Why do so many people worship this so much? Don't get me wrong its not terrible but so many of the characters are either bland, uninteresting or fucking annoying. Especially Shinj. He manages to be all 3. Why is this seen as one of the most talked about classic anime of the era? Is it just the nostalgia or something more?
And that fucking ending. Both of them. Both incredibly stupid and unsatisfying. If people like this, then fine, but please explain to me why so many people love it. Is it just nostalgia? Was just because it was deep? It wasn't all terrible, I liked the fighting animation, but other than that it didn't really seem to stick out to me. Please red pill me on this series/movie, because I don't see the appeal.
>>143536501
>characters are either bland, uninteresting or fucking annoying. Especially Shinj. He manages to be all 3
its like you didnt even watch it
>>143536501
>red pill
Fuck off with your shitty bait /pol/
>>143536501
Please leave Bryan.
Just go watch Bebop again.
>>143536546
I did. Shinji is fucking annoying. He quit piloting the EVA 3 times, whined constantly throughout the series, and had too many monologue scenes about how everyone hated him with looped animation that dragged on forever
>>143536587
Answer my damn question you commie
I honestly don't get it either.
The entire time I was watching the anime I felt like I was forcing myself. It was honestly pretty fucking bad. People always tell me "it's because you have to connect with Shinji" but literally at the time of watching it I was at the most suicidal part of my life.....and I still hated the shit out of him.
Maybe I just have shit taste, idk. I honestly hate this anime quite a lot. The fans don't help it either, especially when they say "omg, go read outside sources and watch the movies" no. Fuck off. I got it, but I thought it was stupid regardless.
>>143536673
>Why do so many people worship this so much?
Compared to a lot of other anime Eva is much better in a lot of ways. Animation, music, direction, attention to characters, etc.
If you haven't seen a couple hundred anime you won't sympathize with those who have, and realize how Eva goes above and beyond what was expected at that time or now.
>Especially Shinj. He manages to be all 3.
Nah, he just isn't your Spike/Naruto/Goku self-insert. Characters are boring when they are just great at everything, especially when you see those characters over and over and over again. Goku is boring, Naruto is boring, Spike is boring but relatively better because he at least isn't obnoxious about how great he is. You might as well bitch about Shakepseare's Hamlet. Main characters don't have to be your vicarious life, they can be wildly different, with tragedy being the most interesting.
>Why is this seen as one of the most talked about classic anime of the era? Is it just the nostalgia or something more?
It changed anime in many ways, as well as being very popular.
>And that fucking ending. Both of them.
Be specific.
literally the best anime of all time
Reminder that Neon Genesis Evangelion is just an autistic worse version of Mobile Suit Gundam and Space Runaway Ideon. Anyone who says it is a "deconstruction" has only seen less than 10 other animes, all of which were made after 2000. Everything that Evangelion is known for was done better 15 years earlier by the master Tomino. The only reason Eva became popular is because it pandered more to pervert pedophiles (most anime fans, especially /a/.) Evangelion is the go-to anime for newfag plebs. They say it has "deep" characters but they really only like it because the 14 year olds show a lot of skin. A big difference between Gundam and Eva is that 0079 has one of the best endings in anime history and Evangelion has not one, but two of the worst.
>>143536890
0080 war in the pocket is better and it wasn't directed by Tomino.
Even then, it is just another war horror story
>>143536501
People don't worship it. They appreciate it. Excepting the '2 deep 4 u' crowd, most people who watch Evangelion look to it as a classic period piece, one of the first really popular mecha deconstructions-- not to mention one of the first also to be widely released in the west.
The endings suck. We know. We've been talking about them for decades. Shinji is a little bitch. We know. We've been around long enough for the rebuild movies to literally try to retcon him a pair of balls. The fights are cool and the world is interesting.
In a nutshell: Popularity more than nostalgia; a jazzier word for it would be "iconic". People compared everything to Eva because it had just that much impact. It doesn't matter that RaXephon was a smoother ride and other shows played with its themes better; Eva sticks with people.
>>143536869
Ignore this fuck. Putting Eva on a pedestal is what gets us 'what the fuck did I just watch' tier responses.
>>143536927
>>143536501
Hi Brandon I didn't you posted here
>>143536864
>The entire time I was watching the anime I felt like I was forcing myself.
Same here! The only time I could watch it is either when I was eating or cleaning up something. Sitting down and watching it almost made fall asleep.
>Maybe I just have shit taste
I thought that to, but no, fuck that. Some the same people that have recommended me this anime have recommended other series such as Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Golden boy, and Trigun. And those were all fucking awesome. Its mainly This that came off as awful to me. Not completely. But still. Its nothing special
>>143536993
Not ignoring him, he makes a valid point. I just didn't feel the impact at all. A lot of other recommendations that I keep seeing or getting end up actually being really good. This came off as "meh".
>>143536993
>RaXephon
Shit sucks m8
>The endings suck. We know. We've been talking about them for decades.
>Putting Eva on a pedestal is what gets us 'what the fuck did I just watch' tier responses.
You talk as if we all agree that the endings are bad, but that isn't possible if so many have to put Eva on a pedestal to get this response
>>143537070
>Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Golden boy, and Trigun.Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Golden boy, and Trigun.
Bryan stop
This is a toonami of bait
>>143537099
On one hand, fair, EoE is actually not a bad ride, but it's not what people go to when they have to sell Eva.
On the other hand, Oye fuck off mate I will sing you to death!RaXephon only gets hate compared to Eva I think. Put aside, I think it was a better show, but that's just my opinion.
>>143536869
>Be specific.
I hated that Shinji's whole deal was WAAAAAAAH, everyone hates me! And the end was just him getting reassurance that they didn't and he liked being himself, rather than a big final battle.
And as for the movie ending, pic related.
>>143537151
Be honest with me m8, which did you see first?
I've met only one person who likes RaXephon better than Eva and it is because he saw it before Eva. Besides that we agree on nearly everything regarding taste
>>143537191
The point of the movie ending is that anybody can come back if they want to, not that they all died
>>143537191
>And as for the movie ending, pic related.
What did you think of Hamlet?
You see how retarded it sounds to say "I didn't like Hamlet because everyone died at the end"? I get it, it is current year, but bite size arguments aren't going to cut it.
