So the 2015 survey of wages in the anime industry is out. As expected, being an animator or worse still, an inbetweener is a surefire way to experience financial hardship.
Inbetweener: $869 per month avg
Key animator: $2209 per month avg*
*unless you're some top-tier animator then it can go as high as $9000 per month
And the wage ranges of the various production roles. Note the large range so there are a handful of people who earn way above their peers.
>Monthly income increases with average age
Maybe it's fair?
>>141042619
Holy shit
>>141042862
Kinda hard for inbetweeners to hang on to their job in order to progress given the low wages. I doubt they afford rental for a low-end Tokyo apartment.
holyshit. that's bleak.
Makes you wonder what the dropout rate is like for new animators. Not everyone can stomach the low pay and long hours.
And the funny thing is that even if by some funny twist of fate anime studios will start making more money, wages for lower tier workers will not increase since it's the norm. Why pay more for the same amount of work when you can hire more people or even better - outsource to Koreans?
>>141042941
They must be living with their parents.
¥2million (¥166.6k a month) is considered relative poverty, so yeah, that's a rough first decade. Around 16% of Japanese people fall in that category.
The solution of course is to work 25 hours a day.
>>141043554
Unions must be very weak in Japan.
>>141043540
>parents
But Japanese people don't have sex. How are they supposed to have parents?
Why are they paid so low? I can never understand how they determine what to pay which job.
>>141043415
>outsource to Koreans
Worst Korea is getting pricey these days, now more work is going to China.
>>141043603
The older generation apparently had.
>>141043616
1) Japan is in one hell of an economic crisis. The only reason people don't know how badly Japan is in debt is that the Japanese debt is held by Japanese people and they're doing their best to keep the ship afloat.
2) Because otaku make up a tiny part of the Japanese population. There is very little money in the business, anime is an expensive product and there's lots of anime getting made.
>>141043616
Amount of qualification needed to do the job, importance for business/public, demand.
so do they make anime because they actually want to create it or do they actually think they could make a serious living off it?
http://ask.fm/valerauko/answers/135891649779
The anime industry sounds like a stressful place to work
>>141043616
They are paid by the cut, you work less you get less, maybe you want to get into the industry and want some practice but still isn't enough for you to live/you're simply not skilled enough yet to live off it so you do this and something else and you end up getting less, I think this ends up lowering the average as well.
>>141043597
Good. If they were forces to pay more than people deserve for these positions they wouldn't be able to afford to make anime and we would be stuck with shitty american cartoons like we are stuck with shitty chink products
>>141043698
What's the actual amount? I'm an americunt so i'm gonna be living in debt for the rest of my life so I'm wondering how bad other countries are.
>>141043786
>Actually I've heard TV PAs complain how at this point there's no real difference between domestic animators and outsourcing to China.
>>141043881
Japan is in a much better position than the US. The main difference to Greece is that no foreign country has a real stranglehold over Japan.
The difference to the US is that while the Japanese don't really go for socialism or unions, they don't really leave their own kin in the shit.
There are no Japanese ghettos and there won't be.
>>141043881
US national debt is weak shit compared to Japan. It's over one quadrillion yen, which is double their GDP.
>>141043721
Is Japan realizing that whenever anyone thinks about Glorious Nippon, for better or for worse, anime is the first thing that usually comes to their mind?
They should realize the business has potential and stop trying to shut it down.
>>141043963
>>141044012
Is it in the eyes of the beholder or what?
>>141043847
Except American productions have like 100 times the budget of Japanese.
>>141044066
No, by the numbers Japan's crisis is horrible.
But they don't let it get out of control.
>>141043698
You are a retarded faggot and need to stop talking out of your ass.
>Because otaku make up a tiny part of the Japanese population.
Kids watch anime, teenagers watch anime.
Anime has been cheap as fuck since the '60s thanks to our dear friend Osamu Tezuka.
>>141044017
>They should realize the business has potential and stop trying to shut it down.
Nobody is shutting it down. On the contrary, the Japanese government has schemes which throw money into it.
>>141043963
Not really. Japan's GDP has grown virtually 0% since 1995.
And childhood poverty in Japan is higher than in America. They just do a better job of hiding it.
>>141044017
They've warmed up to it. A lot of state-sponsored materials for learning Japanese mention animu as a reason many people want to learn glorious nipponese. At this point they'll take it.
>>141044094
Oh, is that big stink with the olympics over? Or was that only about ecchi stuff iirc?
>>141042736
>those animators who earn more than everyone
14 million yen a year still isn't much.
I'm pretty sure some shitty storyboard artists who just graduated from CalArts earn just as much if not more than superstar key animators like Yutapon or Inoue.
>>141044091
Do those kids buy BD's at 500+$ For a single cour anime? I think not.
>>141044091
>Kids watch anime, teenagers watch anime.
Do they buy expensive BDs or erotic models?
No?
Then unless we're talking about stuff like Fairy Tail you are being a stupid faggot and making no point at all.
>>141044091
We're talking about nighttime anime, faggot.
>>141044132
Are you serious? It's just one district in Tokyo and the main target is anime CP.
>>141044017
Yeah but the reason why they want to shut it down is because they don't want other people to think of anime the second they hear about Japan. Only kids and otaku REALLY watch anime in Japan, for everyone else its just something you might occasionally catch on TV or you might buy one series out of a hundred simply because you enjoyed just that one show so much. The ones who really fund anime are, like I said, kids and otakus and the latter is highly frowned upon. I can see why Japan wouldn't want to be known for something they as a country aren't super proud of but the fact of the matter is that anime IS extremely popular outside of Japan where even normalfags can watch it and still lead productive lives. If they wanted to, they certainly COULD create a really nice revenue but Japanese people still hold onto their pride and they would never cater to baka gaijins for that alone.
