I'm struggling with a philosophical question right now. (I broke up with my gf on christmas and my career has recently turned into a dumpster fire, but I don't want to talk about that; that's just the context to my question.) Here's my philosophical question:
>How can we do what we have to, to survive, and still live with ourselves?
I know literally why we have to, of course. You have to kill to eat. But how do we, as humans, as a species, not turn into monsters along the way? I'm an attorney and I have a lot of disgust for my profession - the shitty people in it, but moreso the shittiness of the people that require lawyers, even just shady business people and petty people in petty conflicts. My relationship that just ended was needlessly aggressive and filled with antipathy (her emotional issues) and it makes me feel like there's no other choice between being the butcher or being the cattle (to steal a theme from the walking dead). You either emotionally manipulate, scam, cheat and trick your way into what you want, or you get eaten up by the people around you doing it.
But I don't want either choice.
You guys have any thoughts on this? Im gonna get drunk in the meantime.
these are the flaws of capitalism, comrade.
>>16607456
Yeah, no shit. But it's also something bigger than economics, you see the same behavior in the law of the jungle, and in sex/reproduction.
Is this just what evil is?
it looks like you are seeing relationships and life around you as a competitive environment filled with pressure
it may be true to some extent, but there are different ways of perceiving the world that makes it more pleasurable to live
A lawyer, the profession of ruthlessness to survive and be up on top. Often times I hear about the moraility of person is questioned countlessly in the profession to the point where people end up emotionally dead, they quit, they maintain their morality even though it isn't advantageous or they convince themselves this is how the world is meant to be.
Listen OP, never ever take the easy way out to make a quick buck. If you have to question your integrity as a person and you aren't comfortable then bail out. I know this sounds like some hippie shit that is supposedly not feasible in your profession but understand that the moment you convince yourself that it is okay to throw away your humanity you will be mentally fucked up.
The girl thing is simply a lack compatibility and nothing else. Learn from what you gained from the relationship (good and bad) then write it down. Yes write it down in a journal and then invoke heavy introspection on what you could have done differently and what you plan to do from now.
I apologize if I come off as a rambling faggot but I am pretty high right now kek.
>>16607470
that's an interesting way of putting it, yeah - I guess so. Remind me of those other ways? Aren't they just comforting lies, though?
>>16607478
yeah I'm gonna blaze here too. You're making sense, but it seems like the question isn't whether or not to do it, but a dyadic CHOICE between A. succeed by losing your morality; and B. fail and keep it, and there's no other options.
I agree with you and I think that this is life, to become more bitter as you realize more truths, or at least what is true for you. I think that if you understand the world this way you must either slowly lose all hope and joy, or you must accept it for what it is and constantly do what makes you the individual happy.
There's a saying in my country that sounds alot like "ignorance is bliss", and I notice that happy people often come off as stupid, perhaps because they are, but I guess some people also just prefer to be happy/fake happiness rather than be smart and sad/angry. Lots of people try to flee from this reality by drinking or doing drugs and I can understand this but it seems like a waste of life since (y)ou (o)nly (l)ive (o)nce and doing drugs is basically the same experience every time even though it is a relatively good experience at that moment.
I find it really hard to live with myself as well, but I'd rather live and please my senses than die and be nothing. It mentally hurts when I realize that I've hurt people or made an ass of myself. This pain makes me try to avoid these situations, but it seems impossible if you want to interact with the world. I think that's lyf brah.
>>16607514
OP what do you want to do? Are you willing to throw away your morality for money and notoriety or will you struggle to keep it in your cut throat business?
You can always change your career once things are more stable.
>>16607453
nature and reality are about balance. You do need an element of ruthlessness, but even apex predators don't kill indiscriminately. They kill because they have to
To be successful you have to be willing to go in for the kill if the resources are limited, but that doesn't mean you have to be cruel or greedy. That's the problem with humans -we've been sold this idea that resources are lacking and there isn't enough for everyone. There is, but there is an artificial disparity and so everyone is willing to cheat their way into what little they can get their hands on
as long as you understand where resources are truly limited and where they are artificially limited, you can be successful without being selfish. For instance, work - if there is only one promotion available i'm not going to hesitate to go all in for it. But other aspects of life, such as relationships and physical resources? it's stupid and petty to be selfish about these things. So when I encounter someone who is, someone who is willing to be vile over something that I can get at another time, I tend to keep out of fights like that unless i'm immediately threatened
>>16607514
the majority of people sees the world as a competitive enviroment, so it seems more real to perceive it that way
the way I see it is just like a game, you can always play it and do your best to win, but you don't need to play it as a life or death situation
you can relax and enjoy it
how to do it? that's someone that i haven't found yet, but it has to do with taking our life and our personality less seriously
>>16607539
I like it, although I don't think your point about apex predators works - the issue isn't doing it 'discriminately'. They do it to eat, to live, to take what they want or need from others.
How do you properly tell when resources are limited, though? The artificial disparity may be created by other people, but it's real to everyone caught in it, and they are forced into these dirty choices.
