He has a lot of good qualities that outshine the questionable ones.
>>143354669
>He has a lot of good qualities that outshine the questionable ones.
Incorrect.
>>143354669
Questionable is a bit of an understatement.
>good qualities
Like being a demon whose very existence is to plague mankind?
you could question every single word in that sentence individually
>>143354669
He mostly used his qualities for selfish gains, which is not considered "good" by the plebs.
>>143354814
Confident, charismatic, brave, ambitious, skilled, learned, intelligent, able to see the larger picture.
Yet people think he's a complete monster and nothing else about him matters because he raped one woman once.
>>143355109
He isn't confident, why do you think he sperged out when guts left?
>>143354669
This guy sold out humanity to demons,is a demon and sacrificed all his comrades for power.He did everything wrong.
>>143355109
He is a child who threw a fit and knocked all of his blocks over because his favourite toy left.
>>143355770
>He isn't confident
Bullshit. It takes alot of confidence to fight in war. To face Zodd, to fuck a princess behind the kings back.
>>143358197
He was obviously sad, but he just didn't know how much he cared about guts. Plus, he thought that the king wanted Griffith to become his son in law, so by fucking the princess - he was securing his future. But the truth was the king wanted to fuck his own daughter. Griffith misread the situation.
>>143355109
>Yet people think he's a complete monster and nothing else about him matters because he raped one woman once.
One rape isn't that bad. He raped one woman to save millions of people. And people seem to forget he sold his own ass to save his army. They would have died if he didn't fuck old men for money to fund them. They owed him anyways. Plus, Griffith basically is a god now and can consol with the dead. His army is probably living like kings in Valhalla for their noble sacrifice.
>>143355109
>literately sacrifices all of his friends to hell
>'BUT MUH DREAM"
His 'good' qualities are traits that allow him to further his dream and nothing else.
>>143358541
his army is dead in burning in the vortex of hell, that's what happens to people with the brand.
also he caused the largest outbreak of troll rape ever
>>143355109
>>143358541
>raped one woman once
and killed all of his followers
and condemned them to eternal suffering
and is killing anyone that apposes him with the power he got from killing all his followers
and became a prophet for something called 'the idea of EVIL'
But no, by all means, 'he a good boi'
>>143358541
>One rape isn't that bad. He raped one woman to save millions of people.
lol
also it's been a while since i read berserk, did they specify he had to fuck casca or are you talking about that fetus thing or am i missing something?
>>143354669
>>143359070
He did the rape just to spite Guts, but it was what indirectly led to his rebirth through the Demon Child.
>this is what Griffithfags actually believe happened
>>143358541
>He raped one woman to save millions of people
and you genuinely think he was reborn to do good things to humanity? The absolute incarnation of evil, the one who was said would bring darkness to the whole world? Are you by any chance a fucking retard? I though it was commong knowledge that Griffith is definitely not the good guy he's convincing everyone to be
Griffith sympathizers are what Light sympathizers grow up to be
But in the end they're all the same: trash.
>>143358984
Might makes right, that's all there is to morality.
>>143359458
I hope you get raped anon.
>>143358541
>Plus, he thought that the king wanted Griffith to become his son in law, so by fucking the princess - he was securing his future.
What? No, that isn't how shit works. Even if the king wasn't batshit you don't just sneak into the royal palace and fuck the princess and expect to get away with no repercussions. How much the king likes you is irrelevant that shit is something you don't do, especially as a commoner.
>>143354669
>>143358864
>his army is dead in burning in the vortex of hell, that's what happens to people with the brand.
source please.
>also he caused the largest outbreak of troll rape ever
thats barely and indirectly his fault. He didn't want those poor women to get raped. He's been doing everything in his power to stop this kind of stuff, you just can't save everyone. Plus, those girls are clearly enjoying themselves.
>and killed all of his followers
they owed him their lives
>and condemned them to eternal suffering
pretty sure they became his flesh
>and is killing anyone that apposes him with the power he got from killing all his followers
just like before. He's always been a mercenary band killing people that appose him. Thats just the way the world was back then, untill griffith changed it for the better.
>and became a prophet for something called 'the idea of EVIL'
pretty sure that chapter was retconned.
This shit is no different than nuking two cities killing millions just to end a war.
>>143359070
>>143359170
>He did the rape just to spite Guts, but it was what indirectly led to his rebirth through the Demon Child.
There is no proof he raped casca to spite guts. The fact he impregnated casca is proof that he was always going to let her live and leave. The only reason guts and casca are still alive is because he chose to let them live. Without casca leaving, he wouldn't have been able to be reborn. Without guts protecting casca, he wouldn't have been able to be reborn. He never wanted them dead because he loves them both.
>>143359444
Trips confirm
>>143359458
Even when the might is unearned?
If it does matter how it's earned, then he deserves to die, if it doesn't, then why does he deserve anything? Why is his cause more noble than others, anyone against him is just doing the same, do they deserve to be on top too?
>>143359530
He was just seducing the princess, getting caught was not part of his plan
>>143359577
>>his army is dead in burning in the vortex of hell, that's what happens to people with the brand.
>source please.
Did you read the manga? It's stated at the end of the first arc when the count is given a chance to sacrifice his daughter.
>>143359379
>and you genuinely think he was reborn to do good things to humanity? The absolute incarnation of evil, the one who was said would bring darkness to the whole world? Are you by any chance a fucking retard? I though it was commong knowledge that Griffith is definitely not the good guy he's convincing everyone to be
where the fuck are ya'll getting this shit? Why are you calling him "the absolute incarnation of evil"?
The whole "idea of evil" shit was completely retconnected.
>>143359577
He didn't impregnate Casca, it's been stated that it was Guts' child, just his seed corrupted it.
Plus, sure must be some love for him to attempt to kill them both and sacrifice their soul and body to demons, eh? Sure is some loving acts.
>>143359577
>pretty sure that chapter was retconned.
This is how retarded Griffith sympathizers are, everyone.
Miura doesn't want it included in volumes because it gives too much of the story away, pretty much the opposite of it being retconned.
>>143359598
>2 digit IQ struggling with subjectivity
>>143359444
I never noticed before but there is a definite overlap in the two groups and the way they try to defend their idol.
>>143359631
shit. It's been a few fucking years nigger. Maybe show a pic please? Im busy and cant look it up. I was always under the impression his army became his body because of how his rebirth was shown.