>>141044150
They buy plenty of useless merch. It's cheap, but may sell a lot in numbers.
>>141044204
I didn't really pay it much attention so I don't know details.
>>141044106
So, does child poverty in Japan mean the same thing as child poverty in the US, with no hopes for ever getting anywhere because your school is shit and you're never going to be hired?
I think not.
That is not to say the Japanese are in a good situation. Getting hired is a pain in the ass when companies only offer short-term contracts and having a resume full of short-term contracts is the same in Japan as being a prostitute.
>>141044153
Here's your reply.
>>141044150
No, but their parents will buy shitty toys and shitty video games.
>>141044173
Where did OP indicate any of that? What makes you think the slaves working for Toei are somehow getting paid more just because they are making glorified toy commercials? Fucking retard.
>>141044242
So are my chinese cartoons lying to me when high school students talk about that anime they watched last night?!DO GIRLS NOT MOLEST EACH OTHER IN THE WOMENS BATH EITHER?!?!?!
So will any country with a declining population experience this? If GDP hasn't grown, but there are less people, wouldn't actually mean GDP Per Capita has actually gone up? Just eyeballing these statistics makes me sort of think the average Japanese is better off now than they were in 1980, as counterintuitive as that sounds.
>>141044282
When you have nothing to say, you don't need to proclaim it that loudly.
>>141044313
It's wish fulfillment. They probably do talk about One Piece or other Shounen Jump flavour of the season adaptation though.
>>141044242
>Yeah but the reason why they want to shut it down is because they don't want other people to think of anime the second they hear about Japan
Just wanted to add that I didn't mean they aren't coming around to accepting this fact, like others have said. There are government sponsors to fund anime studios because it IS a good source of revenue internationally but its still something that as a whole they're not super proud of. Before government sponsors came up, I'm sure Japan wanted foreigners to think about their technology, their culture, anything other than anime, but they can't escape reality. But even with the sponsors, they're still not making anime FOR us.
The anime industry will first and foremost always have Japanese viewers in mind with international sales as a second thought but they're slowly accepting the idea that Japan = anime to the rest of the world.
>>141044397
Make me.
>>141044273
>So, does child poverty in Japan mean the same thing as child poverty in the US, with no hopes for ever getting anywhere because your school is shit and you're never going to be hired?
Yes, yes it does.
>>141043415
The Korean episodes of Valkyrie Drive were often better than the Nip ones. More consistent at the very least.
>>141042619
One thing that startles me is why chara designers are paid so much. Their input is not that great in terms of effort.
>>141044457
At this point its really too late. I mean, at least after watching a shit ton of SoL anime plus havinig to do research to understand the context of jokes in a lot of series, I did actually get into Japanese culture and think a lot of the stuff they do is really cool even if it is different.
The collective mindset can be good and bad at times. Yeah mostly everyone feels at home and shit but when stuff like this happens they close their minds and dont listen to any other reasoning but their own.
>>141044432
This. Japan isn't that different from the rest of the world in that only the most easily accessible shows reach a certain amount of popularity which allows them to be viewed by pretty much anyone. It also helps that shows like One Piece and DBZ make it easy to just sit down and catch an episode without necessarily having to have seen the previous one. Like the rest of the world, its the otaku who only really watch 'obscure' shows rather than just the entry level shit. For the most part, unless you're deep into the hobby you're not going to watch much past the big names and even fewer would watch something from the last decade. Thats how you can usually tell when someone isn't THAT much into anime when all they've seen are only the most popular series that aired on Western television and or the most popular from recent years like Shingeki no Kyojin or Jojo.
>>141042619
900 a month is fucking less than minimum wage. I can get more than that working as a walmart cashier
>>141044745
Depends on the costs of living.
>>141043698
>Japan is in one hell of an economic crisis
That is very very true. You thought last summer was crazy with Greece? Just wait for the time when Japan or the UK implodes. That's gonna be one hell of a ride.
>>141044776
I can't speak for the rural cities but places like Tokyo follow the same pattern as every other major city. The cost of living is expensive there and the space is very limited which drives the costs up more. That trope where anime characters have to work three or four part time jobs just to keep a tiny little apartment is actually true.
>>141044821
Our economy is riding on a raft made of barrels full of TNT that were used to replace the logs we lost in the 08 crash.
I for one am looking forward to seeing the world burn in the near future (because it'll mean I won a decade-old bet against some guy I haven't spoken to in years)
>>141044933
Did you forget that living space is usually provided by the studio?
>>141044937
But how will we get our Mongolian animated flashcards if that happens? Don't wish for something bad to happen just because you want to win an irrelevant bet.
>>141044204
>"anime CP"
An oxymoron is there ever was one. Hopefully there's still enough people there to tell dumb legislators and gaijin to fuck right off and leave everything alone.
>>141044969
I never said anything about animators. I said that the cost of living in cities like Tokyo is expensive, which is a fact.
>>141045032
>irrelevant bet
That's the only kind of bet that matters, because it's the only kind where you are in purely for being proven right, not for the reward.
I'm going to call him up and tell him he was wrong while all around us the world burns.
I have no other excuse to initiate a conversation with somebody. Please understand.
I don't really have anything too pertinent to say, but It just feels bad knowing that my favorite thing in the world is being made by people earning very little and struggling to get by, while also knowing that, as a foreigner, there's little to nothing I can do to help the companies.
>>141045105
It's cool. I hear in Gensokyo, there is no economical crisis and everyone lives comfortably.
>>141045142
You can travel to Japan for a few weeks and give every animator a head-pat.
>>141045172
I'd be up for that.
