The last we'll see of animated Saber will be a corrupted version of her being killed by Shirou.
I'm so depressed
>Sparks Liner High will never be animated
>>142424448
Believe Anon, believe
>>142424295
Make way for your Emperor.
Who cares Fate is fucking garbage.
>implying Fate won't be animated afterwards
>>142426011
I actually wouldn't mind a fate route remake.
>>142424295
>The last we'll see of animated Saber
We're going to be seeing animated Saber until the end of time; it is now mandatory for her design to be recycled into anything she isn't in herself.
>>142424448
I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they essentially have a Sparks Liner High proxy scene where Rider shows up right before he goes over the edge and it continues back onto the route.
>>142426011
It's a little late for that considering they did UBW for the 10th anniversary
>>142426231
>it is now mandatory for her design to be recycled into anything she isn't in herself
We're talking about original Arturia here
>>142427222
so?
>>142427409
Wish on your lucky stars and you might get another Saber route anime
>>142424295
I'm glad.
>>142424448
Blu-Ray extra?
>Shaft is literally making a Fate Extra anime
>OP thinks Heavens Feel will be the last of animated Arturia
>>142424295
there's always the possibility of getting F/HA adapted (somehow), gotta believe
>>142426231
>I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they essentially have a Sparks Liner High proxy scene where Rider shows up right before he goes over the edge and it continues back onto the route.
That wouldn't make any sense, anon, if he projects K&B even once, he'll go over the limit of projections and kill himself when he Rule Breakers Sakura.
>>142430471
That's Nero
>>142432051
Just change the plot to include one more projection before he goes puff
>>142432167
He'd have to project it multiple times in order for the fight to be any length worth even showing it in the first place.
>>142430471
>Arturia
>In Extra
Why didn't Archer just use Nine Lives Blade Works against Berserker?
There's no way he could have lost that fight unless he wanted to.
>>142432354
read the VN
>>142432465
The VN doesn't say jack shit about why he couldn't use it. If Shirou can use NLBW with Archer's skill and experience it's just proof that Archer can do it too.
If Archer used NLBW, he could defeat literally every Servant in the HGW with ease.
>>142432354
He probably just didn't consider copying his enemy's weapon when he has such a big armory to pull from. Shirou didn't really have much else he could do in the same situation.
>>142432515
>If Archer used NLBW, he could defeat literally every Servant in the HGW with ease.
Yeah, no.
>>142432627
>Yeah, no.
It destroyed 80% of Berserker's body in an instant, and is at A+ rank strength because Berserker's strength is traced.
No Servant in the 5th HGW can counter something like that. He'd kill Berserker at least 9 times, then he could mop up the remaining 3 lives with ease as Berserker slowly regenerates from the puddle of skin and bone that's left.
And if Berserker is that easily taken out, Saber, Lancer, Assassin, and Rider are all mincemeat. Gil's the only guy who stands a chance and that's only because of his armor.
>>142432769
Medusa would probably destroy EMIYA with Sakura as her Master, Assassin could probably push him back considering the Temple gate nerfs NPs and he always going to fuck up against Saber.
>>142432769
>>142432354
Read the VN. Archer and Shirou were not fighting the same thing.
>>142432872
>Medusa would probably destroy EMIYA with Sakura as her Master
How? She only petrified Archer because she caught him off guard at point blank range with Cybele. That wouldn't happen if Archer was serious, because he'd just snipe her from a distance.
>Assassin could probably push him back considering the Temple gate nerfs NPs
Nine Lives Blade Works isn't a NP, it's a technique Shirou (Archer) derived from an actual NP. It's pure skill, it can't be nerfed by the temple gate.
>he always going to fuck up against Saber.
>lure Saber into CC
>use NLBW
>Saber is now mincemeat
>Archer and Shirou were not fighting the same thing.
Are you sure you read the VN? Because Berserker was stronger than ever before. He was incarnated thanks to touching the grail mud, so he gained the power of being like a runaway train. Being blind didn't slow him down or weaken him at all because he had Eye of the Mind which literally functions as the ability to see the unseen. The only way he was weaker was that he didn't have a full stock of Godhand lives because Sakura stupidly never healed him after he fought Saber Alter.
>>142433065
>Because Berserker was stronger than ever before.
No he wasn't.
>>142424295
Until Fate/Extella or Fate/Grand Order get an anime, at least.
Or hell, Apocrypha. She'd definitely show up in Mordred flashbacks.
>>142433171
I don't want an Apocrypha anime thanks.
>>142433124
You didn't even read my post, retard. An incarnated Servant is always stronger than one that isn't.
>>142433216
Gil in FSN is stronger than Gil in FZ?
>>142433216
>>142433065
Weak bait.
>>142433216
>An incarnated Servant is always stronger than one that isn't.
No, they aren't. Dark Herk was nerfed MASSIVELY by the Grail mud, and even Saber Alter wasn't a direct upgrade.
>>142425899
>your Emperor
>posting False Emperor
>posting extreme turboslut
Slaanesh approves of this Heresy.
>>142432103
>>142432251
>implying Gawain won't have flashbacks
>>142433274
Aside from not having Vimana since that got blown up and his stats being weaker, he's a lot stronger because A) he can exist without a master and B) he can fight without having to worry about running out of mana unless he uses powerful Noble Phantasms
>>142433293
>oh no I'm a retard
>better call the other guy baiting or else I'll look stupid on the internet especially after telling him to read the VN!
>making coherent arguments? What's that?
>>142433216
The black mud festering within the Holy Grail pollutes the souls of those who touch it. Whether ordinary humans or supernatural beings such as Servants, there are no exceptions. Corrupted ones have their personalities twisted in a foul way. This is the madness caused by coming into contact with Angra Mainyu, All of the World's Evil. There are individuals who have harnessed the black mud as power, as well as those who have resisted the spiritual corruption by virtue of powerful ego. Matou Sakura would be an example of the former, while Gilgamesh would be the latter.
Blackened Servants undergo true incarnation through the power of the Grail, changing into powerful beings with an increased connection to the present world. Physical interference power is greatly increased, but at the same time it is no longer possible to change into spirit form. Also, they lose their sense of control regarding prana consumption, so combat ability is dramatically enhanced. One can imagine the resulting force as something like a "runaway train." In this rampaging state, fine control is impossible, but destructive power is accordingly amplified. Blackened Servants are terrifying beings that spread death and destruction across the world.
