To what extent do you avoid offending other people?
Where do you draw the line? At which point do you stop and say to yourself "ok, that's it, if they're insulted by such a silly thing they're either pretending or they have some serious issues I don't want to deal with or tiptoe around"?
Here are some not-so-removed-from-everyday-life examples I intuitively feel are crossing that line, but I can't logically explain why. Please help me find the pattern or devise some kind rule-of-thumb:
>your gf accuses you of cheating because she had a dream of you being with another woman, you think she's joking, but she's actually offended for real
>your old classmate doesn't talk to you because you jokingly used their old nickname which mocks their surname
>users of a website want to ban a certain emoticon because it reminds them too much in shape of a penis, you wonder what kind of perverted mind could see a penis in that
>someone's religious feelings are hurt because you said islam is in some way responsible for 9/11 attacks
>your friend is offended you didn't respond to them while you were busy taking a shit
How do you argument not wanting to apologize, giving them the benefit of doubt that perhaps they'll calm down and listen to reason?
Feel free to point me to any pages, threads or book resources that talk about this and help you with argumentation. Does this behaviour have a name? I see it more often in women than men, but god damn me, men do it too.
>>16736536
I don't. If they don't like it they need to stay the fuck away from me.
>>16736536
>>your gf accuses you of cheating because she had a dream of you being with another woman, you think she's joking, but she's actually offended for real
>your friend is offended you didn't respond to them while you were busy taking a shit
This is retarded if it's true, please find less emotionally needy people
>your old classmate doesn't talk to you because you jokingly used their old nickname which mocks their surname
Some people do get pissy over that,just ask if you can use "x" name
>users of a website want to ban a certain emoticon because it reminds them too much in shape of a penis
Who cares?
>someone's religious feelings are hurt because you said islam is in some way responsible for 9/11 attacks
That wasn't very smart of you desu. That's like talking about how PETA are a bunch of retards with a vegan friends.
Let me rephrase that and give you a tl;dr version: how do you tell if you actually done something offensive, or if they're just too sensitive and rather than expecting you apologize they need to recognize their flaw and deal with it. You know, grow a pair.
>>16736547
This works in personal life. What if it's your co-worker you just have to put up with? What if it's a client or your boss? Don't wanna lose a customer just because they piss you off.
>>16736549
>This is retarded if it's true, please find less emotionally needy people
So you're saying it's up to you to not get pulled in the guilt vortex and recognize you're being played. How do you tell though they're going too far though? Where do you set the limit?
>Who cares?
Apparently they do. They may be otherwise useful as members.
I get that at some point you have to stop giving shit. But how do you tell they've gone too far and it's time for you to ignore their shit?
>>16736563
I'm the boss and I don't have personal conversations with my customers or clients. If they get their feelings hurt during the course of business they can get fucked.
>>16736536
as a white male everything I say offends someone so I just say what i want now, if your feelings are hurt, well that's too damn bad because you're a grown ass adult (I never personally attack people for the record)
within reason
I don't actively avoid offending people. If you do this you'll be walking on eggshells your whole life. I'll say whatever I want, but if I do offend someone with my words I'll apologize for upsetting them because that wasn't what I was aiming to do. But, I'll never apologize for my words.
Your example situations are all dogshit.
>>16736569
>If they get their feelings hurt during the course of business they can get fucked.
So you literally NEVER apologize for anything? I'm not buying it, you must have some rule you're perhaps not fully conscious of, like "ok I really fucked up this time, I see that and I'm sorry" vs "I didn't do dick, I'm not even gonna bother responding to this"
>>16736572
Suck on a fat dick cracker. Your post was utterly shit and I hope you kill yourself.
(hope this doesn't offend you, you're a "grown ass adult" as you said yourself)
>>16736575
>I don't actively avoid offending people.
I do because I don't wanna be fired/killed/attacked/have my face bashed in with a brick/lose all my friends
>If you do this you'll be walking on eggshells your whole life.
Hence I ask - where is the line.
>I'll say whatever I want, but if I do offend someone with my words I'll apologize for upsetting them because that wasn't what I was aiming to do.