They're all cute lolis, right?
All this doom and gloom about Japan's economy is so overblown, it's not even funny. Yes, they aren't in a great spot, and yes, there is a lot of debt. But it's all owned by the Japanese. They honestly just need to have more kids, and it'll fix everything. If they don't do that, it's fine too. They'll just have to accept having a county with maybe 20 million fewer people, and adjust accordingly, less growth, etc. No need to import masses of immigrants of any of that shit, either they have more kids, or they adjust expectations of constant growth. Either way is fine.
>>141044106
>>141044273
>>141044608
That's not even true. If by child poverty you mean there are some families with children that are struggling, then yes, that's present everywhere. But people make it sound like these kids are living under bridges and in cardboard boxes, they would just be equivalent to kids in the U.S. that qualified for things like reduced lunch.
Well KAs are okay if they don't live in the pricest areas of Tokyo. Inbetweeners should get good really fast and become KAs because tweens are eventually going to be automated.
>>141045057
Their women did when the UN came and tried to get them to stop depicting sexual violence towards women in their drawings be cause it "violated women's rights".
>5000USD a month for a series director
Damn, that's not a lot at all, that's barely above starting salaries for quite a few STEM degrees.
>>141043623
>Worst Korea is getting pricey these days, now more work is going to China.
How the hell that happened? Is Korea getting better animation projects?
>>141045142
Buy BD's, or if you don't want to do that, plastic butts are an option, that's what I do.
>>141045625
Yeah, but stupid fucks are always trying to get things banned, loli, etc., have to be careful.
>>141045718
Japan does have a slightly lower average GDP per capita, so it's not as large a discrepancy. Even your average STEM degree there will usually make less then say the U.S. But at the end of the day, anime is niche, so the salaries reflect that.
>>141043847
>Good. If they were forces to pay more than people deserve for these positions they wouldn't be able to afford to make anime and we would be stuck with shitty american cartoons like we are stuck with shitty chink products
Ohh so naive
>>141042619
How much do mangaka outside of WSJ generally earn?
>>141046253
I would say lower about $5.00 per hour
>>141046051
The low wages and difficult working hours probably make for more passionate people and a lot of things that make anime different from US cartoons wouldn't exist, like use of limited animation, animators animating entire scences instead of just a character, and so on, but the difficulty of surviving on the salary definitely makes some potential greats quit before the have time to reach their potential.
>>141045254
I'm not sure these sluts count as lolis.
>>141044144
That's what, 120K a year in USD? That's quite a bit, honestly.
>>141042619
Why are the storyboarders all so old?
>>141043698
And in terms of demographics, that ship is basically the Titanic, right?
Do I hear a band playing "Nearer My God to Thee"?
>>141042736
That's some nice boxplot.
>>141042619
>869
>I get paid more than this driving around cars 8 hours a week as a student
top kek, fucking nips.
>>141044667
Character designs don't just make the characters and leave the rest to the staff, they also work fixing the discrepancies between each animator's art-style and making they all fit into the desired character design.
You should've watched Shirobako by now, you know?
>>141049015
>should've watched Shirobako
I'm not going to as the character designs put me off.
>>141052609
That would have worked if the character designs weren't good or extremely appealing. Now you're just coming off as an objective homosexual.
>>141048956
Why the fuck do you make 30 an hour driving cars around?
>>141045142
Get a CR subscription.
>>141046253
That's like asking how much a novelist earns. It's going to be vastly dependent on circumstances.
>>141042619
>3DCG
>Produces something a scene which generally lasts 1-2 minutes per episode
>That high
>>141042619
Christ I make more than an inbetweener in a week and about as much as a key animator a month. I bet the shithead producers that are ruining anime make like several times what a top key animator putting actual effort in does. The only real surprise here is that they apparently don't make the most versus series and chief animation directors. Character Designers being 4th highest paid makes sense since practically everything about this industry revolves around how much you can make otaku want to jerk off to your characters otherwise your shit isn't going to sell much.
>>141053493
Without even getting into how much time it takes, because I have no idea - you do realize that a shorter job means you can do more of them, right? This is yearly income, not per-anime income.
>>141043761
I'm honestly starting to wonder the same question myself. I don't think I could ever love anything that much to take borderline slave wages and 20 hour work days for it.
>>141053541
Wait, more than the yearly income? Because that's probably just you being rich.
>>141044242
Pretty understandable honestly. I mean when you see the kind of social rejects that watch and talk about anime nowadays period Japanese or Gaijin you can kind of understand the incredibly bad reputation anime has overall and why shit like in the picture happens.
>>141044457
I wish Japan could do more to promote it's cultural history through anime instead of just trying to glorify the otaku subculture through it which is like putting lipstick on a pig. That's something I kind of liked about Rakugo last season, but for every one of those there's like 50 throwaway otaku circlejerk harem/waifu things that are there to make a quick buck before moving on to the next one.
>>141053853
Find a different medium.
>>141053734
Wasn't that in China? And in any case, you may not really like what the guy is doing, but pouring water on him shows the type of faggot the guy is, who dicks with random people like that in public? It's some middle school shit.
>>141053853
>I wish anime would focus on non-anime culture instead of anime culture
Please, anon.
>>141044612
I wouldn't even doubt it. A lot of old vets proud of the tradition of Japanese animation have argued that Korea and China's animation industry will simply outstrip Japan's by the end of the decade just because they have actual drive and energy towards it while Japan is just interested in trying to strip mine otaku/fujos and cut corners wherever possible in doing so instead of training new animators or actually growing the industry and fan base. Even having Netflix and Amazon weigh in to the industry now isn't going to change that unless they say fuck it and continue sourcing things out to Korean studios or something .
