Was Madoka really a deconstruction of the magical girl genre?
>>143203787
lol, no
>>143203787
It was just well executed edginess
Homura literally did nothing wrong
Madoka did everything wrong
>>143203787
Using /a/'s meme definition, no.
Using the correct definition,no_.
>>143203787
>>143203980
>Homura and Madoka
I was still here when they were still called Small Lady and Mistress 9
It can be interpreted that way.
>>143203787
No, Kyubey was a deconstruction of the magical pet but that was done before in similar way in Bokurano's anime.
>dark = deconstruction
When will this meme end?
>>143203787
Yes. It takes well known parts of the magic girl genre like the power of love, the magical pet, yuri, the team of magical girls, etc and presents them in contrary manner. That fits a deconstruction.
>>143204059
>>143204174
>/a/ can't even look up the definition of one word
Bravo.
An example of magical girl deconstruction would be the magical girl having to physically change out of her clothes and into her new outfit.
Alright I only saw the first season and not the third movie yet, but how the fuck did Homura do anything wrong?
She had three options:
Let things go the way that kike rat Kyubey wanted to, they all die, the shit with the witches keeps going presumably forever
Let Madoka become that super witch, humanity is wiped out, Kyubey is happy.
Do what she did, re-try until it worked (and it did work).
I mean you could argue perhaps that she could have done a few hundred more loops so Madoka would have been so powerful she could just have said "no more witches in any timeline, I get to stay as I am, all my friends come back" but she didn't know that. How was this not the best path to take?
>>143203787
Madoka was a deconstruction of the magical girls are literally cum genre.
>>143204401
Go watch the movie
>>143204401
Watch Rebellion fampai
>>143204401
The series was perfect. Don't watch Rebellion. Ruins everything. It's like the second season of Eureka 7 or the third of Milky Holmes to give an example.
>MadoKAMI
>Homura AKU(e)MA(i)
Pottery.
It used all the tropes of the genre but took them to their logical "realistic" conclusion, you could say that it is a deconstruction and you would not be completely wrong but not completely right either
>>143204454
>>143204470
>>143204513
She didn't do anything wrong in Rebellion either.
>Making a dark and edgy take on one of the most innocent anime genres.
What a thought-provoking and mature deconstruction.
>>143203787
What do you think?
>>143203787
No. Urobuchi himself stated it wasn't. Reellion is a deonstruction of the series, so you might be able to say that was.
>>143204045
This.
>>143203787
Probably the best anime deconstruction since Evangelion until One Punch Man came along.
>>143206963
>OPM
>deconstruction
OPM is a parody,not a deconstruction. Urobutcher said it himself that Madoka wasn't one either.
It was a reconstruction, partially because of >>143204409
>deconstruction
> main characters are literally just Chibiusa and Hotaru lite
>Urobuchi finishes the script for Madoa
>Bored and decides to watch an episode of Pre-Cure
>Put head in hands and begins tearing up because he realizes he's a terrible person
Breaking Cliche != Deconstruction
Oh when will they ever learn
>>143208437
I blame the TVtropes people who mistakenly think that the site is somehow an authority on literature and other forms of narrative devices or technique, as opposed to its original purpose of just being a site that simply categorised works in terms of common patterns and nothing more.
>>143204291
Pot calling the kettle black. A deconstruction is a word used in analysing literature, more specifically the school of Derrida. Please do more research before you make statements like that again.
Same goes to those you replied to by the way.
>Q: Did you two meet before the project?
>Urobuchi: Never. However, I really love "Sananara", I'm still reading it!
>Aoki: That's such nostalgic work! Thank you!
Why does everyone misuse deconstruction?
>>143209819
because people love to sound like pseuds
>>143203787
Yes.
Why didn't Homura throw explosives inside Walpurgisnachts head?
>>143209819
>>143208530
Before that site got popular, practically nobody used that term when talking about fiction outside of academic circles.
REMOVE WIDE
>>143204454
>>143204470
>without Homura: everybody dead, Kyubeys will eventually find a way to fuck with the Law of cycles
>with Homura: everybody alive, happy, they all can live with their families, Kyubeys get what was coming to them (not like they can feel emotions anyway, so it's not cruelty)
What did Homura do exactly wrong?
>>143210491
Nothing. The next movie will be about saving her from herself.
no. it was just an overrated lesbian girls getting killed fest.
>Aoki: The image that I have on Shaft is the "student who isn't an honor-student, but very famous". Including Shinbo, all staff in Shaft aren't really a genius but still have an image of having some kind of genius-like talents, and also have some sense, so even though they didn't change a lot in "Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica", they are showing their image more distinctively than they did before.
