Any examples you can think of for any tier?
>>142580295
>ELDER GOD TIER
>Villains whose motives are hard to find fault in and are arguably better than the Hero's.
Shouldn't ELDER GOD TIER just be
>Villains whose motives rely on concepts that humans do not even have words to describe and who by their nature cannot ever be understood fully
Every time I see this chart I get pissed because Mid tier should be higher.
>Lavos
>Just trying to survive
How destroying the Earth was relevant to its survival again?
>>142580295
>all that western shit
Why would you post that here?
>Villains whose motives are hard to find fault in and are arguably better than the Hero's.
Sounds right.
>>142581197
this
next time post a chart with anime images >>142580295
>>142580295
>Implying motives are the entirety of what makes a villain
>>142580295
By your criteria, Elder God as fuck I'd wager.
I don't agree, at least I don't think the criteria are absolute and, ultimately, it all comes down to execution.
For example, the Mayor in Hellsing was just an evil psycho, but he was a fun villain to have regardless.
>>142580911
That just sounds like extremely shitty writing
>I'm genociding you, but trust me there's a really deep reason for it which I won't explain as you cannot possibly understand it
>>142580812
Squealer did nothing wrong.
>>142583434
This faggot gets it.
A good villain is one who gets some sort of response from the viewer. You could have an "elder god tier villain" but if nobody gives a fuck about him then he was a complete failure as a character.
>>142583626
It was a joke about the elder gods you autistic fuck.
>>142583626
>Implying Lovecraft's elder gods would even attempt to justify their actions to barely sentient 3-dimensional beings let alone acknowledge their existence on any level
Read a book
>>142581186
It's basically a planet parasite.
Don't make an Elder God tier if you can't put Elder Gods in it.
>>142580295
>not placing Gannondorf in the High Tier
Kotomine Kirei belongs in every category
Besides Great
>>142581058
>hey man why are you being a dick?
>can't help it, its in my nature
i fucking hate this
>>142580295
This is fucking stupid. It's just saying the best villains are the least villainous ones. There are plenty of great evil antagonists.
Execution >>>> Type
who is the doctor doom of anime?
>>142584015
Yoshikage Kira pretty much is just adhering to his nature. He's a serial killer because of his compulsion. Diego would be a better example for that spot. Aztec Vampire too, is much closer to gay priest's motive.
>>142584091
>>142583434
Also this.
OP's chart has been posted on /a/ many times and every time it gets called stupid for ignoring the importance of narratives.
>>142584016
name 10
>>142580295
Manami sure enter in the Elder God Tier.
In wich category is he?
>>142584343
Meh tier
he's pretty much just edgy for the sake of it. Don't get me wrong he's a great character in a shit series but he's not much more then 'INSANE' character in the beginning (not counting his growth into an ally)
>>142584225
Off the top of my head:
Dio
Rau
Griffith
There's plenty more but I can't think of any right now.
>>142584473
dio isnt even best jojo villain. diavolo is easily better.
valentine and pucci a best tho.
>>142580295
So Esdeath is Mid TIer? I'm fine with this.
>>142584015
>Pucci
>Not elder god tier
Delete this
>>142580295
>Villains who are just evil or lust for power
>SHIT TIER
Should be ELDER GOD TIER. I'm sick of villains with excuses for how what they became or sob 'he a gud boy he dindu nuffin' stories.
>>142580295
I am biased and believe he will be Great/God Tier :)
Here is an anime one I found a while ago.
Momoka is shit. SHIIIIIT!
The thing about Watchmen though is that it was playing with the "hero-villain" dynamic. All the 'heroes' aren't very heroic, and while Veidt certainly plays the part of a villain and is aware of that (even humors it), ultimately he is the one who saves the world from nuclear annihilation, which technically makes him the hero. It does feel like bullshit for obvious reasons but it's hard to deny, as even Rorschach showed.
The danger is focusing too much on a villain's motives is that the villain may not actually seem like a villain, just someone the protagonist opposes. And if the villain has better motives than the hero, it risks making the hero look shittier in comparison and people will naturally side with the villain.
This isn't to say great motives or any sort of complexity is bad. Just tired of people who want think every villain who isn't like that is bad, or need them to be sympathetic and relateable, or just plain not villainous.