>And the end was just him getting reassurance that they didn't and he liked being himself, rather than a big final battle.
That isn't what happened at the ending. Original 25-26 yes, but then EoE comes in and changes that.
>a big final battle.
Do you know how many Transformer films you can watch anytime you want? How old are you?
>>143537141
>just hit me I hate a lot of the animes that take heavy influence from Eva
Makes sense, tbqh senpai.
>>143536546
This is the way most Eva-fags respond whenever anyone questions the idea that the characters were brilliantly written and possess unparalleled psychological depth.
>>143536869
>Nah, he just isn't your Spike/Naruto/Goku self-insert.
And this is another one of their goto responses. If someone doesn't care for Shinji they assume they're complaining about him not being the macho hero type they supposedly expect (even though he does always get in the Eva and is passionate as hell about saving everyone he cares about), as opposed to just not finding the character to be all that interesting. Even despite the fact that Shinji gets a tons of "you can literally see into my mind" scenes, there's barely anything worthwhile there, as these scenes are effectively used by Anno to go on about issues he has, rather than adding much depth to the characters or drama themselves.
>>143537191
But thats the point, part of what anno was doing was showing how fucking traumatic it would be to put the weight of the world on a 14-year olds shoulders. Mix in the parental issues everyone has and you get some damaged people.
>>143537202
I saw Eva first; though truth told I've never managed to sit through EoE, thanks to what can only be called karmic interruptions.
Really I give it more credit and like it better for 3 reasons:
1. Episode 19 fucked me up. That shit was tragic.
2. I thought the Mulians made for a more cohesive and directed plot with a clear antagonist and played with themes of alienation and distrust very nicely.
3. RaXephon had the balls to make equivalent 'ShinjiXMisato' not only cannon, but the best pairing. (special condolences to Megumi, she didn't stand a chance sinceshe wasn't even born
Don't get me wrong, Eva's great. It's just RaXephon does serious WORK.
Another thing, why do people waifu this bitch so much? Please tell me its just a fetish thing. She wasn't that bad but she wasn't that interesting either
>>143537070
This has to be bait
I can see how people would not like Evangelion, but if you're like me and try and analyze every aspect of a show down to the bone then NGE is absolutely amazing.
>great animation
>great soundtrack
>fluid sound direction
>lovely visuals
>character development
Whether you like Shinji or not, he is a very great mimic of kids in today's society. I think his personality, although contrasting to the widespread opinion, is well-developed and thought-out. Especially the episode where he struggles with his feelings toward Kaworu, very real.
>>143537300
If there is any anime you like that was made after Eva and it wasn't
-a children's show
-a mecha show
-an adaptation
Then it's because of Eva that it even exists
>>143537327
>as these scenes are effectively used by Anno to go on about issues he has, rather than adding much depth to the characters or drama themselves.
These are not mutually exclusive.
Authors usually put something of themselves in their art. Anno's main character having similar problems to his own is not a sign of the character being uninteresting outright.
>there's barely anything worthwhile there
Relative to what? There is plenty worthwhile there
>>143536501
The fact that you are not sart enough to understand evangelion, does not make evangelion bad.
>>143537265
>Do you know how many Transformer films you can watch anytime you want? How old are you?
I was just suggesting an better ending. It could have just been reconnecting with his dad. Not "YAY ME! I'M A PERSON!
>>143537209
You can keep repeating this however you want, but from what we actually see what happens is almost comically, ridiculously horrible and the fate of anything resembling civilization, let alone the basic identity of the characters, is left ambiguous. I don't see you you can take any of this a face value, in any of the endings.
>>143536993
>The endings suck. We know.
Maybe if you believe that really hard it will come true.
>other shows played with its themes better
>Shinji is a little bitch
And this post >>143537191 tell me you are not qualified to argue about the quality of thematic execution of anything.
>>143537327
If Eva haters actually bothered to google what makes the characters in EVA above and beyond 99,9% of anime characters they wouldn't be making asses of themselves. Here, I did it for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4UQntM4Zjw
>>143537420
And then we have these folks who make Eva even worse.
>kek you just DON'T GET IT LOL
It's like talking to GTR R35 fanboys.
>>143537191
What's bad about an insecure character like Shinji struggling and resolving personal issues?
Just because there was no big fight scene at the end doesn't mean it's bad, because there's still a big climax.
Evangelion is like a metaphor for life.
>>143537327
>rather than adding much depth to the characters or drama themselves.
So when Shinji has flashbacks of his father leaving and he screams that he doesn't want to be left alone that doesn't add to his character or drama?
When Asuka gets mindfucked by the angel and we see her past and how her mothers behaviour scared her for life that doesn't add to her character or personality?
>>143537388
Because she's a tragic character and people want to help her.
>>143537510
I love this game.
>>143537461
>"YAY ME! I'M A PERSON!
>End of Eva
Who in the FUCK thinks the word YAY is relevant during One More Final I Need You?
I was baited hard.
Fuck you Bryan.
>>143537510
But he is actually right, you know?
You seem like the kind of guy who would say "all modern art is trash, I could do it better", without knowing fuck all about it.
>>143537463
Oh civilization is most certainly destroyed for sure yes, but the fact of the matter is that everybody isn't dead, they're just Tanged
>>143537490
Bruh, we're a bunch of grognards on an imageboard for korean cavepaintings.
Nobody is fucking qualified for anything.
Shinji is a little bitch. This does not make him a bad character, in fact if he was less of a bitch it would fuck up his whole character. He craves acceptance and acknowledgement, above all from his estranged, distant and downright vile father. He's a momma's boy who no longer has mamaCOUGHand that's a huge part of who he is.
So go wank off on your creative writing degree and stop looking down on people from that ten foot pole up your ass.
>>143537463
Yui literally tells Shinji everyone can come back at the end of Human Instrumentality
Asuka came back. How the fuck else does she end up there? Them being the only two that are back is telling of the other characters. Yet another strong moment lost to you.
You just weren't paying attention my man
>>143536993
I swear people who go "Rahxephon was better than Evangelion" are just contrarians. Not saying it was bad, but the pacing was very slow, the characters were less engaging and it had THE SAME FUCKING ENDING. Like copy paste. Chosen boy gets to redefine our physical reality to coincide with existentialist revelation. Bokurano was better than Rahxephon
>>143536869
But shinji is shit dude. I love the series but is like the epitome of being a faggot.