>>141053980
What do you think about Aniplex?
>>141044457
Not even Japanese viewers so much as either socially fucked otaku filling out a niche purchasing layer or children who they can sell toys too. These days the shows aimed at the children are practically better made and conceived overall too.
>>141053853
I can assure you more people got interested in japan's history with anime like that gender bend nobunaga anime or fucking kancolle than things like Rakugo
>>141054108
>responding
>>141044821
With the way Abenomics are going it shouldn't be too much longer. They're practically predicting any month now. Lately I'm starting to think that the Japanese leaders both political and financial wise might be stubbornly and functionally retarded and just so stuck in their ways of thinking this is the way x has worked before and thus this is the way x will always work so I'm not considering y that they'll never be able to solve their economic crisis. At the very least I have zero faith in Shinzo Abe's government. Guy seems more concerned with projecting a strong man militarization image than actually doing anything to fix the domestic ailments of the Japanese people. Tojo 2.0 basically.
>>141042619
Toonami, Crunchyroll and Netflix will save anime.
>>141053884
I already have
>>141054292
Then go to its board and stop shitting up /a/.
>>141042619
The wages are surprisingly flat.
>I make more than an animation director
Japan; not even once.
>>141053965
There's that limited /a/ brand "I just started watching anime in the last few years" thinking again. Sorry but "anime culture" isn't specifically limited to otaku VN/LN reading PVC collecting culture and there was a time before late night anime and what we define as "otaku" and acceptable on /a/ was even a thing. That's literally just the image of anime that the current industry producers love to try to sell to people like the shitheads that seem to populate /a/ nowadays cause it's safe, easy and convenient for them but it doesn't really grow the industry or fanbase at all, just keeps a stream of revenue flowing.
TL;DR don't be fucking stupid anon and learn a thing or too.
>>141042619
>3dcg makes more money than key animator
anime is ded.
>>141052815
They are pretty bad though. The style jump between the males and females is too jarring. Plus all the female cast has sameface. I'm sure you are one of those people who praise Hisashi Hirai.
>>141054052
They aren't helping matters and have contributed the most to stagnating things of late IMO. They're probably the ones that mostly just seem concerned with lining their own pockets and don't seem to give a fuck about the anime industry or what happens to it in the long run.
>>141054272
why do any of that when you can just pay animators more
>>141054459
Fucking hell, your writing is so bad. Tried to read your post two times before moving on.
>>141042619
>miscellaneous tasks makes more money than the drawing parts.
>>141054356
No you'll take care of that yourself.
>>141054253
See >>141045282
Again, I don't understand why people think Japan's going to in any way shape or form collapse. It's just not going to happen. The country is wealthy, it's an educated industrialized society. The heavy easing they are currently trying should have been done decades ago, but it's the right idea. Maybe it doesn't pan out, and they only have 1% or so GDP growth from now on, and a population that stabilizes in the mid 90 million. That's perfectly fine. But for some reason everybody and their mother thinks the panacea is to just ship in millions of immigrants and that'll solve everything. They'll be fine.
>>141054554
A McDonalds employee makes more than an animator.
>>141054459
> "anime culture" isn't specifically limited to otaku VN/LN reading PVC collecting culture
Neither is "otaku culture". Those are just dominant trends in the current climate, and as long as those dominate the culture of anime otaku, they will dominate anime as well, because believe it or not, anime obsessives are pretty relevant to the anime industry. Shocking, I know.
>>141042619
Time to move to Japan and live the dream of being a production assistant.
>>141042619
>there are people who will argue about "wages are ok as long as they love their job"
Just look at the bottom part and compare it to living standards in Japan.
>>141054533
>>141054598
You're talking to Aniplex guy, retards. Stop.
>>141054652
>compare it to living standards in Japan
>Japan
Why? They're all Korean.
>>141054644
>the dream of making 29k USD a year
Here in the USA we call that dream 'poverty'.
>>141042619
The sad thing is this has been going on for decades.
>>141043616
None other than Inbetweeners and cleanup are paid low.
>>141054584
Why are these people treated like garbage when they're doing a lot of the work?
>>141043089
It's incredibly high apparently. I assume the only people who stick around are the crazy ones who really love their jobs in for the long haul.
>>141042619
>3DCG
Why even hire these guys? 3DCG is disgusting and it cost so much more.
>>141043089
>>141054800
They could probably make more money setting up a Patreon and drawing porn all day.
>>141054699
I lived off that amount for 2 years as an intern, it's totally fine.
>>141054707
>filename
>Animators
>ABe
>>141054699
>2k/2.4k is low wage
>>141054802
Maybe it saves them money to hire one 3DCG animator rather than several 'traditional' ones?
>>141054699
That's still like 30th percentile, it's not awful.
Japan's considering letting in more foreign workers to help their economy. They're carefully avoiding the "immigration" label, but it is what it is.
>>141054459
And there's that "everything now is moe, why can't it go back to the idyllic past of shows appealing to me, a person who contributes absolutely nothing to the industry" mentality again. Why the fuck do people think this?
We undeniable have more variety in shows now then ever before, there is legitimately something for everyone most every season, all types of shows are represented.
And it's pretty funny that you talk about growing the industry or fanbase, and derisively speak about keeping the revenue stream flowing. Putting aside the fact that again, there is something for everybody these days, and that, unfortunately I would say, there are a lot of new casuals in the western fanbase over the last few years, what they fuck do you contribute as part of this growing fanbase? What do any of the casuals who they would appeal to in your mind contribute? A $10 CR subscription? Pirated anime, manga, and VN's? It's the otaku who put their money where their mouth is and actually buy shit, pay for what they like, and support the things they want to see. No one else.
