>The Japanese fandom is like the English fandom in the sense that the majority of internet commentary about this trend is snarky and negative, but a significant number of people are hooked on these stories nevertheless.
>the blogger Umetsubame claims that others look down on narou stories because they think that people should work hard in order to succeed. Yet in real life, lots of people try hard but fail to succeed, while others do nothing and succeed anyway. At this point, Nobuo Kawakami, the Representative Director of Dwango, chimes in to say: “In fact, the idea that if you try hard you will (definitely) succeed is more of a fantasy.”
>If it’s taken as a given that people cheat their way to the top in society, then in order for a narou protagonist to succeed, he needs to be placed into a world where his own particular skills can be used as cheats. It’s no surprise, then, that the vast majority of isekai stories are based on JRPG-inspired worlds, particularly the pseudo-medieval settings of the Dragon Quest series and the early Final Fantasy games.
>the underlying assumption that only people who know how to cheat the system can succeed. Umetsubame explained this cynicism is a result of the current social climate. Japan is past its economic bubble, there is no job security for young people, and in order to get hired you need to bury your individuality. Instead of pathologising narou fans, he points to society’s arbitrary standards of success as the underlying problem. You can work and work and work, but still be laid off your job. Narou stories function not only as escapist fiction, but also as an affirmation of this particular worldview.
>Kawakami points to the manga Ressentiment as a literary-style work that presents a harsh truth for otaku. Ironically, otaku don’t support it because “nobody wants to know the truth
https://frogkun.com/2016/05/05/whats-the-appeal-of-those-stuck-in-another-world-fantasies-some-japanese-bloggers-explain/
If only the Japanese stopped paying money for the shit they are tired of
>>142163841
Casuals will spend their money on whatever trash they like.
too bad it's still shit though
I thought the problem was that they all devolved into haremshit
>>142163663
I never really minded the genre as a whole, only that it's fucking everywhere and most iterations don't put a lot of effort into it. There are some gems in that genre though, and this explanation is actually pretty solid. I understand the desire for something more grounded after the "JUST WORK HARD LOL" shonen boom of a decade ago.
>>142163953
No wonder Naruto turned out to be Ninja Jesus. People hate hard work.
>>142163997
>People hate hard work.
Who doesn't?
As some old duck with a huge money bin once allegedly said, you ought to work smarter, not harder.
>>142164197
I don't have a problem with hard work.
Actually i like hard work.
The problem is just that working hard gets you nowhere.
Picaresque Stories existed since the 15th century, and they were much more nuanced than simple "I'm level 100 you can't do shit."
Transportation to a fantasy world stories is not a Japanese-exclusive phenomenon.
>>142163953
Except it's a shitty excuse
Just as it's hard to work your way to the top, it's hard to cheat your way to the top too
The heroes of these "trapped in another world" stories rarely if ever think of a clever plan to win, they usually just are born with a hax skill that gives them power.
Like, OP's picture, "Shield Hero" - the protag of that story is so powerful because he's the only one who read the instruction manual.
No, really.
I'm all for cheating, but it should be good logical cheating. Douglas Adams says no one works harder than someone trying to avoid work.
![Alice_par_John_Tenniel_02[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/7Js7qsv.png "Alice_par_John_Tenniel_02[1].png")
>>142164365
Nor new.
>>142163663
I'm just starting to get into the genre but I actually enjoy it to some extent. Back when I was new to anime I watched high school settings because I longed for a reality where school was a haven filled with interesting people and had a joyous group of friends.
Now that I'm a working adult, I long for a reality where I can do shit on my own terms, and winning or losing are a direct result of my actions with the option to fail still being present. That's what this shit provides for me. In Konosuba the mc eats shit for a good portion of the story despite his efforts, but he wins due to his drive. The series never takes losing out of the equation and it's better for it.
Also hail Aqua.
>>142164433
Alice isn't as good a fit as Narnia since she doesn't become a hero, she just stumbles around a bunch of absurdities before going home.
>>142164247
>The problem is just that working hard gets you nowhere.
You see this problem a lot in America too. Americans are probably the biggest believers in the "Hard work = Success" ideology, and it's becoming increasingly evident to every one that is not the case. I actually think this is part of the reason the Trump is so popular currently, tons of Americans are working hard and doing things the way they're suppose to, but not getting the end results they want, which is creating resentment in the system.
In short: Make efforts, Get talents.
>>142163663
Too real for me.
>>142164365
That came out over a decade ago?
>>142164498
Which is weird, since Trump openly admits that he himself is no more skilled or hard working, he just was born into a rich family to begin with.
>>142164577
People, as usual, just want to get tricked into something they don't really believe.
Like religion.
>>142163663
>people like vidya
>grow up to be adults
>write books about what they like
>it's popular since readers are the same base
>also waifus
>more people do it since it's easy cash as long as the waifu is nice and story holds up
wooow
alternative explanation
>feel so shitty you empathise with "die and wake up in a better world"
>>142164197
Reading Taekwondo manwha:
Protag trains really really really hard to get to entry level super human
Protag then stops progressing and needs to train more effective/smarter/work on his flaws in order to go towards a superior superhuman
80s manga and some seinen is about some dude who is very strong, and need to fight others on his level.
Shounen has generally been about somebody who is entry level, in a sea of beginners, who progresses ahead of everyone.
Japan don't like hard work or smart work now. Shame. Its cool
>>142164635
People want to live in a fantasy. Too bad this is reality.
>>142163953
>>142164424
This, in reality cheating itself require a different kind of hardwork that happen behind the scene and most people never see that, not to mention the severe punishment when the act of cheating backfire on yourself.
>>142164498
>>142164247
Agreed. You have to have some sort of wit if you want to make any significant progress. That's with anything.
It's like grinding in a jrpg but without any sort of aim in mind.
>>142164644
>now
Fuck are you talking about? Stop making broad ass generalizations faggot.
>>142164577
>>142164635
>>142164668
Ugh, gag me. I can feel the smug leaking through my screen.