Evil villains are always better than Freudian Excuse villains.
>>142584773
Since when is Reinhard even supposed to be a villain?
>>142584473
Yeah Dio is who I thought of as well. He's got that unshakable arrogance.
>>142584773
Where would Kyubey go?
>>142584773
Mein Kaiser is not a villain he is a hero!
>>142584903
Mid Tier.
>>142584773
Lohengramm is no villain god dammit.
Lohengramm is the single most heroic character in logh.
>>142584903
Mid, his stupid entropy motive puts him pretty squarely in that category.
Rebellion Homura would probably be meh tier.
>>142584773
>Reinhardt a villain
Also the dude on the left in meh tier seems real familiar, who was that again?
>shit tier villains all from shitty shows
Heh
>>142583434
I thought it was weak. Robohitler tries to use science and fails to kill Alucard, and why?
>killing people is fun :^)
Where does he belong?
>>142584876
Around the time he became Keiser.
If you dont understand, Reinhard main issue at that point was he was going to replace a Monarchy with another one, his line and didnt understood he was just prolonging the Empire anyway.
>>142585017
Elder Jobber God Tier.
Above everyone else.
>>142580295
Confirmed for elder god status.
Where would a villain that does evil out of apathy or just not caring be put?
>>142585119
A psychopath? Meh tier / Shit tier
>>142585119
Shit tier. Apathy is effectively being "just evil".
What about her?
>>142585046
That doesn't make him a villain, necessarily. The whole point was the debate between a democratic government with shitty rulers or a autocratic aristocracy with an excellent ruler.
Reinhardo was justified in cleansing the current monarchy because they were corrupt and abusing the people of the Empire. It's not villainous to purge the wicked. Conflict arose on the basis of "what happens after you're gone?"
>>142585119
They're ultimate shit-tier if they're aware they're doing evil without caring. They're mid-tier if what they're doing is only incidentally evil, and their own actions, defined as necessary by themselves, lead them to do evil.
>>142585017
Mid Tier
>>142584015
>great tier
But that's wrong, that would be ghost kira instead.
>>142585199
High tier according to the chart
Personally I would put her on meh tier at most
>>142580812
This.
>>142584016
Motives aren't the same as actions. Doing terrible things to achieve a long term goal that will eventually benefit mankind still makes you the villain .
Elder-God tier
>>142583755
Case in point.
>>142585451
Yoshikage Kira just wants a quiet life. But people won't leave him alone because he looks like a David Bowie impersonator.
>>142580295
It all comes down to execution, you can have a villain who's always entertaining to see in action but has shallow motives or a dindu villain with 2deep4u motivations but with shitty writing that make his plan feel nonsensical.
>>142584773
WATASHI WA
NINGEN
>>142584773
>>142580295
can't tell what satou is, most logical answer is that he is meh tier, because he mostly do all sort of crazy shit just because he is bored. yet at the same time he fights for something
>my kind is mistreated by society
>coexistence will not workout
>better raise my kind to the top of the pyramid
probably meh huh? he still is one of my favorite villians of all time
>>142584343
Anywhere between high and meh
>>142584773
AAAAANDOOOOOOOUUUUUUUU
>>142581197
>>142581517
who would even be an /a/ related equivalent to Ozymandias?
>>142584343
You didn't even post the best villain, faggot.
Where would SHE go?
>>142585719
Johan
>>142585719
Hao Asakura probably
>>142585589
He killed one of the main characters. When he got converted into a ghost, he had no other option than do what reimi told him.
>>142585748
Fresh tier.
>>142584590
Everything about Diavolo is boring except for his Stand. Dio has far more entertaining and that's what JoJo is really about.
>>142585206
Its not that simple, Friedrich IV died and the Empire ended up with a civil war.
The argument was the flaws of both systems as Yang does put it and even goes about the pros and cons but doesnt provide a answer, you also miss the point were Friedrich IV engineered the whole thing by putting Reinhard into such a position of power.
The problem with Reinhard was that there was no assurance over his line would be as capable as him or did started to abuse the people as you put, in the end the Empire would continue because it was a absolute regime, he didnt even attempted to meet halfway.
