Considering he's supposedly 2/3 god (which is mathematically impossible, but whatever), isn't Gil actually really weak compared to Berserker, who's only a demigod and would still beat or tie him in every personal stat but luck even without the madness enhancement, and Saber who isn't a god at all?
I mean, the whole idea is supposed to be, he's the guy upon whom the concept of hero was built, so you'd think on the basis of that sort of trope he'd be the strongest, but really its just that his toys are the strongest and he was bellow expectations in every other way.
Oh, and also, he's an idiot. I mean, none of the servants outside of Medea or maybe Archer are what I would call good analytical thinkers, but he really takes the cake.
>>141201322
2/3 God means you're a demi-god
>>141201322
>Fate being badly written chuuni shit
How surprising.
If you think Gil's stats matter at all you completely missed the point of his character. Stats don't mean shit, normal rules about servants don't mean shit. His NP is broken in an immeasurable way, and NPs decide servant fights 99% of the time, ergo he wins fights while standing around gloating and barely even trying.
Herc is a big ball of stats with an immortality NP. For most servants that makes him an unkillable monster they can never beat. For Gil it means it takes slightly longer to kill him.
>it's just his toys are the strongest
Think of it like country.
Gilgamesh is a modern country with beyond imagination high tech arsenal while the other servants are barbaric countries with only 2 at most second hand secret weapons.
>>141201840
>>141201908
The whole point he's making is that he's only strong because of what he possesses rather than intrinsically, despite Herakles power coming from being a demigod, and Gil being more divine than him. Hell, Lancelot is stronger than him and he's completely human and from the Age of Man rather than the Age of Gods..
It makes zero sense.
>>141202006
>Lancelot is stronger than him and he's completely human and from the Age of Man rather than the Age of Gods
So is Gawain, and they both come from a time when humans were exactly the same as they are in modern times too, as confirmed by the scene in UBW showing Arturia being just as weak as an ordinary 14 year old girl when she doesn't use Prana Burst.
Shit's retarded.
>>141201410
I think what he meant was that Gil's lineage conformed to the usual pair of parents each with a pair of their own parents and so on, so that a fraction like 2/3 is normally impossible
>>141202091
Basically Gil's mom Ninsun was a goddess. He had a mortal father (Lugalbanda) and another god joined the threesome.
Ergo 2/3s god.
>>141201840
What I'm saying is, why isn't he both?
Gil didn't really kill Berserker, after all, his toys did. He's not even strong enough to through the things himself. He's really really weak.
Divinity isn't always related to power. His soul on the other hand, can fill a fucking grail by itself.
>>141202164
I would know, being a wizard, but I don't think that's how it works.
>>141201322
>Oh, and also, he's an idiot.
Yea, but nobody in Fate really behaves too logically. It's just poor writing
>>141202263
We know that today, but the Sumerians didn't know any better
>>141202246
So you're saying his soul is really powerful...but he's actually weak, or mediocre at best. If his soul is so, er, big, why isn't that reflected in him being really strong?
>>141201512
Divinity isn't always everything anon, also gil was suposedly has a large if not the largest magical energy, but since his master is shit he got nerfed while hercules' stats are buffed with mad enhancement. Berserker's strength wasn't based from his divinity, it's from his legend
>>141202348
Who are you quoting
>>141202396
I am an idiot
>68 kilos at 182 cms
Is he auschwitz mode under all that armor? I'm 69-70 at 174 and I look like I just escaped from birkenau
>>141202323
>but he's actually weak, or mediocre at best
No. Where would you get that idea? His stats might not have much use to him but he is by no means weak
>>141202164
That's 3/4s
>>141202305
I'm pretty sure they handled things the same way as we did.
>>141202303
No, really, at most, everyone else is just either committed to some sort of ideal in a way that makes them act in a way that seems dumb...but Gilgamesh, even for this cast of characters is really quite an idiot.
I mean, the moment Shiro started countering his sword-spam, he should have remember he'd not that much more agile or strong than a mage using strengthening and put on his armor at least. The whole idea is supposed to be that he's arrogant because he's so powerful that he's not going to sully Ea with a mongrel---but how does he not think, Oh shit, I'm actually not really that strong in the first place, so if I can't just win by shooting weapons, I should probably try using some of my weapons that are the only reason I always win.
Did he just forget his had C endurance and agility? I don't see any other way to explain it.
>>141202455
No, Japan just doesn't use weight correctly when it comes to anime and the like.
>>141202323
>A or B rank strength
>Weak
What are you smoking?
>>141201322
2/3 god is possible because it's how the sumerians believed divinity worked, 1/3 from father, 1/3 from mother, 1/3 from womb. The Sumerians would have probably said Jesus was 1/2 god, since his father was divine and he was born in a mortal womb.