>>142164751
You aren't living your life correctly, anon. Fix it.
>>142164424
>Just as it's hard to work your way to the top, it's hard to cheat your way to the top too
I think the (pessimistic) idea behind it isn't per se about hard work (though not that people who cheat the system don't work hard), but that it's a lot about such things as inherrent talent, who you know, where you studied etc. This is why the losers come out ahead in "trapped in MMORPG" anime: they've played those games their entire lives. When they start out at level 1, just like everyone else, they already have an "unfair" advantage. I know it's not a popular show 'round these here parts, but the Kirito had such an advantage in SAO because he was a beta tester. Momonga had an advantage in Overlord because by the time the world started "living", he had already spent years grinding his character to perfection.
It's a way to at the same time have the protagonist be an identifiable loser AND give him an unfair advantage. If your example of Shield Hero is true, then that's just a retarded story though. Unless it's a comedy show.
>>142164365
The difference is that these stories in the West are more for exploring fantastic new worlds and perhaps grow wiser from the experience and stuff. And they're really rarely about being reincarnated with ultrasuperhaXXorpowers that makes everything easier for the protagonist.
But now that I think about it, John Carter of Mars might fit that model more. You have an old confederate dude being transported to Mars, where it turns out that he is superstrong because of Earth's higher gravity, he gets to become pal with funky four-armed big green martians, fucks the hottest red martian princess around who will stay really really hot for several hundreds of years, everyone is practically nekkid and well-endowed, and all his opponents are kinda dumb or hindered by silly traditions that greatly limit their effective battle strength despite having powerful guns and laser cannons and flying airships.
>>142164424
This.
I don't like these novels not because the hero doesn't "work hard", but because the hero doesn't "work smart" either.
It's pure wish fulfillment. It's not an indictment of society. Discontent can explain the demand for these LNs, but don't go and say they're making any meaningful statements
>>142164820
I mean, sure. Inherent talent is a thing. It's not the only thing. And even in something you're talented in, you still need to work.
>all the Japanese webnovels are about being reincarnated into another world where your skills let you cheat to win, and this means Japanese society sucks and you can only get ahead by cheating
So what does it say about the Chinese that all the Chinese webnovels are xianxia shit about energy cultivation in caves with magic pills for decades to train themselves into immortality by sitting crosslegged and doing nothing, where all disagreements are solved with a fight to the death which is really easy to get into because everyone is an asshole to each other?
>>142164820
People who don't want to work hard make excuses like talent and other bullshit. It's all bullshit. You have to work if you want to make it. It's hard and everyone who made has done it. But those people want to be praised for doing nothing. They want to stay in their comfort zone. They are stupid people and they are helpless.
>>142163663
That hit me right in the feel sack.
Imagine you are an aspiring author. Slaving away to make that book and hope it will make you great. Meanwhile some 15 year old shit plays videogames and makes millions. Spends it like a nigger with a 50 dollar bill at a KFC place, while try to make ends meet.
It makes me envious.
>>142164901
You're free to think that way, but that's probably why you can't appreciate the genre. It presupposes a certain kind of helplessness, it presupposes factors of great impact you cannot control, both internal (talent/genetics) and external (connections and opportunities).
>>142164905
That's actually a thing? It sounds fun to read.
>>142164424
I like Jonathan and Joseph because they both represent both sides of the spectrum. One's a freight train of a man that worked to study hamon, and the others a cheater that uses his resources and abilities to get by.
>>142164905
>all
Fucking check your numbers faggot.
>Complain about garbage
>Buy and support the garbage
Cheating your way to the top isn't hard, just gotta be willing to get dicked down by a few superiors in your field.
>>142164972
I spent three years writing a thousand plus page manuscript that two people read.
Feels bad man. But supply and demand is a bitch
>>142164972
>Meanwhile some 15 year old shit plays videogames and makes millions.
Streamers piss me off so much.
>>142164940
Hard work = Talent
People are lazy fucks
It takes grit and wisdom to go beyond what you think is possible
>>142163997
I thought because the author didn't know how to write him interesting anymore.
>>142164424
You would know that's not true in Shield Hero as every other hero reads it later.
>>142164976
>That's actually a thing? It sounds fun to read.
It really isn't when that's all there is to it
>>142164492
What about Peter Pan?
>>142165041
Hard work is boring. Magic bullshit isn't. Sure, it kind of takes away the whole underdog aspect, but on the other hand, it makes money and gets readers.
>>142165013
Maybe it just sucks. You ever think that?
Being a woman is the real easy mode.
I think Kirito, Kazuma, and Subaru are making efforts "manly"
才能と努力が必要ってこと
>>142164424
God damn, good post.
>>142165022
>tfw i play video games but have a shit connection so i can never be a famous and rich streamer/youtuber
streamers piss me off too, more for the fact that they have a better internet set up but play on prebuilt overpriced potatoes-to-be-in-a-few-months and only a few are actually competent at what they do instead of hype train-ing for the littlest shit that happens in game.
>>142164424
>no specific examples
Just speaking out of your ass huh?
>>142164976
I can't appreciate the genre because it's just not true.
Well - more accurately - it's only half true.
Everyone is born with strengths and weaknesses, and some tend to get the short end of the stick more than others. But there's a niche for everyone - it's just a matter if they're smart enough to find it.
In any case, even if there is no free will, and your life is set in stone from birth - creating a story that simply "flips the script" is both boring and juvenile.
You mentioned Kirito, right?
Him being better at Dungeons because of being a beta tester I get.
Him getting a super unique skill in an MMO of all things? That's where the blatant wish fulfillment comes in and ruins the story
>>142164492
Kind of like Kino but without the going home bit.
>>142164454
Is that you, John Wayne? Is this me?
>>142165033
You shouldn't forget about luck either. There's definitely something to be said about being in the right place at the right time.
>>142165022
You could do it if you put the effort in. I'm not saying you should, but feel good just knowing that.