You're a faggot but I apologize for upsetting you, it clearly was not my intent. Let me fart in your face as a ritual of peace.
>But, I'll never apologize for my words.
Neither will I. Bros b4 Hos.
>Your example situations are all dogshit.
And you're mom is so fat her body mass changes the earth's gravity in the solar system.
OP here. As you guys probably guessed my gimmick for this this thread is gonna be gradually being more offensive/annoying and see if you're being men/women of your word and you really fucking mean what you say.
My word is my bond. Swag.
>>16736616
>" never personally attack someone"
dumb nigger can't even read
That is, if anyone is still assed responding and I won't have to samefag the rest of it.
4chan is giving me some weird "connection errors" when I hit "Update", I wonder if it's sitewide or just me.
Do you guys enjoy pulling shit nuggets out of your anus? It's a fun way to spend your time. Let's hear some stories. I can post pics if you want.
In a perfect situation, it never comes up.
Example: some of my closest friends can basically put up with anything I say to them or vice-versa. That's why we're such good friends.
If it's in a professional setting or something, though, I find it easiest to just not take a chance unless it's absolutely necessary. Too much of a hassle nowadays to get in some never ending argument with someone, especially if you're expected to work with them. Everyone reacts differently to 'offensive stuff', the key is hiding your power level until you know they aren't gonna chew your head off for it.
>>16736624
So that is the line then. Personal attack.
How do you tell if you're actually being personally attacked or not?
What rule did you use?
I can read but I want a heuristic. Imagine you're programming an AI. Yes I'm autism if you HAVE TO ask but you probably know that by now.
Also I must say I'm very offended by you calling me a "dumb nigger". I'm a proud African American. I have graduated top of my class in ebonics and I can out-logic any one of you from over a 100 yards with my left brown testicle. Get ready for a fight cause I'm not letting go of this one. I took personal offense to what you said. It simply won't fly - calling someone a "dumb nigger" on the internet and getting away with it. You WILL pay for this - I promise you my friend.
>>16736616
> I do because I don't wanna be fired/killed/attacked/have my face bashed in with a brick/lose all my friends
Vhew lad, you are a paranoid one,
Firing people for having a different opinion is basically illegal in most of the western world
Being afraid of being killed/hit with a brick only applies to chavs, muzzies and other retarded and violent parts of the population.
Loosing friends because they think you are being direct, when honesty is a sign of friendship, is a ridiculous notion. How can they be your friends if they would cut you off if ever you spoke your mind? then you are not friends.
Girls being angry with you for cheating in a dream should get a verbal backhand. Something along the lines of
"Shut the fuck up bitch, you were dreaming, I want to sleep, if you want to hazzle me for imaginary things, then get out of my house. Cunt."
Maybe leave out the cunt, maybe the bitch as well, but state your mind clearly.
What you are deep down, is a people pleaser. You want to be friendly with everyone and cannot handle an argument with heated words unless you are debating trolls on 4chan.
But you cannot be friends with everyone, and I bet you that some of your "friends" think you are a boring piece of cardboard because you have no opinions about anything that isn¨'t totally within the norm. And you come off as the type of guy who will instantly retract from any argument, so people percieve you as being weak.
I mean there's usually a general consensus of what's really going beyond the limit. If you think it's just a small thing that it is silly to be offended by, it probably is. The rule of thumb I use is to never discuss religion, politics, stuff to do with gay people and stuff to do with discussing people's body types. Of course I discuss these with close friends and boyfriends, but not to co workers or acquaintances. That generally prevents someone from being offended. At some point though you have to realize that sometimes even a small joke will piss someone off, and it's not because you're too vulgar, it's because that person is just too fucking sensitive. At that point you just need to stop giving a fuck whether they're offended or not and just go about your life as normal ignoring them.
>your gf accuses you of cheating because she had a dream of you being with another woman, you think she's joking, but she's actually offended for real
I wouldn't take this seriously at all. Would just ignore her till she gets over herself, and if she doesn't, break up cause she's crazy.
>your old classmate doesn't talk to you because you jokingly used their old nickname which mocks their surname
They're being overly sensitive. Ignore till they get the fuck over it.
