so let me get this straight. This guy's motive for killing thousands and trapping everyone in a death game is because he was bored? What kind of SHIT WRITING IS THAT?
>>142095787
Apparently you have never read/watched a documentary on serial killers/psycopaths/sociopaths and witnessed what one is like. Lurk moar and educate yourself.
>>142095787
The kind where you're high as fuck
He's bad news.
Honestly? It made sense to me. How much do we all fantasize about being someone amazing? Living in a fantasy world? Experiencing the adventures all those heroes do?
Add a touch of sociopath, and I can actually understand his reason. He just wanted to be MC of a fantasy story. He was the only character I didn't think was completely retarded and unbelievable.
>>142095787
Same reason God made everything desu.
>>142095787
Of all the countless things wrong with this shitshow you pick the one thing that's okay for a completly crazy villain?
>>142095995
So the point of God ending the world at some point is to purge all things bad about it so it can become a kingdom of all things good?
>>142095866
he's right though, it's still lazy writing
>>142095915
Wasn't that line only in the
>dub
?
Are you watching
>dubs
anon? For real?
>>142095787
Didn't he do it for science?
I think I would do it too if I thought I could get away with it.
>If I die in the game, I'll die in real life!
>Except for when I can respawn myself at any given time I want
>Strong badass independent womyn who don't need no man mmhmm's character development basically went backwards
>Highest budget tentacle rape hentai of all time
>Losecest
>That insufferable fucking AI daughter that needed to be squished at any given moment
And this is one of the most iconic anime series of this 2010's.
>>142095996
>Of all the countless things wrong with this shitshow you pick the one thing that's okay for a completly crazy villain?
Fucking this.
>>142096193
Don't forget
>We're trapped in a death game, so lets all go bully the strongest players with the most knowledge
>Kirito is the strongest and most badassest because I said so and the mechanics in this MMO make no fucking sense
Of all of the complaints about this series, this is the most retarded.
>>142096193
>Losecest
?
Also
>manages to powerlevel way faster than everyone else >only spends a few hours each night powerleveling, spends all day dicking around with low-level parties
>>142095787
>a person with a lot of power
>abusing it
Yes, this has been happening all around the world.
And that guy just used his research on that.
Did he actually kill anyone tho. I mean he just trapped them. I blame the scrubs dying to mobs or the players fucking killing each other.
He literally had a god complex, make the world and just watch people die/kill each other.
I never thought about it until now.
>>142096450
>throwing people in a cage full of lions
>I didn't kill them, the lions did
ok then retard
>>142096450
Throw people in a city with no felines, but surrounded by cats in the outskirts and lions further away from there is more fitting though.
>>142095787
Boredom is pretty damn dangerous, it makes people do destructive things. Kierkegaard called it the root of all evil.
I thought he did it because he wanted people to not spend their lives in game(s) and in reality instead.
The worst thing was how he was portrayed as a noble dindu nuffin at the end of the first arc and second arc.
>>142096450
He trapped them in a prison from which the only possible escape involved risking their lives for months on end. That counts as murder.
I think somewhere along the series it was mentioned that some players married NPCs because they grew tired of finding a way out.
Can NPCs even get pregnant?
>>142095787
>This guy's motive for killing thousands and trapping everyone in a death game is because he was bored?
You mean you wouldn't trap thousands of innocent people inside of a death game and watch their despair as their comfy lives crumble away, all just for shits and giggles?
>>142096081
>This plot is unrealistic because the motivation makes no sense.
Well actually it isn't unrealistic.
>This plot is lazy because the motivation makes sense.
>>142096677
Noone said it's unrealistic, op said that it was shit writing, and it is.
>>142096614
not everyone died therefore everyone could have potentially survived which means if they had worked together properly then it could have been a zero death game.
>>142096739
he could've just told people the idea and have volunteers play the game, not trap innocent clueless people
>>142096773
I think he wants them feel "fear".
No one will feel it if they already know they'll be trapped for a while.
>>142096739
I bet you think Jigsaw isn't a murderer either...