>>142433376
That's not even the same person, retard.
Q: As a percentage, how much are the abilities of blackened Servants enhanced? Or, when such Servants have an excess energy supply like Saber (Artoria) did, can they reach a level of power comparable to or greater than what they had in life?
A: They’re like runaway trains that never run out of fuel. Except, since they’re out of control, fine handling is impossible!
How quickly could Archer win the war if he projected Caladbold, Hrunting, and Rule Breaker all at once, tied them together, and sniped all the other servants with it?
>>142433437
>oh no he called me out on shitposting
>better try to make him look dumb by implying more than one person is arguing with him
>>142433399
Is this supposed to prove me wrong?
>>142433499
>Caladbold
You know what I meant.
>>142433499
I don't think Archer actually had Rule Breaker at the start of the VN. Both UBW and HF routes make a point of giving Archer and Shirou, respectively, a good look at it before it's ever used.
>>142433499
He'd run out of Prana fast.
>>142432878
Different anon here.
Why doesn't Archer just use Gae Bolg?
If he can almost replicate Excalibur (poorly but well enough to pull off an excaliblast) and project Caliburn so well even Saber believes it's the real sword then he can surely project Gae Bolg and be done with the war.
There has to be a reason why he doesn't, but I just don't know why.
>>142433499
>>142433620
Please stop fgog
>>144462568
>>142433679
Fuck off retard.
>>142433301
http://completematerial.pbworks.com/w/page/40077644/The%20Servants%20of%20the%20Fifth%20Holy%20Grail%20War
>>142433609
>>142433726
Considering Herc is already a runaway freight train before being blackened but he loses his God Hand, it's a nerf.
>>142433820
Cite your source. Where does it say he lost Godhand?
>>142433843
Uh... uhhh....
READ THE VN!
>>142433843
How could Shirou deliver the final blow to kill him with the same weapon he already used to NL him with?
>>142433946
A+ rank strength, the weapon doesn't matter.
>>142434003
Do you know how God Hand works?
>>142434003
Shirou didn't have A+ strength.
>>142434003
Irrelevant. God Hand protects against things that have already killed Herc.
When should I expect an anime of Mahoutsukai no Yoru?
>>142434034
Do you?
>>142434051
Yes he did, he traced Berserker's strength when he traced the axe-sword. Read the VN.
>>142434060
Only if it's a specific technique, spell, or weapon usage. With A rank strength as long as you attack differently Godhand can't become immune to it, and every attack Shirou made was deliberately different - 8 slashes made in a circle attaching different parts of Berserker, then one final stab to the heart.
>>142432251
Arturia is one of the Servants of Extella, so yes, she's now in Extra. They need their game to sell after all.
>>142434149
>Only if it's a specific technique, spell, or weapon usage
Citation needed.
>>142434149
>Only if it's a specific technique, spell, or weapon usage
>specific technique
>Nine Lives
>>142434142
>>142434149
I can demonstrate mathematically that Shirou did not have A+ strength at the time. Would you like me to do so?
>>142434280
>Would you like me to do so?
Yes.
>>142434280
Yes please.
>>142434149
So you're saying it's possible to kill Herc with just one weapon without eve needing to modify it.
>>142434229
Holy fuck read the rest of his post before you go shitting on your keyboard. For instance, Tsubame Gaeshi hits the same areas each time.
And yes, Shirou replicates the original wielder's ability when using a sword sometimes. He even does it with Caliburn in fate and again against Gilgamesh in UBW, and a third time in HF during Nine Lives.
Now someone answer my question, why can't Archer just Gay Bulge everyone?
>>142434350
>>142434355
One moment. I worked this shit out years ago so I may have forgotten various details.
>even after all these years we still take the same bait over and over
>>142434404
>why can't Archer just Gay Bulge everyone
Something something wasn't trying to win he just wanted to fuck with shirou or whatever,
>>142434229
NLBW took off 8 lives, the last was just a A rank strength thrust to the heart. Shirou didn't use NLBW twice.
>>142434404
Gae Bolg's technique of reversing casuality is probably not usable by archer. It's a Cu / Scathath thing. Archer can use the thrown version of Gae Bolg with a tremendous mana cost since it's not a sword and he hasn't practiced for fucking ever with it like he did with Rho Aias.
How powerful is he? Could he beat Herc?
Why didn't Caster ape Rule Breaker to the tip of Assassin's sword so that he could RB anyone that came to the gate?
>>142434540
Shinji can't even beat his own meat, he can't touch Herky.
Pray for H/A then
I love Saber Alter though. She should go insane with that legendary tragedy as a backstory. It fits her perfectly. She deserves pure despair in the end.
Since she had so much mana, why didn't Caster just Rule Break and summon more servants after she did Assassin?
>>142434450
Nasu made Fate on a D20 model. Notice how all the 'values' given in A,B,C++ etc can basically be turned into values from 1-20? Yeah.
So lets take that and start crunching numbers. Shirou is a not exactly the peak of human ability in modern ages but is still pretty good. He should have Rank D Str Agi and End. (I can prove THAT too). He then gets a bonus due to having Eye of the mind True which doubles his Str and AGI score. He also gets another bonus due to Berserker being blind which doubles his total combat effectiveness. Finally he hits 9 times due to NLBW. (You might want to recall the bit about Shirou going on about how he had all these unfair advantages and still lost).
>>142434520
>NLBW took off 8 lives
>My special technique is triple Excaliblast
>literally 3 Excalibasts
>it's its own separate technique so each Excaliblast goes through God Hand
>>142434404
>why can't the sword autist use lances
>>142434823
Lances and spears are just swords with long handles! A sword lover, much like a tit and ass lover, loves all shapes and sizes.
>>142434520
So after taking the NL, berseker completely regenerated in a matter of seconds without ever stopping his attack. And then Dog Hand failed to protect him from another slash from the axe sword which he just died to several times.
>>142434823
You retard. Archer can trace any melee weapon. A lance counts as a sword too.
>>142434823
Wasn't this just Avalon reacting to Excalibur?Shirou is the sheath for Saber' sword
>>142434718
>He should have Rank D Str Agi and End.
Except where E rank is 10 times the normal human?