>>143359665
Like i said nigger, he wouldn't have been able to come back without them. He never intended for them to die.
>>143359674
I'm just arguing my side, you're arguing yours, but no alright, I guess your insult dismantles my whole argument, congratulations, uu r the smartes gui
>>143359790
>He never intended for them to die.
I don't think you understand what the word sacrifice means
>>143359790
He didn't know that that would cause him to come back though. Also, he intended for every person there to die, that WAS the whole point of the ritual.
Griffith a shit
His supporters a shit
I hope Falconia burns
But not before that obnoxious medium gets personally rekt
>>143359671
>Miura doesn't want it included in volumes because it gives too much of the story away, pretty much the opposite of it being retconned.
nah, he probably just changed his mind about the whole deal. This story would be alot more shtty if there was a clear cut hero and villain. Guts is far closer to being the villain that griffith, considering he's been mindlessly murdering men, women, and children his whole life. Not until he overhead griffith after MURDERING A FUCKING CHILD did he actually think about his future.
>>143359907
>mindlessly murdering men, women, and children his whole life
huh?
>>143359735
You'r probably right. I say this because when i was a teenager and watched death note, i always felt light was better and should have won. The ending was bullshit. I guess retards like you fail to see the bigger picture.
>>143359645
it has nothing to do with the IOE. The God Hand itself is the incarnation of evil, isn't Griffith a part of them? Let me guess, 'that doesn't count' because reasons? Besides Femto was described as the bringer of darkness upon the world
>>143359907
>nah, he probably just changed his mind about the whole deal.
This is your head canon and you're fine to stick with it but don't expect anyone else to buy it when he's on record stating that the chapter is canon but gave away too much about the world.
>>143359790
You must be fuking retarded
>>143359963
If Light was better he wouldn't have lost with an anonymous killing device
if Light was smarter than L he wouldn't have let it be known that he was in Japan by falling for L's trick at the very start of the show.
>you will never browse an /a/ devoid of newfags who keep making the same threads every day and newfags who continuously respond, spoonfeeding the OPs with attention and rewarding them for their ill behavior
>>143359866
You don't know that. The series has repediatly rammed the idea that their is a behind the scenes plan going on. That the future cannot be changed and that everything is already determined. He probaby began to see the future through causality the moment he joined the godhand. Plus, how could the ritual even have completed if Guts and caska are still alive? Femto shouldn't exist if he didn't get all his intended ingredients.
Im starting to thing you people are legit stupid.
>>143359905
This
>>143360040
I mean, he's a Griffith supporter. What do you expect?
>>143359907
>Guts is far closer to being the villain that griffith
This is what Griffithfags actually believe. Kek. Stay delusional.
>Not until he overhead griffith after MURDERING A FUCKING CHILD
And for who?
Also, unless Griffith, Guts was sick and depressed after killing the child. That's probably what made him think about getting away from Griffith.
You know what Griffith did when he learned about the child's death? He smiled like a mad motherfucker. He went full Keikaku doori.
I mean, you're probably baiting but I'm not sure, there might be people retarded enough to believe Griffith did nothing wrong.
>>143359983
I know it's probably nothing, but I find the fact that he is/was known as the White Hawk and the bringer of darkness really interesting and makes me think that it might not be talking about Griffith, but actually Guts. But that's not based on any facts.
>>143354669
Like for example?
> Betrayed all comrades to become a demon and gain power to rule all things
> Stated what a friend should be like because he had no equals and felt lonely and when the guy actually tries to live to his standards and become a true friend he rapes his girlfriend (repeatedly) and marks him as a sacrifice fucking his life forever
Seriously... his only redeeming quality is that he secretly wants Guts to kill him as his best friend because he regrets it.
>>143359983
>The God Hand itself is the incarnation of evil
I just don't know enough about the godhand to really say anyting about this shit. Like, they've never even done anything. I've always been under the impression it was like a "Ultimate power ultimately irrupts" thing. Like, the godhand is evil because they've been corrupting by the power of god, not because their inherently evil. Griffith has shown no desire to harm others post revive.
>>143360006
>This is your head canon and you're fine to stick with it but don't expect anyone else to buy it when he's on record stating that the chapter is canon but gave away too much about the world.
well even if it's cannon or whatever, all the ioe said was that griffith should follow his own path. Not to be evil or destroy all humans. If anything, it shows how the concept of evil is flawed because of the flawed humans that created it. Its just shows that evil is a matter of perspective.
>>143360184
We do though, the God Hand was quite literally described as the epitome and final incarnation of Evil. They are up to some shady shit you must admit, there's really nothing to argue about, if you want to keep thinking Griffith is not the same as them by all means do but I honestly can't se a reasonble explanation as to why that would be. I guess time will tell, assuming Miura doesn't die first? If Griffith turns out not to be the bad guy this time around I'll be the first one to admit I was wrong
I will never understand how or why people try to defend Griffith.
It will be satisfying when everything comes tumbling down on him.The only question is will Griffith lose everything because the other Godhand members betray him,his own stupidity or Guts.
>>143360077
The whole point of the series though is that Guts and Casca ARE fighting against fate though...
They obviously are branded as sacrifices, that is what the ritual is. He turned into Femto before it was completed. Plus, your only arguments are 'he didn't kill EVERYONE, therefore he dindu nuffin wrong'
He's still a bad person, and has done nothing morally justifiable.
>>143360045
Never said he was all that smart though. I re watched a year ago and realized he was pretty fucking hasty and killing fake L was really fucking stupid. But that doesn't make anything he did bad. Plus, near asspulled his way to victory. Mellow was the best character though. He actually showed emotion and had a goal. Light was just bored and seemed to have no real desire.
>>143360269
Actually the Idea of Evil literally said that Griffith can destroy or save humanity.
Evil in Berserk is more complex. Most people don't understand it and misinterpret the entire manga.
>>143355109
He sold his ass to a fat guy, lke a cheap whore.
Guts, more like JUST
>>143360361
The Idea of Evil's idea of saving humanity is probably the same as destroying humanity.