>>141054898
Stop making shit up, they've been letting Chinks, Koreans and Flipfags come in for fucking years. It's not a new thing.
>>141054898
They already have plenty of foreign workers though. Like the Brazilians of Japanese origin or Chinese 'farm trainees'.
How is Aoi not dead when all she eats is beer and microwaved convenience store food?
>>141054938
I said "more", you illiterate monkey.
>Signalling the shift, leading members of a ruling Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) panel on Tuesday proposed expanding the types of jobs open to foreign workers, and double their numbers from current levels of close to 1 million.
>>141042619
That's more than I make.
>>141054898
They always talk about this, and hopefully, like usual, nothing comes of it. It's such a stupid idea, instead of shipping in immigrants, make every single priority of the government about getting more native Japanese to have kids. That would legitimately solve almost all their economic issues. You can't do that, fine, accept a lower population, maybe around 90-100 million.
>>141054699
Let me guess, you live in Manhattan?
>>141055014
>hopefully
>not being spiteful and wanting Japan to crash and burn
If I can't have nice things, nobody can have nice things.
>>141055014
>>141055014
Presumably shipping in immigrants would be to help the economy/workforce in the near future, not ~20 years from now when those child-making policies would start having an effect..
>>141055031
Close enough.
The lowest tier jobs here are 50k starting.
>>141054699
I'd kill to make 29k a year.
I make 15k/y in the US.
>>141055084
Just tax the shit out of me senpai, take money from those who can invest and give it to those who can't. Clearly immigrants are the way to go.
>>141055014
You don't see the perfidy in this. Why change the law and labour practices, increase the minimal wage, spend money on childcare services, free higher education etc. and lower taxes if you can just import immigrants and treat them like shit, not providing them with any sort of benefits? It's money doing the talking.
>>141054598
I don't deny it. If there were a way for more anime to hit up the mainstream like Love Live and Osomatsu I'm sure they'd have done it by now but most people in Japan just want nothing to do with the medium because it's either "children's cartoons" or fodder for "vile filthy otaku"
>>141055155
I'm not supporting the decision, I'm just saying that telling people to fuck is not an alternative.
>>141044073
How does that contradict anything he wrote?
>>141047047
I don't think so, lolis are cute while these are bitches.
>>141043597
Nope
They just prefer enployment to wage increases.
>>141054782
Overwhelming greed and lack of foresight
>>141055282
>lack of foresight
I mean, it's worked out for about fifty years now, how much fucking foresight do you expect people to have?
>>141054929
If there's truly something for everybody than why are anime fans always so miserable to each other and always complaining. Sorry but it's clear that the industry leans overwhelmingly towards trying to target fanatical fan groups of whales with deep pockets that don't give a shit about anything other than how attractive the character designs look now. This is at least as far as late night anime goes, day time is a bit of a different story.
>>141055262
No, it's creating an environment in which people will naturally want to fuck.
>>141055050
I'd rather have the nice things I get from Japan continue.
>>141055084
Maybe, but at what cost? Why would you have people who can't speak the language, have no connection to the culture, etc, why would you want them in a homogeneous society. They have tons of examples in western Europe of how things can go badly. Nothing against immigration, but those people should know the language, and be willing to assimilate. And even then, it's not necessary here. I could see something like temporary increasing temporary work permits, so some immigrants who fit the above criteria can come work for a bit. Maybe.
But if you had a baby boom, it would by necessity fix their economic woes. Babies need shit. No way around it. You have to buy things to take care of them, tons of expenditure, would cause general economic growth, more taxes coming in, etc. They just need to financially and societally incentivize it. At this point, as much debt as they are in, it doesn't really matter how much more they tack on. Just give like a $50k cash sum for having a child, maybe mandate $25k has to be spent on stuff, who knows.
>>141055325
Same difference - it takes effect a generation from now at the earliest, that's not what they're trying to address here.
>>141054929
The casuals seem to contribute an excess of shitposting and really really stupid fucking opinions that they feel entitled too over those that actually have somewhat of a clue about what they are talking about and have seen enough shit from before the LN boom to compare and contrast.
>>141055358
>before the LN boom
When are you placing the LN boom? IS? Zero no Tsukaima? Boogiepop?
>>141044358
They are. 2014 GDP fell .5%. Per capita stayed the same though.
But when your livelihood stagnates or barely improves for 25 years, you'll feel way worse. Relative deprivation
>>141055347
>At this point, as much debt as they are in, it doesn't really matter how much more they tack on
I wouldn't be sure about this.
>>141055247
Love Live is fucking idolshit, if that's mainstream anime then I don't want any more of it.
>>141055357
Except that it doesn't. Children/kids grow, they need extra attention, food, furniture, a new place perhaps, a school/kindergarten place and general things kids just fucking need.
All of these things increase economic growth. If you think this birth rate "problem" is only related to work force, you're dead wrong.
>>141055319
>than why are anime fans always so miserable to each other and always complaining
Because we have nothing better to do with ourselves.
You are better off working in the vidya industry in nipland than anime Tbh.
>>141054699
It's only poverty if you insist on buying useless shit like new iPhones and eating out all the time. Or if you're retarded enough to live in a metropolis.
>>141044358
What a surprise but yes that is how it works and also what a good amount of people have been saying all along. Things don't look bad at all, the population decline will increase the general quality of life so wages are included. These things will fix itself, with the correct intervention of course.
>>141045282
>But it's all owned by the Japanese
Of the 250% of GDP in government debt, 120% is owned by foreigners.
Spain's debt in 2008 was almost completely domestic. Yet when everyone got scared the interest rates rose to 20%. Japan is no safer.
>>141055559
No jobs outside of big cities, shitlord.