Reinhard was such a Mary Sue that the author had to come up with Space AIDS to kill him, Yang at least had a lot of faults .. too bad he died.
>>142585719
Squealer
Tell me about villains that you don't know were the hell they fit in. I can't really think of any in anime or manga right now
Where would shinji go? Great tier?
>>142584590
>valentine and pucci a best tho.
>Not kira
>>142585922
Is there a category for
>MC that tried to fix shit but they just fucked it up more
What about a morally grey mc that is considered a villain?
>>142586161
Villain ≠ antagonist
>>142580295
This list is flawed by its very nature. Brotip: Having a "good reason" to do horrible things doesn't actually make for a good character.
>>142586235
They said villains, I'm giving them a character supposedly based on being a villain, death.
>>142586298
KIMOI
>>142584986
homura fits squarely in great tier
>>142585119
how do you act out of apathy? seems like a bit of a paradox you have there
apathy is not a motive, it's a feeling towards those you're attacking and thus could fit any of the tiers.
for instance
a father shoplifting to feed his children whilst not caring about some monopolistic supermarket chain that unjustly fired him is elder god tier
(by the way this is just one example, i swear to god if someone tries to argue my main point by saying this is not elder god tier, i will kill myself on cam)
some lol so evil villain who doesn't care about his victims is shit tier
it makes no difference
>>142580295
Complicated villains with interesting motivations are cool and all
but sometimes I like to have a villain who's just plain evil.
>>142581186
Lavos eats planets, anon.
If you eat a cow, the cow will die.
If you eat a plant, the plant will die.
If you don't eat, you die.
>>142580295
This chart is really shit and full of "exceptions".
>>142586343
She isn't reluctant at all though, if anything it would be closer to high since she's in a sense retaliating toward the shit done to her or trying to radically change the witch/incubator system.
Personally I think her change of heart is closer to insanity which would put her in meh.
>>142585119
Okay if he's like a godly being doing it for fun/out of boredom and probably doesn't even see it as wrong. He can be an entertaining character and do entertaining stuff.
People too focused on seeing a sort of humanity in a villain, that's dumb.
>>142586484
she actually has a reason though, the meh tier is for those without reasons and that is what is meant by 'insanity'
the other tiers also do not exclude insane characters
>>142583434
Anderson was a much better antagonist than the major. But that was because of pure charisma, so I agree that OPs picture is inaccurate.
>>142584773
Griffith is a mix of "High" and "Meh"
He won't go out of his way to be a massive asshole unless you're Guts, but he does just want power.
>>142580911
That's mid or Meh tier. The tier titles don't mean anything specific.
>>142586674
"High" and "Shit", rather.
>>142584773
>Griffith
>Reluctant villain
u wot m8? He willingly sacrificed the Hawks with a smile on his face, and doesn't regret it one bit. He's more complex than your average monster, but he is absolutely motivated by a desire for power.
>>142584275
She is always shit tier in every list.
>>142586711
He's pretty high on the list, though. Definitely not shit tier.
Wait a minute, how on the villain scale would people rate him?
>>142586831
He's complex, but by that list's rankings he's effectively a mid.
>>142584225
>>142584473
Frieza
Squealer
Ze Major
Rikyuwho did everything fucking wrong fuck you apologists
and the list gets infinitely large if were talking about antagonists and not raw villains.
Also fuck the OPs pic for putting the Joker in meh tier.
>>142586105
Any time travel MC.
>>142585003
hes the villain from Samidare no biscuit hammer or whatever the translated name was
>>142586298
Fucking saved, gotta post this every time this chart is posted.
>>142584721
If Oda's execution of Deflamingo is anything to go by, He'll fuck it up horrifically.
The man has many talents but I have yet to see him properly execute *anything* that he personally hypes in his own series, from his timeskip characterization and growth to his seeded story developments.
I'm afraid BB is going to be utter shit when he gets the focus again, and he deserves better than that.
>>142584721
>:)
Stop shitposting.
>>142585046
>Reinhard main issue at that point was he was going to replace a Monarchy with another one
Go to bed, you bloody colonial.
>>142586853
But his ambitions and complexity brings his level up, making the list ineffective, correct?