>>142434223
>A rank NP is used to blow up Berserker
>that specific attack cannot be used again
>A rank spell is used to blow up Berserker
>that specific spell cannot be used again
>Saber with A rank strength slashes Berserker in graveyard battle
>slashes him several times and opens fresh wounds each time
>even though she's using Invisible Air to make the attacks
>>142434229
He didn't use Nine Lives twice, he attacked him 8 times as part of Nine Lives, killing him each time, and the 9th attack, a thrust to the heart, was the final attack of Nine Lives (hence the name, Nine Lives).
>>142434399
Only if the wielder has A rank strength, which bypasses the conceptual defense of Godhand because it's only rank B.
Saber under Rin for example can kill Berserker 12 times in a row with Invisible Air.
Beowulf could use just one of his swords and kill Berserker 12 times in a row.
>>142434987
>Shirou
>Normal
Also, he's been taking inherited experience from Archer which significantly amps him up.
Still typing next bit.
When you first saw Gilgamesh, were you blinded by his majesty? Paralyzed? Dumbstruck?
>>142435015
>It's something like...for example, if he is damaged by flames, after his wounds heal he'd gain +100 fire resistance or so.
Just face it, you're wrong.
>>142435015
>Only if the wielder has A rank strength, which bypasses the conceptual defense of Godhand because it's only rank B.
>Saber under Rin for example can kill Berserker 12 times in a row with Invisible Air.
>Beowulf could use just one of his swords and kill Berserker 12 times in a row.
You've made it too obvious now.
>>142435054
I was dumbstruck when I found out the "King of Kings" was a faggy looking teenager
>>142435015
>he attacked him 8 times as part of Nine Lives
>each time counts as part of technique so God Hand decides to let it pass
>>142435054
Mad that he killed Caster.
>>142435077
Even that was a retcon, because before he would not gain resistance but become completely immune.
>>142425899
Why does she dress like a slut and let everyone see her underwear? Is this what Emperors do?
>>142434718
>Shirou is a not exactly the peak of human ability in modern ages but is still pretty good. He should have Rank D Str Agi and End.
No, fuck no, you humongous retard. Rank E in any stat is 10 times the average human. Shirou might be above average in physical ability, but he's nowhere near even Rank E in any stat.
> He then gets a bonus due to having Eye of the mind True which doubles his Str and AGI score.
That is not how anything works and you haven't even read the fucking VN.
>>142434712
There's a finite number of Servant vessels per Grail War. That's why Zouken had to summon True Assassin out of Kojirou's body.
>>142435159
Otaku love it.
>>142435188
Archer and Saber had not been summoned yet.
>>142435157
Takeuchi points that out in the interview, and Nasu goes on to say it's basically resistance so powerful that it's practical immunity.
>>142435103
>>142435168
Whatever you say.
>>142434718
To translate those numbers into something meaningful, each rank in Str is about 5 damage and each Agi rank gives 5 attacks (Or in normal combat anyway). So E rank Agi and Str deals 25 damage and etc. End reduces damage by 5% by each level (A+++ is weird). Berserker is not actually in Madness Enhancement at this point so he has B+ Str and B Agi and End.
So Shirou starts with a piddly 100 damage. He can quadruple that thanks to Eye of the mind so it becomes 400. Then Berserker being blind turns that into 800. Finally 9 'attacks' turns that into a total of 7200. Reduce that by 20% and Berserker has to tank 5760 damage or thereabouts. Berserker for his part has a combat ability of 800 which reduces to 720.
>tfw you read the VN over six years ago and people are starting to accuse you of having never read it and it's becoming difficult to engage in discussions.
>>142435159
He was a pervert in life.
>>142435316
Go back and re-read it, I'm planning on doing it again soon because the details are starting to become hazy for me as well.
>>142435159
It's a leotard.
>>142435077
>let's take a quote out of context
If someone used a fire spell at A rank against Berserker, he'd die once. If they used the same spell, he'd be resistant to it.
If they used a different fire spell that is also A rank, he'd still die to it.
A rank strength means that you can attack someone a nigh-infinite number of different ways with that strength and kill them differently each time.
>>142435103
Calling bait doesn't ever help your case, you're just shitposting now.
>>142435136
Watch UBW TV if you can't even be assed to read the VN. Saber wounds Berserker again and again in the Graveyard.
>>142435316
Welcome to Type-Moon threads in 2016
>>142435270
Now the next part requires an understanding of how Nasu makes NP. NLBW in particular is part of a series of NP which all work on the same principle. Tsubame Gaeshi, Crane Wing and NLBW are all based on the same idea, they are all multiples of 3. The only thing that matters in these is that your combat effectiveness is higher than that of your opponent. It doesn't matter by how much, even 1 more point means you win and the other guy drops dead.
So Shirou gets the first kill at 5760 over 720. Shiryou keeps going at 5040 over 720. He can kill Berserker 8 times without a sweat save the last one where he is only capable of meeting Berserker equally. This is the point in the VN where he acknowledges if he could get in one more attack he'd win but Berserker is going to kill him first.
>>142435390
Literally 99% of everything we know about Nero was written by a dog of the Flavians. It's slander, and it's taken as fact. Nero was probably a pretty cool guy.His mom was a bitch and deserved everything she got
>>142435480
Except it isn't out of context at all.
>>142435513
So Shirou can be demonstrated to NOT have A+ str and that other guy is a dumbass.
I will now proceed to show that the math holds true in OTHER scenarios and is therefore not a one off.
>>142435428
It's so goddamn long though, and there is more type/moon shit I need to get through.
I'm a fucking NEET and I ain't got time for this shit, how do you guys do it?
>>142435480
Are the rewritten scenes in UBW TV a replacement for the VN?
>>142435270
Do you have any idea how retarded you are? Or are you just insane?
You can't try to equate it all to DnD logic because it doesn't translate at all. The rules are fundamentally different and all you're doing is making up numbers.
Not to mention, your rules are nonsensical even if it was just DnD.
Also, Eye of the Mind doesn't work that way, Berserker's stats are always without Mad Enhancement in the status profile, and the other guy being blind doesn't increase damage.
Literally stop posting.
>>142434906
Berserker was had already regenerated the damage from dying 8 times, but he only had one life left. Then he got stabbed with A rank strength. Getting stabbed with A rank strength isn't a special technique.