>>142164905
It means Chinese people are wanna-be druggies and miss their Opium and other illegal drugs considering the fucking magic steroids and pills their protagonists consume.
>>142165137
Holy shit. You make me laugh, you fucking loser. They worked hard for that shit.
>Wanting to be successful.
That sounds like such a drag.
>>142163663
I hate to cite onii sama of all things, but this theory, while convenient, is painfully wrong. People who don't succeed have always been jealous of those who do. If someone thinks they have worked hard, they cannot acknowledge that they have done any wrong. If you do everything right, people will think you're just gifted or some shit. So rather than an escape from a bleak reality, I think these types of settings are nothing more than power wanking, which is exactly what most people here know. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't pass it off as some diagnosis of a society we don't live in.
>>142165112
Nah, it was good. I just need to make something that'll sell next time.
I really like the genre. Maybe it's because I'm miserable in reality and would love to be an adventurer or hero in a fantasy world. I'd find love, success, and glory. Instead I get to shitpost on 4chan for over a decade.
>>142164972
White people on youtube are the only people that make video game streamers famous.
There aren't any famous video game streamers in Japan that make as much money as PewdiePie
>>142165200
Hah, fucking luck fags. Just get out.
>>142165242
They fucking don't. Maybe the ones that aren't super popular,but pewdipie tier streamers are just fucking lucky.
>>142164828
>the Men from Jupiter were the Shitpudding half of John Carter where, after he's become King of Mars and shit, suddenly some new EVEN STRONGER enemies show up
FUCKING JUPITER
>and then Carter Napier shows up on a spaceship full of hot amazon bitches who live in the secret gardens of Venus
ITT:Bitch niggas hating on people doing things and being successful
>>142165286
>>142165308
>comparing to outlier Pewdiepie
>>142165286
Closest thing they have is Arino and Yukuris, but those don't count.
>>142165242
worked hard?
>"can i get a hype train in chat bois?"
>"lets fucking go bois!"
>"hit that subscribe button i'll suck your dick for 2 seconds when i shout out to you in stream!"
>"waah i'll scream like a bitch for views!"
what other "hard-working streamer" trope have i missed?
>>142165262
What are you talking about?
>>142165286
Of course not. PewDiePie became famous because YouTube was showing his videos to three-five different countries. Streamers in Japan would only show up on Japanese YouTube and even then the language is too hard to promote across countries.
>>142165327
This, fucking disgusting. You can only help yourself.
Japan's real issue is that they will not let go of tradition and move forward like the rest of the world. The consequences for that will be huge.
>>142165343
Gamergurrls with their tits taking up half the screen and men pretending to be women with voice changers.
>>142165022
People with thousands of viewers honestly aren't enviable. Chat interaction is a fucking joke, you're super delayed because everyone has to use Twitch to make any money, and to maintain that kind of popularity means you have to be vaguely entertaining for 5+ hours a day, most days a week.
It's a more gruelling job than most radio presenters or actors have, you don't even get a script.
I get that people see streamers as some guy "just" playing games, but it's a job I'd never want. E-sports is even worse, I can't imagine the kind of autism required to play the same game, day in, day out, in the name of practice.
>>142165392
Tell that to literally every fucking country, anon.
>>142165343
You seem triggered. Think about what really makes them successful. It might be what you're missing.
>>142165398
that's it i've found the perfect scheme:
>zoom in on a loop of gamergirl tits as they jiggle from time to time
>modify voice with screaming bee
>have tits take up the entire screen, put the game footage where the webcam would be
I've just done it guys, instant millionaire.
>>142165033
Where is luck? Where is your name? Where is your daddies network? Where is numerous other factors?
You could be born as a nigger in Biafra. If you are lucky, you reach adulthood.
Hard work does not equal success, smart work does not equal success. It is you who were at the right place at the right time.
Success is luck.
>>142165490
>people who barely watch twitch
What streamer has made it by doing that?
>>142165112
But it was hard work. Doesnt hard work bring success?
>>142165022
Are you mad that a 15 year old was able to capitalise on a market way before you thought about it?
Maybe if you were smart you could have been in on time too.
>>142165526
So you're just going to sit around for "luck" to happen?
>>142164905
It says that chinese people are self centered assholes who built a culture of condescension and service based around social hierarchy,being miserable and spending your whole life in stoic hard work to raise your status, just so you can now be the condescending self serving asshole enforcing said cultural standards.
I still hope that one day within the next decade, I win the grand lottery in my country and get lots of cash for just putting the right numbers.
>>142164498
people are not doing what they are supposed to, people are fucking retarded at managing their finances and making smart financial decisions, so they don't get into an excessive amount of debt. Then they have the audacity to complain about not having enough money for things when they just bought a brand new Titan and had it lifted.
>>142165483
I heard sociopathy helps success.
>>142164424
This is why original ending > time to shit on my ungrateful reader's heads ending will always be superior.
>>142165560
No. It's a thing to help you succeed. There are no guarantees in life, faggot. Everyone lied to you. You may also have to work smart, all that matters is as long as you are good at what you do and are an egotistic faggot, you'll make it.
>>142163663
>That manga
>Seemed decent for the first few chapters until the daughterfu gets aged up so the MC can lust after her in peace
>Similiar thing happens to a bird later on
Dropped it and never looked back.
>>142165609
This is why education is important.
>>142165041
Writing interesting characters requires hard work.
>>142165242
Fuck off. These shits don't work hard at all. It is not like they cultivated their body to achieve something great like in sports.
Mom and dad buy them their rigs. They plug a game. Scream in the microphone for 30min and upload that shit.
I don't know if I hate streamers more or the fanbase watching it. Only things I wished that were genocided more today are vloggers.
>>142163663
Interesting theory, though it may just be reading too much into the appeal of a magical world with a fresh start, and authors jumping on a trend.
I was reminded that in SAO, part of the world's appeal was the simplified mechanics making "work hard and you'll succeed" truer than life.
>In this world, a single blade can take you anywhere you want to go. And even though it's a virtual world, I feel more alive in here than I ever did in the real one.