>users of a website want to ban a certain emoticon because it reminds them too much in shape of a penis, you wonder what kind of perverted mind could see a penis in that
Everyone is overly sensitive. Ignore.
>someone's religious feelings are hurt because you said islam is in some way responsible for 9/11 attacks
This is not good. Keep this opinion to yourself.
>your friend is offended you didn't respond to them while you were busy taking a shit
Ignore.
I don't give a fuck if I offend anyone, they will get over it. I like being honest, some people hate me for it but at least I can feel good knowing that I'm not one of those people that talks about others behind their back.
>>16736628
Dang, the errors were somehow related to using adblock, and it's described here http://www.4chan.org/feedback
Turning off adblock plus seems to have fixed it.
>>16736642
>Example: some of my closest friends can basically put up with anything I say to them or vice-versa. That's why we're such good friends.
What about those who can't? You just give up and nuke them from your life? What if they're family?
>Too much of a hassle nowadays to get in some never ending argument with someone, especially if you're expected to work with them.
Agreed. I also avoid arguments in a professional setting - not because I'm a wuss but we're trying to accomplish some goals together and winning shitty debates and proving you're right isn't one of them.
>the key is hiding your power level until you know they aren't gonna chew your head off for it
Good /adv/ice.
>>16736580
Offending people is not the only reason to apologize. If you don't have personal conversations, then there shouldn't be problems. Keep your personal life out of your work, it's not fucking hard.
>>16736650
>Vhew lad, you are a paranoid one,
I exaggerated it a bit but my point was that you have to avoid conflict in day-to-day life for practical reasons and it doesn't mean you're a sissy, so you might as well get good at it. I feel I get hooked too often, and sometimes probably crossing the line myself without knowing - hence looking for some rules to patch up my rulebook.
>Being afraid of being killed/hit with a brick only applies to chavs, muzzies and other retarded and violent parts of the population.
You talk as if they weren't a part of our everyday experience. You encounter them even in developed countries. I'd even go as far as to say MOST people are emotional, illogical and fucking retarded. No offence. Hell, I'd even accuse myself of being one of them! Top that!
>Loosing friends because they think you are being direct, when honesty is a sign of friendship, is a ridiculous notion.
I agree, but what if they don't agree? It hurts although it shouldn't. I feel remorseful although I know I done the right thing. I try to desensitize myself by trolling hard on the internet.
>What you are deep down, is a people pleaser.
No shit. Call me beta, omega, whatever you want. What's the cure? Daily dose of hard trolling is the best self-medication I could come up with on my own. It helps me not give a shit.
>You want to be friendly with everyone and cannot handle an argument with heated words unless you are debating trolls on 4chan.
I'm one of their kind. Except when I'm butthurt I don't expect anyone to lick my asshole clean.
>I bet you that some of your "friends" think you are a boring piece of cardboard because you have no opinions
>And you come off as the type of guy who will instantly retract from any argument, so people percieve you as being weak.
I think it's the other way around. Most think I'm a dickwad. XD XD XD
>>16736651
>I mean there's usually a general consensus of what's really going beyond the limit.
Ya, well let's say I'm a little behind when it comes to social rules.
>If you think it's just a small thing that it is silly to be offended by, it probably is.
Shut your cunt whore.
(was this a small thing? everyone is anonymous here, what's it matter?)
>The rule of thumb I use is to never discuss religion, politics,
Islam is the single cause of the downfall of the western civilization.
>stuff to do with gay people
Homosex should be outlawed
>and stuff to do with discussing people's body types.
Get on the threadmill fattie.
>Of course I discuss these with close friends and boyfriends, but not to co workers or acquaintances.
I try to follow that rule too without realizing it. It's a good rule. Noted down.
>At some point though you have to realize that sometimes even a small joke will piss someone off, and it's not because you're too vulgar, it's because that person is just too fucking sensitive.
Are you too sensitive if you get offended on 4chan?
>>16736714
Oh yeah? And what if they wanna chitchat, you know smalltalk? They ask how is your family. If you like this and that place. A lot of smalltalk convos are about personal life. Do you have a set of prepared neutral answers?