>>141055084
I still don't understand how leeching off of welfare programs is supposed to help the economy.
This is why you join the Yakuza and make real CASH
You're the ones killing the industry by ilegally downloading anime.
>>141053928
You have no clue if that was staged or not. I think it was.
>>141054253
And you are correct.
>>141055709
We would never have paid in the first place. It's their fault for not making it easy for foreigners to support them.
Wow, character designer is pretty high
>>141055629
government expenditure multiplier
>>141055771
I'd never have paid even if it was "easier" (which I believe they decided was a bad idea based on reverse-importing possibilities). I have so many things I could do that don't cost money, no way I'm choosing something that does cost money as my main pasttime.
>>141055709
Jokes on you I could buy a BD set with extra points I gathered last year by buying anime.
>>141055227
It's just baffling though. There are methods available that would keep Japanese society culturally intact, but that would help them in the long run. Instead they debate importing people who wouldn't be able to even communicate in the native language, forget assimilating.
>>141055319
Because people like to bitch and complain? What type of reasoning is that? Again, you criticize them for targeting a specific group of people with "deep pockets" like it's some sort of negative here. Do you want them to live off of air alone? Do you see the shit money they make as it is? Why the fuck wouldn't they target people who actually buy their shit? This is an industry, a business, it's not charity. Even then, even with that being said, there are still tons of shows being made for all sorts of genres, labors of love that they know wont sell.
>>141055358
It's kind of depressing to see, but that's what it feels like.
>>141055469
It's true though. They keep increasing it anyways as is, trying to stimulate the economy, buying up their own debt, etc. But the rates they pay are practically zero. And it's because most is owned by Japanese anyways, and mostly because people know that there is no risk there. It's a wealthy country, as much as people try to doom and gloom. It's well-educated and industrialized, the foundations of the country are strong, at some point in time, debt becomes pretty abstract when compared to tangibles like increasing birth rate, kick starting the economy, etc.
>>141055594
Is that true? Do you have a source? I was under the impression that it was mostly owned by the Japanese. The point was though that they basically pay close to zero in interest, because people know that it's still a safe bet. Hell, I think they would want some higher interest rates, since that means there is inflation, and they need it.
>>141055404
Started in 2006 with Haruhi, peaked in 2009 with Bakemonogatari
>>141054573
>Again, I don't understand why people think Japan's going to in any way shape or form collapse.
They did economically in 1990, and again 1998-2002.
>It's just not going to happen. The country is wealthy, it's an educated industrialized society. The heavy easing they are currently trying should have been done decades ago, but it's the right idea.
Abenomics has failed and now the bill is coming due. They are going back into recession this quarter after one in 2014.
>Maybe it doesn't pan out, and they only have 1% or so GDP growth from now on, and a population that stabilizes in the mid 90 million. That's perfectly fine.
Maybe it is. I think they are simply the future of much of the developed world. But there's a strong chance they will not grow at all as well and things will get worse.
>But for some reason everybody and their mother thinks the panacea is to just ship in millions of immigrants and that'll solve everything. They'll be fine.
Only neoliberals and idiots think that. Most normal folk do not, and thankfully Japanese do not either.
>>141055709
I admit I download anime, just can't justify BD's for hundreds of dollars total for one show with no subs, at least not at the moment. But there are other ways to support it, plastic butts, light novels, etc.
>>141055710
It may have been, I don't know.
>>141055537
Get a job, have a social life and other hobbies, be happier. Seems pretty simple.
>>141055856
The Japanese political scene is made of old men. What do you expect? To them an idea of paying people to have kids is a blasphemy.
>>141054898
No citizenship. But guest workers have already been there forever. Nothing has or will change drastically.
>>141055913
You'd think more people would know about the 1990 collapse considering it was one of the most widely publicized and infamous in history. Before that 80's movies always liked to a show a future of a world economically dominated by Japanese business interests and ideas because that's just where the future seemed inevitably headed during the bubble years. Really Japan and even anime never fully recovered from the bubble bursting. You can just look at how the average anime movie, OVA or even TV series looked before 1991 and after too see the impact of it.
>>141043415
>outsource to Koreans
I hope the japs have the foresight to keep a least a bit of the industry in domestic hands. 'Murica outsourced all the animation it could in the 70s and 80s and it meant that when the old talented animators retired or died noone replaced them and the industry shrivelled up and died.
>>141055913
Yeah I saw an article just the other day on how the banks are meeting and preparing to go into debt collection mode which basically means instant recession. Abe is going over to Europe to try to strengthen ties with them this week. Unfortunately Japan just kind of sucks at choosing it's leaders though hold on tight because the USA might just one up them in a few more months.
>>141056112
Japan changes its prime minister every couple of months. Nothing can be done in this way.
>>141055913
>A quarter of a century of failure and economic stagnation has built a strong consensus on what ails Japan. All sources of analysis—domestic, foreign, government, corporate and nonprofit—identify two problems: the country’s aging demographics and its deeply entrenched, top-down approach to economic organization. This analysis is wrong. Demographics and entrenched structures are challenges facing Japan. The real problem is Tokyo’s inability to do any of the many things that might mitigate their ill effects.
See post about closed minded Japanese thinking and unwillingness or at best negligible sluggishness to adapt to changing global and domestic economic realities.
>>141055827
Just pay people $50k for a kid.
>>141055347
Japan already made enough anime to last a lifetime.
>>141056160
Japan hasn't changed its prime minister in almost four years.
If you're not making at least six figures by 25 years old, you should just quit your job.
If you're going to wage slave, at least do it right. Half-assing it with incomes of 35-80k is the biggest waste of your life. Might as well just collect neetbux and relax, instead of making a pathetic salary where you're throwing away your life.