Fuck it, let's take that to the logical extreme:
>stab person in the neck
>they die
>if they just moved out of the way they could have potentially survived so I'm not technically a murderer!
>>142096646
We're already doing that, it's called 4chan
>>142096805
so what, it's still murder
>>142096811
>wikiHow_HAYAI.jpg
>>142096773
>just tell them
And taint the sample What kind of terrible methodology is that?
>>142096839
Never said it wasn't. Read the goddamn post.
>>142096882
the one where you don't become an autistic mass murderer and can still play your god game? even people in hxh knew that it was dangerous to go to greed island and they still did it
>2016
>people still talk about SAO
Was this really that revolutionary?
>>142096921
Look. When he trapped those innocent people, he knew he's gonna be a murderer. And he let it happen. Because he never cared if he'll be killed/arrested by the end.
What you gonna do about it? It's already written.
>>142096989
>It's already written.
and it's shit writing, that's the point
>>142096921
>you can do science without being an asshole
Sure but why would you want to?
Robbers cave study
Stanford prison experiment
Aids tested on people without their knowledge
>>142096982
I don't want to sound like an asshole but it doesn't have to be revolutionary to be discussed, does it?
>>142096982
>Was this really that revolutionary?
It stole the virginity of one of the coolest premises in recent anime history, then dumped her for that slut 'battle harem'.
>>142097029
What does that even mean?
What makes shit writing and what makes good writing.
>>142097068
It's not like being trapped in a game was a never before seen concept before SAO came along.
>>142097029
>hurr I don't want any characters to die
>fuck this shit writing
You sound like you have Sachi as your waifu.
>>142097045
>le science :^)
ok then autismo
>>142097109
interesting writing is good writing, even fucking hyakka ryouran had more interesting antagonists, using "cuz he's crazy" for the whole plot is just extremely lazy
>>142097154
I don't mind characters dying, but don't make up shit excuses for shit writing
>>142096615
Why marry them? They're NPCs. Collect them and use them as fucktoys and punching bags.
>>142097151
>It's not like being trapped in a game was a never before seen concept before SAO came along.
Of course, but SAO was the first to give us a taste of 'trapped in a VRMMORPG with permanent real-world death'.
And that's a crying shame too, because we're going to have to wait years before we can see that premise utilised properly now - everyone else is too scared that their work will be called a SAO-clone.
>>142097199
Careful with that edge.
>>142097159
If your entire point is "lazy shit is lazy shit" then you have no point.
>>142095787
Whenever a male character is introduced in SAO there's a 50% he's a psycho/rapist/both
>>142097250
You think that was edgy, bud? You should've seen my post before I rewrote it. Pssh.
>>142097211
I doubt it, it's just a retarded concept, might as well just write an isekai story with rpg mechanics
>>142097259
so you're literally saying that lazy shit is not shit, wow you sure are retarded
He completely forgot
>>142097211
I thought .hack did that before
>>142097211
Log Horizon did a pretty good job with the whole getting trapped in a game thing, but it's more about actually living in that world than pure survival.
Which I don't mind. Battle Royale isn't that much of a novel concept, either.
>>142097292
What I am saying that you are lazy and your opinions are shit.
>>142097317
so you have no points, nice
>>142097292
>might as well just write an isekai story with rpg mechanics
No, that's retarded. There are 8 million of those already. The reason SAO's premise is so interesting is because it literally takes place in a VRMMORPG - and thus has a plausible excuse for RPG mechanics, and also a setting which the audience could imagine themselves in some day in the future.
>>142097285
>bud
>Pssh.
wow dude fuck off
>>142097340
> The reason SAO's premise is so interesting
But it's not interesting and just ends up as a clusterfuck of plot holes. You can imagine yourself being transported to a fantasy world too.
I will never forgive japan for making Sword Art Online more popular than Accel World. AW is so much fucking better.
>>142095787
It's honestly some of the best writing in SAO.
>>142097334
>so you have no points, nice
This is what I have been driving at from the beginning.
My opinion is shit and your opinion is shit and we all have no points because you cant make a good sharp point out of soft warm shit.