They ask you if you like this town. You think it's going to shit. Do you smile and say "yes I do hahaha"? How does this game work? Fucking "social" interaction. What's "social" about hurling around a bunch of lies and pretending.
>>16736750
Yes, you lie. Generally at work, part of your job is to be nice to people. If you can't be bothered to lie, then give nondescript answers, and try to keep the person you're talking to talking about themselves - customers love to talk about themselves.
Otherwise, "that's a bit too personal" is often a fine answer. There are plenty of people who don't like to talk about family.
>>16736764
>lie
>give nondescript answers
>get them to talk about themselves
>"that's a big too personal"
Noted down.
Any place to practice this? Like a smalltalk sandbox without suffering the consequences of fucking things up.
Don't know why but this pisses me off like hell. I feel like saying
"Oh thanks, I'm fine, I enjoy ocassionally sucking on fat nigger cock, how about yourself?"
By the way, how is the weather where you live, anon? (literally couldn't care less about the weather, this is just practice)
>tfw Really fantastic at offending people but then I usually feel like shit afterwards.
>>16736764
OP here again. So what many consider "being social" is about skilfully hurling around a set of lies and nondescript answers in a way that doesn't start conflict and ensures a smooth transaction.
Why the fuck someone couldn't explain this to me in those words while I was growing up. I used to think people are really being nice, and really give 2 dicks about what I answer. If you figured all this out on your own good game to you.
OP again. Don't know about you guys, but I feel the compulsion to throw in words like "dick" or "niggers" into sentences when I feel like I'm talking to someone I know doesn't care about what they're saying/asking and just doing it for the ritual. I usually just wanna get straight down to business. Strangely enough this chit chat makes most people COMFORTABLE. With me it's the other way around. It's this very pretentiousness that's making me uncomfortable.
I know this starts sounding like some blog/monologue. Maybe I'll samefag some comments for shits and giggles.
>>16736801
Yes, that's what being social is. Friendship is where you don't have to do any of that pretending.
>>16736788
Rainy as ever, how about where you are?
>>16736788
>>16736801
>>16736824
Oh man you're weird. I love
>"how are you?"
>"I'm fine thanks"
>"I'm fine too"
>"haha"
I literally beat off to this stuff, if gives me maximum comfort. How is your day by the way? Jerking off to any new animes? What do you think about muslims runing this beautiful contry? You know, just making conversation.
>>16736824
It's not pretentious, you ass - why the fuck would anyone care what you think? Do you care what they think? Just be nice and don't get in anyone's way.
>>16736832
Oh I love muslimism. Can't wait to pray to allah myself hahaha. Nuke a building or two hahaha.
The animes? I like Okama no Chinchin SQUASH! No monogatari, although it started getting shit after the 5th season.
Is your mom still fat? Say hi to me to other rednecks in your shithole of a place. HAHAHA
We should hang out AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
>>16736831
>Yes, that's what being social is. Friendship is where you don't have to do any of that pretending.
Fair enough. A latecomer to the game but better that than never.
>Rainy as ever, how about where you are?
It's raining cats and dogs.
>>16736834
>t's not pretentious, you ass
Whoa, there's no need for such language.
>why the fuck would anyone care what you think?
Rude.
>Do you care what they think?
Of course. Remember - your opinion MATTERS
>Just be nice and don't get in anyone's way.
Yes sir, bending over, my body is ready for the insertion.
>>16736855
Refraining from blurting out 'Islam caused 9/11' ≠ bending over.
>>16736834
You give a valid argument though. They probably don't care what I've to say the same way I don't.
But then why pretend we do? Why not say "I know you don't care, I don't either, let's get this over with and go home". Why the additional step of putting on a little fake show?
What is the practical advantage of this? It's protocol, a norm. Why this, not... I don't know, some symbol like touching your left ear or something or a keyword "NGAF", why the show?
>>16736871
Because it's good to know people aren't out to harm you and bear you no ill will.