>>141056231
>If you're not making at least six figures by 25 years old, you should just quit your job.
>people actually believe this
>>141055828
Speak for yourself then.
>>141056112
>Unfortunately Japan just kind of sucks at choosing it's leaders
It's not that simple, Japan's extremely centralized system barely gives anyone but the party in power a chance to win elections for example. Add the fact that the opposition is as incompetent as Hiroshima Nagasaki and you'll have a pretty bland land of election results.
>>141055913
When I say collapse, I mean in ways people seem to be implying here, total meltdown of economy and society. I'm aware of the "lost decades", but economic downturns, even severe ones, can be weathered.
I suppose we're in agreement on the rest, I think abenomics hasn't really panned out, but it wasn't a complete failure. I do think that their future is fine, in one shape or another. A smaller population with slower growth, but, like you said, that's what most industrialized societies are headed for. We'll have to see if common sense prevails on accepting that outcome, or their politicians go full retard and try to force immigration anyways.
>>141055955
And it's a shame.
>>141056205
More never hurts.
>>141056230
For now. It's an aberration in the trend.
>>141042619
>3DCG that high
>all the 3D in anime is complete garbage
>>141056346
You just have extremely high standards.
>>141056231
80K doesn't seem that bad. What do you do with all that money?
>>141056230
This is the biggest part of the problem and the guy was already in power before right around the last time the Japanese economy started to sag. Shinzo Abe is probably the worst Prime Minister Post WWII Japan has ever seen and every single idea he has had seems to have been an immensely bad if not borderline racist and sexist one. Honestly can't stand the guy.
>>141056271
It is a big problem when there's nobody to stand up to a particular party in a democracy which in this case would be the LDP and it's incredibly limited but boisterously stated thinking and platforms.
Also right now Japan has a problem where it's options are basically the ultra conservative party, the moderately conservative party, the somewhat conservative party and the communist party and guess which two are the ones with the most seats and which has the least
>>141056473
He had some racist and sexist ideas?
>>141056473
There is nothing wrong with conservatives. I don't know what your point is.
>>141056541
> immensely bad if not borderline racist and sexist one
He's clearly tumblr.
>>141055856
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt
Wiki says 60% but external debt leaves out a few other foreign owned debts.
http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21677648-despite-shinzo-abes-best-efforts-japans-economic-future-will-be-leap
Good read on this. But the notion they can just keep spending to the sky risks the problem that a 1% rise in bonds leads to insolvency in Japan.
>>141056541
They are very conservative with money.
>>141056047
That's a heavy exaggeration. No serious economist thought that would happen. Why? Because Japan only has a lot less people and was very reliant on America's consumer economy.
What's funniest, is that people point at China 2015 as the same as Japan 1990, yet everyone has been predicting a collapse in China when no one predicted the collapse in Japan.
I'm betting we'll be surprised.
Why is a slowdown in economic activity bad when coupled with a declining population?
If both decline at the same rate, GDP/capita ratio would stay the same. Pensions is an issue but how can it not be when it's a Ponzi scheme.
In theory, how can you support permanent economic growth when it outpaces technological development? Wouldn't countries eventually hit a point where they have to let the population decline when there isn't enough resources for everyone?
I want to know why it's universally considered bad to allow your population to decline.
>>141056707
It's not. The Jews, libtards and faggots that read CNN headlines think it is bad.
>>141056707
Old people.
>>141056112
Japan has an extremely conservative governmental system.
For example, the Article 9 "reintepretation" is unanimously called unconsitutional by Japanese lawyers and foreign lawyers, yet the Japanese Supreme Court will just let it happen because it never goes against the government.
Abe also has been silencing his critics and shutting down liberal newspapers.
Meanwhile, the rural districts have 5x the voting power per person in their House than Nagoya or Tokyo has.
>>141056173
I think people are simply forgetting that demographics are extremely important to an economy.
They should have enforced natalist policies in the 80's and 90's, instead of finally doing it in 2009.
>>141056271
In the November 2014 elections the DPJ (opposition) literally was so unprepared they didn't have candidates in 40/190 districts.
I honestly think the DPJ is a secretly LDP-controlled organization.
Warning
Warning
Old Men
>>141056295
>When I say collapse, I mean in ways people seem to be implying here, total meltdown of economy and society. I'm aware of the "lost decades", but economic downturns, even severe ones, can be weathered.
Oh I agree. I didn't think that though, but I should have since it's 4chan.
The 1990 Japan and 2008 American collapses were about as bad as a modern economic collapse could get. Lif sucks, but it isn't 1929.
>I suppose we're in agreement on the rest, I think abenomics hasn't really panned out, but it wasn't a complete failure. I do think that their future is fine, in one shape or another. A smaller population with slower growth, but, like you said, that's what most industrialized societies are headed for. We'll have to see if common sense prevails on accepting that outcome, or their politicians go full retard and try to force immigration anyways.
Abenomics is a mixed bag, but in my opinion it has become worse and worse solely because it has been combined with nationalistic military tendencies.
"Reinterpreting" article 9 and jacking up military spending took a lot of confidence out of rule of law, and ate up a lot of stimulus spending. He's also been shutting down media critics and using the government media budget to silence "biased media".
As long as Abe and the LDP is in power we won't see Japan go full retard and let in millions of immigrants. That's all I can hope for with Abe.
>>141056935
It's because they can barely get any and have to focus on the districts with higher than average autonomy instead.
>>141056506
Ummm.... Definitely.
You might also want to take a look at this organization he's the chairman of outside of being the PM. (They openly deny Nanking and consider the Yamato race to be superior).
>>141056541
There's definitely something wrong with Japan's (Tea Party-tier) conservative party being in power for 78 of the last 83 years.