>>142584773
Pretty spot on
>>142585719
griffith
>>142586993
This whole thread shits on the chart.
>>142584773
Honestly this list is good because you can tell a good anime from a shitty one, which is ironic because almost every villian in Naruto belongs in High to Mid tier
>>142586831
He's proof the chart is shit. You can't boil an antagonist down to just their core motivations - there's more to them than that. Griffith may be driven by a lust for power, but his complex relationships with the surviving Hawks makes him far more interesting than example "low tier" villains like Ganon
>>142585510
A villain can still be a great character even if they aren't trying to benefit anyone but themselves and are just a complete prick.
>>142584225
Dio
Freeza/Cell
Kaiki
Vicious
Tonegawa
Griffith (might be in the situation tier)
Major from Hellsing
Just off the top of my head.
>>142587108
The chart is shit to begin with.
>>142586674
Ehhhh Griffith did what he did due to him staying true to his nature, but really only sacrificed the Band because it was it was his only way to obtain power.
>>142584166
I would say that Light from Death Note really fits into Doom's mindset
Wants a peaceful and orderly world, with him as the undisputed king at the top, and views anyone that does not bow to him as garbage to be disposed of.
>>142587330
Because he fucked up his previous way to get power through his own stupidity.
>>142587425
Where would Light even fall on this tier list? He's clearly straight up evil, especially at the end of the series, but he also is trying to make a better world, and also just making the best of the situation presented to him.
>>142587444
Yeah, the fact that Guts made him lose sight of his dream for even a few moments really fucked him up, I feel that because of that, he decided that he would never let sentiment ever make him lose sight of his goal again.
>>142587466
I'd say that Light started out in Elder God tier, using the Death Note was a means to an end it for a bit it really seemed that using it took a toll on him. That being said he quickly sliped into Mid tier when he killed "L" on TV. He went from "for the greater good" to "I am a GOD!"
>>142580295
This is a chart for amateur writers who think making the villiain ACTUALLY LE GOOD GUY is an instant-win button that will propel their shitty novel into a gripping exploration of mankind.
I've always felt the best thing a villain can have is a fatal flaw. Something that stops them from being the hero in the story be it arrogance, stubbornness, violence, inability to let go of the past, whatever. Failing to conquer the flaw and letting it consume them is what separates them from the hero and what ultimately leads to their downfall.
>>142580295
I'm currently trying to write a villain for a story. Realised that by looking at this he's half elder-half shit tier... Kinda awkward now.
>>142587702
Don't take that shit seriously.
>>142587689Just like deadpool? i hate to reference capeshit but it fits
>>142587739
I'm not sure, i havent seen any deadpool outside the 4th wall breaking chimichanga meme stuff. Also he's a hero/anti-hero from what i know and that's a different story.
>>142587689
They don't need a fatal flaw, but it humanises them and makes them more relatable. Being able to relate to a villain whilst recognising that they are doing evil is not something that can be achieved through average writing. On the same note, heroes with fatal flaws are also more interesting and more believable. Unwavering idealism and unending willpower are the traits of the ultimate hero, but those same traits alienate them from the audience and make them feel less 'real' and more fantastical.
At the end of the day I think it's all about stylistic choice. A villain's quality is intrinsically linked with the quality of the setting they reside in.
>>142587787
The difference between anti-hero and villian is the perspective of the one telling the tale, Deadpool fits both roles in different comics but i won't dig further because this is not /co/
I mean Griffith could be some sort of anti-hero/hero/villain depending of who you ask inside the world
>>142587739
If you consider insanity a flaw. But it's not like he failed to overcome it. His entire body constantly being broken down and rebuilt. It's kinda hard to be of sound mind when the contents of your mind changes every few seconds. But it is a fatal flaw and when he's written well he is a really good anti-hero.
>>142587702
Villains that are just villains are the best, don't let people trick you.
>>142587892
Insanity is a dual sword, it can be as much a flaw as it is a perk, this mostly depends of the creativity of the author tough
>>142583932
>being a dick
This is where you went wrong.
>>142587872
Griffith betrayed his comrades, who put their faith in him. The deepest circle of hell is reserved for betrayers. I don't think even anti-heroes commit such gross sin.