>>143537420
>The fact that you are not sart enough
>Sart
Anon I understood it fine. Story-wise anyway. I didn't say it was completely bad. There were some really good scene in there. I didn't see way it was seen as "anime gold" is all. To be honest there were as few points in Akria where I didn't know what the fuck was going on but I didn't think it was bad, and I understand the appeal. I just think I need to watch it again. Evengelion however, I didn't feel the same way.
Oh look, it's yet another anti-eva thread!!!
>>143537602
Who knows, I might like Bokurano more, but I haven't gotten around to seeing it yet. I outlined reasons I liked RaXephon more up here: >>143537365
Hell, I might even change my mind about Eva if I end up liking rebuild.
People like rebuild right?
>>143537604
>Anon I understood it fine.
> Akria where I didn't know what the fuck was going on
No bro you are just retarded. Akira is straight and clear as fuck
>>143537623
I don't come to /a/ very often so you'll have to give me a free ass. I'm from /co/. Everyday we have shitty threads about Batman raping the Joker. Came here to escape, and get opinions
>>143537641
Bait is bad for the soul anon
>>143537604
Nice facebook image.
To the people who think Eva is overrated, what's your favourite anime? Just curious.
>>143537671
>I'm from /co/.
Oh for fucks sake, come on, don't admit that
>>143537416
>Relative to what? There is plenty worthwhile there
If you view Eva as "something that portrays the psychological warped state of mind the people creating it possessed", then it is absolutely brilliant and first class at that. There's constant expressions of guilt, uncertainty, anxiety, fear of death and the collapse of society, concern about understanding and living up to what others expect of them, the rude "black dog" of depression turning everything in to a hazy grey in which you cannot reason up a purpose to being. All this is there.
But viewed as a drama? As a study of characters, their internal lives and how they interact? As something that offers tightly written dialog? In these ways Eva greatly falls shot of being what its fans portray it as being and seldom offers satisfaction in these areas.
>>143537693
My bad. I'm being a bit of a dick, but I actually kinda mean it.
Bokurano is definitely higher on my backlog... but soul crushing anime is hard to get started on.
>>143537671
>>143537705
>>143537694
>>143537604
Soo, this thread is full or normies who have seen less than 10 anime, and a bunch of Eva-haters who sympathize with them?
Feels good to be right.
>>143537589
You took the term way to literally. My point was that someone who would rather see a superficial flashy fight scene than the existing well executed thematic catharsis isn't someone who has credibility when talking about themes.
>>143537589
>Bokurano was better than Rahxephon
Isn't bokurano just misery for the sake of misery?
>>143537641
The fact that I can't even remember who the Mulians were, speaks to their memorability. And the show doesn't have to "have the balls" to pair anyone together. Shinji was a dysfunctional human being and that played out in his personal relationships. And if you can't finish EoE that's your problem. EoE is fantastic.
>>143536869
>Main characters don't have to be your vicarious life, they can be wildly different, with tragedy being the most interesting.
Grass on my side of the fence is MUCH BETTER hurr durr!
>>143537779
"Misery for misery's sake" you could say that about anything. Ultimately, misery is an evocative emotion
>>143537717
>But viewed as a drama? As a study of characters, their internal lives and how they interact? As something that offers tightly written dialog? In these ways Eva greatly falls shot of being what its fans portray it as being and seldom offers satisfaction in these areas.
Nah man. Look at Asuka as one example. Brings an agenda to how she treats any character which drives her to dealing with people in very different ways. Drama between her and the other pilots. The dialog between her and shinji is tight. It has weaker moments, but for example, when they kiss is a strong moment. She does it with him, says nothing, runs away (making us worry), and instead she makes a joke out of it. In reality we should be worried about her, and she constantly shows this through her worsening attitude towards Shinji.
I mean you're just wrong at this level. I can get it isn't your favorite, but it has good writing most of the time, which is far and beyond most anime which is utter shit and garbage.
Curious, what do you think is better than Eva?
>>143537831
That isn't what I said.
There are people you agree with doing a much better job of representing your side right now. Stop fucking it up for them
>>143537694
Right now? I'm in debate around Goddannar, Outlaw Star, and Gate.
EoE is fucking great.
I've read plenty of books I didn't enjoy, that doesn't make them bad. Evangelion has its fair share problems but has a lot going for it.
Its like LoGH; people bitch about it without actually providing meaningful criticism.
Problems with Eva:
-Magma Diver, all of it.
-Pacing problems [Nerv/Lilith backstory, early episodes, ect.]
-Powerpoint animation in later episodes.
Characters have lots of depth for a 26 episode show. Story is dark, unconventional, and layered like an onion. Mechs/characters/world are well designed. The show is "well shot", has a great atmosphere, and is very memorable. I love NGE's message as well.
>>143537327
Please recommend me better shows oh enlightened one. I wish to bask in your unquestionable wisdom.
>>143537388
Asuka is female version of 15 year old me.
Its been 20 years now and lots of people still like it, I really don't know what to tell you.
>>143537880
>pairing Outlaw Star with Gate
>>143537782
>>143537779
Bitch I didn't even know the EDF was still in town.
Everyone in this thread is comparing the height of their high horses and I'm just trying to talk about the show.
RE: catharsis verses 'robots punching a bit': I'd like to have both in a show if I can manage. You'll find I was supporting your point to begin with, I just took exception to being talked down to.
RE: The relationship: Eva wrote shinji's emotional attachment to the three main heroines fairly well as well as including Misato's own personal scars. RaXephon manages to amp specifically the Misato-Shinji thing up to 11 while managing to tie it relevantly to the plot. Goddamn magic. That's what I was referring to as "having the balls" to go for it.
>>143537868
> your side right now
tip top kek.
Well, from what I've read that's exactly what you've written, and that's exactly, what's in your post. If not please, oh please, enlighten me on your opinion faggot.
>>143537758
>normies
Get out
>>143537932
>>143537510
>kek
You can fuck off too, /v/ rat.
>>143537890
>Magma Diver, all of it.
It showed how everyone at NERV is risking their lives. If they fucked up the operation, the military was going to bomb the shit out of the area.
It helped to balance out the goofy, less serious tone Asuka brought to the show.
It showed that Asuka is pretty smart for her age and doesn't always act like a bitch.