I don't even get this whole debate. What's wrong with Griffith being a piece of shit? I think it only adds up to his character, you can see him as ambiguous in some regards but how you can come to state he's a good guy who literally did nothing wrong and that even now he's still pure with no bad intents whatsoever is beyond me. Apart from the fact that we really don't know what he's up to, if there's any malicious shit behind Falconia or if he's genuinely interested in saving mankind, so arguing for one or the other seems kind of pointless until we know more about it. I know it's not nice to have such a big thing left unanswered but I'm not sure we get the full picture yet.I still think he's actually setting up Falconia to be a massive ruse to humanity and that shit is going to happen real fuckin' soon.
>>143360303
By Guts of course. He'll ask Griffith "tell me y tell me y tell me wat u wan" before ending him.
Calling it now, Conrad will be the first God Hand member to die.
>>143360113
Griffith didn't send him to kill the child. He sent him to kill the adult. I don't even remember if he told griffith that he killed the kid.
>Guts was sick and depressed after killing the child.
Guts may have been hurt a little. But he didn't leave the band for being hurt. He left because he was below Griffith. He was sad when he heard Griffith saying they weren't friends (which could have been a lie to seduce the princess). Guts was just like a little girl finding out her boyfriend is just with her because she's a good fuck. Plus, if anything - this shows how much Griffith and Guts actually cared about eachother.
>I mean, you're probably baiting but I'm not sure, there might be people retarded enough to believe Griffith did nothing wrong.
I know Griffith did things wrong. Guts did shit wrong. Everone fucks up here and there. Im just saying that the good he's done and the world he's created is worth the SACRIFICE he payed. It was clearly the right choice.
>>143360361
Personally I don't view the Idea of Evil to be a bad thing.
It's evil, sure, but let's not forget that it was created by humans, for humans. For them to put their blame on, without it, all they would have would be to blame themselves or each other. In that state, I'm guessing St. Albion would be very indicative of what the world would be like without it.
I don't know why I wasted time looking this up instead of finishing Shinsekai Yori but here's the proof that Griffith doomed his friends to a shit show of an afterlife
>>143360276
Your right, the fact that slan showed up in the guts of the trolls shows that they are a little fucked. But i don't think griffith is like them. Also, Griffith seems to symbolically represent the thumb, meaning the others cannot act without him.
>>143360515
Falcoia is basically a huge trap,Griffith creates a fake utopia lures as many people possible there and then the whole place becomes a demon rape/genocide party.
>>143360515I'm guessing he'll sacrifice all of the human subjects in Falconia to try and become something greaterthat or he'll sacrifice the other members of Godhand directly to the idea of evil, assuming it still exists
>>143360577
>Im just saying that the good he's done and the world he's created is worth the SACRIFICE he payed. It was clearly the right choice.
He basically made most of the world "Live in my castle or get raped by trolls"
In the newest chapter the head wizard even further states that he's disturbing the hell out of reality by blending planes.
>>143360321
>He's still a bad person, and has done nothing morally justifiable.
False, fuckface. Just because someone does something bad, doesn't make them a bad person. And the lives he's saved, and the kingdom he's build, and the future he's creating are all worth the sacrifice. He's even put most of the apostles in their place.
>>143360668
>tfw no good end for Guts not now not ever
why does his life have to be so hard
>>143360577
>Griffith didn't send him to kill the child. He sent him to kill the adult. I don't even remember if he told griffith that he killed the kid.
Griffith was well aware the target had a kid and that there might have been consequences. If he was in Guts' place, he'd have killed the kid without any kind of remorse or second thoughts, because he was in the way of his dream.
Also, yes, Griffith hears from someone that the target and his son were killed by a burglar. He smiles like a mad man, immediately.
>Guts may have been hurt a little. But he didn't leave the band for being hurt
Debattable, I think the murder of the kid played a part in Guts not wanting to clean Griffith's mess anymore. It doesn't matter anyway because Guts won his freedom by defeating Griffith in a duel. And going out of his way to ensure Griffith would survive (when Griffith didn't care about killing him). He had the right to go.
>Im just saying that the good he's done and the world he's created is worth the SACRIFICE he payed. It was clearly the right choice.
First, he didn't sacrified to save lives. He sacrified to get power because he was mad at Guts and was okay with sending demons to horribly kill his comrade.
Second, he killed millions by merging both realities.
>>143360457
an EXPENSIVE whore
Has anyone ever played KST over the Eclipse from the anime?
>>143360748
>Just because someone does something bad, doesn't make them a bad person.
I think dooming your loyal friends and followers to an eternity of hell is worth the label of bad person, but that's just me.
>>143360824
KST?
>>143360748
You do realize his kingdom is probably a deathtrap?
Even if Griffith's intentions were good do you think his demon buddies are going to continue playing by his rules? Godhand will screw him over when they feel like and genocide/rape everyone.
>>143360514
No, it's not.
>>143360585
IoE was created to control causality or fate. Why? Because people need reasons for everything. They can't accept that their life and suffering is pointless.
It's not about blaming some unknown entity. It's about believing that there is some purpose to their suffering.
>>143360683
Don't forget how Ubik like to torture the everliving shit out of all the people we've met by playing mind tricks and showing them horrible visions of the past. Don't forget Conrad and his plague decimating thousands and thousands. I hope for your sake you're right about Griffith, because if it turns out most of the people here are right (assuming we ever get to see it) it's gonna be embarassing to say the least
>>143360550
We know shit about the Godhand besides the fact that Void was SK's Griffith equivalent, Slan is a sexy bitch, and Femto is a massive faggot.
>>143360361
That's exactly my point. You can't just be a retard and say "he did some bad stuff, that means he's evil and should die!". It's about results and what your willing to go through and sacrifice to reach those ends. I think people fail to see that sacrifice is necessary. Guts has done plenty of evil shit also, but people don't consider him evil.
>>143360813
Griffith pleases old men for money! Ohohohoho!
>>143360905
What makes you so confident that the idea of evil has humanity's best interests in mind?
>>143360748
Griffith killed thousands for his own personal sake and not to save other lives. His intent was to achieve Godhood by pactising with demons, and break his former friend as much as he could.
Just because his current war plans involve creating a comfy city doesn't negate any of that, and this "comfy city" is most likely a death trap, which'll make Griffith go from unredeemable to "must be killed as soon as possible"
>>143360881
Komm süsser Tod
>>143360905
Ah. Well, I guess my point still kinda stands, that it's a good thing to exist, just not a... Good thingjustbecauseyoureabadguy.jpg
>>143360624
>>143360668
Fuck you this isn't canon anymore, Griffith dindu nuffin
>>143360515
>What's wrong with Griffith being a piece of shit?