>>143210319
Maybe there's a reason why Homu doesn't try timestop and put bombs in the critical spots like she did against Charlotte.
Like an aerosol type of halo connected to Walpurgisnacht so if Homu approaches and touches that halo then it cancels timestop effect.
It was then so was Nanoha
>>143212350
Grenade launchers might help.
>magical girl uses stolen handguns and explosives to fight evil
How is it not deconstruction?
It's a deconstruction of magical girls, yes. It's not a deconstruction of the whole genre, more a subversion, but it definitely deconstructs some aspects such as how magical girls are expected to behave and act.
>>143203802
>>143204016
/thread
>>143203787
>deconstruction
>>143210319
The point was Walprugis was relatively unaffected by conventional weaponry. The point of witch barriers were to protect the witch inside as they were relatively frail and were easily killed by explosives. Walprugis was a witch so powerful that it didn't need the protection of a witch barrier as only powerful magic could harm it, which is why Madoka was able to go from timeline one where it was questionable if her and Mami combined were able to kill it to being able to eventually one shot it before turning into Gretchen.
If you're asking yourself why didn't Homura do something different against Walprugis, you're missing the point as Homura was never going to be able to beat Walprugis no matter what she did and it was meant to act as a constant, unavoidable obstacle that would always cause her to have to try again for all eternity until an outside force stepped in to break the cycle.
>>143215790
>>143208814
So what exactly prevents a visual medium, which also relies on scripting, from being able to explore the same concepts as literature, exactly? You can argue the term is specific to written mediums, but words are repurposed and evolve all the time, so what exactly in the definition makes it exclusively for written works that can't be applied to works that aren't consumed through text only but still rely on written word?
>>143208437
It didn't even break cliche.
The only people that think it did never watch magical girl shows.
>people talking about "cliche breaking" in magical girl
>no one mentions Daimahoutouge
Lyrical Tokarev Kill them all
>>143216338
And how many mahou shoujo have you seen?
>>143216333
>from being able to explore the same concepts as literature, exactly?
Because you can't talk about concepts, which in a visual medium simply become a simulacrum of themselves. ie. the magical girls all become specific entities (specific characters) rather than mere concepts, and everything that occurs will happen because of the specific entities (specific characters whims, likes and dislikes, etc), rather it being a broad look at magical girls.
In other words, you can't have a story about very specific events that flow from one to another, while at the same time examining ALL of the potential consequences of a concept. The two things, a deconstruction, and a story, are diametrically opposed.
IN OTHER OTHER WORDS.
The concept of a leaf, for example is simple yes? But the moment you show a specific leaf, you are no longer talking about leaves, you are talking about that specific leaf.
Does this help at all? I'm very tired and should be shitposting instead of trying to describe difficult concepts to people.
>>143216834
Yes, that makes sense, I appreciate you taking the time to explain. I still wouldn't be surprised if the term evolved to be a bit more inclusive, and really it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world as there isn't really any equivalent for narratives for the basic concept, and subversion isn't really an appropriate substitute. The term has become so commonplace to use out of that specific context, it seems pretty inevitable.
>>143216338
I'd say the series had some interesting twists, but it's ending was that special. Rebellion's twist is literally just a somewhat darker Mistress 9. I worry Quartet is going to trip over itself to create something "new" rather than just doing their best to create a satisfying climax to the series with the tentative sequel.
>>143217202
Not really anon, using words where they do not apply just reeks of bad thought. It's kinda like just letting your garden grow however the fuck it wants instead of actually gardening it.
>>143217223
*ending wasnt that special
>>143217255
What would be a more appropriate term for what people mislabel "deconstructions" then?
![Puella Magi Madoka Magica 12 My Very Best Friend.mkv_snapshot_06.22_[2016.06.23_10.53.37].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/SsZrqRy.jpg "Puella Magi Madoka Magica 12 My Very Best Friend.mkv_snapshot_06.22_[2016.06.23_10.53.37].jpg")
>>143203787
Why was anne frank in Madoka
Was the lady who created hidamari sketch saying Jews were magical girls
>>143217258
Ending was pretty great. It was perfectly in line with the tone of the series and the established characters.
>>143217456
No, she just wanted tosave her in some sort of time machine
>>143217375
That really depends on what they mean by it. That's the whole point of using words; communication of ideas. And whatever ideas they've been attributing to that word, most likely already exist in some fashion as another word. Sometimes their ideas are just vaguely retarded mush because they are stupid. Who knows.
Look at >>143214682
He probably means something like a subversion, since the weapons aren't magical, but ended up using deconstruction because that's what he thinks it means.