And there may be a million women out there, but when there's a biological cutthroatness to all of them, then they're all the same.
>>16607565
>relax and enjoy hurting other people
I just find it morally objectionable. I haven't found it either. I don't even know where to look anymore.
>>16607575
>I like it, although I don't think your point about apex predators works - the issue isn't doing it 'discriminately'. They do it to eat, to live, to take what they want or need from others.
But they understand balance - they don't take more than they need, otherwise they starve. I mean yes when you take it literally, someone is getting the shit end of the deal because they die to be eaten, but that doesn't occur in human terms generally speaking. The point is that the most successful animals aren't necessarily the most bloodthirsty, they're just the most *capable* and know how to use that capability with good judgement.
>How do you properly tell when resources are limited, though? The artificial disparity may be created by other people, but it's real to everyone caught in it, and they are forced into these dirty choices.
just take the time to think about it. Consider how it's marketed and why it's marketed that way. I think how limited this resource is might be inversely proportionate to how urgently it's marketed.
>And there may be a million women out there, but when there's a biological cutthroatness to all of them, then they're all the same.
that "cut-throatness" is on a sliding scale, it's not a fixed aspect. Desirability is a fair standard, but it's all dependent on the individual. The best thing you can do for yourself to make yourself stand out is to become in fact a limited resource, and not an artificially limited resource either. If you're worth it, you don't have to sell yourself urgently, unlike those who need to loudly proclaim what a catch they are
>>16607595
>just take the time to think about it. Consider how it's marketed and why it's marketed that way. I think how limited this resource is might be inversely proportionate to how urgently it's marketed.
Okay, I guess what I meant to say was: how do you deal with other people who are all caught in it? That's what I feel happened with my girlfriend.
>that "cut-throatness" is on a sliding scale, it's not a fixed aspect.
I don't mean my specific dating value, I'm not concerned about it (women like lawyers). I mean the cut-throat moral attitude towards what relationships **are**. It's always a game/pressure to them - it's about measuring you and your value as a mate/father, comparing you to others, scoping, prodding for gain, trying to get what they want from you like an arms war; a race to say I'm worth more than you, you need to balance the scales, and trying to take, take, take. It sucks.
>>16607453
You broke up with your girlfriend on Christmas? Holy shit, what'd she do to you?
Stab you? Kill someone dear to you? Set your entire house on fire? Beat the crap out of you? Cheat on you? Those are the only sane excuses I can think of off the top of my head to dump a girl on Christmas - or near Christmas.
>>16607638
Hey I got all the way through all of the holidays, all the family shit on both sides. Great time. She's the one that's been starting the fights, and she's the one that (passive-aggressively) suggested breaking up with me, not the other way around.
>>16607676
But you didn't get through the holidays, because you broke up on Christmas. Unless you mean in the past? But that's the past. And why not just wait another two weeks or so before you did it?
I just don't understand your reasoning, but whatever. I guess it's one of those agree to disagree type situations. Hope I never end up with a girl with your mindset though.
>>16607698
what part of my mindset, exactly? I'm looking for stronger criticism here and I'm not sure I understand you.
>How can we do what we have to, to survive, and still live with ourselves?
We are what we are regardless of our self-perception. Life isn't black or white, humans are just as much caretakers as they are butchers and cattle.
Contemplate alone on your thoughts for a while.
Try meditating.
-no noise, no distractions, a comfortable place to kneel down or sit crosslegged,
You'd be suprised what your body will tell you whan you let your mind run.
My own experience with meditation and pyschidellics led me to some profound realizations. I cured myself of my 2 diseases with lifesyle changes that I knew I had to do all along but I didn't change until I meditated and reflected on my life so far.
>TLDR /spoiler/ Do what makes you happy /spoiler/
Tbh anon.
Reality is you have to play the game and all you're doing along the way is pulling off angst to justify the journey.
My best advice is to save up the money, go buy a farm or some cot away from most of society. Get a nice savings and live away from the beast that exists in the heart of man.
For me, it's a matter of being able to look at myself in the mirror. Each of us has to do things that we don't want to do, and we will fail sometimes to be the men we want to be. Ultimately, I think that the difference between living and living well comes from the manner in which we cultivate the manly virtues, the stuff talked about by the stoics, and even from the bible, from a time where there were real consequences to our smaller decisions, and lives, rather than feels, were the currency by which we measured our worth.
Anyhow, to me, it seems that if we feed our inner man well, our outer man will reflect that. Karlfried Graf Von Durckheim said "Only to the extend that we expose ourselves to annihilation over and over again can that which is indestructible arise within us."
I think that how we respond to failure and disappointment is more powerful than how we respond to success.
BUT, having said that, I think you're offering a false dichotomy when you said
>You either emotionally manipulate, scam, cheat and trick your way into what you want, or you get eaten up by the people around you doing it.
There's always alternatives- not to engage, for one, and to accept the consequences for doing the right thing, regardless for another. You dumped your GF at the perfect time- it was time for you to be finished. The coincidence of a holiday is external to that. In time you'll come to terms with what you did because it was correct to do regardless of external issues.