The argument is that he isn't a piece of shit, nigger.
>I still think he's actually setting up Falconia to be a massive ruse to humanity and that shit is going to happen real fuckin' soon.
This might happen, but all the previous evidence points towards the fact that he just wanted to become a king. Even during the ritual, all he thought about was rising to his kingdom. Maybe him and guts will have to team up against the rest of the hand. Or maybe, it doesn't matter. Maybe griffith will accept death after finally getting what he wanted.
>>143360938
Most of the evil Guts did was necessary to survive or was caused by Griffith bringing Hell to Earth.Griffith did evil things because he wanted absolute power.
>>143361000
It doesn't. Everything is explained in that chapter.
Idea of Evil doesn't exist outside of humanity. It's part of every human's soul. It doesn't have some hidden agenda.
>>143361102
yeah but I see some people getting stupidly mad and defensive when clear evicence about him being an asshole is pointed out. Which doesn't necessarily mean he's the worst guy ever, that is debatable, but to go as far as to say he's not a piece of shit after all he's done makes me truly wonder what you guys have been smoking
>guts and griffith tagteaming against the god hand
it's a retardedly stupid concept but I can't deny I'd love to see it just to witness /a/'s reaction
>>143360938
The thing is, "the end justifies the means" isn't exactly something you can apply in any context and any situation. And even if you could, Griffith doomed thousands of lives to eternal hell, not to achieve a result but only for his personal sake after he fucked himself up. For that reason he's undeniably evil, and the only reason he might be better alive than dead right now is because it might have unexpected bad consequences on the living. The only argument in his favor is literally "his cool magical powers are useful to people"
>>143360510
That ending to the mini arc with the fat demon king, the doctor, and the king's daughter was perfect. Almost everything from the earlier chapters was building up to that one particular panel.
There were always glimpses of Guts' true nature, and he was always able to hide it with that fake laugh. But seeing everything that went down between the king and his daughter was too much for him as it reminded him of all the crap the he went through. Seeing sad Guts makes me sad too.
>>143360624
>BEFORE LONG, YOU WON'T EVEN BE ABLE TO PRESERVE ANY FINAL REMNANTS OF YOUR INDIVIDUAL SELF.
>LIKE A DROP OF WATER, YOU'LL DISSOLVE, BECOMING NO MORE THAN ANOTHER SWELL IN AN OCEAN OF DARK SOULS.
can you shits even fucking read? That is not "eternal suffering and death". They simply cease to exist. There is literally no better outcome.
>>143361082
>isn't canon anymore
Proofs? It was fully drawn and published.
>>143360074
Utopi/a/ never, we're heading towards a dystopi/a/ if we keep it like this.
>>143361254
I really can't tell if Griffith defenders are trolls or just retarded.
>>143361254
>Your spirit will be whisked away by a wave of demonkind, straight to HELL
Can you even read?
>>143361254
>not eternal suffering and death
Re-read the Count's interaction with Guts. It's a river of souls in Hell.
griffith is a selfish asshole. More news at eleven
>>143361282
anon I think he was being ironic.
>>143361246
>and he was always able to hide it with that fake laugh
The laugh was genuine though. Probably the most genuine he had since a long time. The Count was one of the first Apostles he killed, right?
>>143355109
If those qualities turn him into a monster, he's a good monster
>>143361254
>being forced to become one with the vortex of hell is the best outcome
ok satanplus, they don't cease to exist, they just exist in an infinitely large group, they are infinitely small in comparism, not in actuality[/spoiler
>>143360803
>because he was in the way of his dream.
is it so wrong to do anything to achieve your goals? He's proven he has the ability to go farther than anyone else to get what he desires. This is what makes him better than others.
>he killed millions by merging both realities.
It's been established that their is an afterlife, and he even brings them back for a farewell. The reality he created is far better than the one of the past. Humanity is united and more productive than ever.
>>143361378
No. It's an ocean of feelings. Individual egos don't exist there.
>>143361409
Nothing wrong with being smart. Sending your thousands of comrades to hell, on the other hand...
I remember a guy from a Berserk thread thinking the part we saw with the count and his daughter was not after the golden age arc and kept thinking the shit the manga is getting through was ultimately leading to that particular arc. These discussions never fail to amaze me
>>143360847
Some nig just posted that hell isn't even bad, its just ceasing to exist. Therefore, your point is invalid.
>>143360894
Maybe, but his intentions are what matters. The other godhand don't exist anyways.
>>143361472
His dream was to control a country, nd I actually wanna know your opinion (everyone's actually) What is he gonna do once he achieves his dream? is he gonna keep going till he conquers the world? What does he do after that?
>>143361472
I know I have no proof so I may sound a bit like a dickhead, but I genuinely can't wait for the moment in which Griffith is revealed to be actually evil and Falconia turns into a genocide of epic proportions. Then I'll look back at these threads and laugh my ass off.After what I've just said If the contrary happens I'm willing to bury myself alive.
>>143361385
The Godhand practically convinced him to do it. He wavered about the decision the whole time because he still had feelings for his comrades. And when Guts reaches the palm altar he locks eyes with Griffith and Griffith remembers what happened, and he decides to kill them all to achieve his dream.
>>143361506
Except he's wrong.
>>143361581
actually that particular panel comes exactly after he realizes it himself. Still, of course the God Hand moved him to do so, they don't have the great rusemaster with them for nothing.
>>143361506
>Some nig just posted that hell isn't even bad,
Goddamn I don't even know why I wasted my time finding these pages because I knew you'd be just ridiculous enough to spin this so you can keep pretending Griffith is a nice guy, holy shit.
At least reading through that fight again was fun.
>>143360917
>because if it turns out most of the people here are right (assuming we ever get to see it) it's gonna be embarassing to say the least
It's probably going to go that rout. I don't care about being embarrassed or anything. Im just supporting what i believe the truth is.
>>143361012
>His intent was to achieve Godhood by pactising with demons, and break his former friend as much as he could.
noh. His intention was to rule a kingdom. This was shown in his mind during his transformation. He just took the necessary steps towards achieving it.
>>143361472
>is it so wrong to do anything to achieve your goals?
Short answer : Yes.
