This is long, but it's really something that needs to be addressed. I'm a white male, 22. My gf is indian, almost 22. We have been together for 2 years when the following story took place: Throughout her life, her parents have been bringing her up in the indian culture they follow... Without her even knowing. Essentially, their culture dictates she needs to be in an arranged marriage with an indian male.
In general, her parents have been strict, so she was scared what they might think of her having a bf. Last August, when I secretly went to visit, as I did every so often, they caught us holding hands in town. They basically told her she had to decide between me and her family, and if it were me then she was effectively kicked out of the house, once she had enough money to move out. The dad hasn't spoken to her since. I continued to visit in secret such as at christmas to give her a necklace, pretending she had to work that day because her parents don't give her permission to leave otherwise. However, by this point we have entered the 'limbo' state of the situation. My gf is left to make this choice. She said she would move out this July, after doing some exams she wanted to take. That's fine I can wait. However, she seemed to misunderstand the situation and lived in hope that things would resolve themselves. So we're in 'limbo' where the situation is just at a stand still with nothing happening. Before I went to visit at christmas, she asked if she could come to the area I live in, pretending to visit friends. Her parents of course said no, hence why I went to see her.
[Continued in first comment]
[Continued]
Fast forward to a few days ago. Her birthday's coming up and she asked again to come to my area. Instead of saying no, they re-stated the entire 'kicking her out' thing, and followed up by her mum now also not talking to her (except of course to use her discount at the store she works at), as well as both parents giving her angry stares when she enters the room. This sent her once again into a depressed state. Pretty much every week or so since this all went down, she'd get depressed and cry a lot for a few days. It's gotten the point where she has finally admitted that it is mental torture. She is absolutely terrified of her parents. What they're doing is essentially illegal now. I think she's finally starting to realise the reality of the situation. Instead of leaving in July she's thinking of leaving in March after her driving test. However, she still cares about her parents and doesn't want to lose them from her life forever. But at the same time, she's also said that even if I wasn't her bf, she still wouldn't go along with the culture she was seemingly forced into.
Now for the advice. What the fuck do I do here? I think the behaviour of the parents could warrant a police call, but I couldn't do that behind her back, but if I told her, I don't think she'd want me to. Doing some research on the culture, I've come to understand that reason, emotions, and general social constructs are irrelevant when their 'honour' is at stake. That is, the family 'honour' of abiding by this backwards ass conventions. I don't care what culture you are, any culture that promotes this sort of behaviour and narrow-minded thinking is just wrong. It's an absolute injustice. How dare you try take control of someone's life to this extent, let alone doing it through pathetic, childish fear-tactics. All in all, I'm at a loss for words. I'll support my gf whichever decision she chooses as long as she is happy with it.
So any advice, /adv/?
>>16706807
>In general, her parents have been strict, so she was scared what they might think of her having a bf. Last August, when I secretly went to visit, as I did every so often, they caught us holding hands in town. They basically told her she had to decide between me and her family, and if it were me then she was effectively kicked out of the house, once she had enough money to move out. The dad hasn't spoken to her since. I continued to visit in secret such as at christmas to give her a necklace, pretending she had to work that day because her parents don't give her permission to leave otherwise. However, by this point we have entered the 'limbo' state of the situation. My gf is left to make this choice.
shes a grown fucking woman. If she thinks you're worth it, she'd get kicked out, find a job to support herself, and be with you.
They are trying to use financial leverage. If you were adults you wouldn't let that shit slide. So I guess the answer is tell her its off, because neither of you can make that kind of adult decision. Sneaking around is for kids.
Indian here. There's nothing YOU can do about it except support her if she needs your support. Also I don't quite see what part of what they're doing is supposedly illegal
>>16706827
As I said, she doesn't want to lose her parents, and she's terrified of them.
>>16706835
Domestic abuse, no? They treat her awfully.
>>16706815
>I think the behaviour of the parents could warrant a police call
They're not doing anything illegal. She's still attached, and they seem to be supporting her (or at least allowing her to live under their roof). It's all on your girlfriend right now. She can either dive out of the nest or wait until they inevitably kick her out.
>>16706845
>Domestic abuse, no? They treat her awfully.