>>141056707
Because our current capitalist system relies on this all being a ponzi scheme that grows fast enough to delay the inevitable.
Japan has too many old people, so even though GDP per capita remains the same, debt levels to pay pensions continously rise until you're insolvent.
The mean matters more than the average
I think
I got a C in stats
>>141057244
And what does that have to do with cons? The reason why they are still in power has already been explained.
>>141057156
This is poor bait.
Japanese people have to compete against prices in China, Vietnam, and India. Work can be shipped and examined electronically, so anime can be made anywhere.
>>141043623
>>141043847
>Worst Korea is getting pricey these days, now more work is going to China.
China, Vietnam, and India have done animation work for recently aired anime series and anime theatrical movies. So don't automatically say that India has substandard work because their stuff appears in the theatrical movies. The problem is how credits are displayed since a single company name can be traced to india, but at that point, no more names appear. I can understand that the japanese anime company wants to conceal that the majority of work is done by foreign nationals with japan basically doing the assembly work of all the parts made.
There was that made in china series that basically only had the director and production committee based in Japan. It was technically classed as anime even though most of the writing was done in china as well. After all, the japanese director even moved to china to work on the story and animation until it was done. So it was basically made in china, but since all the scenes were assembled in order to make the video in japan, it was technically "made in japan" from 100% foreign animation parts.
Product example: an aloe-flavored drink in a green PET bottle is labeled "made in korea" by a korean company. However, the drink contents and bottle and lid were all made in china which basically meant only the filling of the bottle was done in korea from concentrate. I only know of the example because of comments that some chinese PET plastics are contaminated (impure is cheaper and more profitable) and this bottle material was one of the suspects of using impure PET plastics.
>>141043963
>There are no Japanese ghettos and there won't be.
There are swaths of land where lots of homeless japanese have cardboard boxes covered by tarps. Doesn't meet your definition of ghetto?
>>141057336
If you're too old to work then you should be too old to receive health care.
>>141057435
>people should slave away for 45 years of their life and then get no safety net at the end of it
Are you literally a jew who hates all of mankind?
>>141057355
amazing.
>>141057153
No. It was because they were completely unorganized and didn't expect the election.
The DPJ had 190 nominees in Decemeber 2012. Their nominees didn't just vanish in between.
>Production Assistant
I'm probably wrong but I had a friend working as a production assistant for a studio and he was a glorified errand boy. It was an entry level job and he got paid near minimum wage. Must be different in Japan.
>>141057545
No. You get help from your family, mainly kids instead. You know, the way it has always worked but proper family is an "outdated and oppressive thing" now.
>>141057355
You from /cum/?
I have mine next Monday.
>>141057356
It doesn't, but I think that was the anon's point.
Abe is the chairman of the most far-right wing organization in Japan. It also is extremely influential on LDP and Komeito politicians.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippon_Kaigi
>>141057435
Wew pham
Good luck getting people to pay taxes then.
>>141042619
Holy fuck, 3DCG 'artists' make nearly as much as I do? I am in the wrong line of work clearly.
>>141054357
Good point. Reminder that if this was America, the producer would be making 7 figures per month.
>>141057665
So why do we pay taxes for "guaranteed government support in old age"?
It was the deal we made. Government is just fucking it up.
>>141057666
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippon_Kaigi
Based. I'd rather the Japanese people go extinct than be diluted by immigrants.
>>141043963
>There are no Japanese ghettos and there won't be.
Kamagasaki, Osaka
>>141057765
Yeah well the Tea Party is their equivalent yet whites in America are still getting fist fucked by globalization and infinite illegal immigrants.
You don't have to far-right wing to protect your culture and ethnic people.
>>141054782
>Why are these people treated like garbage when they're doing a lot of the work?
Prioritizing quantity of animators over quality of animators. They probably take in anyone who can operate a pencil and then pay them nothing. If you think about all the QUALITY combined with the rapid production rate of a series then it makes sense.
Really the made as it is airing model used to produce anime basically guarantees inferior 'fast food quality' product.
>>141057757
>So why do we pay taxes
You answer this yourself.
>>141057845
Are there any grass roots studios in existence or is everything mass produced now
>>141056707
Less healthy and ready work force, more old people to take care of that aren't putting anything back into the economy. This accelerates the problems that come with economic decline and recession or at best doesn't do anything to help offset it.
>>141056767
Cool we're bringing youtube comments into the thread
>>141057947
If there are they probably scamstarter, memelord tier.
>>141056587
I would argue that, since they are already spending anyways, go for broke and spend smart. Put out as much money as you need to to bribe people to have kids. Debt can be worked around. At the end of the day, a lot of this shit honestly at these scales is zero's somewhere, just paper or bits. But actually getting people to have kids, that's tangible, and that is something that can even, in the longer-term, address the debt issue.
>>141056707
It's not, and that's what I've been trying to say in one way or another. If that's the future, so be it, people will adapt.
>>141056795
>>141057666
I don't see the problem with them being far-right. If that means that they actually are sensible and don't flood the country with random ass people that can't/wont assimilate, that's a good thing.
>>141057079
He's obviously got strong view about the military and what he thinks Japan's role should be, both historically and in the future, but I don't necessarily disagree with him. I do think that he should have addressed economic issues and societal, ie having more kids, before working on other stuff he wanted to though. If keeping Abe and the LDP in power is what keeps mass immigration, or even extended immigration from happening, I think that's quite acceptable.
>>141057985
Must have been one of the few good Youtube comments then.
What do you do about the jobs most young people do, convenience store clerk/fast food, etc, when there is a decline in people being born in your country
>>141057611
Maybe the meaning is lost in translation.