>>142096259
>Kirito is the strongest and most badassest because I said so and the mechanics in this MMO make no fucking sense
The fact that
>ONLY I THOUGHT TO LEVEL MY HEARING SKILL, BY HEARING
Was a thing will never fail to make me laugh
>>142097392
Why do you want to self-insert into some fat kid?
>>142097374
>But it's not interesting
Simple negation isn't an argument.
>>142097311
.hack never did any sort of perma-death thing iirc
>>142097314
I don't know why I can't get into Log Horizon. There's nothing I particularly dislike about it, but I just don't find it very interesting for some reason.
>it's more about actually living in that world than pure survival
I guess it's the survival aspect I find more interesting than the 'trapped in a virtual world' setting. I liked Grimgar more than Log Horizon, for example.
>>142097431
nice strawman, uninspired wiring is gonna be shit writing regardless of opinions
>>142097438
I don't. And that's exactly the problem. You don't need a self-insert character to have a good story. Haruyuki is a far more interesting character than ANYONE in SAO, but unfortunately, there's idiots like you who refuse any story that isn't headed up by a bland self-insert character.
>>142097334
>>142097431
>this two still arguing
You two try to construct your sentences without using the word "shit". This will make you point out what is actually "shit" on the writing. Go on. Try it.
>>142097465
>I disagree with you therefore you are wrong.
Yup I guess I am wrong then. You have fun in your right party where all your favorite anime are the best and everything you hate is trash.
>>142097450
Simple statements aren't arguments either, also I pointed out how "living in an mmo" is a retarded concept that makes no sense and just leads to plot hole ridden shitfests. That's why it's not nearly as popular as something like isekai stories which allow a lot more creativity because they don't have the same pointless restrictions.
>>142097250
>caring what happens to lines of code that are no more sentient than that guy you killed on the side of the street in GTA
Kirito, is that you?
>>142097504
Sorry dad.
>>142095787
so let me get this straight. This guy's motive for creating chaos and all-out power struggle is because he was bored? What kind of SHIT WRITING IS THAT?
>>142097504
being a condescending retard with no arguments won't get you far in life
>>142097516
you sure like using deflections and strawmans to disregard any sort of objectivity in an argument, good job retard
>>142097521
>"living in an mmo" is a retarded concept that makes no sense and just leads to plot hole ridden shitfests
Plot holes like what?
>There's some new technology that allows someone's consciousness to be interrupted which is used for virtual reality games.
>Said technology has been secretly wired to be made capable of killing the player by some means which doesn't need to be explained.
I don't see how the concept necessarily leads to plot holes, as long as the writer thinks it through.
>>142097374
>You can imagine yourself being transported to a fantasy world too.
Sure, if you're an autistic retard who believes in fantasy worlds and has low enough intelligence to compare it to vr technology that is already here in primitive form.
>objectivity
>argument
>>142097559
It wasn't because he was bored you fucking mongoloid, he wanted to experience humanity one last time because where he comes from they all act like fucking lifeless robots and have given up on life.
>>142097530
>trapped in MMO world
>don't want to die fighting monsters
>but still want to live, have a family
>the girl character you liked/chatted/have fun with during the game is actually a boy
>every one is actually ugly lying pieces of shit
>during exploration of the town, meet cute flower girl
>chat with her, fall in love with her
>have a family with her
>live a simple life and be an NPC
extreme emotions, sadness/loneliness in this case, will make you do things. heck there exist a person who married his dakimakura.
>>142097571
>being a condescending retard with no arguments won't get you far in life
Stop being a defensive whiny bitch. Your arguments are only "shitty writing". Point it out like a man.
>>142097582
>sao has no plot holes!
Ok then, I guess Kirito breaking the game code through sheer will makes a lot of sense.
>>142097582
>>142097583
>muh technology mcguffins
By "primitive form" you mean putting two screens in front of your eyes. Wow sure is vr right here. Realistically noone has any idea how transporting a whole consciousness into an electric device would work, so writers who have even less clue resort to using pseudo science buzzwords without knowing what the fuck they're talking about. There's no problems like that in a fantasy world, you just decide how things work and they work like that.
>>142097530
Ever heard of this thing called waifu?