>>142165703
If you truly believe that's all it takes, why do you consider yourself a failure?
>>142165326
I wish there was an anime of that.
I'm flipping these burgers super hard,but i'm still a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. What went wrong?
Japan: the land of interesting concepts and horrible execution.
>>142165577
You can work all your life, being smart and what not, but never make the big bucks like others without luck.
Now you can have a good life, while working hard and being financially smart, however the big success like the millionaires etc. is no guarantee.
And yes, there are people who have put in minimal effort and became loaded.
Success is having connections.
>>142165591
some faggot around here will say that it was hard work that brought you success, and will then continue to shit on anyone that says otherwise.
Someone needs to make Japan great again.
>>142165656
They really, REALLY should have a mandatory finances, tax, general living type of class in all public schools.
>>142164905
That kind of stuff just has a long history in Chinese fantasy.
>>142165926
Do you really think kids would take it seriously though?
>>142165889
This.
Fuck it. All my jobs I got was through people I knew. All the jobs I applied for never got me hired. Nepotism HO!!!
>>142165889
I would say the combination of hard work and luck. Connections would probably fall under both.
>>142165889
Explain why.
Yeah Hard Work doesn't necessarily lead to success
But in a Casino, the guy who crunches numbers is gonna do better than the guy who puts it all on 39 because it's his favorite number
>>142165984
Maybe you're just not an attractive person? All but one of my jobs was due to nepotism. The rest were all applied for.
>>142163663
That's an interesting conjecture but I think it's too self absorbed in escapism from the cruelty of reality, that can account for any type of series not just reincarnation/transporation.
I think the appeal is that readers like the idea of being moved to a different world away from the people they know, being OP compared to everyone else and having said world be filled with people mostly willing to suck MCs dick.
>>142166048
The people who make it through connections have a huge bias about it.
>>142165703
Spoiled white kids obsessing over other spoiled white kids is basically the idea
Hard work is bullshit. You can spend your whole life working hard and get fucked anyway. I've met homeless old people who either spent their savings or never actually managed to save up enough and became unable to work. They spent their whole lives working their balls off living the middle class dream, got old, and now they live on the fucking street sleeping in cardboard boxes next to trash. Talk about depressing. Just enjoy yourself while you can, and if you become homeless, at least you had a good run and didn't waste your time working your balls off.
We're at the point where humans are being completely devalued thanks to automation. There needs to be a complete revolution of the social system and economic system or it's all going to come crashing down like a house of cards once unemployment reaches the point where people aren't earning (and thus, spending) enough to keep the economy running. We already have a level of technology where the majority of humanity shouldn't NEED to work if they don't want to. Clearly there are still jobs that humans need to do, but we're fast approaching the point where those jobs aren't going to be enough to keep the economy rolling. We can't just stop and say OK, we'll just need to cut back on robots and have humans do the mindless labor again. That's completely counter to what Capitalism demands of businesses.
Reincarnation stories are just a symptom of the problem. They're all written by people who want to try and break out of being a NEET by becoming an author. They write stories about the only dream they have: escpaing this shitty world and starting over in a new one. Oh and I'm American btw. We're not all morons, the American Dream is dead, we're still busy beating the corpse.
>>142166009
Only falls back if you have capital at the start to make up for it
Connections give you a guaranteed start, not relying on hard work nor luck
>>142166048
Narcissistic attentionwhores tend to have it easy getting a job.
Japan will be a better place, when all the old salarymen die off, and the new generation takes over!!!
>>142164820
He's exaggerating with Shield Hero, the manual doesn't say jack shit andthe manual actually says different things to the different heroes because it's based upon belief and the hero's own experiences.The system is far more complicated than he's making it out to be.
Shield Hero gets a lot of flak, and you can say a lot of it is deserved, but the world building part is fleshed out relatively well compared to most LN. There's foreshadowing all over the place about how the mechanics work and it's not like the heroes were all great people to begin with.
In fact, the MC only manages to come out ahead because he was the most naive and suffered hard. It was more luck based than anything else, because in the gaidenwhere another hero goes back in timehe doesn't suffer the same fate and as a consequence he doesn't gain the strength of mind as before.
Shieldhero is actually one of the few stories where the MC was just as fucked as his rivals from anything but a luck stand point. It was just chance.
>>142166105
Haha, what? If they worked hard, they should have had some kind of safety net. They shouldn't be homeless people on the street.
>>142166124
I would never call myself narcissistic, but...
>>142166105
If you live in a decent country this would never happen. A decent country takes care of people in need,especially the elderly.
>>142164562
narnia's books are fucking old m8
>>142166105
You're retarded
The best guarantee that you will be rich and
successful is to be born into a rich and
successful family.
For every winner with a good idea and a dream
there are a hundred losers with a good idea
and a dream who failed.
To succeed you need skill and luck. Luck is
more important than skill.
>>142166182
Typical american. A homeless old person? Get fucked! You probably didn't pull your bootstraps hard enough.
>>142164820
>the Kirito had such an advantage in SAO because he was a beta tester.
Being "the fastest man in SAO" and consequently being granted dual wield attribute had nothing to do with beta testing knowledge, he's just fast for no reason.
>>142166048
I know I am not attractive. I am short, chubby and have a baby face. I am not masculine or feminine. I have a strong southern accent, and when my face is on neutral it has the face of someone who knows war is starting tomorrow.
At first glance people discard me, while my current employer is super happy with me, because my uncle vouched for me to give me a chance. Same goes with my group of friends.
>>142166286
>fast for no reason
>what is being a gamer
>what is important for a gamer
>what is speed
>>142164424
Would Death Note be considered to you to be a good example of cheating? Light has a "hax" power to be able to magically kill anyone leaving no evidence behind just by knowing his name and face, but the author contrives to make things difficult for him so he has to constantly improvise ways to not get caught.