How is it domestic abuse? "Our house, our rules" is not domestic abuse. They've told her the deal, and she knew it all along as she grew up. And like I said, this is all up to her
>>16706845
>Domestic abuse, no? They treat her awfully.
They're not laying hands on her, are they? If not, you have no leg to stand on. You'd also have to get her to go against them, and in the heat of the moment, she probably won't.
>As I said, she doesn't want to lose her parents, and she's terrified of them.
She'll have to lose them, for some period of time. As they get older, and they realize she's had children, they may try to reach out to her.
Domestic abuse isn't just physical abuse.
>>16706858
Okay. Now how do you prove that they're abusing her if it's not physical?
>>16706858
You're right, it's not. But even if this has reached a level of psychological or emotional abuse, what are the police going to do about it? They can't force her parents to talk to her, and she knows what she has to do to get them to talk to her. The police also can't force her parents to support her and let her live under their roof if she's not prepared to live under their terms.
>>16706852
This is beyond 'the deal', this is purposefully being nasty on a daily basis to scare her into a life she doesn't want to live. She didn't know it 'all along' if you read the start of the post.
>>16706869
This.
>>16706870
See >>16706869. There's no outcome of this, even if it is classified as domestic abuse, that'll fix her relationship with her parents, other than her choosing them over you. It's up to her whether she wants to make this decision
>>16706869
That's why I said "I think", so thanks for letting me know. Either way, there must be something that can be done. It's fucking atrocious at this point.
>>16706870
Also she knew all along that they expected her to have an arranged marriage, and she still went behind their backs and dated you. Maybe if she'd been honest and upfront about it from the start, they'd have been less strict about it, but this goes beyond just doing something they disapprove of - she was plain dishonest. Even as an Indian girl, I have little sympathy for her. She's not entirely blameless for the position she's in
>>16706890
>there must be something that can be done
Yeah, there is. You get out of her life so she can repair the relationship with her parents. Either that, or she ditch them completely.
>>16706890
>Either way, there must be something that can be done.
Yeah, she can make her own decision. Stay out of this, but be there to support her. Otherwise, you're just going to fuck up your future together.
>>16706892
She didn't know. She had no idea her parents were setting her up for that. She had a white boyfriend in the past and her parents didn't cause a fuss. Just seems like now they are because she's this age. She is entirely blameless. If her parents weren't as intimidating and controlling as they are and let her go see her boyfriend who came to visit then maybe she wouldn't have to see him in private, that she has a right to.
>>16706902
>If her parents weren't as intimidating and controlling as they are and let her go see her boyfriend who came to visit then maybe she wouldn't have to see him in private, that she has a right to.
Again, this comes back to 'their house, their rules'. She can move out if she doesn't like it. She's an adult
>>16706902
>If her parents weren't as intimidating and controlling as they are and let her go see her boyfriend who came to visit then maybe she wouldn't have to see him in private, that she has a right to.
You don't seem to understand the situation. She doesn't NEED their permission. She's asking for it, because she wants their money/shelter, which they don't have to provide for her after 18. They're assholes, but legally, they're not doing anything wrong.
>>16706909
'their house, their rules' is an awful excuse.
>>16706914
Tough shit, that's life. It's on her to make a decision.
>>16706914
Cry harder, that's how it is. Don't act like she doesn't have options, because they've literally told her what her options are
>>16706915
So let's say I was your dad and you were living in my house. You had no money to move out. Whenever your returned home from your job, I'd have a loud recording in your room shouting abusive shit constantly and wouldn't let you turn it off, I'd also shit under your bed sheets every day and if you did anything bad I'd threaten you. But it's okay, you'd live with it right cause it was my house my rules right?
>>16706926
That's asshole and potentially abusive behaviour, but that's not illegal in the sense that anyone can make you stop because yes, it is your house. If you did that to me, I'd do what I can to move out, I wouldn't sit there and accept it.
>>16706926
>But it's okay, you'd live with it right cause it was my house my rules right?
No, I wouldn't live with it. I'd take my chances and move the fuck out. I left home at 18 myself, with $50 to my name, and I'm doing just fine. Why are you getting pissed at us? Your attitude seems to say that you think we're just siding with the parents and shitting all over you two. We're not. Legally, there is abso-fucking-lutely nothing you can do. She is not underage, which means she's not entitled to their money/home.