Anyway, you were blaming the murder of the kid on Guts, and what I'm saying is that Griffith has a bigger part of responsability in that.
>It's been established that their is an afterlife, and he even brings them back for a farewell
Wait, so because there's an afterlife (I don't remember when it's stated, outside of hell) and dead people can say goodbye, it's okay to kill millions? Are you literally retarded?
>The reality he created is far better than the one of the past. Humanity is united and more productive than ever.
A few thousands of people are living in what seems to be an utopia today, but will probably explode because it's full of bloodthirsty monsters.
During that time, millions of people are getting killed all over the world.
Do the math.
>>143361575
It's possible that this will happen because Miura clearly doesn't care about Berserk now. But Griffith/Femto from Millennium Falcon would never do this.
Today I learned Griffith fags trigger me like nothing else. I've grown too attached to a series that won't ever finish, this sucks.
>>143361581
It's established that he's shown that he always had the capacity to do it.
>>143361652
>sacrificing hundreds of your comrades was necessary steps
he would have achieved his dream anyway if he wasn't a little bitch about Guts all the time. It's his own fault that he keeps fucking up.
>>143361472
>is it so wrong to do anything to achieve your goals?
Yes. Especially when your goals are self serving.
>there is an afterlife and Griffith sends them to it
>humanity is unified
There's no proof, but I believe this is an illusion. Not only that, but if you plunge the globe into chaos in order to be their savior, you're a fascist.
>>143361643
what the fuck was up with that imagery
>>143361652
>noh. His intention was to rule a kingdom. This was shown in his mind during his transformation. He just took the necessary steps towards achieving it.
Yes. Ruling a kingdom, for himself. Not saving people from harpies and dragons he himself introduced in the world, or even saving people from politically motivated wars. Ruling a kingdom, and for that he needed to achieve power and in the same process he used that power to try and break two of his former friends.
That's malicious, vicious and simply evil, no matter how you put it.
>>143361238
>yeah but I see some people getting stupidly mad and defensive when clear evicence about him being an asshole is pointed out.
The problem is i don't see any evidence in which he's been an asshole. All of his actions are justified by what he's created.
>>143361244
>Griffith doomed thousands of lives to eternal hell
which has been established to not be a bad thing. Hell isn't even eternal suffering, they just cease to exist. He ended their lives, which is bad. But im sure if you niggers got the whole "eternal suffering" bullshit out of your head, you'd realize their deaths aren't even bad. They arn't suffering.
>>143361672
and you know that how? I'm still here trying to argue that we don't know enough about Griffith's current actual self to make theories about how good his intents are, assuming Falconia is a giant trap is justified and not unbelievable but it's not like it can be proven either for the time being. I still don't see how him being one of the five beings considered as the epitome of evil can't be taken as a fact to back up the claims he's not that much of a good fellow, but apparently everything's debatable as long as it helps your theories
>>143361643
I always loved this panel. It's like those "Eye Spy" books.
>>143361722
Yea he had the capacity but the choice was ultimately up to him, even if his choice was woven in the streams of causality of the IoE. Certainly SK's Behelit Sword can cut through those streams but when will he use that is another question.
>>143361399
anon, look at his eyes, that's the face of a man who's laughing to stop himself from weeping
All that Griffith did to 'help' the world was try and fix problems that HE caused.
>Oh, shit, I know I shot you in the foot, but I'm a doctor, so let me help you.
>Okay, now give me a reward for helping :^)
>>143361815
Because it's in the manga. You know, Egg Apostle wanted the Perfect World and Griffith/Femto was called by the narrator the desired one.
>>143361799
>which has been established to not be a bad thing. Hell isn't even eternal suffering, they just cease to exist. He ended their lives, which is bad. But im sure if you niggers got the whole "eternal suffering" bullshit out of your head, you'd realize their deaths aren't even bad. They arn't suffering.
But no you fucking retard. You're arbitrarily saying that being absorbed in an ocean of souls is okay when we don't have any real element to compare or determine how good it is.
Let's use something objective. Like what the God Hand say. Pic related. Hell is shit. It's meant to torture the Apostles and the sacrified.
>>143361751
Ubik is the absolute madman. He's probably related to sheer insanity and madness.
>>143361969
he also gets called bringer of darkness and god hand which by reflection makes him one of the five incarnations of evil. It's in the manga, so I assume you have nothing against it
>>143361969
Huh, I didn't actually think about it before, but what's happening at this point is more the Egg Apostle's dream than Griffith's.
>>143361347
What the fuck even is hell? We havn't been shown anyone actually suffering. The entire "Griffith is and evil pos" rest soley on two things, that people don't like how he gets shit done, and that they believe people go through eternal suffering because of him. It's probably not even that bad. And you can quote me hear as one of the biggest Griffith fags in existence. If i am given undeniable proof that people are suffering eternal torment because of Griffith, then i renounce him and recognize him as a piece of shit.
>>143361839
Why would he cry? He managed to achieve a superhuman feat. He rised to the challenge, and destroyed his enemy, against all odds. He got what he came for.
>>143361799
stop posting your retarded and fallacious interpretation of the vortex of souls. They don't vanish, they become one with suffering itself. It's like an extra extra shitty version of instrumentality from EoE
>>143361799
>they just cease to exist
That's your headcanon that is stated to be false, but yah sure whatever, as long as it furthers your point, amiright?
>>143362018
Darkness is a very vague term.
>>143362119
It is, we don't know what it entails yet.
>>143362040
It's both.
>>143362050
you know no one has to forcefully take you out of your own stupidity right? You're going as far as to claim that being in an eternal stream of suffering is not bad, you're denying hell is bad, you're denying what they're saying in the manga about the ones belonging to the apostles not being able to rest in the afterlife (see >>143362007), I don't think there's any convincing you to be honest. I just hope Miura gets to finish the manga so we can settle this once and for all
>>143362050
See >>143362007
Or pic related.
The whole Count dilemma relies on the fact that Hell is shit. When Puck is worried that even Guts is going to go to that hell, it's because he thinks this is shit. When the Hell souls are all drawn miserable, evil-looking and frightening, that's to imply Hell is shit. Hell, even calling it "Hell" implies it's shit.
Please, don't try to justify what can't be.