>>16736871
A possible answer - for the retards like me who can't always tell protocol from actual real feelings. In other words if they can't tell anyway - let them be fooled into thinking we're being nice. On some level this makes sense.
>>16736879
And you tell that by whether they are skilled/assed enough to put on a little "friendliness show"? A little shit criteria if you ask me. You have to make up your own mind on whether you can trust them regardless of whatever they say or do anyway.
>>16736890
No, the point is there is a vast territory between trust and distrust which is simple indifference, which is what makes society possible. You're trying to define everything except friendship as some kind of hostility, and it isn't. Society would grind to a halt if we had to know each other before we disregarded each other.
So the rule is
"If I care enough to put on a show of friendliness (even if I don't actually care about you, but I care about the transaction we're here to make sure goes through smoothly) = I can be trusted with not being set out to harm or bare ill will"
What if I put on a nice face and screw you over anyway?
What guarantee does it give you you can trust me?
>>16736917
Why do you keep bringing up trust? Trust has nothing to do with anything. You don't go to work to make friends, you go to work to make money.
>>16736916
>No, the point is there is a vast territory between trust and distrust which is simple indifference, which is what makes society possible.
Alright, but why not show that indifference? Why put in the effort of pretending nice, perfectly knowing it's fake?
Only answer I can come up with is that there are people too dense enough (perhaps including myself) to not not always recognize the difference between the mask and actual feelings / things that matter - it's for them. Just in case they thought you were being honest let them think you were honestly nice rather than honestly indifferent/rude. (I'm trying hard here to make sense of this alright)
>You're trying to define everything except friendship as some kind of hostility, and it isn't.
I'm not saying it's hostile. I'm saying it's needlessly fake. I want to know why I'm putting in all this effort. Maybe it makes sense and I'm just that dense.
>>16736536
Don't bother anymore. Four years at university taught me that.
People being retarded and emotional over little things is nothing that you can solve. I just cut them out of my life and things improved dramatically. God speed OP.
>>16736932
I thought we play nice to each other so that we can TRUST that if something nasty happens (rough situation in work, someone farted, someone fell over, whatever) the other person will also make effort to play nice. Wait maybe that's it. We can't have a genuine connection with those strangers so the best we can muster is at least pretend some replacement for it. Some are willing to play along, some aren't - those are usually called "unsocial" and it has nothing to do with having friends or not. Did I get it right?
>>16736937
Because it's more pleasant to be spoken to nicely than briskly, and if you want that it's fair to expect you to give it out as well. It's not fake, it's social - not being offhand with your colleagues isn't a false version of friendship, it's just going to the bare minimum of effort. Do you think washing is fake because in reality we have body odor?
Expecting to make instant real connection with people you only associate with for pragmatic reasons is more shallow than just making the basic level of communication tolerable for everyone. No, it isn't being done to deceive - niceness *is* being social. It's not a fake version of friendship, friends aren't people who are just nice to you, they're people who are open with you. It's horrifying when dumb people in a workplace think because you were nice to them, you actively like them, and end up trying to befriend you. You should be able to tell if you have someone's genuine interest.
>>16736949
I wouldn't say 'trust', I'd say 'expect'. These people genuinely aren't going to attack you just because they're not interested in you. They're not going to suddenly round on you, they're not trying to deceive you, they just want a quiet life the same as you do.
>>16736958
>Because it's more pleasant to be spoken to nicely than briskly,
>and if you want that it's fair to expect you to give it out as well
Fair enough.
>It's not fake, it's social - not being offhand with your colleagues isn't a false version of friendship, it's just going to the bare minimum of effort.
It is fake but perhaps not such a bad idea after all. I don't like people barking at me.
>Expecting to make instant real connection with people
This is what it may be really about. Even if the price is conflict.
>No, it isn't being done to deceive - niceness *is* being social.
It's ingenuine. You may foolishly start to think they actually enjoy working with you.
>friends aren't people who are just nice to you, they're people who are open with you.
Good insight.
>It's horrifying when dumb people in a workplace think because you were nice to them, you actively like them
Oh shit, that's me.
>You should be able to tell if you have someone's genuine interest.
This is probably about this as well. Getting better at this.