Continued building the "rivalry" between Asuka and Rei.
Showed that Shinji can act and be heroic.
The episode wasn't perfect but it wasn't utter trash.
People always complain about the animation at the end but I think it really helped to convey a certain atmosphere. Maybe that's just me though.
>>143537880
>Favourite anime
>Gate
Hahahahaha, as expected by people who think Eva is overrated
>>143537932
If you watch the same episode of any show a thousand times, will it ever get boring? Ever?
Eventually people get tired of watching the same shit over and over, and so variety becomes nice. This doesn't have to do with "relativism" which is what you were getting at with your my side of the fence comment.
Meaning, you misread what I said. You thought I was saying "everything is fair game and relative, but I still think my side is better", when I was saying "this is why people like this show, a cowardly character is different from Goku-ver.14430"
Even if I wanted to make the relativist argument, we are still allowed to say why we like what we like. You coming in and screaming "but everything is relative!!" is redundant and stupid.
I think it has a lot to do with your personal sensibility and how you relate with the show's development and characters.
NGE was one of my first anime and after rewatching it a few days ago it's still my favorite.
The soundtrack also isn't given enough credit (aside from the tumbling down meme).
Mother is the first other, Splitting of the breast, and Emergency evacuation to regression for example.
>>143538051
Come on man, Magma Diver is pretty bad.
Besides the recap what episode can be worse than it (disregarding 25-26)
>>143538063
I like the setting of fantasy and military gunning each other down. And Gurren Lagann and Trigun are up there as well but I'm probably going to get shit on for liking that too aren't I?
it's been 20 years you fat fucks
the sole fact that you still argue about it means that Eva was, is and shall remain a thought-provoking masterpiece, because it provokes fucking thoughts of all kinds
>>143538107
What happens in Magma Diver? The episode where Shinji and Asuka play DDR was kinda silly
>>143537918
>catharsis verses 'robots punching a bit': I'd like to have both in a show if I can manage.
I don't see the problem then. Fist half of EoE you've got the robots punching each other, while in second half you get the catharsis. The "overcoming psychological flaws during fights" we see in shounes aren't very convincing to me.
>>143538077
The Flow of Em
Anxiety
Jesus, Joy of Man's Desire
Hole In The Dream
Too good
>>143537523
>So when Shinji has flashbacks of his father leaving and he screams that he doesn't want to be left alone that doesn't add to his character or drama?
>When Asuka gets mindfucked by the angel and we see her past and how her mothers behaviour scared her for life that doesn't add to her character or personality?
Yes, those two scenes are specifically what I'm talking about, both of them were woefully unsatisfying and specifically stick out in my mind because of this. With Shinji, you get just barely enough background to understand his basic emotions and motivation, but nothing more. You don't really get much of an impression of what his life was like before or what this transition means to him, if anything.
With Asuka, it's a whole other thing. I somewhat enjoyed watching that scene, if solely because of the glorious fuckery of using Handel's Messiah during it. But judged on the writing and what it does with Asuka? I found it extremely difficult to give a shit about anything going on at that point. Making a shallow, judgmental character and then later chalking this up to her mother cracking it (for whatever deep lore reason) just does absolutely nothing for me. The repetition also doesn't drive home the impact of anything and nothing about it felt particularly subtle (except the aforementioned 'ironic' choice of music). It just comes off as tryhard.
>>143538162
>Jesus, Joy of Man's Desire
Forgot this one, it's great as well.
>>143538151
Solving an existential crisis makes for bad battle manga, but I digress.
>>143538175
the repetition and static shots is just Anno's thing
every creator leaves fingerprints on his works
>>143538132
Nah man, Gurren and Trigun are classics. Although I don't think Trigun has aged very well. Gate is just poorly written
>>143538132
You answered it yourself. I'm not arguing about taste, but your arguments can't be taken seriously if that's what you consider the best examples of the medium.
Watch a lot of other series (and by a lot I mean it), then maybe give a try to Eva again, while trying to have a bit more attention.
It's not a series you can watch with your mind shut off like those you listed. If you have doubts again after just take 30min of reading and you'll easily find explanation for whatever was not clear or you missed.
>>143538175
>With Shinji, you get just barely enough background to understand his basic emotions and motivation, but nothing more.
In that one single scene it does enough. This is brought up again and again from different angles.
We get to see Shinji as a child at the experiment where his mother dies, his father changes away from Shinji, his comments about his father in episode 1 with the confrontation, them visiting the funeral together, etc.
It all connects and adds more. His father left him and Shinji developed in a specific way to deal with it. The whole hedgehog dilemma. This starts off as more timid and quiet, not wanting to talk, accepting him being beat up, running away, etc. It then becomes self-hate and self-frustration when Misato gets in his face that he needs to help others right now, and so he flips and says what about me. This comes as childish but it makes sense when this is all going on with him.
etc.etc.etc.
These characters have depth. You don't have to like them, but they are not shallow when we look at anime. Maybe for literature they are no where near the top but for anime they are up there.
>>143537880
Wait people like Gate?
>>143538132
Trigun is top tier and Gurren is alright/fun. I can see why you didn't like Evangelion with the shows listed. Watch more shows desu.
>>143538149
I love the DDR episode :^(
there's no reason to assume that Shinji's the main character of the show, though
>>143538107
I think no episode of NGE was outright bad.
But if I had to pick the worst one it would be the one with the Virus Angel.
>>143538175
But the point of the scene with Shinji is to show why he has daddy issues. What does it matter what his live looked like, we know he was abandoned and he turned into a whiny faggot.
The thing about the Asuka scene is that it makes her actions perfectly reasonable.
For example, when in the scene she screams about how she's an adult and doesn't want to be treated like a child it makes her attempts at fucking Kaiji reasonable.
She's not a shallow character and it's not just "hur dur she's a bitch because her mother sucked".
>>143538319
It's Pen² I knew it.
>>143538239
Hey now slow your roll slim jim. Don't be dicking on Gurren and Trigun.
Why was Gendo so cold towards Shinji?
It wasn't even putting distance between him and his son at that point, he was just an asshole. How could he not realize that he was fucking him up by doing this?