>>143362119
as the vision about fhe hawk of LIGHT is considered a beacon of hope I can only assume we can at least think up of one things or two about the meaning of Darkness in that particular context, but whatever floats your boatbesides, was it ever said that the vision about the hawk was sent by femto / the god hand or what? I don't recall it being explicitly statet but I always though it to be the case
>>143362208
Honestly, those are early chapters. And we actually saw Hell. Flora also said that it's impossible to preserve your ego there. Hell or Heaven are probably the same place. Maybe Heaven is just made from good souls/feelings. The deepest layer of Berserk spiritual world is the Ideal World. All souls go there.
>>143362336I apologize for my poor effort at not making spelling mistakes, it's kind of late here.
have a ganishka to make up for it
>>143362336
Darkness may mean anything outside of the Hawk of Light's influence.
>>143361562
I don't fucking know. The author clearly doesn't either. I mean, what do you do when you finally get what you want? I'de think you'd want to die. Or find something else to live for.
>>143361575
If griffith turns out to be evil, Griffith fags will just hate the Arthur and call the story shit, like Light with death note. And im just hoping that Griffith turns out to be good because i like his character. He's pretty much my favorite character in any form of media because i've never seen any fictional character that i've connected to more than him. And i got to be honest, sometimes i think i might be an asshole deep inside because the shit i think, but i know it doesn't really matter because everything thinks im nice anyways. And the truth doesn't matter to people, only what they think.
>>143361644
Like i said earlier, if it turns out Hell is some form of eternal suffering, i will admit im wrong. I don't think anyone should experience anything like that. But as far as i can tell, it's not that bad.
>>143361669
>Anyway, you were blaming the murder of the kid on Guts, and what I'm saying is that Griffith has a bigger part of responsability in that.
Yea, i purposly left that out because i wanted to see what you'd say. Plus i have shit load of post i responding to and didn't feel like covering my ass for that post.
>Wait, so because there's an afterlife (I don't remember when it's stated, outside of hell) and dead people can say goodbye, it's okay to kill millions? Are you literally retarded?
Imagine if their was absolute undiniable proof that life after death existed. The entire world would be completely different. It would be better.
>During that time, millions of people are getting killed all over the world.
Im not even sure how many people exist in this universe. Plus, what weve seen in guts story is that people are still getting by, just like before. The amount of suffering didn't change, just the type.
>>143354669
>He had a lot of good qualities that outshine the questionable ones.
FTFY
>>143362439
you've been given proof and yet you decide to discard it because 'they're early chapters'. I genuinely don't know what to tell you at this point nigger.
>>143355109
Caskaposting thread?
sasuga griffith fag, I can't remember the last time I've been legitimately trolled
>>143361743
>Yes. Especially when your goals are self serving.
Well i guess were just going to have to agree to disagree here.
>There's no proof, but I believe this is an illusion. Not only that, but if you plunge the globe into chaos in order to be their savior, you're a fascist.
No proof he plunged it into chaos on purpose. And the place was already chaotic. Far before Griffith merged the planes, children like guts were being raped and killed. Nothings really changed, other than the fact the humans aren't the evil anymore.
>>143361766
Like i said above, people have always been being raped and killed and have suffered. He just changed the form of suffering (no proof it was on purpose). You can't save everyone.
>>143362481
>He's pretty much my favorite character in any form of media because i've never seen any fictional character that i've connected to more than him. And i got to be honest, sometimes i think i might be an asshole deep inside because the shit i think, but i know it doesn't really matter because everything thinks im nice anyways. And the truth doesn't matter to people, only what they think.
Holy shit, now that's how an actual sociopath would behave. Instead of questionning why you think like an asshole deep inside and trying to avoid being one, you just brush it off because you can fool people into thinking you're a nice guy.
>Plus i have shit load of post i responding to and didn't feel like covering my ass for that post
Well, you're defending Griffith. D'uh.
>Imagine if their was absolute undiniable proof that life after death existed. The entire world would be completely different. It would be better.
Debattable, people would act more recklessly too and shit would get unpredictable.
Were the Berserk threads always this consistent and I just never saw them cause I hadn't read it?
Are Berserk threads faeries?
>>143362540
I'm a different guy. Both Flora and Griffith said the same thing. All souls go there and their individual egos disappear. That's it.
>>143362481
>Imagine if their was absolute undiniable proof that life after death existed. The entire world would be completely different. It would be better.
people would find justify in murder because 'there's the after life after all', most people would stop being careful and stop giving a shit about what happens to them and the others because 'well there's the after life who cares'. I don't know if you grasp the implications of a sure knowledge about the existence of afterlife
>>143362651
>Nothings really changed, other than the fact the humans aren't the evil anymore.
Humans also don't rape woman all around the world until their babies pop out of their bellies, killing them. I think the victim number got a lot higher with the fantasy creatures introduced.
>>143354669
Lets see he goes from
>Smug redeemable asshole
>To smug questionable asshole
>To smug demon that wants to kill every living thing on the planet because of muh power
Yeah no...
>>143362770
It's hard to tell. Berserk world was extremely brutal and violent. It was the reason why they wanted a messiah.
>>143362837
now it's still brutal and violent, difference being there are not only humans doing evil shit but also magical creatures. To make up for that, there's only one save haven in the entire earth while the rest of the world is ravaged by stuff like the sea god. Let that sink in for a moment. Not trying to argue the plan is completely retarded if with good intent, but you can't deny it does have its problems.
>>143362713
It relatively recently came back from a hiatus
>>143362007
>>143362093
Alright, your righ. I admit it. I forgot all about this shit. I admit that Femto is a piece of shit. Using that page as evidence, I can fully conclude that Femto is an asshole. I really hope he finds some way to redeem himself or some future chapters prove me right :(
>>143362208
happy faglord?
>>143362837
>Griffith and Co. cause magic shit to come back to reality
>people die because of it
>lol here's my safe city
>everyone gathers
It's going to be a slaughter
>>143362833
>To smug demon that wants to kill every living thing on the planet because of muh power
But he doesn't?
He just wants his kingdom, and he's protecting and bringing together man and demon to do it.
Now, when the pope puts that crown on his head, THEN shit will hit the fan and he'll either be on the side trying to stop it or he'll start trying to kill every thing with the Godhand.