>>142587997
Except the word betray implies he somehow lied to them, Casca was Griffiths most devout believer, but even she knew that he saw her as a means to an end. Griffith always viewed the Band as tools to gain his kingdom.
>>142587872
A lot of Griffith's supposed good qualities are projected onto him by /a/. They claim he's trying to make a better world and stuff and while you could say he is MAKING a better world, its not because he's actively trying to but because that's the best way to get his goal of becoming king, which he harbours for entirely selfish reasons.
I love him as a villian because of how much emotion he brings out of me. Damning all of his friends to hell for a second chance because HE fucked everything up the first time. And now everything in the world is going his way and he shows absolutely no remorse for the things he's done. I have never wanted a character to lose more in any story. But despite all this in another world he could have been such a wonderful person if he didn't have his dream of a kingdom that consumed his entire life and drove him to commit the evil he did.
>>142587997
They do actually quite often, the difference is that Griffith is one of the few that actually doesn't give a fuck about thatmostly because he's not a human anymoreunlike other characters who grief over sacrifices they had to make but still have the will to fight for their goals
Inhumanity is something anyone can really oppose so i think the main problem is that you can't sympathize with Griffith inhuman actions
>>142588047
They would die for the living legend that was Griffith. He sacrificed them on the altar of apotheosis to escape the cruelties of his mortal coil. There's a big difference between dying for your king and being eaten alive as part of a blood pact.
>>142588100
people always get caught up on the eclipse too when discussing griffith being a dick. Nobody mentions that afterwards he REMADE the band and filled it with the very apostles that had devoured the previous so they can all play knight together.
>>142585719
Kotomine Kirei?
>>142587872
>griffith
>every a hero
HEY MAN I MADE A CITY
COINCIDENTALLY, IT'S THE ONLY PLACE IN THE WORLD WITHOUT RAPE TROLLS
THE WORLD I MADE.
>>142588224
EMIYA KIRITSUGU
>>142588167
Honestly it's one of the only things that stuck with me. I can't remember much from when I read Berserk years ago, they got on the boat and I got off the manga.
>>142588224
Fuck no, are you retarded?
>>142580295
Excpet that Gyigas is high tier.
>human steals his technology and secrets
>his wife shows him affection and love
>gets "saved" by his own people
>they permanently fuck up his psyche in order to erase his memory of Maria's kindness
>becomes fucking insane
>some fat ass dump kid pulls fhe plug to your stasis machine
>>142588255
>Fuck no, are you retarded?
His mid tier in zero but he winds up more heroic than the main characters in heaven's feel
I dont understand why mid tier is in mid.
I mean they do what they do to survive just like human existence who kills another life in order to exist
>>142588364
I haven't read it. I know SN and Zero are supposed to be crap but they honestly destroyed any interest I had in the series. Everyone except Rider is just so pants on head retarded.
Keksalot
>>142588421
They're mid-tier because they're an obstacle or a threat without further complexity. The upper ranks belong to villains whose convictions and justification make you question whether defeating them is truly the right thing to do. Or at the very least, make you question whether you have the right to intercede or stop them.
The problem with this chart is that it assumes that a villain's motives and the presentation of the villain's motives are the same thing. While they are often one and the same in Japanese cartoons, they aren't always.
Obvious example: Char
The underlying reason for all of the shit he does isn't that his father was assassinated by the Zabis or that he wants freedom for all Spacenoids (he does want revenge on the Zabis and he does want freedom for Spacenoids, but these things aren't why he is the way he is). The actual reason for his behavior is that he is, by nature, a sociopath. It's why he had no compunctions about laughing at his best friend shortly before his own betrayal killed said friend and why his actions are directly responsible for Reccoa's defection in Zeta.
Char is a shining example of a pretty lousy motive that is presented in an thorough and interesting way. It's certainly better than a Tales of Phantasia-style reveal at the very end that "oh, this genocidal villain was actually acting for the greater good!"
>CTRL F
>Anti-Spiral
>0 results
He was doing what he genuinely thought was better for the universe.
Does Nox count as anime? Yuasa animated him that one time.
>>142588509
Does it means he is great tier in UBW?