I opened the scene just for you.
Here's an example. Say there's a servant with B rank strength and a A rank noble phantasm which takes 6 lives off Berserker when used. They use their NP on Berserker. Berserker dies 6 times, and regenerates his body, which is still able to fight, but only has 6 lives left. The servant now uses the NP on Berserker again. God Hand nullifies it by 99% and Berserker takes essentially no damage and smashes the servant into the ground.
Here's another situation. Berserker is fighting against a servant with A rank strength and he gets wounded by the sword, but the wound isn't damaging enough to take a life from him. He regenerates the damage quickly. Of course, if Berserker stood still and let you stab him in the heart with A rank strength 12 times, he'd die, but he's unparalleled in combat so it's very difficult to actually kill him without using Noble Phantasms, which is where godhand is OP because most heroes aren't Gilgamesh and only have one or two.
>>142435670
The rewritten scenes are not a replacement for the VN, but they offer direct evidence of how Godhand works.
>>142435585
Lets start with Tsubame Gaeshi. Assassin has C Str, E End and A+ Agi. He has a nominal effectiveness of 750 strength and this is then reduced by B End of Saber to 600. Multiply by 3 and this becomes 1800.
Saber has A Str and B Agi. That is just 500 and reduced to 475 due to E End of Assassin. So how does Saber manage to overcome swallow swordsman?
First, she has Instinct A. This doubles her combat value to 950. Assassin's swords is also bent out of shape so that gives her another double bonus. Saber thus scrapes by on 1900>1800.
>>142435795
To add to this, Assassin's sword is bent out of shape because it's not a real NP. This is important in the next bit.
>>142435054
NO
>>142435257
Basically just means that if there's an anti-unit NP that does infinite damage but for some reason can only take off one life, it can be used 12 times.
>>142435795
>>142435959
Lets go onto Crane Wing. Eye of the Mind True is not relevant here as it only 'works' on opponents that are faster and stronger. Saber Alter is slow as shit so it doesn't matter here. Shirou is very straightforward here, 100 multiplied by 6. Reduce that by 25% and we get a result of 450. Saber Alter has A Str and D Agi so she gets 250, doubled with Instinct and reduced by 10% for 450. Same as Shirou.
The key point here is that Saber has Instinct B. That singular fact allows Shirou to pull off the win here. I don't actually know how much difference it makes, insufficient information, but Shirou pulls it off by the smallest of margins.
Now about that bit with 'real' and 'fake' NPs. NLBW is done with a 'fake' NP because as nasty as Berserker's sword is, it isn't a real NP technically. Shirou would get a 9x multiplier so he would actually have a combat value of 675. But Saber Alter now regains the advantage that Saber has against Assassin, namely that a real NP is better than a fake. This gives her a total of 900 alowing her to beat Shirou silly.
>>142435530
This. Even some of the critics after he died had to acknowledge that he did a good job for the citizens of the empire. He was just willing to piss off the senate to do it, and liked to be extravagant, which the people loved anyway. The fact there was like 5 different uprisings after his death and fear of an invasion from Persia for retribution over his death says a ton even with all the slander written.
Of course some things can't be denied, like the persecution of the Christians. But even then that's more of something that's viewed as terrible after the fact. Seemed like a good idea at the time.
>>142436244
I don't think you can quantify Shirou's combat using DnD math because of how he copies strength and experience from weapons
>>142436754
He doesn't copy strength. What did I just say?
>>142436754
basically, powerlevels are bullshit.
>>142436820
since you clearly haven't read the VN, at least fucking read the picture in
>>142435764
>>142435316
>tfw you can no longer keep up with Fate discussions due to the sheer amount of new content released, i.e. all the Fate spinoffs
I don't even know what's happening anymore.
>>142436873
Yes. Shirou at that point had the strength of Berserker but due to other factors. He doesn't actually copy the strength into the weapon itself.
I didn't see Shirou beating Gil silly with all manner of weaponry or possessing Saber strength in Fate.
>>142437073
What were the other factors? Archer does not have the strength of Berserker. Unless you're still trying to argue that having better instinct against a blind opponent quadruples for force behind your blows.
>>142437144
>for foce
*the force
>>142436883
Just watch Prisma Illya and fap.
>>142437073
Are you serious?
Tracing literally traces the abilities of the wielder, from skill to strength, so that Shirou can reproduce everything about the sword including how it is wielded.
Caliburn only reproduced Saber's abilities and Gil already completely trashed Saber in Fate. Why would Shirou tracing that allow him to beat someone who completely toyed with Saber with Excalibur?
>>142437210
I've seen it, the SOL bits are great. Not a fan of the action though, it feels like a shitty mash-up of elements from the main Fate series.
>>142427264
Original Arturia is the male one in Protoype!
>>142437144
Yes.
I mean, that's what breaks the whole process for you? All the other ridiculous bullshit in the universe and abilities and NPs and etc. But we break out that DnD and that's the limit?
>>142437240
So which Saber does he get his abilities from? Shirou Saber? Rin Saber? Kerry Saber? Sakura Saber? Original Saber?
>>142437291
>Prototype
>original
>People still refuse to understand the difference between Prototype and Old Fate
>>142436883
Solomon BTFO everyone. That's what happened.
>>142424295
Fate route remake with Last Episode eventually.
I believe.
>>142437326
>But we break out that DnD and that's the limit?
Everything you posted has nothing to do with DnD. You literally just made shit up.
>So which Saber does he get his abilities from?
The Saber that wielded Caliburn.
>>142437597
So why didn't he completely thrash Gil?
>>142437326
I'm just saying that applying DnD math to a variable, unknown value is nonsensical. We don't know enough about the full capabilities of Shirou's tracing in regards to how faithfull he recreates the experience and techniques of the original wielder, and how that applies in a battle.
Also in regards to God Hand, you can't simply place numerical values and say that those are equal to A rank and should pierce.
Could you use DnD math to simulate a hypothetical engagement between Lancer with no Gae Bolg and Fake Assassin? Sure. Could you do it in regards to Shirou vs Berserker? No.
>>142437662
Hmm?
I'm saying Berserker didn't have God Hand. I'm arguing against that. Shirou doesn't copy the strength of the wielder as I see it.
I'll allow that Shirou is something of an anomaly but I've found no reason to believe my particular belief is incorrect.