>>143538406
Gendo is Shinji, anon
their personalities are perfectly symmetrical
>>143538423
Could you elaborate? They're nothing alike
>>143538305
Haha I didn't say it was bad anon. Just silly
>>143538406
Gendo is terrified of opening open up to people and getting hurt. He acts as an adult Shinji in a way.
>>143537839
>Curious, what do you think is better than Eva?
Sailor Moon
>>143538474
But he's cold, assertive and ruthless. Shinji's the opposite of that.
It still doesn't explain why he would feel compelled to act like a huge dick towards his son. He could at least be a little less callous.
>>143538380
I'm not saying they are bad, infact I think they are entertaining solid shows. It's just that people who list those (and way worse titles like Gate), have often watched a dozen shows at best.
>>143538478
You're not wrong
>>143538446
Shinji invented himself a whole bunch of ready-made stock mechanisms of dealing with people to minimalise contact while keeping himself relatively sane, only living with Misato made him realise how much he fetishises his own psyche's status quo
he's forced by other characters to confront his father as he doesn't expect him to care - he, Shinji, would care either
>>143537191
you misunderstood both of the endings.
Is the NGE manga good? Compared to the anime I mean
>>143538074
>Eventually people get tired of watching the same shit over and over
But do they?
>so variety becomes nice
In my opinion it doesn't. In my sight, those are still two sides of the same coin. What variety implies, is difference, and what difference implies, is that one thing has unique characteristics to another. And Evangelion might've been unique at the time. But it's not 90s anymore. We've been given perspective, and I strongly believe works should be judged based on their own merit, not because they were at the right place at the right time. Simply put, variety is no excuse for bullshit.
>You coming in and screaming "but everything is relative!!" is redundant and stupid.
I agree and I apologise, but there's a little fault on your side as well! Just because I can interpret a post differently doesn't mean I have to. If you had made it as clear as it is now, in the first place, I wouldn't have replied.
>>143538597
>>143538616
I fucking hated Ritsuko for some reason.
>>143538638
she repeats her mother's mistake by loving Gendo yet at the same time she has to keep the facade of professionalism in dealing with Rei, essentially Gendo's only sentimental side
tragic for a woman I'd assume
Why is this allowed?
Yes Shinji is annoying, so what. That's part of his character. And a character can be bland, why not, it's not like he's making all the story alone. The characters could be ALL annoying, as long as you still want to watch, it's the creator's win.
And in this case, he won.
>>143538604
>But do they?
Yes, unless you have some special mental faculties you will want variety.
No matter what you say, you will not watch the same episode of any given show for the rest of your life. You wont, we both know it. Why? It is boring.
>But it's not 90s anymore.
Eva is better than most anime that comes out now. Most anime is cookie cutter in more ways than one. If it isn't the basic shonen, it's the basic shoujo, the basic moe, or the basic harem. It's Goku and his power levels, Love-Ru and it's almost fucking, Love Hina and its constant beating around the bush.
You can look at any of these genres and find gems in them, and it will be because they did something different. They either did something exceptionally well in a typical way, something not typical period, or something not typical exceptionally well.
Eva was not typical in an exceptional way. The animation, music, direction, etc. It is all up there in its skill, and also is not typical.
I do not see 30 second still shots that actually mean something, regardless of why they were made. I do not see cryptic mysticism being thrown into a show and then later revealed to make sense and have impact from episode 1. I do no see OST's that have Hole in the Dream. I do not see looming shots of Eva 01's hand in the background while Misato talks about looming danger.
It is the little with the big. You do not have to love it, but fuck man, after you have seen a couple hundred anime you find it hard not to enjoy Eva.
>>143538726
Kitty was nothing like Rei and Ideon fucking sucks.
>>143538489
Like the anon said Gendo is adult Shinji. To simply, Gendo sees himself as a shitty person and since a shitty person can't be a good father it's better (for both) that he distances himself from shinji. There is also the plus side to this since Gendo can focus on bringing the love of is life back and not have to waste his time on such meaningless things as bringing up a child.
>>143538851
Plus you can say that Gendo is only assertive because of Yui.
Shinji doesn't have a Yui yet, Gendo did, and so he acts.
notice that never once did Gendo refer to Rei as "Yui" but on occasion he does call Unit-01 "Yui"
there's spiritual-carnal duality to Yui empathised by ther forms - a giant, invaluable fucking robot and a little girl, expendable at that
Gendo projects his carnality on dr Akagi (both mother and daughter) but consequently loves the giant fucking robot
Rei is something idolised, and it's hard for Gendo to idolise anything - in the end Shinji managed to be more effective
to deny Rei agency is Anno's original thought anyway
>>143538363
>For example, when in the scene she screams about how she's an adult and doesn't want to be treated like a child it makes her attempts at fucking Kaiji reasonable.
And that's what I dislike about it, it feels like a blunt attempt to make her motivations seem deeper, but it's done in a way that feels utterly contrived to me. It's like they had to blurt out "hey, this character who we just portrayed as materialistic and childishly overbearing, well here's her tragic past that retroactively makes all that meaningful". It just feels off to me, I don't buy it.
>>143538489
Gendo perceives people in a manner similar to Shinji. The quintessential difference is that Gendo experienced a regression that leads him to abandon relationships. Gendo is distancing himself from his son as a defensive measure (hedgehog's dilemma). I'm simplifying it a bit for the sake of time but there are plenty of great write-ups online (or just take AP Psych).
>>143536501
>Why is this seen as one of the most talked about classic anime of the era?
The only people who really have this quabble are people who know nothing about the history of anime, the context in which it aired, the impact it had when it was airing, and the influence it had since.
They come at it from a retrospective angle with all the biases and naivety a 'modern' anime viewer who's been inured to or grated by an industry 'post NGE'. Their ability to then have a fair and unbiased understanding of why it's so revered/impactful is thus absent or impossible to ever achieve.
>>143538912
From her debut episode she is constantly trying to prove that she is something compared to the third child and she is constantly comparing herself to the two relevant adults present, whether it be suspicious of Misato from Kenji's comments about their past or her desire for Kenji.
Her character was there from the get go. Showing her back story later makes sense. Doing it right at the start would have been fine. Plenty of good shows tell you up front what is up from the beginning and then lets the show play itself out, others dont.
Thinking there is something dishonest going on is pushing it. Still, it's just a feeling you got so not much to say.