>>142580911
God should be up there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i52iooE2nVI
>>142588585
Archer is way too fucking edgy for his own good. He loses points for trying to articulate his argument in the roundabout fashion that plagues the Fate series.
I honestly think he would've been a better villain in a show where the writer isn't a retard.
>>142588583
Lord Jerome is high tier. That's why he found absolution in the end and his daughter accepted him. Shit was tight.
Anti-spiral was a nerd who wanted to destroy all life to prevent all life from being destroyed.
>>142588583
Just because you are correct doesnt mean you are right kiddo
>>142588671
>I honestly think he would've been a better villain in a show where the writer isn't a retard.
>show
>>142584773
Reinhart isn't a villain.
Griffith shouldn't be in Great tier as it doesn't fit the definition. He's not reluctant and doesn't do evil things because of the situation he's in. He does it for his own goals.
Takano would be a great replacement and addition to the great tier.
She only committed genocide because of the path that lead her there and because she was wrong about everything.
>>142588787
Everyone does it for their own goals.
>>142585672
Just because he's awesome as fuck and entertaining doesn't make him a bad villain, just not a great one.
>>142585017
Mid, he then develops all the steps until Elder
Let me tell you about villains
>>142588799
No shit. Most don't fuck other people for their goals though, that's what makes them villains.
The great villains are the one you cant see
The one who will give you realization along with the goosebumps once you find them
You don't judge villains by their archetype, you judge them by their execution. /v/ please go
>>142588901
But saying he's good because he "Does it for his goals" is dumb.
The greatest villain is still Johan.
The one who is hidden in the narrative without anyone realising it unless you carefully read the whole story
>>142589000
No shit, I never said Griffith was good, just that he doesn't fit the definition. Don't put words in my mouth.
![[HorribleSubs] Fate Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA 2wei Herz! - 04 [720p].mkv_snapshot_07.10_[2015.08.14_23.03.47].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/R8CYPP6.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Fate Kaleid Liner PRISMA ILYA 2wei Herz! - 04 [720p].mkv_snapshot_07.10_[2015.08.14_23.03.47].jpg")
>>142586298
Such a great fucking character, new season when?
>>142589057
I'll put more than that in your mouth fucker.
The greates villain
>>142588424
I guess if you don't understand the cosmology of the setting half of the story stops making sense.
A lot of the magic stuff is plain all out reality warping and most of humanity is being controlled by mass hypnosis. Learning magic involves breaking free from that and understanding that whats considered common sense is mostly a lie. A lot of people are doing sensible things in that context but the anime simply ignores most of the implications of humanity being stuck in the matrix.
>>142589085
Literally who?
>>142585719
The closest I can think of is Eto from TG or Griffith.
>>142589121
Darkness
>>142589121
You know him well
>>142589179
>he's such a faggot the very state of not being illuminated bullies him
>>142589179
Holy shit you are fucking autistic
>>142589157
>Darkness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9k1rNdPTDc
By the exact conditions of the chart, Mid-tier.
But this nigger's at least high-tier.
/vp/ seems to be having an easier time picking the tiers.
There is literally nothing wrong with a villain who's just evil because, as long as it is well executed. While said villain is unlikely to be a deep or complex character, that is not necessarily needed for them to be an effective or good villain for the sake of the story.
That's one of the reasons why i hate the chart in OP, because it has more to do with the depth and complexity of the character of the villain rather than anything to do with how good the villain is for the story itself.
>>142580295
>muh villain should be good guy deep down teenage bullshit
>>142583626
Justifies the original point.
>>142583658
>>142585492
>>142580812
Jacobin scum, enjoy becoming Brazil at best and Rhodesia at worst.
>>142584015
>Valentine
>villain
Accelerator was a Great/Elder tier villain turned anti-hero right?
What about villains who do their evil deeds in order to bring back their dead waifu?
>>142580295
>A villain is good or bad solely on his motives
Fuck and take your /v/ pic with you
>>142589753
>Giovanni
>Not Elder God Tier
>>142595232
Pure speculation, anon. Team Rocket just wanted to catch any strong and rare Pokemon they could. Ghost Pokemon were rare because they required a special scope in order to reveal them.