What do you think it would happen if people could touch them?
>>142097721
Terrible terrible crimes.
>>142097690
and your argument is "hurrhurr no arguments allowed cuz opinions r stuped" disregarding any sort of objective stand point on how making a story elaborate affects the writing
>>142097749
Do you even know what objective means?
>>142097709
Holy shit you're even dumber than I could have imagined. Not only do you think that his concept requires 'transportation of consciousness' to work you also seem to keep arguing that it's as realistic of a concept as fantasy world. Stop arguing right now, leave /a/ and fucking end your life because there is no future for a retard like you.
>>142097776
so now you're resorting to semantics to deflect into yet another strawman, wow you should be a politician
>>142097793
> it's as realistic of a concept as fantasy world
Because it is you deluded /v/tard.
>>142097709
>sao has no plot holes!
That's not what I said. Don't be dishonest like that. I said that the PREMISE ITSELF doesn't necessitate any plot holes. I'm not talking about SAO: I'm talking about the premise of SAO. Please acknowledge that important difference.
>>142097709
>Realistically noone has any idea how transporting a whole consciousness into an electric device would work, so writers who have even less clue resort to using pseudo science buzzwords
That's a non-issue. You don't need to invent pseudo-science to explain such things, because we know that brain activity is electrical in nature, and because of that, there's nothing conceptually difficult to grasp about the idea of some advanced technology being able to override the sensory aspect of brain activity.
The secret is for the writer to leave the exact details of the technology unexplained.
>>142097738
Well that too
Most of the time even
>>142095787
Out of all the shit wrong in SAO, I actually liked this guy. I'd totally have done the same thing. Who wouldn't wanna play god?
>>142097843
So it's just a curious thing that sao, .hack and pretty much any vrmmo anime has been a plot hole ridden shitfest. What a coincidence.
>You don't need to invent pseudo-science to explain such things
>proceeds to talk about vague pseudo science
Ok.
>The secret is for the writer to leave the exact details of the technology unexplained.
So have a restriced unexplained cookiecutter world, wow sure is better than just writing a fantasy world.
>>142097749
>>142097801
Dude. I was just saying that you two to point out the "shit" on the shitty writing.
I'm not arguing that it's not shit.
Just fucking read my post for fuck sake. >>142097504
I'm not even this guy. >>142097776
We're not even talking about SAO. Fuck this thread.
>>142097801
You are totally right. Lets have a conversation.
Assuming that you are still the same person.
Is it correct to summarize you as having said that you think that the motivations of the antagonist are lazy writing?
I disagree with that statement.
If that statement is actually what you believe can you expand on your thoughts? What is it about those motivations that you find lazy?
If that is not what you were trying to convey respond with what you actually would like to say.
>>142097346
Don't tell me to fuck off, son. Bad things happen to little shits who give me lip. You won't get a second chance.
>>142097894
>So it's just a curious thing that sao, .hack and pretty much any vrmmo anime has been a plot hole ridden shitfest.
When you tried to give me an example of a plot hole you gave me something totally unrelated to the premise, so yes. It apparently is unironically just a coincidence.
What plot hole is there that the premise itself necessitates? I think there isn't one.
>>142097894
>The secret is for the writer to leave the exact details of the technology unexplained.
>So have a restriced unexplained cookiecutter world
How the fuck did you go from 'leaving specific details of scientific jargon unexplained' to 'the whole world is unexplained and cookiecutter'? That's not a logical progression, that's a brain-fart.
>>142095787
You underestimate the power of boredom.
>>142097936
saying that he did everything because "he was a crazy psychopath" is lazy writing, at least give some moral reasons to his actions, whether it's seen right or wrong by the modern consensus or some elaborate psychology, like jung or something, that makes for interesting writing
even fucking /tg/ would tell you that making a bbeg with the motivation of "he was crazy" is garbage ass lazy writing even for a gm
>>142097977
>It apparently is unironically just a coincidence.
Sure. A recurring pattern with a single common factor is just an unlucky coincidence. For someone who loves science so much you sure like disregarding everything about the scientific method.