>>142437650
Why would he? Not only was the Saber that wielded Caliburn young and not even in her prime in skill or stats yet, Gilgamesh had the prototype of Caliburn that automatically trumped it regardless. Even if Saber had been EX rank in every stat at that point in her life, Gram would have broken Caliburn literally every time the swords clashed.
>>142437776
>no reason to believe
>>142435764
In other words, you're just enjoying your autistic fucking headcanon and refuse to accept the plain reality of what was written in the fucking VN. Read the VN.
>>142437662
>Could you use DnD math to simulate a hypothetical engagement between Lancer with no Gae Bolg and Fake Assassin?
No, you couldn't, because there's no way to account for things like feints, the length of each of their weapons, the durability of each of their weapons, the height advantage, the difference in stats, Assassin's Eye of the Mind and Knowledge of Respect and Harmony and so on.
Trying to numerize any hypothetical battle in Fate is fucking retarded.
>>142437808
Given Saber is better than Gil even in a servant container and would therefore be even stronger in reality even allowing for a younger age, and I'll point out that is barely relevant with regards to Saber plus she preferred Caliburn, then Shirou should have at least had an equal fighting chance against Gil even if Gram is older. It's not like Caliburn shattered instantly.
>>142437936
You think Nasu actually gives two shits about most of those? Fate is incredibly simple and barebones.
>>142438012
>be even stronger in reality even allowing for a younger age
If you'd read the VN, you'd know that Saber under Rin is Saber at the height of her power during life. Young Saber would not have had those stats or that level of skill.
>then Shirou should have at least had an equal fighting chance against Gil even if Gram is older.
Fuck no? The power of a Servant isn't in their stats or their skill, it's in the Noble Phantasm they possess. Never have stats been relevant when it comes down to a conceptual battle between Noble Phantasms.
>You think Nasu actually gives two shits about most of those?
Yeah, actually, since he brings up all of those things when Saber fights Fake Assassin. Saber can't try to feint because Assassin sees right through it like he sees through Invisible Air. Saber can't understand Fake Assassin's fighting style because of his skills, so she can't figure out a way to trip him up. With the height advantage and the length of his sword that is on par with a spear, she can't even get close enough to land any strikes without him repelling her. She can't advance because he steps back, and she can't retreat because he steps forward.
In the second battle, Assassin's sword gets bent because he had to block an attack of opportunity when he steps down to be on the same level of elevation as Saber so he can use the full Tsubame Gaeshi. Her strength thanks to Prana Burst is so high under Rin that his sword can't even properly endure a single direct impact. When he uses Tsubame Gaeshi, the only reason she survives both times is thanks to her Instincts finding a way out of it.
Your attempt at boiling all those factors down to numbers is fruitless and foolish because you are arbitrarily assigning values to various factors but more importantly because your facts are fucking wrong like Shirou having D rank stats.
>>142438358
Exactly
Applying DnD math and treating it as fact is ridiculous.
>>142438358
> Saber under Rin is Saber at the height of her power during life
No Servant is ever at the level of their power in life because of the limitations of the Servant container. Rin Saber is merely the closest Saber has gotten under any Master, not actually equivalent.
Saber doesn't exactly grow older. She just Prana Bursts everything.
> The power of a Servant isn't in their stats or their skill
Both matter especially when you're just beating on each other. Gil backs off in UBW while he stood his ground in Fate.
>Yeah, actually
Saber was always able to retreat. She couldn't advance.
Yes I know about those points on Saber's Strength and Instinct, I refer to them above.
And the Height advantage? I can give a number to that as well, +1 to Str rank.
>>142437936
You can account for a little of those, we know that Fake Assassin's sword is 2 meters long, as is Gae Bolg. Gae Bolg is more durable, Cu has better stats but Assassin can read that with EotM A. It's still a pointless argument but the point I was trying to make is that if you wanted to bust out the DnD math, don't rely on a blinded grail corrupted berserker distracted by illya versus HF Shirou tracing a sword and applying the experience and technique of the wielder because the values on those numbers are unknown, before you even get to shit like feints, stance, height, highground, instinct, etc.
>>142438756
>arbitrarily assigning values to various factors
Cool stuff man!
>>142426135
Ufo is more than likely trying to get their hands on it to remake it.
>>142439022
Assassin was able to fight off Berserker and prevent him from advancing. A+ rank should beat C rank.
Caster reduces that to B+ due to her magic and Assassin gets plus one because he has the high ground. B+ is still better than B except that the plus modifier only kicks in during particular situations.
But by all means, if you have a better idea on how Assassin was able to hold back Berserker then please say.
>>142438756
>Rin Saber is merely the closest Saber has gotten under any Master, not actually equivalent.
How many times do I need to say this? Read the fucking VN. It's explicitly stated that under Rin, she is as powerful as she was in life. Not all Heroic Spirits are incapable of manifesting their true stats under the Servant system. King Arthur happens to be one who can.
>Saber doesn't exactly grow older. She just Prana Bursts everything.
She became more skilled and more experienced throughout her life. If you'd read Arthurian legend, you'd know she loses Caliburn extremely early on, only just after she becomes king, because she violates one of the principles of chivalry and it breaks as a result.
>Both matter especially when you're just beating on each other.
They very well do not. Gil proved that when he manhandled Arturia mere moments before just by pulling out swords of fire and ice that ruined her shit even though she should have beaten him with ease. Then she tries Excalibur, and he beats that down with Ea. Concepts and Noble Phantasms will always trump things like stats and skill. Arturia herself is the most powerful of the Round Table not because of skill or stats, since Gawain beats her in stats and Lancelot beats her in skill, but because her sword is just that good.
>Gil backs off in UBW while he stood his ground in Fate.
Shirou can trace Arturia's physical strength she had when wielding Caliburn and her swordsmanship, but he sure as hell can't trace her personal skills. Arturia's personal skills are the main reason why she's so powerful.
>Saber was always able to retreat.
No, she couldn't. Assassin matched any movement she tried to make. Explicitly stated in the VN.
>>142438959
>You can account for a little of those
Literally you cannot because, even if Nasu does have a personal system for deciding battles, we don't know the core rules of it, nor the values he assigns to anything.
