. I've seen women completely lose control and go wild... completely overwhelmed. I also use my mouth and fingers to please and try to focus on all of their body and to say nice things, etc.
Of course, nobody on 4chan will ever believe this story, so I don't expect people to give me thumbs up, etc. Anyway, I still think I am fairly decent at sex and have a sufficient body. Usually girls are satisfied with me. I know you only have my word for this and I accept if you don't want to discuss this further for fear I am just lying.
It's all the relationship part that goes awry. The sex, I guess, it's rather okay. But maybe I fail to be somebody who goes "beyond" the good fuck.
>>16910465
>Are you 15?
I am 30.
I officially lost my virginity at 25 with a girl in the back of my friend's house during a party. But the first time a woman managed to make me cum happened when I was 27.
I am a late developer in the love department, for sure.
I am still attracted by 18-21 y.o. girls. Not younger and not those who look like kids. I see them as fresh and intelligent people, usually more outspoken about their own interests than people my age. Less demanding and maybe a bit naive.
However, this is what I would like. But reality is I always end up with some 32-33 y.o. girl. Usually it is girls a bit older than me that like me.
They want to be treated as something OP.
When it's convenient to them.
They want to coddled and pampered like children when they hurt, treated like women when they want something, treated like men when they ask for respect.
You falter on any of them and they will blame you for it. You're not romantic enough, you don't listen to me enough, you don't respect me. They will find someone who caters to them, sometimes without telling you.
They will not like if you call them on it, and if you push on the negative parts of the role they are playong at the time. Treat them like kids too much, and you come off as controlling. Treat them like women too much and you're pushy, creepy, needy and you need to give her space. Treat them like men too much and well, you already now, you're too cold.
There's no winning here, only lesser amounts of being a loser.
>>16910575
All this story makes me want to crack the case, find the secret key and open all the locks, and have them come crawling and begging...
But this is a wrong thought! I must not think this way! It is a false generalization. I know it is wrong. I just don't feel that way.
Do you see? I keep thinking wrong things and cannot change my own mental representation.
>>16910579
There is no master key.
Sure there are keys, when you find one you try to use it and find it doesn't quite work. So you just use the key to force the lock a bit. Sometimes that key snaps, but sometimes you hear a click and it opens. Damn good, you feel satisfied at that click, you go to open the door to see what you have earned with effort and patience, with support and love, honestly and loyalty.
The door creaks as it opens only to fill your view with another lock.
OP here.
You know what? Maybe it's time for me to get a puppy. I have always hated the idea of dogs, but recently I had to take out a dog that belonged to a friend of mine and suddenly all those worries about how to deal with animals disappeared. I don't want to get a dog just because of this, but, frankly speaking, it would be an interesting challenge to take care of an animal. It will require me to be intuitive and follow routines.
And maybe I will feel less lonely. I am just worried I will not be able to have one as long as I live in my apartment. I need to move out in a place where I do have a garden.
>>16910616
Just make sure its what you want. Don't get a dog as a simple substitute for something. Most of the time the owners end up getting rid of the pooch because their services are no longer required.
If you can afford one, and get enough space, and have time to go to dog parks or something of the sort, get a lab, or shep. They are smart and when well taken care of, bros.
>WHAT DO YOU WOMEN WANT?
For people to see them as persons, not objects.
OP, when you're in the same situation the girls are (upset or something), would you be able to answer 'what do you want?'? Do you want to dictate the whole time how you want someone else to act, instead of them just being themselves? Try to imagine how it would be if someone treated you the way you treat women.
>>16910076
>This is exactly what I don't get.
>I don't see them as people, but I do treat them as people!
>Don't you see the issue, here?
The issue is that they see through your act. You can't hide things like this forever: people with views like this are seldom very good at that.
>They seem non-reactive to my attempts to treat them fairly, but they are over-reactive to the way I represent them in my mind!
They are not overreacting. Your views are the basic definition creepiness.
Actually, the above isn't quite correct. When a women calls you creepy, it means that she thinks you see her as an object (whether or not you actually do). In your case, it's also true. You are what people who use the term "creepy" are afraid of.
>It seems to me what I think of them is more important to them that what I do for them.
I compare it to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. According to the theory, some needs are so important (e.g. food, water, sleep) that if they aren't met, nothing else matters. Once they ARE met, new needs that once seemed unimportant (security, feeling loved, and so on) begin to come to the fore. They can be grouped into tiers by theme; the arrangement of these needs is often a matter of some debate, but one could generally categorize them as survival -> safety -> love-> respect -> self-actualization.
In this day and age, women don't treat being seen as people as a love/belonging need. They treat it as a safety need, which is lower on the hierarchy than things like love. The end result is that I dislike calling your attitude a dealbreaker, because that word doesn't capture its repulsive power strongly enough. The concept of a deal can't even exist: the overriding concern is getting the away from you, ideally without setting you off (because that's safer), but if that can't be accomplished, then at least as quickly as possible. There's not much room for love in a heart that's gone into safety mode, and your attitude puts women into safety mode.