>>16706926
That's nowhere near what they're doing. All they've done is told her that they disapprove of what she's doing and that if she wants to continue doing it, she has to move out, and they're not talking to her. apples to oranges, and
>>16706926
>>16706955
>apples to oranges, and
You're comparing apples to oranges and exaggerating the seriousness of what they've done.
>>16706926
Look, no one here is denying that her family is garbage. But she has to leave in her own time. She will, if she truly values you. Maybe that's what you're afraid of.
>>16706958
All I know is what they've done and are doing is awful. Like, she's been there daughter obviously for over 20 years and they're essentially giving that up just because of some shitty culture? It's clear they're trying to keep her through fear and threats, but still, what a fucking joke. Fuck this world. There's nothing stopping her, aside from losing her parents. Despite what they're doing now she still has attachments to them for obvious reasons, they've been there for her her whole life up till now where they're the complete opposite.
I'm not afraid of her leaving me. Of course that would suck, but her happiness is more important to me than my feelings. I'm afraid of her sticking with her parents who make her unhappy and living a life she doesn't want to live, all for the sake of keeping that bond with her parents.
>>16707002
You're imposing your western values on people with other values. Their culture isn't important to you, but it is to them. Even if you disagree with that sentiment, you need to respect that if you want to be in this girl's life for any length of time.
>>16707016
>16707016
How can you respect a culture that approves of just awful things? Not talking about just this immoral instance, I'm sure far worse goes on and yet as a culture it is accepted.
>>16707048
You don't understand because you probably have "American" culture. Do you eat meat? Do you drive cars? There are people that think you're evil for doing things like that. It all comes down to values.
>>16707048
See, now you're being ignorant too. There are good and bad aspects to every culture, there is no black and white when it comes to these things. If you want to date a girl who shares your own values, date a white girl. I'm getting more of an impression about the type of person you are, and I really do hope she picks her parents over you.
>>16707061
She shares her values with me, as I stated before. I'm not being ignorant. People in similar situations have been murdered for not complying with an arranged marriage. Yeah, great culture m8. I'm the type of person that doesn't give a fuck about who you are as long as you don't do awful shit to people.
>>16707048
Because things being "terrible" is a judgment made from your cultural perspective and those things are actually juat part of other cultures. As long as no one is dying or being forced to do things they don't want to do, they should be left alone. Of course if she wants to go, thats good. If not and she's able to be happy with her family/culture, thats good as well. Happiness and the morality it spawns from is diffrent in other cultures.
>>16706807
Bro you need to decide yourself if you want this girl. If you do then get her to move in with you asap, and get her to cut off her parents for a while then try reconcile them once yous are married/ have children.
Don't do what I did and say you want her but don't have a concrete plan of how its going you are gonna make it work. I was in a similiar situaation to you, and my girlfriend got married to the guy she was arranged to yesterday.
>>16707082
>She shares her values with me
I promise you, she doesn't. Definitely not to the extent that you believe she does. She was raised in a certain environment that you weren't raised in, and as a result she's going to have slightly different values which may manifest themselves in bigger issues down the line.
>People in similar situations have been murdered for not complying with an arranged marriage.
There are extremists everywhere. There are people in western culture who believe that gay marriage and abortions are the work of the devil. Like I said, every culture has its good and bad, and every culture has its extremists. The fact is, her parents' culture isn't an extremist view. You just think it is because you have a vested interest in how they practice it in the form of their daughter.
>I'm the type of person that doesn't give a fuck about who you are as long as you don't do awful shit to people.
Most people agree with this, sure. But to them, they're not doing anything wrong. They just want the best for their daughter, and they want to secure her future with an arranged marriage. If she's going to disobey them, then she's to be left to their own devices and to forge her own path.
You're really not seeing this objectively, and given how you view her parents and her culture, I really don't think you're suitable as a long term partner for her, to be honest. You simply don't have any respect for any aspect of her life that isn't what you're used to.
>>16707088
Oh thanks, that makes way more sense. Yeah, so, it's just my judgement right? Aaaall my opinion. So my gf crying every week and feeling like she's being mentally tortured because of how her parents are behaving as a result of following their culture, that has nothing to do with how her parents are behaving as a result of following their culture? Cool, thanks.