Well you know the fact that it's supposed to be "realistic" when in actuality there's nothing realistic about it if you take 2 minutes to consider it is pretty much an incessant plothole in itself.
The whole thing is based around pseudo scientific jargon though (VRMMO). If you just leave that out you have nothing.
>>142098027
He did have reasons for his actions. When he discusses that stuff at the end with Kirito and Asuna you see that they come to the realisation that for all of their struggles, they still ultimately had a life-changing experience that helped them mature as people.
Doesn't mean his actions were justified, but he at least had vague reasons for his psychopathic actions.
>>142098141
> they still ultimately had a life-changing experience that helped them mature as people
it sure didn't help the people who died because of it
>vague reasons for his psychopathic actions
so shit writing okay
>>142096081
whens the last time we have a villain do that though? Its not your revenge or world domination trope let alone the my ideals should be the only true ideals
>>142098267
writers don't use it because it's the absolute bottom of the barrel writing, admitting that you're a shit writer with no creativity
>>142095787
>watching/reading/being interested in Normie Art Online
>>142095787
I thought the point was that he loved video games and wanted to share the thrill.
>>142098027
Is your idea of lazy that you could have thought of a different or more detailed way of doing things?
Or that you wanted a moral justification for the antagonist?
Or that you wanted a third external view of the whole thing from the view of the society?
Also why jung is there something jung had to say about the whole locking people in a box to fight monsters thing that I don't know about?
Your last line is slipping back into the not really an argument corner.
>>142098097
>For someone who loves science so much you sure like disregarding everything about the scientific method.
Actually, I'm holding true to a very important principle of making inferences in the scientific method: correlation=/=causation.
And that's incidentally what I've been trying to get across to you this whole time: there's no causal factor that links that premise to a specific plot hole. I've been repeatedly asking you for just one example of a plot hole which that premise naturally causes, but you've been completely unable to provide one.
>Well you know the fact that it's supposed to be "realistic" when in actuality there's nothing realistic about it if you take 2 minutes to consider it is pretty much an incessant plothole in itself.
The use of possible future technology as a plot device is not in and of itself a plot hole. That's about as ridiculous as calling every mecha and space anime 'full of plotholes'.
What's more: there's nothing inherently scientifically impossible about VR technology. Neuroscience is a very young field with oodles of potential for innovation left.
Do you understand what I've been asking for when I've asked for examples of 'plot holes' now? I'm defending the premise, and I'm asking for an example of a plot hole which comes with the premise as baggage, because I still think that none exist, and you've still not provided an example of one.
>tfw still think of Shin Angyo Onshi every time I see the acronym SAO
>get a short subconscious pang of joy followed by a sinking feeling as I realize the reference is to this shitty series
>>142098396
>Shin Angyo Onshi
>not a shitty series
>>142098356
why are you asking so many questions when your reading comprehension is this bad?
a 5 years old can think of a more detailed way of doing things, not neccesarily but that would've been more interesting
> some elaborate psychology, like jung or something, that makes for interesting writing
learn to read buddy
your whole post has no arguments, just asking things that you would know if you had a lick of reading comprehension
>>142098438
>implying I stated that
>>142098460
I can't do this anymore.
>>142098381
I've just pointed out a significant correlation with the setting so the whole "correlation causation" argument is moot.
>The use of possible future technology as a plot device is not in and of itself a plot hole.
It kinda is though, either you derail into being a mcguffin which basically just declares it as fiction and not realistic in any sense or you cling to being realistic and end up with plotholes like the vr stories are.
>mecha and space anime
Just as I've said, those hold no claims to be realistic in any sense, they're just fiction. Mecha in no way is more realistic than wizards, and it never pretends to be, you're saying that vr is more realistic than fantasy, which is false.
>there's nothing inherently scientifically impossible about VR technology. Neuroscience is a very young field with oodles of potential for innovation left.
Aka noone has any fucking idea about it and there's proof what so ever that it's possible but you still cling to it being more "realistic" than fantasy. That sure sounds like a good basis for a writer who has little to no scientific knowledge.
>you've still not provided an example of one
I did, you just disregard everything for the sake of this inane pointless promise of a setting that only /v/tards are obsessed with.