>>143539006
I don't really understand why people say this, first time i watched evangelion was in 2009 and imho it's good enough to stand on it's own as a masterpiece.
>>143538829
>Yes, unless you have some special mental faculties you will want variety.
Yet again, I disagree. I have seen many movies, read lots of books, and listened to tons of music; simply put, I've consumed a lot of media. And to me, at this point, variety has become redundant. Repetitive. It does sound insane, but that's how it is for me. Not to mention, there's a finite amount of things, that can be varied. Just as the amount of 'cool stuff' to watch will end, the amount of different stuff will as well.
Now, going further with this, I do find it hard TO enjoy Eva, exactly because of the supposed abnormality.
>>But it's not 90s anymore.
>Eva is better than most anime that comes out now.
Do you really think, that refuting the 'time' argument can be done, by using a different 'time' argument? Maybe I did mention a rigid timeframe by throwing in 'the 90s', however, I have stated as well, that
>I strongly believe works should be judged based on their own merit
and let's stick to that.
>>143536501
>bland, uninteresting or fucking annoying. Especially Shinj. He manages to be all 3
Just like you when you were 15. That's kind of the point.
>>143537327
>unparalleled psychological depth
Unparalleled in children's cartoons about giant robots punching the monster of the week in the face.
>>143539192
>Do you really think, that refuting the 'time' argument can be done, by using a different 'time' argument?
No I'm refuting the time argument altogether. You brought it up in the first place.
>and let's stick to that.
No one said anything different
>Yet again, I disagree.
I was specific with the type of variety I was talking about. It is not just pure variety, as in, reading more than one book the rest of your life, even if all the books have the same plot but different names for characters.
What you find as repetitive is probably what I am calling repetitive.
Eva is not repetitive. Name an anime that does the animation direction like Eva that isn't a movie.
itt bait
why isnt OP banned?
i just finished watching NGE. it was pretty cool. since its so popular and successful, why arent there more anime like it?
>>143539051
I'm just being honest about what I feel. Even knowing what there is to know about her character, I just do not find her compelling in the slightest. Everything feels fragmented, with the aim of portraying a heavily warped state of mind above all else. She is a jealous person, be even seeing her jealously and desire to be perceived to be what she thinks of as mature in this context, I don't find her personal dilemmas to be compelling.
For a large portion of the characters in Eva, I find it difficult to imagine them as fleshed out human beings with coherent mental states, and hence to empathize with them. Seeing the discussion about Gendo here affirms this in my mind. From what you see off him, I find it difficult to interpret him as anything but a ruthless sociopath who deliberately conceals his thoughts to achieve his aims. He is deliberatly an asshole to his son, I don't at all see how he could be seen simply an an adult analogue of Shinji who acts the way he does out of the fear of the potential consequences. Yet I do see people claiming this, and as far as I can tell it is all from a single scene in which such an explanation is confessed. But once again, I fail to see why you would simply trust him making such statements. Shinji is terrified that his actions might hurt others and suffers dearly from the guilt that might entail. He will also happily connect with others if he believe they are being honest with him. Gendo is horrifyingly cold and calculated in a way that is totally uncharacteristic of this, and likewise, going back and re-watching scenes with knowledge from later episodes sheds little light on the psychology of his actions.
>>143539424
Watch Gunbuster
>>143539424
Because it's too deep for the rest of us. We aren't as smart as you.
>>143539475
okay. also actually thinking of it, FLCL and gurren lagann is similar to NGE as well.
>>143539480
i'm being humble and not assuming anything
>>143539006
This makes it seem like all NGE has is historical value.
Even if watch it for the fist time in 2016 without any knowledge of the time period it aired in, the impact it had or the "classic" mecha formula NGE can easily stand on it's as one of the best works that came from anime.
>>143539424
Because creating something on the level of NGE requires a lot of talent, which very few people posses, and the right circumstances (funding, inspiration, ect) Many have tried and failed. See Rahxephon and Bokurano.
>>143539594
Code geass does the mecha formula better. Eva's aren't even robots.
>>143539594
>NGE
>having funds
>>143537420
I absolutely love Evangelion and it's one of my all-time favourite shows, but pretentious hipsters like you need to go back to their basement and hot glue their Asuka figurines instead of shitposting on /a/, because at best you're being a douchebag, and at worst you're discouraging people watching and discussing one of the most important works in anime.
>>143537553
No, he watched it expecting something good and was let down. Instead of being a dickhole about it you could try having a civil discussion. This entire elitist mindset is very off-putting for somebody who liked Eva, it must be much worse for somebody who did not but still wants to talk about it. The fact that he made this thread asking genuine questions proofs that, and the way he worded his criticisms doesn't invalidate them. I bet you also think you need a university degree to understand Shakespeare.
>>143539594
I watched it only last year in autumn and I thought it was great. Maybe I would appreciate it even more had I been into 90s anime other than DBZ and typical shonen stuff (I was a kid back then) but even without the specific context of its era, it stuck with me like no other anime did.
>>143540258
Oh my lord, a sane and reasonable Eva fan. I don't know how to react, this is some kind of miracle.
>>143539999
>Code Geass doing anything better than NGE
>>143540059
>NGE is low budget meme
Give me a link were someone on the staff says that. Please I would like to see it.
NGE had a solid budget for the time. Probably quite a bit above average. They didn't ran out of money because they spent to much of it on early episodes, the infamous last two episodes were the result of production issues a.k.a they run out of time and not money. (anno rewriting the plot being the main cause according to speculation).
>inb4 minute long still shot
Clearly artistic choice. As indicated by NGE having plenty of instances of "unnecessary" animation. Compare it to Utena and see how low budget for the time looks like.
>>143540470
NGE is shit and you can keep worshipping it but I'll stay red pilled.
>>143540770
>saying NGE is shit
>considering CG redpilled
You are literally a meme
>>143536501
If you couldn't feel it then, it can't be explained. Im geninuely sorry for you.
![[2D4U]Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_BD_09[1080p_DualAudio](03ACE1D1).mkv_snapshot_14.12_[2016.01.06_21.27.08].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/iqn5mkv.jpg "[2D4U]Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_BD_09[1080p_DualAudio](03ACE1D1).mkv_snapshot_14.12_[2016.01.06_21.27.08].jpg")
>>143538912
Except there's allusions to something tragic happening to her in the past that's linked to her current behavior (like nearly every character) and her using the EVA as a crutch to combat her self-loathing along with her tough front as early as episode 9 and 10. Asuka is a very predictable character that's meant to mirror Shinji (even literally at one point while saying "I have no choice but to pilot the Eva").