>>16707048
Don't bother engaging with relativists, they are mentals. Same kind of people who excuse rapefugees and blame the natives for not 'integrating'
>>16707107
Like I said earlier: don't pretend she doesn't have options.
>>16707103
I understand the intentions, it's their process and solution to achieving their intention that just completely baffles me. It's so backwards.
Oh I'm suitable, don't you worry.
tfw u literally just realized non indian people actually date indian people -_-
I'm not.
>>16707103
Youre the one not being objective, youre excusing liberty being trampled because the people doing it are 'cultural', you really are a creep
>>16707121
>It's so backwards.
To you. To them, it's just part of life. This brings us back to values, and you have different values to them.
And you're definitely not suitable if you don't respect her family and her culture. And you don't.
>>16707136
> Sati is not backwards, you just dont respect it, try being a bit more tolerant
what the FUCK is wrong with you?
>>16707143
I never said that, don't put words in my mouth. I didn't even imply it. Very few people agree it's acceptable, even in India. That's not even what's being discussed here anyway, so it's irrelevant. You're not in a position to judge someone else's culture is what the point is.
>>16707136
She doesn't respect the culture either. I would respect her parents if they stopped being childish and stopped bullying her. It's unnecessary additional pain.
DESIGNATED
>>16707161
And again, this comes back to 'their house, their rules'. If she doesn't like it, she can move out. We're going around in circles
>>16707151
youre defending arranged marriage because its 'a part of someone elses culture' and by virtue of that its also immune to criticism? does that sound fucking objective to you? youre saying that i cant point out how evil things like sati, arranged marriages, the caste system etc. are because im not a part of that? stooge
>>16707174
Is that what you're getting from their comment? Because that's not what I'm reading at all.
>>16707174
I'm saying that their values are different to yours. What's important to them may not be important to you, and vice versa. What's evil to them might be fine to you, and vice versa. Every culture has good and bad aspects, you can't pretend another culture is bad just because it's different. Also suttee and the caste system are generally outlawed in India, you're comparing Indian 100 years ago to now. Arranged marriages are just another form of marriage, and there's nothing inherently wrong about them if you actually know the process behind them instead of just assuming that the mainstream western media is right.
>>16707168
Reiterating my point of shitting on your bed, remembering that you're NOT in a position to move out, you'd still respect me?
>>16707185
But she is in a position to move out. She's an adult, and thus should be expected to act like an adult. It may mean having to put some things on hold, like her education, but no one said that it'd be easy. She has options. Saying she has no options is just wrong.
>>16707185
Also you completely ignored the responses to that post earlier.
>>16707182
thats cos youre a dumbell
>>16707184
there are still things that are universally right and wrong, and just because someone believes something is one way doesnt make it true. it doesnt matter if its a part of someones 'culture'
whatever, have fun conserving your backwards third worlder ways, its only holding you back
>>16707203
>there are still things that are universally right and wrong
Of the three things you listed, the only thing that is close to being considered universally wrong is suttee. Which, like I said, is generally outlawed.
>>16707198
And you ignored the point of mine.
Look guys, this is what it comes down to: After 2 and half years I absolutely love and adore my girlfriend, and I can't stand to see her like this. It's not a matter of "she can just move out" because like I said, that's proving difficult because she doesn't want to lose her parents. I'm left trying to work around it to find a way to resolve the issue so that she is happy. Even if that means she leaves me, as long as she's happy then that's all that matters to me. If you're telling me I just need to wait it out then fine. But I'm still going to look for ways to at least improve the situation.
>>16707229
>And you ignored the point of mine.
What is your point?
They've given her an ultimatum. She knows it, and it's up to her to follow it. There's nothing you can do, because this is her decision to make and it's up to her to deal with the consequences. It's not an easy decision, I acknowledge that, but it's still one she has to make
>>16707229
>I'm left trying to work around it to find a way to resolve the issue so that she is happy. Even if that means she leaves me, as long as she's happy then that's all that matters to me. If you're telling me I just need to wait it out then fine.
Seriously, that's all you can do. If you break it off and try to push her towards her parents, she'll become desperate, lonely, and depressed. She may even do what they tell her to, because what's the point in standing up to them if she doesn't have you? And you can't legally do anything without her. Even if you tried, they're still her parents and I'm sure she wants some hope of open communication later on.
give them some designated street shitting area and appease them.