>>142163663
You know I remember reading a thread on /jp/ some time ago about the issues of unemployment in Japan. I think you guys can dig through the archive to find it but I kept getting the feeling in some of the portions of it that there were people in Japan that were working hard, but they were doing the same shit over and over again and they expected something positive to come of it every try, and it never happened.
Not doing much today, guess I'll poke through it again if I can find it
>>142166072
>I think the appeal is that readers like the idea of being moved to a different world away from the people they know, being OP compared to everyone else and having said world be filled with people mostly willing to suck MCs dick.
That's basically exactly what he described, though. He just framed it more positively.
>>142166251
That doesn't make sense considering most of the homeless are actually mentally ill so they probably couldn't work all that hard. If the person is working as hard as the other poster said, they would have something to show for it.
>>142166296
I didn't really mean attractive in just the physical sense. I was thinking more like your resume sucks or your attitude at interviews. Don't take it as an attack on your physical appearance.
>>142166182
That's the fucking deception. Just because you "worked hard" doesn't guarantee you anything. Old people who spend their savings to bail out their children from debts and weren't supported in return, old people who were tricked out of their money, old people who had all their money tied in their house and lost it due to some tax shenanigans and some douchebag swooped in bought it for practically nothing, old people who were barely able to make ends meet because the city they lived in had retarded costs of living, etc.
The US is a shithole, we just hide behind a veneer of superiority. Go drive through Boston or New York City and actually take a look around you instead of the usual carefree tunnel vision. You'll see what I am talking about. There's homeless shelters and places where they can go and get food, but that's still not the kind of life anyone should have to live, and when they're over capacity, they actually tell people to leave because there aren't enough beds. What the fuck is that even? Let them sleep on the fucking floor in the warm building.
>>142166356
I'm pretty sure there have been a million threads on /jp/ about unemployment in Japan, considering it's a Japanese culture board full of NEETs.
I just see it as the latest popular trend, not really anything deeper than that. Yeah disaffected people are going to latch onto it but that's true of basically all escapist fiction. That's what escapism is for. Just wish the normalfags would shut the fuck up and let others enjoy their escapist fantasies in peace. What does it hurt to let other people be happy?
>>142165979
not him but they probably wouldn't. However, doing it for years might allow it to stick a little in their heads so they'll hesitate before making pants-on-head retarded financial decisions.
I think that perfectly describes why I hate this trend so much even though I like a lot of other really shallow power fantasies like Hokuto no Ken. I don't hate escapism, but this little subgenre is so deeply cynical that it's exhausting. I'm even a loser NEET so I can see how it would appeal, but damn.
>>142163663
>the manga Ressentiment as a literary-style work
Manga is the first new style of literature in centuries.
The normalfags are so scared of manga being accepted as literature that their doing everything they can to keep it down.
>>142165979
If the standard for including a class in public school was whether most students would take it seriously, education wouldn't be mandatory in the first place.
>>142166529
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, but I'd just like to say that ressentiment is terrible and that normalfags piling onto that sort of thing as "literature" (who gives a shit, honestly?) would just make the manga community even more insufferable.
>>142166012
Because you don't have them and you are a pathetic loser. So, logically, that means that the difference between pathetic /a/ poster and success is connections. Also physical attractiveness and social graces, both things we both know you will never have.
>>142166395
No, I know you meant my appearance. Its ok, no need to protect my feelings.
As I have heard many times before from recruiters, my resume is impressive. All the work history is because I got help. The education, skills, languages is what I worked for myself. During interviews I am energetic and attentive.
On another note, I asked some girls from my group to be honest with me. I am KV.
So they told me that I was pleasant to be around. Very nice and admirable, even good looking to some but for some reason I give off a weird vibe, making people initially very stand off-ish/on edge when they meet me. One jokingly said it was because of the pheromones i give off. I called her an idiot because of that.
>>142166412
>Old people who spend their savings to bail out their children from debts and weren't supported in return
A hard worker obviously didn't work hard enough to teach their children to not fall into debt. I'm pretty sure my Dad didn't clean out my Grandfather to fix his debt. He had to work to get rid of it.
>old people who were tricked out of their money
Okay? So that's mean they worked hard and had something, but lost it due to something unrelated/possibly illegal.
>old people who had all their money tied in their house and lost it due to some tax shenanigans
Are you talking about people not paying their taxes and then suddenly get rammed by the IRS because they liked living their lifestyle without thinking about their future?
>old people who were barely able to make ends meet because the city they lived in had retarded costs of living
Eventually you have to move if you can't make ends meet. You have to downsize as you get older. It's a fact of life. If you want to go broke trying to support your old lifestyle then you've got a problem.
>Go drive through Boston or New York City and actually take a look around you instead of the usual carefree tunnel vision.
I've lived in New York City. Three generations are from NYC. I've seen what hardwork gets you.
>Homeless
You know most of them are mentally ill and not exactly just old people who lost it all considering hard working old people should still have their social security net along with government health insurance.
>Let them sleep on the fucking floor in the warm building.
Because overcrowding is dangerous.
Just let me know when someone writes one that's actually good and not just escapism or just pure "no dumbass the grass isn't any greener lmao" edge like Shieldbro
I just hate how they all turn into harems.
>>142166717
This. And how they basically are god for whatever reason.
>>142163663
Most of it is shit, but a handful of anime in the genre are actually enjoyable.
I don't know how that's any different from the rest of anime, and I think that people just like to hate on it because of how quickly the genre skyrocketed in popularity.
>>142166715
Not with your shittaste
>>142166717
So don't read the ones with harems like HikiNeet or Bookworm
>>142166715
>escapism is bad
Only like 10% of Shieldbro is edgy, anyway.
>>142166770
Shield Hero is trashy as fuck, though
>>142166753
This. People will always shit on whatever the most recent trend is, and then when the next one comes along they'll say "that last trend could be good sometimes, at least, but this one is just 100% shit."
>>142166749
Let's make a manga that basically real life set in fantasy medieval age with self-insert modern guy. Surely the people will love how this loser from our world be a loser in their world.