However Gilgamesh really hates the gods just like in his legend so his divinity rank is lowered to 1/3 sometimes.
Gilgamesh is a great character because of his flaws. Archer Heracles would be able to give him a much better fight but would still lose because of Enkidu. Berserker Heracles, especially with mad enhancement and protecting Illya stood no chance.
Saber is different because of Avalon and because Gil wants to fuck her so he holds back.
>>141202323
He is strong tho. Just a little weaker than saber. Besides a normal human he is still a monster. People talk about normal humans like saber, lancelot and such, but they aren't normal humans anymore. They're servants. Anyway, Gilgamesh fought with saber and he blocked fucking excalibur with his arms. He is strong, he just doesn't have the best technique.
>>141202520
>I'm pretty sure they handled things the same way as we did.
They didn't know anything about sperm and eggs and whatnot so a child having three parents from some weird-ass divine threeway would seem totally plausible to them
>>141202323
>why isn't that reflected in him being really strong?
He is strong, he just can't match the strongest melee servants in combat nor has the weapon skill to keep up with them. It's much easier and quicker to just shoot them with NPs
>>141202348
so what tier did you fall into?
>>141202348
He didn't even have a master in the original game, he's using his own power and that's actually being enhanced with a bunch of orphans too.
If legend-status is what gives you power, Gil should have been weaker than Avenger seeing as nobody even knew who he was until 100 years ago and even now few outside of college world lit classes ever here of him.
>>141202625
>If legend-status is what gives you power
Legend status is just a minor buff on top of what you already have.
>>141202567
Gil's armor is pretty strong, which is why in UBW when he wears his slavshit he's vulnerable.
He's incredibly cocky but the point is that his NP is so strong that he wins so many fights just from it. Caster, Berserker, Saber without Avalon, F/Z Rider are all really powerful servants that he just absolutely destroys. Gilgamesh is really good at reading his opponent, better than Archer, it's just that he fights completely differently which means he's much less effective versus someone who can counter his swordspam such as Shirou or Lancelot.
>>141202591
But that doesn't make sense, if he's like some sort of demigod above other demigods, he should not only have all the best weapons, he should be the strongest, the most agile, etc. If its based on his legend of whatever, he should have literally nothing but GoB because he's the hero with the absolute smallest legend among the bunch---I believe that his obscurity was part of the reason Nasu chose him as one of the main antagonists.
>>141202740
>-I believe that his obscurity was part of the reason Nasu chose him as one of the main antagonists.
Correct, he wanted a well known hero to be a villain (Hercules) and a relatively old and unknown one as well (Gilgamesh)
>>141202484
Not the way they figured it back then. They basically considered everyone who took part in the conception to have an equal share. So God + God + Mortal = 2/3 God offspring.
But lel mythology.
>>141202740
The more ancient the legend, the more powerful. Gilgamesh is the earliest written legend in human history. He's not a demigod above other demigods either, that's just based off the beliefs of the sumerians. If Gil has GoB, what reason is there for him to practice extensively in hand to hand combat? If regular swordspam fails, he can fall back on Enkidu and Ea, or bring out the bigger stuff from GoB.
>>141202835
That's the point though, Gil's legend is 100 years old. Being the oldest written legend in history doesn't really count for much if your legend was forgotten for most of the time it was written.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure the 2/3 divinity is for real in Fate. I guess his hatred of the Gods hurt his divinity rating somehow...but I don't know if that means the gods took away his power or his distaste for them made him lose it. Or why didn't it weaken his NPs somehow if it hurt all his other stats?
>>141203135
>Gil's legend is 100 years old
Just because we can't read it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
>>141201840
But can his NP stand againstMessiah? :^)
>>141203135
>Being the oldest written legend in history doesn't really count for much if your legend was forgotten for most of the time it was written.
Actually it does as evidenced by Gilgamesh
Reminder those are Heracles' stats WITHOUT including the ME.
>>141203198
Do you actually know what a legend is?
>>141203223
The fact that he's got the oldest legend seems to only matter in that he's got the prototypes of all the NPs---as i pointed out, he's, you know, really pretty weak for a guy who's supposedly more than half god.
>>141203135
>Being the oldest written legend in history doesn't really count for much if your legend was forgotten for most of the time it was written.
Kind of incorrect, it's pretty much said that they put in Heracles as the strongest famous heroic spirit and then they chose Gil as the strongest relatively unknown heroic spirit
>>141201322
Gil stats are higher in Zero and CCC. In FSN he is just nerfed by Kotomine.
Also he shows he is actually smart when he is not being horny or prideful. In other words he is careless.
>>141203507
>really pretty weak for a guy who's supposedly more than half god.