>>143362713
Congrats, you're finally able to seethere are lots of new berserk related things coming out, they've been popping up more
>>143362922yes
>>143362655
>Holy shit, now that's how an actual sociopath would behave. Instead of questionning why you think like an asshole deep inside and trying to avoid being one, you just brush it off because you can fool people into thinking you're a nice guy.
I know why i think the way i do. I just don't see whats wrong with it. If people enjoy themselves around me, and i enjoy myself, why does it even matter? Pro tip, it doesn't.
>Well, you're defending Griffith. D'uh.
Not anyomore. Some nigger posted a page about how "hell" is actually, possible, a shitty place to go. So until some future information illuminates the afterlife farther, i will just have to assume he's "evil" or whatever.
>Debattable, people would act more recklessly too and shit would get unpredictable.
I think it would probably be crazy at first, but stabalize. Just think about how different the world is now becouse of science. The fall of Christianity is probably the cause of the female sexual revolution the the west.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/SW3Eunq.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
Actually, y'know, now that I think of it, Griffith really did do nothing.
I mean, aside from the "sacrifice my friends" thing, which was relatively minor all things considered.
Everyone goes on about Griffith damning the world to hell/causing that world cry thing.
But he really didn't. It was caused by the "twice reborn emperor and the sword that cuts even deeper"
That made the whole giant explosion thing happen, Griffith just made use of it. to establish a safe haven from the hell it wrought.
>>143362922
>implying Berserk will ever end
Anyway, I don't see why you focus so much on the hell part. Griffith probably didn't know exactly how it worked before the sacrifice. What matters is the sacrifice itself and especially how he took pride for it right after that. I mean, if right after the sacrifice he said he fucked up because he had a moment of weakness, tried to apologize and used his new powers to try and make up for it, it wouldn't be so bad. He didn't do that.
>>143358541
His army is deader than dead, chomped to bit by demons.
>>143363136
But being a godhand, he PROBABLY knew what would happen. They seem to have some form of foresight.
>>143363136
making a point about Griffith and his personality really cannot rule out the whole 'sacrificing your friends' thing as something minor. Besides, it was the thing that allowed him to become a God Hand in the first place, hardly minor as far as the story itself goes.
About Ganishka, it's undeniable the tree faggot had its share of blame, but Femto definitely used that to his own advantage. He can see the future after all to a certain extent, knowing about SK being there and such. To what end he manipulated Skull Knight and created Falconia we don't know, he may be genuinely trying to rule a peaceful kingdom or not. Only time can tell
>>143363136
Griffith caused that by going there, predicting the attack and avoiding it. If he didn't go there or took the shot, this wouldn't have happened.
Wait, actually, new monsters entered the world a lot before that. After Conviction actually.
>>143363179
>Anyway, I don't see why you focus so much on the hell part. Griffith probably didn't know exactly how it worked before the sacrifice. What matters is the sacrifice itself and especially how he took pride for it right after that. I mean, if right after the sacrifice he said he fucked up because he had a moment of weakness, tried to apologize and used his new powers to try and make up for it, it wouldn't be so bad. He didn't do that.
I focus on the hell part becouse thats the only thing i think is wrong. Everything else can be forgiven because everything else is only temporary (and because i like what he's created). But eternal suffering is where i cross the line. Death is basically a promise that all of your problems will end one day, so saying that they have to experience the worst possible reality for eternity, thats just to far.
>>143363339
I think making people suffer deliberately, without any right and for no other reason than sick personal enjoyment tells a lot more about one's personality than the modalities that describe how these people will suffer.
>>143363215
>>143363258
>>143363284
Yeah, but causality and all that shit.
What was Griffith's alternative?
Shiva was fucking walking the Earth.
>>143363484
If we are to follow what we know about God Hand and fate it's not unreasonable to think Ganishka may have been somehow 'set up' by causality itself. I have no proof, mind you, it's just an afterthought on what happened. If Femto and the GH didn't have a hand in it there was no alternative, but I'm sure that with his own powers he could've rekt Ganishka without making the world transformation happen. I still think him being able to predict Skull Knight's attack as well as admitting he knew he would be there basically confirms they played a major role in those events unfolding.
>>143363443
But, Griffith didn't SEEM to kill people to make them suffer, but they suffered as a side effect of being in-between him and his goals. And his particular goal (in my opinion) is justified, or was atleast - when i was still thinking that hell wasn't actually eternal suffering. Like i said before. Temporary suffering isn't even that big of a deal. I remember how much i mentally freaked out and how I felt after seeing Griffith for the first time after being tortured for a year. So i guess i understand where your coming from.
>>143363179
It's really sad that I'm pretty sure that I will never see a conclusion to the series, or if I do, it won't be by the original writer.
a griffith apologist that can ultimately be reasoned with and admits to being somehow wrong? is the world going fucking insane? these are not the berserk threads I've come to know.
>>143363589
>>143363484
This dudes right. Without the godhand, there is no skullknight, and no apostles, and no Ganishka (im pretty sure he was an Apostle). So, the godhand either purposely or indirectly caused it.
>>143363648
same goes for ASOIAF my man. I'm also on HXH's ride too. There's no ending this torture.
>>143360793
That's what makes Guts so great. Despite the shit he lived though he fights to have a meaning and happiness someday. And despite what is told of fate or his destiny, he doesn't take it.
He doesn't accept what his life is or how shitty is, he constantly fights against it even if the whole world molds it to a tragedy. He is determined reshape for himself
>>143363750
I feel almost sorry for him considering they still have a bejelit and that HAS to amount to something, but then again I'm getting somehow tired of this happy group bullshit
>>143363670
Thats because unlike the rest of you retards, i actually seek to improve myself and care more about being right, than being right. The entire purpose of arguing is to use everything you know to defend your beliefs. I actually like being proven wrong because it shows me there are other ways at looking at things, but most people i know in real life can't seem to argue logically and just spew shit and get mad.
>>143363606
I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to rule an empire too. And sometimes you'd have to kill and do dirty shit for the bigger picture, sure. The problem being that Griffith doesn't care about the bigger picture, like, he's not calculating whether or not his choices will have a good impact or not. And what makes me think that is because he doesn't respect life at all, if he did then the least he could've done was apologize for the Eclipse, not raping and breaking Casca in front of Guts, making him a cripple too. It's just bad intent.
The hell and eternal suffering part? It's really bad but I don't think it was part of Griffith's knowledge or intent at that moment.