>>142166665
I'm not really protecting your feeling. When in the context of employment, being attractive means more than just physical appearance.
Anyway, I'm sorry? I can't really give you any advice. Try for more social interaction?
>>142166805
Shit
Taste
>>142166717
Anything that focuses on more than 1 girl is a harem.
>>142166840
This. It's not the writer's fault. It's shipperfaga.
>>142164635
>Fedora tipping
>>142166875
>>142166840
Why wouldn't it be called a love triangle?
>>142166828
>Let's make a manga that basically real life set in fantasy medieval age with self-insert modern guy. Surely the people will love how this loser from our world be a loser in their world.
Futurama did it with sci-fi and it was great.
>>142166672
I love this guy. He totally gets it.
>>142166828
Are you retarded
People love underdog stories
>>142166838
I never said I didn't like it, though? It's just a really trashy story about shitty people doing shitty things
>>142166823
Wasn't the last trend magic academies? That was a legitimately shit though.
>>142166831
Yes, you were. It is ok. I forgive you for that as you meant no harm.
It is common knowledge that tall people for instance have greater success than short people. It is also common knowledge that your physical appearance at first is the great deal breaker and people as they are already form an opinion as soon as you step through that door.
It is not that I hate the system. I mean it is rigged from the start. Life isn't fair, and winners and losers will always be around.
>>142166943
>People love underdog stories
I see your point, but let's be fair, there's a point where underdog stops being Rocky and starts being, well, light novels.
If things like popular genres are tied to social/national attitudes, what do you think the next big VN genre will be?
>>142167016
Post-nuclear survival horror, but you didn't hear it from me.
>make LN about life in a MMORPG
>You could make interesting stories about different kind of people dealing with the virtual world: trying to go home, detaching themselves from the real world, trying to solve the mysteries of the game, etc
>well fuck that let's trivialize this shit and make it about shipping
To be fair Log Horizon and Grimgar kind of did this right but they just were going nowhere as they were ads for the LNs and still had waifus everywhere
>>142166105
>They're all written by people who want to try and break out of being a NEET by becoming an author.
Which they do-
>>142167056
Fix
Your
Shit
Taste
>>142167056
>well fuck that let's trivialize this shit and make it about shipping
This is not a problem exclusive to this genre.
>>142167056
>waifus
Fuck off.
>>142166996
Charisma tramples pure physical appearance any day senpai. Seen that happen more than once and it was just like in ny Chinese cartoons
Work on it even if you have no hope left
>>142163953
>>142163997
That made too much sense. I think I respect a LITTLE bit more isekais now.
It really makes sense when you bring the "hardworking MCs/characters" like that.
>>142164424
>they usually just are born with a hax skill that gives them power.
That's literally the point of the argument.
They are using "cheat" as the meaning of "being three steps ahead everyone"
>>142166943
They love underdog stories of underdogs getting success. That is the appeal. Hard work brings success. However the world is jaded right now, and hard work brings jack shit.
The real fantasy would be that the underdog wins in the end, but hard work is not enough anymore. Now luck is more important.
>>142166956
Magic academy battle harems, and also urban fantasy battle harems. It's why Strike the Blood feels like a throwback to nearly a decade ago.
The only good Reincarnation anime I've watched is Re:zero because the MC remains totally underpowered throughout the series.
That's literally all you need for a reincarnation story to be good: Just don't make the MC really strong and fuck him over 24/7.
>>142164365
Not exactly fantasy world, but it also applies
>>142167131
Fucking the mc just for the sake of it is no better than giving him constant rewards.
>>142167093
Nay, either you have charisma or you don't. It is not a muscle you can train or a tool you can fix as charisma is something that is based on many factors, including looks.
>>142163663
That's a very nice excuse, but I think it's far more likely that a kind of story where a "useless person" gets a "second chance" in a world where they don't need to put any effort to succeed just strikes a very powerful chord with dissatisfied neet failures. I should know, and while this may be projection, I have very little doubt it applies to at least the bulk of the fanbase for these kinds of tales.. "I wish I hadn't wasted my youth, I wish I'd seen opportunities for what they were, I wish I was a genius so I could coast through life easily".
Pft, realism. What a fucking joke.
>>142167056
>adventure harem
>retards complain that it isn't a completely different story that happens to have the same setting
Every time.
>japanese blogger figures out people like this shit because it's escapism where loser gets to be awesome and get all the pussy
Better late than never i guess.
>>142167147
How so? The MC in Re:zero returns from death so it's pretty cool watching him get fucked over and trying to get out of impossible situations.
That's way better than an MC who gets hax powers and has literally no challenges.
>>142167131
Funny that Re:Zero only exists as a response to stories about cheating MCs.
>>142167172
Charisma isn't an RPG stat, and while looks play a part, and while your looks can only be partially altered, most other factors can be trained and improved.
>>142167107
You know thats bull and you should feel bad
>cmon dudebro personality and charm are more important than appearances
>is a 6'4 chiseled demigod
Try looking like puberty never hit you, toddlerfaced and 5'5 even when you're 24 and then talk to me about charisma and charm faggot.
>>142167131
>>142167208
Eh, Edge of Tomorrow did it better.
>>142167216
>Charisma isn't an rpg stat
>>142167177
It also reassures that those who succeeded did so because they must have cheated somehow so it's okay that they didn't work hard because they wouldn't have made it anyway.
>>142167202
Yeah I like it in RE:zero because the MC has to think about whats going on, but a hackier writer would just beat the MC down and nothing would come of it.
>>142163663
Yeah I'm not reading all this shit. Their taste is fucking shit just like every ESL that posts this kind of garbage on this board.
>>142167243
Triggered eh?
>>142167249
All You Need Is Kill was written as a response to videogame savescumming.
Isn't this just the anime form of litRPG?
>>142167243
I've seen sub 5' manlets be quite charismatic. Sure, they have a handicap, but don't blame everything on muh genetics unless you're seriously deformed.