But just because Giovanni's motives fall under shit tier doesn't mean he was shit himself. Team Rocket was at least coherent in their goals - unlike Lysandre who was basically a broken, rambling madman through the game going on about "beautiful worlds" and that.
>>142589059
January senpai.
>>142591193
That doesn't even make sense
Elder god tier
>>142584773
Yoshii is misplaced.
>>142588546
this tbqh. The best villains are the ones who are most human. Char is like that because he does everything for (seemingly) such grand motives, when deep down he is just resentful, angry, and petty.
>>142580295
I think it's more about how well done the villian is, and much less about what type of villian he is.
I particularly like the villains in FMA brotherhood, because they are actually legitimate threats to the protagonists' progress and safety, but are also ideological threats as well.
Kimbley, for example, keeps restricting ed and al, constantly being a roadblock for them. In other shows, villians tend to obstacles that must be overcome, but never really slow the main characters down. Luffy, for example, keeps going where ever the fuck he wants, and beats the shit out of any villians that get in his way.
It can feel annoying how the bad guys never really seem to be a threat to the characters. you KNOW the main characters are going to beat them, no matter how much drama or other bullshit goes on. Naruto beats pain, without a shadow of a doubt, the moment they start fighting.
That's why brotherhood's villains work so well, because they win and get what they want, up until the end. They are villians the main characters must prostrate themselves before.
Also, brotherhood has villians that are ideologically superior to most villains. It's not that their actions are justified, but rather, just because they don't agree with the main characters doesn't mean they instantly lose. Too many shows have it where the 'morally correct' characters end up winning. Even if the villain has a point, the show will still make them out to be misguided.
I really appreciate Wrath and Kimbley, because it's super refreshing to have villains with a modicum of self awareness and insight. Kimbley ridicules the other soldiers for feeling bad during the ishvalan war, because they signed up to be in the army. What were they expecting? Kimbley lives for battle, and at no point could anyone ever fault him for that, which makes him seem like an actual threat to the main characters.
If the protagonists overcome struggle, viewers like it. FMAB makes villains real struggles
>>142580295
Yuji in Shana S3 is Elder God-tier.
>>142596304
Fuck off MAL/Reddit.
>>142580295
What is this shit? Would you judge all characters on their motivation? Heroes/side characters included?
>What if they're really funny villains who win you over by how goofy they are?
>What if they're extremely clever villains who are constantly one step ahead of everyone else?
>What if they're admirably determined and can earn your respect by showing how tough they are?
>What if they are extremely loyal to their underlings/higher power, and have a great, touching relationship with them?
>What if they have a divine level of charisma that can win over anyone?
Almost any of the above can make a good/interesting character, even if they still ultimately want some kind of selfish/immoral goal.
>>142584773
>Ragyo
>Shit Tier
What? She's mid tier. She worships the life fibers as gods, and continues to serve them because she believes that is the natural purpose of all intelligent life.
>>142580295
But:
>Meh: obeying their nature
>Shit: evil because power/lust
Doesn't that mean there is no shit or no meh? A villain can desire/lust for power because they really think that of themselves, sheer arrogance, megalomania, insane control freak that must have things turn out in their ideal way etc.
>>142585672
He wants to step on the turtles
>>142595318
>But just because Giovanni's motives fall under shit tier doesn't mean he was shit himself. Team Rocket was at least coherent in their goals - unlike Lysandre who was basically a broken, rambling madman through the game going on about "beautiful worlds" and that.
Lysandre believes that conflict exists due to a shortage of resources due to too many living beings on the planet. The Pokemon also contributed to conflict because due to their power humans wanted to use them as tools against other humans, even if they had no fault of their own.
He wanted to kill all Pokemon and a large part of humanity in order to end conflict and allow the chosen survivors to build a beautiful world without conflict.
The issue is that his motives are only revealed in a single exposition scene near the ending of his plotline. I think Team Flare would have worked much better if they were preaching those beliefs through the game, with a cultist-like personality around Lysandre. Rather than making it seem like they're just Team Rocket 2.0 that sometimes say some indecipherable garbage about a beautiful world.
>>142593149
He went from meh to great to elder god.He vectored himself through mid and high tier.