>>142439167
I never said it wasn't retarded man, I'm a different anon, I'm just saying that this DnD guy started his whole argument off of NLBW which isn't a fight where you can attempt to apply DnD math to.
>>142439331
Just to clarify - You can attempt to apply DnD math to some fights in Fate, but that doesn't mean you'll be correct, but if you try to apply it to situations similar to NBLW it just doesn't compute.
>>142436883
FSN, FHA and FZ are the only ones that matter
The rest wo taberu
>>142439167
>Assassin was able to fight off Berserker and prevent him from advancing
All he did was stall him until Ilya got bored and they left.
>A+ rank should beat C rank. Caster reduces that to B+ due to her magic and Assassin gets plus one because he has the high ground.
I see where the core of your misconception is at. Strength isn't a measure of overall battle power. It's a measurement of actual physical strength and in turn how much damage that Servant inflicts.
Stop trying to assign values to everything and make it an equation. No, using letters is not better.
>>142439331
>It's explicitly stated that under Rin
I remember that as she gets close. Is it stated within the church or later on?
>She became more skilled and more experienced throughout her life
Sure but that doesn't translate to more Strength does it?
>Shirou can trace Arturia's physical strength she had when wielding Caliburn and her swordsmanship.
I thought he got her experience or does that not count as skill now?
And I'm talking about Gil backing off from Saber. He fights Saber in Fate but when she gets into the temple in UBW he retreats. The only difference is that Saber has better stats in UBW.
>No, she couldn't.
I don't remember Assassin chasing her down and whacking her.
>>142439578
Fighting with a height advantage does allow extra strength into your attacks you know? Like, not even inside a fictional universe, that's an actual thing.
>>142439335
>>142439423
I already stated my views on that matter. I'm not about to change them so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
>>142439751
> Is it stated within the church or later on?
It's right after Rin contracts with her and she kicks Archer's ass.
>Sure but that doesn't translate to more Strength does it?
Strength as physical ability? No. Strength as in overall battle power? 100% yes. Gilgamesh has no issue matching Shirou even when he uses Saber's skill and strength.
>I thought he got her experience or does that not count as skill now?
Experience is not a personal skill. Personal Skills for Saber are: Charisma, Prana Burst, and Instinct. Read the VN.
>He fights Saber in Fate but when she gets into the temple in UBW he retreats.
Gilgamesh never met her while she was in the temple. Do you mean the Einzbern castle, post Shirou vs Archer? He retreated there because he really wasn't in the mood to fight at the time (in the anime his murderboner was ruined by falling debris).
>I don't remember Assassin chasing her down and whacking her.
He didn't, all he did was step forward if she stepped back. Assassin constantly pressured her and kept her from gathering herself.
>Fighting with a height advantage does allow extra strength into your attacks you know?
But that's not the way you've been using strength at all. You try to use it as a blanket measure of a Servant's overall battle power when that's completely wrong. Strength has always been physical strength.
>>142437447
I'd buy the BluRays.Twice.
Nero!
>>142439814
I don't think you understand. I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm agreeing with you. We both agree that DnD math is not applicable. My only point was that there are situations that are even less applicable for it, which is what the other guy based his whole "explanation" from.
>>142440032
>It's right after Rin contracts with her and she kicks Archer's ass.
I can't find it. There's a lot of stuff about how she's stronger than ever before and Archer couldn't hope to beat her but nothing about her there and her actual self.
>Experience is not a personal skill
That was a jab at how someone earlier said he got experience and strength from making the weapons which ought to translate into skill in combat etc.
>Gilgamesh never met her while she was in the temple
You go read the VN.
>He didn't, all he did was step forward if she stepped back.
That just falls into the basic combat stats within my view. I don't perceive of anything particularly complex in Nasu's world.
>But that's not the way you've been using strength at all.
I did say total combat strength is a combination of Str, Agi and End. They also have secondary values such as movement speed etc.
HF>UBW>FATE
SAKURA>RIN>SABER
DEBATE ME CHRISTIANS
>>142440412
I AM the other guy.
And I didn't actually base it on that.
I think I started it with Rider vs Saber. It then expanded to explaining literally everything in FSN and FZ.
MALE EXTRA MC VS FEMALE EXTRA MC!
>>142440511
Started up here
>>142433843
I'm glad we both completely lost track of what we were talking about, gosh I sure love arguing semantics and even though I think your logic is flawed I still find it fascinating. Great sport, chap.
>>142440608
Male obviously. It's the only way he can impregnate Nero.
>Another Fate thread has already devolved to powerlevel bullshit
I was kind of hoping we could have a nice HF anticipation thread. What are /a/nons especially looking forward to in the movies? Where do you think they'll end?
I'd imagine the first will end with Saber dying and the second will end with Shirou getting his arm blown off.
>>142439331
>Read the fucking VN. It's explicitly stated that under Rin, she is as powerful as she was in life.
Why bother taking this statement seriously when Nasu revamped and retconned all in FSN already.
>>142424295
i dont see the problem here
>>142440494
Sakura's a passive aggresive genuinely sadistic and cruel doormat.
>>142440685
Yeah I jumped into the whole thing here
>>142434280
Anyway
>>142440769
I just want Crane Wing as an Ova. It's one of Shirou's best moments in the whole series.
>>142435530
A Heroic Spirit, in most cases, is defined more by their legend than their actual existence. Regardless of the accuracy, Nero's legacy is what it is.
>>142440769
I'm hoping they'll nail the scene where Sakura messes up her cooking but doesn't even notice because she's struggling to pick up her chopsticks. Extremely curious how they're going to handle Nine Lives Blade Works as well.
I hope there are lots of original scenes that make up for what they'd have to inevitably skip. I'd be fine with just an expanded epilogue though as the one we have needs work.
Kajiura working on the soundtrack excites me too since I loved her work on Madoka and KNK.
Also Sakura's titties getting animated.
>>142440769
I'm hoping for lots of SENPAI
Blood sucking or fade to black?
>>142424448
I want Spark Liner High followed by Shirou vs Kirei fight and then just the normal end.
Shirou surpasses his limit, Kirei and Saber die honorably and Sakura suffers for the rest of her life.
>>142441303
100% blood sucking, anyone expecting otherwise is delusional.
>>142440769
Jesus anon, do you realize how fucking much that leaves for the 3rd movie? It'll be a tight fight in 2 hours with just the final 2 days left. Shirou's arm will be early-mid 2nd movie at most.