Anyway, I gotta go to bed. I'm fucked.
subversion does not equal deconstruction
>>143217456
>Why was anne frank in Madoka
Because she's one of the most well known figures of the holocaust and one of the most well known pubescent girls in history for that matter, so it'd only make sense Kyuubey would would want to make a contract with her as she would have a high karmic destiny.
Was Jesus a magical girl aka Shaman king?
>>143217656
Well, his spirit was strong.
>season 1 ends on a perfectly understandable and at least slightly grounded note
>Rebellion is an acid trip and ends on weird abstract shit
So, let me get this straight:
>Homura somehow separates Madoka from her magic self/God/principle
>rearranges the universe to her liking OR traps the entire universe in her labyrinth which is now the universe to her liking
>basically back to the same situation as the start of Rebellion except now Homura is Satan
Everyone said Homura did everything wrong but while the last part is highly questionable, breaking free from the initial labyrinth and fucking over the Incubator cunts was perfectly right.
Also this little shit isn't so fucking tough now is he?
>>143208814
Visual arts are a form of literature in this context. I don't understand why you would think otherwise.
And fucking Derrida never properly defined 'deconstruction' anyway.
>>143218817
I still wonder how he got so dirty-looking.
Did Homura molest that thing?
>>143219891
He;s carrying the grief of all the magical girls in existence.
Maybe he will start feeling some sort of emotion.
no Brigadoon did the suffering thing (properly and better) and similar stuff earlier
>>143203787
No.
Millenials think deaths and dark tones make someone "deconstruction "
Regardless of what OP asked, I don't like these threads.
>lel, anime suck amirite?
I swear to god, /a/ is the place where I feel more out of place for liking anime.
>>143216834
Then how do you call pieces of literature which dirsupted previous literary conventions? E.g. "Waiting for Godot"?
>>143207349
Whether he intended it to be or not, Madoka is indeed a deconstruction in the common sense of the word. More specifically, it deconstructs the whole idea of a bunch of teenage girls fighting monsters every night and yet still remaining bright and cheerful. Notice how Mami and Sayaka had discussions about the difficulty in getting sufficent sleep? That's another part of the deconstruction.
Who cares? Does determining whether or not it's a deconstruction have any impact on its quality?
It seems like the line is pretty starkly drawn where all Madoka haters claim it isn't a deconstruction, as if the word itself makes the show good. For what it's worth the faggots who think it's good purely because it might be a deconstruction are just as bad.
>>143221997
>Does determining whether or not it's a deconstruction have any impact on its quality?
yes, because muh DEEP genre label
>>143219891
You'd be pretty raggedy-looking too if a 50m tall female Satan took out several timelines' worth of repressed sexual urges on you.
>>143222262
>several
Try around 100.
>People don't like it when their magical girls are deconstructed
>With this feedback in mind please enjoy our new course-corrected Madoka project
Reminder that Sayaka wants a big, fat cock.
If Homura did nothing wrong, does that mean Kyuubey is also blameless?
>>143203787
There's no such thing as a magical girl genre.
>>143222195
Label =/= quality
>>143222545
No one does anything wrong, ever.
We're all slaves of the causal chain of the Universe, hence Homura did nothing wrong.
>>143223784
That'd sure be an interesting line to tell the judge.
>>143220152
I love when people say this as if it's true when in reality they only bring titles up like this because they think people haven't seen them.
Madoka was far better in it's tragedy than Brigadoon, you didn't see Madoka falling in a bath barrel and going blind because suffering, and it didn't have some mother who is basically turned into a homicidal team rocket over the death of her child. Brigadoon was a fine show, but please don't try and act like it was better executed purely because less people saw it and you wish to encourage others to watch it by acting as if it's unquestionably better than a popular show.
>>143222545
No, Kyuubey is the one at fault for basically everything. Whatever Homura did to him I hope it was something he wasn't into.
>>143203980
Where is this from?
>>143223969
The law actually already does this, as it separates blame from responsibility. It doesn't dictate who is to blame, only hold those responsible for their actions.
Witch puella would you magi?
>>143225207
Mami or Sayaka, definitely.
>>143225207
The one you posted most definitely. She would be a wild fuck since she's so thirsty for the cock.
>>143220405
pretentious garbage
wait, that's what you'd call a deconstruction as well.
>>143224240
Whatever lovers' quarrel Madoka and Homura need to work out next project is second only to the absolute need for them to permanently do something about that little shit.
>>143203787
no, it was an origins story
>>143203787
I never understood why this is so popular. She was useless for the entirety of the show only to become god or whatever at the end. It felt like a mess so I think I'm missing something
Reminder that these two are such gigantic faggots they have body pillows of each others god forms.