Except he's not? Only the strongest heroes who specialise in melee combat can beat him in melee combat can beat him melee combat
>>141201322
Let's say 5 generations ago, his 32 great great grandparents were 11 humans and 21 gods, that would make him almost 2/3 God.
>>141203529
I think Nasu mentioned in an old interview, that Hercules was planned to be the original end boss and his 9 Lives trait was gonna be even more hax as it was gonna be shared with Illya.
This was back when Medusa was originally suppose to be Ayako since Ayako was originally intended to be the character design of Medusa.
I think Nasu said he just flipped random library books and ended up with Gilgamesh because it was one of the easiest names to spell from Sumerian mythology.
>>141203595
>9 lives
It's 12 m8, that NP is called God Hand.
Nine Lives is something that he actually can't use as a berserker. But from what we know it can be considered utterly broken as a NP.
The Einzbern's kind of went full retard when they summoned him in his weakest class.
>>141203507
>Do you actually know what a legend is?
Do you think Nasu cares?
>>141203548
Well, more by the Grail taint and his retarded prana source than by Kotomine.
Kotomine's not even providing prana.
You can't power King of Heroes level stats with a handful of orphans.
>>141203632
>The Einzbern's kind of went full retard when they summoned him in his weakest class.
Blame Saber and Kerry for that
>>141203675
Shame they didn't know Heracles had a ''protector of lolis'' mindset before doing it
>>141203507
Nah B rank strength is no joke. Which is why it's baffling that Shirou managed to pin him down in close quarters. Gilgamesh is a shitty swordsman but even one glancing blow on Shirou's swords should have shattered his arm.
>>141203774
>Which is why it's baffling that Shirou managed to pin him down in close quarters
Because he gains stat and skill buffs when he wields the NPs, literally the only reason he can keep up
>>141203584
I know, I actually tried to work it out one day, and you can get close but never exactly 2/3.
>>141203774
Shirou gains the power and skill to wield the weapon instantly when he grabs it, without gamebreaking buffs like that he simply can't keep up with Gilgamesh even when he's not in his top form. There's a lot more than just direct hard counter that allows Shirou to win the fight
>>141203774
Because he is hercules when using 9 Lives.
That is how UBW works, Shirou did not lift up that Axe Sword.
Hercules lifted up that axe sword of Shirou's.
>>141203774
>Gilgamesh is a shitty swordsman
I wouldn't say that, he does fight with Saber in melee combat and keeps up. Shirou's UBW is simply unfair
>>141203800
>>141203849
>>141203868
Okay that makes sense, though I don't like the explanation. It's Emperor Time all over again.
>>141203914
Neither do I, the plot bends over backwards to allow Shirou to win the fight.
>>141201322
>Oh, and also, he's an idiot. I mean, none of the servants outside of Medea or maybe Archer are what I would call good analytical thinkers, but he really takes the cake.
You see INT anywhere on that as a stat? Me neither.
>>141203135
Once again, divinity has nothing to do with direct physical power and neither does the power of one's soul. Why is this idea so hard for you to grasp? Heck, most demigods in legends weren't all that strong physically either. Zeus had countless bastards and even among them Herukles was ridiculously strong, with most not being actually known for any amazing feats of pure strength.
>>141201322
Gil's quite intelligent and wise. Problem his wisdom takes a nose dive when dealing with weak to average tier enemies since his hubris blinds his judgement.
>be demi-god
>get rekt by a japanese ginger because you're a spoiled shit who can't actually fight
>said ginger also fucks you're waifu
Literally pay2win: the servant and on top of that a loser and a cuck.
What a joke of character.
>gilfags will defend this.
>>141203308
Where his VN stats including the madness boost? Because from what I remember Illya never actually made him use it.
>>141204358
If wisdom takes a dive when its most needed, it's the same as not having it at all. It's like being Invisible Boy from Mystery Men.
He's strong because he has a counter to everything in his vault
but in practice, he has an ego problem and that gives him openings
>>141204358
He also can't react to what he doesn't know
If knew about Avalon he could probably counter that.
>>141201322
Okay bare with me I think I got this, 1 god fucks mortal and makes a half god, half god fucks mortal and makes quarter god, quarter god fucks mortal and makes 1/8th god, 1/8th god fucks another god and makes a 60 something% god.
That's roughly 2/3rds?
I wish Fate mythology was half as interesting as real world mythology.
>>141203529
The Epic of Gilgamesh may be the oldest written legend but it's sure as fuck not the oldest legend we know of. Dyēus Ph2tēr slaying a three-headed chthonic serpent to free the rain/moisture god is almost certainly much older. And the Epic of Gilgamesh itself is not a Sumerian work but an Akkadian compilation and partial expansion of earlier isolated Gilgamesh myths of Sumer.