>>142441303
Both.
I'm looking forward to it.
>>142440769
I just want to be physically sickened by the effects of projection, is that too much to ask?
>>142441586
Considering it was already in UBW to some degree, no. In fact, you should ask for more.
>>142441397
I was going off of what would be good stopping points, so each movie could end with a good fight scene, as is tradition. Saber vs the shadow and true assassin would be a good first ending, and Archer and Berserker vs everyone would be a good fight to end the second movie. I can't think of what other good hype moments you could end the movies at.
Sakura vs Gilgamesh is the only "fight" that comes to mind, but it's boring as fuck and I honestly can't remember what day it's on.
>>142441337
But then Rider would never get her chance to shine
>>142442513
Sakura's mindbreak is a good point to end the second movie, and leaves adequate space for the 3rd to breath.
>>142440828
>passive aggressive
>genuinely sadistic and cruel
>doormat
contradictory statements
Hnnnnng why is Saber so pretty in everything she appears in?
>>142424295
>thumbnail
>>142443201
You can be passively cruel and sadistic, the fuck are you talking about? It entails being a complete bitch when nobody's looking, and shit like this.
>>142443302
The inevitable result of being a best
>>142437447
SEIBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
saber
is a labor
>tfw proper Fate route never
And UBW getting a bad adaptation makes things worse.
HF better be a piece of shit too, or I'll be mad as fuck.
>>142434540
Prototype Angra Mainyu must be strong enough to defeat Heracles after being complete.
>>142443560
>when nobody's looking
So basically, thought crimes. Okay.
>>142443860
Are people really whining about UBW? It was perfectly fine. Literally the only bad partof the adaptation was the very end of the Shirou/Archer fight.
Everything else was great. Unless you don't like UBW itself, I don't see what's wrong with the adaptation.
>>142444026
That she later tries to actually make happen.
Did I trigger a wormfag again? Stay permanently butthurt that your waifu is canonically cruel and selfish. And no, it's not an unreliable narrator.
>>142444033
>Literally the only bad partof the adaptation was the very end of the Shirou/Archer fight.
>>142444033
Nothing made by Miura will ever be good.
>>142443860
>And UBW getting a bad adaptation makes things worse.
I wish this joke would stop. The UBW anime was fucking incredible. What more did you want!?
>>142445483
>The UBW anime was fucking incredible.
bruh...
>>142445483
>The UBW anime was fucking incredible.
>>142436883
>tfw tried to keep up
>play FGO
>no idea what's going on
>tfw everyone is discussing is to the moon and back
>how dare you. you ruined ubw.
>OOO god noo....
>Complete trash.
>So he is gonna be in the storyboard for Heaven's Feel this time. Well, anything is better than him directing for this trilogy.
>Obligatory reminder that this dude is why we can't have nice things. Stay away from any sort of position in anime production, Miura. I am sure Japan is in need of janitors. That is a better fit for you.
http://myanimelist.net/people/12167/Takahiro_Miura
>>142424295
>depressed
>Fate/shit
sasuga fate/kids lele
>>142445830
Too deep for you?
>>142424295
Don't be depressed anon, because the last animated Saber you'll see will be Alter getting her Ekusucaribah wrecked by Bellerophon and Rho Aias.
>>142445448
Actually Miura is The Best Director. I'm so sorry you can't appreciate UBWKino.
>>142445513
>>142445545
>>142445813
And not a single valid criticism was made. UBW anime was a pretty spot on adaptation.
>>142445813
MALspergs are literally cancer, and their king, CookingPriest, is the sheer lord of autism.
>>142446969
This.
>>142445240
What? What else did you have issue with? Unless you bleed anally about the fact that they fought inside UBW, what was your problem? And that choice made perfect sense in the first place. You can't have a 20 minute-long duel in the same flat castle room animated, it only works in text. The setting gets boring after a while, and Archer's UBW was thematically fitting for the scene. Not to mention ending it inside UBW added room for that nice visual metaphor when Shirou starts to part the clouds.
So unless you're spurging about how much mana Archer used or the stupid giant swords he fired, I don't see any real problems.
>>142445448
When will people get over KnK 6?
I'll admit I'm salty he did a terrible job with Tales of Symphonia, but that never could've been good in the first place, no matter who directed it.
>>142445875
How can anyone not ship this?
>>142448715
>Not to mention ending it inside UBW added room for that nice visual metaphor when Shirou starts to part the clouds.
One of the cool things about that scene is that if you pay attention, not only do the clouds part, but the rust and decay on the sword lying in UBW goes away.
It's a cool bit of attention to detail.
>>142444033
If you look at it as a standalone anime it's okay, with a kinda crappy story but nice visuals.
If you look at it as an adaptation that someone could watch in place of the VN, it falls quite short.
If you look at it as an adaptation targeted towards people who have already read the VN, it's pretty good, seeing as you've already experienced Shirou's internal monologues and ideals, and can understand the injuries that Avalon heals through
>>142448947
In mylimited RLexperience many girls rage about Saber's soft moments and can't see past Shirou's bouts of clunky protag behavior, while guys drop "le FLAT character :^)" memes and generally turn out to be anime secondaries (at best) who can't see Saber being anything other than an older caretaker figure.
Both groups have a 50/50 tendency to verbally jerk off to Nero, and all fail to acknowledge any of Shirou and Saber's poetic-grade chemistry.
So it goes when the chance for enlightenment requires a 40 hour investment of sustained reading.
>>142449721
UBW is not intended in anyway to replace the VN. Nor is it even intended to be an introduction to FSN as a whole as a stand alone anime.
It's an adaptation of Unlimited Blade Works. That's in the title. It has no need to explain things like Avalon, because that's not part of Unlimited Blade Works.
You want the explanation? Go read the VN. Or watch the 2006 anime,. Or read the manga. Or watch Fate/Zero. Or read Fate/Zero.
There are countless options that cover you, and it's assumed you know the answer.
If you go into a TV show at the second season, do you blame the TV show for not spoonfeeding you all the knowledge? Or what about a sequel to a movie? Or a book. It assumes you know this stuff.
Are you gonna blame Heaven's Feel for not answering things like what the fuck Rule Breaker is, even though it's pivotal to the climax of the narrative? Hell, without experiencing UBW, it looks like a complete ass pull.