>>143537141
I like this response I also want to add a few things
1. Everybody hates Shinji because on some level we are all Shinji
2. It also plays with Christian symbolism not on a deep level but you know back in the 90's Christianity was trying to ban Dungeons and Dragons, Heavy Metal, and Harry Potter because they were "works of the devil" and here you have something that just takes a concept like the Angels and turns them into just creatures of death or the story and Adam and Eve and turns that into the condition for the extinction of the human race. Of course sort of only applies to Americans
3. Finally, everybody has different taste ya know? I don't get too hung up on genres or shit like that I just like to smoke some bud and watch the crazy shit my Japanese nakama drew up. For example, Speed Grapher is probably my favorite anime of all time but a general consensus is that it sucks.
I hate excessive moe and the current otaku culture that comes from it sure I have my reasons but other anime fans that dig it can just as equally rationalize their reasons for diggin it.
So you just might be someone who just doesn't like NGE its cool just don't be a Shinji about it.
>>143536869
>this
I characters who are fucked up in the head the most
>>143536501
Because waifus
Babbies first serious anime
>>143543088
>Do I fit in yet?
Teh Rei comes in strawberry, vanilla and chocolate flavors.
Is it bad that I really didn't mind the ending to the series while I fucking adore EoE's ending?
>>143545795
I think 25 and 26 get too much hate. They're not as good as EoE, but they're not bad at all either. The omedetou part was a decent way to finish the series.
>>143541739
I'd put it even earlier, that she values status as a pilot above actually piloting is implied in her introductory episode. She tries to show off to Shinji, demands that he save them, then kinda forgets there's an Angel and they're helpless in the water with it while Shinji stays any amount of focused by comparison.
NGE was really good, but I personally hate he attitude that it preaches, that being how the world and people are shit (yet still worth living in and interacting with).
I prefer more optimistic themes, like Tamako Market's "Humanity is good!"
NGE also had a lot of great world building, specifically with the mecha.
>>143545795
No, I think people have a highly inflated opinion of the original ending. It's not bad or anything, but I really don't feel it can hold a candle to EoE in impact, mood, consistency, or themes.
>>143546289
>comparing NGE with Tamako
Both are among my favorite, but come on.
>>143546480
>themes
It's the same shit.
>>143536625
This is how a child would act under this much pressure.
>>143546495
You can compare anything you want. This idea that two anime can be so different as to making comparison impossible is silly.
>>143546510
It's not. Although both come to the conclusion that living in the real world is for the best, the rationale for why that is the case is different in the two endings and heavily impacts how you interpret that message. The difference in tone also supports this.
>>143546495
Just the messages, anon. A very small, flat comparison.
>>143546577
>the rationale for why that is the case is different in the two endings
Which were? Seemed the same to me.
>>143537191
and then literally no one died. The end.
Well except for Ritsuko, Misato and Gendo I guess, since they got rekt before instrumentality.
>>143546637
In the TV ending, Shinji seems to genuinely come to the conclusion that he can make it in the real world and that if he gives it his all he will be happy there. In EoE, he only comes to the conclusion that he can't be happy in the tang. He has no idea if he will be happy in the real world, he only knows that it's possible there. It's a much more resigned and half-hearted conclusion. Additionally, the final scene adds a great deal of complexity to his conclusion by making it clear that resolution to do better doesn't mean that you will get better or that you won't fuck up horribly along the way.
>>143546654
Gendo didn't die before Instrumentality.
>>143546814
No, in the TV ending, it only speaks of the possibility (with constant use of "maybe") of being happy, having greater value, and so on. It's exactly the same in EoE with Yui's little nugget - "If you decide to live, anywhere can be heaven because you’re alive. There will be chances to be happy anywhere. As long as the sun, earth, and moon exist, everything will be alright." The rationale is the same. You're saying it's more resigned, but that's irrelevant to what was being asked.
>making it clear that resolution to do better doesn't mean that you will get better or that you won't fuck up horribly along the way
This is expressed in the TV series plenty of times, though.
Rei is by far the best character/girl.
>>143547118
The word maybe is used, but when watching the TV ending it seems very clear that things will turn out alright for Shinji. This isn't the case in EoE, where the darker tone and significantly more uncertain rationale make it far less clear whether Shinji is going to alright or not.
>You're saying it's more resigned, but that's irrelevant to what was being asked.
How is that irrelevant? There's a huge difference between saying
>Yeah, I guess I should do that, I don't really have any other choices
and
>Yes, I can and want to do this!
>>143547410
>it seems very clear that things will turn out alright for Shinji
Except it doesn't. He's in a world of nothing at the end with the audience having no clear idea what is even physically happening and with the state of the world unclear.
>How is that irrelevant? There's a huge difference between saying
Because the rationale, the reasoning behind the action, is the same regardless of how it's being expressed, which you said was different. It apparently isn't. Also, Shinji did have a choice and made one, a significant part is about him accepting his own agency and the responsibility for his own actions.
>>143547736
>no clear idea what is even physically happening
Misato's cross makes it obvious that Shinji had been sitting on that beach for quite a long time, which leads me to think him and Asuka don't have biological needs anymore
ITT elitist NGE cocksuckers
I can smell the cum on their breath from all the way over here.
Fixed it
Doesn't suck anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyIpijrLlcM
:^)
>>143547736
Would you not agree that the tone of EoTV is much more optimistic than the tone of EoE? Because I believe that this difference in tone vastly changes how you perceive these decisions, even if these decisions are technically the same.
>>143536501
NGE is supposed to have an incredibly good fan sequel manga. Anyone know how it's called?
>>143548800
>Because I believe that this difference in tone vastly changes how you perceive these decisions, even if these decisions are technically the same.
I don't really think so. Maybe that's the case with you and others, but like I said and you conceded to, EoE and EoTV deals with the same themes and share the same message despite how one's dressed up. EoTV presents it more optimistically, of course, but it has this understated (compared to EoE) quality of uncertainty to it that's even absent from EoE with its abandonment of the narrative and even of the physical world presented previously. It was a more interesting idea than any in EoE despite its shortcomings.