>>143363726
I know your pain. I picked up HxH after hearing good shit about it, because beserk left a hole that needed to be filled. I am probably going to pick up the books of ASOIAF after the show ends also because i love the lore.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/kdaffc0.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
Okay, I think I went too fast or missed something.
So
>long ago (apparently 1080 years according to the wiki)
>World was shit
>Gaysir just SUDDENLY came up and united all the kingdoms with no explanation
>World was better, though Gaysir was a real tough dick
>Priest who was horribly tortured called down the Godhand (whom they confused as 4 OR 5 angels, with them not being sure how many it was then)
>Gaysir's kingdom is fucked and sacrificed, yet Gaysir survived
>Gaysir becomes Skully, going on his quest to fuck the Godhand back, specifically Void
>1080 years later
>World was shit
>Griffith just SUDDENLY came up and is uniting what's left of the kingdoms
So, was Gaysir an apostle or like a member of the Godhand that then got turned on?
Or was it the priest that became a member of the Godhand?
Why were there only 4 Godhand when Griffith was made one, when the eclipse happens every 216 years.
>>143363900
>you retards
what does that have to do with me?
>>143363948
>Gaysir
Don't talk about Skull Knight like that.
>>143354669
I really don't see what Griffith did wrong
All he did was give all his friends awesome tattoos and teach Casca a new position
>>143363943
don't. They're definitely better than the show but you don't want to endure this suffering we've been going through. Seeing the tv series going past the books with the story was a devastating blow. It only gets worse from here.
>>143363925
I think Griffith was well aware about the bigger picture. I think becoming a godhand changed him alot. He doesn't seem to feel at all anymore. Plus, you have to remember he was just tortured, castrated, his ligaments were cut, his toung was removed, and his helmate was permanently grafted to his head. I don't think ide care about people either after that shit. he was legit insane for a while and just wanted to live a regular life with casca before the godhand manipulated him by showing him what he used to want.
>>143358864
>also he caused the largest outbreak of troll rape ever
what do you mean by this
I never let 4chan users out of their mothers basement
>>143363948
It seems that Gaysir was just normal, and might have survived that eclipse because of the Beserk armor. I think that Void was proabably the Priest. I wouldn't be suprised if the entire godhand has stories just like this.
>>143364075
>He doesn't seem to feel at all anymore
Mostly. IIRC he still has lingering feelings for someone, I don't really remember though.
>Plus, you have to remember he was just tortured, castrated, his ligaments were cut, his toung was removed, and his helmate was permanently grafted to his head. I don't think ide care about people either after that shit.
Not caring about people is one thing, going out of your way to zip out your dick and calling your demon buddies just to break them even harder is another.
>>143363925
He doesn't care about the cost in the face of his ambition.
He's not malicious or evil. just like with the old dude he fucked for cash then later met on the battlefield: he is indifferent and just sees them as pieces on his path to the kingdom.
Now he's got it all but the crown, and his decisions as a ruler thus far have been nothing but for the greater good.
>bring man & spirit/demon together peacefully
>while doing so without stifling their desires (Pan-Daemonium)
>Promoting rapid technological expansion
>letting the departed see their loved ones one last time
>Complimenting his waifu's cooking
>etc.
>>143364120
FUCK YOU GRIFFITH
>>143364210
Well i'de argue that some form of change occured (possible because of info gained from forsight) in his mind when he became a godhand that changed him into something else. I'de almost be tempted on saying that you couldn't really consider Griffith and Femto the same person (sorta like the original total recall with Arnold), but I think that there isn't enough info present to come to a real conclusion.
>>143354669
Look at the bright side, he will get murdered by guts.... I just hope slowly and painfully as possible, that will get my "unfair" amount of hate.
>>143354669
Many terrible people have good traits. That doesn't mean they don't deserve hate. It's not like he's without fans so stop being such a whiny bitch.
Griffith is just a little bitch who couldn't cope with guts trying to get his own life sorted, even worst when he lost to guts, and then casca falling in love with guts. That is why he is the biggest crybaby in all the anime, even above shinji.
>>143364201
I mean, yeah, Guts' mark doesn't freak out around him right?
So was Gaysir just pre-eclipse Griffith that succeeded then?
Also, the story said that the priest sent down 4-5 angels to destroy the kingdom, meaning Void and them had to already exist by then.
If it didn't say that, I could have bought that: with the "1000 years ago" being more like 864 years ago, and the Priest becoming Void, the first Godhand.
Then it'd make sense, as the eclipse happens every 216 years, a new godhand was made, with Griffith being the fifth.
But that's not how they say it went down, so the 4-5 angel discrepancy and the lack of a 5th Godhand on Griffith's birth is just super confusing.
>>143363948
Because SkullKnight managed to kill them all except void.
>>143364201
It would make sense. Void has his eyes sewn shut and his mouth peeled back. Femto has the same torture helmet Griffith wore.
>>143364531
So maybe the kingdom was destroyed just after the eclipse. Plus, i don't think you'd consider what Gaysir has done as succeeding. I guess we just have to wait and see what comes out.
What about the city before Gaiseric's?
Speaking of berserk how do you guys like my casca post golden age arc fanart
>>143361751
>>143362018
Bosch was Miura before Miura
>>143364963
DELET THIS
>>143364963
Hang this
>>143363136
The level of stupidity needed to make that post is enormously huge. In other words you are a fucking retard if you believe that.
>>143361254
>becoming no more than another swell in an ocean of Dark Souls
walked out of the theater at that point
>>143365842
Lel
People still don't realize that people only defend Griffith ironically?
>>143365842
>At last I, Guts, have become Berserk
DROPPED
>>143367265
ye we do but its fun to argue.
>>143364766
Maybe we got some kind of Matrix situation here with the whole causality thing.
A repeating cycle of golden and dark ages, where a man always rises up to end the fighting, but then becomes a victim of the Godhand as they return to cause the woe of Earth.
When I think of it, Mary Magdalene (luca) saw Skully as Death.
This implies they have this image of the skeletal reaper.
Mayhaps it even came from Skully himself.
And in some centuries from the end of this manga, people will be rallied behind a new man, and have this legendary image of death: a black knight that moves like a beast and carries a slab of iron.
>>143364120
I want tocuddleSlan
>>143359740
You're busy enough to post on this board? Retard he just told you the specific part in the manga. Stop being lazy