>>142167172
Of course you can train it. I've seen that too from close over the years. Not going into details to avoid blogging but it's true. Your posture your tone of voice, the way you speakx ever personal hygiene - all of that can be praticed. Looks are but one factor
You have literally nothing to lose trying
>>142167264
Losers are easy to pander too because they are fucking losers. Everyone laughs at them because we need them. They bring balance.
>>142163663
>“In fact, the idea that if you try hard you will (definitely) succeed is more of a fantasy.”
That may be so, but most good tales involve hard work, talent, and a great measure of luck to succeed.
Not many try or succeed at selling the idea that the everyman can have everything through hard work alone.
>>142167273
You get pretty tired of Chads thinking they're being good guys by patronizing the shit out of you. I'm a manlet I get it, I'm literal pussy-repellant. Women would rather fuck a balding obese 6'2 autist than a sub 6' person.
I'm not that concerned about the escapism bit. I mean, fiction is all about escapism. It's what we do to cope with reality.
What bugs me is how many of these light novels have such shit writing. It's not just web novels either - I swear, reading the translation of Mushokyu Tensei caused me to lose brain cells.
Seriously, I'm writing my own isekai story now, and even though I'm a shit writer I can still do better than these hacks.
>>142164424
Charlotte played around with a cheating protag in it's first episode before it turned into "redemption" crap.
>>142167386
Not really anon. And hey, at least you're not a balding obese sub' person. You do seem on the autistic side, try to separate fit memes from reality.
>>142167385
They do because it will lead you there, but it won't definitely work.
I personally like Overlord, Kumo Desu Ga, Destruction Flag Otome and Re: Zero quite a bit. These kinds of stories need some sort of twist to get me interested
>>142167386
Have you actually been outside? Or have you just been lurking /int/
>>142167411
>newbie writer who doesn't know what he's talking about
See you fail in a few weeks, faggot
>>142167216
No, it has to be in your character as well. Introverted people have a much harder time to be charismatic as it sucks their energy out of them, while extroverted people feed from it.
That is why extroverts can handle social groups better as it feeds them energy.
Then there is your upbringing. How was your childhood, how were your parents or siblings to you. How was school and growing up. Did you have a teenage crush? Were you born rich or poor?
These are but a small portion of factors that make who you are. A lot of them attribute towards how you behave and in this case, how charismatic you are.
We all make choices since we born. Some work out, some don't. In the end we are products of ourselves and our surroundings, as the outside shapes us. By saying 30 years down the line to become more charismatic is like telling a fish to start learning how to climb a tree.
>>142167411
Pitch your story then fag
>>142167220
hit to below the feels?
>>142163663
>Yet in real life, lots of people try hard but fail to succeed
There's a big difference between trying hard and trying right.
Trying hard at something stupid and pointless can only result in something stupid and pointless, so why should pure effort be rewarded? If you have the capacity to exert lots of effort at something, then make sure you're doing it into something even moderately worthwhile.
> it’s taken as a given that people cheat their way to the top in society
This is also stupid. It's just a question of time allocation. I've seen it again and again in my work, my friends and families work. A worker who is highly efficient and does his job perfectly will almost always be passed over while a worker who is notably less competent gets promoted... because he spent time pointing out what he did to the bosses.
Bosses don't spend their time looking over their employees. They don't know who's competent and who's good. At best they'll pass by some workers and might see one with an empty desk (because the worker is smart and efficient) and think it's because the worker is lazy, and pass by an overflowing desk (because the worker is inefficient and dumb) and think it's a very hard worker.
So all that dumb worker has to do is point out how hard he works and he'll get promoted over the smart, efficient worker who hasn't made himself look good.
Perception is what matters in human interaction. Not reality. Especially if the perception can fully obfuscate reality.
There's a reason why middle management is always slimy faggots who never work and spend all their time socializing, backstabbing and taking others achievements for themselves. It's because those actions are what put them into middle management.
cont.
>>142167452
You're the reason there's too many twists. Understand how stupid you are.
the truth is life is rigged and will always rigged by the people who game the system.
most people are cowards and shackled by their beliefs or misguided morality.
Once you unshackle yourself from the things that hinder you, you'll have a slightly better chance at life then 80% of the people out there.
>>142167411
>Seriously, I'm writing my own isekai story now, and even though I'm a shit writer I can still do better than these hacks.
What's the premise senpai? I'm actually interested.
>>142167497
A boy falls in love with a girl.
Unable to confess, he is gifted with by a deus ex machina with the girl's in-game MMO username. Never minding the strange server name, he immediately logs in and plays with her, and is overjoyed to find out that she has a crush on him as well.
But, the next day, when he recounts the previous day's gaming session to the girl, she only looks at him with a perplexed expression. After some investigation, he finds out that the girl he called is not the same girl he fell in love with. In fact, she doesn't exist in this universe at all. She is the girl's alternate universe counterpart, who has fallen in love with the MC's own AU self, who too is blissfully unaware of her crush.
Hijinks ensue as the two strike up a deal to give each other their darkest, most private secrets in order to equip the other with the virtual weapons they need to conquer the heart of their other selves. While the two chase their respective loved ones, DRAMA ensues as they begin to fall in love with each other instead and question the NATURE of LOVE.
>>142167540
Game the system or leave it is really the only way to live.
>>142167497
It's too good to share with the likes of ELS shitters like you. I'll keep it to myself, thanks.
>>142167471
>No, it has to be in your character as well.
Not really. It's true, introverts have it harder than extroverts in social settings, but you use it as an excuse. My cousin does the same, she doesn't even try. I'm extremely introverted, but with a little determination and practice (and alcohol) I can have a great time with a lot of people and have normal interpersonal relationships.
No one is born equal, but whether or not you let that inequality define you is in the hands of most of us. And most of the time, it's your own fault if you can't get over it.
>>142167297
I have 0 guilt for savescumming games that give you chance based rewards. I savescum the everliving fuck out of Fire Emblem until I get levelups I like, for example. I savescum in RPGs to get boss drops all the time. Luck based bullshit DESERVES to be savescummed. All hail fixed stat gains and set drops.