Anyone else follows nerv bridge simulator quest on /tg/?
It's nge but set in canada and with an oc cast. The qm is also a drawfag and make tons of content for it.
>>143549484
In what way does EoE abandon the narrative? How do you reason that a change in tone has no effect on how you perceive the themes? And how can you argue that EoTV has an idea (which you haven't even made clear what exact idea that is) that is more interesting than EoE while also arguing that the two have the exact same themes?
>>143549707
>EoE abandon the narrative
Never said that.
>How do you reason that a change in tone has no effect on how you perceive the themes?
I just explained how EoTV has a level of uncertainty, in my opinion, that makes me feel the same way about it as EoE. It's a personal thing, why would I have to have the same reaction to something as you did?
>which you haven't even made clear what exact idea that is
Didn't think I had to explain EoTV's abstraction and complete focus on the characters in lieu of giving conclusion to the plot of the Angels and whatnot to someone who's watched it.
>while also arguing that the two have the exact same themes?
Why would exploring the same themes and having message preclude them from showcasing different ideas? The very fact that they're visually distinct and different things happen is a testament to that.
>>143537758
right about what?
>>143548874
Re Take
Maybe? Someone said it has a better ending than EoE or something like that.
>>143550244
>Re-Take
>better ending than EoE
'no'
>>143550030
Sorry, I misread your statement slightly. But I'm not saying you need to agree with me, I'm trying to understand your opinion.
You've made yourself more clear now, and although I do see where you're coming from more clearly, I still can't quite agree. Sure, there's a layer of uncertainty with the pure abstraction, but the conclusion still seems extremely assured and happy, with a rendition of the jazzy OP swelling and the illusion dramatically washing back to reveal a congratulatory ending. Sure. there's a layer of uncertainty but I would it's overwhelmed by other elements.
>Why would exploring the same themes and having message preclude them from showcasing different ideas?
As far as I'm concerned, themes are the ideas explored in a work of fiction. The only instance where this might not be the case is if characters are referencing an idea explicitly without exploring it in any way.
![latest[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/XhBP0r4.png "latest[1].png")
I rewatch EVA every year.
Just got to this scene and cried like I always do. Everytime I watch EoE I can't sleep and just stare out the window.
>>143550555
>Knife through his heart
Pottery
>>143536625
A depressed teenager with anxiety can't handle piloting a giant robot with no former experience when the world's fate is literally in his hands?
Wow, what a whiny bitch.
>>143536546
hit the nail right on its head
>>143550774
He handled that part better than the trained pilots. The domestic shit is what got him and he was even improving at that for two thirds of the series.
the brexit was england running away from piloting the eva. Now asuka is the main character
>>143539430
Gendo was never a straight up Shinji but older.
He's a Shinji who got his waifu and relied on her to fix him alone, and when he loses her he drops everything and everyone to get her back, because his relationship was never really mutual.
He never so much loved Yui, as needed her. This is why Kaworu being killed by Shinji is so important, because Kaworu is that same unjudgemental escape that Yui was to his father, but he has to kill him with his own hands.
>>143538141
The only thought that goes through my mind after watching Eva is why something so fucking shit became the basis for a lot of modern animes.
There are barely any redeeming qualities about it.
When my kids (hehe xd as if) ask me what was the most overrated garbage to ever come out in modern history I will tell them it was not the invention of sliced bread, it was not Tesla, it was not Citizen Kane, it was not GoT or Harry Potter, it was not Death Grips, it was not Final Fantasy 7, etc. it wasn't the Mona Lisa or the Bible, it was Neon Genesis Evangelion.
It's the biggest pile of garbage I have ever watched and yet it remains so influential.
I can step back and go "heh, I can see why it's popular" with a lot of things I dislike after playing/viewing them, primarily because I go into it with such high expectations and leave disappointed, but Eva is not one of those things. I come out of it going "wow, THIS is the fucking thing that influenced a lot of stuff today? THIS pile of fucking garbage that needed many movies to retcon many of it's flaws, THIS piece of shit that had many pretentious symbolism that meant jack shit?"
It astonishes me how such a thing exists. It really does.
>>143552838
7/10, decent effort but a bit too obvious.
>>143552838
>THIS piece of shit that had many pretentious symbolism that meant jack shit?
It's BECAUSE of that pretentious symbolism that people thing it's such a great show. EVA is a completely empty shell without anything inside so people can put their own interpretations inside no matter how ludicrous. Because its symbolism mean nothing they mean anything you want and people like that kind of shit, it's not exclusive to EVA or anime or art in general.
>>143552838
>or the Bible, it was Neon Genesis Evangelion
What's the difference though?
>>143553201
It's almost like you're as pretentious as the people you're detracting.
>>143552306
>unjudgemental escape
That's still Yui. Like, more for Shinji than Gendou even. Kaoru means it in the nicest way and it's what he most wants to receive himself but is talking about death.
>>143536501
(you)
>>143553257
One produces cute girls who follow traditional, family values in an age where said values are dying and being replaced by absolute disgusting degeneracy. The other is hailed and followed by disgusting, overweight, degenerate nerds who pretentiously defend it for no good reason and come off as smug and elitist.
There's quite a big difference.
>>143536501
The more depressed you are when you watch it, the more you love it.
>>143555800
>Christfag gets triggered when someone treats his culture with the same level of respect he treats everyone else's with.
>>143556016
>implying people want to see a character they relate to at the worst part of their life
No, you don't. I watched it when I was heavily suicidal and still hated the shit out of Shinji because I hated myself and reminded me of myself, then when he had cute gal pals dangling in front of him he just pushes them away.
>yes but it heavily relates to how angst teens act when they meet a girl they like
Yeah, no.
It's a shit anime that unfortunately influenced a lot of crap so it's still remembered.
>>143556220
>implying I'm a christfag
Lmfao, not even close. But when I meet your typical degenerate, millennial girl, even as an Atheist, I'm repulsed by it and yearn for a Christian girl instead.
>>143556253
I watched the show when I was depressed and I adore the show. Don't act like your experience is absolute.
>>143556299
I used to go to a Catholic school. Christian girls are no different from the general population.
>>143556016
It's better after you've been depressed and regret what a twat you were.
>>143536927
Don't reply to a such old pasta.