>>142449721
Finally, someone who gets it
I felt that UBW was more like a anime made for the TypeMoon fans, rather than the average /a/ user
>>142449986
It's intended for those who know the franchise, that's for certain.
As just a purely anime watcher, there should still be a 24-50 episode gating that you have to go through to watch UBW.
You need the story of Fate first, but that's available. They made an anime out of it, so you can watch it. There are also some connections to the recent Fate/Zero anime added in UBW, so it's not a terrible idea to watch that either.
But it's not a standalone work. That itself isn't really an issue, though.
If you went to watch Empire Strikes Back without any sort of Star Wars knowledge prior to it, it just would leave you confused, even though it's generally considered a well done movie.
>>142450092
Yeah, but there are a lot of dumbass claiming that the UBW has a shitty story because they didn't understand everything.
>>142425899
I want to bully red
>>142440443
>I can't find it.
>Violent wind rages.
>She must have gotten back her true powers by obtaining a true Master.
>Saber is unlike anything she was before.
Think that's as close as it gets.
>>142450147
The thing that really should be explained to those people is that UBW shouldn't be watched first.
Read the VN, watch the 2006 anime, but they basically need to experience the Fate route before going in, because that's the way UBW was written, with taking place after Fate in mind.
If they end up not watching to read the VN, or watch the 2006 anime, then really that's on them. An author, or a director, or a creator of any sort can't exactly stop a person from experiencing their story out of order. Only take it on good faith that they go through it as intended.
>>142424295
i really enjoyed the fate/stay night anime and i like all the other character designs i seealthough i couldn't even finish fate/zero, it was really unappealing
how do i into Fate?
>>142450262
You can read the VN. It covers information a lot of the various anime couldn't go super in depth into.
There are also tons of spin offs that take the grail concept, and characters in the stories, in new and different directions.
>>142433620
>why didn't archer project this or that to win the war with ease
These are called plotholes, dear Anon. Maybe you could fanfic that Archer was only interested in killig Shirou and purposefully basically never killed other servants if it helps you like this trainwreck more.
>>142450262
>Reader way
Read the VN, then Hollow Ataraxia. All other works are spin-offs can can be read/watched/played in any order.
>Viewer way
Watch 2006, then UBW, then HF when it comes out. If you want watch Zero, The VN / HA will provide more details and character development if you want it but you have the gist of it.
>Secondary way
Watch F/Z and nothing else, complain about how immature the rest of the franchise is.
>>142435015
>Saber with A rank strength slashes Berserker in graveyard battle
>slashes him several times and opens fresh wounds each time
>even though she's using Invisible Air to make the attacks
God Hand makes him "immune" after an ability/weapon KILLS him, not after every time he gets damaged by something. You really don't know how it works.
>>142450442
>Watch 2006, then UBW
Except the anime UBW assumes you've watched F/Z. 2006 anime is completely ignored.
>>142450437
But that's pretty much true though.
>>142450531
It assumes you know the story of Fate. It makes direct connections to Fate/Zero because Ufotable animated Fate/Zero, so why the hell not when it's appropriate?
It ignores the 2006 series in the same way the VN UBW ignores the existence of the Fate route. Two separate timelines.
>>142450531
I don't think anyone should touch Zero without knowing the plot of HF. At least 2006 gives you mostly the same information the Fate route in the VN does.
>>142450240
This part was so ugly and unimpactful in the anime.
>>142440494
i'm unreligious so you're good
>>142436244
Bullshit or not, I applaud your work
>>142450723
I don't see how this is ugly at all.
Would you prefer a sentai morphing sequence? That's basically what DEEN did.
>>142424448
SLH is overrated shit. Rider vs Saber will be x100 times better.
>>142451038
It felt very underwhelming. The not so great effects as it zooms out to a wide shot and slowly continues zooming out as it shows Archer's and Shirou's backs as they stiffly stand there, and then cutting to a obscured Saber. It's not the "holy shit, Saber is about to kick some ass" moment it should've been. Maybe because they tried to be as different from DEEN's version as possible? Dunno.
>>142451164
Narrative-wise though, Saber doesn't exactly go to kick ass. She pushes Archer to a wall, he summons UBW, and then it's Shirou who does the work.
It's not exactly there's a particular reason to make a big build up over it.
>>142424295
That's right. Rider will finally take the hot spot. Saberfags have had enough for these past 12 years. Eat it.
>>142451262
Rider doesn't really do much in HF overall.
>>142451219
>It's not exactly there's a particular reason to make a big build up over it.
That would make the slow motion and then zoom out counter-inututive then. It was a pretty big deal despite Saber not exactly killing Archer or whatever. Clearly a moment to get excited about as it's depicted in the VN and the anime dropped the ball. Remember, this is also after Saber spent quite some time being Caster's fuck toy and powerless.
>>142451303
Well there's different levels of excitement and anticipation to take into consideration. It's a triumphant moment, yeah, but in the big scheme of things, is it really like, appropriate for lightning and grandiose chanting music?
I just watched the the scene in the movie, and I find it interesting that I think it's actually longer there than in the TV anime.
In the compact, 'we're stretched for time as is' movie, they give more of a show for Saber powering up, rather than the countless other things they could have dedicated their time to.
>>142449908
I wasn't criticising it, though it does have many flaws in its adaptation, but that's a given. I was just stating why there's a contrast of people who think it's shit and people who think it's good.
>>142451550
I think a lot of people though criticize it for things it never was aiming to accomplish.
Obviously there are those who complain that it's not Fate/Zero 2, but there are also folks who get bothered or disappointed that it didn't merge in or explain other elements that different routes did, which I find particularly bothersome.
People bring up Avalon, or they should have done more the less utilized servants, or think Kirei should have died differently. I'm just giving examples.
None of these were in Unlimited Blade Works in the first place though, and given that it's the title of the show itself, I don't think following through with these expected plot points is a fault on its end.
>>142424295
Why did Saber go full edgelord again, I forget.
>>142452914
Corrupted/partially mindbroken by Angra Mainyu and placed under the control of Sakura.
Anyone have a list of HF trailers or Vita openings, anything animated from hf
>>142430471
>>Shaft is literally making a Fate Extra anime
oh good, I came prepared then.