>>142095787
You now realize why Hitler started WW2 and put the stakes higher and higher.
Congratulations!
>>142097559
Yoshii did nothing wrong
>>142098490
>implying you didn't imply that
>>142099219
>implying my "implication" wasn't just product of your conflict seeking imagination
>>142099244
>implying you aren't backpedaling right now
>>142098631
>I've just pointed out a significant correlation with the setting so the whole "correlation causation" argument is moot.
You have it completely backwards. The 'correlation doesn't prove causation' argument is precisely for and most applicable to situations like this.
>or you cling to being realistic and end up with plotholes like the vr stories are.
NAME ONE. You still haven't. The only 'plot hole' you've brought up this whole time had absolutely nothing to do with the premise.
>>142095787
He dreamed with a fantasy world and wanted to make it real. The only way to make it "real" was to make it so people's lives were at stake with the fighting there.
>>142096817
>innocent
>>142100417
I'm pretty sure most of us were "innocent" when we came here first.
Heathcliff, Heathcliff
No one should
Terrorize the MMOs
As stupid as he was, at least he wasn't as bad as the Alfheim baddie.
I can understand wanting to play a king in MMO, but what's the fucking point of locking yourself up in a tower, never showing yourself to players of the game and just sitting in one fucking room all day?
At least Heathcliff took part in the game, this dude didn't do shit.
>>142096259
>>Kirito is the strongest and most badassest because I said so and the mechanics in this MMO make no fucking sense
>Dual wielding
>Nobody but Kirito can use it
>Doubles damage and attack speed because 2 swords > 1 sword
>>142096615
The glopping semen tech is real
>>142096646
I would, but without actually killing them.
For example fake the whole thing, by doing a experiment. They would think it's a study of living in a simulated MMORPG environment for a long time. Then I would disable respawn and tell them that I kidnapped everyone and turned the whole thing into a death game.
Same deal, none of the edginess.
>>142101132
Hah! Nice.
>>142095787
He was still a better villain than the "thing" that was shoehorned in to rape the main girl.
>>142100908
He didn't actually give a fuck about the MMO besides his narcissism for being king, the reason he was actually running that game was so he could experiment on the SAO survivors he'd nabbed and sell the mind control tech developed to militaristic countries.
He didn't actually give a shit about appearing to the playerbase like Kayaba did
I know SAO isn't high end writing, but do you fags pay attention, like at all, before you ignore the actual gaping plotholes and constantly make yourselves look stupid nitpicking the few things in the story that actually make sense?
>>142100908
The objects of his villainy were Asuna and the rest of the players still locked in the game. Each of them were up in that tower. Heathcliff was a gamer and his motives were centred around making the game something special. Sugou was not a gamer and couldn't care less about the majority of the players or the game world. It was just a front for his experiments. Experiments which received very little focus in the story for the reason that they had little to actually do with the game.
The point is that he did shit and the problem is that we don't see the details of it.
>>142101132
Then those on the outside who actually pulled the helmets off would find that it doesn't fry brains and everyone would be pulled out.
>>142095787
It maybe lazy.
But I would totally do it. With the same motive.
>>142101418
cause VR tech is power basically
and heath is a GM
and Asuna basically undies because love magic or the system was shutting down
and kirito got a magic computer program because
and kirito got duel wield because
and kirito could solo everything everyone else needed armies to win against because
and he just collects girls for some reason who want to fuck him although he's already stated he's into asuna
and then he awakes from the coma and immediately goes to play another MMO where it happens all again
>>142101807
Nice list, but I was replying to anon's nitpicking of Oberon and his actions and not Heathcliff and Kirito's final fight
So yeah, more proof for my assertion of "Do you guys even pay attention?"
What was the name of that manga where MC kills his teammates?
>>142095787
Kawahara is a hack.
>>142095787
I'm pretty sure his motivation was to be a god. (create another sentient being). which is the whole point of that godawful alicization arc.
>>142101132
Except your bluff would be called by someone pulling the nervgear off and if it didn't kill the wearer, they would just mass pull them all off.