Knives?
>>142584773
I don't think Kaiki belongs there at all
>>142584773
Kaiki doesn't belong on a villain list. Same with Reinhardt
>>142587163
>Madara
>not elder god tier
Great or Elder God?
>>142584617
she does way more than just surviving
she is in the meh tier tbqh, even close to shit tier according to OP chart.
>>142584015
>Kars
>not shit tier
anon...
>>142585476
>>142589753
>tfw all Tumblrites are merely Lysandre tier garbage villains yet they'll be the ones to destroy the world
Dammit
>>142596413
This is way to cohesive to be from an average MAL user.
>>142584015
By definition on that Kira is mid-tier hell probably meh-tier seeing as he doesn't go around blowing up women to survive. His motives are just that he wants to live in peace by blowing women up to shit.
>>142580295
>Shit Tier: Esdese
Admit it.
She's evil for 'teh lulz'
>>142597498
Legato was a better villain though.
>>142598039
Isn't her whole character the survival of the fittest? And she doesn't desire power neither wealth, just to live and die for the battle, most like a viking.
Gendo
>>142597941
We don't know shit about Titan Village, so a bit soon to put him in Elder
>>142599177
Despite how much I like Gendo, he only fit in Meh and Shit tier, fuck.
>>142599071
she seems pretty happy about bringing suffering to her enemies though. She had a fascination with those flowers, for example.
>>142581186
Part of his reproduction cycle.
![Ifonly2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/SE6kHZG.jpg "Ifonly2[1].jpg")
>>142584983
>single most heroic character in logh
>gets millions of people killed for his ego
>than accepts status quo peace deal from Julian anyways negating all the sacrfifices of his own soldiers.
Show hammers it heavily that Reinhardt without Kircheis is making a lot of awful decisions. He's not a very good person without a counterweight.
>>142599477
>not enjoying your work
Mate.
And you said it so, "her enemies", she just happen to be in the wrong side of the war.
>>142599901
With her power, she could have done much more than being a simple pawn. She choose to do it because she enjoyed inflicting pain, not the other way around.
>>142600098
She choosed to be a "pawn", all she wanted was to engage in unlimited battles, that's why she joined the capital to begin with, she said it so. What she enjoy is the defeat and torment of the losers, it's part of her nature.
>200+ posts of people replying to a troll image
>>142600387
chose*
>>142596446
Because this image was made to troll people. And /a/ is now mostly newfags too young to remember when this image was first created.
>>142600441
>>142600528
>>142584773
Griffith should be in shit tier considering the description. Afterall, his goal was to have a kingdom of his own.
One more proof the tier list is shit.
>>142585719
The Sentinels in FrankenFran.
I know they are protagonists but they do evil actions, so I count them as villains.
I would also mention Kira, whose objective WAS pretty good arguably, before the god complex kicked in. Now I guess he's turns to shit tier pretty quick.
>>142580295
>lust for power
>shit tier
I disagree with this completely, I think the lust for power if done right can be god tier.
lu buwei is a good example of this, he is cunning, charismatic, wise, ruthless.
hell he can get his own manga and it would be a good manga too, imagine from merchant to king, the guy is truely a great man.
>>142580295
Gyugas scares me, even to this day.
God fucking job, Japan.
>>142584275
she is mid tier
>>142580295
Whoever made this list is retarded as fuck.
A villain is as good as his writer. His motives are completely irrelevant when it comes to his quality as a villain(and the quality of the writing).
If I make a shitty gary stu villain for a story and make him end up being in the right, he won't be a better villain than Joker or Hannibal. Execution is always the key. You faggots of all people should know that, since a video game idea doesn't mean anything and it's all about its execution.
>>142603354
>>142603525
The list is either rating villains based on their motives, or rating the actual motives of villains.
Both are the point of my post. In that they're irrelevant.
![latest[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/O9yLnHH.png "latest[1].png")
>>142580295
That chart should be reversed (not literally see below) if you took the perspective of someone evil. Which should be a highly valued trait in a villian (being evil). And no I'm not saying that villians acting edgy for the sake of edge should be at the top but hurr durr my cause is good so I'm not evil but still the villian is shit tier.
>>142589189
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.