The reason all these LNs have video game analogies are because real life is now becoming just like a shitty video game, where you'll only reach the top if you're lucky. The difference is there's no savescumming.
>>142167510
Would it be better if everything was a rebirth harem?
>>142167602
Yes.
>escapism is escapism
fucking wow what a reveal
>>142167540
>most people are cowards and shackled by their beliefs or misguided morality.
what do you mean by this? Do you believe in Camus' Absurdism?
>>142167508
Cont.
Beyond this is another big issue. Nepotism.
Hiring someone because they are friend or family over someone who merits the job more.
It's what has made the Jews the timeless target of every other group they've shared a country with. A strong and relentless in-group preference is a clear advantage for members of that group. As soon as a few of them get power, they can then pull up every other member of the group to other positions of power, eventually shutting out the majority from its own power.
Again, makes perfect sense for the in-group, but it's sure to piss off the out-group.
The sad thing is, while you can reduce the frequency at which this happens by promoting merit based hiring and promotion as much as possible, it's impossible to eradicate.
It's just too easy for someone to pick someone they know who isn't perfect for the job, but good enough over someone they don't know who could be perfect for the job, but could also be terrible. The evil we know, and all that.
>>142167600
>luckfags
Life is so simple. Just be good and you will make it.
>>142167600
Why the fuck would you feel guilty about savescumming in the first place? It's a fucking game, you're playing for fun.
>>142167620
I disagree
>>142167550
>>142167497
An isekai fan dies, and is reincarnated in a parallel world.
As an NPC.
It's a slice-of-life disguised as an isekai story. The MC, who was previously enamoured with becoming the hero, is forced to be an innkeeper. The story deals with how the MC deals with his new life, which at first seems similar to his old one.
Then he either accepts it or decides to kill the hero in his sleep whe he stays at the inn. Haven't thought things fully yet.
>>142167468
If I fail, I fail. I mean, Leo Tolstoy I ain't, but at the very least I could do better than most if those web novels.
WHAT DO YOU NIGGERS HAVE AGAINST SHORT BURSTS OF HAPPINESS
>>142167675
If you want to, you're going to have to prove it, faggot. I'll be waiting.
>>142167471
Your past did not set your social skills in stone and there's no excuse to neglect a skill that will be useful for the rest of your life
Yes, success depends on many factors outside of your control but personal growth is one of the few cases where sheer hard work will absolutely bring results. Fake it until it becomes second nature, nothing wrong with that
>>142167675
that's bretty gudso I'll steal it
>>142167675
The premise sounds decent enough seeing as the MC isn't a superpowered god the moment he arrives in the parallel world.
>>142167731
Faking is absolutely disgusting. That's how you do bad things.
>>142167709
Those pants look dumb as fuck.
>>142167731
>>142167595
>>142167471
Take it to some other board, guys.
>>142167600
Fire Emblem would be so much better if it autosaved constantly.
>>142167768
Got something against knee-bucklers?
>>142167651
Yeah
I walked right into a boardroom, gave the CEO a firm handshake and he made me manager of the downtown store that same day
You just have to pull yourself up by your bootstraps
>>142167675
There's a few like that. One I can recall is 'Because I'm a Weapons Shop Uncle'
>>142167767
Don't be an imbecile. Faking it is how you fit in. Have some drinks to ease the crippling social anxiety, and bluff for all you're worth. You get used to it, you get good at it.
>>142166286
I don't know much about shart online but I was under the impression beta-tester experience carried over and the system would sometimes randomly generate secret classes for people based on their playstyle, hence the special snowflake dual blade class. Don't know why the fuck he's superhuman otherwise.
Also holy fuck wouldn't that be frustrating as hell to be in a world where you suddenly couldn't use a weapon because of some arbitrary invisible system saying 'no you aren't a wizard you can't equip that staff'?
>>142165889
Yamato please leave.
>>142167731
>Fake it until it becomes second nature, nothing wrong with that
Yeah man, just do it.
Stop feeling unhappy. Cheer up bro and you'll be happy just like that.
Getting girls is easy too bro just talk to them and they will be at your feet.
Also, don't forget to be yourself.
Nothings worse than those twists where everyone gets slaughtered.
>>142165720
>In this world, a single blade can take you anywhere you want to go. And even though it's a virtual world, I feel more alive in here than I ever did in the real one.
Too bad sao didn't live up to that ethos and didn't have any spirit.
>>142167828
No anon, see: >>142167807
That's how an introvert plays. Absolutely never be your stupid autistic self. And for the love of god don't talk about anime.
>>142167666
By accepting a reload, you give express permission for a higher authority to plagiarize you. You didn't save the day; the reloads did, and you simply fed it the information.
>>142167131
>>142167249
To be fair, that anon said anime
>>142167868
Anime is life.
>>142167802
funny thing, I also attempted to make contact with the CEO of a company to ask about ANY job, and his secretary had me escorted out of the building because i wasn't in his scheduled appointments.
I wasn't trying to be edgy or act weird or anything; I had on a suit, was well groomed, personable (i can fake it very well), "normal". All i asked was when he would be back from lunch so I could get a chance to speak with him. She said "one moment please", picked up the phone, and dialed for security.
Let me guess, you happened to have an appointment to meet your CEO, which means you passed the phone screening, which means you applied or were referred by people you know. Also known as "nepotism".
>>142167709
Because its not real and its obnoxious.
Its why SAO is hated. It went too deep into self-fellation.
Marche is right and will always be right.
>>142166105
Fuck where you're from,
Fuck where you're goin,
It's all about where you're at
>>142165926
>They really, REALLY should have a mandatory finances, tax, general living type of class in all public schools.
>They really, REALLY should have a mandatory meat, nutrition, general veterinary medicine type of class in all slaughterhouses.
It's not just a coincidence people graduate university without knowing what a tax is, Anon.
